GPG Outbrief 25 Lightweight Quad-Pane Windows

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well hello everyone and welcome to today's webinar  of an assessment of lightweight quad pane windows.   before we get started i'm going to  review just a few webinar logistics   today's webinar is based on an evaluation  by the national renewable energy laboratory   and you can find the full report as  well as summary documents on gsa.gov   and we'll also be posting links to  these documents in the zoom chat window today's webinar you'll be all in listen only mode  and you can submit questions by using the q a   button on the bottom of your screen and you don't  need to wait until the end of our presentations   to submit questions in fact we encourage you  to submit questions well in advance of the q a   session today's webinar is being recorded and  will be shared and you can find presentation   slides and recordings for all webinars on our  webinar page at gsa.gov and you can also access   all of our webinar recordings from past webinars  on our youtube channel and we're pasting links   now into the chat for both our webinar page and  for the youtube channel and with that i'd like   to turn it over to kevin powell the director of  the center for emerging building technologies   thank you andrea and it's great to see  so many of you here on this webinar um so   uh just a few notes about what we're going to  be doing on this webinar first i'm just going   to offer some some overarching uh comments  that will put this technology in context   then we'll hear from our researcher kasal kia  riyam watana who led our evaluation who can really   who will really describe what kind of performance  we have seen and i think it's something that   you'll find quite exciting we'll follow that with  uh some on the ground feedback from tyler cooper   who's our supervisory energy project manager  in region 8 and led the field uh on valuation   of this um technology from gsa's end and then  really the most important part of this webinar is   you and it's the q and a the questions  that you put forwards and that will   be able to uh provide some some hopefully  some insightful answers too uh next slide so um i have to say that we've had 80 technologies  that have been selected for evaluation   and validation um through our green proving  ground program and uh none are more exciting to me   personally than this one uh and that's  really because really the windows remain   the the really the biggest obstacle um to  making our buildings more energy efficient   and really are the key to all of our net zero  goals up till now windows really have not   had anything like the performance of a wall  so the most efficient building would be a   building with no windows who wants to work in  that kind of environment um back 30 years ago when   when uh double blazing was state of the art lbnl  came up another national lab with an idea of how   to make a highly insulating window um they  they manufactured it they proved out that   you could do it uh the problem was it couldn't  cost-effectively uh make to make that sort of   window and so what's super exciting about this  particular technology is that for the first time   what we actually have is a window  that has the kind of essentially   has the insulating performance of a wall and  yet of course is completely transparent you   can look through it um and it is really not  that much more expensive than a double um   dominant double pane window same form factor  similar kind of weight and uh we think again   it'll really be a transformational technology so  we're excited to share that with you next slide um   this uh this uh the the research that um underlies  this uh is available on our website um at gsa.gov   gpg you can find the full evaluation as well as a  summary document as well as a one-page infographic   that can help you communicate these results  to others and communicate them to yourselves i   should note that this uh this particular webinar  is focused on this lightweight quad pane window   this is a window that is appropriate to new  construction and major renovation where you're   replacing um either replacing or installing  windows um you know to fit in a frame there   is the same company has a similar essentially the  same core technology in a different form factor   as a window insert that's a lightweight easy to  install and easy to remove panel that can fit   in front of your existing window we just released  results on that and we're going to have a webinar   on that technology separate webinar in march and  uh with that i'm going to turn this over to casal thank you very much kevin uh good morning and good  afternoon to wherever you are my name is kosovo   get runwatena i'm a researcher at the national  renewable energy laboratory i've been with enroll   for 12 over 12 years and then before that with a  consulting firm uh for another 11 years or about   25 25 years of experience um today i'm going to  be presenting the um our research work and that we   conducted this study over the last year and  a half almost two years with the covet and   again this is the highlight of this  study it's a lot of detail of like the   findings and then the criteria of this study  a lot more so i encouraged anybody who would   like to learn more in detail to check out the  full report for more detail next slide please again what what's what make it the um uh  attractive choice uh uh what's what's the   lightweight you know quad paint windows the quad  pin as the name is basically you know comprises   with four panes of the insulated uh material and  then in the fiberglass frame and then with the   um inert gas field usually either argon or krypton  uh in this case we use a krypton gas field and uh   the thing that make it the magic of the  lightweight is