Hi welcome to Restrocast today my guest on the Pod is Leon Dean CTO at Dave's Hot Chicken Leon is someone who started at the bottom at as the POS guy and Rose up to become the chief technology officer of one of the fastest growing chains in the world right now as one of the early super Geeks to somebody who talks about driving his Fiat down the canyon when he wants to clear his head someone who in middle of his career went on to do MBA outside of America just to you know not only learn but to make sure that he gets a view of the world that is outside of his comfort zone Leon's Journey was really really interesting and worth learning from do watch welcome to restro cast [Music] Leon welcome to restr cast thank you glad to be here thank you for agreeing to do this um I want to start from where it all started tell me take me through your early years and you know how come technology and that to restaurant technology back in early '90s when I was looking at at your you know your cograph I was like wow you were doing Tech in FNB when people were not doing Tech in the world in general so well how did it all start that's right so we're going to go even before I was old enough to work um so during my teenage years um I I had I convinced my dad somehow to buy me a computer and back then it was all dos Spas right and then what year was this oh man this was probably 1990 as early as 1990 what do you remember the computer it was a Packard Bell packmate 3 it was a 486 system with one mega ram and a 40 megabyte hard drive 486 oh sorry 286 I'm sorry it was 286 it was a 286 486 was that um and and so so it started there and then um you know I was a Band Geek in in high school but that that has nothing to do with it but I I met a lot of Geeks through being a bandgeek right so uh so I learned a lot about Doss and how to how to write batch files and and and to work the system right so so then when I was six right when I turned 16 I got a job as a cashier at Universal who doesn't want to work at Universal Studios right uh and we started off on the on the cash registers right your just typical cash register and then um you know about three or six months into into me being a cashier there they started rolling out these big honken uh IBM cash registers the ones that are connected and you know to as400 on the back end um and these systems would obviously go down all the time right because it's a brand new system brand new to the industry so I would I would watch over the tech shoulders as they're fixing it right because it's like it's all familiar to me um and so uh so I so I ended up just going to the help desk naturally right like my my plan was to get a business degree I was majoring in marketing I wanted to go into marketing and so Universal was your part-time gig and Universal was yeah just just enough just to get enough money to to to pay for dates basically that was my goal right my uh my parents were paying for my college education I lived at home during college so all all I had was like all I needed was alcohol money and dating money that was it that was my goal now I remember I made $88 a week working part-time and that's all I needed and it was enough for me to do everything so anyhow so then um I got hired into the POS help desk because they found that the stores that I was in didn't have any issues well they did but I fixed them because I you know it was natural to me um so then fast forward to be graduating college and I said okay this Tech thing is cool now I'm going to go do what my calling is which is you know go into marketing do something and and I remember at the time I was making more than any entry-level job that I can find right I mean I didn't go to the USC's or the IV leagues of the world I went to seon right and I was a c student I did who cares right it's like I just get the degree and that that gets me wherever I want to go so so then I decided you know what I'm going to use my business degree because it is it's a business degree with an emphasis in marketing right so I'm going to use the business degree to get into management and so from there it just I just fell into one job after the next after the next and and although when you look at my resume it feels as though I planned every single step but I didn't I've just been all over the hospitality industry CU that next job happened to be in another sector and and so here I am today it just it just naturally happened and somewhere along the line I went back and got an NBA and I didn't want to get an NBA from uh from the states because that would make me you know just like every other NBA it would just make me yet another NBA guy so I went back home to Lebanon and and um and I studied in one of the oh you're from Lebanon I'm from Lebanon originally yeah no I need to then I need to dial this back to you know '90s so you are saying that you got a you got Hands-On 286 packet machine in Lebanon no here we moved here in in ' 89 in 89 so yeah it was it was about an about a a year after we um after we we moved here and I remember exactly when I saw the computer right in Lebanon there's there are computers but it's not not like it is here right no one had a computer back in the early 90s right it's just it was something that you know businesses were just starting to adopt and trying to figure it out you know you had accountants that were trying to make Lotus 123 work and I I was back in India so as a kid um you know I got my hands on a 286 in ' 92 yeah yeah so that was like like in '93 there was a 3 at six right you know I I think for me the funny thing was while this 286 386 and 486 had no correlation to the ears yeah you know in my head as a kid 92 I got a 286 93 386 486 and 95 voila Pentium right pum yeah so I mean as a kid for me it was like almost Intel is doing this by years I mean of course later I realized it had nothing to do with them but yeah so yeah that was my journey I went uh I I got my MBA from the American University of Beirut which is you know no one in the US knows about Au right it's it's it's Au short but when you look at the top 500 universities in the world Au is on there it's like it's not on the I mean it's like you know maybe between four and 500 so it's on the bottom of the list but it's pretty impressive and so uh what was interesting there because I wanted to set myself apart right and I knew that everything was going global so I said why am I getting all these degrees from the US that's not going to set me apart but what will is if I go to a foreign country um study how they conduct business there obviously the Middle East is is really hot Lebanon not so much but you know the Gulf region is just on fire so um so what that university did is it would draw a lot of people from the Gulf to come to Lebanon for it was it was an executive NBA right so you your