Art Investment: Blockchain Technology

david otto here yeah um well we're working on a number of things professional sports franchises for example and tokenizing ownership interest in them we approached the nba with this concept about a year a little over a year ago pre-covet and their response was interestingly they view the teams as their picassos and we said well there's no problem with tokenizing a picasso and they said how does that happen anyway what we're looking at in general is identifying asset classes that have heretofore been unavailable to large sectors of the public to the investing world frankly and i've got an answer for the woman who asked about museums losing access it's called museum dowse and i can talk to you a little bit more about that if you like but the the point is that there's a there's technology available now joe knows a lot about it there are processes available now and what we're looking at is how do we identify access and then uh execute against an effort to tokenize uh asset classes art being one of them that have been unavailable to large sacrament segments of society we do not believe that the market should be set by the top 10 collectors in the world or by the auction houses frankly we are looking to decentralize and democratize access yeah i can add that we in luck later we always had the objective to open the art market to a larger public and we know that there are barriers uh so one and for probably the most important is the lack of transparency and then there is also the lack of liquidity of this asset class so blockchain is a perfect tool because it's able to bring transparency to help to create trust and this is for sure one important tool if we want to include more people and then the second aspect of blockchain is the tokenization because tokenization is a extremely important to fractionalize an asset and so you can invest in a picasso if also if you don't have the the the money and the expertise to do that so i strongly believe that blockchain is the perfect tool to help the art market to reach a different target and and i i would say uh i primarily see and as important uh see blockchain as a a behavior technology it isn't it isn't what a lot of the press pulls out or if you uh listen to uh people on crypto twitter uh that it's uh you know all about financing and all about um you know uh speculation um it is and it's it's uh demonstratable even uh with with uh bitcoin itself that it's the largest compute concern on earth without a leader just with some open source software um and we often liken it to encapsulating these very important concepts into software software is very powerful by itself right the world has kind of come to see that with automation in every industry in the past 20 30 years and blockchain basically frees software from the necessity to have leadership for that software you can put a piece of software out there that becomes its own thing and what that means you know because you you have the transparency you have the ability to actually provide a measurable proof and scarcity therefore market principles and if you look and this would be a you know something if you were interested in and what what you could look at for the effect it could have in the arts world is what happened in 2017 2018 in the pure blockchain world where these were just tons of projects that came out all wanting to do various things of course just like startups most of them fail but the interesting thing about it is in my opinion it was the first time in in much of human history that the entire earth anybody anybody anywhere you could you could be uh in the middle of nowhere uh the son of a cab driver and you could uh take part you didn't have to be in this town you didn't have to be golf buddies with uh you know certain you know 30 or 40 people here in town to actually take part and uh it exploded right and most of the financial markets saw it as a bubble but um it was pretty obviously just the fact that it was the first time that uh these people could actually take part and if you if you plug that into art it's you know it would be explosive because you know who in the world wouldn't want a piece of half of these uh things that we've seen on the screen right i mean of course exactly accessibility is is the consequence of the barriers that we spoke before so i think it might be great for the audience if we just unpack some of the concepts that people have been talking about so we started with the dows which are the decentralized autonomous organizations and which you can think of as computer code but computer code that helps reduce the cost of intermediation and so it's allowing and maybe you can go through your example for a museum and speak to like what maybe some of the problems that it's helping to solve yeah okay so this is the berkeley center for law and business so there are some lawyers here probably law students anyway so let's talk a little bit about the legal issues and the legal issues are somewhat opaque from a regulatory standpoint there's this whole notion of a token being essentially one of three things this digital representation of value it's either security so you have to have it registered or it needs to be exempt from registration in order to sell it so a security like a stock in apple that's a security this is the regulatory sort of analysis or it's a currency like a btc or bitcoin so it trades it transacts for value or it's a utility you have some ability to use it to do something or access something those are sort of the three large verticals that your tokens need to participate in or be evaluated as from a legal standpoint in a regulatory standpoint so here's the interesting thing about a dow decentralized autonomous organizations are essentially