Al Barlow Technologies for Justice Partner and Attorney Shares his Experiences with Racism

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well welcome everyone to our monthly conversation   on racial healing and reconciliation uh  we have our a guest tonight al barlow   these sessions are sponsored by the jacksonville  urban league and its center for advocacy and   social justice i'm the director of the center  dennis stone and we're pleased to have all of   you here and those of you who will be watching  the recording going forward i want to thank jamie krasnigor julie miller and sophia berger  for their assistance in making meetings like   this happen um and i also welcome tami hodo  who's just joining um who has been a active   supporter and in fact we're working together  on a second annual conference on rate racial   healing and reconciliation and she may be able  to talk about that towards the end of the program so um i'd like to introduce al barlow a longtime  attorney in jacksonville born and raised in   jacksonville has a fascinating history to share  we're so grateful he's taken time out of his   schedule he actually had to drive up from miami  today and here he is with us looking as fresh   as ever so al please take it away well first  of all thank you for this blessed opportunity   to uh come and participate i just found out  about this when you all consulted with me to   invite me to come so i've watched a couple of  them they were very informative um and i was   asked to just tell a little bit about myself i  was um and by the way i'm going to title my topic   just for organizational purposes and i know we're  talking about racial healing and reconciliation   but i want to title this from the cradle  to the casket racism and prejudice are   baked into the american psyche from from cradle  to casket racism and prejudice are baked into   the american psyche um and i'm just gonna uh  give you a little bit about my background first   and i'll go into some you know life experiences  um i was born in a separate but equal hospital   here in 1961 it was called brewster a lot of  african-americans who are older probably than   40 or 50 or so they know about that hospital um it  was a separate but equal really unequal hospital   and i was born there so from the cradle like i  said you know from the from the cradle to the   casket so i was born in a separate but  equal hospital which was really unequal   because the facilities were not you know up to  par with the other facilities then i went to   my mother's day care she ran a daycare for  40 years i went there it was predominantly   um african-american although we did have two  white students who went to the school so that was   my first introduction to a whites when i was in  kindergarten at my mother's day care which is on   which was on the north side of town um edgewood  area that's the kind of you know the area most   people know about um and i went to carter g  woodson elementary school in the 60s and i   was there in the sixth grade when integration  came into effect so i was in predominantly   um all african-american schools until they bust  whites in to us at carter g woodson elementary   and so it changed the dynamic of schools of the  school immediately um and i'm gonna come back   to what happened to me in in the third grade  or the second grade before that but anyway   uh when they bust in white students it changed  the dynamic and i found myself having to protect   white students from some of my friends who just  wanted to beat him up for no reason whatsoever so   one of the first experiences i had was protecting  a minority of whites from a majority of blacks   in my elementary school went to northwestern  junior high at the time it was predominantly   african-american and um so i was in a  majority as well went to reigns high school   from 76 to 79 graduated with honors in 1979  all in the majority still it was a handful of   white students who went there but we were in the  majority so i never experienced any kind of real   overt racism prejudice or discrimination with the  exception of that uh experience i had in the uh   third grade which i'm gonna come back to because  that kind of laid the foundation for the rest   of my life albeit i didn't know it until i was  being interviewed by a reporter for a story last   year and it all came back to me so i went from  uh reigns in 1979 to the university of florida   and that's when i became a minority i never knew  what a minority was until i really went to the   university of florida 33 000 students back then in  1979 and i came out of high school one friday or   thursday and i was in college the next weekend and  it was a total culture shock for me i was uh used   to being you know in the know president of this  leader of that all of a sudden i became nobody   overnight and i started experiencing immediately  some direct racism prejudice and discrimination   um at the university of florida and i  didn't know whether or not i could you know   hang there until my first set of grades came  out and once my first set of grades came out   in the summer of 79 i knew that i could  hang with those students and you know the   rest is history i did graduate on time in in  1983 with a bachelor's in political science   i was accepted at howard university florida state  university and university of florida which i   started i really wanted to go to howard but i  couldn't afford it and they were not going to   give you a scholarship until your second year so  they're going to make you prove to them that you   could make it well by that time i would have been  30 000 debt so i went to fsu on a scholar on a   tuition waiver and a stipend but after i started  there about two days the university of florida   offered me a full virgil hawkins scholarship to  go to the university of florida college of law   free of charge so i wound up breaking my lease  and tallahassee went back to the university of   florida and finished law school in a year in  uh two and a half years my class was first   class to receive the virgil hawkins fellowship  which was a three-year full-ride scholarship   for african-american students no one else was  qualified for that and they did that in honor of   virgil hawkins who integrated the state university  system a lot of people don't know that but he   he applied got accepted showed up black and  they told you you cannot go here because you're   african-american well before he applied there were  no race there was no race bar on the application   you just knew not to apply so he applied met  all that qualification but when he showed up   african-american they wouldn't let him sit he  filed a lawsuit it went for almost a decade or so   he ultimately won that lawsuit but they gave  him money to go to another school out of state   and what they did was they gave a scholarship to  15 i think african americans