Transhumanism Life Extension and Future Technologies CyborgNest Podcast 1 Natasha Vita-More

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welcome to the CyborgNest podcast a series of discussions that  explore human enhancement   innovative technologies and the impacts that  they have on humanity the earth and our future on today's podcast we speak to Natasha Vita  More about the transformation of the human   and her personal experience of illness which  inspired her to research theories and practices   which could improve the human condition  otherwise known as transhumanism   hello everybody i'm Liviu Babitz is the co-founder  of CyborgNest. at CyborgNest we create new   senses for humans to be able to experience  the reality in an enhanced way and this   is our first podcast today and we have the  pleasure of speaking with Natasha Vita More   and for those that don't know who natasha is if  there is anyone like that so dr Natasha Vita More   is the founder of humanity plus lab and the  executive director of humanity plus she is   a futurist leader in a wide range of experiences  across the fields of science design and technology   she focuses on the ethical use of technology and  evidence-based science for addressing the topics   of transhumanisms such as healthy life extension  ai and human enhancements in 1983 natasha wrote   a transhumanist manifesto which discussed the  possibility of overcoming disease and extending   lifespan as an innovator she designed the first  future body prototype introducing the metabrain   she appears in more than 2000 televised  documentaries published in numerous articles   and books natasha welcome to our first pod  podcast this is so exciting to have you with us   thank you and congratulations for your lift off  yes yes it's exciting listen so we we you know   we are a company and and one of the things that  we are trying to break is the barrier between the   company and the people out there right because you  go and buy products from from companies and there   is a name but you don't know the people you never  hear them talking there is no like a conversation   so we try to break that barrier into you know i  we always say we are not called CyborgNest for   nothing but this whole idea of being part of a  nest is is really important for us so thank you   for joining and being our first guest is uh it's  an honor and a pleasure and i want to start with   a simple question uh for for everybody you know  people walk out and about have a normal life and   i don't know go to a job go to the supermarket  and all that and then they come home and they see   an article and they see transhumanism and they are  like what the hell are these guys talking about so   can you give us like in in few seconds for those  that don't know what that is what is transhumanism   as far as you see it thank you for asking this  question because it is an important question   in its simplest form transhumanism is a science  and a philosophy that specifically refers to   transformation all life forms transform over the  millennia and this transformation can be traced   back through chemistry through physics through  archaeology and evolutionary biology transhumanism   is within the era where biological science has  uncovered genetics and unraveled hereditary   in our dna and also uh developed computer  technology which has brought about augmented   intelligence made us smarter and then really  increased our memory by leaps and bounds   as a philosophy transhumanism questions existence  knowledge and values and this is normal for   a philosophy that's what philosophies  do have a worldview it takes a look at   what hinders the well-being of people or humanity  and this pertains largely to the human condition   so then the question is what is the  human condition and what are the problems   there are many benefits to the human condition  being here with you is a extraordinary benefit   using this vehicle this platform and looking at  the digitality around us in communication and   transportation but there are problems disease  and aging overcoming that mental and cognitive   attitudes that cause prejudices and hatreds  and even wars and socioeconomic systems that   interfere with the uh the distribution of  products and processes through channels of   delivery as well as creating divides so bottom  line understanding these problems that we face   is what transhumanism does as a worldview  and it is proactive in looking at ways to   solve some of these problems and it's it's not an  easy task to be sure many people over time have   tried to solve these problems but we must continue  to and that's what transhumanists focus on looking   at aging disease what cures can there be how to  extend the human lifespan create well-being for   all take a look at the ecology the environment  we live in so that it is a synergistic healthy   environment for all life forms and to move away  from the polarization of uh knowledge ideas and   distribution of knowledge you wanted to know how  i became involved in this and it's you know each   person has their own short story but i just  wanted to answer your first question for you   so if you want to know how i became involved  i'll answer that afterwards or at a later time   no it's uh uh we can actually both of us share  the experience because because uh for me as as uh   most of the things in my life it was an  eclectic kind of journey that led me into it   so we can we can touch about it in a second i  just want to summarize the first answer