Copy of STEP towards strengthening the strategic technologies for Europe

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foreign with us today that's a good question because he will speak after  me actually and I'm not sure if I can see her   I don't see her either and then it will be  washing okay so then we change the order   flexible of course okay so  maybe we can start slowly   because we already started to speak so Martha  I guess you can start okay so hello good   morning everybody I think it's just one minute  after 1 30 so I think we can start our event   uh event on strategic Technologies for European  platform and the event takes one and one and   actually and 15 minutes and first of all I would  like to thank you all of your food join uh today   to our webinar my name is Martha crota and I  represent a Polish national Center for research   and development office in Brussels and before we  start I have few housekeeping announcements the   event will be recorded and streamed on YouTube  and I hope all of you agrees and also after two   presentations today we'll have q a session and  I really encourage all of you to ask questions   via chat and we'll try to answer at least some of  them and also we have a habit that all organizers   say hello in their their national languages  so I will switch into the Polish language is foreign now I will switch into the English language  and I would like to give the floor to Maya   she will say a few words in her national  language why a floor is yours thank you   hello everybody uh welcome also on behalf of  Slovenian business and research Association is so back to English just thank you so  much everybody again for joining us   and thank you for all my colleagues  here in Brussels based offices for   another great event and now we give  the world to the world to alsoya hello good morning good afternoon my name is I hope you find this even the  informative and useful for your   future plans and then I give the floor to Agata thank you so much Russia and good  afternoon everybody I'm another   Hungarian co-organizer representing  the national research development   and Innovation office of Hungary here in  Brussels sitting at the corn rep uh yes so thank you everybody I will join you back  as the moderator of the Q a session but now I   give the floor to tadas who is the virtual host of  the event thank you very much and good afternoon   welcome everyone my name is Tada stumenas and I'm  the head of Lithuanian r d i liaison office in   Brussels and now I would like to switch to my  mother Tong and great living and participants strategy new technology platformer is foreign due I would like to introduce our today's speakers  and according to the agenda we're supposed to have   only one speaker but actually we're going to have  two so it's a big pleasure for us to have David   Lombardo Deputy head of unit from Digi budget  and later on his colleague Angelo Villa Deputy   head of unit from pgr2d I will also talk about  the step so as I recall David you will be the   one who is going to start right yes that's right  thank you very much thank you good afternoon to   all and thank you for the invitation um if you  mentioned uh my name is David Lombardo I am the   deputy head of the newly established task force  for the implementation of the step initiative this   task force indeed sits in Digi budget which  is my uh my directorate general of origin   um I am glad to be here because a key role  of the task force that SSA has just been   launched is indeed to uh to interact with the  project promoters to help them identify the   best sources of funding in the landscape of the  EU budget for this project that are in the in   this critical and strategic sectors which we will  discuss I also will the task force will also help   the member states and implementing authorities  uh that Carry Out programs in shared management   to uh to navigate through the regulatory  landscape and do the best of this initiative   um so I will start the presentation I don't  know if I have control of it uh or if I okay   so someone else is helping I have control of it  okay fantastic tell us okay okay all right so um   just for uh by the way of introduction of this  initiative and uh consequently of the new task   force you might have heard a few days ago the  president of the European commission Ursula of   underlying uh singling out the step initiative as  a key part of the eu's response to the National   Economic and National Security imperative to  preserve a European Edge on critical and emerging   Technologies um so the idea at the beginning of  time or like late last year was to establish a   a sovereignty fund that would help Advance the  European content in in a strategically critical   Technologies however uh upon reflection it has  been decided to uh to propose the step initiative   which uh has the characteristic of relying on  existing funding instruments existing EU programs   because this is uh going to make it uh much easier  and faster to to provide the support that we want   to provide it would have taken by experience  too long to establish a completely new fund so   the step uh which again is an acronym that says  for strategic Technologies for Europe platform   as I say here boosts leverages and steers the  existing programs EU program several of them   to develop to deploy support to a strategic and  critical projects in the area of deep and digital   Technologies which I think is what is the main  topic of today with uh also with my colleague   Angelo but also the step will support clean  Technologies and biotechnologies and here I   have just collected a few examples to give an idea  of what this Technologies are but I would like to   stress that in the proposal these are presented  precisely as examples there is no intention   to present at this stage an exhaustive list of  technologies that can be supported but the idea is   that the technologies will have to be disruptive  or critical uh from including from us from a   study autonomy perspective for them to qualify  for support from this new initiative yes and   as far