[Music] to grow successive and entrepreneurs we've raised the block learn firsthand from successful business owners and create your own path to success I'm gonna show you how great I am it's time to hit the road to grow with Team lead of the Enriquez group realtor Vinnie hi roach with listeners today I have Dustin uh he is the co-founder of caffeine interactive Technologies um apps website design any other kind of features you guys uh do Dustin no it says really you know he focus a lot on product strategy and business strategy I think that's kind of our differentiator we're not just you know typical Dev agency and so I work with companies on the problems and the value you know trying to bring value to them and the problems that they're trying to solve I mean I know the number right I mean back in the day was how many companies actually don't have websites right that probably has gone up fairly drastically I would think right in the US gone up as far as the number that don't no the well the number that they do now I guess oh yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure I mean if you're running a business and you don't have a website it's either because you just have way too many clients and like having a website is going to create any more problems for you or you know you're just not trying hard I mean they're so simple uh you know we build custom websites so you know we're not ideal for every business if you're a startup that's like you know you've got five thousand dollars your pocket you're just getting going and you're trying to get business cards printed you know all the normal stuff you do with the business like they're way better options than us not to Discount us but you know we're a little different price point but you got options like Wix and you know these website builders that are great options you're just trying to get started if you're a handyman or something like that you know it's a quick website for your business you know I mean super easy ways to to do that for very cheap and you can do it yourself so so let's say the numbers 95 or something like that something high like that right that companies have websites how many have apps because that's I think an intriguing aspect of it that is that like five percent I mean how low is that number yeah that's a good question I don't actually have the numbers I've got to imagine it's probably under five percent though I think you know majority uh you have to usually be pretty established before you start thinking about building some of that custom infrastructure um and then also you know the other question is how do you count the number of companies because like how many people have an LLC they started you know for on the side they work on a full-time W-2 job but they've you know they're doing something else on the side hustling or they have aspirations to do it when do you call out a company you know so thinking about the numbers is kind of difficult but yeah it's I would say it's definitely under five percent would be my guess do you do you think apps are going to go the way of like websites where it's going to be like you have to have an app to uh for people to look you up I don't know I mean since we build these for a living I guess that should say yes but then part of me says No as as a consumer because I I don't like downloading a bunch of apps I don't like every time I interact with the brand I go download an app and so I think there's a there's a tasteful way to to do that I don't think everybody needs an app um I think they're you know there's certainly value to it and we also got to talk about how do you classify an app because I mean we're not just talking about like a mobile app that you're installing your phone an app could even be some you know we think of apps as like any kind of custom software development so it could be things like integrating your your business uh you know the tools you use if you have like the most common thing be like double entry you got like every time we make a sell we gotta go enter this order and over here and you know it's like well can we integrate some of that more you know integration automation that that certainly Falls within our wheelhouse and the kind of things we focus on the problems we try to solve to make business owners lives easier and you know I would call it in some ways that's an app um not kind of traditional sense but you can have internal workflows and internal apps and things like that that you leverage and we've built some of those for customers as well I mean rewinding a little bit kind of going to a young Dustin I mean was young Dustin into computers into like design I mean who is Young Dustin yeah I mean you know I got my first computer I was like seven years old uh my dad was an early so I'm 46 now for reference so you know almost 40 years ago now uh Commodore 64. so that was kind of one of those you know nerdy kids I guess you could say that had access to technology uh at an early age you know I was that was Nintendo generation so you know it was definitely into all the video gaming and stuff like that as a kid I think as I got to be like a teenager uh started realizing well you know computer gaming and stuff was was getting more and more popular at that point in time and so um started realizing well you know I don't have to go buy like a 50 cartridge from Toys R Us or whatever and play with my Nintendo or Super Nintendo or whatever I can go on you know the internet was just coming around but they're also bulletin board BBS as we call them uh back then uh where people were you know you go download games for free granted don't advise this it's highly illegal it's you know copyright infringement do not support this I was a kid I had access to a computer uh had access to a modem with a phone and you know that was a great way for me to to get into the hobby of computers was through through gaming and then it kind of kind of Grew From there um Honestly though I mean getting into software development it wasn't something that I don't know that I really had a passion early on I mean I think I've developed more of a passion over the years but I think it was more something I was just really good at and I had a lot of Hell of exposure to technology and given the fact my dad uh my parents had a software company my dad was building software he had moved over the construction