Hello and welcome. My name is Gayleen Gray, assistant vice-president and chief technology officer at McMaster University, and I'm really thrilled to be here today with Hanna Haponenko, who is joining me as our January McMaster Women in IT Changemaker. And I'm really thrilled. I was joking with Hanna earlier that she's the HH and I'm the GG, and we're here to break into a really interesting conversation about Hanna and the wonderful work she's doing both in terms of her affiliation with McMaster as a PhD student but also a fantastic endeavour that she's undertaken, Axcessiom Technologies, and we're going to get into that as well. Welcome, Hanna, and congratulations and thank you for being part of our program. Thank you so much Gayleen. I'm so honoured to be featured in the series. I hope that I can provide some,
you know, important or exciting information today, and I just want to thank you for being able to feature all of the women in the series because, as I was talking before, I feel like women are not, you know, they're-- I feel like they're a little shyer maybe than their male counterparts, maybe not always, so it's just nice being able to have a platform and just openly talk about, you know, whatever, dealing with tech or education or anything like that, so thank you so much. Oh it's my distinct pleasure, and I'm so fortunate because McMaster University has so many really talented, wonderful achievers, such as yourself, Changemakers. So Hanna I hope today you might start off by just giving us a little bit of a background on who you are and how you fit into the McMaster environment and what you're studying and then I think we both agree we really want to delve into your exciting outside of McMaster affiliated to McMaster endeavours, so, please, over to you.
Let's hear a little bit more about Hanna. Thanks, yeah, so I guess I'll give a little bit of a background. I came to McMaster in 2013 as a health science student who was originally like dead set on entering medical school, you know, four years went by, slowly started to realize that wasn't really, you know, in my-- like I just i just became a little bit disenchanted with it for a variety of reasons, as students do, right. You go to university to figure out what you don't want to do most of the time. So I ended up having a chat with my now supervisor of my PhD, Dr. Hongjin Sun, I originally just wanted to look for a summer job, a summer research assistant job, what have you, because I didn't really know what to do after my undergrad, and so he offered me a chance for me to try out the graduate program. So in the psychology neuroscience and behavioural department at McMaster, you can enter as a master's student and then if you are seen as having the potential and the ability to enter a PhD program, you can kind of just migrate into it without completing your master's, so that's what I did. I study human perception and cognition in a
simulated driving context or a simulated 3D world and right now my thesis deals with basically analyzing how people react and detect targets in this simulated world. So in the lab we have a-- well, before COVID, we would have participants come in and kind of immerse themselves in this virtual world and they would notice a bunch of, you know, objects on the screen and we would analyze their reaction times, their accuracy rates, depending on where these objects occurred in simulated space, simulated depth space, so basically my thesis kind of involves looking at how responses to locations that people have already seen are suppressed. So people are a lot slower at responding to an area in space that they've seen before. Evolutionarily, this makes sense, you know, you don't want to look in the same place twice if you're trying to run away from a predator or or trying to find something for survival. So yeah I study the inhibition of return, that's my thesis. So as I entered my second year of grad school, my PhD now,
I started to slowly kind of realize that as fun as research was in an academic setting, it can be-- to put it bluntly, bureaucratic, kind of slow, you know, for a reason, right. You're trying to find the answer to something that's so niche and you have to really think deeply about it, so definitely understand the pace there. But with that in mind, I started kind of looking into industry, specifically related to tech, you know. We use technology in the lab quite a lot, so it just seemed like a natural kind of transition. I went to a conference called Collision in Toronto
in 2019 where I met my partner of the startup I'm involved in, his name is Shanjay Kailayanathan. So when he was, I believe 15 or 16, he was driving and got into a vehicle, like a motor vehicle accident, and he became quadriplegic as a result. Three years after a lot of rehab he started driving and so the way he's able to drive is using his hands, so like his left hand would push and pull a mechanism to break or throttle gas. And his right hand
is connected to this little knob that's connected to the larger steering wheel so he can turn at a much smaller radius than you know the actual steering wheel. So he's able to drive that way but the caveat here is if he wants to turn on his turn signal, his windshield wipers, open his window, you know, turn on his A/C, his radio, he has to let go of these crucial functions to do that. This is like very difficult for him, sometimes impossible. And the Canadian policymakers are just like, that's okay, we don't need to treat disabled folk at the same standard as abled folk, so it's absurd like he got his license without being able to check all of the requirements and during his driver exam, which the, you know, the invigilator was just like, that's okay, that's fine, which is not a good thing because it's unsafe and, you know. It doesn't make sense in a world where we have so many people getting into motor vehicle accidents a day, you know, to put this person into this precarious situation. It's just unfair. So we, he and I, met at that Collision conference, at that tech conference, and he knew that I was studying human vision, human attention, I was dabbling with some computer vision a toy project at the time, and he knew I was involved in machine learning as well. So he brought me on as a
