Level Up Your Cue Sheets: Audio Recognition and Best Practices Webinar | April 15th 2025
Hello everyone, and welcome to the essential cue sheet webinar. It's great to have you all here. Today. We're going to dive into the critical world of cue sheets, something that we all love. Of course, we did a cue sheet webinar back in November, and it's definitely worth checking that out, and it's available on the Orfium website. So do go to www.orfium.com and check out the resources section, because
that's where you find the previous webinar. So for today's webinar, you can ask all sorts of questions. At the bottom right of your screen, you should have a button that says Q and A. If you press on that, it will open up a window, and that's where you can put in all your questions, and they should pop up on our side, and then we can answer those questions. So the webinar will be about 30 to 40 minutes where we're doing a presentation, and then after that, there will be the Q and A section, which is about 20 to 30 minutes, depending on how many questions you've got, of course, but we do hope that you've got a lot of questions. So my name is Mark vermat, and I've got Janine
Kerr here with me. It's great to have Janine here on the webinar. Janine, why don't you introduce yourself? Hey everyone. I'm Janine Kerr. I am not working at the moment. I was previously at vandal Sports Network, prior to that Fox Sports and then prior to that NBC, so I know a bunch of things about cue sheets, unfortunately, but you know, that's part of the world we live in. Great thanks, Janine, it's great to have you. Let's move on to the agenda for today. The things that we're going to discuss are
the evolving cue sheet landscape and challenges. Then we're going to do a quick recap of what we did in the November webinar. Then we're going to look at some advanced cue sheet process and techniques, and, of course, the Q and a and at the end, we've got some resources as well. Let's kick off with the evolving media landscape. So of course, cue sheets are essential in our media landscape, and we all work in the entertainment industry.
So what is happening? Well, production is is really soaring at the moment, the global AV market now is 823 billion. That's forecast for 2029 and the entire entertainment industry, which includes gaming, books, etc, is 3.4 trillion. That's right, trillion in 2028 and that is up from 2.8 trillion in 2023
so that's gone up like really massively in only a few years. So as production is soaring, you know, how do you capture some of that value as a rights owner, as a composer and a publisher? You know how you participate that because, you know, content is soaring. There's a massive amount out there. It's proliferating, but at the same time, cue sheet processes are often fragmented. It's not done very well, and it's relying heavily on manual work. So let's have a look as well at how this then works in the media industry. Because we see in the media industry that similarly, revenues are growing very, very rapidly. We're talking about 230, 1 billion in 2027, and
that's only two years away, and a compound annual growth of 10.6 and when we talk about media here, we specifically talk about broadcast media. And in broadcast media, a lot of the new revenue is not coming from traditional television. It's really coming from digital media. And digital media is really scattered around. And anybody who's working in music knows how difficult it is to generate income from digital media. So how do we get some audio visual income as a music
rights owner from audio visual media? Well, the answer is really cue sheets, because cue sheets are a paycheck. They really help us collect income as a rights owner from media productions. So that's we're going to talk about today, cue sheets, and also a little bit on how audio recognition helps those cue sheets. So what is the life cycle of a cue sheet? It all starts with the creation of the header. So the header is effectively telling us what program we need a cue sheet for. And then there's a whole collaborative process during which cue sheets are being created that could involve composers. It could be involving production people, anybody from
music supervisors to music editors, production assistants, but also people at a network or studio. All of these people feed into the cue sheet creation process. And at the end of the day, when we have an approved cue sheet, that cue sheet gets delivered to a pro or a CMO. So pros could be ASCAP BMI in the US, could be PRs in the UK, but don't forget that we also deal with neighboring rights societies, so those are societies that represent artists and record labels, and we have those outside of the US. So in Germany, for instance, GVL, in
the UK, it's ppl, those representatives of artists and record. Enables also use cue sheets to pay out their rights owners. Finally, cue sheets are being shared with publishers. Publishers use those cue sheets to do registrations with pros, so that the works and the queues are accurately registered. But
they also carry out a level of analysis and forecasting of royalties. And of course, there's a lot of royalty calculation going on with the pros, because the pros use those cue sheets to calculate what the royalties are that they should be paying writers and publishers, and that is really the value chain in a cue sheet. So let's recap some of the highlights of the previous webinar. Um, what is a cue sheet? So let's start with that question, because let's make sure we're all on the same page. A cue sheet is a document that lists all the music used in Film TV or video games or any other audio visual production. So it could even be like a podcast. Performing rights organizations use those cue sheets to track music usage in films and TV and pay out the rights owners. Now,
