Advanced Thermal Battery Technology Ep13: Rayan Kassis

we live in a time of global transformation The Energy Futures podcast explores how we can accelerate the expansion of Clean Energy Technologies and reduce our Reliance on fossil fuels from Heating and Cooling our homes to moving around our planet and Beyond we bring together researchers scientists Business Leaders and communicators to exchange knowledge and try to answer one important question how can we create a sustainable energy future for all this podcast is produced by Energy Futures lab of Imperial College London today we're joined by Ryan ciss co-founder and CEO of Aid energy with Decades of experience in clean tech development and over 9 GW of operational projects spanning 24 countries rayan shares insights into the UK's key energ challenges the critical role of long duration storage in Grid stability and the future of renewable energy integration he also discusses Aid Energy's Innovative thermal Battery Technology which uniquely delivers both electricity and heat and it's potential to transform Global Energy Systems cool Ryan so the last for the last month I've been traveling around the whole country speaking to the many influential people within the energy industry and I asked this key question which I'm going to ask you today is what are the key challenges the UK have in the energy transition and moving towards zero carbon and one of three things keeps coming up it's either grid infrastructure distribution or batteries it's normally one of those three things yeah so I'm excited today talk about to talk about you and your company and why batteries are so important in this transition globally to Net Zero so talk to me a little bit about you and the and the company and what it is that you do so thank you for having me um I am the co-founder and CEO of Aid energy uh we're developing long duration energy storage technology so intended to be very low cost and dispatch up to 100 hours and uh I'll just give you a little bit of background I come from the power generation side of the business so for me uh of course power generation is important but the grid is number one if you don't have the proper background you can make all the plans that you want um and you simply won't reach there uh and that's been quite an issue in the UK with all the backlog of great connection permits uh to access both the medium voltage and the high voltage transmission lines so transmission is extremely important energy storage is uh a complimentary to that you need to balance larger and larger amounts of Renewables to be able to provide managing demand and Supply balance the grid but the backbone Remains The Grid um so I think that is the number one challenge it's not just a UK challenge it's a glob Global problem both National Grids how do you interconnect what is the level of interconnection and even interconnection becomes a political issue uh I've seen projects where the idea is to transfer renewable energy from very lowc cost countries to the UK uh or from very lowc cost countries uh like Australia that has abundance solar to Singapore for example there are these Mega projects that are planning and uh they always come up with uh the same complaint is that we're depending on other countries for energy needs well you're depending on your energy uh other countries for energy needs in in a fossil fuel scenario anyways um so I mean these are these are I think minor issues I think if you look at the fundamentals the great is the backbone and then uh getting a suitable power generation mix that's stable enough and that you plan appropriately for is what uh National policy should be um and I don't think the UK has been uh you know I think it's been at the leader of the pack I would say maybe it's lagged in the past 10 years but it's coming uh it's coming up strong now um Renewables is what like 40% of the national average uh if you combine it with nuclear uh Renewables it makes up the majority of the fossil fuel energy fossil fuel mix um and that's in a span of 10 years it's completely switched the fossil fuel story fossil fuels was the majority 10 years ago it isn't now so I think despite uh you know the challenges I think we're getting there um but definitely the grid needs to be strengthened uh especially if you're going to start U putting up more offshore wind plants you know those are Mega projects they're not small projects they're going to deliver at peak wind times massive amounts of energy and you need a strong grid for that um so I'm very optimistic I'm you know in terms of where the UK is going but you know the key thing is to reduce uh volatility and keep prices down at the end of the day you know so um yeah positive then I think I think in the right I mean look at the numbers 40% Renewables where it was the majority fossil fuels um and Renewables today are cheaper than than fossil fuels so from a cost point of view you're going in the right direction of course you're going to reach some limits um in terms of maximizing Renewables unless you implement batteries storage which is where battery storage becomes increasingly important um and uh yeah I mean this is a key point to to note as well is that I've been in the sector for 20 years you know when I started wind and solar was globally was nothing it was less than 2% uh it was considered too way too costly and will never get down to to the proper cost and more importantly it was considered unstable you know so me coming from that background Bas old generation when I moved to wind energy in what 2009 2010 my colleagues were they couldn't believe what I was doing said what are you doing going to wind I mean this is where this is where we're doing real impact um and you know they were doing real impact and they still are but the fact is is that wind and energy now are the cheapest sources of electricity maybe solar is a challenge here in the UK because of where we are uh but it's still delivers very low cost cost of electricity uh and the issue to maintain a a stable price um becomes batteries at the end of the day and not to pitch our business but uh and our technology but but lowering the cost of that becomes very important to deliver