at fsu and 15 no uh   five or 15 at each school and i was one of  those to get it and by virtue of the fact   that i graduated a half a year earlier than  my class i am technically and historically the   first african-american to graduate as a virgil  hawkins fellow from the university of florida   uh college of law a good friend of mine he's  a lawyer here in town from pensacola he's the   first one to graduate with that from fsu  so we're the first in the state of florida   came back to jacksonville as a public defender for  18 months went into private practice from there   i want to go back to the third the second grade  because something very very significant happened   to me and one of the things that i want to discuss  tonight is racism prejudice and discrimination   we know about overt racism we know about that  but a lot of people don't understand about   um implicit bias and and harvard has a good test  it's called it's an implicit bias test it's a   real good test i recommend that anybody take it  because what happens is most racism prejudice and   discrimination that i've experienced was not over  it was it was it was in a way that the person who   did it was not even aware sometimes of what  they're doing now i'm not making an excuse   for racist people but what i'm telling you is that  there are a lot of people who don't even know that   they're racist now i know that might sound kind of  odd but let me give you some just basic examples   before i get to that third grade teacher even  today i can go to when dixie dressed like this   after work or whatever before work and i can  see two or three white people ahead of me   okay the clerk who let's say it's a white clerk or  cashier they'll speak to two or three white people   in front of me like hey how you doing how's  your day how's everything going when i come   up it's hot that's it that's it that's all i get  but i'll sometime i'll wait and count my change   and the next person behind me let's say they're  after their their white it starts all over hey   how you doing how's everything going that person  had no concept that they treated me differently   than anybody else so what i'm trying to tell  you is if i ask that person if you ask them   did you treat all your customers and saying today  they'll say yes they did they really cognitively   believe that they did but they didn't so if  you show them a video they're shocked that they   if you show them that video sometimes they'll cry  because they don't they didn't understand what   they did until you showed it to them now there's  a word for that a phrase it's called cognitive   dissonance cognitive dissonance and what it is  is anytime our minds come upon information that   conflicts with our natural cultural tendencies we  tend to fight the information before i go to the   third grade again let me tell you what happens  what was happening to me in the courthouse when   i became a lawyer i would sometimes the judges  would have chambers which means you go in and   talk to the judge before court starts and you tell  the judge what you're going to do before you do it   so all the lawyers are going in to chambers and  the baitiff has to let us in let's see two or   three or four white lawyers walk in before me  all of us are dressed the same with sewing and   briefcases he's letting one white lawyer go in  two white lawyers go in but when i walk up he's   like wait a minute where you going i'm like uh  i'm going to chambers uh your your case can be   called later by your attorney i'm like no i'm the  attorney i have a client outside and the lord in   the bailiff will apologize not in other words  he saw a pacman that's all he saw he didn't see   my tie he didn't see my suit he didn't see my  briefcase all he saw was a black man and he was   not accustomed to seeing black attorneys and so he  stopped his first thought was to stop me because   he thought i was the defender or a client in  the wrong place in other words his first mindset   was not that i was a lawyer even though i was  dressed like one that's cognitive dissonance now   once he learned that i was a lawyer was a lawyer  he apologized to me but the point is his first   mindset was that i was not a lawyer that's the  problem that we have in society now let me go back   to the third grade teacher because that that  really uh it really laid a foundation for my   life that i didn't really even understand what  happened was um the teachers would line you up   to take you to lunch and then when lunch was over  they would line you up and walk you back to class   well what we would do just you know a little bad  children the teacher would be leading us like a   mother duck and while we're behind her we would  jump out of the line like pistons one would jump   out this way like little pistons you know and my  timing got off one time so i jumped out of the   light just as i jumped out she turned around and  saw me so she stopped the line well i know i'm in   trouble that's not even an issue so i jump back in  line i'm thinking i'm just gonna get some you know   reasonable punishment that  white female took her hand slapped me as hard as she could i hit the ground  her whole her phalanges prints were in my face and   then she kicked me now i'm in the second grade  now here's the problem with that number one   did i do something wrong yes number two should i  have been punished yes that's not even an issue   the issue was i got excessively punished and you  cannot tell me she would have slapped a white kid   like that no now some issue was happening with her  life who knows she might have been going through   divorce or whatever the case may be i don't know  what the issue was but she took it out on me she   had no mercy on me whatsoever and so that gets  to what happens a lot of times in society in   society what happens a lot of times is there is no  break given to an african-american or any minority   with whom the perpetrator cannot readily  identify that's how most prejudice racism and   discrimination happen it happens with the lack  of the benefit or a blessing or a break being   equitably distributed or dispensed to a person  doesn't look like you or with whom you cannot   identify in other words what the most racism  prejudices and discrimination i've experienced   in my life although some of it is overt and  i'll share that with you as well most of it was   was subconscious from the perspective that this  person treated me differently but may not have   actively known that they were now i'm  not making any excuse because here's the   reason why because the results are the same the  results are absolutely no different if a person   mistreats you ignorantly not understanding that  they're mistreating you the results are the same   there's just the same as a person who's racist  prejudiced and discriminatory a member of the aka   the results are the same you