industry and built one of the first estimating tools which he sold to Glidden paint company if you've heard of Glidden I think they're known by by a Home Depot the brand but uh yes I had exposure to that so you know that was kind of my unfair Advantage I guess you could say in terms of you know seeing that at an early age and you know early adopter with the internet and all of that yeah I mean I remember I'm 39 I remember uh you could break your uh I think a Super Nintendo you could download Xbox One Xbox you could break in actually download the game onto the platform and play this on the platform I mean yeah it's really crazy when you go down that rabbit hole but I mean so so you're we have the technology I'm guessing schooling I mean did you have a plan to get into this field kind of growing up or was that more just a hobby and kind of curiosity I think it's more you know as a kid always wanted to I thought I'd be an astronomer for a long time I really liked astronomy and then I thought I would get into like I kind of had a few years where I thought I'd like to get into journalism which you know thank God I didn't know with AI taking on the way it is but um you know I think when I got to college it was kind of like all right I'm good at this I'd already done a lot of software like having to go to high school which you know back then that was 91 to 95 1991 to 95. so most schools I think at the time did not have computer labs um we I went to a school as private school happened to have a computer lab and they actually had a computer science teacher who taught computer science so learned like turbo Pascal uh when I was in high school and so I realized I was pretty good at I remember going we even had like this the nerdy part of me coming out I remember like programming competitions and stuff like that that I think our school signed up for remember going to that and came here I think we may have won I can't really remember uh all the details but it's remember being really good at software development so by time I got to college it was like okay what do I want to do I don't really know but this is something I'm good at I'm just gonna go down this path and then I just kind of stuck with it and you know it wasn't I wasn't interested in it at all um but you know it was a natural path for me just based on my skill set and what I could do well and something I was interested in so you know that's kind of where it came from how did you I mean starting starting interact Technologies caffeine in our Technologies I mean or co-founding it was that a quick jump from from college or was it you're working under someone else's umbrella and then things happen or what happened how did that transition happen yeah actually uh started with um I spent 10 years working in the semiconductor industry uh for a company called serious logic uh they were headquartered in California when I started there and moved to Austin I'm I'm in the Austin area myself uh and so I worked for them for 10 years uh during that time you know they're they're a chip design company uh you make chips for iPhones and things like that so I wasn't a hardware designer though I was uh more on the software side I helped I helped the hardware guys automate a lot of the things that they do and so because I had that software background I was able well actually I majored in computer engineering so I got a little bit of Hardware exposure and software exposure but really my experience was really in software um so I think what happened to me though was being in that job I realized I was kind of capped I'd hit a ceiling where if I wanted to move up more I kind of got into mid-level management but if I really wanted to move any further than that I need to go back and work on maybe an MBA or maybe work on a Masters on an electrical electrical engineering or something like that and I don't know I'm one of those at even today I still occasionally have these vivid dreams that I'm back in school and it's like it's not a good experience for me thinking about sitting in a classroom again like no offense to anyone who's going through that but I just you know I'm a little bit introverted and the idea of going back into a classroom setting and working on a degree just at my age just isn't appealing at all so I didn't want to do it even back you know we're talking about like 2008 2010 so I started doing some side hustles and affiliate marketing um and that was kind of my springboard to get out of the corporate world and start my own thing and I didn't jump straight from the corporate world into our software business I went and was doing some other things some freelancing I mentioned the affiliate marketing thing doing that for a little while and then it just sort of grew into you know as I was doing the freelance work we got enough clients where I had to make decision okay let me start selling people no or I need to start building a team and I decided to go with the ladder and that was back in around 2013 is kind of when I plant the flag of when we started caffeine Interactive the inter introvert aspect of it I mean starting a team and kind of getting people underneath you how was that transition for yourself yeah I don't know it's not that hard I mean there's I'm sure if you did a like personality test of all the you know take all the business in the world successful businesses in the world and look at the the the makeup of the the founders I'm sure there's plenty of introverts out there that have started businesses I think the difference between an introvert and extrovert maybe comes a little more naturally for an extrovert for me I know it doesn't necessarily come naturally speaking and so I have to be intentional about things a little bit more it's a little more of a blind spot for me it's easy for me to get caught up in you know I don't have any meetings today I want to just go hide out in my office and work all day and not really talk to anybody and also it's actually for an introvert I mean you know going through what we've gone through with with covid and now post kind of postcoded world you know all the tools we have for virtual meetings and tools like slack uh for communicating it's kind of a an introvert's dream because I don't have to see anybody in person you know you do everything virtually so I don't want to sound like I'm this big anti-social person although my wife