foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] respectfully acknowledges the traditional owners of the lands where we work the warangiri and bunwarang peoples of the Eastern cooler nation and first people's language groups and communities across Victoria and Australia we pay our respects to their Elders past present and their emerging leaders our organization in partnership with the First Peoples of Victoria is working to place first people's living cultures and histories at the core of our practice good evening and welcome to Melbourne Museum my name is Dermot Henry I'm the head of the Sciences Department here at museums Victoria and it's my great pleasure to welcome you tonight to this very special Futures forum and also a big warm welcome to those joining us online this evening on behalf of our speakers tonight I acknowledge the we're injuryong and the bunarong peoples of the Eastern kulin nation the traditional owners of the land in which we work and where we gather it this evening put their respects to their ancestors and to all elders and First Nations people who have joined us this evening welcome I'd also like to thank and acknowledge Gabriel who's providing the auslan interpretation for tonight's program so thank you Gabriel tonight's event is part of a Museum's Victoria's future forums and tonight it's ideas shaping tomorrow a series of conversations proudly presented by museums Victoria that brings together the world's brightest innovators and creative thinkers to reflect on the big ideas and important questions that shape our future tonight's program is proudly presented as part of Melbourne Museum's design week Hub designed for future human health this is the topic exploring the role of contemporary design in the future of health and medical technology and for more than 165 years museums Victoria has conducted research and which has been inspired by our Collections and we have inspired inquiry creating new knowledge that shapes our understanding of our past and present and future some museums Victoria's thrilled tonight to bring together industry design education and public audiences in support of med tech as a key area of growth within Victoria the presentation of this program has been made possible through the incredible support of creative Victoria Melbourne design week the National Gallery of Victoria and the Australian Medtech manufacturing center a second discussion for the evening to sign an innovation for future human health brings together industry experts working at the intersections of Design Technology and Healthcare to explore the future of human health and the role design plays in helping us live longer and healthier lives so thank you for coming and it's my great pleasure to welcome back our host for tonight CEO of Bio Melbourne Network Jeff Malone who will now introduce the panelists thank you Jeff thank you for that so it's great to be here and uh welcome to the second part of our discussion um this evening on design and Innovation for future human health so my name again is Jeff Malone I'm the CEO of Bio Melbourne Network we have been the peak body for the health tech industry representing Victoria for over 22 years and we help bring together government researchers in universities smes with the investors and the product developers and the other people they need to translate that Innovation or research and commercialize it into something that can actually have impact to human health right not only here in Australia but pretty exclusively all of our companies are aiming at Global markets um so what we're going to hear about so in our again in our earlier session we peered through the window into the world where we all kind of live in uh that has a whole ecosystem of globally recognized folks throughout Victoria and Australia centered on health Tech research and Invasion commercialization so join me now as we take a deeper dive into the critical role that design plays in actually translating medical technology and Innovation into real products that have impact on human health the translation Journey requires a strong Foundation of good design that is well aligned to the needs of Industry to ensure the outcome that we all desire so what does that really mean um what role does truly product design and development take in in in that translation Journey um and before we get into that I think I want to give a little more context to um to some of the technology that's out there and although we're not going to go do a deep dive into an individual bits of Technology we're going to really talk about the design the the general impact of design on product translation there are so many breakthroughs happening in in in the ecosystem and in the world right now that it's it's it's phenomenal you know there's artificial intelligence that we've all been hearing about and while uh we all uh and our high school student you know children may be all trying to get on gbt to use that for less or more nefarious purposes um artificial intelligence also designs new drugs it screens for cancer and can analyze vast amounts of data that humans could never do and give us results that are used to improve diagnosis and treatment there are machine uh brain interfaces that allow physically disabled to communicate to work and engage in ways that would have been the stuff of Science Fiction only a decade ago wearable medical technologies that automatically Monitor and dose insulin for diabetics there will be a lot of people in this room that have one of those devices or know someone in their family who does again that was not a thing 10 years ago really or it was very early and advanced robotics things that uh you know surgical robotics that interact with MRI machines so that when they detect cancer in your brain the the robotics can actually detect where that is during surgery and remove it directly so there's no uh you know to be a bit gruesome feeling around [Music] um so those are just a few examples of the incredible technology and advancements that are in front of us that one they will make up our new future normal and what we expect as the minimum standard of care so as an example when the first cardiac pacemaker was developed which by the way was right here in Australia in 1928 by Dr Mark Cali libwell so he used a a car battery and a device to deliver a series of shocks to and save the pers first patient ever with a a device that was a newborn in 1928. now from that point and they did save that that newborn's life from that point the size of the machinery and the complexity of it and then reliability of the design meant that the first actual implantable medical um device was not put into a patient in until it was 1958 in Sweden that device failed in six hours that patient survived and went on during the course of his lifetime to have 26 different pacemakers installed in that and