can have a racist  judge on the bench who hates african americans   and gives not one of them a break or you can have  a person on the bench who is ignorant of their own   cognitive dissonance and they will sentence the  person the same as the racist person on the bench   the results are absolutely no different the  difference is one can be educated to understand   what they're doing is not right whereas the other  one doesn't care i don't care how much education   you give them it's only going to take a heart  conversion that's salvation or something like   that a radical conversion and belief in the bible  can save them that's it but the average person who   doesn't understand what they're doing they can  be helped now let me give you some instances of   some direct racism bridges and discrimination  i remember one time i was riding my motorcycle   on fraternity row at the university of florida and  some some guys i was on fraternity road to all the   frat houses on this uh street and i was riding my  bicycle i mean motorcycle 750 suzuki around the   curve probably doing about 20 miles an hour okay  because that's what the speed limit is on campus   and some drunk white boys came out and tried to  pull me off that motorcycle at 20 miles an hour   it just so happened that i didn't fall another uh  respiration situation i have had happened to me   at the university of florida was um i uh i went  out with some some friends of mine who happened to   be white and we we go out we're having a good time  and everything and um i didn't notice it until   something happened i was only african-american  in that whole establishment i didn't realize it   until we were walking out and somebody said let's  kill that [ __ ] and i'm like who's the [ __ ]   they're trying to kill looking around it was me in  other words i was oblivious to the fact that never   happened to me again after that i was oblivious  to the fact that i was the only african-american   in that establishment and what had happened  was i had let my car down because when you're   raised on the north side of jacksonville you  understand quite well you cannot let your   anywhere you go ever i remember when we were  kids children and we would get we would be   going downtown my parents and here's this lecture  all the way downtown listen when we get downtown   do not raise your voice do not look people in  the eye do not do all of these don'ts don't   stones well it was because they knew good and  well if an african-american child did something   a child did something they would wind up they  could wind up getting killed or going to jail   just for an african-american kid talking out of  line or looking at a white person the wrong way   or whatever the case may be and so we would get  those lectures all the time the problem today   is that people don't understand that there's still  active racism prejudice and discrimination going   on and i would say it's worse now than it was  before because a lot of people think that we've   arrived and we really haven't i remember  one example that happened in law school   um our law school exams were like four hours  so when you come in you know you're gonna be   sent down there for at least even if you're  good you're at least three and a half hours   okay it was a white kid in my class who would  always brag about his father and how much money   he made an hour and it was a lot of money back  then when he was talking about his father this   is like 1980 83 84 85 he was telling us what  his daddy was making his daddy was a bull gator   which is you know they donate to millions of  dollars to the university of florida this kid   we would be in exams after 30 minutes he'd get  up and walk out and everybody would look like   where's he going he walked out he never came  back you know what because his daddy was giving   money to the school we all knew it and he was  so prideful and arrogant and ignorant that he   wouldn't even sit down and act in other words the  professor would help him he wouldn't even sit down   for four hours and play the game he got up after  30 minutes and walked out and he graduated you   know on time i graduated early but he graduated on  time there's another scenario i remember happening   i remember i was studying one one one friday  i believe and i was walking out the library   and i heard one of my professors hollering across  the breezeway to a student who was in my class and   he called his name he said hey so so tennis nine  o'clock in the morning i'm thinking to myself okay   this is my law professor playing tennis with  one of my classmates so i started watching the   classmate from from then on sure enough the  professor was taking care of them i'm quite   sure they had some relationship whatever parents  i don't know what they can a lot of those kids   i went to school with their parents went there  mothers went their fathers went their grandparents   went there i'm the first generation of family to  go to college so i didn't have those connections   but you know there were other ways to to get  around that system i remember i wanted to um and   let me just say this right here i'm gonna give you  some positive things about racism prejudice and   discrimination but before i get there i'm gonna  tell you what happened with with a white professor   they brought a white professor he was an exchange  professor from south africa they brought him in to   teach one of our political science classes and so  it blew me away what happened because i saw i saw   reverse racism against white people with him  and this is what happened he had given us a   tough assignment and he gave us a timeline  and uh one of the kids didn't meet it one of   the white kids didn't meet it and uh he got on  him right in front of the class he said listen   you will get this right next time or you will  flunk this class and so the kids say you know   i'm going to do it i'm going to do it and i  remember this like it was yesterday the kid   said i'm going to do it it's gonna be right and  the professor said it had better be in his accent   i remember that i locked it in my mind he said  this had bet to be because i wanted to see if   he was gonna hold that white student do it and he  did not only did he hold that white student to it   but he was harder on all the white students i had  never seen anything like that in my life he was   treating white students like i was used to  white teachers treating black students but   he would treat us with deaf words and i could  tell i said you know what he has seen some real   racism prejudice and discrimination in south  africa and he knows about the existence of it in   america and he wasn't playing the radio i you know  i felt sorry for some of my white students because   that man was he was hard on them but he was light  on us i mean he gave us deference so i remember   thinking to myself i wonder if white