in 2022 the United Nations General Assembly passed a historic resolution declaring that everyone on the planet has a right to a healthy environment that includes clean air both indoors and out but creating healthy spaces while also achieving Energy Efficiency and sustainability goals is no easy task however that's not stopping some of our greatest thinkers and Industry leaders from trying so I started wondering okay what am I actually breathing so I started Googling that trying to find information on the air quality I was breathing in bruises and I found out two things the third thing is that that was not much information on this subjects and the second issue was that when there was information it was very complicated to understand one thing that I think is really important to consider is the relationship between the outdoor air and indoor air so everything that's happening in the outdoor environment is having an impact on the indoor environment and actually the EPA has found that indoor air pollutants can often times be two to five times higher indoor doors than outdoor levels I think there's more that we can do around identifying more of these contaminants in the outdoor air and comparing them to indoor air values and making a better decision we have Solutions now that can do that and that's really critical in a system like this you don't want to be making manual decisions based off of constant readings yourself you just heard from Pierre founder and presidents of air Seekers Sarah carrots the director of Applied research at sensor for active design and Jeff Wiseman the indoor air quality portfolio leader at Train Commercial I'm Dominique Silva The Innovation initiatives leader at train Technologies and you're listening to healthy spaces the podcast that explores the world of Environmental Quality both inside and out in this season premiere we'll be hearing from my guests about the work they're doing to make our homes places of work schools and the greats Outdoors cleaner and safer in this episode we'll find out how citizen science campaigns are helping the residents of Brussels to better measure understand and act on air pollution we'll also learn about strategies that building owners developers and facility managers are adopting to keep their occupants safe and finally we'll discover how emerging and existing Technologies in the HVAC space are helping buildings become healthier and more efficient [Music] my first guest Pierre is the founder and president of the belgium-based organization called air Seekers there in French by recruiting the general public to help collect air quality data he was able to effectively measure the level of pollutants across Brussels and provide city planners with data-driven solutions to create cleaner and safer environments but what prompted him to take on such a mammoth task I started getting interested in this air quality issue at the end of 2015 when the dieselgate Scandal started so when the U.S government found out that Volkswagen was cheating on their emission communication and then not only Volkswagen was culprits that were basically all the the car manufacturers so the conclusion of this Scandal was that we were breathing air that was a lot worse than we thought so I started wondering okay what am I actually breathing so I started Googling that trying to find information on on the air quality I was breathing in Brussels and I found out two things the third thing is that there was not much information on this subject and the second issue was that when there was information was very complicated to understand because it was a lot of acronyms a lot of jargon a lot of I don't know web pages not displaying properly so I thought okay if this is not available maybe thanks to Citizen science I can create basically this data I can create this information so that not only me will have access to it but also other citizens because of course the frame was for everybody so that's how you started you have me really excited talking about the data and what you learned from that data but before we dive into that pollution is not something that we often see or feel unless it's a particularly smoggy day so before we go into the detail about the data that you collected explain to our listeners what exactly were you measuring and how were you doing that what technology were you using we measured particulate matter which is one kind of air pollution and NO2 which is another kind of pollution so particular matter is basically a little bit like sand very thin Sands to give you a comparison one let's say grain of particular tomato its diameter is 20 times smaller than the diameter of a human hair so it's very very very smooth the way we measure the concentration of particular tomato is by using basically a little device equipped with a laser system that calculates the number of particulate matters insights given amounts of air and then you can say okay we have this amounts of microgram of particulate matter in one cubic meter of air this is too much this is okay we have a lot of air pollution or not and the second thing was NO2 nitrogen dioxide which is a gas mainly emitted by road traffic and the way that we use to monitor that is what we call diffusion tube so it's basically like a plastic tube the size of of a pen inside this tube there is something a little bit like a sponge and this sponge gets the air that is surrounding the the tube and then you send this sponge to a lab and the lab says okay during one month for example there was this amount of NO2 per cubic meter of air and again this