Kira and welcome to CIO leadership live I'm your host Kathy O'Sullivan editor for CIO of New Zealand my guest today is Elia Sparta technology and product director at meteorx hello Elias how are you doing hi Kathy how are you good good great day great to chat to you again and um can you um tell us a little bit more about your role and what and what your team at media Works does sure look I think a lot of people know media works is um kind of a radio outdoor business now um and we have nine you know radio Brands cross country the latest one being Today FM we've also built a um an outdoor business which is all the digital signage we have in the outdoor signs that we have out on Highway threeways and certain points our team supports all of that so I've got a kind of a broadcast uh team that looks after transmission and Engineering for our radio Brands we've got a group I.T function that kind of looks after all the kind of hosting and user um uh database Etc all the core common I.T Services we have a product and digital delivery team that looks at our digital products and executing on those like our Rover application which is all our you know on demand and on on IOS and Android capabilities for listening to our Brands and our content and we also have a delivery function that looks at how we enable you know certain issues in our business across the across the breadth of everything that we do and then you've got cyber and architecture Etc you know the standard pillars of Technology across the board yeah I mean it's it's an ever-changing landscape media and definitely has been impacted hugely by um by digital Technologies and the word transformation that's thrown around within organizations as as if it's a given as if it's something easy to do but you know you'll know it it's not actually an easy thing to do so can you tell us how that approach has taken shape in your own career yeah I think look um sometimes transformation is often a missed use term as well um and and it can be different things to different people you know um I think um uh while it's it it's not easy full stop whether you're evolving or really transforming you know and and that spectrum of um change across that um the Cycles seem to be getting shorter today it's not an easy thing but it's certainly not a given that it will be achieved whatever it is you're trying to do right I think there's a fundamental piece around making sure that you understand what you're trying to do you move forward on clear concise outcomes and it's not too broad in terms of what you're trying to achieve so for our like I look at my career over many years and I've been in several Industries so military Aerospace defense um uh banking Financial Services government you know transport as well as media and the outage is still the same like transformation can be mistermed misused and digital transformation combined can often be different things to different people you know so you need to be very clear and concise on what you're trying to achieve and whether it's a small Evolution about a capability that gives you an increased outcome improved Revenue improve capability or it's a you know nuts and bolts changing of your entire business process or a business uh capability like for example recently we we as a media Works um business we sold our TV business now that was actually a fairly Hefty piece of strategic decision making and change and you could call that a transformation that you're separating you know two core businesses uh you could call building new capabilities that you do normally like broadcasting TV and radio in a new way say on digital platforms or Cloud play out as a transformation you know at the heart of it is people and at the heart of at the core of it is to make sure that that change is is human-centric it's customer-centric and people first rather than the the Technologies and the underlying capabilities that they give you so you've touched on this a little bit there but you know do you think there's ever a a starting point to kick off a transformation Journey um are there any kind of key steps cios must take along the way you mentioned people there but is there is there anything else that you think is key to um to you know to actually transforming yeah I think look you need to build a good story and I think you know as a um as a leader as a whatever level you're at you need to build a good story around what it is you're trying to implement and and what sort of change you're trying to affect and make it very clear you know so it's very clear and concise around what it is you're you're trying to achieve and then part of that is to then bring the team and the organization on the journey right I've been in you know in organizations where people bring in strong leaders you know and there's a scorched Earth policy around well you're either with this transformation or you're in the way you know and that works to a point sometimes but often what happens is even if you achieve the summit and put the flag on the top of the hill it's not sustainable long term um and I think if you can bring the organization with you it's really fundamentally more sustainable over time so you know that's a fairly key and then you need to kind of answer the question around the Y AI you know why are we doing this doesn't make sense you know the how can be worked out by the teams that need to do it um but really the why needs to be quite compelling um but you know I think they're the key things you need to really look at and to to evolve or transform you know yeah for sure and you know you mentioned the the power of a good story there and you know in every story there's always uh challenges and what are some of the kind of common roadblocks you've encountered when you've been um involved in transforming an organization and what are what are some of those challenges to that you you can try and avoid along the way if possible because not everything you can overcome of course yeah it's interesting dichotomy so on the one hand the pace of change is you know people constantly talk and and mention today is just accelerating you know whether it's exponential