welcome to the CyborgNest podcast a series of discussions that explore human enhancement innovative technologies and the impacts that they have on humanity the earth and our future on today's podcast we speak to Natasha Vita More about the transformation of the human and her personal experience of illness which inspired her to research theories and practices which could improve the human condition otherwise known as transhumanism hello everybody i'm Liviu Babitz is the co-founder of CyborgNest. at CyborgNest we create new senses for humans to be able to experience the reality in an enhanced way and this is our first podcast today and we have the pleasure of speaking with Natasha Vita More and for those that don't know who natasha is if there is anyone like that so dr Natasha Vita More is the founder of humanity plus lab and the executive director of humanity plus she is a futurist leader in a wide range of experiences across the fields of science design and technology she focuses on the ethical use of technology and evidence-based science for addressing the topics of transhumanisms such as healthy life extension ai and human enhancements in 1983 natasha wrote a transhumanist manifesto which discussed the possibility of overcoming disease and extending lifespan as an innovator she designed the first future body prototype introducing the metabrain she appears in more than 2000 televised documentaries published in numerous articles and books natasha welcome to our first pod podcast this is so exciting to have you with us thank you and congratulations for your lift off yes yes it's exciting listen so we we you know we are a company and and one of the things that we are trying to break is the barrier between the company and the people out there right because you go and buy products from from companies and there is a name but you don't know the people you never hear them talking there is no like a conversation so we try to break that barrier into you know i we always say we are not called CyborgNest for nothing but this whole idea of being part of a nest is is really important for us so thank you for joining and being our first guest is uh it's an honor and a pleasure and i want to start with a simple question uh for for everybody you know people walk out and about have a normal life and i don't know go to a job go to the supermarket and all that and then they come home and they see an article and they see transhumanism and they are like what the hell are these guys talking about so can you give us like in in few seconds for those that don't know what that is what is transhumanism as far as you see it thank you for asking this question because it is an important question in its simplest form transhumanism is a science and a philosophy that specifically refers to transformation all life forms transform over the millennia and this transformation can be traced back through chemistry through physics through archaeology and evolutionary biology transhumanism is within the era where biological science has uncovered genetics and unraveled hereditary in our dna and also uh developed computer technology which has brought about augmented intelligence made us smarter and then really increased our memory by leaps and bounds as a philosophy transhumanism questions existence knowledge and values and this is normal for a philosophy that's what philosophies do have a worldview it takes a look at what hinders the well-being of people or humanity and this pertains largely to the human condition so then the question is what is the human condition and what are the problems there are many benefits to the human condition being here with you is a extraordinary benefit using this vehicle this platform and looking at the digitality around us in communication and transportation but there are problems disease and aging overcoming that mental and cognitive attitudes that cause prejudices and hatreds and even wars and socioeconomic systems that interfere with the uh the distribution of products and processes through channels of delivery as well as creating divides so bottom line understanding these problems that we face is what transhumanism does as a worldview and it is proactive in looking at ways to solve some of these problems and it's it's not an easy task to be sure many people over time have tried to solve these problems but we must continue to and that's what transhumanists focus on looking at aging disease what cures can there be how to extend the human lifespan create well-being for all take a look at the ecology the environment we live in so that it is a synergistic healthy environment for all life forms and to move away from the polarization of uh knowledge ideas and distribution of knowledge you wanted to know how i became involved in this and it's you know each person has their own short story but i just wanted to answer your first question for you so if you want to know how i became involved i'll answer that afterwards or at a later time no it's uh uh we can actually both of us share the experience because because uh for me as as uh most of the things in my life it was an eclectic kind of journey that led me into it so we can we can touch about it in a second i just want to summarize the first answer because a lot of people you know they watch movies they see stuff they read articles and you know the media is there to sell and to create to shock right and to into whatever so they managed to create that that image that basically what people like yourself or ourselves or other people that are in the field basically what we want is to turn people into the terminator and and you laugh exactly and that's my that's my my reaction as well but i just want to to kind of put it clearly on the table and to hear your opinion about people that make that connection between what you've just said and the terminator which is their direct link to what we do you know what's interesting about language and communication it could be easily obfuscated and terms used in ways that aren't what they really meant in the first place and that isn't to disrespect the evolution of ideas which is what we need to grow but words have meanings for example your product is cyborg nest and cyborg was coined by manfred klein and nathan