kind of like software developer for the first year. We made a minimum viable product that basically leveraged facial gestures to control the functions that I was talking to you about, so like if you smile, the machine would recognize that and the windshield wipers would turn on. If you blink with your left eye, the left turn signal would turn on; right eye, right turn signal. And obviously these facial gestures, were still developing. But these facial
gestures can be customized so like a lot of people can't blink with one of their eyes really well let's say or maybe they've had a stroke-- maybe half of their face is paralyzed so you can kind of-- the the user can customize what facial gestures to use rather than us hard-coding them. So it's been two years since my involvement. We've hired two full-time employees, over 10 volunteers and interns and Shanjay and I remain unpaid but very passionate because we are very close to finishing our prototype. So right now, we're actually reverse engineering a 2016 Dodge Caravan. As soon as we do that and connect it with our facial gesture software, we'll be able to test drive on a test track. So yeah, that's basically what's in store for us in the new year. That was a mouthful; I'm sorry. I feel like I just like-- That's great, no. Hanna, that's amazing. I mean I think it's really an interesting story on a few multiple levels, one being your early point which is, you know, you come in as a student with expectations about what you want to do and you've taken a right turn from your original plan but the humanistic side of the technology development and use that you've been tapping into really does tie back to some of those values you probably had, you know, at the core of your decision around health sciences as a starting point. And so
I think that's really amazing. And we've had some conversations with some other McMaster women in IT Changemakers around the integration and intersection of health and technology and so you're really-- you're taking that because there is a health component to this obviously as well. Yeah and I love that because-- so you mentioned that and I don't mean to bash anyone else who's-- okay let me just say it this way: I value technology in a sense where if the technology can truly help a person and increase their happiness, increase their livelihood, increase their ability to give back to the economy in a constructive way, I'm all for it. You know, there's a lot of other tech spheres which, you know, I don't, like not that I don't agree with but I just-- I like when tech can really change the planet, you know, not just kind of help someone, you know, shop easier, like which is fine, like that's great and like it's helped me. Like I use, you know, many different plugins and what have you, but yeah, it's different when you're trying to increase like the socioeconomic status of like a population which is what we try to do. We're trying to have people develop the confidence to drive on roads if they've never driven before or to drive just more seamlessly, you know. Absolutely,
yeah, and I think, you know, what you've said is really valid and we talk about it from the McMaster IT Strategic Plan perspective; we talk about something delightful technology. I think the volume went out. Okay. Yes. Yeah, we talked about in the McMaster IT Strategic Plan, we talk about delightful technologies and, you know, we're obviously-- I'm a practitioner so we deliver systems for all sorts of different reasons. I agree with you the the value is not technology for the sake of technology, it's what can it do to help us achieve whatever our mission, goal or enable us to do more with what we, you know, more-- enhance our lives and prove what we want to do. So I think your reflection is really valid and, you know, you really are creating something that has such a great opportunity to provide people with freedom and independence, which I think is extremely fantastic, and I can only imagine. So you talked a little bit about free work, which is one of the interesting things I think as a PhD student and somebody involved in your research environment, you probably spend a lot of time doing things where you feel like there's no immediate payback, so to speak, and now you're doing that as a work within a delivery model as well. Can you talk a little bit about that passion that you have