governance mechanisms think of a bunch of people get together online and decide they want to do something let's say they want to aggregate a million bucks for the sf moma to go buy new emerging female artists it's completely doable and it's a mechanism to enable uh the the institutions as we said earlier that have don't have the wherewithal don't have the the the funds but have expertise have appreciation have capability to access the market and you can do that with resources and with expertise at early stage so the uh the female artists that were selling for 30 that went up to half a million if you have a museum down that's in at the early stage guess what everyone who's participating that down now participates in the upside of that asset the sale of that asset or if you bought it at 500 and five years from now it's at five million you're still participating in the asset class the the interesting thing if you break it down sort of simplistically at least i do because i'm not the tech guy the joe is but from a legal standpoint the um the internet the internet brought us the ability to freely uh push around information immediately uh the blockchain sort of layer one layer two sits on top of the and it brings us the ability to in a transparent and cryptographically secure way push around value and that value gets represented in any number of things that we're talking about value in art or fractional representations of art yes and not only for the the mass this is important also for the financial institutions because a recent report of blackrock said that almost 98 percent of family offices and funds don't invest in art even if art is a very solid asset class and we saw it in the last 30 years so i understand that is not so easy because you have to understand first which artist to buy and then which artwork to buy from who and then where i have to store it and then when i have to sell it in which channel so of course for a family office or for a financial institution is not something easy easy but if the financial institution could invest in an index of picasso that is related to let's say one percent of 100 different picasso that's totally different and so that asset class become accessible also for financial institution and we are speaking about organization but our company is focused on finance as well because we just received the out first authorization in switzerland to be a security token exchange in peer-to-peer and we decided to exploit this legal uh financial and technology infrastructure not only for art related asset but also for other type of asset and financial asset so yes totally agree with with david it will be a democratization but it will be also an important tool for the financial sector right and we've and we we've even spoken a lot about the the fact that you'll help the museums that they they can actually use this as a way to to finance other things and then you have wisdom of the crowd i mean the fact that if you spread that you're going to get a lot more valuable signals and you can even measure those signals that the signals themselves can have your reputation so if you find somebody who's out there that ends up being the the oracle for you know which piece to buy or which uh you know which pieces to buy that it's a very powerful thing so so maybe can you expand on that on how fractionalization and how it's creating liquidity in the market and sort of the two different things which i just want to make sure everybody's separate on thinking about which is you know an art that has a true representation that has property rights that we're then porting into the blockchain versus an actual nft which may be a piece of digital art and sort of some of that nuance just for the audience thank you maybe i can start so there are three type of nfts one and if the nft that we worked on is a token that assign a specific right to a specific subject and we thought about that because of the possession right we wanted to give the procession right to the gallery to the museum and so if we take a tokenization and so we have 100 tokens only one has the possession right this is nft because it's not fungible with the others then we have the second type of nft which is the digital representation at least for art we have three types the digital representation of an existing artwork the only nft the only token that represents the the physical artwork and then we have the most famous nft which are digital art and so it's just a new tool because the artist used the marble paper canvas video installation and now the art the artist is using also also this tool in order to create art yeah i mean uh most most of uh you know what you see in the nft world is it's just very early so there's there's a lot there that's kind of uh i don't know i mean the the nft itself in almost all cases doesn't actually hold the piece of art it's usually something and you know so there's there's a lot of uh there are a lot of religious wars fought over that stuff right now but um but but there are ways to do it and you know we've even uh we have even worked on projects where the the actual how do i say this the actual uh nft itself which you know it's it's uh just an arrangement of a bunch of bytes on a blockchain um but that it not only can represent the ownership but it can actually have uh generative value uh into the not always a piece of art but into something right so there's a there's a lot there with nfts and a lot of times people especially in the traditional world and this is a huge barrier you know how do you map something that is on the wall to this uh this digital and that's the providence how do i know if i buy uh 100 of that piece that that piece is really there and we have ways to tie again using blockchain to tie