people feel  sorry for us when they feel when they see us being   discriminated against by white people because i  felt sorry for those people but i could identify   with what they were suffering from because  i had suffered from it but let me say this   to you ladies and gentlemen if you never suffered  through any of the things that i'm talking about   i'm probably speaking french to you and you speak  english okay a lot of people who have not suffered   through these things cannot readily identify with  these problems and it permeates from the cradle   like i said to the casket it is baked into the  american psyche and most people don't understand   let me give you some positive things about  racism prejudice and discrimination from an   african-american's perspective i try to be very  very cognizant or aware of what's going on so when   i first got back here from law school i noticed  that you know white white lawyers didn't really   respect me they didn't they they presumed that  i was i guess dumb or ignorant until you know i   developed a reputation for trying cases but once i  developed that reputation it was too late for him   because i had already beat him and let me tell  you what i would do i would never let if i if i   could avoid it i would never tell a opponent that  i went to the university of florida i would never   tell them that i went to the university of florida  college of law i would never tell them that i went   on a scholarship i would never tell them that  i graduated early i would never tell them i was   in this i was in that i was president of this i  was president of my i was vice president of the   law student body at the university of florida i'm  gonna tell you how i want it because it was only   about 45 african americans up against about 2 500  students and i had to campaign to white students   to win but what i did was i campaigned to the  seniors and i basically told them i said look   we know you guys are going out and doing some  great things and making money and everything else   we know you don't care about what's going on but  somebody like me we care so i went to the seniors   and i had a white female who just knew she was  going to win didn't campaign hard just kind of   lackadaisically handle her election  assuming she was going to win   i killed her and became vice president of the  law student body at the university of florida   got got more votes than her on all fronts  definitely gotta block african americans but   that wasn't enough to win it for me but let  me tell you what what what i did was i used   people's prejudice against them i would never  tell a a white opponent how smart i was i   i wouldn't want them to think i was smart you know  why because what i found was i would let their   ignorance work against them what i found was they  did when they thought i was ignorant or whatever   when they played the stereotype they didn't  prepare like i was preparing i'm over preparing   and they're under preparing they're assuming that  they're just going to mop the floor with me and   ladies and gentlemen i cannot tell you how many  times i've seen my opponents you know we've won   the case the jury has come back and i'm looking  at them and they're sitting down at the con at   the council's table looking down and i know what  that look is that look is what in the world just   happened let me tell you what happened to you what  happened to you was you assumed that i was dumb   you assumed that i was ignorant you  assumed that i went to some ranking college   you was but after it's all over it's too late  it's way too late for that so what i'm telling   you is there's some positive sides to people  being racist towards you and presidential   towards you if you let them think what they want  to think see by the time you get in a trial baby   it's too late you know and i'm standing up you  know doing the closing argument talking for an   hour with no notes because i know it and my my  opponent is over there write writing notes no   my closing argument isn't my hardest in my mind  i've lived this case for six months i know it   like the back of my hand and so when you come to  me with some crazy stuff i got a counter argument   for it immediately because i've lived this case i  understand this case but to them it's just another   piece of paper that the shuffling and the file  or whatever and they assumed that the opponent   who was african-american it took about maybe maybe  about five years after five years nobody took me   uh for granted anymore a matter of fact i heard  that um in the state attorney office that um they   will put two lawyers on me so i would always try  cases against two lawyers still win the case i'm   trying to case against two lawyers a pro an  investigator a detective and an arresting officer   and a paralegal we still win the case because we  over-prepared um some of the best things that ever   happened to me in my life long term were when i  was mistreated by other people i'ma tell you why   because even that scenario with that  teacher i wanted to hurt that lady at at   whatever age i was but i couldn't it was nothing i  could do to her i couldn't do anything to her okay   that's when i first heard about the naacp because  they called it end up my mother when i went home   these fingerprints were in my phalanges prints  were in my face marks with my face they called   the naacp and the n-double acp excuse me  president went up to school the next day   and i remember this like it was just like they  they called me in the principal's office and   asked me what happened i told them and then they  called each one of my classmates in individually   and asked every one of them what happened  and all of my classmates said the same thing   and the only thing they did for that lady  was transferring her to another school   that's all they did for her in the 60s that  wouldn't happen like that today it wouldn't   she would have a more of a consequence my  parents didn't even sue the school system   for that back then that's how you know you  just didn't do anything like that back in the   60s they were too afraid to do it but um those  are the kind of things you know that happened   back then but some of those things like that  scenario right there uh it burned in me a will   to want to right wrong i didn't realize that until  i was going over my life with a reporter last year   and it hit me like a ton of bricks i'm partners  with two guys in a software company the software   company it's called technologies for justice and  what we do is we've been blessed by god to create   some software what that software can do is go  through two million records in seconds and pull   up apple the apple lawrence orange comparisons so  that judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys   public and private can see what former sentences  have been handed down so that they