welcome back it's time for viewpoint now and today we delve into south korea's efforts to promote nuclear energy both here at home and abroad for more on that i have professor chang dong wook from chilean university professor zhang welcome it's good to have you here thank you for inviting me here okay i also have xeon lights founder of emergency reactor live on the line in the uk xeon it's a pleasure to have you with us thank you so much for having me we'll start here then professor chong let's start then with a few words and the impact of russia's invasion of ukraine on europe's energy surprise well uh as you can see uh in the uh news coverage about the russia and the ukraine war you know it triggers the the issues of energy security in nearly in 50 years back in 1970s i think uh there was a you know oil crisis due to the uh you know conflict in the middle east area and after that you know the energy supply in the world was almost has been you know you know stable but uh in this time the war between russia and ukraine you know it caused the concern about the gas supply so that you know our secular security becomes you know our top issues in the uh energy policy these days yeah right and against that backdrop zeon nuclear power is gaining greater support in europe as europe itself seeks to have independence from russian supplies now that being said in terms of total electricity production over there in the uk how much does nuclear power account for and what is the public perception with regard to nuclear power that in the uk in the uk we obtain 17 of our electricity from nuclear energy so it's not a lot we rely very heavily on fossil fuel imports and indeed we are starting to worry about energy security because of the um invasion of ukraine the perception of nuclear here is very positive now well over half of the population support nuclear energy but that's actually changed quite a lot in the last two years the tide has shifted this is partly due to rising electricity prices that people are just really struggling to afford to pay their bills and also because of the russian invasion and even in germany now two-thirds of people support nuclear energy so it's happening across europe this shift right i see professor zhang in spain last week president yoon sargyal sought to actively promote south korea's nuclear energy technology to his counterparts from poland and the czech republic just to mention a few how do you assess these efforts well uh if you look at the uh nuclear market in the world it's something like the uh world cup game you know uh what i mean is that it's not a competition among the private companies it's it's something like the competition among the countries okay if you look at the uh news media news media you know how they you know uh uh you know broadcast the uh the nuclear deals then it's almost a time news so that the uh you know something like that the world came as i said and um looking at the nuclear market uh in these days the uh the suppliers are only five countries you know uh korea and u.s and the france that's a western world and the other part is the russia and china only five countries they can you know supply the uh you know a nuclear power plant so that it's uh it's uh you know uh you know a country to country game so that it's a it's it's kind of the uh president of business so it's quite natural you know uh even for the us and the france you know president they come up to you know to you know negotiate or sell the nuclear power plant so that you know uh his active you know uh you know uh rule in the uh you know nuclear market deals is quite natural you know and you know uh you know uh the countries like the czech and poland and netherlands even netherlands you know as i said only three countries in the western world so that is quite natural for them to have interest in our you know you know you know our capability to supply the nuclear power plant yeah right and zion speaking within your capacity as a scholar then what can you share with us about the perception that in europe or in the uk with regard to south korea's nuclear energy venture and perhaps its capacity my understanding is that the last government that you had wanted to phase out nuclear so it was really big news here when your government changed and we found that you had a pro nuclear candidate instead i also saw a report that said that phasing out nuclear would increase electricity costs there by five times so this is really in our news now we're very much paying attention to it because everybody is worried about soaring electricity prices and wondering you know what are other countries doing and we're looking at places like south korea and your plans to build four new reactors by 2030 we're also looking at places like france where they've had a lot of nuclear reactors for a long time and they're now building more um but yeah we've i've seen very positive reporting about it here especially on how quickly you're aiming to build them because it does take a long time here so i think a lot of people are interested in you know what's happening over there that's making it a lot more efficient than in the uk to build these nuclear power plants right and professor i understand they have been remarkable advances on nuclear power technologies and small modular reactors are the latest innovation that being said could you tell us a bit more about them well uh let me tell you a little bit about uh more about the uh you know our capacity about the uh uh you know uh nuclear power plant as a supplier you know uh as i said uh looking at the uh suppliers we have only three countries in western world you know france and the u.s and korea and among three countries the uh the only suppliers who meet the uh you know uh schedule and the budget boundary is the korea the only one okay looking at the francs and the u.s and the their you know uh records of construction is quite you know cannot be comparable with us so that that's the if uk is concerned about the schedule and the cost then you should get the you know korean you know nuclear industry okay that's one thing that i have to say and um smalls you know uh the market for the smr has not uh has not been opened yet you know still we are waiting but it comes very close to us for example you know the fourth runner of smr is the u.s company new scale they say that they're gonna build and you know uh collect the greed before the end of this decade so within next five over six years uh they are planning to build and complete the fourth unit so it's very close and even in uk the rules rule is uh that there's the company which leads the small development in the uk they already announced that you know they're gonna in the pr they're gonna get into the process to select the factory uh to manufacture and you know build their smr and um originally you know the uk rogers they said they're going to build the first small in the middle