International Peacebuilding Through Science

i am rick lover the program director of the science and entertainment exchange a program in the national academy of sciences and merchant who usually joins us couldn't be here today she's on much taking so much earned rest but she'll be back with us soon hopefully next time i believe next time if she were here she would be telling you that the work of the national academy of sciences engineering and medicine uh is vast in science diplomacy and in particular in particular recently in afghanistan and ukraine if you want to learn more about that i would highly recommend that you take a look at the exchanges event uh safe passage for scientists from january 1st 2022 or sorry january 12 2022. um with the uh national academy of sciences executive director of policy and global affairs discussing his heroin experiences trying to get scientists out of afghanistan so as i mentioned i am rick loverd i am the director of the science and entertainment exchange the exchange is basically if you have a question about science and you are a storyteller uh and you are developing a piece of media a book a movie a tv show you have a question about science you can call us sachio put the info down below neither sachi or i will answer the call and connect you with a scientist we've done this over 3 500 times since we opened our doors in 2008 including so many movies where grown-ups wear capes and tights um we also do graphic novels and video games if you are a stem professional this is the first time you are hearing about our work we're always looking for volunteers so please do be in touch such you can put some contact info for that as well down below and you can find a recording of this show on the exchange's website or subscribe to our content on youtube uh to see these events after the fact you can also subscribe to our collider newsletter uh on our website if you would like uh and so this uh video of the event will be available to everybody who rsvp'd for this email or up on the website later this week um i want to thank our sponsors howard hughes medical institute we also get major funding from the alfred p sloan foundation and so many individual donors like you who gave today if you did give today thank you so much for that it goes right back into this programming so we have two incredible uh scientists or uh science experts today policy experts today uh and scientists uh who will be speaking in just a moment uh i won't go into their cvs that are vast and amazing uh but i will say that bill is the editor in chief of science and diplomacy and he also served as the executive officer officer of the national academy of sciences from 1994 to 2011 where he played a role in the creation of the science and entertainment exchange so thank you very much for that bill and francis is a member of joe biden's council of advisors on science and technology they also both serve as co-chairs of the science and diplomacy roundtable at the national academy of sciences so maybe you can see the connection there to this event um for the q a uh this week if at any point while either of them is speaking you have a question you can put it down where it says q a down here sometimes up here but usually down here um and i will be gathering all of the questions up we're going to be getting to as many as humanly possible during the q a portion of the show um i'll come back on and be the voice of the audience asking as many questions as we can um so then each of the speakers are going to have one minute for some closing thoughts and that'll be the event today so without further ado i want to welcome bill to our stage and thank you bill for uh coming to make tickets taking the time today thank you rick it's a great pleasure to be with you i've been a fan of the exchange uh since it began uh and i think the science entertainment exchange has proven there's a significant overlap between the entertainment world and the science world diplomats have recognized the same thing with their world as they can overlap now increasing every day between science and technology and diplomacy international relations and foreign policy the science and technology revolution is moving incredibly fast uh for foreign policy international relations it creates opportunities it creates challenges and threats it can also be quite disruptive to societies into relations between countries and i think every country is recognizing that they're going to have a chance to be prosperous and insecure in this globalized interconnected competitive world they're going to have to up their game in science and technology so almost every issue that diplomats deal with these days has some component that involves science and technology where that knowledge and expertise is needed many foreign ministries are adding science and technology professionals on their staff science and technology advisors to the foreign ministry the science community has also recognized that diploma diplomats are needed in order to say world-class in an area of science every scientist in the u.s recognizes we have to be more aggressive in terms of international cooperation and diplomats are often needed to help remove some of the roadblocks that hinder and get in the way of international cooperation and science there is a particular advantage of science helping to aid diplomacy and that scientists can talk and collaborate across borders even when governments are estranged and very difficult circumstances scientists can still work together and diplomats have recognized that that can provide some advantages for diplomacy maintaining sort of a a window of communication between strange countries yet we can't expect too much from science diplomacy i often it turns out politics and the short run is the more powerful force in science but i do believe that science diplomacy can create opportunities uh there are challenges and there are limitations i'm going to talk very briefly about two particular cases that i think help illustrate some of the opportunities challenges as well as the limitations uh both deal with countries uh the first with the soviet union in russia and the second with with iran i'm a physicist i was trained by distinguished physicists several of whom were in the manhattan project uh but after world war ii they spent much of their career never serving in government but they were great science diplomats because they spent their time engaged with what are called track two dialogues with soviet scientists trying