Consumer Protection & Privacy in a Digital Age A Global Perspective

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all right so I would like to give it a little  sponsor shout out so this is for burst IQ   is the company behind lifegraph a technology that  revolutionizes how sensitive data is collected   managed and controlled powered by an Innovative  web 3 ready blockchain platform life graph equips   your business with trusted secure and intelligent  driven data ecosystem lifecraft allows you to   understand humans like never before use it to  build solutions that meet the needs of your   business better than you ever thought possible  all on a breakthrough platform that is amazingly   easy to adopt this panel is going to be a a panel  that focuses on consumer protection and privacy   they will cover topics including new privacy  regulations and laws around the world including   Europe Australia and the United States obviously  they're going to be talking about Micah they will   touch on reporting requirements and discuss  the impact of privacy Technologies and artists   distinguished panels will be introduced by Greg  Greg if you'd come up and introduce your panelists welcome everybody I hope you had a great break   so this is an interesting panel  because it um delves into issues of   privacy as well as consumer protection you know if  we're building these Technologies for the people   we need to balance uh one against the other uh  we have some really distinguished people here to   talk about this from all sides of the spectrum I  guess we could start from my left so Frank rakota   I'm just going to say a couple words and then  I'd love for you guys to maybe say some of you   already have been up here and so people know  you nevertheless Frank ricotta is the CEO and   founder of burst IQ the developer of life graph  the solution that revolutionizes how sensitive   data is collected and managed and controlled  frankly there's over 30 years of experience   as a CEO and CTO empowering people building  companies and creating innovative solutions um we also have um Michael benziken he's  a former chair and CEO of Life Sciences   multinational founder and executive director  of the non-profit citizen Warrior Foundation Mike was dedicated to creating more efficient  Economic Development systems for foreign disaster   relief and strengthening International  diplomacy through cross-border Commerce   his organization aims to unify people under  the common cause preserve the middle class   and reverse the cultural  degradation providing education   and tools to individuals and distressed  communities reverse cultural degradation   we emerge in Tech and there's a lot of cultural  degradation to go around to reverse [Music]   sorry if I mispronounce is the Chief Information officer of  the U.N joined staff pension fund an   80 billion dollar fund that Services thousands  of veterans in one retirees and 190 countries   there's also digital transformation  working group lead of the United Nations   dinner design and built and identity management  system for the UN to support and process the   payments of the pension fund as well and then  actually there was a last minute change on   on the panel Amelia yes uh so you've already  seen Amelia up here Amelia Gardner everybody government Innovation leader and blockchain  Advocate she's done some amazing things in   Utah which already many of which you've heard and  Utah is going to be one of the states we're going   to talk about uh the Child Protection Law in Utah  touches on privacy as well because it requires   people to perhaps upload their credentials to  access websites and so on um so with that I   kind of want to give you an overview of what the  uh the scope is about and then let's delve into it   so what we're really talking about especially at  the government blockchain Association I'm just   pulling up my notes Here what we're talking about  is governments trying to balance things as they   always do between one group's interest or another  group's interest sometimes it's the same group   and so privacy is obviously an important right  privacy was used for example in Gold versus Wade   as a uh you know to talk about how a woman's right  to privacy uh can lead to birth control recently   that was overturned I guess uh the Supreme  Court there's a lot of controversy privacy   uh also we have people in government obviously  some of whom uh want crimes to be solved we had   William Barr for example in Trump's Administration  famously kind of against encryption we have leaked   documents recently from the Spanish government  saying that they're against anti-encryption   there's a lot of that around the world and so we  want to talk about that um and yeah maybe that's   a good place to start so end-to-end encryption  is something that obviously preserves privacy   uh it's something that we are told by Facebook is  in WhatsApp uh we have to take the word for it uh I was also uh in telegram you know it's not on  by default but uh Pavel Dove uh has a history   of trying to stand up for his users I guess he was  booted out of Russia by the Russian government uh   in a way made it difficult for him now he lives in  Dubai uh so all these Messengers incorporate these   uh this privacy protections of course they're  Apple there's Apple that FBI wanted them to unlock   phones they refused there's all that stuff um on  the one hand there's you know people's privacy on   the other hand uh Isis was using telegram to you  know to organize and uh let's just say door of   investors were not happy uh with with that um how  do you see going forward uh do you see end-to-end   um encryption being under attack do you see it  declining or do you see it or increasing in in the   space I guess we can go in order so Frank so I get  to be the first one so you know when you look at   encryption one it's just an enforcement mechanism  you know it's on that spectrum of privacy enhanced   Tech and where does it where does it fall um and  again we're