klein to mean an appendage to the biological body for space exploration but that term got used differently in science fiction where it became something that was associated with a dystopian or dystopic villain like a terminator or many others darth vader for example so there's a tremendous amount of characters in science fiction that represent a cyborg in a negative sense rather than looking at cyborg as part of human enhancement or augmentation another area is within postmodernist studies and academics the rhetoric of cyborg turned it into a feminist type of political polarization and that is not what cyborg really is in fact cyborg is an appendage to the body and it's seen various ways well i have to say the same for transhuman the term transhuman is a human in transition of transformation in looking at our genetics our dna unraveling it identifying mistakes in genes and what causes disease looking at our cognitive properties and also the psychology what causes humans to have bias and hatred and what causes us to even engage in war what causes us to be okay that we have a bed and food and water and other people on the same planet that we coexist do not have a bed or food and water so these normalcies that have been ingrained in us um i don't want to say the haves or the have-nots but just this indifference um that seemingly is around us is not really true i think people truly more truly care about each other and want to live in a healthy environment but it doesn't get the press as you said there's a lot of hyperbole in the media which takes ideas and splashes them out there through filters that misconstrues and obfuscates ideas and turns them into a fear tactic because that's largely they might they need to sell don't they that that's the sad reality that we that we have to fight i think you said a very nice and simple question that i would like the listeners to remember and maybe to share forward that a transhumanist is a human in a state of transition right so i think that is a very simple and and you know kind of distilled way of of understanding things and obviously from that point onwards things can be taken into a bad transition or things can be taken into a positive transition and i think that that's what people like yourself and our company and other people on this planet are trying to do is to and it it leads me actually to to to your question about how did we get into transhumanism but you go first and then i'll tell you a story i'll be short and sweet on this uh oh because i'm gonna i'm writing a narrative for it to be a performance piece because you know everyone's stories are so interesting and i think that ted talks really brought storytelling to the forefront over the past couple of decades but my story on in how i got involved is i was working outside the country i was living in japan i became very ill and when i came back to the united states i thought about why i became ill and um i survived and that was quite phenomenal in the first place but in the second place i thought what am i going to do with the fact that i overcame the the illness that i had and actually survived it and i'm alive now and what can i do with my life and it was a turning point for me from the fine arts of the visuals making films and videos and performing a lot to where i thought wait a minute there's something not right here something needs to change i was very um impressed by the leaders in videography and virtual reality and uh using technology to create all sorts of immersive environments which was really starting out in the late 1970s and carried on through the 80s and i thought about my body i thought about the human condition i thought about people dying and when i would see people with injuries and that didn't have any resolve or you know dying from diseases um it affected me so that was the core reason why i got involved in transhumanism because i picked up a magazine while living in los angeles in 1981 and on the cover of a magazine was a picture of a man named fm fandiari and he was known as the world's leading futurist and mr immortality although he didn't like the term and i thought wow who is this person and i met with him and we talked about the future and that really spurred me forward so his influence and also buck mr fuller because of my interest in ecology and the environment and looking at distribution channels through socio-political economic systems was a major influence on me as well as susan son tag film critic and photographer and camille paglia a very robust thinker so that was the turning point for me where i then devoted my my next years in any production that i did on the future looking at solutions to problems that's that's exciting it's actually a bit reminds uh of my story because i was um before cyborg nest i was involved into something very different but in many ways similar and i was uh the ceo of this uh very edgy human rights organization and my role was to identify train and run undercover networks of people that are using technology to document human rights violations in places where no one else has access to so again we live in this on this planet where same as some of us have a bed and some of us have a food and some of us don't so the same happens with with information a lot of us you know we know a lot of stuff and we live in places where information is relatively free and we have access to it but there are still places in the world where there are people or governments that are making sure that there is absolutely zero information coming out of there with all the technology that we have today on the planet and it's still happening so we made sure that we break those barriers and the but the way that we did that was by basically designing undercover equipment that those people and networks were using in these places and literally like in the olden days i can't get into into too many details of how the operations work but but the idea was to extract those uh information out of those places and then you and many other places many other people on the planet saw it on the news or in courts or in other places and it was uh it appeared as amateur footage or something like that and at some stage i i've i've left that because of some personal uh reasons uh