a lot of people, when they think about a cue sheet, think about a paper document or maybe a PDF or an Excel spreadsheet that lists all the music in a film and TV show. And to some extent, that is still true, but more and more cue sheets are managed in sophisticated systems where the data is held in as structured data in databases, and increasingly, cue sheets are created using audio recognition technology as well. So what do we find in a cue sheet? So Janine, can you run us through what typically is available in a cue sheet? What sort of data? Well, we have to have the song title, the composers, the publishers, the pros, and for those not in the US, the label, artist, etc, information helps for the neighboring rights. When I say, not in the US, not for the US, only cue sheets. And where I previously worked was for us only. So hence my confusion with the artists, no, but you should put them in, because eventually that will, I think will eventually be worldwide, recognized, you know, so you also have to put in different things, like if it's a background instrumental versus a background vocal, an opening theme, a closing theme, or a visual vocal. And by visual vocal, I mean someone's actually
performing a song, either just a capella or just just doing with their band or whatever. And sorry, the chat keeps popping up. Hi Michelle, anyway, so yes, that's sort of very important, because the way that the pros will pay the composer and the publishers is based on whether it's a instrumental, you know, background vocal, whatever opening theme is obviously going to get paid higher than a background instrumental during the the show and when it's used exactly like the start and stop. And this is the important part, like, you know, hence why sound mouse is awesome, because you can literally have it to the second of how it was used, like if it started, you know, at 0.3 minutes in the production, and It ran for 30 seconds or 32 seconds or 30 seconds, and all of that is calculated by the pros and how much they pay the actual composer and their publisher. So hopefully that makes sense, right? Yeah, it does. It does. Let's move on to the reason why cue
sheets are actually important. And also, I do want to remind you, if you've got any questions, please don't forget to put them in the Q amp a section. So there's a Q amp a button at the bottom of your screen. If you click on that, it
opens up a window and you can post questions in there. So why are cue sheets important? Well, they're very important because they're really relevant in terms of fair compensation. And, you know, a cue sheet is really a paycheck. And I think it's really important to put it out there. When you think about a
cue sheet, think about it as a paycheck. You know, this is how the composer and the publisher receives their income. And if you're a studio or producer and you're hiring a composer, that composer will depend for his income on, you know, a cue sheet, because that cue sheet is his paycheck. So if you're not filing a cue sheet, the composer cannot do work for you because it's going to be a lot. He's not making any money from the work that he's doing. So it's really important to remember that that
the composer. And the publishers receive money through the cue sheet. And if you don't file a cue sheet, you know it's going to be more expensive when you're hiring a composer, because, you know, they are receiving income from those cue sheets. Another thing is legal compliance. And you know, again, from a studio perspective, it's really quite important to consider that, you know, you don't want to deal with infringements and legal issues. So acution is a legal document. It describes what
music is used in the program, and it will help you remain secure in that sense. So then there's a, you know, just the industry sustainability, you know, a program, the way I look at it is a program is a container of all sorts of other copyrights that are included in a program. And, you know, it could be images, could be other things, but it's also music. You know, you cannot imagine an audio visual production without a piece of music. So that piece of music is really core to the experience. And you know, as an industry, you know, that's an
integrated, comprehensive way of looking at it. So therefore the music cushion is an essential part of that because it describes what music went into that audio visual experience. And then finally, you know, efficient, efficient and efficient and transparent reporting, the cue sheet, of course, very clearly, sets out what sort of music is used in a production, and therefore very important. So Janine, what would you say is really important from a broadcaster's perspective, when using a cue sheet, why is the cue sheet important for a broadcaster? Well, first of all, the broadcasters, like from TV broadcast point of view, have a pro agreement with each of the pros, and it states in that agreement about cue sheets and that they have to be delivered within a time frame, and all of that kind of thing. So legally, if you're not submitting these
cue sheets in this timely fashion, you are then, you know, open to any sort of claims from the pros. So that's very important. Also your deals with, if it's a commercial song or a library, or whatever it is, the deal with the publisher, whoever the publisher is, you know, it, it states that that you have to do the cue sheets. And so that's part of that agreement. I always look at cue sheets when I'm like, thinking about it is like, you know, my job is to do this, or part of the cue sheet team or whatever, and that's my job. I get paid to do that job. So
therefore, the composer and the publishers, they've done their job by, like, actually making this song for you to use. And you're you are highlighting you. You're highlighting their work in your work. So therefore they need to get paid. So you just can't use a song without paying the synchronization fee, you know. So you can actually put your their song to your picture,
and then you need the broadcast performance, which is what the cue sheet covers. So it's the most important thing for me. And I understand when you say it's a paycheck. Yes, it is, and it's probably a shorter and clearer way of saying it, but I it really is the paycheck, and these people work damn hard to create music, and they come up with this awesome piece of music, and it's chosen. It's your responsibility to make sure they're paid correctly, because they've got bills like all of us. So that's where I stand on that.