balancing individual rights versus   um you know the safety of a broader Society but  I think we need to take a step back and kind of   look at this and what we've given up over time as  well so you know when you when you get online and   you see https oh okay it's encrypted but you  know both sides are really looking at looking   at that data you know where we've compromised  our own privacy for the sake of free services   and now we're trying to kind of claw that back  and a lot of the blockchain web 3 foundations   you're really pushing more ownership and privacy  of individual data out out to the user where it's   more of a consented mechanism so do I see  end-to-end encryption really continuing to   to explode yes I do but I also see you know Tech  techniques on a broader level to even penetrate   that Bell when we talk about WhatsApp I hate to  tell you Facebook can see your WhatsApp messages   that's why their signal and other things like  that and it's it's not going to go away because   there's a community that'll want their privacy  and will gravitate to those communities that   support individual freedoms at the same time it's  the same argument we have with Bitcoin you know   it's used for nefarious purposes but yet they  like the auditability of it in actuality so yes   we're going to see a lot more of it I think  all right Amelia what do you see out of Utah   um so Utah is we have a unique culture in Utah  um a large part of that is is is is my my lineage   and in My DNA and I was just looking up the how  many of you have heard uh this quote by Benjamin   Franklin those who would give up essential  Liberty to purchase a little temporary security   as I'm reading deserve neither Liberty nor safety  right so as you think about it throughout history   I'm thinking like way back like way back um was it  was it safer for the Hebrews to stay in Egypt or   to follow Moses right but it was it was safer  for them to stay in Egypt as slaves but they   chose Liberty and left and wandered the Wilderness  for 40 years so then we're going to fast forward   and my ancestor William Brewster who was on  the Mayflower can you all imagine getting   on a rickety Wooden Boat with nothing but the  Stars to guide you to travel across the ocean   so that you can practice religious  liberty do you think that was safe   I don't think so and then and then fast forward  uh you know several hundred years and um and my   family once again left the state of Missouri  and walked on foot across the Rocky Mountains   to settle the valley that I live in today 170  years ago do you think it was safe walking on   foot across the Rocky Mountains in the middle of  the winter no a lot of my a lot of my ancestors   died during that process but they did it so that  they could perhaps so they could have Liberty   and so in the state of Utah we are very protective  of our children and I think you'll probably bring   this up I mean I have six children myself I am a  mama bear you want to you want to see me go from   a nice lady in a dress with high heels into a mama  bear real fast mess with one of my children right   but with that said we value Liberty and so uh as  far as like the end-to-end encryption goes does   it mean that we sacrifice some security absolutely  it does but I think Liberty is worth fighting for Michael don't mess with Mama Bear don't  do it oh yeah for sure okay so the topic what's up like this yeah   yeah okay okay all right so so yeah the the topic  of the panel we're looking at trade-offs right   we're looking at trade-offs right yeah exactly so  so I would okay so I would I don't like it okay   I I would have to say that it's a it's a false  dichotomy so what consumer protections go ahead what consumer protections let's get  started privacy versus consumer protections   what consumer protections so there may be consumer  protections on the law are they being enforced and   how's that playing out in reality so just let's  just start right there what consumer protections   sure I pay for them I love half my my earnings  going to Consumer Protections that's fantastic   you know the regulatory oversight that's  fantastic I'm Pro regulatory reasonable at   regulatory oversight but show me the consumer  protections that protect that protected FTX   unsecured creditors Celsius Network unsecured  creditors where the state the oversight apparatus   literally repeated what we now know to be I can't  say criminally but fraudulent marketing as to how   they generated their yield which was the deciding  factor as to why I moved all my money there   which is now in the debtors estate as ruled by  District 4 in New York as no longer being owned by   the people who put all their stuff there so  consumer protections yeah I made the biggest   investment decision in my life based on the  regulatory apparatus who validated a fraudulent   claim and now in a state who does not rep who's  not recognize federal capital losses to offset   both the principal and earnings generated in  the app that I was essentially coaxed into   bows because of monetary policy I wanted to hedge  against inflation with the stable coin and right a   little suspicion of traffic I I would have to say  so I'm gonna and I don't want to keep on going but   that's just the question that I'm going to inject  what consumer protection it can be on the books   show me words being were forced in a way that's  mitigating meaningless suffering show it to me   by the way um to add to what you're saying  I was recently informed of the IRS has laid   a claim to about 40 50 billion dollars of uh  of tax yeah further line before the debtors   so the government's taking a peace of FTX  of that FTX bankruptcy as New York did with   Celsius Network that took all of our Intel and  then spun it up and then went right up to the   point of of of uh of gross negligence but pull  back right just a little bit to keep it civil   throwing the line okay so that's another thing  yeah I'm in touch with some large uh claimants   in that um in that suit and