as the digital uh sectors or the digital  Technologies are concerned here I have listed a   microelectronics Quantum cloud and Edge computing  artificial intelligence and cyber security   as well as Robotics and 5G and higher uh other  advanced form of connectivity but to say this is   not an exhaustive list next slide try this please  so as I mentioned earlier the step initiative or   the step proposal I should say which is by the way  currently being negotiated if you wish discussed   and negotiated between the council and the  Parliament the EU Parliament European Parliament   has trained three main planks three main  components it aspires at focusing the existing it proposes the reinforcement the budgetary  reinforcement of a few of them and also   it creates some tools to develop and exploit  synergies across these programs so when it comes   to focusing what we mean is that the proposal  foresee is that for several instruments like the   equation policy the rrf digital Europe and new  for health uh in the basic regulations of these   programs uh additional objectives and or windows  are being added to Cutter specifically to these   uh sectors that I mentioned earlier um in terms of  targeted reinforcement the proposals are requests   additional resources for invest EU for the  Innovation fund for the European investment you   know for the European Innovation Council and for  the defense fund for European Defense fund and I   will discuss this a bit later and I now would like  to describe the the the synergies which is really   the the core work of my task force so um first  of all we will develop a so-called sovereignty   portal so we Aspire at creating a web-based  platform Where We Gather and centralize all the   information about calls and procurements from EU  funds not only from the fans or the programs that   EU the commission directly manages because this  is already available but also for the programs   that we Implement through are implementing  Partners in particular the member states when   it comes to cohesion programs and and recovery  and resilience facility so uh so this will be   a first uh task that we have then another form of  synergy is uh in the form of a sovereignty seal so   the legislation foresees that uh the projects  which apply to uh directly managed program by   the commission and which are assessed as uh  passing some minimum uh quality uh thresholds   um receive a sovereignty uh seal which is a bit  like a label or a stamp uh that would then uh will   make it easier for these projects to receive  uh complementary or funding from other uh EU   programs in particular uh the idea is from uh the  programs that are managed uh by the member states   and other uh implementing partners and we can  discuss uh if there isn't just how this might work   then there is this one stop shop which is indeed  the task force that I discussed was set up in July   the idea would be to support both the project from  others on one side as I mentioned but also uh the   implementing patterns and the national authorities  on the other and finally we are also uh looking at   um adjusting the state aid framework for  example to uh to allow for a bit of a higher   uh Aid content for uh for projects which are step  related and that take place or are implemented in   um assisted regions um next slide tell us please  yeah this is the slide about the the reinforcement   the budgetary reinforcements which The Proposal  requests so uh in total The Proposal uh six about   10 billion of additional funding which are  split across different programs uh 3 billion   for invest EU to uh to an 2.6 for the European  Innovation Council which Angela will talk about   5 billion for the Innovation fund and one and a  half billion for European Defense fund um these   uh top-ups as we call them are meant to uh then  uh support a much bigger amount of Investments   through the leverage effect for example uh the  invest you uh the EU additional money would back a   bigger guarantee and the guarantee in itself will  then back uh 10 times as much investment typically   these are the typical estimates that we see in  in the past implementation of the invest you   um The Proposal importantly also introduces  some incentives for member states to   um devote more of their of their resources to step  sectors both in the cohesion policy and in the rrf   so for example with respect to the commission  the idea is that the Sovereign TCL as I mentioned   would allow member states to directly fund these  projects that have been awarded the label and   also there is it foreseen that for Step 11  Pro projects the member states would get a   higher pre-financing to the tune of 30 percent  and also possibly full 100 co-financing uh by   the EU budget and for the rrf the idea is that  uh we are the proposal would allow for a higher   share of rrf funds to be uh implemented through  the investeu which would then of course allow   the member states to take advantage of the of the  multiplying factor of the investor um next slide   yeah this is I see that this is the part of the  presentation that Angelo would do so I uh evangelo   is with us yes I see him I will give the floor  to him to complete the presentation thank you   thank you David and thanks taras for organizing  once more good afternoon everybody I want to   explain now a little bit from the the DJ RTD side  what that step proposal means for Horizon Europe   in particular because I think for your community  one of the main instruments here of interest is   indeed the European Innovation Council I am the  deputy of unit to this new European Innovation   council at djrtd which exists only since May so  we're still very very much in the baby phase of   this unit but the EIC is not and I want to first  put into context of what you know about the EIC   uh what David has just explained so if a Top-Up to  the EIC is coming from step what does that mean so   now you know that the EIC consists of a Pathfinder  a transition pillar and then the accelerator when   we talk about step we're talking about the top up  and actually an old compartment I'll