is too much this is okay this is acceptable this is a scandal so that's what we did that's what we're doing in general you mentioned that you you kicked off air Seekers essentially at the beginning the covid-19 mean pandemic you were able to overcome those challenges and really get citizens and I believe a lot of schools as well to get involved in this research project but you were effectively measuring air quality during a period we were seeing less road traffic right because people were stuck in their homes so how did that influence the data that you collected and what did you learn during the pandemic there was less road traffic less in the street so of course a decrease of air pollution I mean I think this was not a big surprise because of the of the context what was quite surprising though is that even though there was this big decrease levels of air pollution that we monitored were still depends where but in some places there were still a lot small above the wsos guidelines and in some places even in schools we were two times three times four times Above This who guidelines during the lockdowns so this shows how much air pollution there is in city and how much work we still need to do how many measures we still need to put in place if we want to guarantee cleaner air to citizens in in big cities let's talk um a little bit about what you did with with all of this this data so what were some of the recommendations that you and your team came up with we have a few I think the main one that would have the the biggest impact is what we call the low emission zone so it's a certain area in which only the least polluting vehicles are allowed to drive and this scale if you want evolves year after year so in Brussels started in 2018 only the very old cars and vans were forbidden at the beginning now a bit more of these vehicles are forbidden and the objective is to get rid of all diesel vehicles by 2030 and all thermic engines by 2035. this is very efficient way to to clean the air because you only at the end of the day you only have electric vehicles and we see for example in London where there is a lotion that is quite ambitious we see that inside the low emission Zone concentration of NO2 decreased by 26 since the the implementation so it's a lot it's really a lot what we are asking in Brussels is to move forwards faster we would like to have a zero emission zone so only electric vehicles allowed in 2030 instead of having to wait until 2035 to give you an example we are also asking for what we call School streets a school street is a street that passes by a school that is closed to road traffic and we know as well that this kind of measure allows to to decrease strongly the NO2 concentrations again we saw that thanks to the school's treaty had you can have an NO2 decrease by 23 percent right in front of the school I'm not going to give you all the measures you have two examples of the kind of things that we ask about less cars less tricks less spans in cities more bikes more working more public transport and for the vehicles that remain in our streets for these vehicles to be as light as possible as small as possible and electric because an electric vehicle is definitely a lot cleaner than a diesel a gas or a petrol vehicle that's for sure we have this idea that big cities can't change because it's too complex right and you've kind of given us inspiration to show that actually there can be positive change and if it can happen in big cities why not small cities as well you've shared with us at least two ideas right that came out of the the air Seekers project I know that some of your recommendations have already been implemented with success in some municipalities but let's imagine a future where all of these policies and greens Technologies are implemented at scale so let's be ambitious right it's 20 30. what does brussels look like to you in 2030 for us the air Seekers I think the main thing would be in a city in 2030 where breathing doesn't make us sick I think this would be amazing already if we could get there and then the city that is a lot Greener literally Greener so with more trees with more flowers with more plants bristles is a is a beautiful city but to be honest it's not very green I mean you have big parks but in general it's quite a gray City so it would be amazing if it could get a little bit uh Greener and I would say the third thing if it could get quieter by 2030 so less noise especially from road traffic in my opinion that would be amazing work has Helena lights on the reality of outer outdoor tea across Brussels but the reality is the air we breathe indoors may be two to five times more polluted and this is of particular concern because most of us spend about 90 of our time indoors so what are some techniques that building managers can adopt to ensure their spaces are as healthy and productive as they can be to answer that I spoke with director of Applied research at the center for active design Sarah carrarat but how exactly does her work help building managers [Music] so we helped to create standards for buildings to ensure low levels of contaminants which can reduce allergies and reduce risk of asthma and another big part of my job is reading I read a lot specifically Public Health literature and then I then take that as a team and work across our internal groups to transform those findings into actionable solutions that can be implemented by the real estate industry to promote Health one of the biggest ways we work with our partners is through a healthy building standard that's called fit