because   a lot of people you know they watch movies they  see stuff they read articles and you know the   media is there to sell and to create to shock  right and to into whatever so they managed to   create that that image that basically what people  like yourself or ourselves or other people that   are in the field basically what we want is to  turn people into the terminator and and you laugh   exactly and that's my that's my my reaction as  well but i just want to to kind of put it clearly   on the table and to hear your opinion about people  that make that connection between what you've just   said and the terminator which is their direct link  to what we do you know what's interesting about   language and communication it could be  easily obfuscated and terms used in ways that   aren't what they really meant in the first place  and that isn't to disrespect the evolution of   ideas which is what we need to grow but words have  meanings for example your product is cyborg nest   and cyborg was coined by manfred klein and nathan  klein to mean an appendage to the biological body   for space exploration but that term got used  differently in science fiction where it became   something that was associated with a dystopian  or dystopic villain like a terminator or many   others darth vader for example so there's a  tremendous amount of characters in science fiction   that represent a cyborg in a negative sense  rather than looking at cyborg as part of human   enhancement or augmentation another area is  within postmodernist studies and academics   the rhetoric of cyborg turned it into a feminist  type of political polarization and that is not   what cyborg really is in fact cyborg is an  appendage to the body and it's seen various   ways well i have to say the same for transhuman  the term transhuman is a human in transition of   transformation in looking at our genetics our  dna unraveling it identifying mistakes in genes   and what causes disease looking at our cognitive  properties and also the psychology what causes   humans to have bias and hatred and what causes us  to even engage in war what causes us to be okay   that we have a bed and food and water and  other people on the same planet that we coexist   do not have a bed or food and water so these  normalcies that have been ingrained in us   um i don't want to say the haves or the have-nots  but just this indifference um that seemingly   is around us is not really true i think people  truly more truly care about each other and want to   live in a healthy environment but it doesn't get  the press as you said there's a lot of hyperbole   in the media which takes ideas and splashes them  out there through filters that misconstrues and   obfuscates ideas and turns them into a fear tactic  because that's largely they might they need to   sell don't they that that's the sad reality that  we that we have to fight i think you said a very   nice and simple question that i would like the  listeners to remember and maybe to share forward   that a transhumanist is a human in a state of  transition right so i think that is a very simple   and and you know kind of distilled way of of  understanding things and obviously from that point   onwards things can be taken into a bad transition  or things can be taken into a positive transition   and i think that that's what people like yourself  and our company and other people on this planet   are trying to do is to and it it leads me actually  to to to your question about how did we get into   transhumanism but you go first and then i'll tell  you a story i'll be short and sweet on this uh oh   because i'm gonna i'm writing a narrative for  it to be a performance piece because you know   everyone's stories are so interesting and i think  that ted talks really brought storytelling to the   forefront over the past couple of decades but my  story on in how i got involved is i was working   outside the country i was living in japan i  became very ill and when i came back to the   united states i thought about why i became ill  and um i survived and that was quite phenomenal   in the first place but in the second place i  thought what am i going to do with the fact that   i overcame the the illness that i had and actually  survived it and i'm alive now and what can i do   with my life and it was a turning point for me  from the fine arts of the visuals making films   and videos and performing a lot to where i thought  wait a minute there's something not right here   something needs to change i was very um impressed  by the leaders in videography and virtual reality   and uh using technology to create all sorts of  immersive environments which was really starting   out in the late 1970s and carried on through the  80s and i thought about my body i thought about   the human condition i thought about people dying  and when i would see people with injuries and that   didn't have any resolve or you know dying from  diseases um it affected me so that was the core   reason why i got involved in transhumanism because  i picked up a magazine while living in los angeles   in 1981 and on the cover of a magazine was a  picture of a man named fm fandiari and he was   known as the world's leading futurist and mr  immortality although he didn't like the term   and i thought wow who is this person and i met  with him and we talked about the future and   that really spurred me forward so his influence  and also buck mr fuller because of my interest   in ecology and the environment and looking at  distribution channels through