come back to   that in the EIC fund which is the EIC accelerator  so we are talking about Investments not about   grants but we're talking about investments  into scaling up companies next slide please you also know that there is a  budget breakdown which David   has already referred to know where the  money should come from the 2.63 for for   the EIC and we can come back to that set  of particular interest to you next slide what are we trying to do and why   in the EIC you you probably know all of you that  we we currently have the possibility under the   accelerator to provide grounds combined with  Equity so this is called the Blended Finance   or Equity only Investments and our investment  component can go up to 15 million euro this is for   any breakthrough companies which complies with the  work program priorities can be any breakthrough   technology or any breakthrough Innovation  which has been identified in in a work program   and um the the new compartment would now allow  us to have so-called follow-on Investments   not only to companies which come from the EIC  brand so which I've successfully gone through   the Pathfinder in in the transition pillar but to  to any company so any company which complies with   the requirements of the step LED criteria which  would underlie this new compartment could gain   Finance from here we're talking about Equity only  I said there is no combination of Grants needed   and this is for the EIC the creation of a  sovereignty seal David has already explained   this is um complementary so to say and we would  hope that member states pick this up a lot you you   play a role in this because I um happened to hear  that the Seal of Excellence which is basically the   system on the horizon which you're also familiar  with um the Seal of Excellence is something which   is rather successful in some member states and  mentioned earlier already this day Spain that is   apparently financing all seals of accidents so it  makes active use of what David was explaining that   there's a screening already done and there's kind  of a quality label to a specific type of project   and member states can and in some cases do Finance  this very very largely but not all of them member   states there are others who don't make use of  that at all and it's up to you to judge with your   member state representatives in how far that is  actually Justified there might sometimes be good   reasons to do so in other cases maybe it is just  the the lack of awareness about this possibility   or just some some other reason which is maybe void  of a real rni logic behind it next slide please so we are going to support the equity only the  range here would be that these are investments   which can go up to 50 million to non-bankable  companies smes and then there is a slight   bias at the stage here that we would also want to  allow small mid caps in order not to kill certain   companies not just because they have successfully  grown in the meantime you know why they're going   through through our investment pipeline and this  is a different size and when I say 50 million   we're talking about what the EIC would provide as  we say anchor investment basically in the process   because as you know all the Investments which we  Undertake from the EIC fund they they are kind of   anchor Investments this is not the objective the  the amount which comes out here is not the the   final objective this is the start of a syndication  with private financers private Equity Funds   in an in an investment round which usually goes  much much higher so here it could be I don't know   100 million 150 200 million we we had financing  rounds under the current conditions which went in   the range of 100 million all together with our  maximum investment of 15 million that depends   obviously very much on the company its management  team not only its technology but it's a maturity   for the markets how interesting it is for for  private investors so why are we proposing this   year one could say um well 50 million is a lot and  if the financing around goes to 100 million that's   it well the the point is that we we still do lose  companies a lot to other parts of the world where   the pockets are are deeper and when we talk  about strategically important Technologies   you can just imagine we nurture a company through  any tool maybe it could come off the structural   funds sometimes out of the Innovation fund you  you name it but we we have a European company   which comes to the rounds of Investments of  like a hundred million will it stop there no   obviously not Google didn't neither did Skype  none of these companies stops there they have   another investment run afterwards before growing  into a really mature company and these are sizes   which we cannot cope with under the current  SME and this is the feedback I come to back   to that in a minute this is the feedback which  companies give to us so in order to avoid that   the companies which we successfully nurtured  even up to the level of having a first large   investment round would then be forced to go into  another um part of the world and potentially   even in Parts which might be very problematic  for us thinking about strategic Technologies   must not always be the US it can well be China  or other parts of the world we we don't want to   allow this we don't want to allow us not the right  word we don't want to force companies to do this   this would be exactly the opposite of what we want  to achieve in terms of technological sovereignty   then the fund Investments that you you know the  story is complementary to invest EU because some   people might ask and I've seen that David has  explained that there's quite some money going   into invest EU as well and invest EU does not only  have guaranteed products they also have a venture   capital um fillier as you know but that functions  very differently those are investments of much   smaller size into the companies because the the  amounts which come from the eif in most of the   cases through invest EU they go into funds did  not go into companies so in a fund which