Future of leadership in tech: What leaders need to know about digital transformation
Recently, we've had some situations with our internet and I feel like the whole country was a sandbox here. We took 10 person organisation to a company that was IPO'd at around 2 billion. Digital transformation is a triad. Uh, it combines your people, your process and your technology. So it starts with people. Any transformation starts with
people. In an established organisation, like PepsiCo, Nestle, Coke, Unilever, change takes a long time to cascade down. Certain decisions are made at, uh, the HQ level. How do we localize that change? How do we bring acceptance of that change? The, The people on the other side of the spectrum, on the dark web, they're one step ahead of us. It's just a matter of time that you will be hacked or
you will face some kind of a cyber threat or a cyber security attack. It's going to happen. Um, and it won't be pretty when it does. Hi, welcome back to another episode of She Talks Business with me, Khizra Munir, your Karachi host, and today's guest, Sadaf Shaikh, who is CIO of IBL Group. And who's been in the world of digital transformation for the past 15 years. So we're just going to jump right in and see if we can pick up a few pointers or maybe a lot of pointers from her playbook.
Salam Sadaf Thank you so much for being on the show. Walaikumsalam. Lovely to have you guys invite me over here. Thank you. Excited to join you. Thank you so much. I'm just going to jump right in. Um, Sadaf, you have such an impressive career. Uh, currently, uh, CIO of IBL Group. Uh,
former chief IT officer at PepsiCo, head of IT strategy at JS Bank, CIO at TPL Insurance. What does a CIO do? An excellent question and one I think that doesn't really have a cookie cut kind of an answer. A lot of people have this misconception and they keep confusing the role between a CIO, a CTO and a CDO.. So it's not Chief Information Technology Officer, it's Chief Information
Officer. And we live in an age which is so digitized that data is the new oil, as they say. So primarily information is everywhere. We're consuming it, we're producing it, we're using it to make decisions. So the Chief Information Officer is in itself a very transformational
kind of a role. Uh, that is, um, you know, sitting right at the fulcrum, right at the hub. Connecting business, connecting, um, people on the marketing side, connecting commercial technology, um, essentially, you know, the hub where everything comes together, because whether you talk about processes, whether you talk about initiatives, whether you talk about business objectives. It's all decisions based on information. So, um, I feel that, uh, the chief information officer's role is to be that guiding light that provides, uh, the company with the right direction and supports the CEOs and the CFOs in terms of making right decisions based on the right information, of course, with a strong base of technology, uh, at the forefront of it. So, for example, um, in the context of a manufacturing company, um, you know, the core is the manufacturing. For example, my role with PepsiCo. Uh, it's primarily a
manufacturing company, but, uh, In order to sustain that manufacturing, in order to make that company's business viable, uh, there was a lot of marketing technology, there was a lot of commercial tech, there was a lot of HR tech that was integrated into, uh, the entire ecosystem. So my job was to make sure that we take all the manual processes and all the work that got done on the shop floor, on the, you know, the factory floor, and transform it digitally. Ensuring that information flow is happening in real time from wherever manufacturing is happening right over to not just the local head office, but across the region and globally. So ensuring that that data pipeline is in place, ensuring that that process automation is in place, ensuring that the controls and governance aspect. Uh,
are in place so that you know, whatever gets produced is actually manifested and transformed in a manner where it can be utilized for better decision making. It could be utilized for process optimization. It could be utilized for competitor analysis. All of these things which a business would require in the day to day scenario. Um, you know, especially at the boardroom level, um, being able to partner with business in that sense that, okay, we're not just automating. We're automating with the intent of either reducing cost on increasing revenue. We're
automating with the intent of providing real time visibility into operations and real time visibility into effectiveness of the salesforce. We're operating, um, in a scenario where data is coming in from our partners, suppliers, franchises, distributors. Combining all of data into a centralized hub and ensuring that the right reporting is happening to the right audiences.
So essentially, uh, that is how I would define my role. And that is how the transformation aspect also comes in. So just moving away from traditional ERP systems to more advanced, uh, technological interventions using AI, using data warehousing, uh, using even, um, large language models to ensure that business has what it needs at the tip of its fingers, literally, you know, just a click away from whatever you need. So that is my perception of, you know, what is real CIO should be aspiring for in terms of effectiveness in terms of being real and true business partner in the sense.
So that's really interesting in terms of like the sort of the procedural way how this goes about. And when I was thinking about your role and the kind of companies that you've worked in. This is. Apart from it being sort of like technology driven, it's also very people driven because you're working in these corporate institutions where there are people who've been around for 20 years, for 15 years, there are people older than you who've been around for the longest time, and they're used to working a certain way. So I feel like your role probably requires not just you knowing the technology aspect of it, but also the people aspect of it and how to strategically implement it. How do
you go about that? Because there's got to be some resistance. So, uh, it's a, it's a wonderful question. And one that is not asked often enough, I feel, because I, I think digital transformation is a triad.
Uh, it combines your people, your process and your technology. So it starts with people, any transformation starts with people. So as a, as a change agent, uh, a CIO would have to focus on the people part of things, then the process part of things, and then the, the technology part, that's like the, the last mile.