of uh middle of the uh 2030s but um they recently announced that they're going to try to build the first euro sermon in the uk before the end of this decade too so it's very close to us and even in korea uh we we will launch a new project or a project a development project to build more economic and and the safer smr you know within this decade too for the technology advertisement in sms right so many countries that they are looking at sms and the competition is very fierce the competition very fierce and we will see who's gonna who's going to be the winner yeah right i see and zeon some say these small nuclear reactors may create 30 times more radioactive waste what do you say we always hear these nonsense claims about waste i have heard this claim before um it ignores many factors including the fact that most waste can be recycled france germany belgium switzerland already recycled their nuclear waste and there's absolutely no evidence that smrs would create more waste um i think people really need to focus on the fact that even if there was 30 times more the waste from from nuclear or spent fuel as we call it is very well managed and it's never harmed anyone whereas fossil fuel waste is stored in the earth's atmosphere and is causing climate change and also many deaths from air pollution so we should also keep that in perspective right i see and professor zhang beyond technology then here in south korea there remains public concern though about the safety of nuclear power plants how do you respond to these concerns all right now let me answer to your questions i'd like to correct your question about the radioactive waste of the small modular reactors the amount of radioactives from the smr is exactly same as the large reactors because they are based on the same technologies so that uh no more waste which is generating from sms at all you know the amount is the same but the uh radio experience still uh you know is making the radioactive waste and we have to dispose it safely the fourth generation reactors the fourth generation reactors it has a capability to reduce the radioactive waste but it takes a little more time to make it deployed in the electric market but uh i like to collect that the the smaller the amount of the related radioactive waste which is the same as the large reactors no more no more you know uh radioactive at all right i see thank you for clarifying that all right and then let me get back to your question about the safeties you know uh the safety of nuclear power plants you know everybody you know most of the people has a trauma about the safety of a nuclear power plant because of the chernobyl and the focusing accidents like that but um let me say this one you know uh you know uh rather than explaining about the scientifically you know the uh scientific pieces about the safety nuclear power plant i like to talk about the uh taxonomy the european technique you know when they decide to include when they decide to include their nuclear energy in the taxonomy the first thing that they look at was the uh the safety of a nuclear power plant and the conclusion that they found was that the safety concern the the danger of nuclear power plant is no more significant compared with the other energy sources all the energy sources they have some you know dangerous and some bad effect on the environment and the compared with them you know nuclear power we cannot say that it is more dangerous or the uh more harmful things like that so that there's a conclusion uh which made european communities to decide uh include decide to include the nuclear energy in the taxonomy and today they're going to make a vote tonight they're going to make in korean they're going to make the uh you know a vote on the uh whether they're going to accept european councils proposed to accept nuclear as the uh you know uh you know environmental friendly energy or not so i like to ask the idea my your you know the european partner whether uh what's your expectation about that default you will expect that it will be let's stay with that right man staying with what professor chung has just said could you shed some light on the ongoing dispute over the european commission's proposal to classify gas and nuclear power plants as green in the eu's taxonomy which i understand refers to a list of investments that can be marketed as sustainable as mentioned by professor chung that's correct and it's actually really important what happens with the taxonomy because it determines what gets funded so you've got all these countries trying to meet their net zero goals and we want them to be able to easily fund nuclear energy and if it's not included in the taxonomy then it's just not going to be as easy for them to move forward with that so it's really important but there's a problem which is that nuclear and gas have been lumped together and there's a single vote on that so obviously these are two very different sources of energy gas we should be phasing out that's what the science shows we should be relying less on that and we should be building more clean energy like renewables and nuclear but because they've been lumped together the vote is either do you want gas and nuclear do you not want gas and nuclear this is very problematic because they're two very very different types of energy gas is very polluting and nuclear is very clean and has a small land footprint so what's happening is that actually a lot of the green groups have lobbied very heavily to include gas in there because they want it as a transition fuel and a lot of the kind of environmental groups in europe are very against nuclear power this has been just a traditional thing going right back to the 60s 1960s and 70s where they've been lobbying against it very heavily so they're continuing that lobby lobbying and especially groups like greenpeace and the green parties over here very very strong lobbyist against nuclear so that has been happening for some time and everybody's you know watching and waiting now to see what will happen i'm hoping that they do get included i think that they will get included but i think there will be lots of um you know small print to prevent um nucleating from being built easily so it's likely that you know there will be restrictions that it will be passed but there will be restrictions but it's a real shame that gas will also be given the go ahead if nuclear is i really don't think those two things should have been confused right i see professor back here in south korea on tuesday the youth administration unveiled its energy policy direction now what are some of the plans that caught your attention well uh actually you know uh what they announced in uh tuesday uh the you know the energy party directions in the new government i didn't find any uh something new i didn't find any something new but because the uh the energy project directions of the uh june 7 years government was already