Leon Davoyan Revolutionizing Restaurant Technology from the 90s to Today

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Hi welcome to Restrocast today my guest  on the Pod is Leon Dean CTO at Dave's   Hot Chicken Leon is someone who started at  the bottom at as the POS guy and Rose up to   become the chief technology officer of one of  the fastest growing chains in the world right now as one of the early super Geeks to  somebody who talks about driving his Fiat   down the canyon when he wants to clear  his head someone who in middle of his   career went on to do MBA outside of America  just to you know not only learn but to make   sure that he gets a view of the world that is  outside of his comfort zone Leon's Journey was   really really interesting and worth learning  from do watch welcome to restro cast [Music]   Leon welcome to restr cast thank you glad to be  here thank you for agreeing to do this um I want   to start from where it all started tell me take  me through your early years and you know how come   technology and that to restaurant technology back  in early '90s when I was looking at at your you   know your cograph I was like wow you were doing  Tech in FNB when people were not doing Tech in   the world in general so well how did it all start  that's right so we're going to go even before I   was old enough to work um so during my teenage  years um I I had I convinced my dad somehow to   buy me a computer and back then it was all dos  Spas right and then what year was this oh man   this was probably 1990 as early as 1990 what do  you remember the computer it was a Packard Bell   packmate 3 it was a 486 system with one mega ram  and a 40 megabyte hard drive 486 oh sorry 286 I'm   sorry it was 286 it was a 286 486 was that um and  and so so it started there and then um you know I   was a Band Geek in in high school but that that  has nothing to do with it but I I met a lot of   Geeks through being a bandgeek right so uh so I  learned a lot about Doss and how to how to write   batch files and and and to work the system right  so so then when I was six right when I turned 16   I got a job as a cashier at Universal who doesn't  want to work at Universal Studios right uh and we   started off on the on the cash registers right  your just typical cash register and then um you   know about three or six months into into me being  a cashier there they started rolling out these big   honken uh IBM cash registers the ones that are  connected and you know to as400 on the back end   um and these systems would obviously go down all  the time right because it's a brand new system   brand new to the industry so I would I would watch  over the tech shoulders as they're fixing it right   because it's like it's all familiar to me um and  so uh so I so I ended up just going to the help   desk naturally right like my my plan was to get  a business degree I was majoring in marketing I   wanted to go into marketing and so Universal was  your part-time gig and Universal was yeah just   just enough just to get enough money to to to pay  for dates basically that was my goal right my uh   my parents were paying for my college education  I lived at home during college so all all I had   was like all I needed was alcohol money and dating  money that was it that was my goal now I remember   I made $88 a week working part-time and that's all  I needed and it was enough for me to do everything   so anyhow so then um I got hired into the POS  help desk because they found that the stores   that I was in didn't have any issues well they  did but I fixed them because I you know it was   natural to me um so then fast forward to be  graduating college and I said okay this Tech   thing is cool now I'm going to go do what my  calling is which is you know go into marketing   do something and and I remember at the time I  was making more than any entry-level job that I   can find right I mean I didn't go to the USC's or  the IV leagues of the world I went to seon right   and I was a c student I did who cares right it's  like I just get the degree and that that gets me   wherever I want to go so so then I decided you  know what I'm going to use my business degree   because it is it's a business degree with an  emphasis in marketing right so I'm going to use   the business degree to get into management and  so from there it just I just fell into one job   after the next after the next and and although  when you look at my resume it feels as though   I planned every single step but I didn't I've  just been all over the hospitality industry CU   that next job happened to be in another sector and  and so here I am today it just it just naturally   happened and somewhere along the line I went back  and got an NBA and I didn't want to get an NBA   from uh from the states because that would make me  you know just like every other NBA it would just   make me yet another NBA guy so I went back home to  Lebanon and and um and I studied in one of the oh   you're from Lebanon I'm from Lebanon originally  yeah no I need to then I need to dial this back   to you know '90s so you are saying that you got a  you got Hands-On 286 packet machine in Lebanon no   here we moved here in in ' 89 in 89 so yeah it  was it was about an about a a year after we um   after we we moved here and I remember exactly when  I saw the computer right in Lebanon there's there   are computers but it's not not like it is here  right no one had a computer back in the early   90s right it's just it was something that you know  businesses were just starting to adopt and trying   to figure it out you know you had accountants  that were trying to make Lotus 123 work and I I   was back in India so as a kid um you know I got my  hands on a 286 in ' 92 yeah yeah so that was like   like in '93 there was a 3 at six right you know I  I think for me the funny thing was while this 286   386 and 486 had no correlation to the ears yeah  you know in my head as a kid 92 I got a 286 93 386   486 and 95 voila Pentium right pum yeah so I mean  as a kid for me it was like almost Intel is doing   this by years I mean of course later I realized it  had nothing to do with them but yeah so yeah that   was my journey I went uh I I got my MBA from the  American University of Beirut which is you know   no one in the US knows about Au right it's it's  it's Au short but when you look at the top 500   universities in the world Au is on there it's  like it's not on the I mean it's like you know   maybe between four and 500 so it's on the bottom  of the list but it's pretty impressive and so uh   what was interesting there because I wanted to  set myself apart right and I knew that everything   was going global so I said why am I getting all  these degrees from the US that's not going to set   me apart but what will is if I go to a foreign  country um study how they conduct business there   obviously the Middle East is is really hot Lebanon  not so much but you know the Gulf region is just   on fire so um so what that university did is it  would draw a lot