That's the easiest of the three to actually tackle in terms of people. Uh, there is always some resistance to change. Uh, and like you mentioned that these organisations have been around for more than a hundred years. Even the group that I'm with IBL has been around for more than a hundred years. People have been hired to retire, you know,
hired to retire kind of a mode 30 years with the organisation, 35 years with the organisation. It's not even an age factor. Sometimes even young people resist change. It's just, uh, as human beings, we want to be in a comfort zone and we want to know that, okay, this is how I've always done it. So I'm comfortable doing it. Why should I change? The goal of, uh, the CIO's office is essentially to create that awareness and to create that catalyst for change within the people of the organisation so that they look at you as a partner who's there to help them and facilitate them rather than someone who's bringing in change just for the sake of change. So if they feel that there's something in it for me, you know, the question everybody asks is what's in it for me? If I have to use this app, if I have to use the system, why should I do it? If they're convinced that it's in their best interest and it makes their life easier, if they can do something quicker and faster or better, which allows them, you know, faster or better, which allows them more time probably to go back home, have a nicer work life balance.
Um, maybe the report that they spend days making, they could do it in the matter of a few hours. Uh, the things that they used to spend weeks researching, they can do it in a matter of a few clicks. That is where the real partnership element comes in. That is where the change resistance starts breaking down. But change management is one of the core areas that I have had to focus on. And that's been one of the toughest areas to crack as well. And always look for allies. There are always allies
within the organisation. So you just need to keep hacking at it till you find the right people. Um, and eventually, you know, when the benefits, the quick wins start materializing. The naysayers also get converted into yaysayers. So that makes a lot of sense and it's a perfect sort of lead into the next question, which I was going to ask it, who, what kind of team does a CIO need to implement this change? Who are the stakeholders involved in executing your strategy or your vision? Because if everyone could do what you're doing, then, you know, what would be the difference? Uh, so another interesting question is, uh, so, uh, the CIO role is more of a strategic business partner role. Um, definitely there are certain operation aspects that do come into play. I wouldn't say that there are no operations involved. Um, but a real CIO, uh, a more, most effective CIO would not be focused completely on keeping the lights on. Uh, you know, the deep down plumbing aspects of running the IT,
uh, organisation within a, with a company. In terms of strategy, um, and ops. So there are two bifurcations or two segments, uh, primarily within the team. So one is your operation support team, uh, that entails your network operations, your infrastructure, right, um, and obviously, uh, data management, whether it's databases, whether it's master data, et cetera. So that's the operation side of things. Uh, you have support representatives, you have an entire, um, IT service management framework in place, which takes care of all the day to day requirements that business might be generating.
Sure. Uh, so be it somebody needs a laptop, somebody needs a connectivity, uh, device, somebody has an internet issue, someone's app is not logging in. So that team basically takes care of that. Then there is a strategic component of the CIO role. Mm hmm. The main three areas are the data, the digital, and the process governance. So when you talk about process governance, that includes your project management office, the PMO, um, that includes the governance for projects that are happening within the technology domain, as well as the digital domain. Digital includes any software development, um,
whether it's mobile web or back end application. And of course, uh, there is a business transformation aspect, which is at the, you know, the backbone of any digital transformation, which entails your ERPs and your line of business applications, uh, like SAP, Oracle, Dynamics, the CRMs, you know, the, the things that keep the ship. from sinking. Sure. Uh, so these are primarily the three areas. Um, data is an overarching area again, just like, uh, the governance function. Data is being produced by your line of business. It's being produced by a digital apps and it is also being produced by the teams that monitor the projects and the portfolio because, uh, at a group level, especially, uh, for companies like IBL and for PepsiCo, uh, there is a holding company structure than there are opcodes within. So we do have a lot of governance,
a lot of process, uh, optimization work that, that goes on. So all of this kind of flows up into, uh, the CIO role as well from a strategic perspective. Um, and yes, there are definitely teams supporting each of these areas. So there would be a head of infrastructure. There would be a head of business transformation or head of ERP. There would be a head of digital, there would be a head of data science or data engineering. So all of these would
be my DRs or the DRs of a CIO, and they would have their respective teams underneath, um, supporting them on functional as well as technical aspects of the implementations that go on. Okay. How did someone decide that CIO needed to be a role? And how did we decide who qualifies to be in that role? So, um, I think, uh, it's a little bit of an art and a science. I wouldn't say that there is a very hard, uh, cut or cookie cutter kind of a formula to, uh, or a fixed definition. I would say that, uh, you know, somebody who has innovation, as a driving force and a passion within is one of the first qualifiers. So you may or may not come from a very typical hardcore technology background. Um,
if you do come with a solid technical background, that's definitely a plus, but there are other channels and other avenues of whereby people aspiring for the CIO role might, uh, you know, be taking a look at. So somebody might do a bachelor's in business administration or the bachelor's in data science, for instance, and it's not hard to computer science or computer engineering, you know, from a background perspective, the differentiator comes in. Are you a people person? Are you good at cracking processes? Are you good at business process reengineering? Um, are you good at change management? Are you good at facing people and taking business problems and providing technology solutions for those business problems? So that mapping typically, uh, is not something that every technology professional might be cut out to do.