things that would improve how do i say this data quality that if you have someone asserting this is the original piece i've analyzed this it's not damaged i've seen you know the insurance documents whatever else that they would hold um the fact that those can all be unchained historically and ideally if it's a new piece of art whether it's uh physical or digital that you would actually have the development of the piece of art so that right now when the piece of art is not worth anything it's an unknown artist but in 10 20 years that providence should if you have a measurable proof value to the providence it it will make the va the the piece of art worth more because there will be less you know cognitive dissonance you know and then you also have the ability on any of those data elements whether it's the providence or whether it's a trade that what becomes part of providence that you can actually tie bounties so you can have what are essentially prediction markets on every single event tied to that piece of art so that you know that i've have experts that have not only weighed in with reputation but i have people who have put millions of dollars behind this data and i can therefore assume that no one's called him out yet to claim that million dollar bounty so it's more likely the longer that bounty lasts that that those are true assertions so there's some really neat stuff you can apply to kind of mix that virtual and the real world so yeah on the providence side blockchain there's there's no comparison in terms of the ability to to track it uh but essentially just so we're clear and everyone's tracking this there's the physical piece of art that sits on the wall of a museum that gets fractionalized at some level 10 20 there's a value let's say it's worth 100 million museum wants to raise 10 million you sell 10 10 of that and you fractionalize that through the creation and issuance of tokens that's the physical art in the digital world for purposes of creating uh value and realizing value and and establishing access to that asset in that asset class and then there's digital art it's the stuff that most uh discussion around nfts is is all about right now and those are very different mechanisms and they're very different transaction types but ultimately it's the same technology it's a blockchain technology it's a cryptographically secure transparent and provable technology the provenance issue is a very s specific and significant issue in this asset class but it's resolvable as well and blockchain is not nft is not bitcoin is the technology that could help a market in many ways so i think also adding on to that because it seems like you've been discussing bringing different pieces between the physical world and a virtual world what do you see about communities being built so do you foresee that you know it's going to be displayed in a museum and that now the people who own fractional shares they'll be sort of social organizations they'll be sort of stuff built that now you're going to have much greater sort of demand and participation in markets that may perhaps have been you know only sub to very big collectors are we going down to like accredited investor rules or do we really think it's going down to sort of even lower levels too it could go lower absolutely you can raise under a reg a reg a plus 20 to 75 million um dollars and and solicit non-accredited investors there's establishment in terms of your um ability to take the risk um and nobody's suggesting that people get into assets that they're not comfortable with respect to their dollar value that is how much you're willing to put on the table and that actual asset uh an obscure artist out of uh i don't know la versus uh a picasso so there's we're not suggesting that we're simply saying that there's a much much broader demand and ability to access this asset class are writ large and there's technology available that enables that access and the uh the the the type of investor you could just do a credit is if you want that's a different sort of security the real issue again back to the law sorry guys but they uh it's it's interesting how we're sort of forced into the security token model for what we're doing here that that is tokenizing art as an asset class because the value of art isn't it doesn't really fit that security definition as a case for the lawyers and law professors here sccv howie h-o-w-e-y basically that says that an investment contract is a security an investment contract is an investment of some value um in a a common enterprise with the expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of third parties so you buy stock people are working at the club at the company are going to create a new version of software a new automobile and that's a security here you've got artwork that was made 10 years ago a year ago 100 years ago 500 years ago so there's no ongoing efforts of third parties to create value the values created by the market presumably i'm not the the the art market person but if the market truly and the collectors truly set the the value set the price it's hard to make the argument that these security tokens of these tokens rather are securities and there's an interesting case if anyone wants to look at it it's called noaa noa the key futures and essentially it's a it's a silver uh it's a case that says contracts for the sale of silver are not securities because the value of silver is a function of market value not efforts of third parties yeah and in addition to that there is the market validation because uh in an auction you have basically uh two parties maybe five maybe seven maybe ten that are validating the price but in a tokenization i have one token that represents that could represent one percent 0.1 percent of that