DSA vs DEV: What should you learn for a High Paying Tech Job in 2024 & 2025
Talking about all the FAANG companies - I'm not criticising anyone. I want to take openly on it. Fraz, DSA & System Design are the ones people mostly focus on and you'll agree with me, there're lot of companies which hire you on the basis of web development skills, without DSA and gives you a good package. But why is there a lot of hype about DSA and System design? Do you think freshers need a 1st year needs system design. You said that, there're companies which don't ask DSA. Yes, there're many companies.
They ask... We need a Java Developer - so they'll ask questions related to Java because they..... It doesn't matter a lot, whether you know core concepts or not - they want if the person is joining now then from tomorrow, he should start working for us. So, those companies also exist. There also you get good packages. People grow in that as well.
So, they learn all the concepts. Its not like - by doing DSA only, the work can be done but if you're doing DSA, then many other gates open up for you. Their process is like, if you're in a college then firstly, online test will be conducted in your college.
The ones who get shortlisted in the shortlist. In online test you'll be asked 2 questions of a good level. So, you'll be shortlisted after that. Then, there'll be 4-5 rounds. So, Fraz tell me one thing as you got Google's opportunity through LinkedIn. So, how should a profile be, how do you come in limelight that - Yes, this person seems legit.
They look for one more thing, that will matter for a bit senior people. They also see your previous companies. Really, do they see if you're from service based or product based? They do. DSA is all about patience. We often get stuck in a question, then we feel like giving up that
I can't do any questions. I can't do anything, I invest so much time 1 hour, even 2 hours - it is taking up my entire day. And let me tell you an interesting thing, I called a call from Google again.
Oh, again! So, today's podcast is entirely packed. Welcome to a new podcast. The guest here with me today is Fraz and we understood from him, his Google's experience. How work is done in Google? Which tech stack, which feature was he working on? We got to know all of it in this podcast. We got to know about Google's hiring process - that how Google hires. The technical recruiters of Google, how do they reach out to people on LinkedIn. And what do they look for in a LinkedIn profile.
You'll get to know all these. Along with this - Web Dev vs DSA - I asked that how important is Web dev, how important is DSA - are there're selective companies which focus on DSA. Or what is the mindset of other companies apart from them? And we talked about that.
And in terms of money, when it comes to money then - only these companies or other companies as well...... You'll get to know all that in this podcast in detail. But the only condition is that you need to watch the entire podcast. Only then you'll get to know about things and according to that, you can make a plan and move ahead.
You've to like this podcast, share it, comment it. If you're new then, subscribe along with bell icon so that I can bring such interesting-interesting guests. So, its worth to subscribe.
Rest, like aim is 5000 - accomplish it for more interesting podcasts. Let's talk with Fraz and know his complete journey. And you'll learn a lot, you'll understand a mindset and I hope that you'll take some learning from this podcast.
Fine! Rest, if you want to sit with me there, at the back then you can email me here. And if you want to do a podcast with me if you feel that your journey is very interesting that should reach people, then you can email me here. I or someone from my team will reach you out and then we'll talk to you & then we'll do the podcast with you there.
Rest, if you're not on master coding then join. I've given the link in the description, where I upload lot of interview questions on front-end and back-end. And if you're not there then you can join. Let's talk with Fraz and know his complete journey. Its going to be a lot of fun today.
So, Fraz - welcome to our youtube channel. And how are you? Amazing! Tell about yourself, Bhaiya! I'm fine as well! Thank you so much for coming. So, for students who don't know you, please tell us about yourself where do you belong to, things which students don't know. Please, over to you! Okay! So, Hi everyone. I'm Fraz. Bhaiya asked me, where do I belong to - so, I was born in UP
and brought up in all over India because Dad was in army, so we used to transfer everywhere. I graduated in 2021. So, it hasn't been long, then I started working at Cure.fit. Its a Banglore based startup. I joined Google after that. And recently, I've left Google and started my own company - Learnyard and we're teaching Data Structures & Algorithms for now. And we're going to do lot more things. I wanted to ask something, Fraz - you had a very good CTC in google you were doing a job when a normal person looks at youtube, content creation - then was money the reason to leave Google. There was passion but income wise, you were earning more. So, honestly when I was working in Google, I was doing ads as well.
I was notions as well, I was teaching as well. So, that amount was much higher than amount I get by teaching. Right! But as I told you that, it was very hectic, it wasn't stable. Means - if I want I can't do it for 5 years. I used to get exhausted. Weekends are being spent in content creation. I spend nights in teaching, classes are going on until 12 at night
and then after waking up in the morning, I had to do Google's work. I often had meetings at night. I had to postpone the class skip the class.
