Directorate for Technology, Innovation and Partnerships (TIP)
hello everyone my name is samantha hunter and i work in the policy office at the national science foundation it is my pleasure to welcome you today to the spring 2022 nsf ritual grants conference and now i'm pleased to present the session which will cover the director for technology innovation and partnerships for tip which is our newest directorate at nsf this session will be presented by program director peter atherton hello and welcome in this session i'll be providing an overview of the newly created nsf directorate for technology innovation and partnerships or tip the nation is currently facing momentous challenges from addressing the impacts of climate change to providing equitable access to education healthcare and broadband connectivity and improving us infrastructure at the same time the u.s research and innovation enterprise is undergoing historic changes the pace of discovery has accelerated stem researchers and students are increasingly passionate about channeling their work to address the problems that we face in our communities and stem talent is highly distributed all prompting the need for unique new partnerships that blend expertise and resources the u.s national science foundation invests across the full spectrum of fundamental research from exploratory curiosity-driven research to use-inspired solution-oriented research across this spectrum nsf's investments deliver incredible benefits for the american people the challenges of our time demand that we rapidly scale these investments and build even stronger bridges between discovery innovation and societal impact the recently created tip directorate is an important step towards addressing these challenges and building a research and innovation ecosystem as discussed earlier the tip directorate is a cross-cutting platform that spurs innovation across all science and engineering fields to rapidly address societal and economic challenges and to bring new technologies to market and to society while at the same time investing in nurturing the diverse talent needed for the future tip will address a critical need to advance the geography of innovation engaging communities throughout the country that have been unserved or underserved in the nation's research and innovation enterprise tip will build on an organizational culture of innovation and an extensive portfolio of existing programs that foster public and private partnerships to advance technological innovation and translation that will grow the us economy and train a diverse workforce for future high-wage jobs the impact of tip is embodied in its existing programs as well as new programs that foster regional innovation ecosystems and experiential learning opportunities to prepare students for a wide range of career opportunities tip comprises three focus areas fostering innovation ecosystems establishing translation pathways and partnering across sectors to engage the nation's diverse talent the directorate works closely with the entire agency to leverage ongoing research investments and grow them at speed and scale leading more rapidly to economic and societal benefits across the nation tip brings together teams of researchers practitioners and users to iteratively co-design and co-create transformational technologies and solutions to address the nation's societal and economic challenges and grow the future workforce as i mentioned earlier tip combines existing and new programs to achieve its mission so in the next few slides i'll briefly describe each of these programs first i'll discuss the convergence accelerator program national scale societal challenges cannot usually be solved by innovations in a single technical discipline instead these challenges require convergence in other words the merging of innovative ideas approaches and technologies from a wide range of sectors and expertise the nsf convergence accelerator launched in 2019 builds on basic research and discovery to accelerate solutions towards societal impact the program funds teams to develop solutions to societal challenges through convergent research and innovation to enhance its impact the convergence accelerator places teams together in cohorts synergizing their work through facilitated collaboration the unique structure of the program offers researchers and innovators the opportunity to accelerate their research towards tangible solutions that make a difference through an intense and hands-on program researchers gain skills and experiences that are applied during the program and throughout their career the program is focused on a convergent research approach that firstly stimulates convergence through a multi-disciplinary approach in a co-operation environment secondly develops sustainable focused solutions for direct societal impact and finally develops innovation skills the convergence accelerator program model involves three phases an ideation phase and two subsequent convergence research phases in the initial ideation phase new ideas are gathered from from the community ideas that meet the program requirements are further developed in nsf-funded workshops the ideas are framed for the convergence accelerator program to incorporate convergent research and encourage collaboration among stakeholders from academia industry non-profit organizations government and other communities of practice the findings of these workshops assist nsf in developing the final convergence research track topics each year the program releases a solicitation featuring research track topics for the next funding cycle funded teams within a track make up a cohort all teams within a cohort begin in convergence research phase one at the end of phase one the teams participate in a formal nsf pitch and proposal process which is used in selecting teams for phase two teams selected for phase two continue developing their solutions towards generating outcomes with impact by the end of phase two the solutions are expected to be positioned to generate positive societal impact at scale and to be sustainable beyond nsf support phase one funding is for up to seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars over nine months while phase two funding is for up to five million dollars over two years in addition to the