So it's part. Your education and part your exposure and your experiences. Um, I was fortunate enough. Um, I have been in the industry for 22 years. Uh, so I started working 22 years ago. I started, uh, my career from software houses, from IT service providers. I wanted to be at the cutting edge of technology and I wanted to be part of a team that was producing something that was creating something so that, you know, innovation and creativity was at the center of my passion for being in IT. Digital transformation, um, is not a new term, but back in the day at 22, like two decades ago, um, business process automation, uh, digitization was more of the buzzword digital transformation, uh, started maybe a decade ago, maybe, uh, eight to 10 years ago at max.
And, uh, you know, given the way the things have moved prior to that, the entire focus was on how do we take manual processes? How do we automate them? How do we take paper? How do we go paperless? So, so CIO is more like adding method to the madness, method to the madness. So back in the day, I'm telling you about the evolution of the CIO as well. Yeah. So. At that time, it was very boring stuff. I mean, okay, so you take a paper based process and you make it paperless. That's not exciting. I wanted to be somewhere where, you know, AI based products. I worked for Affinity. I was one of the first few employees in the company. We took it from a 10 person organisation to a company that was IPO'd at around 2 billion, right? So we saw that journey. That was exciting for me. You know, the startup mindset, entrepreneurship, um, everybody's like into R&D, research, product development. At that time, uh, corporate CIO roles
did not interest me because they were very cookie cutter by the book. Okay, go paperless, digitize your manual process, do your line of business, become an expert on some ERP and that's it. But the consultancy part, you know, when we were meeting up with clients, I found that I had a knack for that. So I think my consultancy exposure, uh, my exposure doing business process re-engineering, um, taking business problems and trying to come up with a creative solution, technology at the heart of it, but other aspects at the heart of it as well, trainings, awareness sessions, change management workshops, design thinking workshops. So I think all of that, um, properly qualified me to be in a position where I could, um, Strategically think about innovation because innovation requires strategy as well. I mean, there has to be some method to the madness. So, you know, somebody who comes from a consultancy background, be it a business consultancy, technology consultancy, they can definitely aspire for this.
They would need to be tech savvy, so they could have an additional qualification like an MBMIS or an MSIT, that helps. These days data science, data analytics is really in. So masters in AI, data science and etc could be another way forward. But primarily it's about, um, ideation, you know, design, thinking, work, shopping solutions. So, Um, it doesn't necessarily have to be a technology solution. Technology could be a very small component to it,
but it has to be something that makes it a viable business proposition. And that helps you to solve a business and helps you take business a step forward in whatever direction that they're trying to go. So, um, like I said, there is no cookie cutter formula. You don't need to have like a bachelor's in computer science as a must. If you have great, uh, but even just with that, and uh, advanced degree in computer science or technology, you would be better well versed as a CTO probably because you're thinking more back end architecture. Yes. You're thinking solution design, application design,
but that's just one part of the job that I do. So that's really interesting. And, um, what I'm taking away from your answer is that CIO role isn't very textbook or very academic. It's not that youneed to have this technique, this technical degree. It's literally how, you know, our, you know, our parents or some parents used to be like, yes, get that education, but have other interests to have exposure, um, have interest, have exposure, do critical thinking.
So what you're telling me and what my takeaway from this is, and what I feel like anybody's takeaway would be, and it's very interesting that you can't just sort of box it. Box, box it. Your exposure to your different interests, your reading up on different things, your keeping up with information is going to benefit you more for this role because it's all about keeping up with what's happening in the world. And definitely having business acumen. Yeah. And people. People skills. Absolutely. Because that's like we discussed, it's big aspect of it. So communication skills, people skills and business acumen. Financial acumen. Right. Because at the end of
the day, a lot of the business cases that I make as a CIO, they have to be justified by numbers. So financial analytics, yes, has to be there. Um, business analysis and ROI generation, you know, how does this have an impact on business? How does this benefit business if we do this implementation of the project? So sometimes, uh, these are joint KPIs. So it might be a joint KPI of the
marketing director, uh, and IT. It could be a joint, uh, venture between, um, HR and tech. It could be something that we do together with the commercial function, you know, empowering the salesforce effectiveness. So it's not mainstream. It's not like, uh, so you have to be a cookie cutter situation. So you have to be a business and people leader. Yeah. Yeah. And then have a strong, uh, technical things. Um, so with so many technologies coming up, AI, generative AI, web 3, et cetera, how do you assess which emerging technologies are worth investing in and then implementing across, uh, the wider business and, and to sort of be able to make the right decisions, how do you keep up with all this information? I feel like, do you sleep? Um, thankfully, I survived, I can survive on like four or five hours of sleep. So
that's never been a problem. And, um, as a person, I'm a bit of a workaholic. So, um, and I'm an avid reader. I've always been since I was a kid. So all of these things combined, uh, to go to my advantage, actually. And they are necessary.
And they are necessary. I think, um, you know, when growing up, um, I had a lot of doctors in my family. And, um, you know, he was told that, you know, if you become a doctor, you'll have to keep studying your entire life. This is like more than like 40 years ago, right? So. But I think in medicine, yes, you do have to keep up.
But in technology, things are changing at a pace, especially in the last five years. Since COVID, like pre COVID, COVID days, last four to five years have been, have seen phenomenal growth and transformation. And digital and tech has taken the world by storm. I mean, uh, I mean, at a going at a kegger of like 19%, uh, in business terms. So in 2021, immediately post COVID, uh, the digital transformation market was around like 52 billion. By 2026, it's going to be 128 billion. Wow. So, you know, in the span of five years, uh, this is what the market size and the spend on digital transformation is going to be in trillions of dollars, like three to 4 trillion by 2026.