and survived and lived a long life um today there are millions of these devices out in the world right and again there'll be people in this room there'll be people that you know who have one of these so the the technology was there but the design was not right um and sort of for those in the room raise your hand if you think that level if you want to be at that point of the sharp end of the product development life cycle where you'll have a implantable device put into you 26 times over your life it's just not acceptable anymore so the the window has shifted dramatically since that time of what's acceptable and so not only do we require now cost and quality and and reliability in the but now in the age of mobile phones and apps and instant access to data and um and and really empowering patient agency the standard of what now constitutes a good product uh is is an Ever evolving and quickly evolving entity so join me now on welcoming presentations for our speakers this evening who will provide insights into the question of and the perspective from an organization who has helped develop a wide-ranging uh series of cutting-edge medical devices over the years which is dni and uh from a company who um who actually is on their own Journey right which is uh synchron and so who I've got here today with me is Gary Haywood and Gary is the business development manager for design and Industry who's a uh uh the the probably the leading product industrial design medical device design company in Australia I would say you're not going to disagree I'll go with that Jeff okay you've won me on that I'm going to say yes um Nicholas OPI Chief technology officer synchron and professor of vascular bionics a professor vascular bionics laboratory at the University of Melbourne and so I think we're going to start off with Gary who's going to introduce dni and and a little about his experience with um with this journey thanks very much chef and thanks for the opportunity dni is a 35 year old company now we're total a staff of around 80. of designers Engineers electronics and software firmware resources we've three Studios one here in Melbourne in Sydney and uh and in Newcastle and our client base is is global so uh probably 40 of our work is is done for clients in North America Europe and uh through southeast Asia Singapore and some of those relationships that we've enjoyed are very long we've had them for several decades working with companies and clients in in both North America and and in Europe we've been very fortunate so there's obviously something that we're doing right um and the company continues to grow at the moment particularly in the medical device space it's a it's a it's a really wonderful market for growth for us at the moment and uh as well as capability Improvement within the organization our growth is really in in export as much as we can the local market is still a very important market for us but definitely in in exporting of those Design Services and and bringing our capabilities up to speed uh to match that uh to match that demand as as we would like to see it right and and as you'll see in the background you'll see a range of different products being shown here that that most a lot of them at dni have have developed over the years and um a a quick uh Insight I used to work with DNA and uh what I always found fascinating was that you've got the same group of design Engineers electronics and other people there who are designing the Next Generation keyboard and devices like you see behind you um that are 3D printing um uh sort of tissue protein at the end of the diet 3D tissue printing so yeah it's a it's um one of the things that as you as you rightly pointed out is that that every project that we do at the end of the day is new and particularly the the projects that we seem to attract and and they are certainly coming out of here in in Victoria um it's always Cutting Edge technology that tends to be the driver whether it's coming out of a university or a research institute it's never the same so yeah you'll find every project that we do it's a very steep learning curve we work with Cyro and a lot of those key institutions to ultimately commercialize a lot of their their technical innovations now before I go on I'm being I need to make sure that I remind everyone that that's here and also online that we are taking audience questions this evening using the online q a platform slido so please don't hesitate to join the conversation to submit a question go to slido.com
slido.com using your mobile phone or other device and enter the code hashtag innovation2205. so Nick over to you yeah excuse me thanks for having me here uh it's great to see you guys here and and welcome to those online um do get your questions in I mean I think the reason we're both here is to answer some questions you have I know synchron certainly uh you know where we are because of some some novel design um we're a brain machine interface company um we're developing a technology that can allow people with paralysis to control external equipment like keyboards and and phones to allow them to communicate with their loved ones and and carers and Community uh for us design is the reason that um synchron's one of the leading neurotechnology companies in the world and you know we're not the first other people have have tried this before and other people have you know previously been trying to access their brain by using saws or drills to remove the skull and then by using electrodes that look like nails and sort of shooting them into the into the brain tissue to record signals from from people with paralysis to allow them to to control technology now you know the science behind it has shown that it works people can you know even if they can't move their limbs they can use their brains in a similar way to to before the injury or accident and produce the the neural signals for moving Limbs and the these invasive devices showed that that was the case but none of these devices have been given FDA clearance uh and part of the reason is that these patients sit there with large wires hanging out of their heads that are connected to keyboards and computers and you can't use that at home you can't you know from a medical perspective allow someone to have that go into their native environment there's huge risks of infection and uh and bleeding among other things and so with our technology by not having to remove the skull doing a design that allowed people to have the same um ability to use their brains but without the surgery I mean I think that's the reason why you know we've been granted FDA approval and why we're hopefully going to be one of the first to Market with a technology that that can help a lot of people great so I think we do have a range of questions coming in and once again feel free to to to keep those coming um one of the