to ensure that nuclear weapons are never used again talking about arms control of of nuclear weapons and part of that was through a committee of the u.s national academy of sciences called the committee on international security and arms control are still continuing their work today in fact there is actually ongoing a dialogue between russian scientists and american scientists on these issues even even now there was also an organization called pugwash who did much of the similar things there were also institutions that were created one of the most famous is the international institute of applied systems analysis it was actually an initiative of lynn of lyndon johnson and premier cosigan in the late 1960s the institute was created in vienna austria in 1972 this year is its 50th anniversary it was created to allow collaboration between american scientists and then soviet scientists on on world problems which both sides could contribute to and they illustrate that when there is a window of opportunity on the diplomatic side these sorts of track two dialogues can be actually very helpful track two non-governmental dialogues and uh when gorbachev became premier of the uh of the soviet union it turned out several of his science advisors for the soviet scientists who were engaged with the american scientists in these track two non-governmental dialogues and the ideas relating to arms control actually saw fruit in the 1990s with several of the arms control agreements that were negotiated between governments there has actually been very active scientific collaboration since then up until recently between american scientists russian scientists and also the scientists of the former states of the soviet union but we didn't account for the rise in russia of uh autocratic uh uh ruthless uh person and uh and ben putin and now everyone sees the uh the horrific russian invasion of the ukraine and that's having significant implications for the western science community in terms of any type of collaboration with russian scientists a lot of the western scientists rick actually talked about in the beginning are trying to see what they can do to help the ukrainian scientists as well as the ukrainian people uh during this during this war it's also had a big impact on significant scientific collaborations uh cern the big accelerator in geneva eater the nuclear fusion facility in france space missions because it they all involve significant russian collaborators and many of the farmer relations are being cut off with russian institutions although i think the western science community in general would like to at least maintain uh communication with individual scientists so the the implications for science collaboration between the western scientific institutions and russia certainly in jeopardy it certainly calls them to question what the future of science diplomacy uh is in the second case let me just talk briefly about in the case of iran back in the early 2000s both governments the u.s government and the iranian government this was actually very difficult times between the two governments there were not formal relations but they both encouraged their scientific communities through their academies of science to hold workshops and engage with each other talk about issues not nuclear issues but to talk about things like earthquake protection environmental protection public health uh education and so every year up until recently there were three to four workshops that were held each year some in iran some in uh in the united states some actually in third countries and actually there was a lot of engagement and collaboration understanding and trust built through that we were we were told that actually that helped lead just the trust that was built what later became the governmental negotiations uh between the two countries that led to the iran nuclear agreement again though politics reared its head significantly the the hardliners became much more dominant in iran president trump withdrew the united states from the iran nuclear agreement so we can see that at least in the short run again politics is a formidable force can overpower even the best goodwill and trust that's built uh between communities in fact one of the things for both going back to the russia example is both iranian example because there was there were the bonds were so strong between the scientists on both sides in both of these cases it was hard to really understand what the other significant forces were in society that could overwhelm the apple cart in this case and make things much more challenging so science diplomacy can open windows of opportunity for diplomacy uh can create opportunities they can sometimes make a great difference as they did with the track two dialogues in the 1980s between russian and you know between soviet and american scientists but again there are limitations in what they can accomplish and we have to be aware uh of those limitations and uh so now i would like to uh to turn it over to my colleague both francis and i surf together in the state department i think she is a rising star in science diplomacy so if i can have her turn on her uh video she'll talk about a few more cases that again illustrate science diplomacy thank you bill yes bill and i had a lot of fun at the state department uh working on this very topic every day for the us government for a few years and we've continued to work on this um now with our perspective outside of government and as co-chairs of this uh global science diplomacy roundtable um which was mentioned in the introduction um one of the topics uh in science diplomacy that i had the pleasure of working on while at the state department uh together with bill was the topic of how do we re-engage with a country like cuba through science when there is a restart in diplomatic relationships that had been uh pretty much non-existent dormant and non-existent for many many years due to that strange relationship between the countries it was pretty clear that in terms of geographical proximity the two countries shared a lot of environmental and in ecosystem concerns in terms of of weather uh um climate impacts there were a lot of things that in when you look at the issues that both countries are concerned with specifically with regards to science that there was a lot that the u.s and cuba could collaborate on in terms of sharing information in terms of solving problems together that are beneficial to the people of both places and so this was the driver for us to reengage on the science diplomacy level with cuba as diplomatic relationships we initiated during the obama administration and the shape that that took was relationships between our public health um agencies in the u.s and the