round trip low cost of energy okay I've touched on about two or three things there that we'll move on to in a bit so you we talked about batteries which I'm sure we're going to be talking about a lot in a bit um but we also talked about inate um the stability of grids and how grid infrastructure needs to be Paramount not Paramount but it's a Super Key important when when building when the the um the infrastructure for energy but you also touched on a couple of bits of your background and I'm going to jump on that now because I think it's really interesting taught me through sort of even from from education where you how you're educated where where you studied and then so I suppose let's go through the last sort of couple of decades and how you've arrived where you are today well I would say I'm a second generation power generation person uh my my father was in the power sector in combined cycle power plant he he actually helped me get my first job as an intern uh analyzing you know uh energy Trends uh specifically for gas turbine power plant um technology uh I started my career in application engineering my first assignment was doing heat balances for combined cycle power plants in fact it's probably the assignment that still stays with me today this is from my GE days uh just because it wasn't just heat balances how do you transfer heat balances into a technical economic financial model for a large scale uh Power Plant in that case either simple cycle or combined cycle power plants so I carry those lessons to this day regardless of the fact that I that was a very brief stint and then I moved to the commercial side and uh I was uh in sales I worked at a repair shop for some time you know looking at uh how we repair gine blades and veins and um but uh that that lesson of translating the technical to the to a technical commercial model I still used to this day in fact one of the Excel sheets that I never delete comes from these honestly these these Legends of uh technical economic uh analysis that I was working under at the time um so so that is the base load background that I came uh from uh and I think that's also a legacy that that I still carry to this day because I understand what on demand power means uh it means less headaches for The Operators and ultimately it it means that you can more or less accurately model what the cost of a power plant is going to deliver over let's say 20 years of course unless you get crazy events where uh Renewables becomes you know a huge part of the the system and you start to uh retire gas plants and their economic model falls through which is by the way the reality of what's Happening um but um yeah I think I think uh that based old mentality I still also carry to this day what we're doing is trying to mimic base load capacity by combining intermittent renewable energy source with a stabilizing factor which is energy storage so uh I personally see the combination as a single generating unit um you know at the project level people are going to say well this is this is solar this is wind but the the what we look at is how how to mimic and how to replicate the effect that what the grid needs which is stable power um that uh you can dispatch on and off so so over your career you've worked it GE General Electric General Electric uh Vestas so yeah and uh Eola MH what what were what were the key lessons that you've learned through that period of working for those ganizations what can you take away well I mentioned GE and I think GE was uh you know coming off uh you know as as uh my first job basically uh it gave me the grounding of a large organization you know how how multinational organizations work the importance of uh services so having a very robust Services organization is critical uh for both for a company but also for the functionality that you're providing um so it gave me that Global U cross boundary Outlook uh I mean we were we were working on Project it didn't matter the geography you know uh somewhere in uh Indonesia somewhere in uh in Arizona uh a lot were in the in the Middle East so um and then you see how the service centers and and and how sales organization ation work uh what's the crossover between the technology functions and the commercial side so that was very valuable and but and when I joined I mean GE was you know a nearly 100 years company you know that's gone through you know a huge growth and U um so that opened my eyes to to that side uh moving to Vestas did a lot of things for me uh which is first of all it got me out of my comfort zone um all of a sudden you know after talking base load power plants I had to actually explain to Regulators to operators to customers you know what is this that your wind energy like how does that fit you know and this is exactly what I said wind and energy wind and solar were 2% of the global generation mix so you said when at the beginning of this conversation before we started recording that when you told your friends that you're working in they thought you'd gone mad they thought I'd gone mad they said why would you do that you know like what was what what um uh we're we're doing real impact here and we're building stuff and you're going to do wind I mean there things that move around um and uh but I was just attracted with uh with renewable energy um and uh it was uh yeah I mean eventually you know let's say I proved them wrong you know wind energy was on a trajectory uh but it's kind of instrumental in technology and just how organizations work because I joined uh wind and this is where I saw an organization that was growing so I could see the gaps and I can you know coming from G I can see what they were doing right and what they were doing kind of what they need to focus on um but I think it was a quite well-run organization um but at the time we were talking about solar uh PV and saying no chance way too expensive you know customers I mean that's why uh you know it's inevitable that people are in their silos uh it's just it's just a human nature but um I mean solar completely surpassed wind energy now I mean wind energy is still very relevant uh and low cost but this is where for me it gave me the perspective that just pay