And would you say that the approach to handling cue sheets within broadcaster studios changed over the years? And is it different from how people handled it previously? Oh, hell yeah. So it used to be always just manual cue sheets, and once you've got manual cue sheets, you got human error involved. Also back in the day, there were some editors who would just phone it in, and they were wrong. It was simple as that. And as you know, being either the head of the music department or within the music department, it was up to me, in my job to check and you you just can't check everything depending on where you work, right? And whereas, with sound mouse, now I don't have to worry about that. It's correct. Whereas, before,
you know, when I was at, say, at NBC, I would have the promo cue sheets, and I'd be like, listening for the music, because I had obviously pitched the music, and then had the music in there, and then making sure that what was on the cue sheet was filled out correctly. And then someone on my team would go through it wasn't just. Many, of course, I would have thank God, because there was just way too many. But I had like three QC
coordinators back in the day at NBC doing just the promos. So that was three people for promos, whereas at my most recent job, there were, I think, five people all together, but three full time, you know, doing cue sheets, day in, day out, day out. And this is with Soundmouse. So could you imagine doing it all live? You know, there's three to 5000 games a year. I just can't see people doing that. Yeah? It's simply the scale of it. Yeah. Sense. So let's look at that cue sheet workflow so we get a bit of a better idea of how that works. So cue sheet workflow typically starts with the header creation. And the header is created by a production company,
a studio or broadcaster. And things can go wrong with that header creation as well, because, you know, the header is really all about what is the program? What is the information about the program? You can have different headers for different versions of the program, domestic version, international version, etc, and they may all have different music. So keeping the right information in the header is really, really crucial. Now, then we go through that collaboration process that we talked about earlier, where the cue sheet is filled out, then we've got a quality control process where we're fact checking the data and approving the data, and at that point, the data is delivered to the pros. Now in Europe, it's typically
the broadcaster that is delivering the data, and they deliver it both to the pros and the MLC. So those are the neighboring rights societies, and in the US, the QCS are typically delivered by the production companies in the studios or where it's a broadcaster. It's typically a broadcaster that creates their own programming, and they deliver it to the likes of ASCA, BMI, CZ and GMR now. Then
finally, the QC is, of course, shared with the publishers, and the publishers carry out a really important role in this process, because they do registrations of the cue sheets, and those registrations are necessary to make sure that Incan can can go through. But they also track the usage of music and make sure that the rights owners get paid. So looking at that process and looking at the massive proliferation you were talking earlier about, you know, how you've gone from having three people just doing promos to five people effectively working across an entire network with many, many different shows. So what would you say is sort of a key strategy in maintaining that, you know, how do you stay on top of all that work? Because there's a lot of stuff going on as a broadcaster, there's a lot of priorities. How do you how do
you do that? Well, with the head of creation, that's the very important part. And as a broadcast network, you should have a programming department so that information should be fed from the programming department through to the music department. And there are various other ways that it happens at other studios, I'm sure, but that's the main thing to find out. You know, if the cue sheet like what what it's called when it aired, what it was called, is the most important thing, because that can change, like, as you said, the different versions, or they just put it in as a place folder, and then they call it something else. So you've got to be sort of on top of that. Then you know, you can do the audio
recognition, which is great. So all of the music that you know is going to be used is put into the system so that that fills it incorrectly. Then the quality control and fact checking comes to the music department. So there's, you know. The good news is there's no more editors involved in all of that, because Can we trust them? I'm just saying. And so what we do is go
through and, like what I said before, about, you know, changing things, because it semas automatically goes to background instrumentals. So we go through and, you know, do a double check, and you never know, what might, you know, pop up and they shouldn't have used, and maybe it was put in. And then we work out what the problem was, and then, once it's all clear and correct, you know, you just push a button and it's approved, and then sound mouse does its thing, and it goes to the pros. And we also we they, at my last job, they will take all of the cue sheets for the libraries and send them to the libraries on a Monday, just so that they know what has gone to the pros and the reason. Um, I have always done it that way.
Was because working in TV, it's I've always getting these calls from people saying it never showed up on my you know statement from ASCAP BMI and CSAC. So now I cut out the middleman, and rather than having to research everything you know time by time, I just have them get the cue sheets so they know they've gone in. So then they can argue with the pro directly, and I don't have to get involved. And so they can share whatever they want with those cue sheets, because I really don't care. Once I've done it, submitted it, it's
correct, I'm good, and we're on to the next one. Good, excellent. So let's look at those, some of those advanced techniques that you're using Janine, so we can sort of get a bit of a better understanding. So let's talk about the accurate information that we put in work titles and writer information.
So that information, work, title, writer information, is used by the pros to match cues in a cue sheet against a work that they have in their database. And that's really pretty fundamental in the whole process. The cue sheet contains cues. The cue is, of course, describing what music was used, and the pros have in their database registered works. So matching those two things together means that the Pro can identify who the rights owner is in their database and then attach a payment, a royalty to that use in a cue sheet, and then somebody can get paid based on that so that's why it's important to include all the relevant writers and composers, and of course, accuracy of that data is really crucial.