then you're all whatever it's getting faster but humans have been the same uh animals for at least 300 000 years right so the the key thing to understand is what is the change that is required from a people perspective in your organization and often I I use analogy of like you can see an iceberg you can see the tip of the iceberg right which is the change you think that you're going to affect but the Berg which is you know three quarters to 80 of it is under the water that you don't see that's the Enterprise uh culture Legacy the way things are done and I've seen organizations where they'll spin off a new digital capability which is addressing that sort of tip of the um uh what you can see uh and then it's the Enterprise which is the Berg you know and and often that transformation doesn't work because it hasn't taken the Enterprise eyes with it so I think that's a fundamental piece which is really to make sure that you move the Enterprise holistically it's which is very hard to do you know it's not an easy thing to do but it that's where I think ultimate success prevails um absolutely and all around that stakeholder engagement right you know knowing who who you're who you're talking to and who who you need to bring on that Journey um so Elias I'm curious to get your view on whether you see transformation as just an ongoing development or do you like to think of transformation as a project it has Milestones it has a deadline and you're done and you're on to the next one where where do you stand on that view of transformation oh I think it's a Continuum I think I think um businesses run and evolve and transform constantly right what you want to be really clear about is framing the outcomes and the capabilities you're trying to put in place whether it's in a six-month period whether it's a quarter whether it's a year and you're mobilizing and focusing to achieve those outcomes in that period right you don't kind of get to the summit and then plant the flag and then say right well that's it we're going to retire now you know there's other Summits to climb there always will be and it's a Continuum in my mind you know so you've got to be you've got to pace yourself and the team and your organization but you've got to you know tell that story as a Continuum I think but celebrate the outcomes that you do get you know and focus on the outcomes so that they are tangible so something's ongoing you need to have milestones and events along the way that you know you can achieve those outcomes and then keep going yeah and I'm glad you mentioned that impact on the team as well because that's something that's coming up quite a lot is the impact of so much change on teams as well as is definitely a real thing isn't it yes yeah yeah and I think that's um that's a real real Crux of it which is like um and I take media works as a business so we've had um uh constant change in the media sector media can be often the canary in the coal mine for the economy you know if things are going this way or that it's quite a dynamic industry but then we've had people in specific skill sets and teams that have been doing the same thing for 18 years you know and all of a sudden like um when we launched um uh the first Cloud Player channels we had in in new Z for edge TV and Breeze TV there are a fundamentally different way of doing Broad podcast and that required skill set changes it required some teams not being involved anymore and other teams doing more so that's quite a scary change and really important to kind of take the people through it um you know step by step not easy but very very important yeah absolutely as as humans we're primed to not want to change trying to look out for those threats all the time so can you tell us um as um technology and product um director in what ways do you influence and collaborate with the organization and its leadership team well I think you have a as a as a kind of Technology um uh lead you have an obligation to firstly as any exec as any leader you need to forge relationships with your peers with the board Etc to be able to achieve the outcomes that you need so that's building relationships around work but also getting to know each other you know to work out how this person operates how you operate how that will work you know it's a different Dynamic with different people you know just the beautiful nature of humans and their complexity you know um and so that's that's the key but then I think you also have an obligation to kind of uh communicate and educate right so communicate in terms of what's happening what you're achieving what you're not achieving you know how that's going to work what the business really is trying to achieve and that's a commercial lens and an Acumen that you need to bring to the table on the other side you also there's a real key around the art of what's possible right and I think you know technology is changing so much we often kind of run down things like buzzwords like cloud and then blockchain and you know web 3.0 or whatever but really understanding hey these are really interesting Technologies here's where we could apply them to our business and then educating that some of the business in terms of what could be achieved there right but your communication piece and your relationships are really key around making sure that you can take you know have a seat at the table and then take any sort of change that you agree forward or actually instigate some of the change as well yeah that future focus is so important isn't it and just being that lens for for the rest of the exactly on as you say what could be possible um with with future Technologies and and the business and sometimes sorry um sometimes it's also just communicating that hey you know what we can't just go and buy that capability because they're not secure they don't comply with standard capabilities that we would have an error so it's communicating what our standards and what our capabilities are and how we need to align new new business or capabilities so it's really important to have both yeah the shiny thing is not always the best thing for an organization yes so um you