standard nsf review criteria of intellectual merit and broader impacts the convergence accelerator has five key criteria that are used to evaluate phase two proposals firstly the need for convergent research secondly the involvement of cross-cutting partnerships involving academia industry non-profit organizations government and other communities thirdly broadening participation in other words how the participation of underrepresented groups will be increased fourthly the national or global impact of project deliverables and finally collaboration between teams to ensure alignment with the track topics the convergence accelerator program currently comprises three cohorts started in 2019 2020 and 2021 each of these three cohorts includes two different track topics the 2019 and 2020 cohorts are currently in phase two while the 2021 cohort is currently in phase one the upcoming 2022 cohort will include four topics one of which will be a joint effort with a dod initiative details of a current funding opportunity for the convergence accelerator are shown on this page letters of intent were due by may 31st and full proposals are due by july 20 2022 details can be found in the solicitation at the link on this page the tip directorate recently announced the formation of a new program called the regional innovation engines or simply nsf engines this bold new program aims to catalyze and foster innovation ecosystems across the us with the specific objectives of firstly advancing critical technologies secondly addressing national and societal challenges thirdly fostering partnerships across industry academia government non-profit organizations civil society and communities of practice fourthly promoting and stimulating economic growth and job creation and finally spurring regional innovation and talent the nsf engines program will provide a unique way to drive economic growth in regions that have not fully participated in the technology boom of the past few decades the program will form coalitions across diverse sectors and organizational types including for example small businesses two-year colleges and minority serving institutions as well as demonstrate a strong commitment to diversity equity inclusion and accessibility each nsf engine will be centered around a specific geographical region and will focus on a specific topic area of national and societal importance motivated by that region's strengths and the regional economy the partners involved in each engine will collaboratively create and design the engine with the goal of stimulating the creation of technology driven products and solutions to serve the regions and the nation's needs each nsf engine engine can receive up to 160 million dollars over 10 years to support the development of diverse regional coalitions to engage in use-inspired research and development translation of innovation to society and workforce development with the goal of growing and sustaining regional innovation ecosystems throughout the us this page shows conceptually how the regional innovation ecosystems could be configured in this example 10 nsf nsf engines in each of five different topic areas are distributed across the country one topic area could for example be climate change while another could be the use of artificial intelligence in agriculture for example distributing engines in this way is intended to harness the geographic breadth and diversity of resources in various regions there is a current funding opportunity for the nsf engines as shown on this page concept outlines for type 1 and type 2 are due by june 30th 2022 type 1 letters of intent are due by august 31st and type 1 full proposals are due by september 29th details are available in the broad agency announcement at the link shown on this page the tip directorate's lab to market platform provides pathways for researchers startups and aspiring entrepreneurs to move their ideas from the lab to the market while gaining access to a range of nsf resources the platform comprises four programs that i'll now briefly describe the innovation core or icore program provides experiential entrepreneurial education to further the nation's innovation ecosystem icore connects the technological entrepreneurial and business communities addressing skill and knowledge gaps to reduce the time it takes to bring technologies from the lab to the marketplace in the program's initial phase icor nodes and sites were funded separately to serve as the backbone of the national innovation network a new operational model the icore hubs program was introduced in 2020 to replace the nodes and sites each hub comprises a lead institution and seven initial partner institutions that contribute to the success of the hub objectives activities and expected outcomes since its inception the icorp program has funded over 1900 teams and resulted in the formation of over 1 000 high-tech startup companies it's important to appreciate that icore is not about selling or pitching or grant writing or developing a business plan instead the program funds teams to undergo real-world hands-on immersive learning about what it takes to successfully transfer research outcomes into products and processes that benefit society each team includes a technical lead an entrepreneurial lead and an icore mentor all of whom participate fully in the iqr curriculum which is focused on getting the teams out of the lab and talking to customers partners and competitors partnerships for innovation or pfi provides nsf funded researchers the opportunity to increase the impact of their discoveries pfi teaches researchers how to develop and implement a technology roadmap create a business model and develop their technology into a prototype or proof of concept the program which is open to any technology area funded by nsf does not require researchers to start a small business or leave their university positions pathways to enable open source ecosystems or pose is a new tip program that aims to harness the power of distributed open source development as an engine of technology innovation to address problems of national and societal importance the program aims to support the development of open source ecosystems across all technical fields including software hardware manufacturing materials and data to address issues of societal