So did COVID accelerate this? Of course it accelerated it. It 10x it. So people who thought that hybrid work, remote work, work from home, uh, was just a pipe dream and it is not effective, even they became converts of the fact that yes, technology can help you to get the job done, regardless of where you and your team are located.
You could be sitting at home and still run your business. You could be sitting at home, still run a marketing agency. You could be an effective IT leader. You could be an effective marketing leader and a commercial leader. Yes, there were certain scenarios like
boots on ground where people needed to be on the factory floor, they needed to be in the market, but apart from that, I think 80 percent of the roles could be done as well or better remotely. Um, you know, and this is what accelerated that transformation. So there was a huge paradigm shift. When you talk about keeping up, I think, um, there are multiple ways I do that. I, I read a lot. Um, anything that's related
to technology I've subscribed to, um, on a daily basis, I consume a lot of information. Um, maybe not books, podcasts, um, videos, tutorials. Um, I do a lot of online research and take up online courses whenever I can. I attend a lot of, uh, you know, workshops, conferences, both locally as well as internationally. And thankfully due to COVID, a lot of these conferences are more accessible because they have an online edition as well.
They're web based now. They're web based now. So I don't always have to travel because, you know, being a mother, you know, having a family, obviously, it's not always conducive for me to be on the road. Sure. So when you network or when you meet with your peers, when you see what the world is doing out there, that helps to open up your own perspective. And then you bring a lot of ideas from Pakistan and you take it outside to other countries. And then you learn, have a lot of takeaways from those events as well. And you build
strong relationships, which also help you in your career. Because obviously if I run into a problem, I would be reaching out to my CIO network, my fellows, both locally as well as globally. In terms of which technologies to adopt, how to make that decision, so there is a bit of a dilemma in terms of, um, how much to invest and where to invest. And this is not a new question. I mean, this has been a dilemma since, uh, old ages, uh, in tech. I feel that one should not be
running after every shiny new object, but one should at least be aware of what's out there. So if your basis are strong, if you have a strong foundation for digital and technology within the organisation, then you are well poised to be agile in terms of adopting newer technologies. And when you adopt a new technology, there has to be an innovation center or a corporate innovation hub within the company that takes a new tech. piece and does a little bit of proof of concept or the proof of value, risk assessment, sort of like a small mini project, uh, to see whether, you know, it's the right fit for the organisation at this point in time, rather than go for the big bang approach and say, okay, this is the best product, let's just roll it out across all our companies. So I think a continuous improvement program, a corporate innovation hub, which does R&D, which brings in innovative ideas and adapts it to the business ecosystem that we're operating in. Picks and choose the right business cases,
I think that's important. Every tech is not suitable for every kind of business. So you have to be very conscious of that fact. These days, AI is the buzzword. AI is not just a trend. It's here to stay. So we all have to accept that. We all have to learn and adapt to it. Uh, be it kids, be it people who are in mid career, be it people who are,
you know, like senior executives, uh, at C level, at board level, AI is not the enemy. Of course, there are some ethical and other data related challenges that are there around it, but AI is here to stay. Now how do we workshop it? How do we see which components of AI are we going to go with generative AI? I'll be going to go with some other, you know, conversational AI, what's right for me as a business at this point in time? Do I have, uh, the risk appetite? Do I have the business need? Do I have the finances to go for that? But yes, starting that conversation, uh, being on the, you know, the leading edge of things, I think that always pays off because if you're going to do that R&D, if you're going to do that trial and error, if you're going to do that proof of value, you might as well be doing it now rather than five years down the line where you will be hard pressed to play catch up and, uh, does, don't go for the latest shiny object. Just be very conscious of the fact that, you know, you have a solid business case. Um, and solid support, executive support and financial support at the back of it before you embark on implementing any new technology. So I think, um,
be a little cautious, like, you know, don't rush in. Yeah. So I think you answered a bit of my next question because I was like, when someone like you brings a proposal forward, the stakes are very high because you're, you're not working in a small organisation, you're working in these, uh, giant corporate organisations that have, that have legacies and that have been around forever and the scale, the sheer scale of it. So that means again, a risk is not just a small oops, it's, it's like across the board. So how do you, when you're bringing a proposal in,
when you're deciding that a certain technology needs to be implemented, how do you, yes, you have that external network, but within the company, how do you do the risk assessment? Um, and how do you sort of decide if something is the right fit for your company? Because again, uh, not just from a technology perspective, but every company has its own culture, um, its own sort of, I think you mentioned it, a certain appetite for these kinds of changes. How often can you do this? And when you do, how do you do it? So I think, uh, one of the best advices that I got from one of my mentors and managers was that immerse yourself in the culture of the company in the first three months when you join. And, uh, the wisdom behind those words was that you need to understand the DNA of the organisation, you need to understand, uh, the risk appetite, uh, the, the method of communication, uh, the kind of challenges from a business perspective and the kind of legacy that, that you're dealing with. So you also know who would be your strongest allies, which are your quick wins, which are the areas that you, uh, the biggest pain areas, that if you find a solve for that using technology or information or data, you would become, uh, like the best business partner around. So I