Similarly, it's very essential to put in publishing details. Now, interestingly, not in all countries, publisher information is really mandatory. It's not necessarily a requirement for reporting in a cue sheet, but it's commonly done. And actually it's quite important, especially in a number of countries where a work is registered by the collecting society based on the information in a cue sheet. So this is where there's no pre existing work in the society's database. The society is actually creating a new work from the cue sheet, and that's why it's really essential to put the correct information from the publisher in the cue sheet as well, because this forms the basis on which unregistered works are being paid out. And of
course, you need to make sure that the listed entities are accurate so they receive accurate payment. So Janine, in your experience, you were talking about audio recognition earlier? Has that fundamentally changed in any way? The way writer information and publishing information is added to a cue sheet? How is that different in audio recognition compared to manual data entry? Well, we know it's correct basically, because once it's in there, it's in there. So whether it's the library is giving the cue sheet and the audio to sound mouse, or we are putting in new songs, as the libraries are all connected with sound mouse, so they put their music in and and it recognizes the audio, and it's easy with songs. As a music supervisor, I often worked with songs that hadn't even been registered and might not have even been released or about to be released, those kind of things. So when I was clearing the song, or someone in the
department would be clearing that the song for me, they would make sure that they got all of the cue sheet information as part of the clearance process. Then that information as well as the audio, we would put in to sound mouse so we know it's correct. It might be the first time that publisher is even aware of it, depending on the song. You know, by the time they
get the cue sheet, it should have all been registered correct, but if not, sometimes that's the way they're seeing it. And so then it's up to the publisher to actually track back and actually work out what they've got. And, you know, a lot of songs today may or may not have everything correct, so then it may have to be corrected later on. It's very, you know, very few and far between. But usually it's worked out before, but sometimes it will happen afterwards, and then it's up to the publishers to do that. So if the publisher has the works in their system, it's
a lot easier, but you know that will trigger their internal department when I'm saying no, you actually have X amount of this song that trigger. Then the publisher to go to their writer and say, What's this? You need to deliver it? And so on. So we all sort of in it together as such, you know? Yeah, in a sense, it's sort of full circle. So in a way, the
publisher is using the cue sheet to check the accuracy of their data, and in some cases, changes some of their data in the registration process. That's basically what you're saying, right? Yeah, usually for us, in the US, we won't put it in the queue sheet until it's confirmed, and we usually won't air anything unless it's fully confirmed, or it might be pending splits, and then we won't be able to submit that cue sheet until it's resolved. And those pending splits is that in the context of commission musics, like score music that was created, this would be for commercial song, yeah, it would be just a pending splits. And
that's sort of just a placeholder for us as a broadcaster. We know we've got all the approvals and everyone's on board, but it's pending splits. We don't do it very often, but, you know, it should be worked out, you know, within a couple of weeks after the broadcast. Now, does that create issues on your licensing as well when you're carrying out a licensing? You know, for like, a pending split, you know, because at that point it's not clear yet how you license the song. Is that right? Or can you still license the
song? I can still license the song as long as the publishers or approve and say yeah, they're okay with pending splits. But some publishers might just say no, and then I'm like, Well, you guys better work it out. My deadline is Thursday, go and have at it, you know. And then you've got the band who, you know, excited to do it. And then you've also got, like, the
manager who is pissed because the publishers haven't got their act together, so to speak. And then they're like, there's a lot of yelling and phone calls. And I sit back and wait, and then then they all go, magically, oh, here are the splits. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. And off we go. So yeah, so you
don't really need a plan B. It's not like you've got a two a second version of the program with an alternative queue in there. Um, well, I've been doing live sports, so mostly, so, yeah, I'll say whatever my deadline is, and I'll always have a backup plan. There's no two way about that, because I'm not going to get burnt, you know, I'll have a plan B and Plan C in my head, and it's just a matter of, you know, getting the paperwork done and turned around. So it's not a big deal for me anyway. And I never want my people to have, you know, sort of any temp love as such. So you gotta have a B or C, and
who comes in quickest and cheapest is usually the winner. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. That's really good. Let's move on to the durations in a Q sheet, because the durations are, of course, really important as well, because the payros pay out based on durations. So that's why it's so essential in all of this. Every second is effectively representing a monetary value. So it's really important to keep that in mind.