the um the inner inner pains inside   uh it's gonna be either the thin glass technology  um then uh or the suspended film and then with the   spacer insulated spacer that's you know in between  approximately performance thermal performance   it's rh full frame so when we compare with the  energy star windows which is only about r3 um   so it's this significant improve on the  energy efficient thermal performance there is   installation you know because of this uh  lightweight material and then uh it's the   form factor the profiles basically can be fit  and it's very similar to a double pane windows   and when compared with the weight it's basically  50 percent uh lighter than the standard triple pin next slide please so what make it so appealing you know the um lightweight high efficient and versatile  applications you know of this technology   uh because of the uh for example with the  thin thin glass you know the thin glass has   the price has dropped significantly uh you know  this thin glass technology has been used with the   smartphones and the flat screens tv and it's very  popular make it the price come down significantly   year by year uh the uh krypton uh krypton gas  you know like i mentioned that's a lot of like   insulate it's rating uh windows they often fill  with the uh in the gas you know either argon or   krypton krypton used to be very expensive  but with the um the price you know come down   significantly um and krypton is the  um also one of the best choice uh   for the gas field you know with the six times  denser than argon you know approximately 12   times denser than air so the um in term of  like insulating property it's uh significant   um the thin glass technologies you know  can be used without frame uh you know with   frame or without frame so it can be um  used as as the curtain wall applications   and also the units with the thin glass can be made  for blast resistance as well next slide please um so this is like kind of a high level we kind of  show you a real quick the comparisons of this uh   thermal performance you guys  pretty familiar with these the terms you know you factor all the r values that  you factor basically the lower is the better   in terms of thermal performance like you know  invertedly same thing with the r values that the   higher number is the the better um it's rating  property so when you're looking at this uh with   the high performance double pin uh the r value  approximately 3.1 the high performance double   pane i want to mention though that this is a  minimum minimally uh requirements for the new gsa   for new construction so this is the minimum  requirements so approximately 1.1 3.1 and this  

is energy star so compared to like you know triple  pane 6.7 and then the quad pin uh at 8.3 um from   the manufacturers uh as they mentioned that's  the the incremental cost between the triple pane   and the quad pane is approximately five to seven  percent so make it um a big significant benefits   in term of like you know improve a performance at  the small incremental cost so next slide please so when we compare compare comparing like you know  these two technology the thin glass expanded films   they're both providing superior performance uh but  just wanna showing you that uh with the cost trend   um the with the thin glass is slightly cheaper but  however it's slightly uh heavier anyway when we   talk about heavy again this is lightweight super  super lightweight for both technology and another factor about it is the condensation resistance  condensation i'm going to go in more detail   you know in general these both  windows providing a superior   uh condensation resistant that could happen  uh in the climate zone co climate zone   and both uh can the solar heat gain uh coefficient  both can be customized and one thing about these   suspended film units can can be made and meet  the tempered glass requirements next slide please so um with our research for the  demonstration and technology validation   we conducted at a denver federal  center building 41 in denver colorado   so people who might familiar with this building is  basically it's it's a large office building and we   uh conduct it in uh one of a wing in  the west side so next slide please so um we have installed um total of 10 uh windows  you know five from the thin glass the unit and   five for the suspended films we install monitoring  equipment sensors to measure glass frames   surface temperatures space conditions outdoor  conditions and we use uh information of the window   from the manufacturer build the doe the model in  the doe windows and term software that's uh this   is the two key software that's uh widely used in  the in the industry and also in the researcher   and even the nfrc also use these two when they  calculate and estimate the thermal performance   and then we use the uh the results that we will  calibrate with the measured data that we have   once like we calculate these thermal  performance indices we use these uh performance   numbers and then modeled the whole  building energies simulations and for calculated hvac capacity reductions energy savings  and the economics of the projects so on the right   hand side there's a lot of like you know pretty  busy but i wanna you know showing that a lot of   data and we have to uh doing the monitoring the  whole the long period of time but you know with   the um num uh only a certain um data that will be  used as like you know uh to meet the criteria when   they calculate these thermal performance  just wanna show you so next slide please   um so this is like a high level  like you know modeling results   um so um the key uh simulated results you know the  u-factor the solar heat gain coefficient visible   light transmitting uh condensation resistance  uh hopefully hopefully like you know