has an   investment strategy for I don't know you name it  five ten years and has a certain thematic priority   so this should continue to be possible and  it's also useful to never strengthen that   with step but it's a different system this is  not about these large financing rounds we're   talking about where the EIC is indeed and Remains  the unique instrument which the EU has created   in order to make sure that those Innovations  mature and then stay in in Europe next slide   please so this is what I refer to from the EIC  figures and then also from our market analysis   it is very clear that the companies in Europe they  they they continue like those which successfully   grow obviously if they don't they will never  be in need of financing around which goes   beyond 100 million but we have those companies  and those are the ones Everybody is watching   so again when we have strategic Technologies these  are precisely the companies we want to have here   they make a real difference not only in  terms of economic development for Europe   but also in terms of strategic orientations  strategic autonomy Capital cost of those companies   at that curve or at that level of the curve of  growth are very very high and we are just not   in the same league yet we're getting much better  we're getting really much better and the EIC is   by now the the largest Equity investor in that in  that area and that segment or off the market but   um we're not the only ones at least I don't  want to say it's only the EIC but also some   member State activities and we were getting  slowly better but we're still lagging behind   certainly the US and then also there are quite  some potent funds in other parts of the world   which can be even more problematic than the US  so yeah I think the rest I said next slide please the the EIC is facing an  over subscription already now   here you see some some figures which um in my  opinion they uh forcefully make the point which   I was trying to make that this money is is well  invested the success rate of our instrument is in   the range of what uh one one would expect  for Venture Capital Investments it is not   that everybody goes through obviously not but it's  also not impossible to um to to obtain our support the rest I said last slide I think this is  already the thank you so let me wrap up again we   we have step as a Top-Up a star video set it would  allow larger financing rounds into strategically   particularly important Technologies which these  are not already said this is still to be decided   in in more detail but um the use of budget in  the EIC is a way to pursue those this strategic   autonomy through strategic Technologies now  because our instrument as you know I mean we   have a pretty immediate effect once the financing  round is out there the the company gets the money   now we're accelerating our investment process  as well and because there have been some uh   some hiccups which you're well aware of but um  we are accelerating that process and once the   money goes into the market it has an immediate  effect you know the company can use it and it   can grow you can basically watch it grow which is  very different from other EU support instruments   including insight and Horizon Europe thanks a lot  for so much and looking forward to the discussion   thank you very much thank you for both  of you and now I would like to give the   floor to my colleague agota who is going  actually to manage now q a part so agota   we are in your hands now thank you stand up to now  I have a very easy task because we only received   one question from the phone or there is a second  one but first then let's let me read the out loud   the first question that arrived so what is the  rationer behind the proposed budget cut of pillar   2 although I saw that this slide was quickly  turned on uh so that is this 800 million euro   to the benefit of the EIC so the main question  is that would the step have a distinct focus on   doer use Technologies or what is the reason why we  should really change the let's say a location of   funds thanks I I don't know who will respond to  which question but I let this for you to decide   when I start with the pillar 2 you can maybe add  on if there's anything on Dual use now you want   to still share with us um this this argument or  pieces this is everywhere and then this is also   one of the difficulties maybe we have because  pillar 2 and the community behind projects in   pillar 2 understandably still remembers very well  that there were other cases not very far from not   in a very firm far history where um the pillar 2  had given money to other types of activities and   it was shifted around so what's the rationale here  I alluded to it already it's it's good that you   give me the opportunity to explain this because we  now we we often hear that question and we are kind   of feeling that we haven't thought this through  or we are like kind of cannibalizing between the   the pillars and no uh I uh I'm only in this unit  actually where I am now since three months I've   worked until a two Industrial Technologies before  so I know a little bit what I'm talking about   but you judge so pillar two finances  Technologies which address societal challenges   across all clusters in particular the industry  cluster where I was working on but in our   clusters it's a societal challenges now we want  to finance strategically important Technologies   there's not a big difference the the point is  that what we're trying now with step is that   more accentuated even though that list you saw  of Technologies is really wide you'll struggle   to find the technology where you say this is fine  and so to be financed under pillar too and you   would already see it excluded from watabi that  presented so but just to make that point this is   an accentuation of Technologies which pillar  2 would Finance anyway in our interpretation   accentuated in the sense that there will be  a narrower Focus strategically important will   have to be defined in some way that it does not  address all the Technologies from from pillar 2.  