So when you think about a cue sheet, and you think about that one or two seconds in a cue sheet, don't think about seconds think about money, because that's really what it means. Every second of music means a little bit of money that goes to the rights owners. Then also avoid inaccurate grounding. Now the great thing with recognition technology is that it will automatically calculate that duration for you, so there's really nothing to do. And like Janine said earlier, there's automatically a start and an end time available. So it's very
easy to look that up in the program. Most audio recognition cue sheets actually have playback functionality as well. So you can look at the program in the context of the cue sheet. It's quite a different experience from that paper cue sheet that some people may be used to. It's really not like that anymore. So then the music most
helpful part of of that is actually having that because when someone something gets in there, and you don't know why, and that you haven't approved it, and you've got this clip and go, What the hell did you do here? And then there's an argument, and then there's a reason, and then there's, you know, begging for forgiveness from publishers and labels, etc. And then, you know, working out a fee after the fact, and they're, you know, people editors who get wrapped over the knuckles and yelled at and so on. So then music usage so that's an interesting one, and I think it was a question about it earlier as well that I saw popping up. So you know, it's really important music usages to clarify that, at least in some countries, it is. And when we
talk about music usages, we talk. About the context in which the music was used in the program. So it could be a background, could be featured, could be visual, vocal, visual source, those sort of things. You've probably seen them on cue sheets, if you're familiar with cue sheets. So in the US, that's really important. Outside the US, it's not really important now. Ginny, why is the usage important in a cue sheet?
It will just change the way it's paid out to the publisher and the composer, and you want to make sure that they're being paid correctly. Well, for most of the pros in the US, there's one pro who shall remain nameless, but it starts with a and they'll just do whatever they want, but that's another situation we have in this country. But, yeah, they're the people who really need sound mouse, let me tell you.
So then in terms of the split information, which is the next thing on the list, I think you already talked about it. Janine, quite concisely. So it's really crucial for handling effectively how the rights are effectively owned by the various publishers. Now, for some works that are synced into a program, the splits are, of course, coming from the publishers, and the example that you just gave is very good. In other cases, the split information is automatically derived for score music, so and a lot of broadcasters in Studio will own some of that music as well, so they actually know what the splits are. But split information is very important,
and of course, there's also some tolerance, especially where you're dealing with a lot of different rights owners, so a lot of pros maintain a level of tolerance that it doesn't necessarily need to add up to 100% now, then there's a really fun quirk in us cue sheets that I'm sure those of you who've seen a lot of cue sheets have come across, that the shares in some cue sheets add up to 100% so 50% for the publisher, 50% for the composer, and in other cases, they add up to 200% 100% for the composer, 200% for the publisher. Well, it's all the same. You know, the pie doesn't get twice as big all of a sudden. The pie is the same. It's just the way it's calculated. So don't get too distracted by 200 or 100 it
really all amounts to the same. But if you are using 200% in a cue sheet, stick with the 200 and do that consistently across the board. And if you are using 100% in your cue sheets, stick to that. It doesn't really matter. Just choose one and stick with it. And in the Sama system, we actually resolve that in the
back end, and we report the right shares to the right pros, but just be consistent. So then, in terms of the non musical elements, so we've got a number of types of audio that can actually be synced into a program. It's not just music that gets synced in there's other elements, sound design, sound effects and Foley. And for those of you who don't know what Foley is, Jack Foley was the creator, the sound engineer that actually created this technology whereby he recorded sort of sounds just by slapping on things, closing doors in the studio, back in the day when the talkies first came around, so when audios First added to movies, and Jack Foley was the inventor of that, and that's why it's called Foley today. Now we've got all these sort of sounds that are being added. So Janine, in terms of music reporting, music, of course, gets paid out. Sound effects typically doesn't get paid out.
And sound design is sort of in the middle. What, exactly? How do I tell the difference between a sound effect and a piece of music and sound design? What is what? Well, from broadcasters, if you've got a sound design, a sound effect that has been custom made for you, and you have given the composing rights as such, over to the composer, then you should just report it as usual, because it's been cleared or composed that way in a part of the writer agreement, some libraries have sound design and in there, and that's how it's done, and some don't, then you may have a sound effects or a sound design deal with a company, and sometimes the music department isn't told about it, and then you find out, and you're like, Oh, thanks for letting me know. But that usually all that pro business has been worked out. It's it's just a check that they pay, and it might be in the marketing department or wherever, and they have done this pay to check. They've got all of this sound design stuff. That they can use, and they don't have to report it because they've done a pro brought buyout. Now that's
assuming that the person who bought the sound effects and the sound design actually knows what they're buying. And this is where I have seen companies getting themselves into trouble before, because they'll sign a deal and then not even know what they're signing. So if, as a music department, or the head of the music department, I used to kind of get into that with various different departments, or I need to know what it is so I can know what our rights are and are not those kind of things, it should all go through your music department. But whether or not that happens depends on the company. But you