and, you know, what what is it that motivates you from a technology perspective and from a delivery perspective to stay on track with both your research and this exciting endeavour that you and Shanjay are working on. I think one of the biggest gripes I have with, you know, completing a PhD or being in academia is you create all this fantastic knowledge or you find this fantastic discovery, let's say or maybe it's, you know, it's fantastic to you or to to a niche amount of people, which is fine, and you write an article about it, it gets published, if you're really popular you'll get 2,000 reads; if you're really popular in my field anyway. Okay. And what then? Like are you actually-- can I make something out of this, that's the question that I found myself asking two years ago when I started working with Shanjay is yes, I can actually make something tangible that people can put into their cars or let's say, you know, in another realm, they can actually use this and and have their lives changed in a tangible in like a very physical way. With my PhD, I'll create a thesis and I'll, you know, my dissertation will be out there, but will I actually continue studying this very, very esoteric topic? Can I actually do something and apply something, you know, that I've learned from it? Maybe. But it's just not as-- I think the reason that I can kind of balance the two together is that I'm finding something very, you know-- I'm trying to answer a question in my PhD and I'm trying to answer a question with Axcessiom but with Axcessiom, I can actually make something, you know, physical out of it. I'm making a product. With my PhD, it's not as easy, so I think maybe the reason that I stay in both
is kind of related to, yeah, I want to make something but I also want to be able to think deeply about something, so, some, like I don't know. It's a weird balancing act. Well I can only imagine it takes up an awful lot of your time and your thinking space because you do have to stay quite focused on the research side. Yeah. What's really exciting and I think this is, you know, a piece that I like to talk to Changemakers about is the inspiring aspect of this. So there's a real-- what you're doing not only is inspiring from the Axcessiom perspective but it's also inspiring for people who are thinking, so other women who may be thinking about moving into a PhD. How do you take something that is so, to your point, niche, really deep in terms of the hypothesis or question you're trying to answer and then find a way through networking frankly, it sounds like that's actually how you found this way, to use that as a springboard into something that will have a more practical, and I don't want to, you know similar, to yourself indicate that there isn't practicalities in research because obviously the idea is to answer questions that can help to springboard innovation and outcomes.
But talk about the inspiration that you might be able to provide to other women who are thinking, like how do these things all intersect. So I think it's natural to not continue with something that you've started, let's say in school, you know. I'm doing this PhD but the thing is I can take what I've learned from my PhD and transfer it to my startup so I don't have to be studying inhibition of return for my entire life. I don't have to apply it but I've learned other
skills from my PhD, so, you know, machine learning techniques, any sort of like data analysis, being able to run an experiment from the start to the end, just being able to logically frame a study and kind of plan out a project. Those skills I've taken and applied them to Axcessiom which-- it doesn't-- we don't really study human vision. We do analyze human attention because we need to know where people are looking, how they're experiencing their driving environment and then we apply computer vision algorithms to that. So it's, yeah, I feel like women may be able to
get inspired by not pigeonholing themselves into one thing, you know. Just because you're studying something in undergrad, master's in PhD doesn't mean that you have to continue studying it. The context might be different but the skills you learn can be transferred to a new context. And I think that's probably the best kind of takeaway I have from doing both things at the same time, yeah. That's perfect. I think that's really helpful, and I agree with you. Obviously
everything that we do, you know, there's learning in almost any activity, whether it's work, study or even social interaction, we're always in learning mode. I am curious for you in terms of mentorship. Have you had any mentors who've helped you to think differently about how you've approached both your research or your study and this startup environment? Are there any individuals that have helped you to galvanize your own energy in that direction? So we were talking about John Bandler, professor emeritus. I always get that-- we were talking about John Bandler, professor emeritus; he basically has helped mentor me to give my three-minute thesis in 2019. Actually before I met Shanjay. At that time I was talking
about my PhD and then he again mentored me for the 2020 March Three-minute thesis which got cancelled because of the lockdown. And he told me something really fascinating. I told him, listen I don't think I want to talk about my PhD anymore, like I don't even know like what I'm, you know, I just had this intense kind of imposter syndrome about my PhD, and like I didn't know what to talk about. It was going to be, I don't know, nothing really new, and I told him about Axcessiom and the work I was doing there and he said, what do you like? What do you mean? Like you should definitely talk about that in your three-minute thesis because from your PhD you branched out to the startup and you were able to tie the two together. Yes, they're not completely the same but they're so similar enough that you can talk about how you've applied your PhD in a sense. So he was very helpful in helping me understand that, yeah, I can do both things at once, and I can relate them in ways that I didn't think before were were possible. I'm finding new links,