some of you   pretty familiar with this term but let me know if  you wanna uh me to kind of go over uh during q a   uh for this uh information as you can see that's  you know these both windows providing a great um low you factor or you value and then as well as  like you know all these numbers match pretty well   very well i don't want to say pretty well it's  very well uh between the uh modeling results   and also the with the measured data on the right  hand side this is showing the thermal modeling   showing the two-dimensional heat transfer you know  temperature profiles that's happening within the   windows and then a pretty small number showing  that you know a small font showing the number of   the predicting temperatures you know in this at  the surface temperatures with inside and outside   uh very precisely so we feel very confident  on the results of this model next slide please so um this is another another study that we do  you know thermal comfort is it's a big thing   when we're talking about um you know besides  like energy savings right so because it's   thermal comforts mean a lot of like many  things on the saving productivities etc   um so you can see from the right hand side this is  the plot this is a measured data that we have with   the uh the actual data during very very cold uh  days uh in the winter um you know with the outdoor   temperatures at the approximately 22 degrees  fahrenheit you can see with the set point in   size approximately 69 to 70 degrees and the center  of glass the temperature is showing it's holding   the temperatures really well you know between 65  to 60 66 degrees you know when we compare to like   uh a lot of the time even you have your office  or like you know at your house you touch on your   window surface you can feel the cold cold whole  surface of those windows so this window is like   holding the temperatures really really well what  does mean on like you know warmest window surface   you know technically it's reducing a lot of  like convective and radiative heat transfer   effect when we talk about this this term you know  when that's mean like when you're sitting into   like next to the window you feel draft you know  drafty window that's what they're talking about   right so with the warmer surface you reduce a  lot of draft drafty feeling uh sit next to it   and uh with the results like you know we conducted  like thermal analysis like follow the ashrae 52   a lot of detail in the full report so i  encourage uh people who are interested   and uh to look into more uh to look into the  full report and the majority of the conditions   that were within the comfort batteries  uh during our study so next slide please so this is an additional uh benefits of this  type of technologies you know besides like the   entity savings that you would get um also with  the new construction you know with a better   uh building envelope you know that means you're  reducing your uh thermal loads you know both   on heating and cooling so this is another  additional for the new construction when   you sizing your hvac means you can downsize your  hvac capacity and also with the major renovation   if your major renovation happening on the hvac  and then the building envelope at the same time   you can take out the benefits of like  downsizing your hvac as well so from our study   uh it's showing that um the uh hvac capacity uh  reductions you know uh we we got approximately 8   for the heating and up to 18 for the cooling and  with the estimated savings of the projects is uh   hundred and approximately  thousand dollars of savings or   about six thousand dollars you know  analyze over 20 years so next slide please so condensation again condensations  uh this is a rating that's   you know in the if you're looking at the an  frc level you see this uh type of rating uh   it it's not necessarily required but it's a  such good information when you're selecting   the windows particularly with in the cold climate  you know in the industry it's recommended that the   condensation uh resistant rating um you know  ranging from zero to 100 you know the higher is   better they recommended a minimum of 50 for the  core climates and from our studies it's showing   that this window have the condensation resistance  rating at between 65 and 67 one interesting thing   about is like we are even expecting a higher  number particularly with the thin class unit   with the time constraint after during the  study uh somehow the unit was built with uh   still a spacer and instead of like you know  a warm edge especially that will improve   uh overall performance and as well as the  compensation resistance and uh the manufacturer   estimate that uh it could get up to a cr of  80 in in the in that study next slide please so when we talk about the energy  savings you know we conducted these uh   simulations uh studies uh and using the uh doe  uh commercial reference building flash office you   know all the building envelope and then all the um  anything that climate sensitive was you know get   into this model uh that we take into account and  then we uh run the analysis for these ten climate   zones um you know from the uh hot climate hot  and humid climate to like a pretty cold climate   and the results showing uh  significantly improvements significantly higher savings than you know um uh a typical  uh double pin so you know high efficient   double pin windows uh we also modeled this uh  with the gsa utility rates three different uh   three gsa utility rates you know at the low  mid level and then the high level and this   results showing for the mid level but again  all the results is more detailed can find it   and can be found in the report um you can you  can see we're looking at the heating savings   cooling savings fan saving combines we call it  you know