attention to what's going on and at what point during your career did you start looking at batteries and thinking this is this is the area that I really want to sort of get in now and and I suppose just to follow on that at what point were you were you when you decided this is actually I think there's a business opportunity here well um I mean batteries are no-brainer you know and I've also been a developer of projects you know wind and solar projects so I've seen the transition initially it was governments and entities were issuing tenders for let's say a solar energy or wind energy and batteries weren't really an issue then because they weren't really part of the conversation wind and solar were so minuscule that it was just dropping a bit of energy into the bucket um so it wasn't a real concern and then starting I would say around 2014 2015 Tesla started to uh you know Market their their battery packs uh they were I think they were quite instrumental in kind of pushing that envelope in terms of what utility scale that y can do um so that is where we started to see tenders that had shifted now they were like yes we want a wind plant but you need to give us battery functionality so you can see that transition in the in the strategy of The Operators who have to deal with all this this strain on the grid that wait a minute yes we want wind wind energy but we also want a stable system so uh so I didn't it wasn't real jump it was a no-brainer to do that um but uh I guess what got me into what we're doing is uh I'm attracted by low cost things uh I've been around the world I like uh engineering designs that are that Mak sense but they have to be translatable uh otherwise they might be nice in let's let's be uh perfectly fine they might be nice in countries with high incomes with banking facilities because they're high capex high complicated but they're not going to make a dent in Impact so for me having that that that's why I like solar energy you know you democratize energy someone in in a village in the middle of nowhere could put solar panels and have some electricity so that was an attraction to me and really what got us to start Aid energy was um my experience with esolar which was basically uh tackling the Holy Grail of Renewables which is how do you create dispatchable energy and what esolar was doing they were doing concentrated solar systems for tower-based uh projects meaning you have an array of mirrors that concentrate the intensity of the sun sunlight direct sunlight onto a central receiver super hot um burning hot that Central receiver is basically a heat exchange system and it generates vast amounts of steam but what you can do with it and this is where the Holy Grail of Renewables is is you can heat in the same receiver you can heat salt molten salt Dirt Cheap very high energy dense salt and store that molten salt in Vats so that when there's no sun you convert that molten salt heat into steam so driving the same system so that was for me that was attractive coming from wind it's like here's a here's a system that can deliver what you're doing but can deliver on demand unfortunately CSP is not um it's very Geographic based you can't just put it anywhere it needs very pure direct sunlight uh of high intensity so places like Chile and some areas of Morocco uh but otherwise the performance doesn't add up uh for the cost that that that it requires so it's a very high cack system well you mentioned Chile and Morocco is that some the weather or is that to do with the salt as well or is it no no that's just the that's just the geographic conditions uh in some parts of Morocco and Chile Chile is actually the highest uh you have extremely high direct sunlight that is shining for a large period of time during the year and there's no particles in the in the air it's clear as clear as can be uh obviously the clearer the better so you have a few areas in in the in uh United States uh Middle East Middle East uh there are a few projects in the Middle East actually uh Mazar I mean not Mazar is it Mazar they have one of the largest concentrated solar plants uh I think it's the planet is one gigatt uh not Tower base they have different uh technology but Morocco has led the pack as well at quite very low cost of electricity uh I think it was like 12 cents per kilowatt hour again very geographically based very high capex Solutions but you can deliver very complex systems you're talking about millions of square meters that that you need to have mirrors everywhere you need to account for how do you clean the mirrors CU it has to be you know very clear um you know and then the question is how large are these mirrors uh es solar was doing very small mirrors to tackle that same problem of you know infrastructure others said no you have to go big mirrors you know easier to clean and all that stuff so everyone had a different approach um but uh yeah it was uh it was there that I got the kind of the the the that understanding that I mean molon salt is very mot salt storage is extremely cheap talking about salts you know that you can Source pretty much anywhere um but what do you do with it you know can you uh okay I mean traditionally most of thermal storage now is to deliver steam or to run a steam cycle you know that's kind of the bulk the 95% of what is called thermal storage now is you store you convert it to electricity and then uh you either augment an existing power cycle so hereby kind of reducing their dependency of fossil fuels by putting in extra steam or you actually do a steam cycle yourself so bit complicated systems because you can't just do small micro micro steam you can but it's going to be the numbers don't really add up was it a a was there a light bulb pardon p a light bulb moment or was this a gradual process of many years of extracting Tech and Innovation and seeing things and eventually arriving it's place where you thought yeah this is there's an opportunity here well from a company from a company it was a single conversation with uh one of my my co-founder uh OE who introduced me to the possibility of using the photovoltaic effect in a m s uh kind of medium and that kind of opened my eyes but I didn't uh and that goes