think understanding the organisation comes as a prerequisite of risk assessment, understanding market dynamics and competitor analysis, I think plays a key role. In organisations like PepsiCo, um, and before that, the competition is cutthroat and severe. So their competitors are competing on all fronts, on HR front, on technology, on process. And literally waiting for you to fail, um, yeah, in market execution, on marketing strategy. So you have to make sure
that you identify what's your weakest link and you strengthen that because the chain is only as strong as its weakest link, right? So understand the business, understand the DNA of the organisation, understand the culture. Once you understand the business, you will know where you are the weakest. Which are the areas that need strengthening?And then you find a solve or the solution for how to help business, you know, top that area up, take it to the next level, help to move the needle. If it's data, if it's information, if it's decision making, because we're not getting real time data, so we can't make quick decisions, then fix that first. Technologies that support you, data warehouse, data lake technologies,
um, self service BI technologies would be your go to in that case. If it's process, and you need business process engineering support, or you need a good line of business ERP, or you need to optimize, uh, and improve the adoption of DRP, then that is the area that you focus on. And that's where you put all your energy so that you know, you bolster it up. So I think understanding business problems, understanding business competition challenges and market dynamics that, that's the reason I said having business acumen comes in really handy, right? And then having the people and executive presence to be able to take those and present a business case, which justifies the investment in a particular solution or platform. Not just for a short term solution, but something that will scale with the organisation, something that will is going to take you forward into, let's say, the next decade without you having to completely unwind and wipe off and start again every time there is a change in the direction that business has to take. So those things need to be like, you know, having that foresight primarily. Because
we've seen a lot of heavy investments going down the drain because, you know, short term thought process, wipe it off millions of dollars spent. No, but now that we've scaled, we need another platform. I mean, we should have thought of that like five years ago. So I love how you keep leading me perfectly into the question that I've been ready, priming to ask, um, just this aspect that you just mentioned that technology is evolving so quickly that, you know, has there been a situation that you've done the entire sort of protocol and exercise of implementing a technological solution, um, or a process into the company and then something better comes up.
Um, and then, and even if you do think that change is necessary and at the rate technology keeps evolving and bringing up better solutions, you can't keep bringing those to the company and expecting everybody to sort of keep adapting. Um, how does one navigate that as a CIO? And do you think doing something like that is simpler in a startup situation because they're more agile, the scale is smaller, the teams are smaller. Um, everyone's just in that sort of like pivot mentality. If this didn't happen, we'll switch to that. So how do you think, You know, first, it's two questions in one. But first, how would you navigate that? And secondly, you know, how do you think startups have it better that way? So I, definitely startups have it better because they are, uh, less, less averse to risk.
Uh, they're eager to, you know, they're okay failing fast. They will try something new because that is by default, the DNA. Yeah. So they'll try something out. If it doesn't work, they'll switch to something else and they'll keep on doing that.
Agility is at the core of most of the startups and they have to be agile. Uh, of course. Um, so that's definitely there, but in an established organisation and the more, um, mammoth the size of an organisation, for example, if it's a global, uh, corporate giant like PepsiCo, Nestle, Coke, Unilever, change takes a long time to cascade down. Certain decisions are made at, uh, the HQ level. And that's in North America, where technological advancement and adoption of technology and digital transformation were happening even 20 years ago. Now, we are a nascent market.
We are an emerging market. So when the same kind of change cascades down to us, initially there, we find that there is more resistance in local markets than over there. So how do we localize that change? How do we bring acceptance of that change? That is challenge number one. Localize it, bring about awareness, bring about adoption. Then the cycle of change is a little longer. So when you invest in a technology, these are mega budget, multi year projects. So it takes about two years to implement the project,
with an ROI calculated on a minimum of five to seven years. So, you know, because these are heavy investments and you need to calculate and spread out that investment over at least five years so that, you know, you start reaping the benefits of that implementation. Right, right. So you bought something and, you know, you implemented something, uh, so, you know, you have teething problems, you have training, awareness, all of that going on the first year. There are learning curves that people are overcoming, year two, the actual benefits start manifesting. Right. Year three is when it's smooth sailing. Year four is when you look at optimization and by year five, you're looking at revamping that system. So the,
the big question was, uh, back in the day, whether we build or we buy. And, um, I find that over the years, people have started going for a lot of SaaS based platforms. Even traditional line of business ERPs like SAP and Oracle have moved to SaaS based offerings because they are not capex heavy. They're operational expenses, but not heavy initial upfront, front loaded capital investments.