public health of officials in cuba to come together and discuss for example infectious diseases that affect the island but also for example um the people of that live in that close geographical region of south florida and how do you start sort of sharing information as as uh warning systems um start to get triggered um there was an outbreak of chikungunya around those years that it was very important to be able to share information scientists to be able to track cases and and see the path of the disease we also [Music] put in place sister park agreements to be able to share information about ecosystem status and restoration one neat example is how the coral reefs of the florida streets are have been heavily impacted by fishing and tourism and the building of ports on several coasts coastal sites and the same ecosystems closer to the to the cuban coast are pretty much pristine and so better understanding what those ecosystems look like to be able to do the work of restoration um on on the florida side those are examples of of ways in which scientists have been able to share information for the benefit of people on both sides right and so you know like bill said um it sounds uh uh like a no-brainer right it sounds easy this should be things that countries should be able to collaborate on because it's beneficial and it's a win-win right but politics and events in history um do do take sometimes precedence over this collaboration and this exchange of information and experts and one of the things that has happened post those those years of reengagement in in cuba on science collaboration was the sort of uh stopping of of that diplomatic exchange between our countries um in the year subsequent to the obama administration um and more recently um in cuba uh artists and and young people took to the streets to protest uh food and medicine shortages and lacks of freedom um and there were many of those young people in the streets that protested um that were jailed for violating uh the law in terms of their ability to protest in the streets and so those uh actions by the cuban government have put even more barriers and obstacles in place for the us to be able to collaborate freely right and so there's a tension sometimes between the human rights considerations that the us must have and its desire to be able to have that free exchange of information and data and knowledge to be able to benefit its people um i think the second case that i'll highlight is is climate change and um i'm sure that you have all uh seen um the latest news on you know what the science is telling us on the window for action on climate change and how that window is steadily closing um despite the fact that we have had the knowledge for a long time um thanks to the scientists that have been involved in modeling the impacts of climate change and telling us that that greenhouse gas emissions that come directly from the burning of fossil fuels are the cause of climate change so we know we know why it's happening we know what the timeline is on those impacts and yet the ability for us to act um has has has not been completely taken advantage of um and so this is one case in which we have had scientists collaborating on assessing the science for decades through the un framework convention on climate change to the reports that that that the un issues through the ipcc the intergovernmental panel on climate change we're talking about over 130 countries hundreds to thousands of authors and contributing experts each time one of these reports that gives us the latest assessment of what we know on climate change this is how many scientists from all over the world collaborate on this to get their governments to take the immediate action that is needed and when i say immediate we're talking about what the latest report is telling us that's that our emissions need to peak in the next three years and the actions in the 2020s are going to be critical in order for us to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees which is the goal of the paris agreement and the glasgow pact of last year and so seeing these scientists come together and collaborate on these reports um they do issue this thing called the summary for policy makers in which um government officials and the scientists sit down and go through these reports line by line to make sure that the science is is accurate and that they can say these things to the public in a way that the public can understand and that the the critical need for action is understood um and yet again sometimes politics gets in the way with the best science with the best diplomats with the best negotiators at the table telling us exactly what our timeline is for action and and what we need to do in the case of climate change we need to phase out fossil fuels immediately now um that's what we need to do um we have been in the united states and across the world unable to take the immediate and aggressive steps um that are needed uh to to um stem uh the changing climate and the warming of the planet and so um you know what are those what are those political considerations that take precedence over science right um it's subsidies to the fossil fuel industry it is the the the influence of of all of these industries that depend on cheap fossil fuels to continue um influencing the economic growth of different regions of the world and so uh you know the ability uh for for us to understand exactly where we are and what we need to do that is thanks to the sciences from all over the world that have been collaborating together on this for decades that tell us exactly what we need to do and we just need to find the political well will to get it done um and so to me those are two examples of when we have the best science the best people at the table we have the best negotiators the best data the best intentions and uh politics many times as bill said will get in the way but these continue to be opportunities and the fact that our scientists continue to talk through the lack of action on climate change we continue to assess the science and we continue to collaborate um through the difficult times between the united states and cuba whether it's because of human rights violations whether it's because we're an impasse because our administrations are now