commitment was one weekend a month so so it was easy month yes it was it was very easy for them to do so you'd have have full day Friday full day Saturday half day Sunday and that was it that wasab one month I do speak Arabic my mom's Arab my dad's Armenian so it's like so I still speak both of the languages and like how much how much of that Lebanese cultural influence still existed in your life while like while being here in the states for forever it's still very strong right because um you know my dad's not around but my mom is and uh she lives like let's call it less than two miles away from from me so every day she sneaks in she has a key to my place so she sneaks in and drops in whatever she's cooked for the day so when I get home at night that I have I mean sure I can put that in the fridge and go eat something else but you know Middle Eastern food is so good I love it you know um so so that so that part of it still still very much so uh although I moved here when I was like seven years old um I I would have expected to be more Americanized sure I'm very Americanized right when I went back to Lebanon the study I realized that home is the US and I'm more American than I am Middle Eastern but there's it's like it's very much of a hybrid thing right so I take I I felt like I took the Best of Both Worlds and kind of merged them together and and so that's how I live my life but then my daughter on the other hand she's very like not you know it's you just lose it right over time you just lose it and then everyone kind of becomes American with you know just looking a little different so so you know in Indians um in in in Hindi in Indian language um people from India are called theis uh thei is just like countrymen right in Hindi right so so we we have a word for Indians who were like the second generation who were born in the US and who go back to India and they're like like they're not able to understand what's going on here right because people want to relate to them but they're all they're completely out of like they're not able to relate so so the acronym is ABCD American Born confused they see so so ABCD is a thing like it's it's like you know you know when when when we have people over you know who are second generation Americans indian Americans and you know somebody will basically say ABCD and I I think from that point onwards like people make way for them that it's okay chill it's we we understand that you don't get it yeah that's very true and that that happened to me when I went back to the Middle East right I made some friends and and and that's when I I learned that I was more American than than I was Middle Eastern because my my parents lived a very Middle Eastern lifestyle right their their friends were all from Lebanon they went to Lebanese restaurants when they went out and sure they explored outside of that but most of their life was lived in America as Middle Eastern people so it was it was interesting to see that shift so Leon back to your universal time you started you know looking at these IBM machines and and partner Sales Systems and and got hired by the it side you know of of universal then what happened where did you move next and and when did when did this become like pure it role you know I was never really fully committed to it so as as a as as a younger person you're very not strategic and you just chase after money right so I knew that at Universal I had to wait for either someone to get promoted or unfortunately die or retire right for me to to step up right so and um and I I've always been very ambitious right and I I love a challenge I truly love a challenge and I get bored very quickly if I'm doing the same stuff so um so what I did is I started looking for a job as much as I loved Universal and they paid for part of my education also um I I I started looking and then I got picked up by Baja Fresh and that was during the Heyday of Baja Fresh right and so um so I would basically go out and open these stores right at the time like dsls were just becoming a normal thing in in restaurants so uh so there wasn't very muchl means like the like the Le lines yes the the connectivity so there was n very much to do other than make sure the POS system works and you know what I mean and you just sit there and and um and and wait for something to go wrong which it never did but I was traveling the country doing that stuff um and then I did that for a year and then I kind of got bored of traveling everywhere uh had an opportunity my first opportunity at the age of 25 to be a director at Santa Anita Racetrack and so that was very interesting because it was a very boring job but uh and I was truly an insurance plan for them right because uh what food and beverage would do at the time at Santa Anita on The Big Race days I mean they would pull in like 1.6 million in in Revenue in one day so they couldn't afford for their POS system to go down so they literally hired me to make sure that POS didn't go down it's you know it's big Stakes you know so um so I did that for a while and then I got bored and I went into the uh kind how long did you do that man short stins like maybe a year and a half I did exactly a year at Bahu fresh I went from April I forget what the date was from April to April uh and then I did the Santa Anita thing for a year and then I'm like you know what and I I mean and Santa Anita was the first time that I had Direct reports because I was in charge of all the cashiers so I had like almost 100 employees that I had to watch as a 25-year-old and these uh were older people you know ladies in their you know 50s and 6 s and they're like I have grandkids your age what are you doing telling me what to do so um so it really shaped me as a leader right because um I'm not a rule with an iron fist kind of a leader I'm more of a let's let's work together so that you could see things my way and if there's a flaw in it let's let's chat about that and then we can pivot if there's you know what I mean um so it was interesting it was interesting managing those those ladies uh and I just I just kept going to different places and uh you know I did the nin Club Circuit for a while and that was fun uh I worked on the Sahara hotel when it was being converted into SLS uh and that was probably one of the biggest um accomplishments for me I mean I've I've had a lot of them I've fallen into a lot of these like things where I'm like oh my God this is i' I've done something major here what what was that like what was the major challenge that you felt you know was really a big Challenge and and an accomplishment later on um it's I I'm not sure hotels that you're talking about right with with the hotel well it was brand new to me right um the hotel world was brand new to me because I had restaurants down by then um and so so hotels