they're not happy  you know they're saying how can you pay taxes   on stolen money uh interesting question well I  don't want to I don't want to get into that uh   or say words uh okay Dino uh you're you have an  international view on this uh go ahead okay so   let me let me give a a little bit of a Different  Twist and this comes directly from my personal   experience in designing an application that was  intended if you will for a particular type of   demographics so my clients the client the UN joint  staff pension fund are indeed Ray Diaries in most   of the cases we're talking about senior people  that are not very familiar with digital with   computer but who or habit can benefit tremendously  from the technology itself so of course when we   start designing the solution that eventually  we put in practice we look at every tool at our   disposal that could protect the client the end  user so end-to-encryption zero knowledge proof   privacy enhancing technique and so forth and so  on but what we really realize that ultimately   we need to make sure that we protect the user  from themselves because no matter what kind of   technology or encryptions mechanism we may adopt  if they don't use a certain type of dual care   all this technology all this sophisticated  mechanism will not provide the expected benefit   you know on the other side I really felt again  being a former auditor as I shared in previous   comments I felt that I and we as an organization  we had the duty to protect so the challenge in   front of us is how do we package a solution that  makes a use of the latest encryption mechanism the   latest technology mechanism a blockchain that does  not put PRI personal identifiable information on   the Chain but keeps it off the chamber at the same  time creates an independently auditable record   in order to make then this all this process all  this sophistication transparent to the end user   and that was the challenge that ultimately we were  able to address by developing an application that   uses biometrics because ultimately we couldn't  trust them to keep the password the private   key secret because we do know things happen and  especially with people who do not have that level   of expertise of understanding familiarity it would  eventually happen and we couldn't take that risk   so in thinking about okay what kind of secure  mechanism you can use ultimately is themself   protect themselves from themselves and use  themselves as the key to use the system hence   we use the biometric facial recognition profile  to give them access to the system fantastic yeah   for authenticate what you're talking about is  authenticating yourself with the device and you   know when you authenticate by the way in China  they have they experiment and piloted this thing   pay with your face you know and that is a little  bit susceptible to replay attacks you know I   record your face and then I pay as you so if you  authenticate yourself you authenticate to your   device right the device that's in your hand and  then you unlock it with your face or biometrics   the Privacy issue is more about what are your  conversations so I want to I want to add a   little twist here okay private conversations  that we're having we're talking about you know   personal relationships uh sexual relationships  different things those are typically considered   okay you have a right to privacy there in the  context of serving a company or working for a   corporation a lot of stuff is logged including  in the banking system uh employees are typically   observed their conversations are there public  servants I would love for all of government you   know to be transparent or logged uh you know  we have C-SPAN that's excellent I love C-SPAN   you know I would love to extend that to other  things as well um so transparency look if they   want to know how we spend 600 I would like to  know how they spend trillions of dollars and why   um well I think on that and being an elected  official myself I think it's it's it's good to   differentiate between the work that I do publicly  in my job and like the conversations I have with   my child right exactly and so there and there  are people that come and say well I want to have   access to all of your text messages and my reply  is I don't waive my Fourth Amendment right when I   put my name on the ballot like you don't need to  know about the conversations that I'm having with   my teenager or with my mother or with my husband  right um with that said total transparency on   how I choose to spend taxpayer dollars a hundred  percent we should have that we should have that   transparency what about also in corporations  inside you know entities where you're working   in the role of an employee right same question um  does anybody want to take that in terms of yes of   course public servants of a city of a state what  about of a pizzeria I don't know uh was anyone   have opinions about that well okay so a lot a lot  of this is you know talking about conversation   basically can I do I have a right to understand  what your conversations are again I'm going to   go back and forth on this you know one aspect  in an official capacity absolutely if I'm an   employer I want to understand particularly if an  employee is put me at risk conversely you know I   would hope my employees have the ability to have  free flow of conversations on lots of topics and   explore different ideas and positions to come up  with you know a course of action or what we might   be able to do without holding that against them  and you know too often somebody says something all   of a sudden it's held against them when they're  exploring an idea or a concept and we we've lost   the ability to have civil conversations with  the different different opinions without being   without fear of ramifications you know and it's  this also extends I think to some of the bigger   bigger elements who owns you I mean that's really  what what amount what it amounts to particularly   as we transition from