of people from the Gulf to come   to Lebanon for it was it was an executive NBA  right so you your commitment was one weekend a   month so so it was easy month yes it was it was  very easy for them to do so you'd have have full   day Friday full day Saturday half day Sunday and  that was it that wasab one month I do speak Arabic   my mom's Arab my dad's Armenian so it's like so  I still speak both of the languages and like how   much how much of that Lebanese cultural influence  still existed in your life while like while being   here in the states for forever it's still very  strong right because um you know my dad's not   around but my mom is and uh she lives like let's  call it less than two miles away from from me so   every day she sneaks in she has a key to my  place so she sneaks in and drops in whatever   she's cooked for the day so when I get home at  night that I have I mean sure I can put that in   the fridge and go eat something else but you know  Middle Eastern food is so good I love it you know   um so so that so that part of it still still very  much so uh although I moved here when I was like   seven years old um I I would have expected to be  more Americanized sure I'm very Americanized right   when I went back to Lebanon the study I realized  that home is the US and I'm more American than I   am Middle Eastern but there's it's like it's very  much of a hybrid thing right so I take I I felt   like I took the Best of Both Worlds and kind of  merged them together and and so that's how I live   my life but then my daughter on the other hand  she's very like not you know it's you just lose it   right over time you just lose it and then  everyone kind of becomes American with you know   just looking a little different so so you know in  Indians um in in in Hindi in Indian language um   people from India are called theis uh thei is just  like countrymen right in Hindi right so so we we   have a word for Indians who were like the second  generation who were born in the US and who go back   to India and they're like like they're not able  to understand what's going on here right because   people want to relate to them but they're all  they're completely out of like they're not able   to relate so so the acronym is ABCD American Born  confused they see so so ABCD is a thing like it's   it's like you know you know when when when we have  people over you know who are second generation   Americans indian Americans and you know somebody  will basically say ABCD and I I think from that   point onwards like people make way for them that  it's okay chill it's we we understand that you   don't get it yeah that's very true and that that  happened to me when I went back to the Middle East   right I made some friends and and and that's  when I I learned that I was more American than   than I was Middle Eastern because my my parents  lived a very Middle Eastern lifestyle right their   their friends were all from Lebanon they went to  Lebanese restaurants when they went out and sure   they explored outside of that but most of their  life was lived in America as Middle Eastern people   so it was it was interesting to see that shift so  Leon back to your universal time you started you   know looking at these IBM machines and and partner  Sales Systems and and got hired by the it side   you know of of universal then what happened where  did you move next and and when did when did this   become like pure it role you know I was never  really fully committed to it so as as a as as   a younger person you're very not strategic and  you just chase after money right so I knew that   at Universal I had to wait for either someone to  get promoted or unfortunately die or retire right   for me to to step up right so and um and I I've  always been very ambitious right and I I love a   challenge I truly love a challenge and I get bored  very quickly if I'm doing the same stuff so um so   what I did is I started looking for a job as much  as I loved Universal and they paid for part of my   education also um I I I started looking and then  I got picked up by Baja Fresh and that was during   the Heyday of Baja Fresh right and so um so I  would basically go out and open these stores right   at the time like dsls were just becoming a normal  thing in in restaurants so uh so there wasn't very   muchl means like the like the Le lines yes the  the connectivity so there was n very much to do   other than make sure the POS system works and you  know what I mean and you just sit there and and um   and and wait for something to go wrong which it  never did but I was traveling the country doing   that stuff um and then I did that for a year and  then I kind of got bored of traveling everywhere   uh had an opportunity my first opportunity at  the age of 25 to be a director at Santa Anita   Racetrack and so that was very interesting because  it was a very boring job but uh and I was truly   an insurance plan for them right because uh what  food and beverage would do at the time at Santa   Anita on The Big Race days I mean they would pull  in like 1.6 million in in Revenue in one day so   they couldn't afford for their POS system to go  down so they literally hired me to make sure that   POS didn't go down it's you know it's big Stakes  you know so um so I did that for a while and then   I got bored and I went into the uh kind how long  did you do that man short stins like maybe a year   and a half I did exactly a year at Bahu fresh I  went from April I forget what the date was from   April to April uh and then I did the Santa Anita  thing for a year and then I'm like you know what   and I I mean and Santa Anita was the first time  that I had Direct reports because I was in charge   of all the cashiers so I had like almost 100  employees that I had to watch as a 25-year-old   and these uh were older people you know ladies in  their you know 50s and 6 s and they're like I have   grandkids your age what are you doing telling  me what to do so um so it really shaped me as   a leader right because um I'm not a rule with an  iron fist kind of a leader I'm more of a let's   let's work together so that you could see things  my way and if there's a flaw in it let's let's   chat about that and then we can pivot if there's  you know what I mean um so it was interesting it   was interesting managing those those ladies uh and  I just I just kept going to different places and   uh you know I did the nin Club Circuit for a while  and that was fun uh I worked on the Sahara hotel   when it was being converted into SLS uh and that  was probably one of the biggest um accomplishments   for me I mean I've I've had a lot of them I've  fallen into a lot of these like things where I'm   like oh my God this is i' I've done something  major here what what was that like what was the   major challenge that you felt you know was really  a big Challenge and and an accomplishment later on um it's I I'm not sure hotels that you're talking  about right with with the hotel well it was brand   new to me right um the hotel world was