and then by mistake i met uh neil harbisson uh who is a friend of a friend and i heard that they are going for lunch so i said hey you have a friend with an antenna on your skull i'm coming as well you know just from the simplest most shallow way of looking at it and i i can i can admit that during the lunch my my thoughts were still shallow and i was i was focused on the antenna connected to his head but then i went home and it kept nudging me and nudging me and nudging me until a coin dropped and that changed everything and that coin was that basically everything that we ever created thought or felt started from a sensory input and if we have more senses and there is so much more to sense around us that we can't sense with the senses that we have so then we will live a richer life we can start creating solutions to problems from places that we didn't even think before that that can happen so that was a moment for me that that was okay that's no going back moment and that's how my my journey started into into this whole into this whole uh i didn't even know what true transhumanism is or or posthumanism and all these things which leads me to the to the second question which i think i think that not only transhumanism but there are so many terms running out there so there is transhumanism post-humanism cyborg punk solar punk this way that way how do you how do you map all these and kind of where do you see everything going and what will stop and what could continue that's really a great question because it can be so confusing all right so simply put transhumanism is a world view that is practical it's not only a engulfed in science and and philosophy and of course technology but it's also practice based you can practice transhumanism and transhumanism is here now because it's about ways we can innovate invent discover and resolve issues or problems that humanity faces and that is inclusive of the environments in which we live so that's something doable today post-humanism is a far future uh posthumanism is about the post-human and that is um a supposition to be sure it's a supposition about the evolution of the human species becoming something other than human so for example we're homo sapiens sapiens where mammals were animals were part of the the homo directive as far as speciation and so we're human trans-human means transition of human from biology and exclusive dependency on biology and the aging process as a norm or given or natural to mitigating that or intervening with disease and aging and some of these psychological maybe mental illness emotional instability brain impairment alzheimer's als dementia different types of cognitive problems that many of us face and working with that to improve and that means to be better than well to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible within that it offers an option for people to consider the advocates of radical life extension or super longevity meaning living well beyond our shelf life and the human species shelf life is approximately 120 to 123.5 years and no one has ever lived beyond that and usually we start um deteriorating in you know after puberty slowly but surely but definitely after menopause and andropause in men and later our you know we slow down and we have senescence and our cognitive properties slow down our muscles our tendons are you know all break down and slow down to where we're in our 80s and 90s and hundreds and often most people are quite weak well we want to change that so people live as long as possible as healthy as possible and if people don't want to live longer that's their choice but if they do we want to offer options for that and those options are to remain biological through certain genetic engineering and maybe some nanomedicine and manipulations with biology and the aging process or the senescence of cells or maybe become more augmented or enhanced and prosthetic parts and coexist in multiple substrates so that's all transhumanism it's here today it's doable but it's also looking at the future where post-humanism would be a post-human not a human and i think that's the the main thing that you can have supposition or conjecture or a vision about a what a post-human future could be like but it is not attainable so we can't really prescribe it or describe it we can only be visionary about it and offer possible futures whereas transhumanism as i said is something here today now the the cyborg or the different cyborg groups or the hackers the grinders the um any of those groups are they don't have to be transhumanists to manipulate their bodies and um you know through piercing or augments or you know putting a chip in their their finger or you know doing any type of uh augmentation that's their thing and you can be a cyborg without being a transhumanist the core difference is transhumanism is expressly looking at evidence-based science and ethical use of technology to improve the human condition so it's not just about the body it's not just about the mind it is about the circumstances in which we live and that is a separation through the anthropocentric view of maybe some of these groups or subgroups and the core of the philosophy and science of transhumanism i love it i think it's such a it's such a a simple and genuine from the heart way of putting it because you know i'm i'm looking at you and i'm not only listening but i'm i'm absorbing what you're what you're you're you know what you're expressing and i can see that there is a true care about what is happening and that's the place where we where we come from as well and i think that that is so important to pass onwards and for people to understand that we are not here just to play with our bodies or to see what we can stick into it or put on top of it or to experiment to do whatever but we have we have a mission that has values i mean i think of the word values is a word to throw here and it's not just for the sake of curiosity and playing although curiosity led us into into those into those places yeah exactly what's that i i i'm gonna drop because you spoke about lifespan and and uh and uh the time that we are supposed to be on the shelf our shelf life as humans and there is a one of our people from the community a young person