importance in any application area the program offers phase 1 funding for scoping activities and phase 2 funding for development of open source ecosystems a phase one award provides funding of up to three hundred thousand dollars over one year while a phase two award provides up to one point five million dollars over two years phase two applicants are not required to have received phase one funding applicant organizations can include institutions of higher education for-profit organizations non-profit non-academic organizations state educational offices or organizations and local school districts america's seed fund at nsf also known as the nsf sbir sttr program provides up to two million dollars in non-dilutive funding to start up an early stage high-tech companies to develop new leading-edge technology innovations that offer the potential to be commercially successful and societally impactful funding is available in two phases with supplements available at phase two applicants can get started by submitting a project pitch for fast feedback on whether their innovation is a fit with the program companies must first receive a phase one award before being eligible to apply for phase 2.
the nsf sbir sttr program funds new technology innovations across almost all technical fields as indicated on this page which shows a breakdown of the 2020 funding across broad technology categories the nsf sbir sttr program is focused on funding startup and early stage companies where public money is likely to have greatest impact this is illustrated by the fact that ninety-five percent of recent phase one awardee companies had ten employees or fewer at the time of their phase one award eighty-one percent were founded in the prior five years and 59 were first time spir sttr award recipients between 2016 and 2020 uh nsf sbir sttr awardees raised approximately 14 billion dollars in follow-on equity financing and we're aware of approximately 200 successful exits during this time by acquisition merger or initial public offering the tip lab to market programs are highly synergistic and frequently connect to nsf research funding as illustrated in the case of sbir awardee company nanoview biosciences this company's technology originated in research carried out at boston university funded by a 1996 nsf career award this was followed by a pfi award in 2011 an icore award in 2013 an sbir phase 1 award to the newly formed company in 2017 and an sbir phase 2 award to the company in 2018. in 2020 the company completed a 15 million series b funding round to stay informed about what's happening in tip please visit the website shown on this page and sign up for the newsletter to learn about current funding opportunities and upcoming events i hope you found this informative if you have questions please feel free to contact the tip directorate at the email address shown on this page thank you for listening and we will now take questions via the q a function in zoom okay thank you so much for that peter we will move on to the questions we have and in addition to at sending the questions via the email peter just told you about you can also ask right now here today with us so i'll start with the first one uh peter could you please clarify the regional aspect of the regional innovation engines there was a figure uh in the presentation uh that apparently made it look like regions are not geographically defined so if you could uh elaborate on that a bit sure happy to simon thanks thanks for the question appreciate that so in the slide i'm looking at the slide on my other screen in this slide here this is meant to illustrate that there would be different focus areas for could be different focus areas for these engines and each engine will in fact be regionally based but the idea is that an engine in a particular region will take advantage of the strengths of that region and address issues associated with that region so one of the examples i mean these engines could be in many different addressing many different um societally important issues but if you take as an example the use of artificial intelligence in uh agriculture for instance you can imagine that you know agricultural issues issues to do with the agriculture industry in the northeast might be quite different from the northwest or the southwest and so you know the solutions would be different the strengths of these different regions would be quite different so each of them might be focused on the same general issue but they might be quite different in the way that they take advantage of local strengths to deal with issues of local relevance local being the region the regions are not obviously not not constrained to a particular state they can cross state boundaries but they will be in a particular region of the country so as i say you can i can imagine a number of engines addressing the same general issue in different ways in different parts of the country and that's what that slide was intended to represent okay thank you we have another question uh the i course slide emphasize the interest in recruiting more qualified mentors is there an nsf web page we can circulate to people who think they may be uh mentor candidates i think the best way if people are interested in being mentors i think the best way is to contact um the icorp program directly and i would suggest in particular that anyone who's interested or has suggestions as regards mentors should contact dr ruth schuman at the icore website i think that would be the best way to do it okay and uh we have a two-part question one person is asking is there a role for community colleges in any of these programs yes quite a few of these programs actually do call out community colleges as organizations that can participate so in the pose program for example and in the engines program i think community colleges are specifically mentioned as the types of organizations that can participate okay and same but for puis for primarily undergraduate institutions uh is their role for those institutions um that i'm not sure about with regard to to the engines um uh no i'm not i just can't answer that we'd have to take that on notice but i'm happy to i'm happy to look into it and get back to the question i mean if someone wants to send me or to send us an email i'm happy to