brand new  to me because I had restaurants down by then um   and so so hotels was new and then you layer in a  casino hotel and it's a whole other world right   because from a wiring perspective there's there's  special requirements so learning all of that stuff   was was really tough and there was no one to to  basically say well here's here's what you need   to do so I had to learn while while building the  plans and everything like that so uh it was very   interesting and what was more interesting was that  so we did the plans and then funding didn't hit on   the project so uh I ended up leaving SBE because  08 hit it was around the time where 08 hit which   is why funding didn't hit um and so I moved on  the Pinkberry but I never saw my plans come to   fruition so fast forward several years later they  built the SLS Hotel and I got to go in and see how   much of what I planned got implemented and I think  that was really rewarding right because someone   else took over the project and you know when you  typically take over someone else's project you   tear it apart and like redo everything so it was  nice to see some of the things that I had put in   there that that were still there what was the  next stint after the hotel so after SBE I went   uh I went to Pinkberry and that's when where I  I started finding my true calling which is high   growth companies right so Pinkberry was was at a  place where they were in um in California mostly   SoCal in New York because one of our California  franchisees had a had a brother that lived in New   York so New York was just kind of a byproduct of  of being related to someone in California and they   wanted to move you know Nationwide and worldwide  so uh so that was a challenge that that I that   I faced is that how do we take this and and take  it to the Middle East and India and everywhere   else uh and then how do we replicate it internally  so you joined them when they were about to go GL   they were right yeah they brought me on board to  help them do that um and so that was very fun and   interesting um what year was this this was um it  was right around when the 08 crash hit so it was   like September of ' 08 I think um you know right  when everybody was doing nothing pink Berry was   just exploding so they were you know getting real  estate you know Prime real estate Pennies on the   dollar and just kind of doubling down on uh on  on that you know on that side of the business so   it was really fun to do that uh then after that I  went to uh I joined Greg dollar height at Veggie   Grill so Greg was the guy that uh that bought Baja  Fresh and grew it and then sold it to Wendy's for   multiples um and so you know he got involved with  Veggie Grill and he's like we're going to do this   thing all over again that we did with uh with  Baja Fresh and he had he had done that with a   couple other uh businesses in in the meantime so  so I I I took a pay out and then went to Veggie   gril to help them scale it um and so we did we  did some of that uh and I ended up leaving and   going to the Middle East to to get my MBA and and  my dad had some things to take care of some legal   things to take care of over there um so so you you  went for your MBA in what year uh 2015 2015 and   your pberry stin was how long uh my Pinkberry  stint was about three years is three years is   if you look at my resume it's and it's not by  design it just so happens that way I'm kind of   maybe I'll ask chat GPT one day to figure it out  but I have about a three to three and a half year   shelf life at at companies like it's just at the  3 to three and a half year mark something happens   I end up going somewhere else and it truly is a  sweet spot for for both sides right for for the   business and for me right because I I come in  I there's two things that I do I I fix broken   departments and I scale companies right from  a from an IT perspective and so um so at the   three-year Mark regardless of what the company  brought me in to do I end up accomplishing that   stabilizing and once things stabilize I get really  demotivated cuz I'm not somebody that just wants   to do the same thing over and over again I don't  want to keep the lights on there's plenty of   people that are really good at that I probably  really fail at that so so I end up just hiring   my replacement and I've done that plenty of times  I'll hire my replacement give it a month Runway so   that they're up and running and then I exit and  and start something else well spring pettry the   first one uh where you got like a global exposure  um it yes um at SBE there was there was some uh   Global exposure there they were um they were just  about to expand the uh the Katsuya brand and you   know they had they had a bunch of um restaurant  Brands and and hotel Brands obviously there were   nightclubs restaurants and hotels mostly so um so  there was some exposure there but I didn't execute   on anything it was a lot of planning and then no  execution so Pinkberry was the the whole thing   right planning to to even formulating the what  the model looks like for international because   the thing about International is that you're just  giving them the secret sauce and they're running   it they're growing it they're putting in their  own POS they have their own infrastructure and   everything right so there's very little to do  but the little that you have to do you have to   make sure that that you do it right otherwise the  international part of it becomes like it's hard to   scale um so that that's where I mean International  in restaurant Tech can be can be really wild   because because each country comes with its own  you know fiscalization at times their own language   their own currency their own decimal system and  and whatnot right so yeah have did you deal with   that or like was that was that not your problem  it was it was less that and uh and so the local   frenchise like has has all that right has all that  figured out the biggest challenge was that around   the time that I was growing Pinkberry there were a  couple problems right um it there was there there   was news about Taco Bell um because Taco Bell in  the early days allowed you to as a franchisee to   get any POS you wanted and then around 08 was when  systems just the heavy integration into systems   like started really coming into fruition where you  just you saw your Tech stack Beyond just the POS   at the core right there was all this stuff that  was happening around it so so we learned from Taco   Bell that having different POS systems was was was  a disadvantage so we didn't want to do that um and   we had just put in a data warehouse where we're  back pulling sales automatically and things like   that so that was really the biggest challenge  that we have to face is that well what do we do   from a POS perspective because we we want to get  sales automatically overnight from uh from all the   international sites and do the currency conversion  thing at the data warehouse level and what are the   