things that I did want to touch on and you were talking about the the different Technologies of you know now that you look at it and you say well is it really was it ever really a viable product where you had big nails and and and and wires hanging out of your head that but the technology the principle of how that works how much different is that from what you're doing in synchron I think whether it remains to be viable will be seen over the coming years there are um I'm at the nails individuals who are doing that so let's see how how they go um but certainly for us we wanted to make sure that the procedure was safe for the patients um that we wanted to you know take advantage of other fields so cardiac um uh cardiac medicine is one field that's been going along a lot longer than the vascular devices and for them stencil placed inside blood vessels so we were able to take advantage of the lessons they have learned and the skills that they have and go okay well there are blood vessels in the head as well as the rest of the body why don't we use those as a way to to get into the brain but without doing the the surgery that um that has a lot of risks and and I think that's sort of one of the designs that we came up with and one of the ones that has you know been able to Fast Track us through through the the clinical pathway so what other elements are there so you've got the the brain interface you took some inspiration from some other products that were out there that solve some of the problems with the to be not too delicate Nails sticking out of the head problem um so but that's not your whole product what is your when you look at your product it's more than just the technology that makes it successful and that's a little bit about the theory we're talking about today what makes your product a product not just the sensor or the the machine brain interface I think yeah there's a there's a number of things so it's there's the the technology is one part of it um the product I also you know in terms of design we also have to be careful in designing clinical trials we have to design a technology that actually makes sense for the people where we're making it for and there's huge teams around us that you know that you need in medicine engineering biology all of that uh and certainly I think you know when you're looking at at design um as an engineer when I started this project right we you know I was thinking well they've got these amazing prosthetic arms um that are arguably better than ours made of carbon fiber never get tired extremely strong why don't we connect everyone to them that's what they're going to love and and I think you know it took a little while uh for me as an engineer to understand that maybe the people that we're making it for don't have the same needs that that I'd as an engineer want to sort of provide them so um so certainly for for us like in the more we started spending time with the the end users or the customers or or in this case the patients we started realizing what they really want is to be able to communicate again they you know having this amazing arm um sounds cool and I I love the idea and I'm sure we'll get there but for them they just wanted to speak to their families and so for us there was a a design change in what's the software we can provide them that will allow them to connect to not only what's available today or yesterday in terms of phones and iPads but how can we make sure that it's uh somewhat foolproof for what comes next and I don't know where the technology is going to go but but certainly being able to connect people to you know smart devices like phones and homes has has been exactly what they've wanted and uh and we're lucky that they've been able to tell us that uh as opposed to going down my pathway of just making cool arms and Limbs and things that perhaps they wouldn't want but so Gary picking up on the the idea of the difference between technology and good product design I realize I'm opening up a a can of worms here but can you give us a little bit on on your experience uh that you see coming out of universities or startups or others in that Innovation space and the you know the the product that's on the the screen is probably a good example as any but you you can take that question from that it's like Nick said that we often find with uh um the founders of the the companies if they're for instance their startups and doing it for the first time um and and sometimes even if they're a company that's coming from a space that's been very successful from technology and Technology driven Innovation um as designers we've got a responsibility and and it's in our DNA to actually try and unpack to some degree a lot of that uh that very Scientific Technology approach and bring that that human factors element into the conversation it's not it's not always seamless we don't always do that that successfully but the the real trick at the end of the day is as designers is to actually really start bringing that that uh the imperative of those those needs uh further up at the priority list if you like and that's that's it's the same when it flows on into the regulatory environment and the compliance within human factors in a very controlled regulatory environment a lot of that those those parameters are still very much a part of that process as well too so as a designer that that's probably our biggest challenge initially is to really convert sometimes uh you know multiple many years of research technology Research into thinking around a user a user experience to some degree a market need and some of the parameters around that and actually really getting the thinking around what they're really trying to do without it being a detrimental thing at the end of the day but so if we if we can actually successfully do that we get a very powerful basis to actually go forward into technology development because they've got those insights actually driving their decision making at the end of the day and we can always come back to the storytelling of the user experience the workflows user demographics and what what certain clinicians or health staff might prefer and also what you're trying to do with the technology so they may have a very well entrenched means or process of conducting a certain type of surgery or conducting a certain type of treatment and what you're trying to do through your new innovation is change that and you have to be very mindful of how much you can achieve in actually doing that so sometimes we actually have to pay back the degree of innovation on the basis of what the users ultimately can really tolerate in a in a change process of actually bringing that treatment safely and and successfully to Market so it's very important to us at that very early stage is a very fundamental Foundation period for us to then get into the very serious technology