get back to them okay yeah all right and the regional innovation engine solicitation specifies that only one full proposal may be submitted per institution but may more than one conceptual outline be submitted yeah i understand i'm sorry also will this solicitation cycle be repeated next year so my understanding is that an institution can submit more than one concept outline um i don't know whether the solicitation cycle will be repeated next year uh but i think the expectation is that there will be future solicitations we just can't say for sure okay and building on the that question uh and since the engines program welcomes organizations operating in existing mature innovation ecosystems uh to partner with proposers do you think a collaboration or partnership with existing ercs uh will be possible or allowed and if so what should be the nature of that collaboration and to what extent so my understanding is that that is allowed i mean in terms of the nature of the collaboration this isn't going to depend very much on what the engine wants to achieve so i can't really i mean i can't really provide any guidelines there because this is you know it's a very sort of open call at this point so but i think that is allowed okay uh let's see as an investigator at the university's college of business uh and i think collaborating with our new hardware business accelerator sounds like a strategy for this funding mechanism what are your thoughts on this for which for the engines that's what i think it says i think collaborate with a new business sounds like a strategy for this funding mechanism so i'm going to say yes yes it could be well so it i mean if it's to do with the engines it's expected that there would be numerous different types of organizations involved in a particular engine you know so there might be institutions of higher education there might be other you know community colleges and so forth but there might be you know corporate organizations um you know various different participants are expected to be involved in each engine so you know i think the the short answer to the question is yes but i think it's important to realize that the objective here is to try and stimulate um the growth of new or existing ecosystems so this is a big vision and to achieve this requires a range of different parties to be involved in you know a successful innovation engine okay and having common elements such as regional innovation ecosystem uh workforce development and a diverse team how would you differentiate the nsf engines program from the nsf erc well i think you know i think the engines program as i say is really about stimulating a sort of almost a cultural change in a region you know it's trying to create an ecosystem where one doesn't exist now the erc and an erc might result in a new ecosystem being formed but that's not its primary objective the primary objective here the primary objective of an erc of course is research the primary objective here is to actually establish these ecosystems you know which will cause the you know the the development of technologies that address societally important problems that are relevant to the region and and obviously important to the nation so i think that if you look at it at a high level i think the goal of the engines is somewhat different it's a very you know it's a very big bold emission okay thank you and thank you all for submitting these questions keep them coming we appreciate uh all the questions and the uh responses we're receiving from peter as well so uh for the regional innovation ecosystems is there any collaboration between nsf and economic development agency uh not i mean i'm not involved i'm not directly involved in the engine so i'm not sure i'm not aware of any but that doesn't mean that there isn't any i'm sorry i just can't answer that specifically okay and can you expand on the expected measurements or benchmarks of success for nsf engines in the context of a region you know i think that's going to depend very much on the region and the problems you're going to solve so i think it's up to you know if you if if you're submitting a type 2 proposal it's up to the proposing team to describe in detail the benchmarks that they would use to measure the success of the activity i don't think i don't think nsf at this point because it's such a it's such a broad and diverse program i don't think it would be possible for us to just lay down a set of of guidelines for objectives i think each engine has to decide what objectives are important for that engine and then put that forward as a you know compelling case thank you and i believe you already said this but if i have ideas uh and i want to speak to someone uh where do i turn uh as far as tip is concerned who what do i turn to reach out to someone uh it depends on what the ideas are i mean if if if someone wants guidance on whether a certain type of um you know for example team structure is appropriate that type of question i would approach the relevant program um obviously we can't provide advice on the contents of a proposal that goes without saying of course but if it's to do with you know the uh the processes around proposed preparing and submitting a proposal or some general questions about eligibility or you know um uh team composition i would just contact the approach the point of make contact with the point of contact in the appropriate program i mean everyone's happy to talk to potential proposers in in all of the programs actually yes okay another question since diversity equity inclusion and accessibility is crucial how will diverse or multi-sector coalitions be identified and evaluated what indicators of synergy will reviewers be looking for yeah that depends again that depends on the project i can't give specific guidelines as far as you know indicators that reviewers will be looking for is concerned but i do know i mean diversity equity and inclusion are important parameters in all of our programs you know we're highlighting these for the engines because you know it's it's it's sort of you know setting the tone for the uh for the activity but these are important very important uh elements of all of our programs um but i don't think we can actually provide you know hard and fast guidelines uh that you know that people need to