rules you know with exchange rates and stuff  like that so uh so that was really the biggest   challenge right from a menu perspective sure as  long as we'll give you the PLU numbers you match   them and then you can run whatever you want but  we needed a system that we could I think that the   challenge that you're talking about that's Still  Remains even in 2024 for so many brands in the   world right it just yeah the challenges challenge  never got solved you know it didn't Integrations   got better yeah yeah that but that's still  incremental it is yeah it's very much got it and   you know what after Pinkberry so after Pinkberry  I did um the Veggie Grill thing and I grew it then   went to the Middle East for two years so I um I  had planned to go to the Middle East and I said   you know what I'm just going to become a socialite  for two years I've worked so hard in my career uh   and obviously the cost of living in Lebanon is  is much less right from a day-to-day standpoint   if you're going to go clubbing and drinking and  stuff like that I it's it's about the same right   you part is hard Beirut parties like no one else  I mean the parties there are really really good   um but uh three weeks into it I I learned that I  couldn't just sit around and do nothing and that   was that was very sad for me right because it it  was foreshadowing about like how my retirement   was going to look cuz I knew that cuz you always  dream of you know I want to retire by the time I'm   and then travel the world and do all the things I  wanted to do that I couldn't do when I was younger   but I realized that sure I can do that but I have  to be working part-time so that's when I started   a Consulting gig and I just all I wanted to do is  work like 10 hours a week just to feel like I have   a purpose because I was waking up in the morning  and I'd see everyone exiting the building and   going to work and then in the evening coming back  and I was sitting there and I'm like my life is   worth more than me going to a bar or Pool Club and  just being by myself and I kind of want someone   to be with me right you kind of want a companion  well it's hard finding a companion during working   hours yeah um so I did the Consulting thing and  it was fun uh I worked with a bunch of Brands I   worked with some of the vendors that are here  um just helping them have it be with strategy   or Integrations or whatever 201516 this is 2015 to  2017 but why did you go for NBA in the first place   you know it's interesting so I um so I was doing  really well at veggie gril I've always wanted to   get my MBA and I always specifically wanted to  get my MBA from USC but then I decided I was just   going to be another USC grad with a big uh a big  bill to pay um so I knew I wanted my MBA because I   had spoken to people that had them and it wasn't  so much about the curriculum it was more about   that common theme that everyone kept talking about  which is that you really mature as a person and as   a professional when you go through that program so  I wanted that um and so I went I went and got my   MBA and sure enough it just it made me so much  more mature and confident what dimensions like   what did it add to you which you you know which  you immediately felt was different at at the most   basic level uh it made me realize that no one  has all the answers and um and no one no one is   is really right so it's I prior to completing my  MBA first of all I was too shy to talk to CEOs cuz   I felt that there were just there was something  that was like bigger than than I was right like   it wasn't you know their time wasn't worth me  taking it away from him right to ask a question   or to converse so uh and what that did is you know  it it took that not the fear but it gave me more   confidence to walk up and have a conversation  right and so and so we did that and then and   then it also helped me quite a bit with with like  negotiation and deescalation and stuff like that   you just you learn a lot what what I liked about  my program was that I learned a lot about using   the tools that I already had just developing them  more so it wasn't like they were taking me through   this process for me to become a lemming coming out  of the other end of it I just I became a better   version of of of my lemming um but you know it's  interesting when you say you know what you said   about like the like how you viewed a CEO's time  and you know you know probably your own worth in   the system as a as a role let's say what part of  MBA gave you that confidence that you can like   what what what did it look like was it just the  communication or was it some other realization I   think it was the the re well it was twofold one of  them is that the um the the MBA program although   no one really knows about it here it's like uh all  of our professors were celebrities almost um so   they flew in a lot of a lot of profound professors  from here because it's a weekend course right so   within a weekend you're basically doing a semester  worth of coursework so they would fly in someone   from the US that's you know Harvard Stamford  whatever like these these big time um professors   to to basically lecture you right so so there's  a lot of ins there from them because these guys   are Beyond these CEOs that I was you know what I  mean like these these guys like published stuff   and people listen to so it was it was really that  that uh that kind of gave me the realization that   we're all people right and um and and some people  have you know uh smaller titles uh because they   just choose to be comfortable there and and have a  social life and others like CEOs and CFOs and and   CTO uh um live their life in the office and that's  why they're there right there's I think there's   not very many sea levels that just accidentally  get into a role and if they do then they're not   very good at it so they just the the industry kind  of weeds them out right um but it was basically   that and then everyone kind of saying no one has  it figured out we all read articles and we deduce   what we deduce from articles and that's what we  talk about and sometimes the article is incorrect   so we end up being incorrect so it kind of gave me  the the confidence to challenge things or to ask   follow-up questions and and you get those tools  too right because that's what you're essentially   doing because my EMB program was less about study  this book and then take a test it was more about   case studies and then they completely shred you  apart on this thing that you're really proud of   and and you just learn that it's less about the  answer more about the perspective and it's like   there's so many dimensions to everything like  you could just kind of like a Rubik cube right   you could take it and like and and just and just  turn it and and you have another dimension another   picture of that topic so post 2017 did people  around you notice the change that you're talking   about I don't think so um and and so I don't  know about