asset of that picasso in the example that can be traded multiple times among thousands or hundred thousands of people so the market validation is including uh way more people than today so if we we make art accessible all the market will have the benefit and coming back to the community and then i like to just speak about community because it's very important in the blockchain ecosystems one of our tokens that we designed specifically for galleries is a buy back option so there is a tokenization uh the investors will buy a token and then the gallery which is still impossible of the art or the gallery could bring the artwork in art basel or whatever and so let's keep the normal activity of the gallery and when the gallery would like to sell the artwork 100 to a collector exercise the buyback option so there is a win-win situation because the gallery is having liquidity and often they don't have a lot of liquidity even if they have a very good asset and in this token this tokenization they can include experiences and they can organize very nice or funny dinners in in the events they can invite people to the exhibition or the or the pre-exhibition so we can mix the let's say the equity part to the experience part right and the liquidity is huge because you can you can make a uh you can get a price for what has been priceless otherwise because it's being traded you don't have to wait for the one buyer that could afford to buy the mona lisa they could put out some tokens and of course it's going to be worth more than they probably expect um and as for dows and community i mean it's important and you know i can imagine uh people in the arts world not the lawyers but people in the arts world it is good to consider it as a a parallel universe because essentially you can make your own rules because it's all on chain you can do whatever you want in there yeah there are some things where it does touch the law in the real world but um you can do things with people that would otherwise uh in a bro you know most systems especially legal and governmental systems uh are broken pretty radically right now and so it is a way out and that it's it's going to be pretty powerful and uh you know be applied in a lot of different ways so um yeah and the uh sorry joe the the um if you think about it really the museums in many respects we talked about this years ago hold all the power because you you possess physical sites for the protection preservation and store and display of the artwork now you need to figure out how do you get a liquid how do you create liquidity for you as a as a museum and for people who want to own part of that asset class and it's readily available and that's what joe's talking about in terms of the art and in terms of providence and i heard many times that uh but a museum won't sell the artwork will never sell the artwork is true but if i own one percent of a fontana or a picasso that i bought 20 years ago it's not that that because that artwork was not sold in this period of time that one percent is equal in value of 20 years ago so the value reflects what the market is saying in in other auctions or or markets or how the token trades or exactly and primarily how the token will trade and and that that also is another piece that we are looking at with with the liquidity itself because if you if you tokenize the asset but there's not any liquidity there for people to come in and trade against you're not going to get the volume you need to get a real uh i and i guess it's not even necessarily as more accurate i don't know the right term maybe that is a higher resolution of market pricing because you have more activity and we are also using blockchain to incentivize those that could provide liquidity to bring that liquidity to bear so that it's all there and it's a beautiful system great so i think it would be a wonderful time to open it up to the audience to questions yeah in the all the way in the back standing here first because you know with currencies microphone um there is a public trust and a lot of the increase in value happens in that public area not in a private area and lawyers i think recently have tried to ignore the existence of a public trust and we now have a war going on in the planet's basket and people are explaining that and um you know does it take a 1700 an hour lawyer to be able to say that a policeman kneeling on somebody's neck is too long nine and a half minutes um i think in terms of getting back to reality basically what this bitcoining stuff is is getting further away and when you say it's a way out um i think it's way in deeper so i'm not sure that we heard a question there i would say that um this is an argument of centralization versus decentralization and maybe that's something somebody would want to talk to or the fact that we're unlocking intangible values i would say it gives you the transparency it's like the the one problem i would say with with bitcoin is that it has gotten a lot of banking interests involved i don't know that i trust as much as i did before but but i can trust what is there there might be manipulation in the places it's it's touching but never near as much as what's happening on wall street anyway you can see it you can watch it i can i can accept bitcoin from from someone and know that i'm really getting it right i can sign i can sign something cryptographically and you can know that it's really me right um you may not know you may not believe in the value of it but you know that that's what it and is if you're trying to solve a problem with uncertainty you can be adversarial but if the uncertainty contains problem definition you have to be inclusive and collaborative and recognized rather than exclusionary and your your value is almost all based