would probably say I am but you know it was uh uh it really wasn't that that difficult I mean a lot in a lot of ways moving transitions into this favored the fact that I was introverted because I was going into a job every day from nine to five walking into conference rooms having meetings all day and stuff like that and you'll be on the mid-level management definitely a lot more meetings than I had when I first started there so moving into doing things on my own actually kind of fed my introversion maybe a little more uh kind of favorite it are most of your your employees local they are you mostly doing online kind of having your Zoom meetings and stuff like that yeah we're all we're Global so we have uh three of us here in the Austin area um including myself but then um you know we have a few other employees scattered throughout the U.S up in the Northeast in particular and then uh we have a development team over in the Philippines uh we have a couple developers also down in Bolivia so um and we've experimented with hiring you know we're not I guess we're kind of partial now to the Philippines we've started hiring quite a bit there and we've had good success finding people that match our culture and our values and so we've just continued to do that the biggest problem with that obviously is the time zone difference I mean I'm in the central time zone being in Texas so it's like literally 12 hours opposite me so um collaborating and getting online at the same time is is sometimes difficult and I'm not the type of person that requires all of our employees to be online from nine to five Us hours I think that's I don't know to each his own I guess I feel like a little bit unethical I wouldn't want to I wouldn't like it if someone asked that of me so we offer that freedom of flexibility for our Filipino employees and I think it it pays off well where they have a little bit overlap with U.S hours we still get on calls but they're working
during the day their time and uh you know and it works well because we we get projects and we load up the work and most interfacing we have with our customers are from our us-based employees so for the most part our offshore employees don't do a lot of customer interfacing so it's not really a big a big challenge for us what was that process of actually hiring uh globally I mean also knowing the laws and the different different countries I've done that myself in hiring different communities I usually he's an Outsourcing company but I mean for yourself what was that process like well I hope we're not breaking any laws I mean uh you know I would say like for us you know we just we treat them essentially like 1099 contractors I guess maybe they don't send them 1099s but we're it's kind of like on a contract basis I guess but we look at them as full-time employees we you know demand some level of exclusivity from them we still have them sign you know ndas and things like that we have uh confidential projects we're working on in some cases our customers have their own uh you know legal agreements that they want uh our employees to sign so it's not uncommon for us to be working with a customer where maybe we have an overall corporate agreement between our company and theirs and then they ask to extend that out to our individual employees who are actually working on that project like you know we have some some customers and Banking and finance industry that we have to do that for because of compliancy issues and things like that so um yeah but you know it hasn't really been hasn't been too difficult I mean maybe in some ways it's actually easier uh hiring internationally um because I don't think there's quite as much much paperwork you know at least from my my pers I don't know my CPA May disagree but from our perspective haven't hasn't been been too painful is it is it do you have a company that you go through or is it posting on different websites in other countries or what do you usually do well so this is a cool little hack so you know there's a few things I do one is uh um there's a website in the Philippines onlinejobs.ph and I don't have any relationship with them hope you're okay with mentioning them but um they're basically just a front end for for interfacing it's like I mean if people are like upwork and sites like that some of the upwork but this focused just on the Philippines and there's some other Regional sites like that Eastern Europe there's you know some some employment sites like that you can find people that's one one way I do it but be quite honest you know one of one of my uh beliefs is that typically people I don't want to generalize things but like if someone's looking for a job it might be because they have a really crappy boss and they just you know they're great employees they want to get away but it also could mean that they're having a hard time keeping their job right and so you know if you're always just hiring for people looking for jobs like you're going to get some good employees we can get some bad apples in there too and so one of the things that I like is doing more of an interrupt driven approach of going out and actually finding people that have jobs and soliciting them as opposed to waiting on them to come to me and so the hack I guess if you call it would be using LinkedIn and sales navigator to go and you know filter down a list of people with certain skill sets within a certain geographic region for example and then there's automation tools which I will like if any of your listeners use this and get in trouble with LinkedIn do not come blaming me I'm warning you right now but there are automation tools uh out there that you can use it'll help you like go in and let's say you build a list and sales Navigator you can download that list and then go Prospect to them in this case it's a little better than maybe prospecting trying to sell stuff because you're trying to offer people jobs and so I think people are a little more receptive to that than if you're going out trying to like cold spam you know a bunch of people on LinkedIn um but uh that's been a pretty successful way to find people that already that are maybe already comfortable but if you catch them at the right time and whispering in their ear hey there's an opportunity here and this is what we do and by the way we have a lot of flexibility and working with the US company we don't