and then there's the sense of urgency which David  refer to and which the president has referred to   in a state of the union speech we're talking  about strategically important Technologies   and we're living in a world right now you do a use  question that also shows us very much we're living   in a different world so if we want to have an a  rather immediate or at least short-term effect   of investments into research and innovation to  create and to nurture and develop strategically   important Technologies we got to choose which  instrument is the best to do this in these   next two three years step is to step  is study the steps it's a it can be a   sovereignty fund under the next mff I don't  know I don't have a crystal ball it can be   a strategically new orientation of fp10 in  which pillar 2 might have an own cluster or   you name it I don't know the structures about  strategically important Technologies that's   when the programming period is over so four  years from from now but what until then   if we just leave everything as it is pillar 2 is  not very good in producing technology bringing   Technologies to the market quickly there are  lots of projects including the Partnerships   which as you know better than I do they go up  to tl7 normally and then we'll have to see what   happens some areas it's easier because the big  companies drive it forward and it's a clean steel   or whatever in other areas it's much less obvious  so if we want to have that impact the EIC is in   our interpretation the best tool where we can put  it it's the very similar type of Technologies just   in an accentuated way but it's much more the  direct and it probably has a larger leverage   effect but that no I don't even want to go into  but this is the rationale so I'm not thinking   that we're cannibalizing between pillars at all  thank you great and maybe then about to our use yes um thank you not just to say that um you  know the Strategic uh element this critical   aspect from the Strategic autonomy perspective  is indeed the key uh a key component of this   initiative is a key driver of this initiative  so um I think we cannot say that that uh this   will be a you know this the the step would  only focus on on the values every uh project   will be assessed on its own uh basis on its own  merits uh but it's indeed uh the projects will   have to have this uh critical element of uh for  example helping us to uh win off from dangerous   dependencies uh in in this critical sector so I  guess I don't have uh an answer besides saying   that uh the analysis will be on a Case by case  basis but we need to remember where the step   initiative uh comes from what are the goals  that it tries to achieve which have um which   have a lot to do with uh supporting or enhancing  our strategic autonomy in this critical sector thank you so much I would have a relevant comment  because I could see on the slide that also in the   defense fund you would mainly or only finance  research related activities so is it really   focusing only on research these additional funds  or or it's just also focusing at no not at all   only research I mean w can compliment but you saw  the instruments The Innovation fund that's very   highly I mean the defense fun story so because  on the slide under the defense fund it was added   in the next column that it's meant for research  but maybe it's just because we are talking about   research so it's also a possibility or it's it's  exclusively research only the defense fund I mean   I mean the the what we are trying to get is  uh the development of new emerging critical   Technologies so if you are trying to uh if you  want to fund for example this installment of   solar panels right there is not this is not step  I mean the solar panel exists right uh and we know   what they are and of course we we are dependent  on those but the installment of solar panels is   not something that we do with step we have other  programs here what step is trying to do is trying   to help companies which have a lot of uh which  have nice new ideas potentially disruptive but   that they are so uncertain and so risky that in  fact uh typically they don't get off the ground   uh and so we want to increase the our capacity  to to to develop this uh disrupt disruptive new   emerging Technologies uh in-house in in the EU  so uh it doesn't mean that we don't do the rest   right with the budget but this specific initiative  is uh for uh the development of Technologies if   you wish right uh so the uh some ideas that have  the potential to have very big implications down   the line but that because of their of their  status they uh run the risk of just dying   before even being born so we would like to uh  or as as Angelo said earlier they might have   to go somewhere else to see the light of day  we don't want to do that we want to be able to   we want to take more if you wish we want to take  more risks with this with this technologies that   because then we would like to have them being  European rather than having uh to depend on   these new technologies in critical sectors  from potentially uh friendly or unfriendly   allies or Partners I should say there was  actually a very concrete question coming   from a company who would like to scale up their  bus production but these are very unique buses   they say but then such kind of a scale up  of production could this be a good possible   candidate for for let's say an Equity Fund from  the EU understand for this is rather for new   technologies so if a technology is not new anymore  then scaling up is not already meant to understand   well not from the EIC so much is sure and the  IC is not the instrument for that it's for   breakthrough scaling a breakthrough Innovation  but in in the making and so not natural produce   but or invest EU invest EU is very broad so no I  don't know in which pillars of investing you this   top up which Darby there was presenting they will  then eventually be used uh the the risk Finance   philia of invest EU is just one small element of  it there are guarantee instruments Windows under   investor you go across the whole Market they go  from infrastructure to including production I'm   pretty sure not the research and Innovation window  but the the other windows so this is as much as I   can say yeah I mean typically uh some of these  companies uh may very well be capable of of uh   of racing also private normal funding yeah it  doesn't have to be uh you know from Europe from   the description that I've seen in the chat this  seems to be a quite established company that   might very well have a lot of um you know they  might be able to make