on exclusion uh i don't think so again blockchain is the technology is not the product and we all know that the euro will be a token so it's not a matter of uh if sorry yes if but when and christine lagarde already said it and china already issued a government a token which is issued by the government so you can use blockchain for many different purposes i mean i think another way maybe to rephrase that and then we'll take a question is what do you think maybe a lot of people have talked about web 2.5 and this view that like maybe we have to go back a step and what can traditional incumbents learn from blockchain and so where do you think maybe the museums or some of the other art establishments could learn from what you're doing yeah i do think we're very early like say if you look at web3 my opinion largely is it is poorly uh implemented at this point that a normal non-technical user shouldn't be touching it because it's too dang it's too there are too many things that they can mess up especially if they're if there's money involved but there are ways if you are doing it right again this is a very opinionated thing but if you're doing it right it should be more powerful and easier for a non-technical user to do something without without issue and that's the expectation yeah yeah okay uh sure oh you guys have somebody okay the copyright for creating a derivative work if the original work when you take when you spoke about some nfts are an original work and then you tokenize it how do you get around that issue all right you wouldn't get around it you'd price it into the transaction you couldn't sell it without acknowledging that copyright and pricing it into it you think artists will place conditions that their work will not be you know done this way and creating absolutely absolutely as they're entitled to and they should and in fact blockchain technology will give you more ability to program that digital representation of your work in certain ways cannot be re-transferred without my approval if it's if it's re-transferred cannot be re-transferred other than at 5x what i just sold i mean you can program all of that into the in a blockchain technology right now or to program a fee for each passage and in italy we have the following right which is uh basically this one yeah right and it's it it is interesting too because uh the providence plays a big role there right if someone tried to pretend like this is the real piece um and uh there are you could do anything with it so um so hi um i have some questions i know that you are approaching blockchain sort of from a patented um perspective even though i do think you know web3 generally seems more like a decentralized system i guess if you could comment on those choices and then you've laid out a nice roadmap for museum dials i'm curious what work you've already started doing with any museums or institutions thanks i have done no work with museums i have done work with dows in the real estate sector and in the sports sector so um and the sports sector is very active very active in a number of different ways whether it's the the um streaming representation of uh games into private metaverse bars where people are paying fees to to access that content um so but with museums so the interesting thing here is it isn't um what the museum uh what the structure is for the museum and what the museum needs and how that would be set up isn't any different than uh uh sports or any different than real it's a different asset but the same principles the technology the fractionalization the tokenization distribution and pricing all those principles go into that asset class and the the issue is uh ultimately how are you how are you developing a visibility awareness for participation in that access class and that asset class and i think this might be a good follow-on point because he's done sports was one of the originals and as we know there is studies that have looked at what has the pricing of traditional trading cards and you know assets that would already be out there when you bring something online and sell nfts of top shots and different things like that and it's suggesting that it's actually enhancing the market and there's complementarities between the two and so i do think it could be a win-win situation and it shouldn't be thought of as a competitive situation yeah we are going to tokenize the most famous horse in the world for example and so he the the people that will buy the token will have a percentage of the prize money uh of a certain period of time uh for all the competition uh the tournaments that the horse will win and regarding the feedback that we are having and the conversation for the art market one of our partners is lorenzo rudolf head of our basel for 10 years and so we have a very close relation with the gallery owners and they are all expecting a solution like this one because we we are not a tech company that is trying to apply a technology to the art market we came from their market understanding the problems and the the balance the mechanism inside their market and taking care of them were you when you said patent did you mean um did you mean literal or did you mean you know you thank you um your blockchain technology you mentioned is patented i see i see yes so so we we you know we were an open source project we didn't have any big vcs behind us we didn't have any any any guys with big pocketbooks behind us it was a very interesting organic project and given that we had my opinion i'm a software architect so everything is you know in that in that through that lens but um we'd solved uh interoperability we had solved blockchain scalability economic scalability for blockchain and a few other really important things and that was our that was our