So the old, uh, solutions that we used to have, they were heavy on the front load side. So make a big initial capital investment and then you have small licensing costs per year. Now it's the other way around, a very low initial implementation or like mid to high, but then you pay as you go. And therefore there is no long term commitment. Now, now you haven't bought a, like a Mercedes or like you haven't bought like a property and you don't know what to do with it. If you, it's like being on a rental. If you don't like it,
you can change your rental place after two years. Yeah. And the focus has now shifted on process transformation and people transformation. So make your people more agile, make your processes more streamlined, um, have better documentation, have better, uh, adoption of, uh, whatever tool comes in. And the goal behind that is that let's say two, three years down the line, if you change the platform, the people are like very well trained, they are more open to change. They're more receptive to change. So they will not have that big of a learning curve when it,
uh, you know, when they transition from system A to system B. And they've sort of become understanding of the process that the world is not ending. We will survive this change. We will survive this. And another big change is in terms of a term called user experience. So user interface, everybody knew about, like, you know, the GUIs and the graphical user interface, how nice an app looks and stuff. But now it's all about user experience and customer experience. And so, uh, primarily every
mainstream tier one player is focused on user experience and customer experience. And the idea behind that is that in itself is going to be the big differentiator or the USP that causes an organisation to move from product X to product Y, not just the base offering in itself. That makes sense. Because now we're very sort of we in even in terms of feedback and in terms of experience We want instant redemption if it works for me. Yes, if it doesn't work for me, no. Okay. So what is your favorite part of this role? Like, you know, everyone loves their job and obviously you're doing this because you're so passionate about it. But what specifically is it about this that you love doing that your favorite part? Um,
and in your experience, what areas of the business, um, excite you the most? So I am by nature a problem solver. Um, I think I have a knack for it. Uh, so if there is a problem that needs to be solved and I can somehow take that break it down and find a technology, solve for it. And because technology keeps evolving, so it keeps me on my toes. So continuously learning new things, um, you know, learning about new innovative technologies and being able to apply that to solve for the real world business problem. And then just seeing the look on the faces of people, like happy customers. Uh, you know, wow, I mean, I'm so happy that now I'm able to do this in like three minutes. I used to
spend three hours doing this. That in itself is very rewarding. And that is essentially the reason, you know, being able to create something out of nothing. And which parts of the business are the most sort of, um, beneficial to automate and to sort of bring, uh, more efficiency to, uh, your business? So, uh, you know, with the advent of the newer technologies, especially with the, um, you know, the back end AI, um, integrations that are happening, a lot of the tedious, mundane, routine work is being automated. So that leaves more time for the more innovative and more strategic work to happen. So basic accounting, um, data entry, um, you know, digitization of a lot of paper based, uh, forms and stuff. So that used to take up a lot of time of key individuals at different levels within the organisation cross functionally. Now with all of that
happening seamlessly at the backend, without anybody having to, you know, even think about it at the click of a button and you know that the entire thing is running seamlessly. So there is not really a reduction in headcount, but a reallocation in headcount. So the roles have not been reduced, they've been repurposed and the rules have transformed into more meaningful job roles, more intelligent knowledge worker kind of roles where the output is there. Now your job is to analyze it, bring the human intelligence aspect to the job.
So, and I think that was my relationship with accepting, um, like you know, AI and all of these solutions like chat GPT. And I was one of those people who was like, you know, I'm not going to let chat GPT do my work for me, but I literally had someone sit me down and be like, it takes you X amount of time to come up with a strategy and ideas because that's what comes to you naturally. And then to put that into something as mundane as like a deck, it takes you so much time because you hate sort of structuring your thoughts. How do I translate that into a deck? And they're like, just sit down. This will help you. It's not going to do your work for you. You're not going to feel like a fraud.
It will just make the process efficient for you. So you save more time. You can work on more strategies. And I think that is one of the things that I think your role also sort of facilitates for the people in the company. And like you said, it makes for better talent acquisition because you can look for other traits and other sort of, um, you know, aspects in terms of qualities and qualifications.
Absolutely. And we're doing, we're planning a workshop that's going to be titled, there's an AI for that. And the idea behind that is that we're going to sit down a number of people from cross functional teams and ask them some of the key areas that they think they're spending a lot of time on and that they wish could be simplified. And then helping them out with some AI based solution that's out there.
Feed presentation making, especially in marketing side, there's a lot of deck making that goes on so much time, even on strategy side, how do you convey your strategy? Your focus should be not on, uh, wasting days making that deck, but rather on actually strategically thinking out what needs to be put in it. Exactly. So, um, one other area, which I have really focused on myself, and I'm really emphasizing this for my teams as well, it's prompt engineering. I think that is the way to go. Nobody wants to write code. Back in the day when we were doing programming,
obviously there was no GPT. There wasn't even like Google was very nascent, right? But now that you have those tools available. It's not going to write itself. You need to know how to give it the right direction. It's like, you know, you need to know what you're looking for in terms
of a solution. If you don't have the key pointers available, it's not going to give you anything. I think we just created a lot of panic that, you know, it's going to replace, you know, it still needs you to give it that right prompt. You are the prompt. You are the person directing it and you're just using your time wisely and smartly. You're using it for the things that you actually need to use it on. It's not going to be able to replicate your thoughts entirely. But obviously, if somebody can help you make a beautiful presentation in
three minutes, that would take you at least three hours or maybe three days to finesse. Um, I would definitely want to take that help because I would rather focus my energy doing the research and even doing the research. If you Google it, you have to go through all of those articles. The GPT is going to do the comparative for you. Then of course you double click and you go into detail. You fact check, you do your analysis. Just don't copy paste it. I mean, don't become that person that just relies blindly on that,
uh, so that's a disclaimer. So there's an AI for that, but you know, you need to have. Human intelligence to be able to use artificial intelligence properly. Please change the words to your own words. Like something as basic as that.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and this workshop, is it for like the general public or just for your team? Just for the teams. Like, that's not fair. Um, but you should think about it, making it like, uh, definitely. If this goes well, then, uh, inshallah. I mean, I'd attend it.