development I find it really surprising how many people you have to design it for right so you design it for the end user but there's also different design considerations for the surgeons or whoever's implanting it um you know then there's like you're saying design considerations to make it safe for for the FDA there are considerations for for reimbursement and uh and I think yeah a lot of startups just think they're making it for the for the patient and the end user but as you go along the journey get more experience you realize that there are there are more design people there are more people that that have uh input into into what you need and you need to make it agree with with a whole lot of different um yeah very much faculties in fields yeah yeah and there's a there's a degree of of very early in the piece of of how much you can make as an assumption and and work as the basis of the decision making or the early decision making and then how you go through a uh I guess to some degree a controlled process of actually just validating those assumptions so that at the end of the day you're you're right or you're correcting the pathway on the basis of what you're learning through the development process as well yeah that's right I mean I whenever I've been involved in those programs we always talk about the user you're designing for the user the Chooser and the buyer and they they may have very different uh design requirements you might have a user who's the the the patient and they they want a certain outcome they want a certain features in the arm you might have a a Chooser you might that might be the hospital that might be the the health care provider it might be different folks who in different countries who who choose that and then who's buying it who's actually going to be paying money for that and and uh and product designs do change depending on who's buying it and where you're selling that product so all of those become complicating factors um Nick in your own Journey um when you look back over the product design you kind of hinted at you may have started a more engineering centered approach and then move towards um I guess two questions and then we've got some coming from slido as well um one how long is that process from when you first have that sort of idea till where you are now and how much longer do you think it's going to be to get yourself into um in you know into public use um it it takes a while uh we've been going for about 10 years now so when we start up we we didn't have anything we didn't have a lab we didn't have people uh we had an idea uh and then so certainly we we started from from zero um so we've been going for 10 years now the first number of years were designing the device um making iterations we knew what we wanted to achieve we knew we wanted to get a device through blood vessels but how do you do that you know how do you how do you do the engineering work to show that that's feasible and I suppose the next stage is you know going into well how can we make this product and prove that it's safe for for an early clinical trial and and certainly Australia continues to be and Victoria continues to be the best place in my opinion to do those um and and then after that you know depending on where your Market is uh for for us we the US is a is a much larger market for people with uh severe paralysis so that that's where we we're now doing trials and and hopefully um when we finish these and save four or five years then we'll be be Market ready for for those that are prescribed it by their Physicians but it's it's a long journey but I think we continue to to learn and like you've said you continue to know where to do designs uh it does help to have the right base and the right idea at the start and then you can sort of you know make make small iterations and and improvements as opposed to do big flips if you if you got that wrong but uh but certainly we were lucky that that we chose the right Avenue at the start and and have continually just optimize it and keep making it better and based on who the who the user or or payer is or or the other the other people involved in the decision-making process right thank you so um I've got a question that's coming from slado um for Gary and it just and both of you can jump in but we kind of heard a little bit about yours Nick and Gary in your experience what are these what's the origin a lot of these projects are they coming from straight from Health experts are they coming from uh researchers health professionals um where are a lot of these startups originating out of uh yes all of the above yeah the the that the hills the med tech space um which would is largely driven by startups in our experience most of the clients that we see are developing a product for the first time there's clearly uh you know a a good uh deal of work going on out there with existing original equipment manufacturers they tend to do a lot of that control and Technology develop internally and we might supplement that but most of the work that we actually see are people that are doing it for the first time so there's a very steep learning curve that they're on and most of them are coming out of Institutions such as research institutes universities postgraduate researchers that are forming increasingly at Courtesy of the government there's a a lot of accelerators that are starting to get uh really really proficient at helping those early stage uh developers and Founders for the first time getting to a level of knowledge and proficiency and and even resolution of their of their technology that's really helpful for organizations like us and the broader ecosystem to sort of filter out the better quality if you like better quality teams a very important thing is the the backbone of the team and and it's usually made up of several people technical business industry based or advisors and they'll come to us probably the the the the tougher ones are when we get Specialists or surgeons and clinicians that have a an itching desire to see their product that's going to change their own procedure or profession for the better they'll often come on their own and and they'll have a you know a range of uh of colleagues that they'll work with that they may have as advisors um and they're probably not as well um resourced from a team perspective but we often find a great many of the the most successful products and a lot of the ones that you see on on display here have ultimately been forged through teams of people that have come together and have gone through the Journey and evolved together and and the team has grown over time to get a raft of advisors and and uh and and support these initiatives these accelerator initiatives that we find as our source do you do you find that the mindset has changed I know when I was um starting out it seemed to be you either go into