you know, between my PhD and my startup every day. And it's great. You know, my supervisor has been so supportive in me basically managing a startup, like he knows I want to go into industry. He sets my semesters up in a way where we, you know, form strict kind of plans and contingency plans in case, you know, I can't, you know, because of like coronavirus I couldn't complete like my-- culminating like PhD experiments, so he gave me like a different way to think about it. And,
you know, he knows I want to finish in time so I can enter industry. He's been super helpful. Dr. Hongjin Sun, if you're listening, you're the best. And yeah, so those two and then mentors at The Forge when we were-- our startup was, you know, involved with them several mentors at The Forge. Maria, Chris have been extremely helpful in, you know, pushing us forward. That's great, and thank you. I was going to ask you to actually name your supervisor as well because I think it's,
you know, we're so fortunate. None of us walk alone in terms of the work we do or in your case obviously both your research as well as your your outcomes with your startup. So it's great to actually name people who supported you. And I thought maybe in the last couple of minutes, Hanna, we could talk just briefly about, you know, the leadership aspect of what you're doing and how are you going to pay this forward? Have you thought about that? Obviously you're contributing to society through the work you're doing at Axcessiom, which is amazing. Can you think about your way forward as you come to the end of your PhD. I know that probably shocks you. Wow. To
think that that's coming to the end. How can you pay it forward and how can you help other students understand that the leadership elements that are so important in contributing to community? I think two two things, so I've informally peer mentored or mentored or had discussions with other individuals from my PhD program. Some of these individuals have expressed concern and, you know, a little dispassion associated with their studies. And I always just tell them, hey like just look for jobs in like industry while you're in your PhD and some of them have actually gotten jobs in that way. I've hired people to volunteer for my startup where I've taught them very important skills. Many of these people have gotten jobs because of this volunteership that I've given them. You know, it's-- we're definitely like a learning-teaching startup, so we really
focus on developing the skills of our volunteers rather than just having them like do things without guidance. So through career treks at McMaster through Anna Magnotta. I've hired people that way as well and, you know. I think that those kind of connections are the most valuable because I'm not just telling somebody to do something or to think a certain way. I'm actually teaching them
a skill that they can use to then go on to their next, you know, land on their next stone. So I think giving back by just teaching people has been kind of the highlight of me paying it forward. Great, yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think that's really exciting and obviously there's some real tangible outcomes in the near term. You talked about the Dodge Caravan that you're
outfitting right now with all of your controls. And I'm really excited to see how that manifests for you in terms of how you're then going to be able to showcase your technology developments for industry. I'm sure you're going to get a lot of interest around that as well. Does that, I mean does that drive you? Are you feeling quite excited about it? I'm scared. I won't feel good until we've sold to one person. So I'm just always kind of looking into the-- I think this is a quote by Elon Musk, like managing a startup is like looking into the abyss while chewing on glass. And like I feel that a lot because I'm just, you know, prototyping is one thing but then customer acquisition is a whole other thing. So, yeah, I mean the problems will just kind of keep rolling
forward-- not problems but challenges because I really do see them as exciting challenges. But I'm excited and scared because I want it to work and I want it to, you know, be done hopefully very soon. And I think, I don't know, I'm just excited. Oh I think you should be excited. It's a really exciting story, and I think that, you know, that kind of fear component can be a high motivator so don't discount the importance of having that, you know, kind of-- Anxiety is good. I think
it's good, like body control-- in a healthy way, yeah, like a healthy amount, yeah. Exactly. Hanna, honestly, it's just been a joy to speak to you and hear just such a short amount of time that we've had today but a really exciting story that you have to share with us in our McMaster Women in IT Changemaker series. Clearly so much more to come from you and I want to congratulate you both for being part of our series-- we're really honoured to have you here but also really thrilled to see what you're doing and how you've been able to leverage your energy and your education into something that's really going to have a huge impact on society and individuals such as Shanjay, your partner at Axcessiom. Really excited. So last word to you, last word to you. Thank you so much. I really am so honoured to be a Changemaker. I have been following the series, you know, for months and I just thought, oh my god, like I would love to be on it. So I just
had such a fabulous discussion with you, Gayleen. Thank you so much for giving me a platform again and I really hope that if anyone is watching this, they can feel free to contact me, search me up on LinkedIn, whatever, shoot me an email. I'd love to have a chat and pay it forward that way as well. That's amazing. Thank you so much, best of luck to you and we'll look forward to following your story, Hanna. Thank you so much. Cheers.
2021-02-02