socio-political   economic systems was a major influence on me as  well as susan son tag film critic and photographer   and camille paglia a very robust thinker so  that was the turning point for me where i then   devoted my my next years in any production that i  did on the future looking at solutions to problems   that's that's exciting it's actually a bit reminds  uh of my story because i was um before cyborg nest   i was involved into something very different but  in many ways similar and i was uh the ceo of this   uh very edgy human rights organization and my  role was to identify train and run undercover   networks of people that are using technology to  document human rights violations in places where   no one else has access to so again we live in this  on this planet where same as some of us have a bed   and some of us have a food and some of us don't  so the same happens with with information a lot   of us you know we know a lot of stuff and we live  in places where information is relatively free   and we have access to it but there are still  places in the world where there are people or   governments that are making sure that there is  absolutely zero information coming out of there   with all the technology that we have today on  the planet and it's still happening so we made   sure that we break those barriers and the but the  way that we did that was by basically designing   undercover equipment that those people  and networks were using in these places   and literally like in the olden days i can't get  into into too many details of how the operations   work but but the idea was to extract those  uh information out of those places and then   you and many other places many other people on  the planet saw it on the news or in courts or   in other places and it was uh it appeared  as amateur footage or something like that   and at some stage i i've i've left that  because of some personal uh reasons uh and then   by mistake i met uh neil harbisson uh who is  a friend of a friend and i heard that they are   going for lunch so i said hey you have a friend  with an antenna on your skull i'm coming as well   you know just from the simplest most shallow  way of looking at it and i i can i can admit   that during the lunch my my thoughts were still  shallow and i was i was focused on the antenna   connected to his head but then i went home  and it kept nudging me and nudging me and   nudging me until a coin dropped and that  changed everything and that coin was that   basically everything that we ever created  thought or felt started from a sensory input   and if we have more senses and there is so  much more to sense around us that we can't   sense with the senses that we have so then we  will live a richer life we can start creating   solutions to problems from places that we  didn't even think before that that can happen so   that was a moment for me that that was okay that's  no going back moment and that's how my my journey   started into into this whole into this whole uh i  didn't even know what true transhumanism is or or   posthumanism and all these things which leads  me to the to the second question which i think   i think that not only transhumanism but there  are so many terms running out there so there   is transhumanism post-humanism cyborg punk solar  punk this way that way how do you how do you map   all these and kind of where do you see everything  going and what will stop and what could continue   that's really a great question  because it can be so confusing   all right so simply put transhumanism is a world  view that is practical it's not only a engulfed   in science and and philosophy and of course  technology but it's also practice based you can   practice transhumanism and transhumanism is here  now because it's about ways we can innovate invent   discover and resolve issues or problems  that humanity faces and that is inclusive   of the environments in which we live so that's  something doable today post-humanism is a far   future uh posthumanism is about the post-human  and that is um a supposition to be sure it's a   supposition about the evolution of the human  species becoming something other than human   so for example we're homo sapiens sapiens where  mammals were animals were part of the the homo   directive as far as speciation and so we're  human trans-human means transition of human from   biology and exclusive dependency on biology and  the aging process as a norm or given or natural to   mitigating that or intervening with disease  and aging and some of these psychological   maybe mental illness emotional instability brain  impairment alzheimer's als dementia different   types of cognitive problems that many of us face  and working with that to improve and that means to   be better than well to be as healthy as possible  for as long as possible within that it offers an   option for people to consider the advocates  of radical life extension or super longevity   meaning living well beyond our shelf life and  the human species shelf life is approximately 120   to 123.5 years and no one has ever lived beyond  that and usually we start um deteriorating in   you know after puberty slowly but surely but  definitely after menopause and andropause in men   and later our you know we slow down and we  have senescence and our cognitive properties   slow down our muscles our tendons are you know all  break down and slow down to where we're in our 80s   and 90s and hundreds and often most people are  quite weak well we want to change that so people   live as