was new and then you layer in a casino hotel and it's a whole other world right because from a wiring perspective there's there's special requirements so learning all of that stuff was was really tough and there was no one to to basically say well here's here's what you need to do so I had to learn while while building the plans and everything like that so uh it was very interesting and what was more interesting was that so we did the plans and then funding didn't hit on the project so uh I ended up leaving SBE because 08 hit it was around the time where 08 hit which is why funding didn't hit um and so I moved on the Pinkberry but I never saw my plans come to fruition so fast forward several years later they built the SLS Hotel and I got to go in and see how much of what I planned got implemented and I think that was really rewarding right because someone else took over the project and you know when you typically take over someone else's project you tear it apart and like redo everything so it was nice to see some of the things that I had put in there that that were still there what was the next stint after the hotel so after SBE I went uh I went to Pinkberry and that's when where I I started finding my true calling which is high growth companies right so Pinkberry was was at a place where they were in um in California mostly SoCal in New York because one of our California franchisees had a had a brother that lived in New York so New York was just kind of a byproduct of of being related to someone in California and they wanted to move you know Nationwide and worldwide so uh so that was a challenge that that I that I faced is that how do we take this and and take it to the Middle East and India and everywhere else uh and then how do we replicate it internally so you joined them when they were about to go GL they were right yeah they brought me on board to help them do that um and so that was very fun and interesting um what year was this this was um it was right around when the 08 crash hit so it was like September of ' 08 I think um you know right when everybody was doing nothing pink Berry was just exploding so they were you know getting real estate you know Prime real estate Pennies on the dollar and just kind of doubling down on uh on on that you know on that side of the business so it was really fun to do that uh then after that I went to uh I joined Greg dollar height at Veggie Grill so Greg was the guy that uh that bought Baja Fresh and grew it and then sold it to Wendy's for multiples um and so you know he got involved with Veggie Grill and he's like we're going to do this thing all over again that we did with uh with Baja Fresh and he had he had done that with a couple other uh businesses in in the meantime so so I I I took a pay out and then went to Veggie gril to help them scale it um and so we did we did some of that uh and I ended up leaving and going to the Middle East to to get my MBA and and my dad had some things to take care of some legal things to take care of over there um so so you you went for your MBA in what year uh 2015 2015 and your pberry stin was how long uh my Pinkberry stint was about three years is three years is if you look at my resume it's and it's not by design it just so happens that way I'm kind of maybe I'll ask chat GPT one day to figure it out but I have about a three to three and a half year shelf life at at companies like it's just at the 3 to three and a half year mark something happens I end up going somewhere else and it truly is a sweet spot for for both sides right for for the business and for me right because I I come in I there's two things that I do I I fix broken departments and I scale companies right from a from an IT perspective and so um so at the three-year Mark regardless of what the company brought me in to do I end up accomplishing that stabilizing and once things stabilize I get really demotivated cuz I'm not somebody that just wants to do the same thing over and over again I don't want to keep the lights on there's plenty of people that are really good at that I probably really fail at that so so I end up just hiring my replacement and I've done that plenty of times I'll hire my replacement give it a month Runway so that they're up and running and then I exit and and start something else well spring pettry the first one uh where you got like a global exposure um it yes um at SBE there was there was some uh Global exposure there they were um they were just about to expand the uh the Katsuya brand and you know they had they had a bunch of um restaurant Brands and and hotel Brands obviously there were nightclubs restaurants and hotels mostly so um so there was some exposure there but I didn't execute on anything it was a lot of planning and then no execution so Pinkberry was the the whole thing right planning to to even formulating the what the model looks like for international because the thing about International is that you're just giving them the secret sauce and they're running it they're growing it they're putting in their own POS they have their own infrastructure and everything right so there's very little to do but the little that you have to do you have to make sure that that you do it right otherwise the international part of it becomes like it's hard to scale um so that that's where I mean International in restaurant Tech can be can be really wild because because each country comes with its own you know fiscalization at times their own language their own currency their own decimal system and and whatnot right so yeah have did you deal with that or like was that was that not your problem it was it was less that and uh and so the local frenchise like has has all that right has all that figured out the biggest challenge was that around the time that I was growing Pinkberry there were a couple problems right um it there was there there was news about Taco Bell um because Taco Bell in the early days allowed you to as a franchisee to get any POS you wanted and then around 08 was when systems just the heavy integration into systems like started really coming into fruition where you just you saw your Tech stack Beyond just the POS at the core right there was all this stuff that was happening around it so so we learned from Taco Bell that having different POS systems was was was a disadvantage so we didn't want to do that um and we had just put in a data warehouse where we're back pulling sales automatically and things like that so that was really the biggest challenge that we have to face is that well what do we do from a POS perspective because we we want to get sales automatically overnight from uh from all the international sites and do the currency conversion thing at the data warehouse level and what are the rules you know with exchange rates and stuff like that so