back to my first lessons with GE I needed to get the numbers right you know so we did a whole exercise that took months to kind of look at the numbers look at the projections where can we be can it really be a low cost system uh or are there hidden things that uh that we're not aware of and essentially that is uh what made us start the company is that uh we were convinced that we can do it and uh we brought another founder co-founder who was actually the head of application engineering at esolar who's a thermal storage expert and a a power plant software expert and uh we all hit it off in terms of both both personally but also from a technology point of view you can deliver uh if we deliver what we think we can deliver uh you know you're talking about a a system whose capex is multiple times cheaper than the cheapest lithium battery uh out there you know so in terms of accessibility to to a lot of areas of the world capex is extremely important um so explain to me capex what capital so the cost of the equipment right the cost of equipment is is much lower sorry I'm using indust that's all right no that's fine I'm using Excel sheet uh terminology I kind of knew what you meant but I thought we better explain it for the audience and actually this leads me on to my next point because we're definitely going to I'd like to talk more about the organization and and your Founders in a bit and we also talk about undaunted the program that you that you've been on um but before we do that you said something really interesting about dispatching energy from batteries and the grid now our audience will vary from people from sort of lower Baseline knowledge to probably more technical knowledge but just for the audience that are listening to this in terms of batteries grids and dispatching energy let's just talk about that maybe explain how the grid works you can do it in the UK or any or or globally whatever makes sense where batteries sit in that and how energy is dispatched across a network or grid well there's many ways and this is depending on the grid itself what uh you know the strength of the grid uh what are the power what are the generation sources on this grid but energy storage Works in with different functions so if you're talking about at the source so let's say you have a very large scale wind uh uh project and it is I don't know 100 200 megaw uh and at Peak capacity so the peak capacity of wind might not match with the demand on the grid uh and in many cases The Operators will tell the wind uh uh suppliers that sorry we don't take your energy so it's basically completely lost energy uh so that's a that's one function so kind of Market driven but also demand driven energy storage needs where you have energy storage near the source of generation that's absorbing the extra energy and dispatching it uh when demand catches up with uh so you're not losing so that's a lot more applicable for wind but also you see that in solar plants where you can't control when when the sun is at its peak and you know demand and Supply shifts from uh from hour to hour day and night day and night uh so that's one function of energy storage other function of energy storage is grid stability where you have too many renewable energy plants uh operators in many countries uh Place batteries to kind of manage the distribution of energy along the grid so lower frequency fluctuations um and uh and then you have on the uh on the demand side um this is partly driven Market driven so uh arbitraging uh when costs are very high versus when costs are very low so many Industries and companies um look to to to maximize the economic benefit of that so when prices are low they'd rather store that energy uh and when prices kick back up then they dispatch the their energy storage ideally that the the round trip cost of that dispatching is less than the peak of of storage um so that's kind of the the general applications and then there are micro grid applications so areas where the grid is weak and or your remote uh you're always going to need some sort of micro grid um and this is where energy storage combined with another source of generation uh can provide that same uh on demand power meaning you size solar plant probably you size it you know uh you oversize it and then you store that energy so that in the evening or there's no sun you can deliver electricity for whatever application whe whether it's a community or a university or or an industrial plant that needs that okay brilliant that's no that's that's much much clearer I know there's only so much you can say because you're still obviously a startup and the technology is it's still in development but if you could explain to me what what batteries are we currently using across the board what are the challenges with those batteries and and how are you providing a new solution well um first of all uh so solar and wind today are what like they're going to reach 17% of global electricity production by the end of this year so uh this has driven a huge uh tension and increase in energy storage capacity worldwide um so rapidly replacing fossil fuels for peaking applications uh and many of the other applications that I that I mentioned um and this number is set to so wind and solar is 17 it's set to Triple by 2050 according to the pledges the pledges that have been made to decarbonize the most viable plan is to increase this cheap uh solar and wind energy there's no other there's a lot of ideas but this is the the only concrete plan and to achieve that you need to all the targets are in the terawatts so the latest uh forecast was the previous forecast was 450 gigs uh that was a few years ago and because of how the market reacted and this tells you how the market is a reactive market and the sectors reacting maret the the targets today the G7 announced 1 .7 ter so sixfold increase by 2030 it's just around the corner and uh by most estimates uh by 2040 uh it it should reach up to 2.5 ter to put it into perspective that's 10 times more than all the energy storage available in the market today and the market today is dominated by one technology lithium ion batteries which of course they're vastly better than burning fossil fuels