long as possible as healthy as possible  and if people don't want to live longer that's   their choice but if they do we want to offer  options for that and those options are to remain   biological through certain genetic engineering  and maybe some nanomedicine and manipulations   with biology and the aging process or the  senescence of cells or maybe become more   augmented or enhanced and prosthetic parts and  coexist in multiple substrates so that's all   transhumanism it's here today it's doable but it's  also looking at the future where post-humanism   would be a post-human not a human and i think  that's the the main thing that you can have   supposition or conjecture or a vision about a  what a post-human future could be like but it   is not attainable so we can't really prescribe  it or describe it we can only be visionary   about it and offer possible futures whereas  transhumanism as i said is something here today   now the the cyborg or the different cyborg  groups or the hackers the grinders the um   any of those groups are they don't have to be  transhumanists to manipulate their bodies and um   you know through piercing or augments or you know  putting a chip in their their finger or you know   doing any type of uh augmentation that's their  thing and you can be a cyborg without being a   transhumanist the core difference is transhumanism  is expressly looking at evidence-based science   and ethical use of technology to improve the  human condition so it's not just about the body   it's not just about the mind it is about  the circumstances in which we live and that   is a separation through the  anthropocentric view of maybe   some of these groups or subgroups and the core  of the philosophy and science of transhumanism   i love it i think it's such a it's such a a simple  and genuine from the heart way of putting it   because you know i'm i'm looking at you and i'm  not only listening but i'm i'm absorbing what   you're what you're you're you know what you're  expressing and i can see that there is a true care   about what is happening and that's the place  where we where we come from as well and i think   that that is so important to pass onwards and for  people to understand that we are not here just to   play with our bodies or to see what we can stick  into it or put on top of it or to experiment to   do whatever but we have we have a mission that has  values i mean i think of the word values is a word   to throw here and it's not just for the sake  of curiosity and playing although curiosity   led us into into those into those places yeah  exactly what's that i i i'm gonna drop because   you spoke about lifespan and and uh and uh the  time that we are supposed to be on the shelf   our shelf life as humans and there is a one of our  people from the community a young person called   dodo and she wanted uh to ask you if you're afraid  of death oh no not really uh not any more than the   next person i would think i probably don't want  to have a painful death i don't i think you know   drowning is supposed to be the easiest death but  i i get claustrophobia so i would want that uh   probably the the easiest death would be not to  know what's coming you know in your sleep or   something but absolutely not afraid of death uh  i don't like death i don't welcome death and i   find death a hindrance on my life to be sure but  it's not about fear uh for goodness sakes uh you   know i think about some of the the uh you know  all of us have a history of disease and injury   i remember i went through a car windshield head  first i could have died from that but i didn't but   i still driving cars um you know as i said in  the beginning the reason why i got interested   in the vulnerability of the body was from my  first-hand experience uh being very very ill and   literally hemorrhaging to death and someone  found me and um saved my life and fortunately   that person spoke english because i was in japan  and uh the doctor said you know doctor came and   translated through my translator that i may  not live so i just said okay and i remember at   that moment i had no fear at all i in fact it was  interesting i had a sense of peace and even though   i was semi-conscious i was more concerned about  getting blood on the people around me and that   they were okay and i was willing to let go so it  has nothing to do with the fear of death but thank   you for asking that question because i think it  is a very important question to ask yeah i think   you know um dodo is a very young person and and  i think that's you know for for young people or   younger people um it's a question that obviously  they they debate themselves with with all the time   and how long we gonna live and how is that going  to be and when am i going to die and speaking   about life extension is such a it's such a hot  topic in the world today and you and and you and   and uh and your husband and max are at the core of  of of uh of working on it um what can you tell us   from behind the scenes or or something that what  should we expect that is going to happen oh this   is such a great question and it's such a broad  question so i'll try to concretize this for you   as best i can but we can follow up uh with this if  i if i leave any gaps in my thinking um let's see   bottom line we as humans have been around or our  species as homo sapiens sapiens as we've evolved   i've been around for a hundred thousand years and  during this time there have been um an array of   of achievements that we've gone through to help  sustain