my peers um we all leveled up right   we just naturally all leveled up and I don't know  if it was the program or the confidence right cuz   sometimes it's less about what you learn and more  about just how you present yourself um but we all   leveled up and I'm very informal um in my Approach  right in the office sure I'm formal and I use big   words and things like that because I you just  feel like you need to to to kind of um to get   whatever you need done but I'm very informal in my  Approach right so uh I think the fact that I'm so   informal I just look like a regular guy that you  know um that just came back from the Middle East   and and and spoke better Arabic what what  happened after like after 2017 well at 2017   I came back here and then uh coincidentally  enough I went back to Universal and so the   cool story about that was that I left Universal  as help desk manager so I started from being the   lowest technici basically doing all the grunt work  swapping out Hardwares and and stuff like that to   running the entire team over there so I was  running uh everything so so when I joined the   uh the theme park was theme park it was like cut  in two things that we had the hard drive uh the   hardware group and then we had the software group  and so I was managing the software group that   oversaw food retail and front ticketing front  uh front of front gate ticketing uh so my team   managed all that and it was one of the there was  we had a lot of really good accomplishments there   um which was awesome but then I I kind of felt  like man I'm I'm GNA have this job forever and I   want to be a director I want to be a VP I want to  grow and if I want to do that I just I don't have   very many years to wait for someone to die because  it's at that point now you're gun in for director   and these people have been at Universal for 30  40 years and so you're like are they going to   retire I don't think so cuz the job's really easy  so you know so I was kind of found myself in that   situation so I knew I had to leave so uh less  than a year into it I got that opportunity to   join Blaze Pizza so I hopped on there you know  uh and and joined Blaze and so you know we did   three and a half years at Blaze and and I think I  think Blaze was really like you joined them while   they were in like high growth phase already yes  right yes so because because for Blaze I think   the growth years were 2012 to 18 if I'm not wrong  or 19 uh a little bit before that I mean um the   pandemic really screwed things up um but uh but  up until the pandemic it was it was still growing   at a steady rate um you know we were doing 70 to  100 stores a year um and you know that was very   few years years right because I think they got  to like 375 stores and then and then the the the   big growth stopped at 375 and that was you know  right before the pandemic was when was when that   we they got to that level that store count and so  we got them through the pandemic and and um then   you know just went on to the next challenge and  how did Dave's happen Dave's was actually I felt   fell into Dave so uh right after Blaze I went  to Kitchen United because ghost kitchens were   blowing up and uh and uh they needed my help on  the it operations side so uh I joined them to run   uh it operations and uh and it was it was a lot  of fun because it's you know ghost kitchens were   the new thing and and I didn't know there was  there was definitely an opportunity for ghost   kitchens to let just explode right because  it the concept of ghost kitchens makes so   much sense for everybody um so I joined them and  then um then you know I ended up the the job was   great and I had always kept in touch with Jim  who's who's our president coo uh and he was at   Blaze so he knew about what I can accomplish and  everything like that my Partnerships with all the   the various cross functional teams and everything  like that and and so um so he had a spot and he   said he always wanted to bring me on and and it  we always talked about it uh jokingly but it just   became a reality one day he called me and he goes  so are you are you ready to join us and um and I   just I was curious and that Curiosity turned into  a job you know a couple conversations later I just   I couldn't say no because the team was so good  and and obviously most of the people that are at   Dave's Hot Chicken are ex Blaze people and so it  was and I loved those guys you know what I mean we   it was they're they're more than just family right  like it's just there's there's so much that we   accomplished together like we we failed together  we succeeded together we pulled late nights   together you know what I mean so uh and it was  just kind of like getting the band back together   and uh and I just I couldn't say no and how was  it how was it the second time you know getting   the same team together I I generally wonder about  these kind of Dynamics because you know when when   a team comes together and accomplishes like  something something like let's say what Blaze   saw as a growth right uh you're doing this for the  first time and you know a lot can just fall into   place and a lot of Dynamics can like look great  but does it look as good the second time it's   it's night and day better you know why because  we all make mistakes we still make mistakes until   this day but when you go through the Blaze Pizza  thing you know the mistakes you made so you avoid   those landmines when you're growing Daves right  and sure you make some other mistakes at Daves   and but it's just the entire team was just more  mature it's kind of like do you golf no okay so   um you know in golf what every your your worst  shot is always your first shot right and if you   take the same shot over again right you you just  you do much better right because you know what you   did wrong the first shot so it's like now you're  swinging the club better so it's exactly like that   like we we do think so much more efficiently with  such fewer mistakes but when you're when you're   advancing at that scale you obviously make other  mistakes right it's like it's kind of like a video   game right you you you you beat the rookie level  now you're in the intermediate level so it's like   so now there's new challenges right and so you  overcome those things and really the team was   very mature to begin with at Blaze right because  their ex cause like the majority of them were CS   Junior people so they grew that brand and and kind  of got raised in that brand so we've all brought   in a bunch of experience right doing what what we  do here at Dave's which is to grow a brand and to   grow it right and to make sure that we don't lose  sight of of why we're here in the first place   what's keeping you excited at Dave's today what's  the challenge you know Dave unless unless we are   already hitting a three and a half year cycle no  no no I'm a year and a half in I'm going to be   at at Dave's for for a really long time I've made  that commitment and personally I