Academia or you go into industry and there's sort of you have to choose what I found recently uh a lot of the the graduates and people coming through have a mindset where it's it's okay to like turn your product into something that's actually going to break out of sort of conventional Academia and turn into a product I don't know if that's just me growing up but have you has that been changing it's absolutely the truth and and there's a raft of drivers I think that are are probably making that that transition both successful and probably a lot more frequent than it has been in in many years till now um I think that there's a there's a I think an innate curiosity amongst a lot of those stakeholders that you know what if I could actually develop something that could make a difference other than a research paper and I think once you start um once you trigger that Curiosity and you start engaging with them on that level um they're absolutely um just incredibly Keen to know more and so provided you actually understand the challenges of people that have been probably very research or academically focused for a long period of time they're incredible resource to get on board but this is where the teams actually do start coming together where you've got people that that are working together and they're possibly different personalities but we find the actual ecosystem is is far more receptive now to conversations about a commercial outcome here and making making a quid at some stage as opposed to just turning your your science into something that people can use the conversations I've had there that has been for many years at the elephant in the room that says I'm an academic researcher I'm doing my research you you publish a parish kind of of way of living and moving from Grant to grant that are often only a year or two or or very short funding periods and you're constantly out chasing the next Grand and writing your next paper you stop that process to do a startup which is risky and you could fail and you you know statistically you're going to um and then you if you think you can't go back it you're not going to do that in the first place and so that is starting to shift and I've depending on who you talk to you you hear no no that's that's the past um anecdotally maybe not but it's still it is Shifting it is Shifting but it's it's it's got to continue we got to build momentum to really make that that transition that uh back and forth between Academia and and Industry uh uh sort of more fluid look kind of mod ad too broaching the amount of money that it costs to get a medical device to Market and the the amount of time effort and commitment that it's going to take is is always something that has to be judged very carefully um if we're to just drop some of the numbers and and that the the amount of time and life that Founders were going to commit to the process probably a great many of them would say I might leave it and park it for now um because it is a it is a incredibly um long and arduous journey and it's and it can be very expensive so we always again try to get an idea of how we can successfully Broach that because again being an educational process um we find that over a period of time the amount of zeros don't don't worry a Founders once they've become accustomed to what they're doing what the tasks are in front of them and and all of a sudden it just Falls the the pieces of the puzzle just fall in behind that as we start working them through that that process yeah I mean it is long you're right uh I don't want to turn anyone off though I mean it's been an amazing process along the way and I've certainly wouldn't change anything I I didn't expect it like this long when we started the company up that's that's true but uh but but I wouldn't change anything I think just learning about how long it takes keeps you excited there's new challenges all the time so uh so don't be turned off by by the timing that's just part of it and you'll you'll learn to love it so if you're on the cusp and worried about how long it's going to take to worry about it like you look back in years have flown by and you're still loving it um and glad you did it there is a Stockholm syndrome element to it you're taken prisoner and at the first you fight it and then eventually you just sort of succumb to it and you think oh actually this is pretty good I'll Stick Around um so we've got some slido questions coming in and there's two I'll say two basic categories coming in um so if you're online or if you're in the room you have slido uh go ahead and put your questions in um so the two categories are really around first round um operating in Victoria and and the the benefits and the challenges of doing that the second is really we've got we've definitely got some engineers and some young product designers in the room and they've got some questions so I think we're going to start with uh Victoria and uh um you know sort of what are the advantages I'll start with you Nick what are the advantages or disadvantages of actually starting a company here in Victoria uh I think some of the main advantages the big ones are the the people in infrastructure so for us uh and for people doing medical devices having access to you know world-class universities within you know a couple hundred meters of animal facilities if you need them or hospitals and and having all that wrapped together makes makes it so easy to get the right people in the room to to design and test and build I don't think you can do that in many other places and and certainly the uh the encouragement of the the people around to to support the the translation of Technology through from sort of Concepts to to Clinic is is amazing and uh and the government obviously is is putting a lot into that as a as a different universities and research institutes and and trying to streamline the pathway from you know getting the technology ready to to showing that it works or is safe in humans is is unparalleled so far I think so uh elsewhere in the globe and I think that's an amazing place to to start the start the journey we work in in many jurisdictions um and across many states and and um there's a degree of of local you know interest in in various bodies be it associations private or uh or like or government in trying to localize um Talent Improvement we find it you know particularly in in offshore um markets as well having said that though underneath that there's there's a an underlying um I guess mode of motivation and belief that you know we're building Global businesses here so we can't afford to be too um local and parochial about it so we're finding that a lot of those jurisdictions now are very much open to um getting the best for the the project best for the founders and ultimately the best for the ecosystem um look the government's a a particularly supportive of of the