willing to take steps to collaborate even in the areas where we can find common ground scientists continue to collaborate and when times are tough scientists have been there maintaining those ties and those bridges uh when we reinstated the relationship with cuba we would have never been able to do it with the effectiveness in which we did in such a short amount of time if it hadn't been for an infrastructure of collaboration that had been laid out by scientists outside of government for many years to professional society scientific professional societies ngos through the united nations those scientists knew each other and they had built the trust and that is essential essential for that science diplomacy to take place and to really happen and be effective um and so i believe science diplomacy gives us sort of a path through the dark and the light where we're able to come together no matter what is happening on the political end and i very very strongly believe that we have to certainly balance the political concerns the human rights concerns but that there should always be a channel of communication open should we need it to collaborate on the hardest challenges that affect the people thank you i'm gonna then turn it back over to uh rick hello all right i realized one thing i forgot to do my rabbit hole which is kind of important this week because my rabbit hole is the national academy of sciences safe passage fund to help resettled ukrainian scientists and researchers in poland uh the fund was originally set up for afghan scientists and is now being used as a fund for ukrainian scientists 100 of everything you give to this fund goes to help resettle people in poland who are either researchers or scientists so please uh take a look if you do have a chance um lots of questions i'm gonna get to as many as i can uh first i i see karen and brian's questions as sort of opposite sides of a similar coin so brian is asking about uh the idea that um in economic terms staying engaged with russian scientists seems to be antithetical to a lot of the efforts to sanction russia and the russian economy so he wants to know how do these two things exist at the same time and then karen is basically on the other side where she's saying is is severing these research uh ties doing more harm than good [Music] yeah i mean this is a a key question that the science community as well as governments are facing right now i think the highest priority uh for the american science community and european is aiding aiding your ukrainian scientists both those that have been able to lead to go to poland want to stay nearby and find temporary positions for them as well as those who are still in ukraine and trying to continue with the sanctions almost all financial flows are being cut off by everybody to russian institutions the key issue is should contacts at least some contacts be maintained with individual russian scientists uh i'm also with american physical society and they are trying to maintain contacts with some individual scientists they know that there are many scientists in russia who oppose what the putin government is doing others that ukrainian scientists and the ukrainian government would like very much to have total cut off no relationship whatsoever even with individual scientists in russia and so that's uh so that is a is a difference so i think we're focused on the short run helping the ukrainians as much as possible but on the long run and it may require having a change in government in in russia at some time uh at least trying to maintain there are a lot there are a number of russian scientists which have left russia and uh trying to help them and also the scientists who are still there but are afraid to speak out because they know that he's thrown in jail but it's it's a delicate act trying to decide what is the best course of action [Music] uh francis would you like to add to that before i move on yeah i think the that's exactly right it's a delicate balance um i think that suffering all ties um puts us in a difficult position to be able to respond to uh challenges when when they arise um for example i remember when the kobit 19 pandemic uh started and most of the information that we knew about the virus was in china but because of it originating there and chinese scientists had a lot of information they had gathered on symptoms they had samples they could share information that would have gone a long way to help the us prepare in advance of it being then called a pandemic and and the case is starting to rise here but it it at that point even though our scientists were talking and ready to share as much as possible it was very hard to get the [Music] higher levels of our countries to be able to come together um it was a particularly difficult low point in the relationship between china and the united states um at that moment and so not as much information was was shared through official channels um as would have been helpful for us to really uh you know have a handle on sequencing of the of the virus on many other things um shortening those timelines and being able to respond more effectively and share that sharing that knowledge probably with the world that is what those channels of communication that are maintained are able to do when we sever those we are also putting ourselves and everybody else in a very risky situation [Music] so um miriam uh i'm gonna uh change this around a little bit but uh i hope you don't mind miriam asks um you know when we see this so much the outpouring of support around ukrainian the ukrainian people ukrainian scientists and refugees uh uh do you see are there similar efforts being made in african and arab countries is there a double standard uh here what can we do to change that and if it isn't the case what can we do to change the message the messaging that causes that perception yeah i'll just say a few words and turn it over to uh to francis uh i mean it's certainly true in the politics in europe that they were much more welcoming to ukrainians immigrants coming over than they were to people from uh north africa and the middle east uh the uh so that is a challenge for us the double standard of course and the treating of of immigrants uh there has been actually a lot of science diplomacy in the in the middle east uh both but there have been active efforts between israel uh the palestinians and the arab countries in the region it's also had its ups and downs over time it has helped in cases to open windows opportunity for