just got to be very careful with that, because if something goes wrong, it'll be the music department's fault. So so you would effectively would be correct to say that you need to sort of enter into a sync license for sound effects, sound design and music, that's the same across the board, because you're using that and, you know, you just need to do, you know, a sync license, or whatever, whatever you would want to call it in the context of a sound effect, effectively the same as a sync, but then the performance would be different. So it's really the music that needs to be included in the cue sheet, but the sound effect doesn't. Is that sort of fair to say, yes, as long as that sound effect doesn't have a composer attached to it, or they the deal didn't include a pro buyout. So, you know, sometimes, like for instance, at my previous job, we had the theme song that has, you know, I had that written, and I'm, you know, executive produced, blah, blah, blah, all of that, put it together. Then what we did is we would take
out, take the stems, and then somebody else, a company for us, would make some sound design out of it, and then we would have to put that into sound now so it'd be recognized, because it was still being paid for. The publisher, as us, we would get money back, and as the broad the people who own it and the composer will get their income from the cue sheet. So you have to be very careful when you're doing the deal, and you have to work with your graphics department, because graphics will, you know, have this done, but it would go into, you know, like the opening of a program or or in and out to break a graphic going across the screen. So you just have to make sure that the
music department is aware of what is being used where, and that's just education in your company. Really, you've got to have someone who's out there beating the bushes and saying, we need to know this because of this reason, and we need to we can help you, obviously, get to where you want to be, but, you know, there has to be that one sort of department, or the department head that knows where, who's doing what and where. And it can be a bit tricky, depending on the company you work for, you know, yeah, so, but that's actually a really interesting example, where you have original score music, and then sound design is made from that score music. That's, yeah, that's a really interesting example. Okay, let's, before we go to some audio recognition, let's draw this to conclusion. Prioritize overall quality, really. That is what this is all about. So we really need to
strive for accuracy optimized data management and internal workflows for efficiency and high quality cue sheets lead to faster processing and fewer payment issues. Now, I think I skipped over a slide, didn't I? Mel, maybe you want to go back. Sort of I was one step ahead getting very excited about this audio recognition. Can you go back a slide or yeah, there we go. So total music duration. Let's quickly go through these, because I do think that these are actually quite relevant elements. So the first bit is the total music duration and the
total program duration. So there's an issue there, potentially. Let's say you've got a 40 minute show, but you've got a lot of overlaps in music, and you end up with 45 minutes of music. So you overshoot with five minutes. There's five
minutes more in the in the music duration than the program duration. Now, audio recognition tends to solve that automatically. It automatically sort of cuts it. So in an audio recognition Cush, you would never have more music than program duration, but you can have it in a manual cue sheet.
Now, is that? Is that an issue Janine, and to what extent do we need to be worried about that? Well, it's not been an issue for me, because I will always, have always said, whether it's manual or with audio recognition, it's it's got to be. Yes, and if it's more, then I need to look at it and and work out why and who did what and how that has come to be. And then the editor and I will go through it, or the editor and somebody in the music department will go through it and work out what the hell went wrong. So
basically, in reality is you cannot have a cue sheet where the music duration is longer than the program duration. It's just, yeah. It doesn't make any sense to anybody anywhere. So the pros are not going to be happy if they get something like that. I don't I think it'll be knocked back from the pros. But like I said, I
never let it get that far, because it just it seems like an important thing to me to make sure that something hasn't happened. And, you know, maybe it's a piece of music on top of another piece of music, but that deal has to be sorted out before anyway. And if it's, you know, some audio guy who's decided to, you know, play remixer and and blend two together without permission, then that's a whole other can of worms that he won't want that call from me, and it's usually a man, okay, let's look at those submission deadlines. Really key to keep those submission deadline. So this is when you're submitting your cue sheets to the pros and the CMOS. Typically,
you know, try to do it as soon as possible after an air date. Most people do 28 days. That's really a sensible thing to do, but definitely don't overshoot by three months. So do make sure that once those cue sheets are done, that they get delivered. Okay, let's look at some audio recognition before we go to the QA you know, there's a there's a few questions here, so I definitely want to make sure that we get through those QAs.
So differences in practices in terms of manual QC Creation versus audio recognition, cue sheet, so on the left hand side, we see manual cue sheets. What we see with manual cue sheets is that typically a cue sheet is initiated by a broadcaster or studio. From there it is issued to a producer. And that could be, literally anyone in a production process. Could be another production company. It could be a production assistant. Could be music supervisor, music editor. There's a whole bunch of
people that get involved in that process, and often in many cue sheets, there are multiple people that will work on that same cue sheets, even composers and production libraries will contribute to the cue sheet. So in that sense, it's a proper CO production where a lot of people are working together to get the data in the cue sheet. Once the cue sheet is complete, it gets submitted back to the broadcast or the studio, and they have the ability to look at it and, in some cases, reject it. And that was the example that Janine just gave. If the program duration is
shorter than the music duration, she kicks it back to the editor and has a conversation with them before the cue sheet is approved. And then once the cue sheet is approved, it goes off to the Pro and the CMO, and they use that cue sheet as the paycheck to pay out the rights owners. So that's the involved process that we have on the manual side. There's nothing wrong with that process, and that is definitely a process that we support on the Samoa side, and that some of our clients use for their productions. A lot of feature films are done this way. So if you're watching the next next Hollywood blockbuster, it's very likely that the cue sheet has followed this sort of workflow.