sector and and at the moment it's it's it's probably as as good as it's ever been on that front um and they're always willing to talk to the sector and try and make sure that they're framing Up Programs to help and that's directly through grants and subsidies and various other things and the r d tax incentive as an example but now also through supporting a lot of these programs such as accelerators and educational programs that are bringing on through so it's certainly Victorious very strong in that at the moment they've really been supported over a long period of time I think also too that Victoria as well as having that the ecosystem that Nick was talking about over the med tech development ecosystem in clinical trials Etc is that they've also got a very strong desire to try and build up that manufacturing capability as a long-term value-adding process as well and try to maintain that here it's a it's a difficult ask in in the market but it of course it goes a long way to seeing some of those companies and I think you saw some of them earlier tonight as well too that are actually going that full hog of developing products here locally and then taking them to the world so the governments are very much very much you know amongst all of that if you're to look deeper you'd probably find them everywhere so I think that you know that that presence is is incredibly important particularly as we we trial down the path and increasingly try to get private investment into the sector and that's the biggest challenge that we have over the next five to ten years is making the sector I guess irresistible to the private private money and actually having it coming in yeah I think a couple of comments on that is one Australia we've we're well known for digging up iron ore and minerals and things and sending it overseas well if and and where it gets uh converted into products and then sold back to us right um if we if we continue to do that with our research and innovation um you know for every manufacturing job that exists there are seven peripheral jobs you know we'll get a 100 or a thousand times in return on the investment in our research and Innovation over what we do today by converting those products be able to manufacture here and you while you're not going to make iPhones or the little you know the little birthday cards that sing to you when you open don't think we're going to make those there is a sweet spot where manufacturing here not only makes sense but it's happening here every day right and I don't think people always realize that the other part is without revealing too much how much of your of of the product development business that's here in Australia is actually from overseas clients who see how strong our design and development ecosystem is and they want a part of it whether it's from Asia or Europe or the US uh look I mean you know the answer to this Jeff because you're very much a part of it but uh at the end of the day Australia is a is a a very competent and a very safe area to invest your knowledge and and and to some degree your money in um so there's a high degree of trust with uh with the Australian ecosystem that makes it a really useful um a useful place for potentially springboarding into to Global markets in the US or into Europe or even larger markets in Asia so we find that that's a big part of actually uh you know some of these offshore companies actually talking to us is that there's a very high degree of trust in the the Australian economy and and and the the the the companies that they work with here and I don't think that that's going to change in in the in the the near future there's clearly various um areas of uh unrest if you like in the region that that sort of makes people a little bit nervous about certain jurisdictions um and Jeff mentioned the localization of manufacturing we're seeing we're seeing the start of that I'd we'd probably like to see more of it with onshoring and Sovereign capability development um but at the moment the commercial the commercial drivers are still quite strong uh fighting against that but um definitely we're seeing as Jeff was suggesting that there's that degree of of capability and Trust in the local market where you can invest precious IP of your company into that market and you're in it you can be in it for the long haul you don't feel like you can only do it for a short period of time and then um you know you've got to get out or you've got to ship offshore and go overseas to America and set yourself up there so I'd say that's probably important thank you so I think we're going to shift over in our last set of questions here we've got some definitely got some product some some some emerging product developers and engineers in the room and we're going to address some of their their questions so it's a says uh in the medical device industry is demand for engineering consultancy outpacing the supply for engineering consultancies like yourselves and Hydrox is in the room hello we've got some others around um is the demand for those consultancies outpacing the supply are you growing are you uh are you shrinking are you finding the people that you need look Consulting is always a bumpy road I mean it always has been as long as I've been in it for 35 years um I think probably it it's it's that is going on I mean it's very it's very I guess to some degree down to the companies themselves as to their business development activities their marketing activities um we've always been very um very active on Business Development and marketing of the of the company um and changing the company to to suit the the demands of the market you know the work that we've managed to attract from overseas has been a combination of strategically going out there and pursuing it with a degree of confidence that we could do it um but also to some degree um lucky that that they saw our work we were involved in international design competitions for instance and successful and that was enough to actually attract him to to come and talk to us as well too so we'd like to think that that that export offering was continuing to grow it has been growing over the course of the last five to ten years and we'd like to obviously with initiatives in place to try and see that grow it just takes away that Reliance on the local pie and and the usual competitive nature of it and clearly I think some of the initiatives that are underway at the moment with the government and and the industries in general the Medtech industry in general through universities and the institutes that we're going to see increased numbers of better quality companies coming through that that Pipeline and and I think that that that's certainly you know obeys the uh the industry in a good position to actually service that at the end of the day so I think it's I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that