how can high-tech greenhouses make it possible to grow tomatoes in the deserts but like a lower Tech kind of greenhouse or kind of nut house or whatever would use anywhere between 250 to 300 liters of water per kilogram of produce we are at a much lower level where around the 20 liters we can go even further lower as well so we're one tenth if not even less of the water consumption of what a traditional farmers and how can climate technology help make our food systems more sustainable and resilient technology plays a vital role in building resilient Food Systems while technology to date wildly spreads in more advanced countries we need to reach a point where technology is everywhere in order to reduce those massive 30 40 percent of food that it's wasted that was Majed halawi vice president residents of engineering and construction at pure Harvest Smart farms and reluka Radu portfolio leader of services and solutions at Thermo King you'll hear more from them later alongside other special guests I'm Dominique Silva and you're listening to healthy spaces the podcast exploring how technology and Innovation are transforming the spaces where we live work and play in this week's episode we'll hear from Majid about the Innovative approaches to Growing food regardless of the local climate we'll also hear from Adnan Javed a train about the technologies that are helping to make indoor farming not only possible but more sustainable and finally we'll learn from merluka and m2pu at Thermo King about how the food Transportation sector is making big strides both in decarbonization as well as telematics all in order to help reduce food loss and greenhouse gas emissions to start off we're transporting ourselves to the United Arab Emirates a desert country with very limited natural agricultural resources which therefore needs to import at least 90 percent of its food to ensure access to food especially in times of Crisis the UAE government has carried out several efforts to improve food security starting with the Boost and local food production but given that 80 of the UAE is essentially a desert growing fresh produce seems almost impossible my first guest today is Majed halawi vice president of engineering and construction at pure Harvest Smart Farms he explains how companies like pure Harvest are making what seems impossible possible there are smart forms essentially a technology-enabled agricultural producer what we do is we design build and operate high-tech facilities or high-tech Farms greenhouses which allows us to produce fruits and vegetables locally so in the regions that we operate to do that year round and be able to sell very high quality produce into the local market at a reduced price of comparable Quality Imports right so the way to think about us is essentially in our markets which is predominantly the Middle East and Southeast Asia we are able to produce locally and leverage you know whatever is available within the the local climate to be able to produce things like tomatoes berries capsicums cucumbers or even now doing melons and all that with the use of Technology But ultimately to allow the crops to reach their full potential and be able to do that in a cost-effective manner so how do these high-tech greenhouses differ from traditional greenhouses that we're all used to seeing do they turn out to be more cost effective like with any sort of type of Technology right those different generations of uh degrees of sophistication that exists ultimately what we do and the technology we use is it is still a greenhouse right it's a controlled environment agriculture where you're providing shelter for the crop however the secret sauce here is the extent in which we are able to control all the factors that occur within that Greenhouse we control things from the temperature to the humidity to the air movement to the carbon dioxide levels to you know all the kind of control sensors you can ever imagine within within the facility so this is considered kind of the highest level of technology that exists within the greenhouse space you know some people think of for example vertical Farms which you know like kind of a closed kind of environment so a lot of the same principles exist except we use natural light whereas you know a lot of vertical Farms use LED lights uh and so you know given the the markets that we're in we we you know believe that natural light can be a very good and free resource essentially of energy into our facilities right so we've customized that solution to be able to do that in a very efficient manner and you know you might think well that sounds really expensive well yes it is but then the output of that is also very very high it's a high cost to deploy but it's a very high output and so we've been quite economic in that sense so you've touched very important subject optional agriculture is known to be extremely water demanding in fact I've I've read some reports saying that irrigation used for agriculture accounts for 70 percent of fresh water use and yet majet here you are talking to us about harvesting Tomatoes berries cucumbers and lettuce in one of the most water scars regions of the world so in your view how can technology enabled agriculture or highly controlled environments ease the food water Nexus the important thing to note is what does agriculture use the water for right now irrigation is is one thing there's also irrigation runoff where ultimately the plant needs only as much as it needs to basically fruit and to vegetate but then everything else kind of gets run off then you also have water that's needed for cooling you know humidify the air or do something so that you can cool out the plant Etc and there's a lot of other activities where it's water is effectively wasted right now what we do is given that we can grow in a controlled environment a lot of the water that you're going to be using gets captured and then gets recirculated so the plant only takes what the plant needs all other water is then drained and then recaptured treated and recirculated so we can dramatically reduce the water that we use and also because of the way that we grow we don't need to use as much water for cooling as with other Growers the way that we Benchmark it is the traditional Farm which is not even the lowest Tech Farm avoid just