require you know with different things we we kind of you know ties them with and that it's been good we've been able to hire some really great employees that way is sales navigator that is that a CRM that is the uh it's like kind of a corporate what would you call it it's part of LinkedIn but it's basically um it gives you access you have to pay a subscription to it I think it's like I don't remember the price it's like 80 bucks a month or something like that but you get a subscription it allows you to go and do searches like you can you can search on people's profiles and you know find people that are uh you know forget how they you know how many degrees of separation you are and stuff like that and how you can reach out to people the sales Navigator gives you the opportunity to be able to go and filter people you can do all kinds of things filters on geographic regions you can filter based on job title years of experience um keywords like for us we do you know for example we do like for simple websites we're trying to hire someone for that might be like WordPress we'll go do a keyword search for WordPress developers in the Philippines um you know and pull back a list from that and then go through and you know massage that list pick out you know who we want to go Prospect to about a job opening that we have and then go start up the automation tool and it starts going to town for us so do you you constantly have a flow of like prospecting for new team members and then when you need them you reach out to them is that kind of how it works pretty much I mean we're not we're not so busy that we're constantly hiring we typically do have some kind of opening but um you know we I don't I don't know I'm one of those that believes you need to when you hire you need to like absorb that hire and kind of let them assembly kind of grow and should it be higher too quick grow too quick you can have all kinds of problems from that right so um you know we're a small team or just under 25 employees I think total so uh you know we're not we're not like constantly hiring and as a matter of fact most of our employees have been with us for uh you know quite a long time um we had one employee that was with us like seven years and left for like six months because someone threw a bunch of money he just came back and I was like so happy because I'm like all right we still have that continuity we're kind of keeping our staffs together with like how long we've kept employees around where people are loyal to us and we're loyal to them um but yeah I mean we're you know we're always in growth mode and wanting to be in growth mode so you know that that's it's well it may not always be running you know at least once every two or three months I'm going out doing prospecting to find a new hire for for some need that we have okay makes sense I mean so in building your brand and building your company I mean we're looking back I mean what are some of the big things you've had to like overcome to get where you are today um gosh I mean certainly Building Systems and processes I'm I'm big on that I don't feel like my our company always reflects that I think we can always do a better job on that but just building out those systems and processes and figuring out how to to do those things and you know mentioned earlier I think we're talking about journalism or something I mentioned AI like as that comes into play now you know that's kind of reshuffling the deck again and there's a lot of great opportunities out there to automate your business and so that's something that has been a big focus of mine a big challenge to find ways to just like how do we handle relationships with customers we do a lot of agreements where we might have a customer who's on retainer uh which means basically you know they're paying for a bucket of hours and we're supporting them we need to have some accountability around how we're using the retainer and we have employees working on their projects we need to run the reports and so how do we do that what tools do we use where are the gaps that we need to go build you know additional software and we have it and at times built our own internal tools to help us with some of that interfacing with our customers so that's been a big challenge that's another challenge is the fact that you know we're a husband and wife founded company so my background is in building software my wife's background is in product strategy as a as a product manager not project manager I want to be clear on that product manager um and so we have we have the technology side covered really well but we don't have covered really well as sales and marketing which is okay because overwhelming the majority of our clients come through referrals uh which you know speaks to the fact we're doing a good job at least I think we're doing a good job with our clients and you know they're reciprocating by referring us out to to their friends and co-workers and everything else and so uh but you know I've always envisioned being able to have almost like a spigot I can go turn on and leads come falling out and then when we fill up our pipeline it's all full we turn it off and we go you know do that work and when we need more leads we turn the spigot back on again and we haven't quite figured that out and uh I'm oversimplifying it of course but that's something that I'm not a marketing guy neither is my my wife so that's something that we've had so there's been a challenge for us to build out those those resources and that that ability um you know and I've tried things like Outsourcing it hiring a marketing company to come in and help us with with certain things and we have some marketing resources on our team and we we do some lightweight marketing ourselves you know if you look at our website you'll see we actually advertise marketing services but be quite honest you know that's really kind of like most website agencies that go out and we have to have some marketing knowledge in order to be able to build successful websites and successful products for our customers but if someone's wanting to do like a deep dive on SEO or something like that that's not something that that we necessarily do we have partners that we work with who help us with those sort of things but that's been a big big difficult for I kind of got off track there but that's been a big problem for us