but they're they have they have limitations they're a short duration solution uh that has supply chain issues I mean uh you know you have to Source it you have to mine this this material I think Elon Musk had said uh that lithium was actually lithium was a misnomer that the lithium is like salt on a solid the rest is Cobalt and other material that all that all that you have to Source in you know different areas of the the globe and they have inherent safety issues there those are solvable but these These are the issues uh with that you mind and um and this is where longer duration storage is becoming increasingly important uh you know if you're anticipating a market that's three times more solar and wind if you're going to BAS B it on 17% yes let's stick with lithium I but as you increase you do need to absorb that vast amount of energy so that when so that you manage demand and Supply um and this is where a lot of attention is starting to kind of uh be placed on on longer duration storage uh I think the uh the most recent Target from the Department of energy in the United States was they mapped out several long duration energy storage Pathways as a order of national priority with a Target that one of them has to one or more of them have to reach a cost of storage of uh 0.5 uh dollar per kilowatt hour by 2030 and they they did a good mapping of all the different options um and to put it into perspective the cost of storage today from lithium ion is and any other technology is probably triple that and that's only for short duration it's kind of like adding Legos uh you know with short duration if you want longer duration you add capacity but that doubles your price basically so you don't really achieve long duration uh capability um and this is what what we're this is what is driving what we're doing is that we're dealing with thermal storage medium that you can get anywhere you know it's it's a rock salt I mean not a simple you don't put the just plain rock salt into our system but it's uh one of the highest energy if you heat it it's very high energy dense and we know how to contain it uh and it's a solid State engine that just sits there absorbs power heats up then it brights uh emits a bright light and we convert that to electricity using our system so we're currently stay at scale space in White City uh and this is where you're running the business from where does the the the the clever fun stuff happen where does the technical the building the testing the experimenting where where's that being done at the moment that's a good point we're looking for space okay uh we're building a prototype now uh all the fun stuff is either in the lab uh upstairs or uh on the drawing board uh we have a full team of Engineers that uh both internally but our wider network of uh uh companies that we work with uh that are designing key aspects of the tech and uh when we build it uh this is actually a subject now was you know it might be too it's a small system as a prototype but it might be too big to put in uh in the labs here so we're uh we're kind of looking at different options and and it might it might be able to to to fit here okay and and in terms of an MVP when do you think which a minimal minimal viable product we what what's your sort of timeline on that yeah it's a funny one um you know in terms of an MVP you can Define it the way you want it but for us having MVP is two years down the line for me at least having an MVP is a system that is operating that we're happy with and most importantly has all the certifications the industry certifications that we need to deploy in the market so for me that's the MVP but um if on a on an optimistic day I'll tell you we have an MVP now you know all the subcomponents are well known and we just have to build it so it's a it's a good question but if you want a prudent answer our MVP is uh when we've had a unit running for some time and we get the final certifications which we are working with all the certifying bodies you know just from an early stage to make sure we cross the teas and make sure that we're building you know something that is well understood and can be verifiable through operating data well when we do part two we we can you'll walk me around your new lab and show me some products you you mentioned two other Founders let's let's talk about the three of you H what's the dynamic who's what skill sets have you got how did you work together who are they well uh all all the Weber is uh is my co-founder uh we met at uh Ben Builder program carbon 13 we're pretty much the well there a few other power people but uh that combination of thermal my thermal storage background and uh his expertise in multi-junction PV kind of started to get us uh you know putting together the numbers um [Music] and you know it was uh we kind of formed it with basically one condition is if if we all three of us give a thumbs up then we'll just form the company and that's pretty much what happened um you know Mike he was the head of uh systems engineering and application engineering at es solar he saw it from from nothing from from scratch to building several uh hundred million projects one in India one in uh Australia so he's done the whole R&D process and um one of the first things we spoke about uh when he agreed to to join us was that me personally I wanted to set a commercial Rd strategy that avoids um rabbit holes it's very easy when you get funding to start doing pet projects and uh you know uh I didn't feel we had enough time U and I think one analogy that we've talked about is let's design this as if this is going to this is going to you're putting on a spaceship and this is the only system that's going to you know get you going so that's kind of uh that's kind of what we're we're doing you know we have an experienced team that isn't prone to like jump to conclusions but we're doing I think we're doing things in just a a a uh with a good focus without doing you know too many distractions and essentially once we once we design and and build the first one we're designing it to be a dumb system we we want it to be as simple as dumb as possible but to get to simple and dumb as possible we have to really