want to make that   commitment um because because Daves is a different  kind of company so um first of all it's the best   company I've ever worked at you know companies  talk about culture right having a good culture and   Dave's has they have an authentically good culture  right our uh our Founders are still very much   involved in the business they you know they show  up at the office and you know and they're just and   whenever they show up it's like this loud event  they come in and like everyone's shaking hands   hugging and um our CEO bill is is awesome one of  the best CEOs ever he's I mean his his whole thing   is just hire people and let them do what they do  best uh which is great you know a lot of CEOs hire   great people but then they they have that fear of  fully letting go and letting them make mistakes   and and learn new things and and just kind of  excel where they are so he's very much about that   um and Jim's awesome you know what I mean he's  like one of the best people I've ever I loved   our conversation like you know that's not out  yet but but by the time this comes out I'm sure   it'll be out so yeah yeah I I loved them so so the  team is the team is excellent the culture is great   everyone's awesome everyone's collaborative like  everything that that you read in a magazine about   what a great company looks like like Dave's is the  definition of that that's a that's a that's a big   one it is it is it it doesn't feel like work so  and and that's that's typically when I start kind   of getting demotivated and thinking about leaving  when I wake up in the morning and I go oh man it's   Tuesday I got you know four more days to go how  am I you know what I mean and it's just when I   wake up on Monday morning I'm excited and you know  what Monday mornings for me are not pretty because   we have all of the meetings with the vendors  on Mondays my day starts off with a management   meeting where we're basically uh updating the  entire you know everyone that's manager and above   in the company on on updates in our department  so you know I have to set up a PowerPoint every   morning every Monday morning before 8:30 to update  the company on what's Happening and I've never   woken up and thought Oh God it's Monday I have to  do that PowerPoint and in fact a lot of times I'll   you know you take weekend trips right and and so  you plan to come back on Monday and and and sure   enough when on on those days where I'm on vacation  I get up in the morning during vacation I put my   PowerPoint together I video it so that we can have  you know one of the hosts basically run the replay   and it's not a requirement right it's not no one  requires me to uh during my vacation to update the   company you just if you miss a week then you know  next time you just give a two we update you know   but it's just I naturally just want to do it and  keep everyone updated and so it's just it's great   Leon what what kind of leader are you uh you know  it's um that's that's a very good question so um   I'm I'm in the process of finding out what type of  it's it's ever evolving let me tell you it's ever   evolving and um a big um there was a big Epiphany  for me uh at Universal so Universal was really   good this is my second round so not not when I was  a child when I was an adult um so uh Universal is   very very big on um Rising people from from the  from the theme park into management position so   they have a lot of uh a lot of training sessions  and things like that so I took a like a management   course so I thought you know have an MBA let me  let me just see what these guys are about and uh   and the the topic was situational leadership you  know it it talked about people's willingness to   to do a task and their ability to do a task and  it's like four squares basically and you go from   just micromanaging them to doing what Bill does  which is if they're willing and able to do a job   just let them do it just leave them alone and let  them do it um so I went from so prior to let's   say my MBA program it was very like dictatorial  like this is this is what the vision is this is   what we're going to do we're going to go do it  go do it you know and um i' I've never been a   micromanager but it's always been like you know  just a one-way thing and then after the MBA I I   just learned that people have better ideas than  I do you know so so now I'm more collaborative   but I use my situational leadership skills that I  learned there and it's it's really easy you could   watch a YouTube video for three and a half minutes  and it tells you everything you need to know and   it's the greatest thing that um that that anyone  can get from an insights perspective but I'm very   collaborative now um and um there's there's hardly  any meetings where I say no this is what we have   to do um but but but does it does that get too  soft and Democratic because you know when you are   when you are in the business when you are you know  when you're supposed to have systems not breaking   down or when you are trying to you know gun for  stability reliability in the systems alluding to   you know your parts of your role anyway right so  having ideas is one thing like but does it become   Democratic because I think at times and most of  the times you as a leader have to say hey you   know what this is the path and we'll go we'll go  this way you definitely have to be the tiebreaker   right and there's and there's a place for that  um in in the process right so um so the way I   approach it I it's it's definitely Democratic but  the it's it's kind of um so so the way I work it   is that here's here's what I think we should  be doing what do you guys think and then they   chime in with their stuff and then there's just as  much of me challenging them uh on their response   as they're challenging me on my direction and then  together we get to to to that final decision right   and there have been times where I've said guys  I just my gut tells me that this is the way we   have to go um so let's just go that way but  that's you know if you've built credibility   with your team then they go okay you'll get an  eye roll but you'll get the okay and you'll get   their commitment so it is democratic but it  just it comes back to this is a real decision   that we're making and it's and we're a franchise  system right so it's it's not our money that we're   wasting right it's the franchisees money that  we we could potentially be wasting so we have   to be really careful with that what what pisses  you off the most when you're working with people man um I I'm I'm very impatient with um I'm I'm  very I'm very impatient um when when people are   are are slow um um to get get things done that  that should get should be done um because I just   I just like to I I like to be a wood chipper right  I just like to get through things right and um   and I catch myself I I know that different people  have different capacity levels and So within your   capacity as long as you're doing your best