open field agriculture but like a lower Tech kind of greenhouse or kind of net house or whatever would use anywhere between 250 to 300 liters of water per kilogram of produce so think about all right 300 right think about how that one liter of water that you drink or two liters per day the doctor recommends 300 of those we are a much lower level we're around 20 liters we can go even further lower as well but that's roughly so we're one tenth if not even less of the water consumption of of what a traditional Farm is right so we can dramatically reduce the water demand on this and then the reality is that the the Middle East yes it's water scarce but there is plenty of water if it's used wisely and so this is where we position ourselves and then also more importantly is that we're losing a lot of using a lot less water and we're creating kind of economic output as well a lot higher economic output because given the value of the products that we're able to grow so improving crop yields growing food closer to the communities that will consume it and at the end of the day using less natural resources to do so it really sounds like a win-win-win so what's next for Pure Harvest Smart Farms so there's a lot that can be done one is pure just growth footprint of productive capacity right so hopefully this year we're going to be launching an Asian operation so we're looking at building a farm in Singapore and that will be kind of a little bit of a lighthouse for us into the Asian market so that's a big milestone that we're aiming to achieve there and so then expanding our footprint organization that's number one number two is diversifying the crop portfolio you know we're constantly trying new things and kind of saying what else can we grow and then finally which is probably the most exciting is anything related towards autonomous growing right so autonomous growing is effectively the ability for us to be able to grow our food with as little as possible human intervention or ideally no human intervention whatsoever right now still ways away which requires a lot of data capture on the plants themselves understanding how the plants are performing under different climatic conditions uh being able to scout the plants identify things flowers and fruits and whatnot you know having all that data available and then to eventually get to that point so we're very much the whole industry is very much in the early stages of that but that will be kind of the next step of that which one is kind of reducing the human error you know there's ways that you can kind of monitor you know quality of Maintenance of the crop and Etc but also uh reduce the the need for you know these super seasoned experienced Horticultural experts to kind of be everywhere right and then you can capture their mind on a computer and then help the computer how the computer run this and then have them just kind of check in on on these systems right so that's kind of the long long term vision [Music] we just heard from Majid about how Tech enabled agriculture is helping countries like the UAE to improve food Security in a climate-friendly way but such Innovations aren't limited to desert countries all over the world from Tokyo to Sao Paulo the practice of indoor farming is spreading rapidly and with it so are advancements in technology that help create these Precision controlled environments my next guest is Adnan jabid general manager at train Middle East in Africa Adan maybe you can start us off by explaining what these Tech enabled greenhouses actually look like what kind of challenges are you dealing with so the plants during the day during the photosynthesis process you need to have CO2 in a certain quantity right so you have chillers on one end provided by a train and then the chilled water is going to the big blows right now the CO2 sensors are all over that facility so now the CO2 sensors have to speak to the control system wherever there is some variation right so which means the temperature coming out of the chiller has to adjust according to the need and that's where our control offering we use our controllers where this signal can go very quickly right back at the equipment so there is a consistency here to environment that is created during the photosynthesis process for that you need to have ability to run two things very effectively one is your Chiller should be able to change the water settings very quickly and then second is the ability to have the right controls where this message can go to and fro very quickly and that's where the controller and the chiller work hand in hand so there is enough amount always there so essentially we have these high efficiency chillers which are coupled with sophisticated control systems that are continuously monitoring and adjusting indoor Environmental Quality factors and that includes temperature humidity and carbon dioxide levels that's really interesting so that's one side of the story right so that's during the day now let's think about what's going to happen at night so at night you need humidity control because the outdoor temperature changes so then you have a lot of focus to have a certain amount of humidity because they grow in a humid environment right so that's the environment around them then they need to have the need of heating right and that's where the heating and cooling story becomes so important and that's where our role becomes very critical so then the question is how do you provide that humid environment to these plants so for that we have heat pumps which are essentially devices that can generate hot water and cold water at the same time for people who may not know what exactly is a heat pump so why it is so efficient because in this case the product that we are delivering at the customer site is hot water now the byproduct which could you can also take it as a wasted energy would be the cold water so while these equipment of hours are providing hot water they are using the byproduct which is the cold water and that is being stored in a thermal storage battery so that's why not only we are providing a solution but it is also a very optimized solution where we are not wasting any energy so you're in a you're almost at a hundred percent uh utilization mode right so there is no wastage that goes out of this now let's