goal that's what we were we started at disney right so we we built this uh starting in 2014 uh and we open sourced it in 2016. and we get this sometimes and you know i i come from the open source world way back you know i'm i'm still i still run linux right i won't touch other os's um we have patents because there are companies like oracle and ibm and microsoft out there so we have patents to protect ourselves because i know if we didn't they would have they would have destroyed us already right so yeah and so you know they're essentially there now we do have a vision to potentially put those uh patents into a dowel and let the dow go after uh uh guys that would normally have come after us because they a lot of them are infringing those patents i do assume so anyway but yeah we have a lot of we have a good patent portfolio for the size of our company and our project but yeah hi um a question for joe i'm very curious how the sort of general ideas of provenance apply it in the digital realm let's say for a piece of digital art and specifically in the weeds of the algorithm what's to what safeguards are embedded to ensure you know the all the due diligence that would normally be done and for example what would be it instilled or in embedded to prevent an artist from going to ten different uh token issuers and saying here's my piece here's my piece here's my piece and you know preventing fraud um so there are a lot of very interesting things uh we have and this is generic in blockchain that if you don't have scalability you tend to have really weak data because instead of putting the source data on chain where it matters they will tend to put an evaluation or a result a bit of data on chain meaning when you go back in 100 years and you look at it you can't verify the data that got you what is the only transaction you can look at right so that is the the probably the most fundamental reason that scalability matters um and then if you apply that to art and what is the meaning of that that again that unknown artist that okay i'm gonna i'm gonna paint for a day take a picture paint for a day take a picture and you know you do this over months or whatever and now it's on chain that becomes you know actually worth something in the future that is meaningful because anybody who would uh take that piece and and you know do the typical thing i'm going to copy it i'm going to sell it doesn't have that backing data right now that said time is probably the most important part of that because without going into a huge amount of technical detail the real [Music] fundamental feature of a blockchain is time the fact that uh depending upon the the the type of blockchain that you can actually measure the the the likelihood that data that you are shown is number one uh the same data that that was there originally and uh and this is the thing that bitcoin did for the first time in human history is to be able to to pinpoint that between a little window of time right with in the past that you know i could hold up a newspaper um that man lands on the moon today and you could know okay he's holding this up after that happened but we don't know how far after you can't put a an end time on that window and blockchain lets you do that which is super interesting for truth because that means an event actually happened within that you know period of time whether it's minutes or or seconds in the past and with that you have you have some fundamental organic truth that you can look at for provenance but then if you also apply a prediction market to any of those points that and it could be a prediction market an actual dollar value that somebody says i'm going to say this is an original piece i'm going to put a hundred thousand dollars onto it at risk that if someone can prove it's not uh an original piece they will get that a hundred thousand dollars so the longer that hundred thousand dollars sits there the more likely it is uh true you know at least it can be looked at that way it's not absolutely but and then the other side of it is that it could just be a reputation you know it could be something that i'm staking my reputation on this which in my you know line of work would matter for when i'm actually selling something to customers so i'm going to make sure that i put that i i put the effort into making sure that this stuff's accurate and all of those things can over time you know be evaluated that someone's reputation uh five years ago might have been really good but in time it lessens because we realize that some of these things they said were were bunk you know and people just believed it and then the possibility to track all the documents about an artwork when we do a tokenization we do a due diligence on the owners on on the gallery or the important private collector and and then there is a due diligence on the artwork so certificate of authentication condition report an analysis by a curator or an art advisor everything will go on chain and the possibility to track all this information where they are coming from and when snapshot like you know every every uh every five minutes you see a picture it's still there right right it's that type of thing okay one last question and i think we have to call an end thank you this one this question is for david um you seem pretty confident that nft at least in the art space won't be a security so i'm a gc of a nft marketplace and things that keep me up at night is the ripple case oh yeah and whether or not with the scc's statement two weeks ago that they're expanding their crypto group by 20-fold and specifically identifying nfts what of collections like board apes where the value is derived from yoga brands a third party that is creating events creating extra value for these art pieces it's