can now issue   sentences that are consistent with those that  have been handed down in the past it's called   equity and sentencing analysis system and um  it's technologies for justice.com is the website   technologies for justice.com is the website the  other area that i'm heavily involved in right   now is trying to secure housing for homeless  people now the greatest common denominator   for racism prejudice discrimination and just  um lack of helping people is is uh economics   that's the greatest common denominator i see a lot  of poor whites being discriminated against just   as badly as poor poor and rich african americans  as a matter of fact um in the system and so the   most the greatest common denominator is economics  african americans who are well-off and can afford   to hire top-notch attorneys do quite well however  poor whites who cannot hire top-notch lawyers   top-notch lawyers excuse me they don't do well  as well as whites who can however the average   white defendant will do better than the  average black defendant when both of them   have public defenders i can't explain to you  why but i've seen case after case after case   whereby the situations and circumstances  are the same same charges same uh history   but the sentences are diametrically opposite one  person getting seven years another person getting   15 years yet the cases are the same and so a lot  of times it's because of that cognitive dissonance   that i talked about earlier and so um i'm working  with housing for the homeless and that website   is housing for the homeless dot com housing for  the homeless dot com and trying to work with our   city government uh to get them to change the  law on their own they wouldn't do it so now we   got a petition drive going got to get 30 000  uh signatures together by the end of november   to change the law our city gives away millions  of dollars to to the rich who don't need it   to renovate downtown buildings okay the same  buildings where they don't want any homeless   people around well i have a proposal that if it  passes it'll require the city to set aside five   percent of the millions of dollars that they  give out to the wealthy to renovate downtown   and what we have is a corporate welfare system  that helps the rich the downtown development   downtown investment authority evaluates proposals  and sometimes the evaluator will say that the the   company can afford to build the project on their  own we shouldn't give them any money they'll veto   that person and give them the money anyway last  year alone the city of jacksonville gave away   a half a billion dollars in grants and forgivable  loans okay and some loans that are not forgivable   to the wealthy all i'm saying is if we set aside  five cent on every dollar that they're giving away   and grants them forgivable loans to the wealthy  they just set aside five percent of that your and   my homeless problem will be resolved because  that more than enough to pay for permanent   housing for the homeless irrespective of whether  you're man or woman black or white and with that   i've been talking about 30 minutes so i'm  going to open it up and allow you all to   take it from there i think we might have  a q a session thank you all any questions yes we have mixed results so far but let  me before i answer that question directly   i'm going to answer it indirectly here's  what you have this this is so revolutionary   that it's hard for people to wrap their  minds around it okay so it's it is it is   fundamentally changing the way we have done  criminal work forever and so since it's so   new you know anything that's new especially when  it's technologically inclined it's a slow process   so there's mixed results but in my opinion it's  right on the right trajectory and schedule for it   i know so my business partners think it's too slow  i don't think it's too slow i think it's going to   just slowly permeate society so we have several  public defender officers using it right now   and um and a lot of private attorneys  and i do help private attorneys   all over the state you can buy a subscription and  use it yourself we'll train you up on how to use   it yourself so you can do your own searches but  what most lawyers do is they'll hire me to run   the searches for them and then some of them will  hire me as an expert to testify in course i write   expert witness reports so we do have officers  using it throughout the state and a lot of private   attorneys using it but we we have something  working that i'm not in liberty to discuss   right now that um we're working on and it's very  promising that a prosecutor's office and a public   defender's office is trying to come in and use it  um together which is that's revolutionary that's   a cat and a dog sitting down having a having  dinner together you know what i mean but they   both of them understand the significance of it  from the prosecutor's side if you can look at data   and look at the average sentences that have been  uh handed out let's say for burglary charge in   the past you can formulate now reasonable offers  in the present and the future that's based upon   prior case uh dispositions which we call that case  law press case precedent we do it in the law in   terms of legal research and writing in the cases  but we have not done it with respect to sentences   so that's what esses does and so it's very  promising and you're going to hear more about it   as more and also i'm working with some  judges right now which is very important   so if the judges embrace it it'll kind of start  snowballing but i would give it like within the   next five to seven years or so i think everybody  will be using it but on in my opinion is it's   right on the right trajectory because anytime  you want to bring something that's different   you know it's going to be a slow  process for people to use it amen usually no sir abs no see because what happens  is appeals are normally directed towards whether   or not a mistake was made at trial okay there  are some that can take place whether mistake   was made as sentencing okay but usually um  those appeals do not really work because   the system is not geared towards appellate  cases towards sentences that are excessive   um the the uh equal protection clause protects  people from excessive sentences the problem is   there's been no objective means by which  to prove that a sentence was excessive   until this software and so this software just  came on online in 2018 okay and watch this   the first case it was used on the person  was facing a white male who was 20 years old   turned 21 a day after his sentencing was facing 10  years minimum to 150 years maximum because he had   five no 10 counts of five 15-year  felonies so that's 10 times 1550 years   so his minimum sentence was 10 years his maximum  150. well when they use the data from our system   the state