then  you're doing a good job um but sometimes people   get distracted and there's competing priorities  and so the real things that we should be focused   on don't don't really um don't really progress as  quickly as they should right because you know I   have a vision and I'm looking at things from  a 30,000 foot level and I go sure zip tying   cables at a new restaurant that aren't zip tied  correctly is important but you know we really   have this really big project with KDs that has  been kind of sitting there on the shelf for four   weeks and it's much better to just do this cuz  there's going to be a lot more that's going to   be contributing to the business than some cables  being zip tied that are going to be cut anyway and   it's going to look like a bowl of spaghetti like  in two months when something breaks um so it's   it's that you know um I I get impatient with those  things I go what are you thinking you got to focus   here that's that's that that's our North Star so  how do you how do you you know how do you prepare   your like people who are about to work with you  or new people who are you know who was starting   with you do you prepare them with a manual that  this is how you need to work with me um there's   there's no manual it's it's kind of uh it's always  I'm I'm learning about them and their triggers   and their their learning about me and what I  expect and so so it's always this this push and   pull right um and you know we hire good people  right that that come to work with a purpose so   I also don't want to break anyone's Spirit  right if you were really passionate about Cable   Management um then you should pursue the passion  but that doesn't sound that nice but that I mean   listen my whole thing is if I had uh and I'm using  a really bad analogy or really bad example but the   way I run it is that if I'm really passionate  about cable management and my CTO isn't really   passionate about it I mean I'm passionate enough  but not very passionate then you're you're doing   that on your personal time right um and what I  mean by that is that if you spent two hours now   rezip tying cables then um maybe you should give  give an hour to something that really matters at   the at the end of the day where you maybe plan  to watch some TV shows um but I don't I don't   force it but it's you know it's you know the  guys that I work for uh spend a lot or I work   with I I uh I spend a lot of time with them like  learning them and learning what what they like and   what they dislike and and so uh as a manager I'm  more friendly with them and and and I've and I've   learned that and I I it took me a while to figure  this out that um and I think I got this from from   one of the guys I worked with and in in the  past that I'm very friendly and um with with my   team but I can get serious very quickly and they  know that the switch has been flipped so they   get serious with me um so I I have a really good  Knack on on just flipping that switch without them   kind of you know missing the beat on it because  sometimes that that could lead to frustration   too right when you get serious and they're still  joking around with you uh and obviously you you   always have to kind of have a really thin line  in the sand on fr ship versus like we're now   we're now mean business what do you what do you  do when you have to fire someone firing people   is never easy um it's never easy so I I look I  always look for people's strengths right because   that's that's one of the things we have to do as  a manager right because you've assigned someone   a task or given them a specific job or they were  hired to do a specific job if they're bad at that   doesn't mean that they're bad at everything so uh  so I try to find what people are passionate about   what they're good at and and put them there but  sometimes you you don't have a space for that   and so um you have to do what's right for the  business so what kind of what kind of you know   manager or leader are you when you fire people is  it confrontational you know are you still able to   like what what happens when somebody else is  you know not doing right and also bitter not   able to understand what you're saying what do  you do you know I I don't think I don't think   think anyone I fired a couple people in my  um in my career uh I don't think any one of   those people were surprised when they were when  when the event actually took place right um so   there's a lot of conversations that are that  are happening and it's it's not your typical   I'm going to write you up and then I'm going to  suspend you it's it's not that path that I take   I think it's that that path just leads everyone  down the wrong path right I mean you talk to a   lawyer they say that's the absolute path CU that  you don't you never get sued right um but I'm   I'm very involved in listen I really need you to  perform at this level how can I help you get there   and if they choose not to not to to go there or  or or to not work at it then then they've chosen   to exit already right and if they and if they're  on for the ride with you and they can't cut it   then they also know through the Journey that I  I need more I need more I need more and so uh so   it's anticipated right what do you what do you do  to keep yourself nurtured what do you do for your   your own mind your own brain both of them actually  so my my brain is always thinking about work right   that's how my dad was wired and he's never worked  for anyone in his entire life uh and I'm actually   the black sheep of the family because I I didn't  join the family business but uh but I'm always   thinking about work and I found that the only way  to get my mind off of work or to not think about   work is uh is to do something dangerous which is  my hobby um so I have I have a little car a highly   modified little car and I take it down uh Canyons  I do I do Canyon drives with it uh at very high   speeds um so so I do that about once a month when  you say a little car is it a monster truck no no   no it's uh are you familiar with the Fiats the the  124 it kind of looks like a Miata but it's not um   some of some of the Fiat Fanboys argue that it's  a baby Ferrari cuz someone from Ferrari came in   and designed the car but it's like nowhere near  Ferrari uh the price tag is definitely not but   that I've I've noticed that I've always loved cars  right but uh the can ion thing came about um when   I when I first became a director because you have  real problems that you have to solve and they're   not very easy right um and so the way I found  that it clears my head is that when when you're   it's just you and the steering wheel and there's a  canyon on the other side that you can very easily   fall off and end everything you just you don't  think about anything but what you're doing and   so I find that really therapeutic which is really  messed up but I find that really th apeutic uh and   it's it's quite fun that's interesting I'm almost  picturing that I mean please