But audio recognition is a great solution as well for all sorts of types of content, but we see it's used quite a bit in sports, news, promos, trailers, entertainment type shows, and that's where audio recognition really shines. And one of the reasons why it shines is because it's so straightforward. It really starts with a broadcast or studio delivering an audio visual asset, and then that audio visual asset is run through a recognition process. And at that point, the review becomes optional. It really depends on how much review you want to do. It can be approved automatically and it can be reported automatically. So it's really very, very quick. And
then there's, of course, models that sit in between. We've got customers that use audio recognition inside their workflow, and it's inserted by a producer or by a production company or by a studio, but there's still a level of manual review involved as well. So that's just to give you an idea of the various options. It's not just one or two. It's just not just manual and audio recognition. There's many versions in between here as well. It's really to optimize the workflow of whatever a broadcaster's need is. So let's
bring it to the Q and A section. I'm just going to read some questions out here, Janine, and I think I'm going to firing them your way. So the first one, I'm working on an indie feature where the director wrote, recorded their own song and put it in a film. The character in this scene is actually singing along to it as well on the radio. So it's on the radio, which means it's a visual vocal, I think. But you can probably answer that question better than I can. The director doesn't have
a pro or publisher, or in this case, what should they put into the cue sheet? Since they don't. Have a pro or publishing information for their song, well, that whoever's the producer of the film should do an agreement with the director and basically saying that they're going to do this work for hire as such, whether it's gratis or there's $1 amount, it doesn't matter. And if they don't have a pro then the they should do a performance buyout in that agreement. And therefore, if the pro buyout has happened, you won't have to put it in the cue sheet. Or you can put in the
information and just put, oh, God, what was it? Or you can put a pro buyout or something, so that when the Q sheet goes through, people will realize that they won't have to pay anyone. But if you need that in there, just as a placeholder, so for if you're using that for internal reasons or whatever, or you don't have to put it in there. Or, you know, maybe that person, the composer, actually wants to get something for it, some back end. Then they need to register quickly with the Pro and and do it that way. And then they can register the song and go through the usual.
Okay, so got a couple questions here. Does the cue sheet include the ISRC? Is there an international unique ID, ID for cue sheet per production, like the ISRC? So there's two questions. One is, is there an ISRC and a Q sheet? And then, is there an identifier that is similar to the ISRC for productions? Do you want to take the first question? Sure. Well, usually No, for anything that I've worked on with television, but if it's a promo and it's there's an isci code, then I'll put the isci code in, but yeah, in the US, I haven't Yeah, and I think that's one of the big differences between cue sheets in the US and Europe, where we see in Europe that there are a lot of cue sheets with ISRC codes. Cue sheets typically do
have that for commercially released music and even for production library music. Nowadays, it's pretty common to find an ISRC code also because some reporting needs to be done to European neighboring rights societies, they will make it mandatory, so a European broadcaster would find that in their validation so within the Samas system, we've got a validation schema, and that validation schema will identify that something You know needs an ISRC code, and that validation states actually catch up with the rest of the world. Things like that will be included, but they they're just not there yet because they're very slow. And you know, it's done a certain way in the US, and you know how the US is just, yeah, no. I think one of the reasons for that is, is that the neighbor, the equivalent of a neighboring rights society for film and TV, especially linear television, doesn't exist. So
there's not really a need for it. But, you know, like, I think studios and broadcasters need to realize that there's money to be made outside of the US. So specifically where, you know, a studio controls some of the music going into a program. You
actually want to register that, and you want to make sure that you collect on that, because there is, there is revenue to be made. That validation schema, by the way, I see another question popping up here, that the music duration versus program duration is always an issue for pros. Samos doesn't solve this problem. Actually, there is a setting within Sam house where you can disallow that by default. It's allowed within the Samos system, but you have a setting to disallow it, and you can either completely ban it from happening, in which case the QC cannot be submitted, or it's possible to sort of give a warning. So if you would like to have that in the system, do reach out to the client accounts team, because they can set that up for you. Here's another question, how do you detect
visual music so very carefully, right? I can do the first bit from a recognition perspective. The answer is pretty straightforward. You don't you know, it's audio recognition. So usage types like background, instrumental, background, vocal or visual vocal, it's not detected from a recognition perspective. So this is where the sort of second element is
coming, and Janine, this is where sort of workflow arrives. Thank God for the human touch. So what happens is, you may know about it, well, you should know about it previously, and you've cleared the song, and therefore you've let the department know that this will come up at some point, or as someone's going through the. You sheep, and they're they're seeing things, or they're looking at the clip, which sound mouse has the footage, like Mark mentioned before, it's really good, because then you can literally see it and go, okay, and then say what happened here? And that's when that phone call happens. But you know, hopefully your producers have actually come to the music department first, because, as we all know, in any sort of television production, film or what have you, that has to be cleared before should be clear before you shoot it, because you then might be stuck with it and you can't get the song in during live things happen, and it's happened to me many a time where you know, somebody's interviewed a player, and the player might burst into We are the champions, or something like that, And then it's a quick call to Hollywood Records, well, publishing, Disney publishing, and say, hey, look what they've done help. And then hopefully they're nice and