attorney i mean the public defender  offered uh two years they had a hearing   and she presented the data to the judge  the judge sentenced the young man to two   years of the youth in a youth camp two years  of community control that's home detention   and two years of probation so he had a six year  sentence that was split by two years incarceration   in the youth camp two years home detention and two  years probation that went down from a minimum of   10 to a maximum of 150 years you know why because  the judge was able to see that that same court   had issued other people probationary  sentences for for 20 30 40 50 60 counts   this guy only had 15 counts so that's the power  of this system that we have any other questions hold on let me answer that one first okay that's  a good question here it is we all have free will   god gives us free will there are many people i've  met i know a veteran that i served you know um   he's been homeless for 15 years and he likes being  homeless those people are minorities that's in the   minority okay the vast majority of people that i  serve and i work with okay i'm a minister as well   so i preached to him on sunday mornings outside in  the hot sun okay and you know give them clothing   food and tents and all that stuff the vast  majority of them were not homeless within the last   two or three years they're homeless now because  of the economy in kobe 19 everything else the   vast majority of those people want housing okay  but what i do run into a lot is the things that   you just say and what i what i find i was talking  to a councilman who said well though some of those   people want to be homeless yes sir but it's only a  very microscopic feud so please mail this service   don't get it twisted there are a few who want to  be homeless but there are some of us out here who   drink too much we waste our money we gambling away  you know what i'm saying so a lot of us out here   are not exercising our free will properly either  it's just that we're not homeless but we're just   as irresponsible as some of them so my focus is  on the ones who want home want housing permanent   housing okay and i want to help them if the others  want to exercise their free will to maintain their   homelessness they have the right to do that but  i'm not going to believe that the vast majority   of people want to be homeless just because of an  unfaithful few okay what's your second question but uh and i get that question a lot as well i get  a lot of questions like this so thank you for it   because it give because it gives me an opportunity  to answer because it's a legitimate question   here's the reality of what's going on i can only  do what i can do okay that's not my job to get   them jobs what they need right now is housing  i gave a guy a tent last let me just give you   an example i'm talking i gave a guy a tent last  february of last year i ran into him in the summer   he seized me i hadn't seen him since i gave  him the tent he starts crying he said you   don't remember me dude i said no i don't he said  you gave me a tent in in february and it changed   my life i said attempt change your life how did  it do that he said because when you gave me that   tent i had somewhere to put my clothes to keep  them dry i was able to go and interview for a job   i got the job okay i got an apartment i got a car  he pointed to his car it was a used car he bought   it and everything but he said the tent is what  situated him to be in a position to be comfortable   enough to go get a job so my responsibility that  i'm taking upon myself is to try to facilitate   them getting housing now i work with soulsbarker i  work with uh changing homelessness and i'm working   with anybody else but my that's not my lane my  lane is to get them housing and then there they   have a multiplicity of services through source  walker and changing homelessness and trendy rescue   mission city rescue mission that they can get them  off drugs and everything else that's not my lane   that's not my lane my lane is to help them  get housing once they by the way a lot of   them have social security i've helped one  man get his social security check cut back on   he was without it for six months he lives  in the shelter right now he gets over 600   a month in social security but guess what that's  not enough for an apartment now because the   rents are so high so a lot of these people have  income but it's not enough to get them housing so   i'm trying to get them housing that's paid  for by the city i know people don't like that   here's what the main i'm i'm meeting with  a counselor and somebody from the mayor's   office last summer i'm meeting with a councilman  i thank god for him he set a meeting up for me to   talk to somebody in the mayor's office somebody in  finance about this idea so i'm talking to them and   somebody from the mayor's office asked me this  loaded question they said well pastor barlow   um what do you think the city's responsibility  should be towards giving housing to homeless   people now what she was really saying is should  the city be in the business of corporate of of uh   welfare giving houses to the homeless here's  the answer to that question no the city should   not be in the business of giving welfare to  homeless people for them to have housing but   let me show the hypocrisy of it the city should  not also be in the business of giving millionaires   money to renovate downtown yet you have no problem  with that none you have no problem with giving a   half a billion dollars to rich people even when  the people say they shouldn't get the money you   give it to him anyway and grant's unforgivable  but my answer to her is as long as you give   money to millionaires you should be able to give  money to the to homeless people because i call   it what it is it's corporate welfare that's  what it is so what i want to do is tie a law   to that as long as they give money to millionaires  let five percent of that money go towards housing   for the homeless if you don't want to give housing  to the homeless stop giving it to millionaires   and i'll leave you alone that's how i answer those  questions but thank you for that um for those very   uh insightful questions i appreciate it anybody  else got some questions i i have a few yeah a few   statements if i could just real quick because  it surely is not my show and thank you so much   for your for the information but i would like to  present this to the group i'm an educated woman   historically black colleges undergrad and  grad i sustained a severe stomach injury   in that process i lost my home i was homeless  excuse me for that um when i sought shelter   they told me that i couldn't get it because  in order to get the emergency shelter   i had to be coming from a domestic violence  situation i wasn't i had to be on drugs i wasn't   i had to be a woman with