a business case for for   even for private funding but uh I don't I wouldn't  want to uh give an answer yes or no uh certainly   for two reasons first because uh indeed uh the the  specific uh scope of the of the step initiative is   perhaps the most hotly debated uh of the of the  elements of The Proposal as I said you know the   proposal is still being in a sense negotiated  and potentially changed uh by the council in   the parliament so we need to see what in the end  is that it is adopted and the second reason is   that even if we had the current proposal as if  it was approved it would be not up to uh to me   in particular to the task force that I represent  to actually uh determine the eligibility but we   would be uh reverting you know we'll have to see  whether the in the in the individual programs that   uh that the fund that the EU budget uh proposes  whether they would be eligible and as Angelo said   uh one thing that we will do is we will give  advice on what is the most appropriate tool   so that if that you don't go up the the wrong tree  so to say that you make your either you focus your   uh application to in the correct uh in the most  appropriate calls that's something that we will   do and we will be happy to do uh as part of  our support to to project uh promoters once   the the initiative is in fact uh alive goes live  hopefully uh even the beginning of the next year   I'm sure this will be very useful because always  the case with new tools that we are a bit lost   at the beginning so then I'm afraid that you will  not have a very clear answer for the next question   about when submitting the step application are the  details of the application already known because   you will even just that not even the no I do yes  I have an answer in the sense that in the first   in the first instance there is no such a thing as  a step application but there is an application to   the individual program uh we will do a first  assessment of the course which are already   outstanding to see which ones are relevant for  step because as I mentioned earlier one of the   tasks of my one of the goal of my task force  is to centralize all the information about the   the useful calls or the relevant calls so uh we  will look at the existing goals we may uh try to   identify a more more like like some elements  in the application form for the future calls   that are relevant to step but for the time  being the application depends on which which   instrument you are trying to tap uh and so there  is not such a thing as a step application and we   would need to the application will need to be  following the the the the guidelines and the   requirements of the individual fund which will  be pursued so this will just be your next step   if you need an additional type of core or you  will use the current instruments in uh how they   are at the moment just in that additional budget  so this this is uh one question one question will   be indeed whether the different programs will  organize themselves in a way that they have   a very step specific calls or whether whether  indeed they would want to have uh potentially uh   broader calls in which the step projects can then  apply so that I I don't know it will need to be   discussed I guess it depends a bit also on the on  the final uh shape of the scope of the step that   will be decided but uh in any case um I don't  think we will get to a situation where the same   call and will I mean the same template will uh  will be useful or will be requested for all the   different instruments because they are different  they are different they they work differently they   are assessed differently but certainly one thing  that we want to have is what this I mentioned with   the CL that for example there's some serious  simplification could come about when you if   you apply for one one program and and and and get  this label then uh what we would like to see is   that in the next application uh several several  processes or several uh steps will be already   kind of automatically uh completed so to speak  so there could be skipped to to be to to be clear   thank you then there is a very short question  about the focus so will it be R and I focused   or commercialization Focus or both in a way yeah  I responded to that in the chat already I quoted   it both until the instruments and stuff is that  the instruments really cover uh very different   parts of the Innovation pipeline if you want  so both then we could see that in a way the AI   data and Robotics partnership offered their help  so they would gladly co-create Innovative work   program which is uh relevant to their field so on  the digital part that there was also a question   integrated so that uh is there was ambition to  also set strategic orientations for something   like accelerating AI deployment in Europe  so would that be part of this digital pillar   I think there's also two elements of um response  I would give to to that Philip we first of all   the the EIC already now is financing breakthrough  Innovation and AI or generative AI is is part of   that we have the work program 24 coming up this  is just in one illustration there have been other   work programs where AI I think has already been  covered but maybe since it's evolving so quickly   generative AI operating next year is going to  be the first time we'll have a challenge most   probably um on generative Ai and its use in in  all its development in Europe that said as you   know the work program is not adopted yet this is  um we're not very far from there so that's why I'm   mentioning it it's um I think very likely that we  would have such a challenge under the accelerator   um but let's see so yes it's it's covered  so now the EIC is for the time being about   any breakthrough Innovation so what will  happen with step where as I said it's an   accentuated uh way of like the strategically  most important Technologies generate AI I can see it in there but that's a crystal ball  let's wait until negotiations are over I started   to set it's very hard to foresee what the real  uh scope will be in the end this is the main   interest always of the negotiators so let's see  and then about whether there is any interaction   possibilities with um the the partnership I know  the partnership well obviously and I'm happy that   that we have it um your your partnership  should normally already be in contact with   the AI relevant program manager under the EIC  I'm still too fresh to remember all the names   by heart right now but we have a program manager  I'm dealing with them artificial intelligence and   um if that hasn't been the case then you  should