Right!! So, the money was more in that but I felt that this will continue more in future, if we work hard properly, then like there's no limit, right! So, even monitory wise - own work is obviously better. *Right* Its just that, after going a bit down, you'll be successful. When you were in Google, what were you working on in that project and when we talk about work-life, I admit it depends from project to project project's deadline is very tight, so your work gets divided accordingly, so please tell us about that if someone joins Google or someone is going to or that process in itself is very long to crack Google, so tell us about that - what work is there in Google when we work and how was your work? Alright! So, this is something true that it depends on team.
If there's a team which went in maintenance, then there's less work over there. But if there's a team which is expected to bring revenue, right! Then the work will be tightly done. Means there was a time, when I was feeling that this is exactly like a startup and it happens that small teams are created and they work like a startup.
Right! So, I was a part of.... *then forget that you* are in Google or Microsoft & if the project's deadline is tight then *then everyone has to work harder* You need to work harder. In fact, our manager used to do that - sometimes he works at night. Meetings used to be there at night. Work is being done. So, don't think that in big companies there's no work. A good amount of work is done.
When there's a requirement. Secondly, you asked which team I was a part of. So, I was part of Search India. Okay! The search that you do - we used to work on search features. Let me give you an example of search feature, suppose you want to search about Sharukh Khan's height you'll write - height Sharukh Khan height So, as soon as the topic is written, answers are given. That is one of the search feature. Okay! Age and all comes as well Age also comes on top. That is one seacrh feature. If you look for a movie then, its songs, casts everything comes.
That is another search feature. Okay! Just to make your search easy. What was your tech stack in Google? Like, if we talk technology wise. You told feature wise. Which technology were your working in? Alright! So, in front-end Java based framework was used. *okay* And in back-end C++. Oh! Okay! I mostly worked on back-end, the starting few months - I was handed over a research project. I think
I discussed with you as well in the starting that - Bhaiya, I've been given a research project. I can't code much and you said that - it happens, sometimes we're also given a research project. So, its not like - there's only coding. There's also research work , testing work - lot of things are there.
So, in the starting 6 months I worked on Knowledge graph. Okay! That I told about - how search features work. So, all the information is stored in Knowledge Graph and comes from there. So, I worked on the entities of Knowledge Graph and then I started working on back-end that was in C++. Then contributed a bit towards front-end side. You know, Fraz - as much as I'm talking to you, I could understood - when you work in a company, your growth will be slow. Not like - as in Adidas there is M series - M4, M3, M2 you level up in this way. But in MNCs it takes time for growth. Growth is slow, not like suddenly you'll be made a manager
it takes time, you gain experience and accordingly your growth takes place. *Absolutely* Now, Fraz tell me, when it was time to leave Google, then every person - even if its you or someone else - when they leave job I should've this much amount in my bank. So, had you kept that figure in your bank or did you had in your mind that the figure is there now I can leave the job and take risk? Alright! Leaving a job is very difficult & making effort and making something big. So, did you had that figure in mind or did you had that figure - now I can leave? Tell me honestly. I'll tell you honestly. So, I had taken loan - there was a house loan in my name. *Okay*
So.. *How much loan did you take?* Tell us. How much - in amount? Yes! I think around 50. *Around 50, okay!* So, I don't exactly remember how much was left but I had given its installment for 1-1.5 years so, it used to be deducted from salary. 50 - 53,000 something used to get deducted.
So, I had to clear that. Because now there won't be a constant salary. I don't know if after a month it would be good but the other month, it might be less. I didn't knew anything. When you do business then - its not like, you can spend it. You've to keep it safe, right! So that you can re-invest and improve your quality and bring many more good educators. So, I cleared my loan. Then I thought of investing somewhere as well. So, I even invested in some companies - where I could recurring income from.
Was anyone guiding you for these things? So, my uncle is already in business. *Okay* He was guiding me that invest here. Right! One thing that I lack is I never invested in mutual funds. So, I didn't do that. But apart from that, I had 2-25 lakhs in bank. Okay! After these things happened, you felt that - you had confidence. Yes, I had confidence that I would do it. Students trust so much.
So! I want to tell an interesting thing - I had got a call from Google again. Okay! Again? Yes, like its been 2-3 months. So, I got a call from recruiter. Okay! Firstly, Google's name was visible on truecaller, so I got scared that why am I getting a call? Did I say something in the video? So, I picked up the call and recruiter said that hiring is going on and we want to hire you. So, I said that maybe you didn't see my LinkedIn profile. I was working in Google but few months before, I left it. So, he said that we've seen your entire profile. In fact, this person was your manager, you were working in this team. And your feedbacks have been good, that's why we're approaching you again to join again.