there's there's you know great years ahead there's still a lot of work involved in it but certainly I'd see that those factors are going to see it expand yeah and I've seen it I've seen that companies that I'm talking to are are are significantly expanding in the space and for all the reasons we've talked about not only for What's Happening Here in Victoria and Australia but also demand from overseas there there certainly seem to be a lot more jobs in in med tech or Med devices in in Victoria than there were about today than there were say when I finished and I think that's continuing to grow so I don't think the first Port of Call for for a lot of finishing students now is to look overseas and see what's there I think there's plenty of opportunities here in in the backyard that they can look at first and and certainly um you know it's got to the point where we're trying to get people from overseas because we need more people and need the ones with the right skills and qualifications which which a lot of graduates have so you've queued up the next question perfect very good very good inadvertently but uh but uh well done um so what suggestions do you have for young product designers and and uh or Engineers or others who want to break into that Health Care Health Care design field I think uh one of the first things to do or the best things is to find out what's out there so coming to events like this where you get to see different companies and what they're involved in going to other sessions to just really find out what is available in Australia and I think you'll you'll be surprised I'm always surprised when I come to these to see more Technologies and and companies that that I didn't know before coming so I think looking at that to start with um and I'd be surprised if you didn't find something that interested you here and then it's a matter of just speaking to them and finding out what they do and seeing whether you're suitable for for that role or position but so Gary in your experience not only with dni but others in the design field here um and I'm going to broaden it besides industrial design I'm going to put into electronics and mechanical design and all this um are companies only hiring highly Advanced highly experienced people or are they developing people as well I don't know hey this is we're here for the tough questions folks we're not we're not making our own okay it look it's it's definitely there's a need for you to be um I suppose well informed not necessarily well qualified but there's a lot to learn in in the product design space and and that first five years of of involvement in a consultancy or or even a startup as an example are incredibly steep learning curve from a designer's perspective I'd imagine it's probably simmer in other areas of design as well too because those creative Industries often are seeking out people that have got that first five years under their belt that there's quite a bit of demand for that but you know it's a bit tighter for those first five years um if you can fill that that time you know learning and some designers might go offshore and learn within southeast Asia quite a few do go to Europe or go to North America and and cut their teeth there and some come back with that five years under their belt some may go into industry some might work directly for industry and again some may start their own startup and learn that way as well too so there's a raft of different options that are out there for young designers to cut their teeth now um but look it is it it is to some degree true that that um that there's a we're a bit spoiled for Choice when it comes to recruitment we always bring in interns and that sort of thing but but the reality is as well too is that um you know uh the types of markets and businesses you you do need to know as a designer you do need to know quite a deal about those markets and some of the the specialized um elements of those markets like med tech you do need to have a good background in that to really be if you like um you know beneficial to it to a studio I think I mean my own Journey was as a electrical engineer and mechanical engineer starting out designing washing machine motors then I went on to dry our Motors and then I went on from there to pumps and compressors and then went on from there to it which one of them was a medical device and I started to learn about that and eventually I went on to design lipstick cases and then I went to root buses and then I went to defense and then I but what you're doing is you're developing your skill set it's all transferable electronics are going to have different parameters but they're Electronics mechanical design and materials choices and other things you're building your experience don't think you have to start off designing the next machine brain interface right you don't start there you're going to start off building your skill set so even if you know you want to be get into Health Care design you don't have to start exactly there you can start anywhere if I can go from designing lipsticks to root buses to Over the Horizon radar systems to medical devices you know the the the the it just proves the transferability of those kind of skills yeah I think I'd agree with that um you know it's certainly I think as well it's the a lot of skills can be taught on the job so you don't have to be perfect in the job you're going for but I think having the right attitude of saying I'm here to here to learn here to you know expand my knowledge and bring the knowledge that you you've already got is always going to be helpful yeah and I think um I think uh two pieces advice one to start with something just get started and start building experience and two um and this is something that I find for almost all universally for almost all researchers or stem graduates Etc learn how to network and that's not just because I work for Palm Harbor Network learn how to network it is a it is a skill in and of itself separate to your engineering skill but is um and and that and that is sort of epitomized by the fact that I have ever only found one job in my life online and the rest of them I've found through my own network and that's and most jobs aren't ever advertised and so you really need to learn to Network and and it seems unfair but it's also you want to you want to hire people you like you want to hire people you know and and and that networking really gets you in there and and I'd also just had two particularly for the younger ones you made physical networking not online social media networking as effective as it is um yes there's nothing like actually pressing the Flesh and and meeting people in person no amount of tick-tock dancers are going to get you there so with that um uh one one last uh quick question that to both of you um if you're talking to uh uh uh to your um for