uh so that was really the biggest challenge right from a menu perspective sure as long as we'll give you the PLU numbers you match them and then you can run whatever you want but we needed a system that we could I think that the challenge that you're talking about that's Still Remains even in 2024 for so many brands in the world right it just yeah the challenges challenge never got solved you know it didn't Integrations got better yeah yeah that but that's still incremental it is yeah it's very much got it and you know what after Pinkberry so after Pinkberry I did um the Veggie Grill thing and I grew it then went to the Middle East for two years so I um I had planned to go to the Middle East and I said you know what I'm just going to become a socialite for two years I've worked so hard in my career uh and obviously the cost of living in Lebanon is is much less right from a day-to-day standpoint if you're going to go clubbing and drinking and stuff like that I it's it's about the same right you part is hard Beirut parties like no one else I mean the parties there are really really good um but uh three weeks into it I I learned that I couldn't just sit around and do nothing and that was that was very sad for me right because it it was foreshadowing about like how my retirement was going to look cuz I knew that cuz you always dream of you know I want to retire by the time I'm and then travel the world and do all the things I wanted to do that I couldn't do when I was younger but I realized that sure I can do that but I have to be working part-time so that's when I started a Consulting gig and I just all I wanted to do is work like 10 hours a week just to feel like I have a purpose because I was waking up in the morning and I'd see everyone exiting the building and going to work and then in the evening coming back and I was sitting there and I'm like my life is worth more than me going to a bar or Pool Club and just being by myself and I kind of want someone to be with me right you kind of want a companion well it's hard finding a companion during working hours yeah um so I did the Consulting thing and it was fun uh I worked with a bunch of Brands I worked with some of the vendors that are here um just helping them have it be with strategy or Integrations or whatever 201516 this is 2015 to 2017 but why did you go for NBA in the first place you know it's interesting so I um so I was doing really well at veggie gril I've always wanted to get my MBA and I always specifically wanted to get my MBA from USC but then I decided I was just going to be another USC grad with a big uh a big bill to pay um so I knew I wanted my MBA because I had spoken to people that had them and it wasn't so much about the curriculum it was more about that common theme that everyone kept talking about which is that you really mature as a person and as a professional when you go through that program so I wanted that um and so I went I went and got my MBA and sure enough it just it made me so much more mature and confident what dimensions like what did it add to you which you you know which you immediately felt was different at at the most basic level uh it made me realize that no one has all the answers and um and no one no one is is really right so it's I prior to completing my MBA first of all I was too shy to talk to CEOs cuz I felt that there were just there was something that was like bigger than than I was right like it wasn't you know their time wasn't worth me taking it away from him right to ask a question or to converse so uh and what that did is you know it it took that not the fear but it gave me more confidence to walk up and have a conversation right and so and so we did that and then and then it also helped me quite a bit with with like negotiation and deescalation and stuff like that you just you learn a lot what what I liked about my program was that I learned a lot about using the tools that I already had just developing them more so it wasn't like they were taking me through this process for me to become a lemming coming out of the other end of it I just I became a better version of of of my lemming um but you know it's interesting when you say you know what you said about like the like how you viewed a CEO's time and you know you know probably your own worth in the system as a as a role let's say what part of MBA gave you that confidence that you can like what what what did it look like was it just the communication or was it some other realization I think it was the the re well it was twofold one of them is that the um the the MBA program although no one really knows about it here it's like uh all of our professors were celebrities almost um so they flew in a lot of a lot of profound professors from here because it's a weekend course right so within a weekend you're basically doing a semester worth of coursework so they would fly in someone from the US that's you know Harvard Stamford whatever like these these big time um professors to to basically lecture you right so so there's a lot of ins there from them because these guys are Beyond these CEOs that I was you know what I mean like these these guys like published stuff and people listen to so it was it was really that that uh that kind of gave me the realization that we're all people right and um and and some people have you know uh smaller titles uh because they just choose to be comfortable there and and have a social life and others like CEOs and CFOs and and CTO uh um live their life in the office and that's why they're there right there's I think there's not very many sea levels that just accidentally get into a role and if they do then they're not very good at it so they just the the industry kind of weeds them out right um but it was basically that and then everyone kind of saying no one has it figured out we all read articles and we deduce what we deduce from articles and that's what we talk about and sometimes the article is incorrect so we end up being incorrect so it kind of gave me the the confidence to challenge things or to ask follow-up questions and and you get those tools too right because that's what you're essentially doing because my EMB program was less about study this book and then take a test it was more about case studies and then they completely shred you apart on this thing that you're really proud of and and you just learn that it's less about the answer more about the perspective and it's like there's so many dimensions to everything like you could just kind of like a Rubik cube right you could take it and like and and just and just turn it and and you have another dimension another picture of that topic so post 2017 did people around you notice the change that you're talking about I don't think so um and and so I don't know about my peers um we all leveled up right