this you know full physical  state to a um to to kind of a hybrid a hybrid   state of online physical presence to full virtual  space who owns your personas online who who owns   your ident digital identity who owns that data  and data tracks you know we've relegated a lot   of that to Big Tech at this point in time we're  trying to Claude that back your your European   Union just fine Facebook um a huge amount and  is going to impact their operations there uh we   work a lot with Health Data so there's privacy  regulations associated with Health Data but you   know Most states don't say you own your own Health  Data you have access to it but you don't own it   why you know and other jurisdictions say I can't  store Health Data of a citizen outside Geographic   boundary so again I think the fundamental issue  is who owns you in a digital form and including   your identity which then translates to these other  conversations and topics and I I would hate to for   us to do something that limits our ability to  explore and to push before we say hey this is   what I think well an international spent on that I  spent four years in Canada and you don't own your   health data in Canada and you don't actually have  a right to to view it without a court order unless   you have a doctor that's willing to show it to you  because they're because the government controls   and pays for the medical care the government owns  that information so even though it's my medical   information they own it and um when I was moving  back to the U.S that was a challenge to get all of   my health data to bring with me to the US to give  to my doctor yeah self-sovereignty yeah I think   that's a huge part of what we're here to do right  with blockchain own your own keys not your keys   not your data I guess not your yeah please jump  in so okay I mean can you hear me yes thank you   okay so the monetary value of data is the focus  of the future access is the focus of the future   focus is the focus of the future closer oh my  goodness okay can you hear me now [Laughter] all   right here we go okay to collect my thoughts  now so okay let's say we talk about we want to   have free health care or subsidized Health Care do  you understand the value of your data if properly   tracked to be able to determine probabilistic  outcomes that would be able to innovate   determine what medications are not misdiagnose  direct diagnosis decrease costs in health care   so we it's funny because there's this again  a false dichotomy I keep on saying all these   conversations are false like I just I want to get  to the root cause of it is that it's not so yeah   we ought to own our data but we can send into  whatever we consent into we need to understand   the value of our data can fundamentally change  the things that the so-called left and right who   obstensibly hate each other right now fight over  okay there's so much I'm going to call it graft   and inefficiency and without the knowledge  of the value of data and how it's being used   that can solve the problems that plagued Humanity  since time immemorial and I'm not being hyperbolic I want to ask each of you one question sort  of like a pointed question based on uh your   background so Dino for example you just uh to  look at the international view because you're   at the un uh let me just rattle off a couple  things that's happened just the last few years   um in the okay so we have uh the  European in the EU we've got the uh   well yes we have gdpr for consumer protection  that's important uh it had a big effect uh we we   also have some um new bills coming down the pike  uh there's things like for example the um in the   United Kingdom we have the Online safety Bill uh  for children uh basically you would have to reveal   your age in order to surf the Internet uh because  uh well how would you uh prove that you're over   18. there is ways there's verifiable credentials  but the lawmakers have to learn about those uh  

there's also the Cyber resilience act in the EU uh  that for the first time might encumber open source   developers uh to put stuff in their software or  face prosecution I suppose uh how do you view   this at the UN because obviously it's freedom of  expression by open source developers and others   that has historically been pretty protected but  these days it seems sometimes we go after the   makers of the tools uh you know to force them  to uh spy on their citizens I guess been users   good question so as has been said by people much  more prepared in myself on international law   it goes by saying without saying that the U.N is  an international organization and therefore we   are not subject to any of this legislation  or jurisdiction you just mentioned however   however we feel the duty to actually give the  best examples in complying with this principle   and therefore if you actually try to read  our own internal regulation which by the way   are public we try exactly to mirror if you will  principles that are consistent and aligned with   all these legislation that you just mentioned  so specifically speaking about data protection   and privacy in 2018 again it's something that  you can easily verify publicly in October 2018   the high level management Committee of the  UN which is a body that coordinates all the   activities and the policy at the high level all  the U.N entities the 50 is United entity that   benedetta was alluding to before issue exactly 10  principles for data protection and privacy and if   you read them you will see that by and large  are reflecting exactly the same principle that   have been initiated in those legislation at the  national level being issued I will go a little   step further and again try now to bring this to my  specific personal experience so when we build this   digital identity the solution for directory  and beneficiary think about this distinction   here you have the U.N building an application any  solution for individuals that are no longer part   of the UN because now they retire they