reach out or make sure that there's   a mutual reaching out to each other this is  something which is usually happening the PMS   reach out to the Partnerships in their remit  and vice versa I might just add something on   this because I'm sitting in the era forum and uh  there we have a new initiative that we might set   up some guidelines that would also make it in  a way facilitate the use of AI and especially   generative AI so this is also coming of course  this is not a bad step something relevant uh I   think also in regulatory terms if I may say  that I think without being an expert but I   think Europe is pretty much at the Forefront of  these regulatory developments in regards AI it's   so quick that obviously policy makers can't can  hardly catch up with that pace but I think we're   we're pretty much Advanced no so you guys would  obviously know much better but there's nothing   right now in Step which would provide guidelines  and it's more the processes you already know I can three reallocation so there is a concrete question  if you can elaborate it a bit more which clusters   will be affected and in what percentage and  if it's not defined yet then when we have   more information about this and no I don't think  that there's any decision yet about that what I   can tell you but I want to emphasize again what I  said before I'm going to take the dramatism a bit   out of it now this is one of the situations where  I claim to know a bit what I'm talking about and   um yeah you know so it's the same Technologies in  the end but um no I don't know for the specific   clusters and I have really no idea so I don't  want to speculate about it but um the um uh   what concerns the impact on the work  programs because we're talking about   a few years now you know we're  talking about the remaining years   and the Horizon so in 2024 there  is going to be virtually no impact so anybody having projects there I  understand the nervousness of people   virtually no impact and then there's a very  gradual but minimal impact over the remaining   years of the program the amount is not so massive  anyway but this is what I can say next year   basically nothing and then gradually a little bit  thank you great and there was something about TRS   so are you then saying that only projects  of TRL seven to nine will be funded yeah that depends a bit which instrument again  so investor you has an rni window so that is   um usually I don't know it includes seven to  nine but it's probably not limited to that but   under the EIC um there was already a response by  Pim here in the chat which I have liked as well   the esa accelerator as I said is this these  are mature companies which actually go to the   market and search for a second round of equity  Investments so that Tri level is pretty high so   yeah seven to nine certainly thank you I think uh  now a new question is just popping up so when can   we expect a decision on the step program what are  the chances that it gets approved by the council   and the member states and maybe David already  said that if we are optimistic it will happen   by the beginning of next year but you might buy  some more concrete ideas okay I what I can say   is that uh the negotiations in the Parliament  and the council have taken two tracks there is   one aspect that has to do with the legislative  elements let's say the technical aspects of The   Proposal which have to do for example with the  flexibilization of the use of the cohesion funds   or the rrf or for example the expansion of the the  the extension of the eligibility to larger firms   in in some in some cohesion programs this is been  discussed in this is proceeding uh relatively uh   fast in the council and in the parliament and then  there is the other negotiation part which is the   budgetary implications which have basically which  have taken a different track because they are part   of the discussions on The Wider review of the of  the mff no of the multi-year financial framework   and the on uh on so so on in terms of the amounts  of the top-ups uh these additions to the programs   those will they will be discussed as a package  together with the other requests that have been   made for example for migration or for the for  Ukraine for the support to Ukraine and this   will ultimately be decided by the the heads of  state um and the and it seems like the calendar   might be such that they might decide uh still  perhaps in November uh so as I as you mentioned   I got a uh it is uh possible that indeed by the  end of the year we have uh all the decisions   falling and the adoptions falling into place I  do want to stress that uh in a sense uh the fact   that we have established the task force for step  in July before all of these decisions are taken   uh is uh it's a it's a signal it's a sign that uh  in the commission we do think that there is a need   to uh to ensure that these programs work better  together regardless of whether they are increased   or they are expanded but we we feel that there is  scope to uh provide a more effective support to to   the companies to the to the project promoters in  the EU and so we uh we intend to uh to work hard   to that end uh pretty much almost independently  of what gets uh decided so we will still try to   coordinate the programs better we will try to see  whether there are synergies to be to be caught or   whether we are leaving some gaps in which our  companies uh fall uh without us noticing and   so in that respect uh this kind of conversations  that we are having and the other ones have been   proposed in the chat uh we are open uh we are this  is our part of our job is to identify with the   help of the beneficiaries that sounds excellent  yes ways to to do better with what we have   um we would like to have more and hopefully they  will they will give us more because these are   important uh issues but regardless of whether  we get more we need to find a way to do better   and this is very important also from like longer  term perspective because for example we need to   ask ourselves the questions are these formats  for the call too different from one another I   mean that's a question right maybe we cannot do  anything about it right now but if we come to   that conclusion we need to take note and we  need to have that insight into the into the   cooking stage when we designed the next nff right  so there is a lot of work that we need to do   which is independent of the of the outcome of the  negotiations although of course we are a lot we   are you know defending our proposal uh very hard  and we invite those that have a say or those they   have a way of getting their