focus on every single thing that can go wrong in the system so that's that's uh that's basically what we're doing yeah it's an interesting you have interesting phases of the roll out of this product see this is the most crucial time getting the getting it right getting it safe getting it into a good working capacity but then then the phase two the roll out is going to be a whole you know a whole other game uh in that I'd like to um as we start to bring this conversation to a close there's a couple of things I want to draw on I think we should talk about undaunted that's how we were introduced the um through the Grantham Institute tell me a little bit about undaunted how did you hear about it and what's your been your experience being on the program uh well uh it's been uh so we heard about unded through uh the carbon 13 cohorts some of them had joined and when we looked at the program uh we felt it was a very good fit uh they were uh taking companies that had just recently started that have a clear clean tech impact and giving them a lot of the tools that you need to uh look out for when you're starting a business uh you know um and it it can go from things like mental health uh which I think is extremely important people should not burn out and I've spoken about this in the past um you know pace yourself but also you know fundamentals on how teams work uh what are the key things to put a company on the right track uh accounting practices uh so really getting giving you kind of the feel of how to operate as as a a maturing company uh and you know companies change you know from when you have two Founders or three founders to building a team and the dynamic changes you need to be uh uh aware of that and embrace it and and have open Communications and ultimately Foster Innovation you know if someone feels that they cannot speak then you don't have Innovation you know so this is what we we try to build in in the company I I like the fact that you touched on the emotional factors that come with you know with a bootstrap startup like you know and a lot of people will tell you it's not a walk in the park it comes with its own challenges and stresses and you know trying you've got to stay fit you got to stay healthy and you got to you've got to have a a good solid game plan not just a business plan but a game plan in terms of your physical mental social and cultural needs that you need to to get through to the the different stages so that that that's a really important thing and and I think that that's a real plus of the uh the program as my last question to you now is then is what advice can you give to any uh clean tech climate Tech startups that want to work in the energy sector maybe have got a a good idea got the you know the beginning of a product what advice could you give them well the energy sector is a quite complicated sector and uh it is what previously wasn't very uh Innovation friendly I would say well Innovation was was contained by large multinationals this has changed dramatically with solar and wind and I credit both Technologies kind of giving ideas and giving entrepreneurs the possibility uh you know look at the entire life cycle uh learn Financial technical Financial modeling really understand uh but that's just the headlines I think the key thing is to build experience um you know with uh either generation companies or uh energy storage Tech and uh you know listen ask questions you know get a full picture um and look at the trends uh really uh but ultimately you know the the the real advice I would give is unless it's a pet project that uh you know some obscure entity is going to be interested in look at things that uh are going to improve uh lives by lowering cost of energy by stabilizing the grid by providing real Services um you know both in terms of getting a company started you do need that that Focus but also that we are an infrastructure sector you know and I don't want to sound uh you know uh giving inspirational message or anything but uh part of that comes with responsibility that you have to design things to be worth your time as well that have utility to to to users um so Define what that utility is and um I personally happen to be attracted to lowcost systems because I just see that you need things out in the market to make a dent yeah just to kind of back that the having one in Industry one having regular having good connections with industry people that are working within energy that you can run your ideas past can kind of get a real insight to what's going on where markets are moving but I I also like the fact you touched upon is always having that end user in mind you know in terms of the consumption of side of things in terms of cost and convenience and and how people are using energy at home now and in the future that's amazing thank you ran I'm incredible um Ryan if people want to find out more about you and uh Aid is a did I say aid aid energy Aid energy what where should they go where where can they find out more about you they can uh follow us on LinkedIn uh they can look at our website they can reach out anytime uh we're always happy to have conversations uh with like-minded individuals um and um we're trying not to say too much on our website um but eventually we will have you know more more content that's it and looking forward to part two we I'll come and revisit we'll invite you to the the uh the uh when we install the the Prototype at least you canect see it running we'll be there we'll be there n Futures Li BR just want to say thank you for your time it's been really insightful I've learned loads um yeah we'll put all the details in the show notes and yeah thank you for time really appreciate it thank you thank you for tuning in to the Energy Futures podcast here at Energy Futures lab we are dedicated to addressing Global energy challenges through pioneering research Innovation and advocacy to learn more about us and the exciting projects we are working on visit our website and follow us on social media if you enjoyed this episode please like and share and subscribe to stay up toate with our latest content [Music]

2024-12-21 01:48

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