hvac uh energy savings um uh absolutely   like you know for the heating saving we see more  um energy savings you know for the cold climates   uh versa with the cold uh cooling that we  see more uh in the warmer climate overall   um we we're seeing the total um percentage  of energy savings uh uh average about 24 24   and the payback uh within two years and  again this is like comparing with the uh   high efficient double pane windows and  reusing the incremental cost for this analysis   this number meant to be like providing your  results i know that a lot of us like sometimes   we use this as like you know a rule of thumb so  um this is like you know meant to be showing uh   for your screening you know it's it's very good  still very very useful for your screening but   when we're looking at the actual performance  energy savings i encourage like you know the   energy uh modeling for particular buildings  that you are working on is necessary that's   why like you know it's because it's so unique to  the building but this is meant to be like you know   a screening and you can see that it's such  a attractive uh choice uh choices uh for the   um energy efficiency  improvements uh next slide please so in summary again this is like the  number it's for our climate zone for   our um utility rates you know you can  it's ranging the savings uh we see   is between 19 to 34 percent you know compared  to the high performance double pane windows   and uh the side benefits can reduce your hvac  capacity requirements for the buildings you know   downsizing the units and then um you know with  the benefits of the slim uh profiles you know it's   the same very similar similar thickness uh you  know comparable weight to the double pin windows   and uh you know with this uh superior um thermal  performance it's improved the occupants uh comfort   uh uh significantly and then like um with um a  slightly incremental cause you know in between   we talk about like 2.50 cents to 4.50 cents  when compared with the double pin windows   and the payback it's uh it's really really good  the uh one to six years and making this the technology that's one of the appealing options uh   for your projects for your  improvements the projects next slide please okay okay um uh and then  i'm gonna pass the the presentation to tyler   cooper uh from the gsa thank you thanks gazal  and with that we'll go next slide hopefully   so um yeah one of the key highlights from this  um one to highlight is the fact that the uh these   quad pane windows are an identical uh pretty much  identical installation and replacement compared   to a typical double pane window so going through  the installation process you'd go through the same   same measurements same removal of the existing  windows as well as the same installation of the   new windows with that said they are the same  weight and then you look at the standard triple   pane window um 50 lighter than that with the  window that is made of standard glass you look   at potential use cases for these we're pretty much  going to see it across the board it's got fixed   insulations ribbon strip large punched openings  as well as window wall installations the primary   application that we would see these for would be  obviously new construction retrofit but within   that we'd still apply them they've got use cases  for residential scenarios commercial buildings   as well as industrial and high  performance buildings too next slide so these windows were originally stalled in  building 41 in the fall of 2019 so we had about   roughly four months of actual occupant feedback  prior to covid hitting and all of our workers   going home working from home at that point so that  kind of impacted the study results a little bit   from the oxford feedback side with that said we  did get some good results from the winter months   and four out of five occupants recommended  the window retrofit going to these spot paid   windows the previous windows we had installed  and building 41 were a mix of electrochromic and   thermochromic windows in this area so so within  that um through the nature of these we've got a   steady performance year round with those um  much more visually appealing compared to a   thermochromic or an electrochromic window that  is modulating maintain those characteristics um   within that one of the big things that we've seen  regardless of installation is that if you've got   direct sun clearing down on windows you are still  going to have some ultimate discomfort if there   aren't lines in place but we'll still maintain  that thermal performance of the windows next slide the best practices as casal mentioned one of  the things we're trying to optimize for this is   working through optimizing our building  envelope within that upgrading these you're   pretty much bringing windows equivalent to the  performance of the overall building envelope   which does allow us to go through and  lower the um lower the capacity needed   on our hvac equipment for the buildings  which is the net first one of the first   steps in going towards our net zero energy goals  within that the window configuration these are   highly customizable windows based on the needs  of your building in the climate zone you're in   we can optimize as mentioned optimized for that  solar heat gain coefficient if you are in a   heating dominated climate you're going to want a  window with a higher solar heat gain coefficient   compared to a cooling dominated climate where you  want one with a lower solar heating coefficient   block the heat gain more effectively and keep that  cooling in your building along with that we can   also modify the visible light transmittance  based on needs of the occupants um as well   as number other characteristics but within  that the overall goal is making sure we're   