diplomacy but there is a almost all countries no matter where they are africa middle east even the poor countries they all want to increase their capability in science and technology and they do very much look to the united states as the model they would like to emulate so even if they're not exactly thrilled with our government at times they want to engage with our scientists our universities our high-tech companies and that is an advantage i think for the united states in its diplomacy the the fact that it it is looked to as a model at least for what it's created in terms of utilizing science and technology to benefit our society and sorry francis would you like to add or should i move on okay so um darren asks uh to that and uh i think uh bill uh how does uh how do changing administrations impact the opportunities for science in diplomatic efforts [Music] francis would be a great one to answer this and she had to do the transition from the obama administration to the trump administration you know back in 1999 i guess the national or the late 1990s the national academy of sciences produced a report called the abrasive role of science and technology and foreign policy uh here it is for the department of state one of the recommendations was to create the position of the science and technology advisor to the secretary of state that's the office where francis and i were in uh together the uh they didn't uh secretary albright at the time didn't follow all the recommendations in that national academy's report but that's one of them that uh that she didn't implement and the way it was structured in the beginning was to go from one administration to the next it was a non-political fixed term position so it went from a republican to a democratic administration or from one secretary of state to another secretary of state even in the same administration uh there were challenges that were brought in by the uh when the trumpet administration uh came into office so maybe i'll let francis take that part thanks bill [Laughter] uh so rick i think that the the answer is it's very challenging right um the answer is uh you it takes a long time to stand up government initiatives and programs and funding you know it takes acts of congress to assign funding to to it to actions and and then to stand-up programs it takes one stroke of a pen three seconds to do away with them um and and that is something that has a huge impact on on science diplomacy um with a change in administration that isn't um a a science um a friendly administration or perhaps an administration that directly attacks science and and chooses to not consider science in or evidence in decision making and so many things uh were impacted in in the in the between the obama and the trump administration um whether those were um for example of the relationship with cuba where scientists were starting to to have exchanges university to university to explore research that was beneficial to both countries and and training of people that were beneficial to both countries um which led to a better relationship overall on other fronts right and and so that's kind of the key here um can you use it use science diplomacy also as a door um but those doors closed um and in particular the relationship with china became much more difficult um that impacted our ability to respond effectively in the first few months um with the with the kobe pandemic as i mentioned um it is as hard to restart programs and initiatives and collaborations once they've been done away with and once the relationship has been shut down and once you've entered a difficult period between the two countries building that trust back up is a real real challenge and we're seeing that in the climate change front as as we have entered the climate change negotiations with secretary kerry and his team and and yes the world is extremely happy to see the u.s back at the negotiation table the world is extremely happy to see an administration that is a science abiding administration um do they trust that we are going to do everything that that they need us to do in in these four years and that we're gonna get everything passed in congress all the climate action that we need do they do they trust that in four years there wouldn't be another change in administration that would roll back some of the progress made on climate um i think many countries are skeptical and that is a direct effect of having lost trust in a change in administration when you do away with those science bridges so i think to that and uh ali is asking about uh scientific consensus versus a different ideologies and wonders if you have thoughts on pathways to a future in which more scientists are involved in making these sorts of decisions one of the things that the the u.s national academies has a special role in the united states of providing scientific advice to the not only to the american government but also to the american people and uh doing it uh without control by the government over what the academy is saying their reports and having a very i think a very serious process of appointing the best experts whatever disciplines are needed on a study committee and having a very rigorous review process for report is issued a lot of other countries right now are trying to develop that same sort of science advisory ecosystem they recognize that they need to do a better job of sort of getting scientific input not to do not to control decisions made by political leaders but at least get that input to the highest level in government there's an interesting organization that was created uh a few years ago called the international network government science advice and it's actually to help countries kind of develop their science advisory mechanisms within it's got both diplomats and scientists involved and talking about what are the mechanisms that might help facilitate this in countries so it's it's another thing like science diplomacy science advice it's become also a very important factor for governments so uh carla is asking what the implications are of the office of science and technology policy being moved to a cabinet level in the white house and is is this a helpful development and maybe if one of you could explain what the office of science and technology policy does just to make sure everybody in the audience knows that's for francis i can't take it i can take care of that uh the office of science and technology policy or as people affectionately call it ostp is the office at the white