yourself Nick if you're talking to yourself when you started this whole process what would be your main piece of advice um actually a few years ago I um I sent myself a postcard that I'd receive a few years in the future to look back and make sure that I was on track and it was quite simple it just just to tell myself to to remind myself who I was doing this for and I think it was important to do that and that can change right you might be doing it for your family or your friends or or all the people you're making the technology for but but I think uh the advice I'd give myself is sort of the same just just make sure you continually check back in with yourself that you're doing what's honest to you that you're still enjoying it still loving it um and and if you are then then you're going to gonna have a much better chance of succeeding and your products are going to be better and you'll you'll have a better time doing it so I think making sure that uh you're honest with yourself that's I suppose that doesn't really help my early self because nothing would have changed but I like the idea that that I've been able to check up on that and I think that's important at least align yourself to where you were when you started the whole thing yeah keep the keep the the reason for for getting it going because it it does take a huge amount of commitment and sometimes along the way you can lose that uh that sort of alignment yeah and I think um you know we've been lucky you've got to surround yourself like you've mentioned by really good people uh that will help you get through the the difficult times of which there are going to be many you want them because that uh a day can grow and get better but as long as you've got a good network of friends or colleagues around you then um you know you can you can overcome anything so I think that's that's really important so if you're looking for a job um you need to interview them as much as they're interviewing you and make sure that's a place that you want to go great and and from DNA perspective from your perspective um where all the researchers and smes and they're coming in to your doors what is the the main piece of advice sort of that you feel like they should try and keep in mind when they come into your door just a tough question I was actually practicing the one you gave him but you can do that one as well we can do that one as well go for it no go for it um we're infinitely flexible around here yeah look I guess it we definitely see um we see younger Founders and and developers probably having a much higher degree of design mentality aesthetic and and and and knowledge um we we generally find some of the older demographic and I'm sorry to sound very ageless but I'm amongst them um that it takes a little bit longer for them to actually start feeling around the whole idea of of actually developing a very strong design aesthetic around their business approach and being far less I guess structured and conservative to some degree so certainly you know we would I would be saying to a lot of those senior managers that are you know in that decision-making process just open yourself up to it a lot more and actually start trying to read a bit more of the the room around design don't just see it as an aesthetic or an add-on that you do to your your business processes actually really try to understand a little bit more about the value that it does bring because it's been proven time and time again with studies and various other programs that it adds value to a business far more than than a lot of management actually do appreciate so we're seeing it we're seeing you know startups coming through with a very strong acidic and and look it's A Hard Road for them but they're succeeding and and their design knowledge and appreciation is is we see far more advanced and and they're leveraging off it and I'd like to see probably a lot more of that appreciation in in some of the more senior managers that I've dealt with over many years well thank you I think we're just about wrapped up here and but I think you know looking back on you know the conversation we've kind of started off in really understanding the translation of technology and the expectations of design and the role of design in in translating technology into a a true product and and we really then got into the whole aspect of um not just what is a design need but what are the factors that go into that internal and external users choosers buyers and how is it fit in with all of your design strategy when went on from there to to look at really um the the role Victoria plays in supporting this ecosystem here which I think is very significant and not only because I'm bio number network but because I work with states around the country there is not another state that comes within a country mile of the support that Victoria provides to the ecosystem here and that that has to be noted because it's it's um it's clearly obvious once you sit in the in in the space that we're in uh and and a little bit of a little touch on advice for some of the young designers who might be watching in or in the room or online today um a little little schmittering of career advice I think was uh to to sort of a cherry on the cake so um so I'd like to to thank one more time Gary and Nick for their time and in preparing for today and also to to come here and talk to all of us about their experience in in in you know medical product design and and the importance of of design in in that journey and uh uh I'm just gonna wrap up here we've got um we do have a a survey that's going to be coming out by email so if you do fill in the survey you're in the running to win a 50 Museum Store voucher so you know get in there uh Museum Victoria has been collecting objects related to health and medicine for over 100 years including objects and stories related to Victorian experiences of the covid-19 pandemic it's fantastic to see them now bring this together industry design education and public audiences in support of med tech as a key growth area within Victoria so with that um I think the next in the series is one on the genetic Rescue of our Fantastic Beasts Wednesday the 19th of July at Melbourne Museum so hope to see you there and with that thank you very much that concludes the event [Applause] [Music] the Museum's Victoria Research Institute is reimagining research going on first peoples and other knowledge systems to expand our understanding of a rapidly changing World we're seeking your support to help make an impact conserving Victoria's most vulnerable native animals using cutting-edge cryopreservation technology working with regional communities to lead Innovative citizen science projects to proactively connect the first people's cultural inheritance which is in our care with the people and Country it belongs to donate today please
2023-09-28