know the role of um CIO Elias it is evolving you know a lot of organizations may not even use the term CIO anymore what do you think are some of the key um attributes of a successful modern day CIO when it comes to leadership oh I think it's it's as I said leadership is kind of relatively constant you know which is you need to be able to have a clear view of where you're going the hill that you're going to climb and be able to tell that story um effectively and concisely and clearly you know I think um uh the the the way that articulation occurs um is important but also your understanding of human nature or what drives people what drives teams is really really fundamental you're you're not just setting a direction you're actually sometimes part psychologist part motivator you need to understand how people are driven to take them from where they are to where we need to go and that's a hard thing to do you know like if you if you like I was saying before if you do the old scorched Earth and have you know strong leadership and tribe and organization that works to a point but it's not sustainable because you haven't taken once you're gone you know you want the capability to keep going in the organization to keep going as they did so bringing people forward I think is really important and developing that capability and that buy-in that is more sustainable whether you're there in the in the long term or not you know um I also think that um uh your your your capability around how commercial what sort of Acumen you have around that is really important there are lots of things we can do and there are lots of great ideas that come in at the exact business level as well that are not commercially viable for example you know and and the latest technology is one thing we seem to love running off and looking at new bits of gear and Tech but actually not understanding if that applies into organizations in a holistic way and gives you the outcomes that you need um and there's been many you know my career instances of where it's been platform driven and you kind of put this platform in it and you're not gonna um uh tailor it or do anything to it but there's a lack of understanding of the way the business is running the way the teams in the business have actually been doing things so there's an immediate mismatch there so your role as a CIO I think is to really understand both you know and to me Technology's often the the last bit you know it's understanding what is it in the business that needs to change around people processes you know for foremost and be able to articulate that yeah again back to your point around it being you know people centered and human-centered firsts and and then building out from there so um just uh taking things in a different direction looking at your own your own team and how are you creating a culture that really helps um have some Thrive and grow and and and and and hit those professional and personal goals yeah I think uh part of um your role as a leader is to create a safe environment where people can develop and can feel you know there I use the word empowered to kind of work out the how of you know what's required and Achieve that but I think also personally like and I speak at media Works um here we've had staff that are you know to me world-class and experts in their field in many many fields transmission radio engineering some of our RIT teams as well and over the last sort of 20 years they haven't had that development you know given the nature of the business the many you know mergers and Acquisitions and and you know events that occurred so what we've been actively trying to do is to build some sort of career path and the broader piece with our company is we're building a more cohesive people and culture plan and and um really focusing on building long-term career paths so for technologists and I'll tell you a story many years ago like I went to Boeing so people think progression you know is um becoming a manager and than a exec Etc but I was at Boeing many years ago and one of the um uh the team and the exec I was talking to there um said to me who do you think some of the highest paid people in our company are and I said well you know this layout and he said well that guy there on the shop floor has been there for 35 years and he's one of the highest paid because he's an expert in his field globally you know so they've built career paths that are technically uh specialized but actually deliver a key outcome to the business and the value's been so I think building that sort of capability for technical capabilities and organizations is really important and it's not easy to do okay yeah and um you know playing to their strengths right because that's they they may not want to be a manager they may not want to be on the exact right but they they love doing what they're doing and great that Boeing has has that sense and good that you're looking at how you can um do that at media works as well and so looking at then um diversity in it there's not really you know it is still quite male dominated it's still quite homogeneous what do you think um a why do you think we don't have enough diversity in it roles here and the what do you think can be done to attract more people to I.T from from different backgrounds that perhaps may not have considered I.T before I think part of its societal so I remember like I joined uh the Australian Air Force