our lives of our flight or flight is   still located in our brain stem and that impulse  uh drives us to do whatever it takes at the last   moment to help save someone's life or our own  lives so when taking a look at longevity it makes   sense that now that we have certain technologies  that can unravel our dna and take a look at our   genetic makeup and even into the genes to the  proteins proteinomics and to see the functionality   of what's going on and where there's some coding  mistakes and using gene therapies like crispr to   let's say fix them or to remove the the faulty  genes in and put in copies of of healthy genes or   functioning genes this is all very important so  the longevity field is still at its infancy it's   still in an embryonic stage i think the biggest  uh accomplishment is that humans by and large are fully aware those of us in the industry or in  the sciences and technologies that includes ethics   etc are aware that we can manipulate our dna our  genetic makeup and this is a big thing because   up until uh this uh the late let's say the mid  to late um 19 20th century and to into this 21st   century no one thought we could of course  there were dreams the taoist had the pill   of immortality and jean funo looked at what causes  disease and aging and how to stop it and of course   fedorov nikolai fedorov was one of pioneer in  russia looking at how to get over this this   disease of death and and how to resurrect people  from having died but we've done that in the past   and not too long ago even a hundred years ago if  someone's heart stopped they were considered dead   but today we have fibrillators that we can put  on someone and recharge their heart and that's   amazing and that's a very simple one that's done  on a daily basis probably hundreds of thousands of   times a day for people who have heart attacks  and or strokes so we can regenerate the heart   reignite the heart through electrical currents and  this is a marker it's a major marker for humanity   that we can bring back someone from the dead  with that said that's just one example we have um   let's see 25 of the variations of our dna um is  is prone to disease and the rest of it is healthy   but we need to find that 25 and there's research  being done in the in the enzyme telomerase which   is the end of telomeres which is shortening is  considered or thought to cause aging there's also   the senescence of cells that the daughter cells  can only duplicate so many times before you start   getting wrinkles or gray hair or weakness in your  joints and arthritis um we've talked about crispr   gene editing gene therapies um and then there's  the um also something we coexist with another   agency it doesn't have agency per se like um  senescence or sapiens but another uh form which   is mitochondria and mitochondria is in almost  every cell of our body and it produces about   90 percent of our energy and that mitochondria is  an organelle which is a different type of of life   form if you want to say it's alive but we need to  work with that so we're looking at what is causing   mitochondria to be healthy or not healthy could  this affect our energy levels which affects our   whole entire system and our ability to function  so the um the vision of life extension is largely   looking at our dna and genetic makeup and some  of the mistakes in coding of the dna and how to   better resolve that or mitigate it another area  that's very important is to take a look at what's   going on in the environment how healthy is the  environment that we live in and we're finding that   there's certain pollutants and and additives in  our food preservatives etc that can cause disease   but this is really not big enough so what  is being worked on and behind the scenes   and i think is most important is a field called  nanomedicine and it stems from nanotechnology and   in nanomedicine it would be tiny tiny microscopic  maybe carbon microscopic computers that are   programmed to go in the body much like you put in  a vaccine in the body or take a pill in the body   and it would be programmed to go to an  area of the body where there's a breakdown   of cellular structure within the organs causing  disease and repair it so in the future the idea   is that the body would be regenerative and  reinvigorated on a moment-to-moment basis   so that while we have this biological system which  is constantly functioning through our central   nervous system to our peripheral nervous system  and sending messages up and down our spinal cord   to our brain we would also have invited another  entity or agency which would be a tiny system   that would go in our body and work with our  chromosomes and our proteins and our enzymes and   all the different worker bees in our body to help  them keep the body healthy and safe but that's one   area that's within biology longevity is looking  at not just having a biological body but altering   the biological body which enters your field of  looking at augments and attachments cyborgs and   increasing abilities of the body especially  in the senses and also looking at how ai will   affect and alter and improve our cognitive  abilities especially people with dementia   and a slowness in cognitive well repairing that  slowness or the synapses of the neurological   connections in the brain but also backing  up up the brain the mind and and backing up   memories really important for us and to um build  um substitute or secondary or tertiary bodies like   i designed which you mentioned earlier in this  