turn to the next step in what can be a very complex food supply chain and that's getting fresh produce from the farm all the way to the consumer know that approximately one third of the food produced is either lost or wasted and that the biggest portion of that is actually fruits and vegetables which are also so essential for a healthy diet the cold chain plays a critical role in reducing food loss all along the supply chain tell us why here's mCP vice presidents of strategic marketing at Thermo King Americas so Thermo King makes a portfolio of what we call Transportation Refrigeration units or trus we don't make the truck but we make the truck cold and so it's a really really important innovation for ensuring the quality of food from the point where it gets harvested to the point where it gets on your shelf at the local supermarket so it's a really really important part of the food chain there's a large frankly unacceptable chunk of food that is wasted somewhere during that process so what gets me excited is Juan we are we've got a set of folks here at Thermo King who are always focused on how do we make it more efficient how do we have more range and frankly how do we make it more reliable and so one of the causes for food loss during this process frankly is downtime of the machine and so our Focus really is around making sure that our units stay up and stay operational and stay performing on a wide range of different products the second piece and this is around the changing of the supply chain right the big part of our business is what we call sort of full trailers and so if I've got a 53 foot trailer and it's full of meat or seafood or frozen vegetables going from California to Chicago that's a big piece of our business the smaller pieces of our business are growing faster as in those Hub and spoke routes as we call them so the routes from a local Farm to a local supermarket that don't necessarily take a 53 foot tractor and trailer but they take a 20-foot truck or a van those routes frankly are I think slowly but surely reshaping the food supply chain to make it more dependent on those smaller vehicles and smaller routes and less dependent on those bigger vehicles and longer routes so M2 it's clear now that transport Refrigeration plays a critical role in minimizing food loss unfortunately it is also carbon intensive we hear the word decarbonization thrown around a lot and I'd love to know what it means to you as well as to the transport Refrigeration industry I spend a disproportionate amount of my time working with our engineering team and our dealer team our commercial team and our product management team talking and thinking about decarbonization as it relates to the transportation Refrigeration industry so it's a it's a subject that is near and dear to my heart I think about decarbonization as the process for removing greenhouse gas emissions from our products and from our customers products as they ship food around the country and around the world and so it's important here to recognize that decarbonization is not binary and so decarbonization is a process that lessens the greenhouse gas emissions over time I see so electrification which means transitioning from fossil fuel based engines to all electric trus is really a big part of that decarbonization journey and I'm sure we're going to talk about it later but let's talk about other Technologies which are also shaking the industry like big data and AI how do you see these Technologies helping the food Transportation sector we have known for a while that data and information were really important it is becoming more and more important so as we talk to our large customers almost all of them are saying I need more information to help me manage my fleet better to help me reduce my expenses better in the next few years when we get to an electrified future and other means of decarbonization that takes on a complete other dimension that says help me manage energy better and so I think it's a huge opportunity for AI and machine learning and those kind of things right because now I have to think about when to charge my units and what routes do I have now not necessarily based on the driver that I have or the product that I have those things are still important and the fleet that I have or the exact unit that I have and whether it's charged or not or what my infrastructure needs will be on that route or not so it's a whole different category that I need to bring into effect and that is enabled and improved by Ai and machine learning and those kind of Technologies and so we are building what we would call Tech enabled products that frankly can plug and play into those kinds of learning Technologies to make the total ecosystem more efficient as opposed to just focusing on on the product so I think you're right on that that's going to be absolutely critical going forward decarbonization efforts and government focus on boosting local food production will help reduce our Foods carbon footprint but how will this impact the cold supply chain what opportunities lie ahead to explain this and more here is rulu karadu portfolio leader of services and solutions at thermocane Europe [Music] the last my delivery will become even more predominant and this lost my delivery comes with some challenges let's say there might be some resistance to this trend because both noise and air pollution can reach quite High limits right so if now all the trucks will need to go in the center of the city and deliver their goods there that comes with some let's say potential disadvantages nevertheless here also technology plays a role to eliminate these roadblocks and make this more let's say human friendly imagine that you live in the center you're in the center of Lisbon and at 4 am out of the sudden you hear a truck and you go there outside and you see a truck delivering fresh strawberries to your Supermarket but you are very annoyed because the noise really woke you up so this is the serious issue and we see that more and more countries are regulating the noise level in urban areas how technology can facilitate this basically our cooling units again automatically recognize when they are entering in this low noise areas and automatically change their operating mode from high speed to low speed in order to reduce the