children i'm single i  don't have any children i had to fit all these   parameters that i didn't fit yet i couldn't  work and i lost my home i was homeless   there was a facility in my neighborhood that  they wanted me to go to i refused to go in   it you know why because they had to sit they  would have a sit in chairs and in the evening   they closed out the lights the men saw me come  in and say yeah we want you to come in here   so i didn't go but people on the outside felt like  well you should go in there if you're homeless   go in there get what raped hurt  harmed so all the stigma in the biases   that were a part of that system kept me homeless  and unsheltered and thank goodness i had friends   who eventually uh i went to stay with but i was  still homeless so i'm presenting this to the group   when people are out there walking down  the street homeless and maybe even crying   it's not just because they want to be  there our circumstances put us there   and that's all i wanted to say and that's so i'm  glad you said that because i mean listen y'all   minister to these people i know them by name i  hope some of the veterans get connected with the   um programs and everything and see here's it's  a vicious cycle there's i there's one lady i   call her miss betty i met her uh last year she was  sleeping on the sidewalk this lady is in her 80s   80s white lady she could be my grandmother i'm  like what are you doing out here she told me   that she had been renting a home from somebody i  think in springfield or whatever for years decades   maybe at a low cost the owner sold the house to  someone else okay they immediately went up on her   rent i can't remember what she told me it was he  couldn't afford it they kicked that lady out that   lady was sleeping on the sidewalk 80 something  year old white female sleeping on the sidewalk   at jefferson and you and i bought her a tent and  i gave her some gift cards for harvard's grocery   store down the street but that lady was sleeping  outside and when i started making a bunch of noise   about what was going on up there you know the  city came in and they took a lot of them out   uh from we call it the camp on the corner  of jefferson union but what they did was   the city very uh clandestinely took them  away and gave them temporary accommodations   you know at a facility around the corner and then  they put them in um hotels for about six months or   whatever when that money ran out all just about  all those people were homeless again but what   they wanted to do was clean off clean up that  area because it was receiving a lot of negative   publicity but there are a lot of people out there  they were not on drugs before they became homeless   now some of them get introduced to drugs to try to  cope with homelessness because they've never been   homeless before they don't know how to deal with  it so then they get in a vicious cycle yeah some   of them were on drugs before they became homeless  but a lot of them were not they were just like you   and me and here's what i asked people how do you  feel in your heart when you see a homeless person   can you empathize with them or do you just like  bruce holmes being arranged song says uh go get a   job because see if you cannot have any compassion  on those people it's something wrong with you   something wrong with you because guess what  it's only but by the grace of god that we're   not homeless i was talking to a lady just three  days ago she said she would used to look down on   homeless people until guess what she became  homeless and now she helps me help homeless   people because she's coming out of homelessness  now and she understands it so sometimes god will   providentially allow us to fall into the same  negative situations and circumstances that we   cannot with which we cannot empathize to get  some compassion in us is there another question you're correct you're absolutely correct  i think i'm glad i'm glad that you opened   up because that reminds me of this um  i did an interview with one of the new   i think action news jax it's on  the website if you go to housing   for the homeless campaign.com is the interview  that i did with a television station here news  

station and you know how reporters do they'll go  behind you and ask somebody else i'm not an expert   in that area at all you know homelessness i'm  learning about it but they asked a expert about   my idea i guess thinking that she was going to  disagree with me and this is what the expert said   and your statement reminded me the expert told the  reporter listen it's less expensive to get them   permanent housing for the very same  reasons you just articulated so well   so he was shocked that she agreed with me but  it is correct now i'll say this i won't name the   person but there is another expert in this area  who i consult with in homelessness they've been in   it's their career so i asked this person and this  what they told me and this is sad but it's true   they say pastor barlow the city is not gonna city  officials are not listen to this now i'm being   trained schooled on this how to present this stuff  they said city officials will not listen to your   compassionate pleas that it's the right thing  to do the moral thing to do to get these people   houses for the homeless they won't listen to  that but let me tell you what they'll listen to   if you go in there and tell them that it's going  to be cost it's going to be less expensive for   the city to give them permanent housing than  it would to keep them in shelters okay which   shelters are very expensive very expensive you  got the salaries you got the food you got the   insurance and everything else okay now shelters  have a place to to uh to work they should be there   but for emergency situations only but that's  not what's happening now they're permanently   housing homeless people in shelters which  means the people who temporarily need housing   for emergency situations can't get it because  they're already over they have over capacity so   what she what this person told me was if you go  down there and make economic arguments to them   it'll work so i put it to the test i'm talking  to an official one day a week or so after this   and i'm telling them about you know the homeless  and the problems everything they were just giving   me up a deaf ear until i said this i said you know  what if you if you provide them housing you know   away from downtown away from the businesses that  you're building up and everything you know it'll   help the business owners and they'll like it all  of a sudden the person started paying attention   to what i was saying that's sad but that's true  so with a certain group of people i highlight   the morality issues with another with other groups  of people especially hard-headed politicians who   are only concerned about the dollars i come from a  different