well it was actually created originally by the Centers for Disease Control and the general Services Administration who still we work with closely as research partners so one part that you mentioned was around reading all of the new research coming out there I'm I'm curious about what you've most been reading about lately that has you excited so what fields of research are you currently looking at in the context of healthy and sustainable buildings so I'm really excited about how to bring the conversation around health and sustainability together through a co-benefits approach so what that means is looking at where certain interventions have an impact not only on health promotion but also on mitigating the risk of climate change one example of this is a researcher out of Harvard School of Public Health Dr Adele Houghton and she's really taken it upon her work to focus on looking at built environment interventions that positively impact climate change equity and health outcomes so one intervention can have this huge ripple effect that's not only impacting sort of one area but also so touching on many different outcomes that are really important from a societal perspective and can have a massive impact and there's a tendency to sort of focus on your specific area and that can often lead to an inability to see sort of the bigger picture and bringing together those conversations is something that I think is happening more and more frequently and really gets me excited as someone who sort of works across disciplines and really values that interdisciplinary approach to conversation and research and I think it really will help us move the needle to be able to go from just focusing on those interventions that impact health and moving it moving it forward and be able to broaden the impact earlier on in the show we spoke with another one of our guests about research which is being done on the impacts of outdoor air pollution in cities and urban areas Pierre talked a lot about increasing levels of fine particulate matter nitrogen dioxide and actually not long ago there was a study by the University of Washington which highlighted that there are many states in the U.S which are seeing concerning levels of ozone in the air so it is pretty daunting when you think about all of these pollutants and contaminants that you're breathing in just by stepping outside so Sarah do you think it's we're better off living indoors forever one thing that I think is really important to consider is the relationship between the outdoor air and indoor air so everything that's happening in the outdoor environment is having an impact on the indoor environment and actually the EPA has found that indoor air pollutants can often times be two to five times higher indoors than outdoor levels so I guess my short answer is no uh we're already spending 90 of our time indoors but I don't think that we need to stop and join the outdoor spaces I think we all know that that's very important from a mental health perspective a physical health perspective that said I think it it introduces some real important Concepts around how by mitigating outdoor air pollution we can also improve indoor air quality and why sort of taking that broader perspective that we're talking about before is so vital the other thing I'll know is that you mentioned nitrogen dioxide that's something that I think has been in the news a lot recently um with an indoor air quality because of the relationship uh to gas stoves and and how gas stoves can create high levels of nitrogen dioxide indoors so I think we're encountering similar contaminants outdoors and indoors and by taking sort of that more holistic approach to what are the different ways that we can reduce those levels in both areas will really go a long way in making sure that we can occupy outdoor and indoor spaces in sort of a healthy and health promoting way what would you say are some of the key strategies that building owners could be looking at and maybe let's start with existing buildings that's a really great point that it is a different calculus When approaching existing buildings versus new construction and we know that existing buildings and retrofitting those existing buildings is one of the most efficient things that we can be doing uh so that is something that our standard was created with existing buildings in mind so in that thinking one of the uh real areas that existing buildings are able to go into head first is really around operational policies so making sure that when it comes to an HVAC system that that HVAC system is being well maintained is being optimized for the ventilation filtration that's needed within a space another area is really around looking at the spaces that are available and seeing how they can be adjusted to promote health so one strategy that we like to talk about a lot because it has such a important health impact is around lactation rooms so it's something that uh oftentimes might not be the first thought for how to use a space but we know that ensuring that new moms that are coming back to work have access to that space can impact not only them from a mental health and physical health standpoint but also um their newborn and then the last thing I'll say is really around if a developer owns a whole building looking at how additional Greenery can be added that's something that has a huge impact on not only making sure that the reviews of Nature and it's a pleasant place to sort of exist but also can reduce things like heat island effect especially in cities and make sure that there's