noise level and because they are equipped with these telematics they can recognize the units where the truck is and send an automatic command to the unit so there is no human intervention and it's similar with the air pollution area so the LED zones your unit can detect when it is in an LED Zone and then it changes from diesel to Electric so such technology advancements facilitate the speed of this centralized food delivery or food Urban farming and implicitly encourages growing this food closer to the population otherwise these roadblocks might only prohibit us from going into this direction it's so interesting that you brought that up reluca I mean after all this is the healthy spaces podcast right and we've been talking extensively about how we create environments that are healthy and productive for people and you just brought up something that people don't often associate to but it's the fact that an increase in last mile delivery and more trucks coming in to distribute more food if not done correctly can indeed lead to higher levels of outdoor pollution and Noise and that is a great segue into another big topic which is the electrification of Transport so in your viewer Luca how realistic is that figures showed that by 2030 we will have around 50 to 55 VP units the VP units are the small ones are going to be fitted on electric vehicles so all the small vents uh majority of them will be electric we also know that around 30 percent of the trailers will be electric so I think electrification is here it's something that we cannot omit anymore we see that this is coming a lot from the environment there are more and more regulations then there is the carbon footprint again a lot of Regulation a lot of targets about carbon footprint all of these are our forces that will influence the adoption of electrification and we see also in our industry so all our units we see there then more of those are electric so we I think when you look on electrification you need to have an electric means of transportation or commercial vehicle and there we see more and more in this direction once you have an electric vehicle you need to have an electric unit and electric refrigerated units are coming more and more but let's say you have the commercial vehicle then you you have your electric Refrigerated unit and this Refrigerated unit needs to take the power from somewhere so then you also have a power source and then very important all the data about that battery needs to be displayed somewhere so we we are proud let's say with our tracking e which is uh the dashboard that gives you all the insights that you need in order to monitor the status of your battery but also to be alerted if there are any issues with the battery state of health for example and also allows you remotely to control your power source when it comes to the power source we are proud of our new entry let's say in in this space which is the Excel powered product it's a technology that you can recuperate the energy from the actual movement of the trailer and that energy is captured and stored in our energy pack battery and then can be used to power the refrigeration unit so imagine there if we are talking about waste what a great technology of course and I mean connecting this to our previous discussion about last mile delivery right and more and more smaller trucks delivering food I mean when they're operating in these Urban environments there's going to be a lot of start and stopping I think you know having a technology that is able to recuperate that energy and then reuse it it's fantastic thank you for sharing that with us uh reluca I'm ready for my last question are you let's see all right I'm going to appeal to your imagination and I'm going to create a scenario all right cop 28 is being held in Dubai you have been invited as an expert in this field to attend and you are suddenly informed that all of the world leaders are in one of the conference rooms they were waiting for this big presentation someone Taps you on the shoulder and says reluca we need you they push you onto the stage you are now faced with all of these world leaders and you have less than two minutes to take your Spotlight and and tell them what you have to tell them so you're on the stage for Luca what do you have to say to our world leaders I think what I would say is that technology plays a vital role in building resilient Food Systems while technology to date widely spread in more advanced countries we need to reach a point where technology is everywhere in order to reduce those massive 30 40 percent of food that it's wasted and in my view there should be three areas of focus first of all is to raise awareness around how technology can impact the food system from growing food harvesting food to transporting food secondly is to promote technology to make it an alley in these food waste food loss Journey and third which I think is highly highly important is to make technology accessible to everybody by subsidizing for example the access to technology I can give you just two examples one it's from Italy where they have an industrial 4.0 program where the Italian government subsidize the equipped refrigerated units with telematics Device under the condition that this device can remotely control the temperature inside the Box so the Italian government gives money to all these companies that are investing in making sure that if something happens inside the Box they can control the temperature hence reduce the the food spoilage and similarly there is a regulation or a subsidy like this in in Germany where the usage of telematics device is encouraged by the government and subsidized so this would be my message promote raise awareness and make technology accessible because it can only contribute to reducing the spoilage that we are all concerned about big thank you to imagine at none and to Andrew Luca for joining me on today's episode to discuss the Technologies and Innovation transforming how we grow and move food and thank you for listening if you want to find out more information in our conversation today make sure you check out the show notes and remember to rate and review healthy spaces in your favorite podcast app join us next time when we'll be finding out how to build more resilient Healthcare systems
2023-07-28