many years ago I was probably in the cohort of 80 male with 20 female on our team they were a small number of female Engineers I think it's societal in that part of it is which is the encouragement the doors being opened and the ability of diverse you know people in our communities whether they're women or ethnic backgrounds being able to apply and go into those roles is one thing that's kind of societal the other side of it is there's also things you can actively do to help Foster that as well so often like I'll be looking for in the years past I'd be looking for say an architect role right and I'll go to some agencies and and you know and see these I'll get will be 80 90 male so I'll have to actively ask them to say look send me a selection of CVS that are diverse they may not have all of the attributes of the role but give me strong you know here's some important ones as well give me strong leadership or give me strong lessons just let me see what's out there and in one of the roles we had last year we did do that and we we had a candidate that got to the final list as a result of that didn't have the the call background in some of the skill sets but had it the other important attributes as well so I think you have to actively pursue that as well to help drive that and then there's often like in Industries I don't know people have differing views around quotas and targets to make sure that you get to a level and then it's self-portuating like a lot of boards we have in in Australia and New Zealand as well you know need more diversity that's improving so I think that there's a few factors and there's a few levers that we do have to help drive that forward and I've seen you know in the last sort of 20 years of my career it actively improving not as fast as people would like as well but it's getting there you know yeah and change takes time often yes next time and and it is not the only industry as you say you know from your time in the Navy there are other Industries as well sorry huge mistake um so um looking back on your own career are there any um mistakes or that things that you've done that um have shaped you as a leader that you've really learned from you know stuffing up or or something the wrong way oh there's there's always many you know I think if you look back um there's a couple that really stick out for me so uh part of it speaking up and part of it's not speaking up there's a way in a way so um when I was younger um I could sense that you know say a program wasn't quite going well and I felt well I didn't say anything I thought the leadership had that in place but actually you didn't give them the benefit of the doubt around saying look I think this is about to happen or this isn't right for them to form that decision either ignore or accept or do it and then you know the flip side is I did speak out once one of our uh my boss at the time was not doing what he he should have been doing many years ago in the military right and so as a young you know so and so I I kind of walked in there and told him you know because everybody in the group knew that he wasn't doing certain things and um I just said he needs to know so I told him but I told him in a way that you know was quite confronting and I didn't realize the subtlety of how you do this at that time you know and he just basically said to me don't you told me this I've been here for 25 years et cetera Etc and really what he was saying is I should have paid a little bit more respect around how how I did that but you know I think speaking up was important so there's two there's two things there which is yes speak up but do it do it in a good way you know and I can imagine in a military environment that adds a whole other level right so yeah absolutely and and things that you need to think about fully enough about a month later we we had a beer and he was he was actually he said look I'm glad you did say it just not the way you did it you know and and we did work it through but it was um a kind of a reality check good feedback you know that he did get um but yeah there's a way in a way isn't it yeah so then what's um what's the best career advice you've ever received um that's really stuck with you I think um one of the key things and I've had I've had some great um mentors and advice in the past as well the the key thing's been around just trusting yourself and your judgment you know so there are times when you kind of doubt yourself and um and one of the the best bits of advice I go was to say look listen to advice hear it all digest it but trust your judgment you know at the end of the day you're there for a reason um and I think that's really important so you need to kind of you know take the inputs work it through but at the end of the day just really trust what you're you know you're telling yourself or hearing from yourself and for anyone that has aspirations to be you know um a CIO or you know a product and Technology leader what what advice would you give them I think um uh don't um don't stop you know if that's your rain don't don't stop if there are multiple paths to it and I think uh always have an inquisitive mind always look at you know uh uh how you're going um in terms of your your career and sometimes you have kind of it's a bit like a um not quite a maze but it can be that you hit a cul-de-sac in part of your career at times but you know if you know where you want to go and you're still consistent in it there are ways to kind of you know come out of that and do something new and I think a good Mentor always helps as well I think that's really key especially when you're younger definitely definitely the power of a good Mentor and and finally Elias can you tell us um what's important to you in the months ahead well I think you know I'm coming up to 400 years at media works and it's been an incredible amount of change that that we've done and the key thing on my mind the next six months for us we've had quite a few big things this year already particularly with the launch of Today FM for us as a as a brand is just making sure that our team has the space the recovery and the development moving forwards um we have some tight people out there that have been non-stop for quite a while so we're trying to make sure that we we manage that we're trying to build and Recruit new capability in the market that we currently have in New Zealand and australasia and the world you know um and so they're fairly key of course we have large initiatives that are ongoing and some of those you know um will be coming out in the next sort of um wee while so it's really just making sure for me that the team you know is um is fighting fit and and does some of the team does get the rest that they need so uh Elliott spider technology and product director at media thank you so much for your time today thank you cheers cheers Kathy
2022-11-21