And there won't be an interview. There's a policy that you can join again. Right! You can negotiate and select your team. I said, it'll take time to decide and hopefully, I shouldn't have to join so soon, firstly what I had started should go well. Then I'll tell you.
Okay! So, I told my mom about this. *okay* Mom said told me to join. Okay! She told me to join now itself. She said even tell Pulkit to join. Moms are like this - family thinks in a safe zone. Correct! So, for her job is still - when I told this to my uncle, who was guiding me and to my dad - they said that don't keep backup options.
If there'll be back up options then there'll be a stage when you'll feel that - its enough. You'll fall back to that back-up. Don't keep anything. I want to say something, its a direct question from audience. Yes! The question is that - all the FAANG companies, I'm not criticising anyone. I want to talk openly on it. Fraz, people focus a lot on DSA and system design and you'll agree with me, many companies are there which hire without DSA on the basis of web dev skills and give you good package. But why is there so much hype about DSA and system design? Do you think freshers a student of 1st year needs system design? Let's talk about, System design - I can say about DSA that why is there so much hype, I even talked to the recruiters and lot of senior recruiters, hiring managers.
They ask DSA so that a person who is a problem solver will be able to solve the DSA questions. And we will be able to judge these 2 skills. One is, is he able to code or not. Secondly, if we give him a problem is he able to solve it by algorithmic approach or not if yes, then we can teach him any technology. Okay! We can make him work by teaching him any technology in the company and they've this buffer that even if he doesn't work for 3-4 months, then there's a buffer to teach them. Its not like, they've to give their contribution as soon as they join. So that's why DSA in hype in all of these companies, they've a gap and they want that we should've problem solvers.
Rather than somebody who's good at particular tech. Okay! Tell me one thing from your experience. You prepare a lot for an interview, solve many questions when you work in a project in a company, do all those concepts help? Or they're very rare? So, not all concepts are applied. If I tell you then, I learnt many things, I learnt trees but I didn't use it anywhere. But in Cure.fit I got the opportunity that, I went to take a session on Github.
Okay! Github is such a beautiful thing, so many concepts of tress are used in it. *Internally* Internally! So many concepts of Graph is being used. If you understand that concept, although 90% engineers don't know they know the use properly, they know commands *they know commands* Right! Even I know the commands. *Yes, now how is it internally*
implemented, how is it propagated in the entire tree - that is a bit interesting So, it helps in that. If you're actually good at data structures and algorithms, then you'll understand core level things if there's a framework, then how is it working, you'll understand all that from DSA. And companies want as well that our employee should be strong fundamentally, if he's facing any problem and the solution is not available in framework, then he'll change the framework that's why these companies have their own framework, Google has its own framework for front-end Facebook has its won framework. They want that sort of engineers.
If a student, not only Google, like if he wants to targe a product based, according to you you already worked there. You gave 5 rounds please tell us about that what should be the mindset DSA is important and what else is important as well? Alright! So, DSA is required, apart from that your presentation skills, like its a 45 minute interview. You need to listen the questions, clarify So, tell us a bit - what the entire process of Google is. Okay! So, Google's process is - if you're in a college, then firstly online test will be conducted in college. The ones who'll be shortlisted in online test - there'll be 2 questions of a good level then you'll be shortlisted. Then there'll be 4-5 rounds, right!
Okay! So, first round is screening round. In that, if you get selected you'll move forward. If you get rejected then process ends. The marks of that round will not be added in final evaluation Okay! That is just for screening. So, either or hard question or 2 medium questions will be asked to you. And you've to answer and code, both of these & tell the space and time complexity of these questions. Its not like, there's hope that - I did one, but why didn't it happen. It won't happen by one because, lot of people apply.
They need to hire only some people. Then 3-4 coding rounds will be conducted again. Again, its same - 45 minutes - 2 medium level questions, 1 hard level question or often they also asked me easy question that there were so many followups to medium & hard level. So, you need to listen to the question, clarify it because any question asked, isn't complete - its ambiguous. And the interviewer wants to know - is his mind working so much - that he would ask me these things.