reside  in any 192 countries around the world they are   Citizen and therefore they are subject to  legislation that applies only to to their   country so the challenge here is how can we  design something that compliant with the first   and foremost with the U.N regulation but also  that sensitive to the potential other principal   requirement of other countries although we are  not subject to it so the solution and it's really   not an easy solution is not perfect solution  is to actually hold as less data as possible   within the UN system I I think that's an  important Point data used to be this thing   that corporations wanted to hoard right  it was big data and by making it costly   sometimes toxic to whole data you don't need with  gdpr pioneered then you got California's law as   well uh now they have to do the calculation right  the bottom line depends on how much data you hold   why you hold it do you really need that data to  have to get creative and why you need that data   so here in the United States I want  to I want to turn the United States   um just to finish with International Australian  hacking Bill very interesting bill uh allows   authorities to even get access to your account to  impersonate you in extreme cases maybe if you'll   tell us to log on and say I no longer believe in  this thing my father was dispersed I don't know   um but here in the United States okay we've got we  had things like sesta Foster which was a joke for   child protection um the some like the eff the  Electronic Frontier Foundation uh Free Speech   Advocates the United States is a very strong  protections for free speech I interviewed Noam   Chomsky who was like the biggest critic of the  United States many times and I got him to admit   not I got him he admits this freely that the NSA  says that even though he criticizes the United   States He Praises it for being the biggest most  free country in terms of free speech he says since   the 60s of any country so a few things things  are bad here go see how things are elsewhere   um but we had um in the name of the children  which I want to ask you you know Sister Foster   was about also uh shutting down uh some speech  or sites uh Craigslist I think was shut down uh   voluntarily because of this also earn it act which  was proposed l-a-e-d was another act uh basically   there's an IRS reporting requirement for 600 that  they proposed to pay for the infrastructure bill   as well they wanted the Brokers to move your money  like venmo to report anything over 600 this is not   to mention fat Co which is the international uh  guys uh unelected perhaps bureaucrats but they   tell every country that a thousand dollars is uh  the travel rule it says if they have to report   anything moving like that so uh so to Utah uh yes  I was going to say I was going to bring this up   the uh in Utah they have a media law for children  has just passed and uh basically the idea is look   the children shouldn't be accessing certain  sites and it's certainly true that um you know   Tick Tock and Instagram has had a deleterious  effect on right sure but uh teenage girls they   did studies like record levels of sadness uh  lots of you know the media machine applied to   the teenage brain okay and you're seeing these  perfect airbrushed AI models whatever and you're   thinking of yourself who am I so I understand  why Utah wants to do it how are they going to   do it how are they going to enforce any of this I  think this is a a great question to have and this   is a great room to have the the conversation  in because uh we're Innovative innovators so   um Utah wanted to lead the way in in child  protection um I think it's I think it's it's   common sense and it's openly accepted globally  that that children uh particularly when your   brain is in development your frontal lobe is not  fully developed we've all agreed that there are   certain addictive substances that we shouldn't  give to Children particularly while their brain   is developing because then it patterns them for  addiction things like tobacco and alcohol I mean   how many of you think that's very reasonable to  restrict children from alcohol and tobacco right   Okay so then we further that and we say we can  actually show using science that these social   media sites trigger the same chemical response  in the brain as tobacco and alcohol and cocaine   even right it triggers those same those same areas  and it causes an addictive reaction we also know   through a generation that it is doing irreparable  harm it's actually abusive I mean if there was a   child who was in a horribly mentally abusive  household then the government would come in   and take that child out of that abusive household  well on that same note these these social media   sites we now have a decade of data that shows  that this is incredibly emotionally abusive and   that it's affecting the brain development so Utah  we're leading and we've come forward and we've   said two there's two different bills there's  one for uh there's one for pornography sites   um PornHub has geocached Utah and you can  currently cannot access PornHub from the   state of Utah because they've geocached that you  have to verify your identity each time and then we   also have the social media law that sang anyone  under the age of 16 can't have a social media   account between 16 and 18 asked to be restricted  between 11 pm and 7 A.M so how are we going to   implement that we don't actually know yet we did  a delayed Implement implementation until January   of 2024 because we value privacy we're looking for  a way that we can do that can we get a third party   provider or does the Department of Commerce in  the state of Utah become that third party provider   that can come in and gather that we already have  that information we already know we already have   your birth certificate we're the one who made  your birth certificate right so can we come in   and can we just send a ping to these providers and  say we have verified that this person is who they   say they are and yes they are over the age of 18.  we haven't yet figured that out but that's really  