house where the president's climate sorry a science advisor sits and that position historically sat even though it was in the white house and this person was a coordinator of all the scientific agencies and their advice for the white house um in this administration was elevated um to the national security council so this person sits at the table with all the other high-level decision makers which was a very welcome development by the science community it meant the elevation of science in this administration to parity with economic security and other considerations for the decision-making process that the president and his cabinet go through it was it was especially important after spending four years where science had been pretty much demoted in the decision-making process um and when we were entering a period where we were still very much finding solutions uh to confronting the pandemic that had affected the country very much and when we were entering a period that required immediate climate action so two subjects that require um science to be integrated into the decision making across government so having this person sitting at that decision making table the the most important table meant a lot to scientific community and i think said a lot about the value of science for this particular white house oh ricky move everybody i was muted um so mindy wants to know if there are implications for graduate student exchanges when you're talking about collaborations uh between uh i assume in this russian students and chinese young scientists are there you know going to be negative forces in those collaborations [Music] it's uh you know in in the big scientific collaborations in which i mentioned like the the cern accelerator in geneva uh there are ukrainian scientists working there russian scientists working there graduate students uh post-docs from both countries as well as american and european so there is a lot of flow in terms of these scientific engagements of students you know after science diplomacy played a big role in the renormalization relations between the united states and china in the 1970s you know after ping pong diplomacy the next thing was science diplomacy where the national academy of sciences opened up an office in beijing to help us facilitate scientific exchange between the two countries and there was a big flow of chinese graduate students come to the united states for their further education a number of them stayed and benefited the u.s in that way and a number of monsters went back to uh back to china so and one of the biggest concerns right now with the situation in russia and ukraine i know of a number of graduates post-docs and graduate students in russia now are trying to find ways to leave they see that their future is really uh they're being cut off from the rest of the scientific world uh and so they have a tremendous problem right now those and trying to maintain uh a place in international scientific engagement so it's it's nothing to compare with what's being the the graduate students and postdocs that are in ukraine right now but it is also it's a significant loss uh for the young students uh in fact one of the things that science didn't talk about people who really know russia well one one area where they would like you'd like to maintain at least some contacts going forward as with the young people the young scientists in these countries so um az asked if one is interested how can one become involved either professionally or during their free time in science diplomacy and i'm going to give you two scenarios that aren't in the question one is a person who is actually out there working in a different field and the other is a young person who is making a choice about their career all right i can start you know what i think that i'd like to to maybe set the stage by saying i don't believe science diplomacy belongs to governments um and i don't think it belongs to any one type of profession um i think science diplomacy is is a field that has been inhabited by scientists in academia citizen scientists that have collaborated with peers across the world uh i think it's it's been the realm of also of of ngos and scientific professional societies of of people just collaborated on challenges online you know um and so i i think that in getting involved in science diplomacy um means getting involved in in the use of science for the betterment of society we're living in a globalized world and in the ways in which we can um expand the benefits of scientists of of science for people um we're already doing the work of diplomacy um that's how we enter that space with a view on on how we are part of the common good right and so i think that there's opportunities to get involved in science policy which are much more formal ways of doing this right so there's scientists that go through specific programs and fellowships to be able to serve as advisors in government and work in government in different roles some of those roles are of international nature and those would be a more formal in-government science diplomacy role but i think that a sign a graduate student doing work doing field work in um you know forestry issues in in in brazil together with scientists on the ground in brazil is doing science diplomacy is building those bridges is building that communication is is working towards solutions to our climate change uh situation crisis and is doing so across languages across cultures um and it's building bridges that ones are established and once that trust is there is what helps us when we take the next step right it is when we reach an impasse that we call upon these people to bring us closer together um so i think that you know viewing science diplomacy from that perspective there's there's a multitude of opportunities uh to get involved from the bench in the field to to more formally certainly in government and i think that the stories we tell about science diplomacy and how it has served our country and other countries well throughout history and and the and the opportunities it still has to maintain bridges and open doors is i think really important so you know i i always uh think of for some reason the international space station always comes to mind when i think of of you know scientists coming together serving the world you know wearing their flags proudly but solving problems every day together and solving sort of a long-term challenge right um and giving us answers and i think that that's this is a very visual story i'm