we just naturally all leveled up and I don't know if it was the program or the confidence right cuz sometimes it's less about what you learn and more about just how you present yourself um but we all leveled up and I'm very informal um in my Approach right in the office sure I'm formal and I use big words and things like that because I you just feel like you need to to to kind of um to get whatever you need done but I'm very informal in my Approach right so uh I think the fact that I'm so informal I just look like a regular guy that you know um that just came back from the Middle East and and and spoke better Arabic what what happened after like after 2017 well at 2017 I came back here and then uh coincidentally enough I went back to Universal and so the cool story about that was that I left Universal as help desk manager so I started from being the lowest technici basically doing all the grunt work swapping out Hardwares and and stuff like that to running the entire team over there so I was running uh everything so so when I joined the uh the theme park was theme park it was like cut in two things that we had the hard drive uh the hardware group and then we had the software group and so I was managing the software group that oversaw food retail and front ticketing front uh front of front gate ticketing uh so my team managed all that and it was one of the there was we had a lot of really good accomplishments there um which was awesome but then I I kind of felt like man I'm I'm GNA have this job forever and I want to be a director I want to be a VP I want to grow and if I want to do that I just I don't have very many years to wait for someone to die because it's at that point now you're gun in for director and these people have been at Universal for 30 40 years and so you're like are they going to retire I don't think so cuz the job's really easy so you know so I was kind of found myself in that situation so I knew I had to leave so uh less than a year into it I got that opportunity to join Blaze Pizza so I hopped on there you know uh and and joined Blaze and so you know we did three and a half years at Blaze and and I think I think Blaze was really like you joined them while they were in like high growth phase already yes right yes so because because for Blaze I think the growth years were 2012 to 18 if I'm not wrong or 19 uh a little bit before that I mean um the pandemic really screwed things up um but uh but up until the pandemic it was it was still growing at a steady rate um you know we were doing 70 to 100 stores a year um and you know that was very few years years right because I think they got to like 375 stores and then and then the the the big growth stopped at 375 and that was you know right before the pandemic was when was when that we they got to that level that store count and so we got them through the pandemic and and um then you know just went on to the next challenge and how did Dave's happen Dave's was actually I felt fell into Dave so uh right after Blaze I went to Kitchen United because ghost kitchens were blowing up and uh and uh they needed my help on the it operations side so uh I joined them to run uh it operations and uh and it was it was a lot of fun because it's you know ghost kitchens were the new thing and and I didn't know there was there was definitely an opportunity for ghost kitchens to let just explode right because it the concept of ghost kitchens makes so much sense for everybody um so I joined them and then um then you know I ended up the the job was great and I had always kept in touch with Jim who's who's our president coo uh and he was at Blaze so he knew about what I can accomplish and everything like that my Partnerships with all the the various cross functional teams and everything like that and and so um so he had a spot and he said he always wanted to bring me on and and it we always talked about it uh jokingly but it just became a reality one day he called me and he goes so are you are you ready to join us and um and I just I was curious and that Curiosity turned into a job you know a couple conversations later I just I couldn't say no because the team was so good and and obviously most of the people that are at Dave's Hot Chicken are ex Blaze people and so it was and I loved those guys you know what I mean we it was they're they're more than just family right like it's just there's there's so much that we accomplished together like we we failed together we succeeded together we pulled late nights together you know what I mean so uh and it was just kind of like getting the band back together and uh and I just I couldn't say no and how was it how was it the second time you know getting the same team together I I generally wonder about these kind of Dynamics because you know when when a team comes together and accomplishes like something something like let's say what Blaze saw as a growth right uh you're doing this for the first time and you know a lot can just fall into place and a lot of Dynamics can like look great but does it look as good the second time it's it's night and day better you know why because we all make mistakes we still make mistakes until this day but when you go through the Blaze Pizza thing you know the mistakes you made so you avoid those landmines when you're growing Daves right and sure you make some other mistakes at Daves and but it's just the entire team was just more mature it's kind of like do you golf no okay so um you know in golf what every your your worst shot is always your first shot right and if you take the same shot over again right you you just you do much better right because you know what you did wrong the first shot so it's like now you're swinging the club better so it's exactly like that like we we do think so much more efficiently with such fewer mistakes but when you're when you're advancing at that scale you obviously make other mistakes right it's like it's kind of like a video game right you you you you beat the rookie level now you're in the intermediate level so it's like so now there's new challenges right and so you overcome those things and really the team was very mature to begin with at Blaze right because their ex cause like the majority of them were CS Junior people so they grew that brand and and kind of got raised in that brand so we've all brought in a bunch of experience right doing what what we do here at Dave's which is to grow a brand and to grow it right and to make sure that we don't lose sight of of why we're here in the first place what's keeping you excited at Dave's today what's the challenge you know Dave unless unless we are already hitting a three and a half year cycle no no no I'm a year and a half in I'm going to be at at Dave's for for a really long time I've made that commitment and personally I want to make