Um, so what are some of the biggest challenges you faced in, um, You know, we discussed the sort of the cultural issue, the management, the people management, um, How do you actually sit down and convince people? We've, we briefly discussed the resistance that can come in terms of implementing that change. But when does that shift happen? How do you know you've convinced people? Um, I think there is a lot of legwork and a lot of research that goes into building those business cases because without a solid business case, it is very difficult to convince anyone. Um, one reason why people are a little skeptical is because whereas digital transformation is going rapidly, there have been a lot of field implementations, a lot of field, uh, mega projects with a lot of time, energy and money wasted, so to speak. So people have, uh, to take everything with a grain of salt. So the more factual, the more fact based, uh, the more well researched, uh, your, you know, homework is, the more prepared you are to make that presentation, and the better you can tie it to actual business outcomes with proper KPIs and metrics that can be tracked, uh, by finance, by business teams, uh, by the board. The easier it is. It is never, never super easy in any case, but you know, you have to come prepared and I don't think it's a bad thing. It helps to refine our own
thought process as well. You know, the kind of questions that will be asked in the boardroom, if I'm asking that of myself and my team ahead of time. A lot of questions, make us take a pause. Sometimes they make us go back to the drawing board that no, we've not had this. You have to think it through and you have to plan for the future and you have to be well aware of what new interventions are coming up. Have we catered to that? Are we going to go and say, oops, we didn't think of this.
You don't have that luxury. So essentially the more solid your groundwork, the more solid your research. Both on trends from the past, as well as, um, forecasted trends from the future and what's coming in and how that might have an impact on your area of business, understanding economics, understanding contract law, understanding a lot of things, uh, is required to basically make that holistic, uh, kind of a business case. And at times, you know, um, I feel that I can probably go into becoming a lawyer at some point in time. You really have to advocate for your decisions. You know, a technology evangelist or a digital transformation evangelist of, you know, we've heard those terms, but you know, when you evangelize, you're actually advocating. Um, and sometimes you, you feel like you're preaching to the choir. True,
but, but other times you, it's like, you know, you're speaking to a wall and there's no traction. So you just have to be very perseverant and you know, you just keep persevering and change your tactics. Live to fight another day. Don't give up, you know, approach it differently. So I feel like, I don't know if you've thought of this and we were just discussing AI and how like it keeps getting smarter and better. And obviously with all the prompts, we're feeding it and all of, you know, it's, it's learning from the prompts we give it. And from the questions we ask it, and it's just turning into this powerful monster. How do you see the role of a CIO evolving in the next 10 years with like AI also sort of, you know, that old fear, AI sort of trying to replace us all? I think there would be a lot of changes in the team structures and the roles that a typical CIO office or an IT organisation has. New roles would be created,
certain roles would be enhanced, certain roles would probably become redundant. So that is a big change that we need to be prepared for. Upskilling the team and making sure that they stay abreast of the latest technological trends that they are developing technique, technically and professionally. Um, you know,
not just from a technology perspective, but also from a business learning perspective. Um, that is also important. Finding people with, um, and, you know, creating a talent pipeline of people who have that curiosity, that inquisition, that agility built into their DNA. And tapping universities, um, so that, you know, you tap the source rather than wait for people to come out in the market, um, and then try to groom them and nurture them.
I think, uh, there has to be a stronger liaison between academia and corporate IT as well, because right now I think that's a big chunk of the gap is. So these are some of the areas that, you know, um, I'm very passionate about. Um, I have been working on that. Another thing is that I feel that women being, um, a main, uh, focus area in a lot of professions, but women in tech is still an area of concern globally, not just in Pakistan. So we need, uh, more diversity in tech as well, because you know, that always brings in a fresh perspective and it brings diversity of views, and you know, it just overall improves the team dynamics as well. I feel like that's why I'm asking you all of these probing questions and getting you to sort of expand on these details more because, um, so much of this information is gatekept or even if it's not gatekept, it's just not shared enough.
And the terminologies we use and the technical jargon we use is just so complicated that someone who is aspiring to be in this role might be overwhelmed. So I feel like my goal here is to contextualize it and simplified enough that anybody can sort of be like, I can be in that role. Um, so if you feel like I'm asking too many proven questions, that's fine. Um, and I think it is overwhelming. I've I remember my first head of IT role. It was not a CIO, though it was a head of IT role. And I was super overwhelmed. Yeah. And I would be like reading up like crazy. You know, in my own time, trying to keep up, trying to
understand things because suddenly you're not responsible for just one area of technology. You're responsible for keeping the lights on, making sure that people are connected, making sure that everything is, uh, you know, working as per schedule and also leading innovation, bringing in change, bringing transformation. So it is a bit of a steep learning curve and it is not for the faint of heart. So, you know, you need to be able to give it time and you need to be really passionate about it. Uh, so I think having that, um, internal drive is important. Um,
and you know, it does take a toll in terms of time. Um, I mean, you have to be really committed to the role. Um, so what are some of the critical issues currently facing the tech industry? Um, And how should they be addressed? So, uh, the role transformation, um, availability of the right talent, building a talent pipeline, data security, um, an ethical dilemmas related to the use of AI on that data. Yeah. I think these are some, uh, the three main themes that pretty much everybody is talking about. Um, yes, um, you know, we're all very excited that AI is here to help us. But
not many people have really thought through of the implications that the amount of data that we're sharing to even the apps that are there on a mobile phone. Yes. Our location, our preferences, a lot of that information. Facial scans, etc.