just the fact that we like us as co-founders we're not sales people and I think when you start a business the number one thing you have to do is be able to sell and so that's something that I kind of ignored for a long time and I finally something had kind of the kick in the butt a couple years ago realized this is something that as a business owner I have to do I've got to be good at selling got to be good at marketing um doesn't mean I don't Outsource or hire people to help me with that but I have to be I have to be able to do that and you know so I've taken on that challenge what's the what's the mindset of the process I mean if it's down the road where you bring on this this marketing agency or marketing individual right because it seems like most likely you brought on I mean it may be separately from like your your uh financial advisor or your financial department most of these people are kind of under under the pyramid I guess under under you and kind of you've already kind of walked their steps and especially with the sales aspect of it I mean especially if you don't like it too much and most of us it's been referral based you're gonna have to almost give freedom I guess to to that individual yeah and I don't know it's necessarily I don't like it I mean there's an element of that I guess but like I think it's just something I've had to accept as part of the job and rather than looking at it as like this uh you know this burden on me I've I've embraced it more as a challenge and when I look at it through that light it's it's excited me um you know I mean we've done things like I've hired like a sales coach a team that that helps us with kind of outside counsel when we're thinking about how to Market ourselves and how to position ourselves um I'm a you know early on we uh we tried hiring a marketing agency and uh paying them like five thousand dollars a month and we didn't get a single lead out of that we did it for like 12 months and I don't know why we did it for that long but I you know I had like a bitter taste in my mouth from that experience I was just like I don't really want to want to do that again and so I realized that you know we're successful when we hire developers because I know how to do do software development my wife the co-founder she knows product strategy and she knows uh you know product and building products and requirements and all that so should we when she makes a hire she knows how to hire the right people because of that experience and so my mindset is that I don't think you necessarily have to be a marketing expert in order to build a marketing team or in order to hire people to build a marketing team you have to have enough experience in order to know if people are bsing you you know the whole world of marketing there's so many different angles and directions you can go and so you know you back then I thought well I'll just throw some ads on Facebook or LinkedIn or wherever and like leads will format well it's not that easy especially in something like what we do which is very commoditized websites and apps I mean there's not you know there's not a lot of Industries more commoditized than that so um you know we got to find ways to stand out and find channels to to get our message out and differentiate ourselves from just the other agencies that are out there just you know that are Hired Guns that will go build whatever you want them to build and that's been a challenge for us but it's important for us and our growth because we got to do that and like who are we going to Outsource that to I mean it has to come ultimately I think that has to come from from the founders and so I've kind of Taken on that challenge where do you see the growth I mean if we're talking next five years where do you see the growth in with yourself in the company that's a good question I think with all the no code stuff AI stuff coming into play you know I think everyone's kind of a little bit concerned about what's going to happen uh I've always thought that any industry like this is going to get more and more commoditized you know websites have definitely gotten that way um they're still a strong need for custom website development but um I think there will be more and more options you know a system like WordPress there's a huge ecosystem of plugins and the theme Frameworks and stuff that are out there for WordPress now you can easily throw up a WordPress site drop in some plugins and create a pretty custom experience just off the shelf without having any coding experience um I think that's going to continue to happen on the app development side uh so I think where I see us in terms of growth it's trying to get more on top of not just building out products and doing custom development but really becoming partners with with our customers and being being strategic partners with them so understanding where their pain points are and where we can bring value to them and strategizing around how they can be successful we not where they have needs we may not be able to fill all of those like they may need to have some strong marketing needs we may identify they need to go get help on you know with certain certain type of marketing agency to do some sort of initiative for what it is they're doing but if we can be there to be that resource to help them solve their problems even if it's not us if we're working with other partners that's where I see us having you know provide more value because if you're just a Hired Gun sitting out there and waiting for the next contract to come in to go build something for someone and they're calling all the shots telling you what to build and you're just saying yes you know I think that's something that's going to go away more and more over time it's going to get harder and harder to to compete in that in that space uh before I forget Dustin what's the best way of people reaching out to you if they have questions about website ad design or any other products you guys offer yeah best way just go to our website caffeine interactive.com fill out the form we're a small company so I see a resubmission even the spam stuff that I see on there so just go there and you know fill out the form that's easy way like my email address Dustin the caffeine interactive.com uh Happy sharing that as well I think I've got my contact info on our website as well so that's that's the easiest