discussion which would be if this body totally   collapses and is no longer functional then  we would use uh what i call the you know the   um whole body prosthetic that could we could have  an alternative body so those are just some of the   basics but i think when you mentioned max moore  and my work which is separate indeed but we're   both chronicist and the field of crowd biology  is really advancing organs are being frozen we   know that it's it's ethical and has an incredible  efficacy because of the infertility field eggs   are frozen sperm is frozen embryos are frozen in  fact the first embryo baby in 1972 it was a test   tube baby um was injected into a woman and the  woman gave birth so we're looking at a history   of infertility being at the forefront of longevity  and manipulating or mitigating or intervening with   some of the problems of biology but longevity  um is sometimes we may wish and hope to have all   these new technologies and advances but something  happens that's unexpected walk outside get hit   by something driving a car gets smashed into  something uh doing our best and something happens   and this is unavoidable we cannot predict some  of these unattended consequences so the field of   crowd biology is very important in its subfield  of cryonics or cryogenics and cryonics is the   field that is looking at and doing uh the future  of humanity and picking up where today's medicine   leaves off so rather than a doctor telling you  i'm sorry there's no more i can do we've done   everything possible we cannot save your life or  save your child's life or your parents life and   that's where chronics comes in because chronics  can take the person who is told they're terminal   has no alternative but to die and places them in  uh cryonics which is a vitrified state so you're   just preserved everything stops you're not alive  you're not dead well you're pronounced dead but   you're just you exist until the future technology  and science could uh bring you back so that's at   the cusp and actually being done now there's many  hundreds of people in chronics today and uh they   research on it the advances in it will only get  better and better to me it's so exciting i mean um   i don't want to get into into max's workers  because that's another conversation but it's   it's absolutely it's absolutely fascinating  um oh my god we are running out of time soon   there is one question that people always ask  and um and i understand why people always ask   and this time it came from again a friend of ours  called haridontos he's an artist that by the way   i recommend looking at some of his stuff um and  and he says how can we make sure that we stop the   divide between those that they have and those  that don't have i know i know a bit what's my   answer to that but i would love to to hear part  of yours and then i can cheap in my part you know   this divide is age old it's historical there has  always been a divide between those who have and   those who have not and that's a darn shame i mean  bottom line that's not what we would all hope for   but it is the way it is is that the way it should  be in the future no should we do everything to   stop it yes indeed but don't ask me i didn't  cause it and transhumanism didn't cause it   take a look at the history of politics the history  of economics the history of social organizations   and societies and take a look back at the history  of europe and even into africa in greece egypt   egypt had slaves egyptians had people that weren't  even considered to be humans waiting on them that   were treated like slaves even in the the roman  empires going back to even the norwegians and the   danish and looking at the nordsmen and the uh  early vikings the vikings i mean tortured people   and there were the wealthy or the royalty and  then there were the slaves so this issue is not   something that's 21st century even 20th century  it dates back to the earliest times and mind you   we could probably ask an archaeologist to look at  the bone structure or the environment and see if   anyone if there was a hierarchy there and we could  probably get a somewhat definitive answer but   claiming that it's historical and it's been  around is not the answer it's just a realization   and we must have a strong understanding of history  in order to learn from our past and become better   ancestors for the future and i give that credit  to luke robert mason who brought it up recently   at one of our transhumanist studies groups  and i think that that legacy of what we leave   as a species as a culture as a society is really  important and within that what we want to do   is uplift people and i think transhumanism is  the only world view that ardently looks at that   not just from the use of ethical based technology  and evidence-based science but that's a beginning   because if we have ethical technology that  means everyone can have it it's not owned by any   big haunch group that is telling us what  to do or telling or taking our material our   identities and distributing as they want so we  say no to that it's not ethical and number two   evidence-based science so that people can't  come along and sell snake oil to us under the   guise of longevity or genetic engineering or  any type of of measure and if we develop that   knowledge to be better more sober thinkers we  can better understand what causes people not   to have what they need and education is probably  the most obvious and clear-headed answer to that   totally i think we it's it's a it's