That's all monetized, right? Uh, so the security of that data, the ethical use of that data, um, you know, the user proprietary customer information, etc. Not using it in a way that can cause any, uh, significant impact negatively on the organisation or any individual. I think that's one major area to focus on. So GDPR, PCI DSS, CIPA compliance and all, I think those are areas that most organisations need to focus on. The other is talent pipeline, especially in countries like Pakistan, where we have a lot of great, amazing talent, but we're losing a lot of the talent in the form of brain drain. So we see a lot of talent migration and we see a lot of talent working for international organisations. So as CIOs, um, and also as business leaders, we have a struggle where how do we retain, attract and retain top talent? Local companies also need top talent. If
everybody's working for international groups and then they all move abroad, then how do we sustain our own industry? Be it the IT industry or business or any other industry? And the third one, obviously, is like I said, um, keeping pace with changes in technology, um, making sure that you're not left behind, because it is said that the next, uh, war is going to be like a cyber war, right? So we need to be super, super, uh, careful when we say that, okay, you know, we're not that rich a country. We can't invest that much on technology and cyber security on, on data security and this and that. So I think we need to really be cognizant of the kind of risks the future, um, decade or so is going to bring and make sure that our future generations are kind of well taken care of in terms of having that kind of talent pipeline built in and companies being positioned correctly to adopt technologies at the right time.
So I'm going to, I mean, it's not in my questions, but you just mentioned, you know, cybersecurity and all of these situations. Recently we've had some situations with our internet and, uh, on a bigger scale, um, some firewalls and all of this tech being sort of expen, you know, experimented on or tested out. How, how could that have been done more efficiently? Why do you think it was such a sort of a problem for everyone? I think, um, like I said, I think when, um, when tech is rushed, like I said, you think it too, and you need to not go with a big bang approach. You need to test it out. So the better, Your test base, the, uh, the more enhanced sandboxing that you do for any solution that you're implementing. So your sandbox is your playground. You play around, you make a mistake. You have
the option to backtrack, to rectify. You don't just take something and you just roll it out, uh, you know, in a hurry. I feel like the whole country was the sandbox here. Something like that. Okay. Um, so, um, What measures have you at some point implemented to safeguard data and ensure compliance with industry regulations? You know, you've definitely been in a situation like this. If you're comfortable talking about it,
I'd love to hear it. And how did you go about, yeah. So I'll just give you like a general idea of the kind of challenges, right? So, hacking, infiltration, ransomware, all of these are a reality of life for every CIO and every chief information security officer. Uh, no matter how many, uh, layers of security you put in play, um, even organisations like NASA and, uh, air defense in, in North American countries gets hacked. So the, the people on the other side of the spectrum on the dark web, they're one step ahead of us. Right. So we just need to keep pace. And the idea is to have a solid business continuity and disaster recovery plan in place, because you know, that is not when you, it's just a matter of time that you will be hacked or you will face some kind of a cyber threat or the cyber security attack. It's going to happen.
Um, and it won't be pretty when it does, how quickly you recover from it? How completely you recover from it? What's your agility level? What's your turnaround time? I think that is where the success of any CIO is usualise. So, you know, you need to have a solid DR, BCP plan in place. Um, and I want to ask if somebody started as a leader in an IT industry, what's your blueprint for them for like the first 90 days? So, um, the first 90 days. So the first, uh, 30 days, I would say, should be all about understanding the organisation, the business, the processes, and the people. Get to know your own team, get to know your peers, get to know, uh, who are the key players in each of the key domains, uh, that your organisation operates in.
You're just like a sponge, act like a sponge. Absorb. Absorb. Absorb. Uh, the next 30 period is where you, uh, kick into motion your initial plans and strategies. Uh, you identify your quick wins and you identify your key stakeholders that you want to partner with. And some of the quick wins that you can work with within each vertical. Um, solidifying those relationships, building, uh, those, uh, building up those conversations, starting to build those, uh, use cases and business cases primarily. So this is more behind the scenes, blueprinting, you know, let's get back to the drawing board kind of work. Uh, it's more internal work,
understand your existing systems, your existing processes, do a deep dive technology wise. Uh, the 60 to 90 days, the last 30 days of the leg is when you start making your pitches, start convincing people, start, uh, speaking up about, uh, what your ask is? What your to be state looks like, uh, both from a people process and technology perspective and what kind of supports that you need and setting those, um, actions into motion. So that by the time, uh, you enter into the fourth month of your technology leadership team, at least your team is in place and you know, you are well poised to start engaging with business on some meaningful, uh, innovations and strategic interventions. Thank you so much for joining us on She Talks Business and sharing so much amazing information with us. I think there's so little awareness about the role of CIO and you sharing all of this information and explaining it in such simple terms just makes it so much more accessible. And I think that's what we want to do with she talks business. Thank you so much once again.
2024-12-18 17:35