getting the windows specified to get the  highest performance in the building next slide so within that the overall deployment  recommendation for these windows   is new construction and end of life replacement  they're still there they are a capital project in   that sense as most window projects are within  that though they are supporting our net zero   carbon emissions goals we're not going to get to  net zero emissions in our buildings without first   improving the envelope and making sure that we  have the building performing at the highest level   uh with the current pricing  the thin glass configuration is   more cost effective saul mentioned that's  about 250 to 2.50 more per square foot   compared to the conventional double  pane high efficiency double pin windows the inverse of that is the suspended film  version which does offer more selection   than the actual films you use the low e  coatings and provides better uv protection   when that's when that's needed as we mentioned  previously the film version is also lighter about   a pound per square foot lighter compared to thin  glass then within that mentioned these are end of   life replacements if we do have lower performing  windows be it double pane windows or single pane   windows which hopefully we're eliminating most of  those out of our portfolio at this point there's   another couple options that we've considered  first being secondary window inserts we've had   great success with those and we'll actually be  talking about those at a future webinar in march   those have a lower upfront initial cost  it makes those good based on if you aren't   looking to replace the windows for another 10 to  20 years or so kind of that intermediate stop gap   solution as well as going to and applying  the lowy film on the existing windows both   secondary options that you can consider  rather than going to a full window replacement   and with that next slide and i think we'll take  it back to andrea to start a question and answer   great uh thank you tyler um we do have a  lot of questions thanks uh thanks for all   those um i'm sure we're not gonna get to  all of them we'll get to as many as we can   and we will be sending out an email afterwards  with the top questions and and any answers that   we can't answer um right now we'll get back to  you so um first first question um how does the   long-term durability compare to standard  igus i think either casal or tyler you can   probably answer that yeah this this window we  expect to be a similar in term of uh durability   and then longevity of the units you know  the windows in general estimate uh to last   at least 20 years so we can expect like you know  the at least like 20 years um you know in use   so okay great tyler you have anything i'm sorry  no thanks no i concur with that because okay um so   how does view distortion on a quad pane  window compare to that in a dual ping window that's that's an interesting question uh thank you  um the however like you know when we're looking at   uh visually we didn't see anything  but again like you know the um   with uh even though with uh suspended theme that  people might think that wow how can you like you   know making the films like the company making  the magic you know we look we didn't see any   distortions um that might happening at  the extreme angle i i would expect maybe   a little but as in term of like you know we didn't  notice any any distortion great thank you from a   visual inspection of that you have to physically  be within probably a foot of the window to even   see the film or the suspended glass there so you  that's um if you're looking at it from a distance   they look identical to the standard double  pin window installation that's really good yep   thank you um can this technology be  incorporated with bullet resistant glass   that's you know when we talk about blast  resistance um it's definitely can be from   we talked about um that means like you know i'm  i'm pretty sure but we'll talk about super thick   windows laminated you know whatever laminated  they will put for that beat the bullet um that's   that's information uh maybe have to work  directly or consult it directly with the   manufacturer as far as like you know with this  uh a typical uh application that we are having   i would say that it might provide some blast  resistant but in term of bullet resistant i'm   not i'm not sure yet but we can you know hopefully  find more information okay um that's right it's i   guess you're right that's blast resistance and  then bullet resistance we know that they're   they we can work on them with blast resistance and  i think we'll probably get back to you on the on   the bullet resistance um is there any concern  about krypton leakage um can you comment on the   window construction or design to assure tightness  and long-term integrity yep uh i uh for this   krypton or argon you know in in general  like um a lot of people that this is maybe a   a bad play press in the in the old days that  people think oh it's gonna leak and then what's   happening and then like it it's gonna leak i mean  like you know it's it's gonna leak eventually   but when we talk about it in the study independent  study looking at the leakage is pretty minimal   we can estimate like approximately one  percent per year that means like you know   the window lasts about 20 years a minimum um you  probably in the 20 years you're still holding   at least 80 approximately 80 and then the  manufacturers say like at least 80 you know   about 80 you still get a a lot of benefit of this  inner gas in between so um we look into it i don't   think it's not a big factor you know with this and  then the um you know you know with the warranty   and with everything um you know it's we feel  pretty confident that you know it's pretty minimal