fascinating  because i love your answer because that's my   answer usually i always say listen we are creators  we are people that come and wake up in the morning   and try to create a better humanity a better  earth but we are we are visionaries we are   people that literally dedicate their lives or  or doings into doing that we are not the people   to come and be asked about it because i mean  there are governments there that they they   they produce tax laws and then they allow  some people not to pay taxes and those people   are usually the rich people so it's the whole  system that all of us need to change it's not   it's not time no one should not have to pay taxes  if everyone paid a percentage then even if even   if you're poor you still contribute and then you  have uh you you can and contributing is one of the   biggest builders of self-esteem as long as you  know that you're part of of the group part of   the team a player in it then you can have a level  of pride and self-ownership so don't just expect   the rich people to pay they should pay  their fair share as well but everyone   needs to contribute and uh so i think if  everyone contributes at the level they can   in some way if they don't have money then a  little time perhaps or or help someone else   do something i think we need to see more of  that than people sitting on a sofa waiting   for the governments to pay their rent and pay  their education and pay everything for them   yeah it's a it's kind of a two to two sides of  the coin isn't it it's always it's always like   that and i think you know people need to wake up  in the morning and to say what did i do yeah today   to make it a a better place you know  and and if you have an answer so then   so then you probably your day was not was not  wasted i mean uh you there's another thing there   too and i love the way that you said that another  thing there too is it's so important to accept the   differences between us if you're if you're have  a different religious view or spiritual view or   a different moral code that sure that's your  beliefs you know no one should be dictating to   someone else what they should believe or or a need  to believe the bottom line is if we're kind to   each other and allow each other to be who we are  as individuals people will have that that level of   confidence that will help them become involved and  then that that divide between the haves and the   have-nots will not be so important because people  will be their unique selves just because someone   seems to have a lot doesn't mean they have a lot  they may have a boat but maybe they have multiple   sclerosis or brain tumor they may be a ceo of  a corporation but maybe their child is dying   you never know what's going on in someone else's  lives so i think if we live in communities and   i've lived in communities that are very poor with  i live with the navajo indians where i slept on a   hut and just ate uh i think it was dried eggs no  mirrors no toothbrush nothing but we tried to keep   our environment clean and healthy so it's that  dignity of of personhood which doesn't matter how   much money you have it's how kind you can be and  generous with what you do have to share knowledge   and that's something we can all do so i think the  greatest have is knowledge and the greatest have   not is ignorance so let's spread our knowledge  to help those and learn but not push them not   persuade them but to encourage and support them  at whatever level or stage they are in their own   growth and development this isn't to say that  there aren't people starving and i already   mentioned this early on we need better channels  of distribution but who's in charge of that natasha it's such a pleasure talking to you and i  think we could we could continue like that forever   and i didn't get even to half of the list of the  things that i wanted to talk to you about so we'll   probably have to do it again part two but but  i think that was a very first of all optimistic   and second loving way of of of finishing the  conversation in a way speaking about you know   how much we care about each other because you  know we started from transhumanism and robocop and   whatever and all that but there is that essence of  us being humans or being a creature or being a dog   or being whatever that you know we have we have  feelings and we look around and we use our senses   which is what we deal with to perceive our reality  and sometimes you know i had a great art teacher   when i was young and she told me don't just look  observe so when you walk on the street you know   things go past you all the time if it's trees  or people or buildings or whatever and you know   usually people just walk and they they use their  eyes not to bump into stuff but but how about you   actually observe what you are what you are seeing  in front of you and what is what is happening and   and that can lead you to that place where you  can see that person that needs help you it can   it can lead to a great idea that you're gonna  have and it's gonna change the world you know   so yeah let's continue dreaming doing being  positive and loving and caring to each other and   and i think in this way not only that we are not  creating robocop but we are probably creating a   much better positive and nice environment to live  in a more humane humanity yes i love it thank you   so much it's been such a pleasure and looking  forward to have you next time thank you you

2021-09-02

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