proper shading and ensuring that ultimately if every building were to do this it could have an impact on on Energy Efficiency and energy use so Sarah can you talk to us about some of the applied research which has you excited about the future of healthy buildings are there any specific Technologies which you feel are helping pave the way to a more sustainable living indoors we know that HVAC systems present a real opportunity when it comes to maximizing efficiency and they're the key to making sure that indoor air quality is is being maintained and that we're supporting the health of occupants so one area within this space that is seems really basic and it's not a fancy technology but it really is around maintenance maintenance can have a huge impact when it comes to making sure that a system is running efficiently and that the HVAC system is operating as it's meant to operate so this in itself can have a huge impact on Energy Efficiency as well as health the other area is really around there's been some research out of the Department of energy that's looked at technologies that help to ensure that Energy Efficiency goals and indoor air quality goals are being considered at the same time and strategies that have been found to be really effective include ventilation scheduling fine-tuning and maintenance again of the HVAC system envelope ceiling implementation of green cleaning policies so again pretty basic things but that can have a huge impact and then one area that I know has been talked a lot about in this industry is around demand control ventilation I think there's still a lot of room for growth within this space but the department of energy has also found that using demand control ventilation can achieve Energy savings that are about 18 across U.S climate zones so using this a mix of new technologies and old operational consider operations but implementing them in an effective way I'm very hopeful about the research that's coming out about the impact of bringing these two elements together throughout this conversation we've talked extensively about Technologies and as well as operational efficiencies some low-hanging fruit things that people can easily look at and do it's a day I want you to imagine a future and it's not that far away so let's imagine it's 20 30 a lot of these recommendations and you know strategies are really being put into practice how do you envision a city like New York two main themes come to mind for me one is a Greener City I think that in traveling to some other other cities um one example that comes to mind is uh New Delhi in India is very crowded City Lots going on but the way that Greenery is just naturally integrated throughout that City it blew my mind and I think that there's a lot that New York could learn about how it doesn't need to be a full-on park so things like green roofs green Walls I think there's progress in this space um but definitely have have a ways to go and then the other theme is bike infrastructure I think that there's still definite room for improvement in making sure that there are accessible routes across different neighborhoods and they're spread out equitably across the city so I think things like bike lanes that are protected and also um Bike Share making sure that that is uh spread across the city in an equitable way is something that I hope for in 2030 I think it has such widespread impacts [Music] Sarah's work is helping building owners and facility managers to better understand how to maintain healthy indoor environments while also promoting the co-benefits for The Wider community and my next guest is working to deliver more efficient and environmentally friendly HVAC systems that help to improve air quality while also meeting efficiency goals here's Jeff Weitzman trained commercials indoor air quality portfolio leader telling us how he has seen attitudes towards air quality management evolve in recent years one of the very few good things that came out of the pandemic was much more awareness around indoor air quality and exactly what is in our air we've since moved on past the pandemic viruses and bacteria may not be uh the number one priority anymore however awareness of CO2 and vocs and other gases in the air is still pretty high and the impact that has on occupants within the space going forward I think having the ability to monitor what's in the air and being able to react to what's in the air is important and something that we are looking at and ensuring our equipment has the capability to respond to if and when needed so ensuring that we have the capability to increase filtration making sure we have the controls and sensors in place so if we see CO2 increasing or vocs we'd know when to bring turn on ventilation and bring an outside air and and bring in nice clean air and exhaust the the contaminated air and then we continue to explore other technologies that may be able to reduce some of the the gases and harmful contaminants in the air more efficiently to ensure that we can maintain this type of operation I guess in the long term you talked a little bit about filtration as a mitigation strategy another mitigation strategy that we hear a lot about is ventilation mainly increasing ventilation right I'd love to talk to you a little bit about this because during the pandemic but also Beyond we heard a lot of building managers who were following the guidelines increasing their ventilation rates what does that mean exactly Jeff there are standards out there that Define how much outside air you must bring into your space and they may vary based