great um because the windows  are lighter and thinner   thinner um are the standard quad  pane windows as heel resistant um hair resistant or not it's like basically on  the in outer pane an outer pin is a standard glass   so i would expect that you know a similar  hair resistant um that you would expect with   a standard double pin you know definitely a graph  size you know a golf ball size probably not but i   think in in a certain level great um could this  could this technology be used to replace glass   and existing casements like okay uh when we talk  about the existing placement here's one thing   when we uh because of this window uh comes comes  with uh a very good frames fiberglass frame that   makes it like you know the frames uh heat loss  is significant in general for the windows when we   talk about the center of glass of these windows  center of glass performance we're looking at   over r10 business but once like you know combined  with everything it's coming down to about r8   and means that you know the framing uh the edge  heat loss is significant so a better frame is   better so i would um in terms of like you know can  be fit into like existing of course because this   can can work even from the frameless you know  uh uh configuration but i would recommend if   you would like to get the full performance you  know better performance maybe framing changing   the whole testament is a better idea great um well  a couple people commented on that the research was   kind of limited it didn't have research in the  northeast and other regions i know because there's   other research in the report um other cities  are modeled so there's there's more we have more   research is that correct yeah that's correct and  the thing is like you know we we want to be also   very consistent you know with what's uh a gsa in  term of the uh building um stock you know a lot   of like the gsa building stock uh within this  climate zone however we have some uh expanding   some resource like you know to cover our climate  zone as well but the result will represent things   specifically for gsa great thank you cassahl  um are these windows commercially available   in large sizes like curtain walls i think you  mentioned that or only are they only for smaller   residential windows this is like first of all this  is we the study we conducted is for commercial   application so number one is like this is a large  uh commercial size and i my understanding the   windows can making as a curtain wall so yeah the  sizes can be you know very very very large windows   great um there's a comment that recently  krypton prices have increased dramatically   um and so that i know that the i'll answer this  one because we've been talking to the manufacturer   about this that they're looking on certifying  gas blends of argon and krypton together that   should have similar performance um i was i was  going to add i'm not so sure it's about cool   or something i don't know maybe with the  label shortest inflation you never know but   okay um there are a couple of costs about a couple  of questions about the costs and about that 35   37 a square foot whether it's a complete window or  just the thin glass layers uh this is a complete   windows uh however like you know not including  in i saw another question about install cost   so because of this study we're doing as more like  incremental cost so with the same uh profiles   a similar window so we assume that the cost of  the installation between the double pin and the   power pin are the same that's the watch so this is  like you know just material cost for window great   um couple questions about whether the windows are  commercially available on now and the manufacturer okay so um i'm going to speak to like  you know on behalf of my manufacturer   and uh i know that they are pushing their  they both a lot of manufacturers you know   now you can see a lot of triple coming  out to the market and then uh the quad   hasn't been um you know uh in the commercial  match or you haven't seen much but actually it's   it's commercially available as far as i know  and again this is for uh commercial application   and the residential a lot a lot of the time  you start seeing a lot more on the triple uh   but i'm sure that the company can make this unit  for um arrest high-end residential i don't know   you know i don't know the in terms of like  you know the resident residential um sector   you know it's what's the price difference or or  a thing like that but i'm sure it is available   yes i think that's right they are available for  both commercial and residential and then the   the technology that we tested in this um uh m b  was provided by alpine high performance products   and um so that was the particular version  of the quad pane that was evaluated   um i think i'll interject too yeah i think i  saw another question kind of going as far as the   scoping specification for the windows and i think  from our perspective essentially go through a   prescriptive requirement identify the performance  performance characteristics you're looking for   the windows flood paint windows performance that  you're looking to achieve with those and put that   in your specs for the project and that would be  the recommended route at this point in terms of   getting to a high performance window  installed in part of the project   great thanks tyler can you tell us about any  glare control that is included in the windows   okay again i know i don't want to give out like  you know the research we are doing uh there's a   company that's a manufacturer that's you know  trying to integrating like we talked about   like the glare or like you know solar control  those type of um you you should estimate that   you know the glare control like with other hyper  phone similar to other high