voice heard to also  uh support it so that we can have this uh this   additional resources that as Angelo explained we  clearly uh could deploy a fairly fairly quickly   given the pent-up demand that our instruments  are facing right now I think you more or less   even responded to the next question about the  future because uh you are definitely working on   the future already now and these synergies might  really end up being used in the next mff planning   but maybe you have already an idea what the future  might be so be that we just continue this step   process or some of you mentioned that one of you  mentioned that we might rather have a completely   separate sovereignty fund but I suppose this  will come up from this whole process at the end   I think uh advertise you is also Angelo said  there is no Crystal Ball but I can say and also   if I just look at the again at the speech of the  president that I quoted at the beginning of the   presentation everything uh suggests that the the  direction of travel is towards a world where these   kind of concerns are more and more pressing and  more and more important so um everything would   suggest that uh when we when the when the time  comes let's say towards 2025 where the new uh the   next mff will begin to take shape uh the Strategic  autonomy uh and uh and and ensuring that we can   pursue our goals in a reliable manner no depending  on ourselves mostly will be uh a key priority   everyone say a top priority and so therefore  it's quite likely that uh both the task force   has been set up but also this step kind  of focus will become more structural uh   element of the landscape of the e-budget what does  this mean in practice there will be a fund or no   will we have the same instruments or no that we  cannot tell in fact that is part of the of the   learning that we need to do the next couple  of years where the thinking and the learning   so so I would say we don't know the shape or the  form but I think we can reasonably expect that uh   this emphasis on on this kind of Technology side  on the on the importance to be to be autonomous   is here to stay for the foreseeable future  then I saw briefly a question about the the   geographical distribution yes we are a widening  organization I think that's a good question indeed   um you know uh the step also will will uh rely on  for example on the cohesion funds on the rrf uh   and uh indeed part of the purpose of the step is  precisely to ensure that we can still keep a Level   Playing Field you know even though we have for  good reasons uh introduce this temporary state aid   framework where arguably uh the member states that  have more deeper pockets are in a more favorable   situation so precisely the point of using the EU  budget to support this certificate sector is to   give an opportunity to all countries in a kind of  a balanced way to develop these Technologies and   from that perspective a lot of care has been taken  in developing The Proposal that we are discussing   uh to to achieve both to increase the support for  the sectors but maintain respect respecting the   the goals for example of the Coalition programs  so for example even where it has been proposed to   open up the cohesion programs to larger companies  it has been done so only in in some countries   which have which are relatively less uh developed  less Advanced precisely to try to make a balancing   act so I think the answer to the question is that  there are mechanisms and research to ensure that   uh the Level Playing Field in the EU single Market  is maintained across the different levels of   economic development of the different regions in  the EU thank you so much maybe just one very last   question which is very technical and apparently  we have some really knowledgeable participants   and I cannot even read it out loud but the main  question is about deadlines so if the deadline of   all these step relevant programs will be prolonged  in order to be able to finish I suppose the the   projects that would start under step but I don't  know maybe you know more about this regulation   so I think one thing I don't know I haven't  been able to read the whole question well yes   but I think one thing that I do know is that the  proposal MB suggests the extending the deadline   uh for the cohesion programs uh by uh from the  past question programs by one year because the   argument is that we are inviting uh the member  states to uh revise their current programs to uh   increase the the step content so to speak we are  giving some incentives from them to do so and we   hope that they take them up and therefore their  administrative capacity is likely to be locked up   into this revision exercise and we want to take  into account that and we are at the legislation   is proposing that therefore extra time is  provided to close uh the previous programs   right so that that's what I'm something that I'm  aware of but I'm not sure to be honest if I'm   answering the question that is in the in the chat  if I'm not dancing maybe the question can be uh   asked uh again but certainly we are aware of  the implications in terms of capacity uh in   in many member states to uh to look at again a  reopen the this operational programs especially   under cohesion but not only thank you so much I  think this was a great response as far as I could   understand and uh I just really want to say thank  you to both of our speakers because we learned a   lot this is a quite complex topic and a very new  topic even if it's using existing instruments   so thank you very much for for also the  slides so can we share the slides maybe   with the participants in a PDF or format that  would be great because then they can also just   look up all these relevant information thank you  for that so we will send out a message to all the   participants within the presentation and the link  where we recorded the whole event and just one   more thank you for all the participants also and  to our speakers and we hope to see you next time   when we organize something similar thank you  for the opportunity tagota to explain it but   it's always good these exchanges is very useful  sometimes there can be lots of misunderstandings   yes thank you also from my side and as I said  uh we opened to uh this this type of exchanges   these are uh these are one one mission of  my new task force so we look forward and uh   we are open to uh suggestions that have been  mentioned in the in the chat to to get things   uh to do more with what we have thank you David  and good luck for your team thank you very much

2023-09-30

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