what we need to talk about our Department of  Commerce the legislators who passed the law those   who sponsored the law they're all willing to look  at a way how do we balance protection and privacy   and can we use the Department of Commerce as an  intermediary to do that but we need the underlying   technology I really think this is good that the  government blockchain Association exists because   the people that the legislators need to talk  to are the people who know about zero knowledge   proofs okay and we're open to that in Utah I mean  we're one of those crazy States that's open to   zero knowledge proof we want that but we just yeah  yes because thank you that conversation needs to   happen because over the at the pond in Britain  they think that you need to present literally   your passport to access every website because they  don't understand there's things like verifiable   credentials and there's things like zero knowledge  proofs where you could just say I'm over 18   without revealing who you are so that's something  I think needs to happen and I'm glad you're here   um okay so Frank before we jump on that real quick  right it's about better medication it's about   verification right so we just have a thing called  civic duty and they used to be taught in schools   and that would create we had called like societal  uh cohesion meaning that we honored our neighbors   and we treated them well and we give them a cup  of sugar if they asked as opposed to seeing them   as the other and would want to fight a bloody  Civil War let's say right just pulling it out   so yes there is a third option again which  is the community policing of those who claim   stewardship over this domain and talking about  blockchain and token curated economies talking   about building communities Greg right on shared  first principles that start at the local level   which is going to help solve a lot of extra money  on me because I do that and we're just gonna start   it but but then but then all the shared first  principal communities can then link up through   voluntary Association well in the 30 seconds that  we have left I wanted to uh ask also Frank uh what   if somebody could watch the Watchers like with  Healthcare uh somebody uses your data they have   to log why they use it how they used it in little  parts of it what if we can apply that in all kinds   of cases to solve rape on college campuses I'm  saying this is this is a what if we had encrypted   video everywhere but we only decrypted it with  reasons and subpoenas and stuff what do you think um well that's a that's an awesome question big  picture so so I think let's go back to the balance   in 20 seconds sorry so the the answer I think  is all things are doable via VIA technology I   mean it's evolving very rapidly and we didn't even  touch on all the generative Ai and all the Privacy   aspects of all that stuff it really goes back to  community standards what are Community standards   how do we enforce those Community standards what  what who do we protect in our society and how do   we protect them how do we enforce the laws  of the land all that kind of stuff has to be   foundational in the governance structure for the  for the technology to work effectively good or   bad there's a reason that all the Sci-Fi a lot of  sci-fi novels end up in dystopian versus utopian   environments and those are the things we have  to guard against when it comes to privacy and   data sharing I would all right wait a second we  have we've been trying to actually have greater   amounts of Engagement with the audience and  there was one question over here that we're   going to give you time for thank you hi this is  Jackie Cooper um just so you know I'm the GBA   talk show host you're all welcome to be come on it  um I do have a question my background's also law   and I love the blockchain but when we're talking  about families and we're talking about privacy   sometimes we forget about the fact that we have  adults and we have minors but we also sometimes   have accidents that happen we have death that  happens so when that happens we also have to think   about how do we give access to family members so  they can then access like with you know pension   and retirement that aspect or other things because  when we put in these privacy protections sometimes   our family members don't know how to access so we  need to think about some of the outliers so we can   make sure that everyone is equal you know in the  consumer protection side and also the Privacy side   so as everyone is developing this just think about  what are the consequences of the restrictions   as well as the access points that we need for  people that don't know yet so anyway thank you so the question is what what might be going on  that you know of in the community to provide   access to like in the UN let's say that  someone passes but they still are allowed   the retirement funds very very good question  indeed that was one of our challenging use cases   the way we addressed it is that we mirror  what we do on the non-digital track so we   have cases of minor that are eligible to receive  the benefit of their parents that passed away so   we have a procedure for legal guardian so we  design the application to be issue using the   biometric profile of the legal guardian and not  the minor that was the first step the second step   is of course we received almost immediately  when we announced the intention to deploy the   application from certain part of our client  our user base the request to always keep an   option for the manual process not too necessarily  replace and substitute but just complement the   process and therefore we're keeping a parallel  process that is based on the manual process and   not necessary on the digital one perfect thank  you very much thank you panel that was great

2023-06-16

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