way to reach me question do you guys uh only do websites for companies or apps for companies uh us-based no I would say 98 of our customers are us-based uh we're not necessarily opposed to working internationally we have an international team so obviously you know we're fulfilling the work internationally um yeah that's not a limitation for us so just we don't we don't tend to venture too far outside the US when it comes to marketing um so we've as a result of that we just haven't had a lot of customers worldwide do you I mean with the small companies that you have worked with outside the U.S is there a a theme that varies from like the like us-based website site because for example I was talking to a realtor in Europe and her usually her competition is about seven days on return returning emails and and calls and so that was one of the things that she had to uh change to focus on american-based individuals so I'm wondering if it'd be similar in like apps and websites where it doesn't have to be as I got to get them in the first five SEC five to ten seconds or something and then they're gonna leave me is do you see that stuff in the the small the other company you've done outside the US you don't know if we've had enough experience outside you know I said 98 are in the US and I'm sitting here trying to think of who we've had internationally I'm remember we had a a client who had a real estate website and this is probably four or five years ago uh and um so yeah I don't I don't know that I have a big enough sample size with that and I guess that's probably also why like you know that's one of the challenges like when people think about let's just take a step back here and talk about building apps for example like if you're gonna go higher this is a problem you hear all that we see all the time you Outsource uh your app by day you go find someone who will build it for pennies on the dollar uh offshore well one of the problems you have is just like special like real estate for example you know just explaining stuff like how does how does the address system work in the United States like what is the street address what is the zip code you know those sort of things it's like those basic things that are like part of our culture here in the US and they have their own system it's not like it's completely different outside of the US but everyone you know zip code may be a foreign concept to someone in the in the Philippines for example right um and so and there's a lot of things like that it's kind of just get lost in translation so I think that's also important because if you're if you're a European company and you're catering to you know European customers I mean go hire someone in the US and I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea but there are probably some some things about the cut you know in order to solve this problems I think we need to not only understand problems that the companies happen but the problems they solve for their customers and if I'm not there you know living in Germany or whatever where they're serving clients then you know I'm I'm already at a little bit of a disadvantage again it doesn't mean I can't help them but or that anyone in the U.S couldn't help them but
it's just it's it's just one of those variables that you have to consider I think if you're you know if you're over in Europe or wherever else and you're looking to hire someone uh doesn't mean always you need to get local but uh you know sometimes there's some advantages to that so local I mean I guess locally then I mean being there in Austin but you have people across the U.S I mean how does it change from community community in the US does it change that much how websites are designed layouts of it or what kind of research goes into I guess you assessing the company and then kind of figuring out what's the best strategy for them um I mean it's it's largely the same I mean I guess it depends on the product and you know the the vertical that they're in um I think that's probably the more differentiator because we work with a wide variety of Industries and so you know sometimes different Industries have just weird Oddball kind of things that we have to learn on the fly if we're not experienced with that industry if we are experienced with that industry it puts us in a position of advance of an advantage so I think that's probably a bigger uh concern than say geographical but like even from a geographical perspective it still comes up because there's things like gdpr and like cookie policies and stuff that we hear a lot about now and California has their own policy that's specific to California that you know California websites need to adhere to some extra things that others don't and there's you know certain regions where yeah I think accessibility is a big thing with uh the Americans with Disabilities Act uh we're hearing more and more about people who may put up a website and then just like if I go open a restaurant I've got to have like handicap access and ramps and stuff for people who are disabled to be able accessible the same concept applies if your website is your storefront you know you need that needs to be accessible and there's a lot of questions a lot of gray areas here but there have been some some known and publicized lawsuits around you know people who have sued because they they go to the website and the website's not accessible I think there's a lot of scare tackers going on with this too companies like like ours we don't necessarily do this but companies like that do what we do going around telling people like your website's not accessible you'd be sued for you know tens of thousands of dollars unless you hire us to come fix it right it's like that doomsday thing right and so that comes up from time to time too uh but you know from our perspective uh you know we we don't necessarily lead with that but those can create some geographical differences you know from from reach in the region well thank you so much uh Dustin uh for being on the the roach with podcast um yeah I appreciate you being here telling you a person a kid from playing video games to uh to building apps and uh websites what more could you want uh thank you again Dustin everyone hopefully you got some great nuggets right there uh please go in uh the show notes go find Dustin subscribe and share bye everyone [Music]
2023-05-15