off occupancy levels and so a commercial building that is unoccupied you can typically turn down your ventilation rates and and bring in little to no air however as occupancy increases you need to start bringing in more fresh outside air and in turn you're exhausting the contaminated indoor air you know with the pandemic we did see more focus and attention to ventilation rates and we started to see some proposals to update uh ventilation rates in spaces if you live in a space or a location where the outdoor air is clean there's absolutely beneficial to bring in that outside air that's not Universal there are some large cities where the outside air uh is pretty heavily contaminated and so it's really region or location specific on when you want to adopt a ventilation strategy you don't want to unintentionally introduce contaminants that may be causing other issues in the space and so you know there's not a universal answer but having the right sensors and and controls in space can help you make that decision I love how you pointed out that obviously we're trying to exhaust as much as we can those indoor air pollutants that have been created but we also need to be paying attention to what we're bringing in some building managers facility managers might argue that increasing ventilation is extremely inefficient what are your thoughts on this yeah I have heard feedback from customers that it can be costly to bring an outside air and it's really Regional specific as to what that cost may be and and you know if you live up north and it's the winter time and the air is very dry and it's very cold it can be costly to heat the air to a comfortable temperature to bring it into the space and also add humidity uh to the air as well and the same can be said for hot and humid environments it is costly to to cool down the air and to dehumidify the air as well there are challenges with bringing in outside air there is a large area of the country where it may not be as costly as it is on the more extreme hot and cold areas if it's a nice sunny and 75 degrees outside and humidity is not very high it's actually really efficient to bring in that air because it might be exactly the conditions that you're looking for in the space are very close to it again it's going to vary day by day and by region can you talk to us about some of the Innovations um that train might be doing in this space are our control systems today able to help customers optimize for air quality and efficiency they are and I think we've had that capability in the past however I think we have evolved our strategies in our Technologies over the last couple of years so previously a lot of focus on temperature and humidity that really drove our decisions on when we wanted to bring an outside air and and when we did not with more awareness around the contaminants we talked about earlier CO2 and particulate matter and vocs I think there's more that we can do around identifying more of these uh contaminants in the outdoor air and comparing them to indoor air values and making a a better decision we have Solutions now that can do that and that's really critical in a system like this you don't want to be making manual you know decisions based off of constant readings yourself there's control systems that can do the math for you and help improve the efficiency of the space while also controlling the air quality in the space thank you so much for that Jeff for my last question I'm going to appeal a little bit to your imagination and the imagination of our listeners let's imagine that 2030 if all of these Technologies get implemented at a scale that you would like to see how do you envision the future I'll start with the outdoor air piece first so I you know I live in Tampa Bay a lot of people are moving to the Tampa area right with remote work options available I think we're one of the highest growing States in in the U.S
that's putting more cars on the road that's putting more pollution in the air Outdoors so in the future definitely ways to control that I know there's more efficient vehicles that are available think about the water waters you know key to Florida right you know clean water is important you know for our community and our state but back to the air bringing that back inside we talk about the energy you know the ervs the the energy recovery ventilators seeing more adoption not only in the commercial space I think there's a huge opportunity in the residential space can we take some of these Technologies and start to incorporate them in all of our indoor spaces to not only ensure clean indoor air quality but also help reduce the energy consumption of all of our buildings residential and Commercial ultimately that's going to lead to fewer carbon emissions and cleaner air I think it's it's a you know a big happy Circle right if we can do it right all the way around I think it's just going to continue to get better and better you know 2030 I think yeah we've got an opportunity to really make a big change here and improve the space and hopefully you know we're in that great Direction by 2030. so many great insights from Pierre Sarah and Jeff there thank you to all of them for joining me in today's episode and thank you for listening if you want to find out more information on our conversation today make sure you check out the show notes and remember to rate and review healthy spaces in your favorite podcast app join us next time when we'll be taking a look at the Technologies influencing the homes of the future all while helping us Thrive inside of them
2023-06-19