they'll treat you well. But it happens, but it's, you know, just, thank God the footage is there, because otherwise in the manual days, that's why you had to do live queuing, where somebody in the music department sits there with a stopwatch and watches it all times the music and all of that kind of stuff. So very time consuming. If you've got a three hour game and you're just waiting for something to happen, you know? Wow. Yeah, that's, that's quite labor intensive. Yeah, you can say that there's a question. If there's no publisher info always
required. How do the publishers get paid? Writers often have different publishers from song to song, and I think that's especially true where writers write music specifically for a TV show like score music, you know, like a writer will go from one show to the other, and they get their music published with different publishers. So how does that work when publisher is not always required, that I have always put the publisher in because for me, the publishing is always required. I don't know if that's a US thing or me thing, but that's how I was taught. And I would never put it in, never leave out the publisher. Yeah, I would say this is actually the reason why you always want to put the publisher in to make sure that no mistakes are being made. But you have scenarios where publishers are not
mandatory. You know, in some cases, societies do not take registrations from the cue sheet. So, you know that happens outside the US. So in those cases, the society requires a pre existing registration. If there's no registration of the work done by the publisher, the society wouldn't pay out. So, so
that's a scenario, why, where a publisher would not be mandatory, because the society is entirely relying on their own data, and they're only matching, for instance, on composer name and title. But I would say, and I agree with Janine, especially in the US, it's really essential to put the publisher in all the time, because works do get registered from the cue sheet. Yeah, the work, you know, like, will only exist in the society's database because the society creates it from the cue sheet. And if there's no publisher, how's the society to know who to pay out? So I would say, always make sure that the publisher is in there. So then I'm just looking at the scenario here. So how
will the audio recognition react to live music in the background, for instance, from a scene or theater performance, or in your case, Janine, there's a lot of crowd noise and there's a lot of ACDC and stuff playing in the background. Players get on the field, how does the audio recognition technology perform in those cases? And what is it that, you know it should do? Okay, so the way it the way it happens in live sports. So you're in the stadium and they might be playing something in the background, it's not featured, and it better not be featured, otherwise, then you have to actually clear it. So we there's a little button, thank God in sound mouse, it says turn off. You know that that crowd noise so that it doesn't show up, and the difference between the background noise versus what's happening in the truck. So the truck, I say, but it's like the production studio that's at a sporting event is that the music is coming through that truck, the audio is coming through that the other live background, crowd noise, music, whatever. But is not coming through the truck. It's just
being captured as in the background. So that's the way I differentiate it. But of course, I would always say to the editors and what have you, don't focus in on that. If something is happening in the crowd and they're chanting a soul together, or whatever. Don't focus it. Don't put that on screen as your focus, because then you're featuring it, and it is coming through the truck that way, kind of, you know, it's still crowd noise, but you are making it like the focus and making it a feature. So you're liable to pay or get a claim,
you know, and nobody wants a claim these days, because when those claims come in, they're not cheap. Yeah, I skipped over a question earlier. There was a question about ISRC, but there was actually second part to that question. So that's now, that was whether there's an identifier in relation to programs. Now I can probably answer that very quickly. There are, there are two types of identifiers for a program which is similar to an ISRC for recording, or an ISBN for a book that exists for audio visual programs as well. It's called is a n i San. That's the European
one. But there's one in the US as well, which is called either E, I, D, R. You can look them up. Both online. They've got websites. The either one is much more focused on the supply chain, but it is used by pros as well, and the I send is more used in a rights management context. Both are really important and crucial identifiers in AV content, but they're typically not used very consistently across the industry, also, because there are different levels. So both
ITER and I send great identifiers, and it would be great if they would be adopted in, you know, across many more organizations. But unfortunately, that's not the case yet. Hopefully that will improve in the future. We're going to run out of time, and I see that there's still a number of questions here that we haven't come to. What we're going to do is we're going to answer those questions. So if you've attended the webinar, we will make sure you get those questions. I'm not, don't quite remember how we did that last
time. Mel, but I think we put something together on a piece of paper that we send around and of course, so you can pick it up there. You can also watch this webinar again. It will be available, and that brings us to the end of this webinar. I had a great time. Janine, thank you so much for joining. I think it was really insightful and it was really good to hear. You know how you deal with cue sheets, some of the processes that you're using and your just wealth of experience across just general entertainment, but also sports in particular. It's really great
to hear some of those insights. So that's it for me, the final person I would like to thank is Melanie. She's put all of this together. She put the presentation together. She
brought Janine and me together for this webinar, and she's done a great job, as always. Thanks everyone. We look forward to welcoming you in the future for our next webinar. Thanks Mark and Melanie, and appreciate everyone coming. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
2025-04-28 05:25