Then, you've to explain the approach. *okay* After that, you've to start writing the code. You don't get any code editor, you need to write in Google doc, basically. How much should the accuracy be, should the code be 100% accurate or pseudo code is written they take an idea from it that, he is going in the right way. Or 100% accuracy is checked? So, I feel that for a good coder writing a 100% correct code is easier rather than a pseudo code so, so much practice is there that he writes entire code. There're mistakes in it & those are significant then the interviewer will themselves say that - can you spot this error. Then you'll find it, mistakes happen, that is acceptable
but its not like you can write a pseudo code. you've to write it you've to choose a programming language - C++, Java, Python, JavaScript - whatever you want to choose the interviewer will arrange accordingly. But you've to code that. Okay! After coding, space and time complexity analysis. if there's any improvement, interviewer will say that - can you improve the space complexity to time complexity then you've to improve accordingly. At last, there's another round - Googliness round. This was technical
they'll say if he can fit in the culture or not of the company the reaction to a situation - how will you react to a situation. Those type of questions are asked. Okay! So, Fraz - tell me one thing that you got Google's opportunity through LinkedIn, right! So, how should a profile be, as many technical recruiters are there. How can you be in their lime light that - this person feels right. What is their mindset? What do they look in a profile, LinkedIn specially? Because these days its important to be on LinkedIn, if you're an IT professional. I also heard that, these lot of people are being reached out on LinkedIn, those who've switched I talk to them, how did you hunt for job? Because I've to tell people how to hunt for jobs in this season? So, they say that recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn. I even talked to a Google recruiter, who said that LinkedIn is one of the favorite platform of recruiters.
They search keywords and get good profiles. Like, suppose they need a C++ developer they've an option for technology that if C++ is there in a skillset, they'll filter the profiles accordingly. If someone made a project in C++, then that profile will be filtered on top. They look for one more thing it'll matter for senior people, they also look at previous companies Really? They see that, if they were from service based or product based. They do. Why - because their work is being easier with this. If a person is already from a FAAG company, then its easier for them. *yes*
They'll feel that he knows. *Let me tell you* I used to feel that if your background is from service based and suppose, there's a google recruiter or from Microsoft - they look at it. It is a bit judgemental. They are judgemental, in fact, on the basis of college as well. If he's from IIT or NIT - there's a very simple reason for this. That if they shortlist a student from IIT and interview him, they feel that he has higher chances to get selected so, our effort will be reduced.
They've targets to recruit these many people - and talking about system design then I don't think high level system design is asked from freshers, low level design is asked from them. Suppose, you need to make a chess game then how will you make it? And if you've learnt Object Oriented Programming properly, DBMS - how to make Schema that should be sufficient. System design is asked at high level because there it is required in the work for doing good system design.
Okay! So, this is the scene and companies don't ask more things - if you've worked on react, then they'll ask deeply on react. No, they don't ask much. They know, if he has worked on react then he has - they trust you. And if not, then they'll teach you. I always say for freshers, your fundamentals should be strong and from there base will be created, you'll connect things. If you've to put logic, fundamentals will be strong - then you'll start
getting familiar with the code. Because debugging is very important, if you learnt how to debug a code properly, you'll make logic, if your DSA is strong and - sometimes - like when I joined, we couldn't write new code. You need to see the legacy code and adapt. There're many helper functions, packages are made, you need to reuse them. So, slowly you understand things. As you said that, some companies which don't ask DSA. Yes, there're many companies. They ask - we need a Java developer, so they'll ask questions related to Java because it doesn't matter for them much if he knows core concepts or not. They want a person
to work for us from tomorrow, if he joins today. So, those companies also exist and there're good pacakge as well. People grow in it as well until top. Later they learn all the concepts. So, its not like by doing only DSA, work can be done, but if you're doing
DSA, then lot of gates will open for you As you go, we surely want advice for our audience. There're many students who're preparing for DSA, they're in college what will you advice them according to your experience until now? Okay! So, DSA is all about patience. Often we get stuck in a question then we feel like giving up. I can't do the questions. I'm investing so much time, 1 hour, 2 hours - entire night goes by it. So, you need to work with patience.
You've to learn the concepts, try it by yourself and then again see that - is it being solved now or not? Right! Learn the topics sequentially. That is a very important advice because often people will directly jump to Binary search. Before ding Binary search, you should know what's sorting, what is 2 pointer approach you should know those things. Mind opens slowly. When you'll learn something difficult like, mathematical calculations - you'll not understand if you go step by step - then you'll understand. Those who know maths until 10th class - they'll be able to understand - algorithms and data structures very well. Okay! But practice is something that is needed, if you don't practice then you'll study algorithm, data structures and forget it. You've to solve enough questions on each and every topic.
You need to write the code. Without the code, by looking or by theory basis then it won't work. Because if you're targeting development role, only then. So, you need to write the code.
Absolutely! You need to write the code in development. Okay! So, thank you so much Fraz - it was nice talking to you and thank you so much for coming. And guys, if you like this video, I hope all the insights Fraz gave will help you a lot. You might've learnt a lot throughout the podcast. And like this video to the most, share. Like aim is 5000, accomplish it for more interesting podcasts.
I'll meet in any other video. Till then, take care! Thank you so much! Thank you so much! Thank you Bhaiya for inviting me. Thank you!
2024-07-08 04:06