adhere to i think people have to again present a convincing case that these critical elements are really not an afterthought they're actually woven into the fabric of if it's an engine of the engine that they're proposing to build so it's got to look like it's actually integral not not just you know bolted on at the end of the process [Music] and we learned about the new nsf prospect tool from gene feldman so that was the previous uh session that was the uh proposal and award policy update session from today but it sounds like you're encouraging direct contact from investigators to these program directors regarding suitability issues or should we be using both prospect portal and direct program contact i don't really have any direct experience with the prospect portal so i'm not sure but i can tell you that in all of these programs program directors are happy to take you know inquiries from potential proposers with the caveat that we can't give you any advice of course on what you should include in your proposal on the contents of the proposal but we can certainly provide clarifications about the aim of the of the program uh the sorts of things that you know you should be taking into consideration and any procedural matters in terms of preparing and submitting a proposal of course okay and i will say with prospect it does not prohibit you from speaking with a program director in any of the programs uh if there if it's with the new pep guy when you have to have the prospect tool and concept outline that does not mean you cannot communicate with nsf outside of that so uh you absolutely can still contact the program officer directly uh with questions as peter just described with information he just described not necessarily to say oh talk to me about my actual proposal but still you know different information you know you still are uh encouraged to communicate with the program okay did we generate any more questions in your mind at this point uh again we're here you have our undivided attention and we're very happy to uh answer as many questions as questions as we can uh clarify any pieces that uh you're wondering about so we're here for you take advantage is there anything peter that you want to elaborate on uh for tip anything more to get people excited about with this brand new directory thank you sam i mean i think the big thing about tip is it's i to me it's i've been in the sbir sttr program for almost nine years now um and i have a background in entrepreneurship i think this is a really important initiative the tip pro the tip director it's a very important step that nsf is taking and in my mind it's as was stated in the presentation it's really a way to provide various types of first of all off ramps for nsf funded research so we don't leave it stranded it can go on and become a useful product or service and benefit society and of course for many of the things that nsf funds on the research side the research is only done because it could lead to useful products or services that would benefit society and benefit the economy and so forth so i think from that point of view it's a it's a it's a very very exciting very positive step i also think that the you know the engines is such a bold program you know if we can make this make this happen and actually set up you know regional innovation ecosystems that will be huge for the country so you know it's early days for the program it's only just been announced and there are you know many uh you know many things yet to do but you know the objectives are really inspiring and uh you know we were i was in a session for the engines just yesterday as a matter of fact and it's really interesting to hear all these fascinating ideas from different and very diverse teams being talked about and teams now getting to know each other and starting to talk to each other in particular regions and exploring ways in which they could collaborate to maybe put together a proposal it's very interesting and it's very exciting and i can see it could be hugely beneficial for the nation and this tip is like the first new directorate we've had in what like 30 so 32 years yes so we're very excited uh you know with this great new uh development at nsf so uh we do have a question when will the call for nsf engines uh come out and what will be the focus areas this is for 2023 oh for 2023 well so i mean the the uh the days for the engines were in the uh presentation so that the concepts of the present um the only deadlines we have are concept outlines for type 1 and type 2 which are due at the end of this month type 1 letters of intent in august of this year type 1 full proposals in september there's no dates yet for the type 2 letters of intent or full proposals but there will be some time in 2023 but we don't have dates yet for those okay yeah and uh and normally when that comes out you have the 90 days you know in advance to prepare so there'll be uh lots of uh time given when the announcement is made right uh and any idea how many awards will be given for the entrance program so i think for the engines and i'm just looking at the documentation here that the plan is to make up to 50 type 1 awards and remember a type 1 award is more like a a planning or a sort of building you're building your team towards a type 2 proposal so type 1 award is for duration of up to two years and a dollar amount of up to a million dollars and 50 of those are anticipated um and the type two awards uh as was indicated in the presentation are for up to 160 million dollars each over a 10-year period and the funding annual funding ramps up over that 10 years so i think it starts off at 7.5 million dollars in years one and two and then gradually increases to 20 million a year i think the uh expectation is that there will be i mean obviously a smaller number of those awarded i don't actually have the number here i i think it's more like between five and ten but i'm not 100 sure of that number okay thank you uh do you think it is appropriate for an engine to use a single regionally available resource to focus on multiple regional and national concerns in broad topic to use a single regionally available resource i mean i think it depends how you define a resource i think every engine is going to require different types of resources in order to