called dodo and she wanted uh to ask you if you're afraid of death oh no not really uh not any more than the next person i would think i probably don't want to have a painful death i don't i think you know drowning is supposed to be the easiest death but i i get claustrophobia so i would want that uh probably the the easiest death would be not to know what's coming you know in your sleep or something but absolutely not afraid of death uh i don't like death i don't welcome death and i find death a hindrance on my life to be sure but it's not about fear uh for goodness sakes uh you know i think about some of the the uh you know all of us have a history of disease and injury i remember i went through a car windshield head first i could have died from that but i didn't but i still driving cars um you know as i said in the beginning the reason why i got interested in the vulnerability of the body was from my first-hand experience uh being very very ill and literally hemorrhaging to death and someone found me and um saved my life and fortunately that person spoke english because i was in japan and uh the doctor said you know doctor came and translated through my translator that i may not live so i just said okay and i remember at that moment i had no fear at all i in fact it was interesting i had a sense of peace and even though i was semi-conscious i was more concerned about getting blood on the people around me and that they were okay and i was willing to let go so it has nothing to do with the fear of death but thank you for asking that question because i think it is a very important question to ask yeah i think you know um dodo is a very young person and and i think that's you know for for young people or younger people um it's a question that obviously they they debate themselves with with all the time and how long we gonna live and how is that going to be and when am i going to die and speaking about life extension is such a it's such a hot topic in the world today and you and and you and and uh and your husband and max are at the core of of of uh of working on it um what can you tell us from behind the scenes or or something that what should we expect that is going to happen oh this is such a great question and it's such a broad question so i'll try to concretize this for you as best i can but we can follow up uh with this if i if i leave any gaps in my thinking um let's see bottom line we as humans have been around or our species as homo sapiens sapiens as we've evolved i've been around for a hundred thousand years and during this time there have been um an array of of achievements that we've gone through to help sustain our lives of our flight or flight is still located in our brain stem and that impulse uh drives us to do whatever it takes at the last moment to help save someone's life or our own lives so when taking a look at longevity it makes sense that now that we have certain technologies that can unravel our dna and take a look at our genetic makeup and even into the genes to the proteins proteinomics and to see the functionality of what's going on and where there's some coding mistakes and using gene therapies like crispr to let's say fix them or to remove the the faulty genes in and put in copies of of healthy genes or functioning genes this is all very important so the longevity field is still at its infancy it's still in an embryonic stage i think the biggest uh accomplishment is that humans by and large are fully aware those of us in the industry or in the sciences and technologies that includes ethics etc are aware that we can manipulate our dna our genetic makeup and this is a big thing because up until uh this uh the late let's say the mid to late um 19 20th century and to into this 21st century no one thought we could of course there were dreams the taoist had the pill of immortality and jean funo looked at what causes disease and aging and how to stop it and of course fedorov nikolai fedorov was one of pioneer in russia looking at how to get over this this disease of death and and how to resurrect people from having died but we've done that in the past and not too long ago even a hundred years ago if someone's heart stopped they were considered dead but today we have fibrillators that we can put on someone and recharge their heart and that's amazing and that's a very simple one that's done on a daily basis probably hundreds of thousands of times a day for people who have heart attacks and or strokes so we can regenerate the heart reignite the heart through electrical currents and this is a marker it's a major marker for humanity that we can bring back someone from the dead with that said that's just one example we have um let's see 25 of the variations of our dna um is is prone to disease and the rest of it is healthy but we need to find that 25 and there's research being done in the in the enzyme telomerase which is the end of telomeres which is shortening is considered or thought to cause aging there's also the senescence of cells that the daughter cells can only duplicate so many times before you start getting wrinkles or gray hair or weakness in your joints and arthritis um we've talked about crispr gene editing gene therapies um and then there's the um also something we coexist with another agency it doesn't have agency per se like um senescence or sapiens but another uh form which is mitochondria and mitochondria is in almost every cell of our body and it produces about 90 percent of our energy and that mitochondria is an organelle which is a different type of of life form if you want to say it's alive but we need to work with that so we're looking at what is causing mitochondria to be healthy or not healthy could this affect our energy levels which affects our whole entire system and our ability to function so the um the vision of life extension is largely looking at our dna and genetic makeup and some of the mistakes in coding of the dna and how to better resolve that or mitigate it another area that's very important is to take a look at what's going on in the environment how healthy is the environment that we live in and we're finding that there's certain pollutants and and additives in our food preservatives etc that can cause disease but this is really