that commitment um because because Daves is a different kind of company so um first of all it's the best company I've ever worked at you know companies talk about culture right having a good culture and Dave's has they have an authentically good culture right our uh our Founders are still very much involved in the business they you know they show up at the office and you know and they're just and whenever they show up it's like this loud event they come in and like everyone's shaking hands hugging and um our CEO bill is is awesome one of the best CEOs ever he's I mean his his whole thing is just hire people and let them do what they do best uh which is great you know a lot of CEOs hire great people but then they they have that fear of fully letting go and letting them make mistakes and and learn new things and and just kind of excel where they are so he's very much about that um and Jim's awesome you know what I mean he's like one of the best people I've ever I loved our conversation like you know that's not out yet but but by the time this comes out I'm sure it'll be out so yeah yeah I I loved them so so the team is the team is excellent the culture is great everyone's awesome everyone's collaborative like everything that that you read in a magazine about what a great company looks like like Dave's is the definition of that that's a that's a that's a big one it is it is it it doesn't feel like work so and and that's that's typically when I start kind of getting demotivated and thinking about leaving when I wake up in the morning and I go oh man it's Tuesday I got you know four more days to go how am I you know what I mean and it's just when I wake up on Monday morning I'm excited and you know what Monday mornings for me are not pretty because we have all of the meetings with the vendors on Mondays my day starts off with a management meeting where we're basically uh updating the entire you know everyone that's manager and above in the company on on updates in our department so you know I have to set up a PowerPoint every morning every Monday morning before 8:30 to update the company on what's Happening and I've never woken up and thought Oh God it's Monday I have to do that PowerPoint and in fact a lot of times I'll you know you take weekend trips right and and so you plan to come back on Monday and and and sure enough when on on those days where I'm on vacation I get up in the morning during vacation I put my PowerPoint together I video it so that we can have you know one of the hosts basically run the replay and it's not a requirement right it's not no one requires me to uh during my vacation to update the company you just if you miss a week then you know next time you just give a two we update you know but it's just I naturally just want to do it and keep everyone updated and so it's just it's great Leon what what kind of leader are you uh you know it's um that's that's a very good question so um I'm I'm in the process of finding out what type of it's it's ever evolving let me tell you it's ever evolving and um a big um there was a big Epiphany for me uh at Universal so Universal was really good this is my second round so not not when I was a child when I was an adult um so uh Universal is very very big on um Rising people from from the from the theme park into management position so they have a lot of uh a lot of training sessions and things like that so I took a like a management course so I thought you know have an MBA let me let me just see what these guys are about and uh and the the topic was situational leadership you know it it talked about people's willingness to to do a task and their ability to do a task and it's like four squares basically and you go from just micromanaging them to doing what Bill does which is if they're willing and able to do a job just let them do it just leave them alone and let them do it um so I went from so prior to let's say my MBA program it was very like dictatorial like this is this is what the vision is this is what we're going to do we're going to go do it go do it you know and um i' I've never been a micromanager but it's always been like you know just a one-way thing and then after the MBA I I just learned that people have better ideas than I do you know so so now I'm more collaborative but I use my situational leadership skills that I learned there and it's it's really easy you could watch a YouTube video for three and a half minutes and it tells you everything you need to know and it's the greatest thing that um that that anyone can get from an insights perspective but I'm very collaborative now um and um there's there's hardly any meetings where I say no this is what we have to do um but but but does it does that get too soft and Democratic because you know when you are when you are in the business when you are you know when you're supposed to have systems not breaking down or when you are trying to you know gun for stability reliability in the systems alluding to you know your parts of your role anyway right so having ideas is one thing like but does it become Democratic because I think at times and most of the times you as a leader have to say hey you know what this is the path and we'll go we'll go this way you definitely have to be the tiebreaker right and there's and there's a place for that um in in the process right so um so the way I approach it I it's it's definitely Democratic but the it's it's kind of um so so the way I work it is that here's here's what I think we should be doing what do you guys think and then they chime in with their stuff and then there's just as much of me challenging them uh on their response as they're challenging me on my direction and then together we get to to to that final decision right and there have been times where I've said guys I just my gut tells me that this is the way we have to go um so let's just go that way but that's you know if you've built credibility with your team then they go okay you'll get an eye roll but you'll get the okay and you'll get their commitment so it is democratic but it just it comes back to this is a real decision that we're making and it's and we're a franchise system right so it's it's not our money that we're wasting right it's the franchisees money that we we could potentially be wasting so we have to be really careful with that what what pisses you off the most when you're working with people man um I I'm I'm very impatient with um I'm I'm very I'm very impatient um when when people are are are slow um um to get get things done that that should get should be done um because I just I just like to I I like to be a wood chipper right I just like to get through things right and um and I catch myself I I know that different people have different capacity levels and So within your capacity as long as you're doing