you know set up during the presidential race in the last year they already served the the direction of the energy policy and um you know uh what they announced in the tuesday was just a conforming process to implement the presidential race pledge into the government you know official you know uh you know a policy so that uh what i found is that you know uh all the pledges uh that he made was you know uh implemented in the official you know government uh policy so uh nothing uh was uh new to me but but uh what i'm what i expected to see is that you know uh of a government plan for electricity a demand and supply you know every three years government should set up a plan uh to you know uh how to supply the uh the necessary electricity you know and um uh in that plan you know uh they have to uh set up the uh energy mix test of this energy mix up to the year 2038 15 years you know a time of play time of uh frame so that you know if you look at that you know that plant then you will see the details the details of the uh how many new nuclear power plants will be introduced and what's going to be the portion of renewable energies things like that so we have to look at that you know a specific plan uh before that you know the direction only looking at the direction you know uh it's you know what they already said so that uh we i i'm you know uh i'm willing to see the uh the uh the basic you know electricity electricity supply and demand plan that will show the details yeah right zeon ultimately energy alternatives then like nuclear power seek a path to zero carbon emissions which some believe can be achieved in the absence of nuclear power what are your thoughts my thoughts are that people can believe whatever they like but the science tells us very clearly that we need nuclear decarbonis the scientific consensus is that we need a combination of nuclear energy and renewables to hit net zero targets there is no large electricity grid in the world that has been able to reach zero carbon emissions without nuclear energy and without some renewables now this is to do with base load power where you can build lots of wind turbines and solar panels but when it's not sunny or windy especially somewhere like you know in the uk it's not very sunny sunny for a lot of the year then you need a backup capacity and that is the base load power which is nuclear power at the moment it's fossil fuels or it's nuclear power we heavily rely on fossil fuels so we need to replace that with nuclear energy when i say that there's a scientific consensus that shows that we need nuclear energy to decarbonize that consensus is very um you know strongly evidence-based it comes from reports like the intergovernmental panel on climate change that's the ipcc that create the reports that show us that climate change is happening and that we need to deal with it those same reports say that we need to build lots of nuclear something like twice the amount that we're aiming for at the moment to me and net zero targets and the united nations has also produced a report saying we need nuclear to decarbonize and so has the international energy agency these are really important scientific bodies that we should not ignore just as they're saying that we need to take action on emissions they are helping to tell us what the solutions are and nuclear has always been one of the biggest solutions that we absolutely need to make sure that we follow the science on that right and talking about science professor south korea's pledged to mark a significant drop in carbon emissions by the year 2030 and then go for zero carbon emissions by the year 2050 how feasible is this plan well uh very difficult it's not that easy that is not easy at all but because the young government they decided to include the nuclear energy as a partner to the renewable energies it will be easier easier than previous government you know uh directions but still uh it's it's never been you know it's not going to be an you know easy problem at all and it's the same to the uk and the other countries too looking at the uh germany you know they announced the uh you know uh you know carbon neutrality and so they announced the phase of nuclear energy but then they're now trying to you know you know restart their cold power plant because of energy security issues so they're very difficult issues but we have to go we have to go that way there is no way other than that right and back on the nuclear issue nuclear energy xeon has a very long history over in the uk i understand the first commercial electricity from nuclear energy was produced that in the uk could you tell us a bit about their ventures that's correct yes it was it was originally created here we have a very proud legacy of um you know scientists and and atomic energy over here it's sort of ironic that we've been against building it for so long but that's really shifted and all kind of all of our major parties now support building more nuclear energy but just on the point of germany you know that is a very interesting case study because what they did was phase out their nuclear power plants they said we're going to be net zero we're going to get rid of coal and we're going to just build lots of renewables and they spent billions and billions of euros building lots of renewables and what happened is they had no base load power they they'd shut down the nuclear power plant so now they're firing up coal and then the ukrainian invasion happened that the invasion of ukraine happened and they realized this so and the whole world has realized they're so heavily dependent on fossil fuels all the different fossil fuels gas coal um oil from russia and now they're desperately trying to wean off and they actually got a 60 increase of electricity costs to the consumer so germans are really struggling they're worrying about winter they're actually running out of wood to burn that's how bad it is there at the moment and even ukraine has stepped in and said that they will supply them with nuclear energy because they have a clean reliable supplies it's really ironic but at the moment all pressure is on germany to reopen their nuclear power plants because three of them are still functioning and they're in the process of being decommissioned but there was a report that said they could still be reopened but they still aren't doing it so it's really um it's really interesting to see how the legacy of nuclear is in different countries that there's a country that's really against nuclear and you can see what's happened as as the result of that and there's other countries like france which has really good energy security very pro-nuclear and now uk which is trying to follow in the footsteps of france by building more reactors right i see all right xeon thank you so much for shedding light on that and professor chang here in the studio thank you very much for your time and your thoughts thank you
2022-07-08