not big enough so what is being worked on and behind the scenes and i think is most important is a field called nanomedicine and it stems from nanotechnology and in nanomedicine it would be tiny tiny microscopic maybe carbon microscopic computers that are programmed to go in the body much like you put in a vaccine in the body or take a pill in the body and it would be programmed to go to an area of the body where there's a breakdown of cellular structure within the organs causing disease and repair it so in the future the idea is that the body would be regenerative and reinvigorated on a moment-to-moment basis so that while we have this biological system which is constantly functioning through our central nervous system to our peripheral nervous system and sending messages up and down our spinal cord to our brain we would also have invited another entity or agency which would be a tiny system that would go in our body and work with our chromosomes and our proteins and our enzymes and all the different worker bees in our body to help them keep the body healthy and safe but that's one area that's within biology longevity is looking at not just having a biological body but altering the biological body which enters your field of looking at augments and attachments cyborgs and increasing abilities of the body especially in the senses and also looking at how ai will affect and alter and improve our cognitive abilities especially people with dementia and a slowness in cognitive well repairing that slowness or the synapses of the neurological connections in the brain but also backing up up the brain the mind and and backing up memories really important for us and to um build um substitute or secondary or tertiary bodies like i designed which you mentioned earlier in this discussion which would be if this body totally collapses and is no longer functional then we would use uh what i call the you know the um whole body prosthetic that could we could have an alternative body so those are just some of the basics but i think when you mentioned max moore and my work which is separate indeed but we're both chronicist and the field of crowd biology is really advancing organs are being frozen we know that it's it's ethical and has an incredible efficacy because of the infertility field eggs are frozen sperm is frozen embryos are frozen in fact the first embryo baby in 1972 it was a test tube baby um was injected into a woman and the woman gave birth so we're looking at a history of infertility being at the forefront of longevity and manipulating or mitigating or intervening with some of the problems of biology but longevity um is sometimes we may wish and hope to have all these new technologies and advances but something happens that's unexpected walk outside get hit by something driving a car gets smashed into something uh doing our best and something happens and this is unavoidable we cannot predict some of these unattended consequences so the field of crowd biology is very important in its subfield of cryonics or cryogenics and cryonics is the field that is looking at and doing uh the future of humanity and picking up where today's medicine leaves off so rather than a doctor telling you i'm sorry there's no more i can do we've done everything possible we cannot save your life or save your child's life or your parents life and that's where chronics comes in because chronics can take the person who is told they're terminal has no alternative but to die and places them in uh cryonics which is a vitrified state so you're just preserved everything stops you're not alive you're not dead well you're pronounced dead but you're just you exist until the future technology and science could uh bring you back so that's at the cusp and actually being done now there's many hundreds of people in chronics today and uh they research on it the advances in it will only get better and better to me it's so exciting i mean um i don't want to get into into max's workers because that's another conversation but it's it's absolutely it's absolutely fascinating um oh my god we are running out of time soon there is one question that people always ask and um and i understand why people always ask and this time it came from again a friend of ours called haridontos he's an artist that by the way i recommend looking at some of his stuff um and and he says how can we make sure that we stop the divide between those that they have and those that don't have i know i know a bit what's my answer to that but i would love to to hear part of yours and then i can cheap in my part you know this divide is age old it's historical there has always been a divide between those who have and those who have not and that's a darn shame i mean bottom line that's not what we would all hope for but it is the way it is is that the way it should be in the future no should we do everything to stop it yes indeed but don't ask me i didn't cause it and transhumanism didn't cause it take a look at the history of politics the history of economics the history of social organizations and societies and take a look back at the history of europe and even into africa in greece egypt egypt had slaves egyptians had people that weren't even considered to be humans waiting on them that were treated like slaves even in the the roman empires going back to even the norwegians and the danish and looking at the nordsmen and the uh early vikings the vikings i mean tortured people and there were the wealthy or the royalty and then there were the slaves so this issue is not something that's 21st century even 20th century it dates back to the earliest times and mind you we could probably ask an archaeologist to look at the bone structure or the environment and see if anyone if there was a hierarchy there and we could probably get a somewhat definitive answer but claiming that it's historical and it's been around is not the answer it's just a realization and we must have a strong understanding of history in order to learn from our past and become better ancestors for the future and i give that credit to luke robert mason who brought it up recently at one of our transhumanist studies groups and i think that that legacy of what we leave as a species as a culture as a society is