your best then you're doing a good job um but sometimes people get distracted and there's competing priorities and so the real things that we should be focused on don't don't really um don't really progress as quickly as they should right because you know I have a vision and I'm looking at things from a 30,000 foot level and I go sure zip tying cables at a new restaurant that aren't zip tied correctly is important but you know we really have this really big project with KDs that has been kind of sitting there on the shelf for four weeks and it's much better to just do this cuz there's going to be a lot more that's going to be contributing to the business than some cables being zip tied that are going to be cut anyway and it's going to look like a bowl of spaghetti like in two months when something breaks um so it's it's that you know um I I get impatient with those things I go what are you thinking you got to focus here that's that's that that's our North Star so how do you how do you you know how do you prepare your like people who are about to work with you or new people who are you know who was starting with you do you prepare them with a manual that this is how you need to work with me um there's there's no manual it's it's kind of uh it's always I'm I'm learning about them and their triggers and their their learning about me and what I expect and so so it's always this this push and pull right um and you know we hire good people right that that come to work with a purpose so I also don't want to break anyone's Spirit right if you were really passionate about Cable Management um then you should pursue the passion but that doesn't sound that nice but that I mean listen my whole thing is if I had uh and I'm using a really bad analogy or really bad example but the way I run it is that if I'm really passionate about cable management and my CTO isn't really passionate about it I mean I'm passionate enough but not very passionate then you're you're doing that on your personal time right um and what I mean by that is that if you spent two hours now rezip tying cables then um maybe you should give give an hour to something that really matters at the at the end of the day where you maybe plan to watch some TV shows um but I don't I don't force it but it's you know it's you know the guys that I work for uh spend a lot or I work with I I uh I spend a lot of time with them like learning them and learning what what they like and what they dislike and and so uh as a manager I'm more friendly with them and and and I've and I've learned that and I I it took me a while to figure this out that um and I think I got this from from one of the guys I worked with and in in the past that I'm very friendly and um with with my team but I can get serious very quickly and they know that the switch has been flipped so they get serious with me um so I I have a really good Knack on on just flipping that switch without them kind of you know missing the beat on it because sometimes that that could lead to frustration too right when you get serious and they're still joking around with you uh and obviously you you always have to kind of have a really thin line in the sand on fr ship versus like we're now we're now mean business what do you what do you do when you have to fire someone firing people is never easy um it's never easy so I I look I always look for people's strengths right because that's that's one of the things we have to do as a manager right because you've assigned someone a task or given them a specific job or they were hired to do a specific job if they're bad at that doesn't mean that they're bad at everything so uh so I try to find what people are passionate about what they're good at and and put them there but sometimes you you don't have a space for that and so um you have to do what's right for the business so what kind of what kind of you know manager or leader are you when you fire people is it confrontational you know are you still able to like what what happens when somebody else is you know not doing right and also bitter not able to understand what you're saying what do you do you know I I don't think I don't think think anyone I fired a couple people in my um in my career uh I don't think any one of those people were surprised when they were when when the event actually took place right um so there's a lot of conversations that are that are happening and it's it's not your typical I'm going to write you up and then I'm going to suspend you it's it's not that path that I take I think it's that that path just leads everyone down the wrong path right I mean you talk to a lawyer they say that's the absolute path CU that you don't you never get sued right um but I'm I'm very involved in listen I really need you to perform at this level how can I help you get there and if they choose not to not to to go there or or or to not work at it then then they've chosen to exit already right and if they and if they're on for the ride with you and they can't cut it then they also know through the Journey that I I need more I need more I need more and so uh so it's anticipated right what do you what do you do to keep yourself nurtured what do you do for your your own mind your own brain both of them actually so my my brain is always thinking about work right that's how my dad was wired and he's never worked for anyone in his entire life uh and I'm actually the black sheep of the family because I I didn't join the family business but uh but I'm always thinking about work and I found that the only way to get my mind off of work or to not think about work is uh is to do something dangerous which is my hobby um so I have I have a little car a highly modified little car and I take it down uh Canyons I do I do Canyon drives with it uh at very high speeds um so so I do that about once a month when you say a little car is it a monster truck no no no it's uh are you familiar with the Fiats the the 124 it kind of looks like a Miata but it's not um some of some of the Fiat Fanboys argue that it's a baby Ferrari cuz someone from Ferrari came in and designed the car but it's like nowhere near Ferrari uh the price tag is definitely not but that I've I've noticed that I've always loved cars right but uh the can ion thing came about um when I when I first became a director because you have real problems that you have to solve and they're not very easy right um and so the way I found that it clears my head is that when when you're it's just you and the steering wheel and there's a canyon on the other side that you can very easily fall off and end everything you just you don't think about anything but what you're doing and so I find that really therapeutic which is really messed up but I find that really th apeutic uh and it's it's quite fun that's interesting I'm