performance windows   and but we'll talk about like in terms of like  in the uh glare control shading control those   kind of things automate um there's a research  like you know uh it's happening right now   it's kind of that's all i can say about it  yeah okay great um so i think we answered uh   some of the other um cost questions um can they  be used in regions subject to earthquakes tornado   or severe storms is there any reason that this  would be different than another type of window   yeah this when we talk about the technology people  might scare about like you know the the thin glass   and then the suspended film again this is like  from the inner inner panes of the window outside   is still using the standard glass thickness  so um whatever it is applied to that region   of course like you know we will meet that uh they  probably need that kind of requirements but in   terms of like this is like such a something like  tornadoes and earthquakes this is uh this could be   something that maybe have to discuss with the  manufacturer uh in more detail okay great thank   you um a couple of technical questions how do you  measure surface temperatures when the paint is in   sunlight and um i guess another question related  is for what what are the surfaces for which the   temperature is being measured the glass surfaces  yeah um as far as i can tell that you know we not   only just doing a single measurement you know  with the surface temperatures and that's a good   very good question this is i'm sure that  you guys people who ask me also a researcher   we we did a lot of the um a surface  temperature i think a total sensors per windows   is at least like 20 sensors you know that  we put into the a single windows and um   with um you know center of glass near the edge  you know all kind of uh and it's a special   sensor that wait we can answer you in  the detail that what kind of sensor do we   use so we'll not bore everyone but yeah there's a  um yeah research level sensor great thank you um   and how do you quantify the reduced convective and  radiate uh radiative heat transfer effects uh was   the mean radiant temperature measured so another  kind of more technical yes um yes the that is the   the tool from uh lawrence berkeley um that's  the uh from the cb cbei uh cbe i'm sorry   for that too there's a lot of like we did we  conducted that uh study as well um they uh a   lot of uh information a lot of uh model that  we put it in there come up with the um the   radiant temperatures uh of that and when compared  with the results so i encourage to look at more   uh detail in the full report and then should be  an email for additional information you might   have but we did the analysis on that okay great  and are the windows made in the united states   yes yes loco actually yeah yes um uh is the quad  pane available in a low iron pain configuration   to improve visual transmittance i'm not sure i  understand that question but maybe you took us all   uh yeah the i'm not 100 sure if i understand  either okay uh we'll just move on and we uh we   might we might be can come back to you on that one  um uh okay so there are a couple of questions um   a number of questions on the window inserts as  well and that webinar we're not going to really   touch on the those answer those questions now  because we'll be hosting that uh that webinar   in march and so that some of these questions  we're gonna we can answer at that time um so uh   i guess we've already answered the glare control  has and have these windows been installed in any   historic facilities i don't know if we have  the answer to that okay i think one thing that   people who are who all knows that historic uh uh  buildings you know often like is there's some um   prevention of like any change significant  change of the appearance you know of this   exterior in particular that's what's the  um the next technology that we're going   to discuss in march is a very very good  application for these type of buildings   okay great um big glazing projects are  significantly affected by the glazing   product lead times as well as price do we  know whether these can be manufactured at   scale with the lead times that a conventional  energy code baseline window are available this information i this is more like you  know manufacturing side but uh um so far that   i have talked to these manufacturers they  seem to be in full speed you know they um   there are a lot of interest on that technologies  so i i assume that um of course like you know   this is not something that off the shelf so  you might have to providing some lead time to   in terms of like get it um you know manufacture  but it's not probably gonna be like available   right away off the shelf going to home  depot and pick it up probably not okay   um do we know whether implementation of  these windows could be informed by policy   as with esg or other equity considerations  for historically disadvantaged communities okay i i'll answer that but probably maybe some  folks at gsa maybe can help me at that as well   so yeah right of course like you know the uh in  term of like a policy i think it just depends   um there's a lot of like a policy and then some  incentive that's you know definitely encourage   this type of like technologies to be  deployed um but in terms of like you know   uh low-income communities or like or i i'm  pretty sure that there would be some some   policy that encouraged like you know this type  of technology usually you know that's why we   talk about um energy justice and then like any  equity that's you know um we are we are paying a   lot of attention of this uh um aspect so i'm sure  that's you know there's a policy encourage that um do we have the answer uh i don't know if  we have the specs ready on what the lowest   uh visible light