perspective but i bring it all together   as much as i can because i'm also a minister and  i'm going to tell you the truth okay if you can   have if you can harbor hatred in your any human  being but especially one that's poor and destitute   and and hurting you got a problem your problem  is you got an eternal problem you might not get   into heaven like that you might have all the  money on earth that you want you might have   all the nice cars houses boats motorcycles 401k  playing full and fat but guess what if you don't   have any compassion in your heart towards your  fellow man you are just as homeless spiritually   as a physically homeless person on earth right  now any other questions comments or concerns   i have a comment attorney barlow just want to  let you know i like what you're doing and i'm so   much in your corner because we do need to provide  housing for the homeless so we can get the people   up off the street so that they can have a chance  or opportunity to go forward and to do better   like you said a lot of people are homeless because  of their financial situation a lot of them do not   want to be homeless but because of financial  situation a financial hardship that is what   happened to them so kudos to you you know that you  know if you can get housing affordable housing for   these people we need more of that and downtown  would be a perfect location like you say a lot   of abandoned buildings that could be utilized so  thank you so much for what you're doing and keep   up the good work and thank you for thanking me but  let me say this right here because i i get real   uh with people you know um this is not about me at  all i'm so far afield and what i was trained to do   and what i thought i was gonna be doing in life  is not even funny but here's the reality of it   i have a certain skill set that can be used to  to kind of kick the donkey in the butt to get   something done i mean i'm a move in the shaker i  know they've been doing it all my life so i'm not   going to cow down i'm not going to cower down and  not do it for these people but here's the reality   of it this is not a city government problem to  solve it's really a societal problem to solve   it's really a church problem to solve to be frank  with you but i'm leaning on the government because   the government is giving our tax money to rich  people who don't need so what people what you have   to understand ladies and gentlemen is it's a fixed  fight going on downtown people are not playing   fair they'll stay on tv up you need to pull  yourself up by your bootstraps no sir you don't   mean that because you're getting corporate welfare  now don't get me wrong ladies and gentlemen   if i were a billionaire and i got 40 billion  dollars in the bank and it's going to cost me   15 20 million dollars for a project but the city  is going to give me half of it don't you know i'm   going to take that half yeah i'm going to take it  i'm not stupid so they can build these buildings   and renovate them without city finances but they  have created what's called the downtown investment   authority it is a corporate welfare machine that's  what it is so i call it what it is i have a degree   in political science i know it like the back of my  hand i have a law degree i know that light in the   back of my head that's why i drafted that petition  i know what they're doing they're taking you're my   tax dollars and giving it to the wealthy and then  turn right back around and say they're pulling   themselves up by their bootstraps no you're not  you're using my tax money to do it when i come to   you and tell you you need to give a small percent  of proper share to build housing for the homes you   got the audacity to ask me what i think the city's  responsibility should be towards homelessness   it should be the same thing as it is towards  corporate welfare recipients they should not   get anything but if you want to give them that  money then you need to be setting aside five   percent now the city needs to do that on their  own i shouldn't even have to waste my time   getting petitions going around i'm having to  leave my law office and everything else go   around getting petitions to sign and here's the  other thing a lot of people don't even support it   yeah they'll tell me thank you and good pat me on  the back and all that listen that won't help them   get in the house they we need campaign donations  we need petitions signed and everything else   yeah and one of the things about social media is  it got people confused people think that if they   get on social media and say amen glory to god  and hallelujah to an issue they supported it no   it takes shoe leather to do that it takes money  to do that it takes volunteers to do stuff like   that so i appreciate all of the things that and  everything else but that won't do it we need   help to help these people amen so i'd  appreciate any kind of help you can do   how can we help you okay well actually how can  you help me help the homes go to the website   housing for the homeless campaign.com i asked them  to put it up and just go it's a petition you can   print out a petition now there's a certain way  you have to sign it and everything you know but   you can print out a petition and everything sign  it and um you know get it to me and and um you can   donate to the campaign you know if if you know uh  10 uh i'll just maybe you know 500 people give 10   that helps you know that those small amounts help  because we're gonna even if we get the petitions   we're gonna have to do a campaign to put it on  television because you know what's gonna happen   the people who don't want this to happen they're  gonna run a hundred thousand dollar media campaign   flipping the script telling you why you shouldn't  vote on something like this when all of us know   we should so go to the website and you can  do a donation through that website you can   comment through that website you can sign up as a  volunteer through that website and everything else   and learn more about about the issues but ladies  and gentlemen let me say this right here before we   get off here we are in so much trouble that people  do not understand all you have to do is do a   google search and look at homelessness in america  you'll see some chronic homelessness across the   nation that is overtaking cities and they don't  know what to do well this measure here will save   us there's nothing like this across the united  states of america no no one else has done anything   like this and it's probably because the rich  won't don't want him to do it amen and that other   website about the sentencing is technologies for  justice.com all right well thank you everyone and   uh have a great evening and great rest of the week  and uh again thank you attorney barlow thank you

2022-08-11

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