really important and within that what we want to do is uplift people and i think transhumanism is the only world view that ardently looks at that not just from the use of ethical based technology and evidence-based science but that's a beginning because if we have ethical technology that means everyone can have it it's not owned by any big haunch group that is telling us what to do or telling or taking our material our identities and distributing as they want so we say no to that it's not ethical and number two evidence-based science so that people can't come along and sell snake oil to us under the guise of longevity or genetic engineering or any type of of measure and if we develop that knowledge to be better more sober thinkers we can better understand what causes people not to have what they need and education is probably the most obvious and clear-headed answer to that totally i think we it's it's a it's fascinating because i love your answer because that's my answer usually i always say listen we are creators we are people that come and wake up in the morning and try to create a better humanity a better earth but we are we are visionaries we are people that literally dedicate their lives or or doings into doing that we are not the people to come and be asked about it because i mean there are governments there that they they they produce tax laws and then they allow some people not to pay taxes and those people are usually the rich people so it's the whole system that all of us need to change it's not it's not time no one should not have to pay taxes if everyone paid a percentage then even if even if you're poor you still contribute and then you have uh you you can and contributing is one of the biggest builders of self-esteem as long as you know that you're part of of the group part of the team a player in it then you can have a level of pride and self-ownership so don't just expect the rich people to pay they should pay their fair share as well but everyone needs to contribute and uh so i think if everyone contributes at the level they can in some way if they don't have money then a little time perhaps or or help someone else do something i think we need to see more of that than people sitting on a sofa waiting for the governments to pay their rent and pay their education and pay everything for them yeah it's a it's kind of a two to two sides of the coin isn't it it's always it's always like that and i think you know people need to wake up in the morning and to say what did i do yeah today to make it a a better place you know and and if you have an answer so then so then you probably your day was not was not wasted i mean uh you there's another thing there too and i love the way that you said that another thing there too is it's so important to accept the differences between us if you're if you're have a different religious view or spiritual view or a different moral code that sure that's your beliefs you know no one should be dictating to someone else what they should believe or or a need to believe the bottom line is if we're kind to each other and allow each other to be who we are as individuals people will have that that level of confidence that will help them become involved and then that that divide between the haves and the have-nots will not be so important because people will be their unique selves just because someone seems to have a lot doesn't mean they have a lot they may have a boat but maybe they have multiple sclerosis or brain tumor they may be a ceo of a corporation but maybe their child is dying you never know what's going on in someone else's lives so i think if we live in communities and i've lived in communities that are very poor with i live with the navajo indians where i slept on a hut and just ate uh i think it was dried eggs no mirrors no toothbrush nothing but we tried to keep our environment clean and healthy so it's that dignity of of personhood which doesn't matter how much money you have it's how kind you can be and generous with what you do have to share knowledge and that's something we can all do so i think the greatest have is knowledge and the greatest have not is ignorance so let's spread our knowledge to help those and learn but not push them not persuade them but to encourage and support them at whatever level or stage they are in their own growth and development this isn't to say that there aren't people starving and i already mentioned this early on we need better channels of distribution but who's in charge of that natasha it's such a pleasure talking to you and i think we could we could continue like that forever and i didn't get even to half of the list of the things that i wanted to talk to you about so we'll probably have to do it again part two but but i think that was a very first of all optimistic and second loving way of of of finishing the conversation in a way speaking about you know how much we care about each other because you know we started from transhumanism and robocop and whatever and all that but there is that essence of us being humans or being a creature or being a dog or being whatever that you know we have we have feelings and we look around and we use our senses which is what we deal with to perceive our reality and sometimes you know i had a great art teacher when i was young and she told me don't just look observe so when you walk on the street you know things go past you all the time if it's trees or people or buildings or whatever and you know usually people just walk and they they use their eyes not to bump into stuff but but how about you actually observe what you are what you are seeing in front of you and what is what is happening and and that can lead you to that place where you can see that person that needs help you it can it can lead to a great idea that you're gonna have and it's gonna change the world you know so yeah let's continue dreaming doing being positive and loving and caring to each other and and i think in this way not only that we are not creating robocop but we are probably creating a much better positive and nice environment to live in a more humane humanity yes i love it thank you so much it's been such a pleasure and looking forward to have you next time thank you you
2021-09-02