almost picturing that I mean please please let us know if you have a if you have a you know shot of that we would love to you know put this at this point uh but and what do you do to nurture yourself from like knowledge information or like do you read podcasts you know I I uh I love podcasts but I I don't my commute isn't very big right it's a 15 minute door to-door commute so I can't get very many podcasts in or keep up with podcasts uh but I I do read in the morning every morning I go to the office about an hour before anyone else gets in or I try to get in an hour before and and I just read stuff I read random things um to to kind of get up to speed on what's happening in Hospitality what's happening in Airline What's happen you know what I mean just because the good ideas don't come from the hospital hospitality industry comes from other Industries um so that's that's what I do to to kind of nurture the Curiosity and to keep up with stuff when you say that good ideas don't come from hospitality and they come from other Industries you know that's a that's an interesting statement like what Innovation you think was you know actually came from other areas which Hospitality or restaurant sled up quite late you know the the new thing in restaurants is like CDP and learning truly learning what your your customers are doing and and where else they're shopping when they're not shopping with you and Retail had that figured out a really long time ago like really really long time ago and it's all new to hospitality I mean there's been companies that have tried to do that but up until let's say about a year ago maybe two years ago no one really did it well or provided any insight where you were looking at real data right because because a lot of what the hospitality industry used to do is that they have a loyalty program which is probably 10% of their population they make all their business decisions assuming that that 10% population comprises 100% um and sometimes that's not true right you're that's not true right so uh so these new CDP platforms that you know CDP is a big thing right you can you can always find out more about the guest but that requires teams and and probably seven fig bigger budgets just to just to run those systems right and and what we're seeing today is that you just you just have a dashboard and you ask questions per se like it's it hasn't gotten there but if you're curious about something you're can you can very easily find that answer through those CDP platforms where retail was doing a long long time ago and we just started doing that now I you're right I think I I think the same um about U Dynamic pricing which was a big de and I have my own opinions on it but I think uh if it were to come through the way world is thinking right now I think OTAs online travel you know Airlines and hotels specifically have had it figured out long long long time back and they do it like quite you know with a flesh yeah I think everyone wants to Dynam Dynamic pricing to to get that opportunity to make more per per check um but I I I don't think those it works for Airlines because there's there's a finite Supply flights scarcity of Supply is the so same thing with Uber like a lot of people use those those examples but in the restaurant industry there's there's bottlenecks there's no there's no Supply shortage right uh if you're willing to wait 45 minutes for your food then then you wait 45 minutes for your food um but it's not like one you know your 15minute window sold out you just you can't buy the food anymore so I don't think Dynamic pricing works for restaurants but I'm I hope I'm wrong one day I I mean I'm I'm of the same opinion by the way I also believe that uh dynamic prizing in the restaurants is being looked at wrong uh because I don't think it's a dynamic pricing I think the only thing which is finite Supply in the restaurants is inventory on on certain days and certain times right right and if there's a predictable increase in price for example a Friday night at a pub can have a 10% increment in the price which is you know which is known and it'll still fly right because on a Friday night that inventory is limited and you know I can still appreciate you know like a 10% increase there uh I think that's that's as far as Dynamic pricing in the rest restaurants ideally should go um you know having a surge prize I don't really I don't really get it uh I keep seeing all the debates and I and I mean I run a tech company right so technically you know we are we are supposed to also offer integrate you know with these systems but you know I am seeing this as a past restaurant operator as well that when I when I look at it I'm like you know what just because technology can do that doesn't mean that we should do that right I mean it's it's probably anti uh you know restaurant customer or restaurant you know the way restaurants operate yeah you know it's interesting that you made that comment about Friday night it resonates with me and it makes sense but only if the restaurant and this is where it's going to fail right uh only if the restaurant guarantees that I'm going to get my food in 15 minutes right because I'll pay 10% more as long as you deliver Ely some sort of a priority yeah so if I pay 10% more and I'm still waiting 45 minutes then why am I paying 10% more you just you know if you want to raise your price my whole thing is you want to raise your prices 10% raise it no one's going to say anything there's you know few people will drop off because they can't afford it anymore but there's something that irks people with this Dynamic pricing because because people remember prices they go wait a minute I came in on Tuesday at 4M and I got the same food for $10 plus tax whatever why is it $1.89 now and and so it's like people kind of feel cheated right um and that's not good and then people and then the younger population games the system right they go okay well if at 2 o' it's 11 bucks and at 4:00 it's you know 8.99 I'm just I'm just going to wait two
hours and I'm going to go you know so it's like Dynamic pricing isn't always an advant I don't think it will be an advantage in restaurants but we'll see whatever yeah I think I I think bless one to that my opinion also is kind of you know uh against it if that's that's not strong enough Leon this was uh this was a great conversation got to learn a lot about you um and not only you have had an interesting journey I think I can see um you know very few people I know can you know own their like multiple shifts in the career the way you owned it you know fully and that's amazing because I can also see that you know that that made you who you are um thank you for being here I hope this conversation was worth your time this was great I loved it thank you for inviting me [Music]
2024-07-29