please let us know   if you have a if you have a you know shot of that  we would love to you know put this at this point   uh but and what do you do to nurture yourself  from like knowledge information or like do you   read podcasts you know I I uh I love podcasts but  I I don't my commute isn't very big right it's a   15 minute door to-door commute so I can't get very  many podcasts in or keep up with podcasts uh but I   I do read in the morning every morning I go to the  office about an hour before anyone else gets in or   I try to get in an hour before and and I just read  stuff I read random things um to to kind of get up   to speed on what's happening in Hospitality what's  happening in Airline What's happen you know what   I mean just because the good ideas don't come from  the hospital hospitality industry comes from other   Industries um so that's that's what I do to to  kind of nurture the Curiosity and to keep up with   stuff when you say that good ideas don't come from  hospitality and they come from other Industries   you know that's a that's an interesting statement  like what Innovation you think was you know   actually came from other areas which Hospitality  or restaurant sled up quite late you know the the   new thing in restaurants is like CDP and learning  truly learning what your your customers are doing   and and where else they're shopping when they're  not shopping with you and Retail had that figured   out a really long time ago like really really long  time ago and it's all new to hospitality I mean   there's been companies that have tried to do that  but up until let's say about a year ago maybe two   years ago no one really did it well or provided  any insight where you were looking at real data   right because because a lot of what the  hospitality industry used to do is that   they have a loyalty program which is probably 10%  of their population they make all their business   decisions assuming that that 10% population  comprises 100% um and sometimes that's not true   right you're that's not true right so uh so these  new CDP platforms that you know CDP is a big thing   right you can you can always find out more about  the guest but that requires teams and and probably   seven fig bigger budgets just to just to run those  systems right and and what we're seeing today is   that you just you just have a dashboard and you  ask questions per se like it's it hasn't gotten   there but if you're curious about something you're  can you can very easily find that answer through   those CDP platforms where retail was doing a long  long time ago and we just started doing that now   I you're right I think I I think the same um  about U Dynamic pricing which was a big de   and I have my own opinions on it but I think  uh if it were to come through the way world is   thinking right now I think OTAs online travel you  know Airlines and hotels specifically have had it   figured out long long long time back and they do  it like quite you know with a flesh yeah I think   everyone wants to Dynam Dynamic pricing to to get  that opportunity to make more per per check um   but I I I don't think those it works for Airlines  because there's there's a finite Supply flights   scarcity of Supply is the so same thing with Uber  like a lot of people use those those examples   but in the restaurant industry there's there's  bottlenecks there's no there's no Supply shortage   right uh if you're willing to wait 45 minutes  for your food then then you wait 45 minutes for   your food um but it's not like one you know your  15minute window sold out you just you can't buy   the food anymore so I don't think Dynamic pricing  works for restaurants but I'm I hope I'm wrong   one day I I mean I'm I'm of the same opinion by  the way I also believe that uh dynamic prizing   in the restaurants is being looked at wrong uh  because I don't think it's a dynamic pricing I   think the only thing which is finite Supply in  the restaurants is inventory on on certain days   and certain times right right and if there's  a predictable increase in price for example   a Friday night at a pub can have a 10% increment  in the price which is you know which is known and   it'll still fly right because on a Friday night  that inventory is limited and you know I can still   appreciate you know like a 10% increase there uh  I think that's that's as far as Dynamic pricing   in the rest restaurants ideally should go um you  know having a surge prize I don't really I don't   really get it uh I keep seeing all the debates  and I and I mean I run a tech company right so   technically you know we are we are supposed to  also offer integrate you know with these systems   but you know I am seeing this as a past restaurant  operator as well that when I when I look at it   I'm like you know what just because technology  can do that doesn't mean that we should do that   right I mean it's it's probably anti uh you know  restaurant customer or restaurant you know the way   restaurants operate yeah you know it's interesting  that you made that comment about Friday night it   resonates with me and it makes sense but only  if the restaurant and this is where it's going   to fail right uh only if the restaurant guarantees  that I'm going to get my food in 15 minutes right   because I'll pay 10% more as long as you deliver  Ely some sort of a priority yeah so if I pay 10%   more and I'm still waiting 45 minutes then why am  I paying 10% more you just you know if you want   to raise your price my whole thing is you want to  raise your prices 10% raise it no one's going to   say anything there's you know few people will  drop off because they can't afford it anymore   but there's something that irks people with this  Dynamic pricing because because people remember   prices they go wait a minute I came in on Tuesday  at 4M and I got the same food for $10 plus tax   whatever why is it $1.89 now and and so it's like  people kind of feel cheated right um and that's   not good and then people and then the younger  population games the system right they go okay   well if at 2 o' it's 11 bucks and at 4:00 it's  you know 8.99 I'm just I'm just going to wait two  

hours and I'm going to go you know so it's like  Dynamic pricing isn't always an advant I don't   think it will be an advantage in restaurants but  we'll see whatever yeah I think I I think bless   one to that my opinion also is kind of you know uh  against it if that's that's not strong enough Leon   this was uh this was a great conversation got to  learn a lot about you um and not only you have had   an interesting journey I think I can see um you  know very few people I know can you know own their   like multiple shifts in the career the way you  owned it you know fully and that's amazing because   I can also see that you know that that made you  who you are um thank you for being here I hope   this conversation was worth your time this was  great I loved it thank you for inviting me [Music]

2024-07-29

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