one of those people that gets the alerts from when the space station is zipping by and i go outside to see it and it just represents this this this amazing achievement of humanity to bring people together to work towards a scientific goal um and and we trust that they are they have left aside differences that they are work that they're doing the work for the betterment of humanity um and so that's how i view science diplomacy i think you can certainly get involved through the formal ways but there are always and the people telling the stories about this are also a huge part of the science diplomacy community to me the the one thing i might add both francis and i benefited from a wonderful program of the american association for the advancement of science the organization where the little journal science diplomacy dot org is housed 50 years ago they created a program of fellowships for young scientists and mid-career scientists had the experience of working in government started out just with congress and that's what i did in the 1970s france is obviously more recently now it's a program where they're roughly more than 200 serving on all agencies the us government they serve on a two-year fellowship and they learn many of them go back to their science careers a number of them stay and become professionals in government or they go to non-governmental organizations so it's been a great training ground for increasing the number of trained professionals in a number of our government agencies including in the uh the us state department that the the other thing i might mention is that you know science diplomacy is not just practiced by the the government uh it can happen at some national levels many cities now have people that are engaged with other cities around the world uh georgetown which trains many people to go into the foreign service it turns out many of their graduates now want to go into the private sector because these big private companies have what is their equivalent of science diplomacy because they have operations around the world and many uh non-governmental organizations in washington and elsewhere are engaged so it's something that that people can do serving in government serving it outside of government uh so i think it as francis said it's open to a wide variety of people of interests and capabilities of people so uh rich is asking if you can share some stories that you've come across within the realm of science diplomacy some interesting anecdotes okay well francis is thinking the uh i was involved early on this was before uh before i was in government when i was at the national academies and going with government officials to countries that where the u.s was trying to open up the

various purpose one of which was uh was libya in uh israel palestine egypt and the thing that struck me was we were having sort of dinners or conversations you know outside of formal dialogues with scientists in the countries they would come over and say you know the best time in my life is when i went as a postdoc or graduate student to the university of nebraska or the university of south dakota the united states has done such a fantastic job at being able to train some of the most talented people who go back and help their own countries but also build a strong bond uh with people in the united states and some of the challenges we have right now with with visas and other things i'm afraid we may maybe reducing our attractiveness being a magnet for talent for people from coming around the world to be educated here as well as to work here and also to go back and help their own countries so john is asking uh to what extent do diplomats oh i'm so sorry francis i'm so it's okay um i think there's so many stories uh but i think one that i remember very clearly was um on my first uh trip to cuba on one of these science diplomacy missions for the government um you know it had been over 30 years since anybody from the u.s government had visited the university of havana and they asked me if i would i would visit the university and speak to some some professors it seemed like a very very simple uh uh conversation and it was gonna be sounded like it was gonna be a very intimate setting but i didn't understand the importance of that moment as i was walking up the stairs and and and i walked into the room and it was a full auditorium uh packed with faculty and and students who were so uh excited about telling me how you know they were researching different areas of [Music] you know um environmental research or or computer science and and how they had tackled some of the issues of gender imbalance in in the stem fields and and things they had done um also telling me things that were not going right for them uh very openly in the mic in front of certainly of government officials and didn't have access to to science journals that were essential for them to be able to understand the latest work done and be able to contribute to that body of work themselves um and it just it floored me to see how so many walls broke down around us as we sat there sharing stories of of women in science and the research they were doing and how proud they were of the many things they had accomplished and and we told stories and and we shared accomplishments and and we also shared challenges um and and when i stepped out of that room and left and understood that i was the first person to walk into that room in over 30 years and have those conversations with them it really dawned on me how science had opened that door in a way that um our economic political all the other officers with all the other knowledge and all the other experience being negotiators for decades and decades had not been able to walk through that door but they had opened that door for science and for me and and so it was a very moving experience um and it really for me crystallized what science diplomacy is about so now john wants to know uh to what extent do diplomats want scientists to consider their country's diplomatic goals when they're engaging with authorities of other countries very much that's what diplomats are interested in they're they're working for the national interest and uh yeah yes indeed they they won't understand the relevance of the scientific knowledge on the issues they're dealing with but uh but if you're in there working and i came away from our experience in the state department with tremendous respect for the real diplomats that exist there and the people that are in this in this profession but