be effective so it's not just having a technology it's you know you've got to have the involvement of um of uh you know various educational institutions you've got to have the involvement of of industry you've got to have the involvement of the local and regional governments you know the economic development authorities in the region etc etc so i think you know i'm not sure what's meant by a single resource i think all those resources will be necessary for an engine to be effective the objective is to build an ecosystem in the region so i just don't see how that's possible without having all those different resources involved in an in an initiative in order to do that so um now can a can a region and sorry can an engine in a particular region address issues in other parts of the country i mean in principle yes but the intention is for an engine to focus on the strengths of the region and primarily focus on issues that are regionally important you know so if those if those issues occur in other parts of the country maybe it will end up having an impact there as well but it's they're intended to be regionally focused so okay and four engines uh what's your sense of the relative advantage or disadvantage of a proposal building on a budding innovation ecosystem it sounds like the philosophy is oriented towards creating completely new ecosystems that have little to no existing momentum yeah i wouldn't say that the philosophy is just focused on creating completely new ecosystems i think now who knows what we'll see coming as proposals but i think it depends on the region in some regions there are you know early stage or somewhat nascent ecosystems and maybe they will be the the basis for building an engine and in some regions of course there is not a there's really not a well-developed ecosystem at all and you know if the objective is to try and uh take advantage of resources you know talent uh et cetera et cetera in those regions then in those cases depending on the region in those cases though um it's going to be a case of building something essentially from scratch and i know you know i know some of the regions are looking to also interface to neighboring regions in order to you know have to to take advantage of talent from neighbouring regions and also in order to be substantial enough to be able to absorb 160 million dollars over 10 years i mean you have to have a you know a vibrant enough ecosystem built to be able to absorb that ongoing funding so it's going to be very dependent on the region i think i'm giving a lot of very equivocal answers here but i think that's just the way it is i mean you know every region is different the problems that are being addressed will be different the strengths of each region and the resources already there are different so i think it's a case of every team putting together a you know creative and compelling package okay thank you and a question on convergence accelerator grant is it required to have stakeholders in industry to be included as a senior personnel on a team or just a lot of collaboration is needed i'm not 100 sure to be frank with you i don't think it's required but i'm not 100 sure of that i say that because i know a number of teams have gone through the convergence accelerator and i don't think they've had industry members as senior personnel anyway and back to engines if a lead institution submits an engine's type 1 letter of intent will they be eligible to also apply for a type 2 letter of intent with a different topic or group when those dates are announced hmm uh in terms of the letters of intel again i honestly don't know the answer to that my guess would be that you can be involved in multiple letters of intent because that's not a proposal the letters of intent are used more by nsf planning purposes in this program anyway than anything else so i think you know the requirements of the solicitation sorry of the proposal that are placed on the proposal i think don't go upstream to the letters of intent but i'm not 100 sure about that to be frank and can the industrial academic research partners of the regional engine be across multiple state boundaries as long as they benefit the competitiveness and helping niche industries spanning in multiple states uh enhances the industry's technical strengths the short answer is yes yes they can be they can be from other other other states i mean if that's necessary to build you know the critical mass that you that is needed for the engine to be effective in the greater region that it's looking to serve that is that's perfectly fine thanks there's a lot of questions uh all thrown in just now uh we're still open to more uh do we have any other questions uh thank you for that last response peter uh that student just came up uh do we have any other questions that we can tackle uh and if anything is different like the solicitation will specify uh a lot of the questions you all have the solicitation will let you know if if something is required if if there are restrictions on the eligibility uh any if the description of senior personnel who has to be the solicitation if it's different from what's in the pack guy that will be uh explicitly stated in the solicitation always so and a lot of if peter's saying oh it depends that's because there's so much flexibility all around that it really does depend you know so that really is a standard answer but a lot of those details are available in this lesson where your limitations may be okay well uh peter is there any more you uh need to say or are you i don't think so sam i mean the other thing i would just reiterate is if anyone does have you know more very specific questions please just reach out to the program they will be able to answer those questions um most of the questions now were on the on the engines which is understandable it's a new and potentially very big and impactful program um but if you have more detailed questions about any of the programs just reach out to the representatives of those programs and they'll be happy to to get back to you okay well i thank you very much peter for uh everything you've uh explained to us and and brought to our attention and so excitedly talked about with tip i thank you all for joining us today and again thank you for your participation
2022-07-19 02:28