transmittance  coefficient is for this product   if not if we don't have that at hand and  it's something that we get back to you on   yeah i don't have it at hand and then maybe  this is something that uh worked directly with   the manufacturer is maybe a better idea they  have like a spec spec sheet and then maybe   um definitely customizing this uh both on solar  heat gain coefficient and visible transmittance   they can do but i don't have a number in my  hand okay great um has gsa done a national   analysis about which and how many buildings would  be a good fit for either the quad pane windows or   for window inserts and do we have a plan yet  uh for for these rolling out this product so   similar products nationwide and kevin this plebia  and tyler there's plenty of questions for you um i'll take the first rocket down and say that we  have done some preliminary analysis but we haven't   um we have no plan and of course there's a lot of  pending legislation relative to funding that would   obviously have a great deal of impact and  what that would look like yes thank you   okay just want to add just real quick that  you know when we talk about the windows that's   um the opportunity is where the building types  it has windows right so uh i'm pretty that's   what like we are focusing on like mostly on the  office building that's where like you know the   uh high wind higher window wall ratio that will  providing more impact and that's also like you   know the major improvement that any designer can  get booked into the building envelope as well so   great thanks gasal um were there any studies done  on sound transmission reduction with these windows um that's a good question um again like this  is not part of our research study but um   in general um people when we at  home when you have like you know the   a single pain versus double pain nowadays you're  seeing like the significant cell reduction   so i'm very positive that will be a significant uh  improve on the cell reductions of this technology   with you know four panes of windows compared  to like you know a single or double panes thank you um do we know has there been  other research other extramural research   being done at this time is there any  secondary research on these uh for these   this topic in these windows yeah i'm i'm proud to  saying that our lab this is like the first quad   pin uh windows a lot of study on the triple pane  window right now uh you know uh they call it thin   triple you know what the glass technologies on the  triple but this is like kind of as fast as i know   that's already published this is the first one of  the quad pane great um i think i don't think we   can answer this question i'll go ahead and ask it  do we know whether there's an application in motor   vehicles or airplanes um again it's not what we do  um so we'll probably that's not really a question   that we can uh we can answer um so let's see um  trying to pick out some other questions that were   there there was a question about the cost data and  i we and we do have seen we know costs across the   board have increased in the last year so um  is this cost data from 2022 or from earlier this cost is like i would say that uh is around  pre-coded pre-code with time like you know two   like early code time so uh definitely there will  be some some increase with the uh labor cost   i would expect because of like inflation hit every  everything or every industry so but again but this   is like the cost like you know uh um about three  quarterback or early call the time great um what   are the associated warranties for this window  technology and how does it compare to if we   know how it compares to a conventional double  pane igu yeah the company has like the same um 10 years warranty you know i think this is like  a minimum 10 years warranty but they they always   say like you know a lifetime warranty you  know this type of like you know company um   sometimes they're providing extra and beyond  although they might say like 10-year warranty is a   standard but there was there's some other material  or some other thing that lifetime warranty   you know that's covered so you have to look into  a detail of like you know the warranty information great um do we know if there are any energy  rebates for choosing quad pane windows or for   improving the building envelope tyler you might  have a answer for that one yeah it's going to be   utility specific so it's going to depend on the  utility programs they offer and then oftentimes   what we've seen with that type of technology  would be a custom rebate so i think the biggest   my biggest recommendation reach out to your  utility rep for the building and see what they   have available okay great um let's see uh i think  that's we're just about at time these are a lot   those are a lot of great questions um thank you  and again this technology is really um geared   at new construction and major renovation and  um we there is another uh technology that um   of the lightweight secondary windows from the same  manufacturer that will that report is released and   we'll be hosting that webinar in march um and  so um after this webinar you will receive if   you want continuing education credit that's  available through the american institute of   architects and that includes that health safety  and wellness credit for attending this webinar   so if you complete the survey that you'll  be receiving later today you can request   credit and then the date of that next webinar  is march 3rd you should all if you will have   received an invitation if you haven't uh we'll be  sending that out again and so thank you all for   attending thanks for all the great questions and  to the presenters and hope to see you on march 3rd

2022-02-07

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