yeah if you're working in the government and a foreign minister you are working for the national interest i think the national interests of the global entrance have a very large overlap and i think there's much room for countries to work together on the global interest um so mark is wondering how science uh diplomacy intersects with rampant misinformation you want to take that one francis sure i i think that that's one of the areas that science uh seeks to tackle right it is it is getting the best information in the hands of decision makers so that they're able to make the best decisions for their people um we we know we have a rampant disinformation problem around the world in the u.s um and in other places um and being able to share information to make that information freely available um to break down those barriers of communication so that we can you know exchange expertise exchange experts and be able to get the best science in the hands of those that can can use it for their people i think is a very important part of science diplomacy we've reached a point for example in in the pandemic where so much disinformation about vaccines um the origins of the virus things that really were not beneficial to us moving forward and in in the solutions to the pandemic um but our bridges with scientists around the world were crucial to that exchange of information to have the way to combat this information is to get factual information out there um as often as possible by trusted of messengers in the hands of the right people and in the hands of the public so they can make decisions and that is something another um bridge that science diplomacy helped us build so i think we have time to do more oh bill did you have something to add i was going to say just wait there's one quick comment but when i was in the state department subsequently sort of involved in sciences and technology foresight trying to anticipate what some of the uh disruptions and opportunities challenges might be and right now one of the biggest issues that the diplomats are concerned about including governments is on emerging tech new technologies uh you know artificial intelligence big data robotics gene editing you name it because they see that they're threats and challenges and opportunities but in terms of we were doing this a decade ago we totally underestimated the impact of social media and being able to create what has turned out to be the challenges we have with misinformation so scientists sometimes are not a better predictor of the future than anybody else um so unfortunately i was going to try to cram one more in i don't think we have time for that last question but uh you each have about a minute for a closing uh remark uh go ahead [Music] i i wanted francis to be last because she could be quite eloquent and i'm not a i even with all the challenges we're facing in the world right now i still remain an optimist i think that science and technology have potential if we use it correctly to help solve many of the the challenges that our countries and the globe faces and the main reason that keeps me optimistic is very similar to what francis said and traveling around the world engaging with young scientists uh in many different countries they're very similar to the young scientists it's engaged with in the united states they're all idealistic they all want to make the world a better place they're trying to see how they can contribute their expertise uh to doing that so so young people may get lethal make me optimistic even with all the problems the world is facing right now thank you and rick i think i'll close by saying uh to me is science diplomacy is a space that we nurture through the good and the bad times it's a space that we open up for that collaboration for that exchange across borders across political differences across wars across all of the difficulties that can arise in the world so that we have that space to be able to share information to be able to solve problems be able to offer people the benefit of science that they really seek you know if you think about why people trust science why do taxpayers why are taxpayers okay with funding you know the national science foundation and nasa and all it is because they want the benefits of science to make their lives better right they want renewable energy that is cheap and at scale people want cures to the diseases that affect their families people want vaccines to protect their children and protect their families right and the way that we maintain of that flow or that benefit of science for society is by keeping these spaces open the united states can't solve all the challenges on its own we are only going to be able to tackle those challenges if we have that exchange if we have that sharing of information if we take on some of these great global challenges together with countries from around the world um the expertise may be in a place where we haven't really thought of before the best idea the brightest mind coming together with another bright mind can help us confront some of these challenges and so i think that's why we keep these spaces open no matter what the challenges are through the good and the bad times through changing administrations to science friendly and unfriendly administrations science diplomacy is is nurtured through the scientists in academia and nonprofits at the academies everywhere around the world so that we have the ability to come together when the times call for it president bill i want to thank you both for being here today um it's a real honor to have both of you on our stage um and to really showcase your work um i also want to thank everyone who asked a question today i'm sorry we couldn't get to all of them as always we got to as many as we possibly could in particular uh francis start we can get to yours that was the one i was trying to get to at the end um i want to thank all of our supporters of the program especially uh those who joined at the supporter level we can't do these events without you thank you uh i want to thank courtney sloan sachi gerbin jeff fishman amici for technically producing and uh we are off next week but we will be back on may the 4th with de-extinction with the writer of the latest jurassic park movie and two experts in doing crazy stuff like bringing back the woolly mammoth so please uh come and tune in for that and we'll see you in a couple weeks all right thanks everybody bye-bye you

2022-04-30 21:04

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