not the the art itself and the owner isn't doing anything to increase the value of the art so i'm curious how you think about that or can reconcile your prior statements with that so the the the additional army the sec is putting on this issue in a way i welcome it i think we need a lot more clarity and whether it's going to be 20 more lawyers at 1700 bucks an hour or uh 50 hopefully there's some more sensibility that comes with the um the evaluation because it's taking a 1940 the principal law here ladies and gentlemen is a 1946 case around citrus groves and it's saying well because this guy how he sold the real estate and then he said hey i'll grow the the citrus for you and then i'll sell it and then we'll split the profits that's an investment contract that's a security okay now we're talking about something entirely different i think the sec is making the mistake and if there's anyone from the sec here no problem um i've had this conversation with you already the the tokens the digital representation of value uh um is being equated to um the citrus and the citrus was never determined to be a security it was an investment contract around the money that went into developing the the the site to sell the product that ultimately resulted in money the sale of goods the third-party enhancement of of um of value um is a lot like um the dows so the the the my short answer is if there are market forces that are in play to improve an asset or an asset class that currently exists as opposed to creating that asset class creating that art then i think the evaluation from a legal standpoint is the same it's still not a security if the value of that asset is a function of market forces if the value of that asset is created by the efforts of third parties and you're putting money into it saying i want all of you to create this thing and my money's going into that so you do this you create this thing that will then have value and i expect profit from your efforts that's a security but that's not what's going on in a whole lot of this industry but i'm going to hear from the professor do you have a question professor what would you say is the single most significant distinction of this democratization side of the discussion from sale of multiples prints graphics and so on the single most important distinction relative to tokyo old-fashioned situation of having multiples yeah i would say even uh you know in your discussion up here i was going to mention it earlier that the the question of the artist getting uh the future rewards that with a dow and with blockchain you don't have to go to the state or to the federal or to you know all the nations on earth to try to get that passed you can just do it and let people buy it and and you don't have to worry about where the funds come from because the person knows that and i i actually think it's a legitimate value that if i was a collector you know if i was a multi-millionaire and i would actually enjoy seeing a percentage of that money going to the original artist it'd be beautiful right my i wasn't questioning that i was only asking uh from the standpoint of democratization of the art market in terms of allowing more people to buy uh we had the old-fashioned version of multiple i understand but it's it's a different approach we as in collateral as a fintech company we are approaching art as an asset class and not for the collectors we are also helping collectors in different ways but it's not the purpose of the tokenization that we are looking at sorry sorry a lot of questions where are my property rights if i do thank you where are my property rights if i join one of these dows so if i am going to buy stock in a company then i know that i get to vote on the decisions that are made within that company i get to choose who's leading the company if i'm going to join a dow and invest in a print or a same rise and even more i don't but i don't have the ability to determine whether or not it's sold or whether or not it hangs in x place or who has physical possession of it you do have governance rights oh yeah yeah you vote on that you have governance against the dow the dows yes and they have flexible and so those are structured under what i understand so there's like wyoming has dow laws the marshall islands house dow laws and more importantly the dow laws are math if you know if you if it's you can actually i would i would trust math over any politician on earth right i trust a lot of things over any politician on earth so it's like if you have that you don't have to worry if some politician has has uh some lobbyist that wants to change the rules and you know pull the rug out from under you you know you can you can you can make decisions uh and you can take risks on your own and it's all it's all right there you know no one thing is that the the organization in a dao one other is the tokenization of a gallery that just need liquidity for a certain period of time and in that case it's not a dao and you don't have a possibility to vote okay how does blockchain handle relativity because you know mass energy and uh you know light okay so so you have these things passing at relativistic speeds and art is relative and uh so how how do you how do you deal with um mass transforming itself into energy in uh blockchain lets you measure the energy that's what maybe that would be interesting to you that that's at least one of my um the the most important things that we've discovered is that you can actually take that event and put put a measure on it whether it's an energy nobody i think we've had a lot of great discussions so far and i really appreciate all the enthusiasm and questions thank you everyone thank you

2022-08-24 20:15

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