CIO Leadership Live with Technology and Product Director Ilyas Bardak of MediaWorks NZ

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Kira and welcome to CIO leadership live I'm  your host Kathy O'Sullivan editor for CIO of New   Zealand my guest today is Elia Sparta technology  and product director at meteorx hello Elias how   are you doing hi Kathy how are you good good  great day great to chat to you again and um can   you um tell us a little bit more about your role  and what and what your team at media Works does   sure look I think a lot of people know media works  is um kind of a radio outdoor business now um and   we have nine you know radio Brands cross country  the latest one being Today FM we've also built a   um an outdoor business which is all the digital  signage we have in the outdoor signs that we have   out on Highway threeways and certain points  our team supports all of that so I've got a   kind of a broadcast uh team that looks after  transmission and Engineering for our radio   Brands we've got a group I.T function that kind  of looks after all the kind of hosting and user   um uh database Etc all the core common I.T  Services we have a product and digital delivery   team that looks at our digital products and  executing on those like our Rover application   which is all our you know on demand and on on  IOS and Android capabilities for listening to our   Brands and our content and we also have a delivery  function that looks at how we enable you know   certain issues in our business across the across  the breadth of everything that we do and then   you've got cyber and architecture Etc you know the  standard pillars of Technology across the board   yeah I mean it's it's an ever-changing landscape  media and definitely has been impacted hugely by   um by digital Technologies and the word  transformation that's thrown around within   organizations as as if it's a given as if it's  something easy to do but you know you'll know   it it's not actually an easy thing to do so can  you tell us how that approach has taken shape   in your own career yeah I think look um sometimes  transformation is often a missed use term as well   um and and it can be different things to different  people you know um I think um uh while it's it   it's not easy full stop whether you're evolving or  really transforming you know and and that spectrum   of um change across that um the Cycles seem to  be getting shorter today it's not an easy thing   but it's certainly not a given that it will  be achieved whatever it is you're trying to do   right I think there's a fundamental piece around  making sure that you understand what you're trying   to do you move forward on clear concise outcomes  and it's not too broad in terms of what you're   trying to achieve so for our like I look at my  career over many years and I've been in several   Industries so military Aerospace defense um uh  banking Financial Services government you know   transport as well as media and the outage is still  the same like transformation can be mistermed   misused and digital transformation combined can  often be different things to different people   you know so you need to be very clear and concise  on what you're trying to achieve and whether it's   a small Evolution about a capability that gives  you an increased outcome improved Revenue improve   capability or it's a you know nuts and bolts  changing of your entire business process or a   business uh capability like for example recently  we we as a media Works um business we sold our TV   business now that was actually a fairly Hefty  piece of strategic decision making and change   and you could call that a transformation that  you're separating you know two core businesses   uh you could call building new capabilities that  you do normally like broadcasting TV and radio in   a new way say on digital platforms or Cloud play  out as a transformation you know at the heart of   it is people and at the heart of at the core  of it is to make sure that that change is is   human-centric it's customer-centric and people  first rather than the the Technologies and the   underlying capabilities that they give you so  you've touched on this a little bit there but   you know do you think there's ever a a starting  point to kick off a transformation Journey   um are there any kind of key steps cios must take  along the way you mentioned people there but is   there is there anything else that you think is  key to um to you know to actually transforming   yeah I think look you need to build a  good story and I think you know as a   um as a leader as a whatever level you're at  you need to build a good story around what it   is you're trying to implement and and what sort  of change you're trying to affect and make it   very clear you know so it's very clear and concise  around what it is you're you're trying to achieve   and then part of that is to then bring the team  and the organization on the journey right I've   been in you know in organizations where people  bring in strong leaders you know and there's a   scorched Earth policy around well you're either  with this transformation or you're in the way you   know and that works to a point sometimes but often  what happens is even if you achieve the summit and   put the flag on the top of the hill it's not  sustainable long term um and I think if you   can bring the organization with you it's really  fundamentally more sustainable over time so you   know that's a fairly key and then you need to kind  of answer the question around the Y AI you know   why are we doing this doesn't make sense you know  the how can be worked out by the teams that need   to do it um but really the why needs to be quite  compelling um but you know I think they're the key   things you need to really look at and to to evolve  or transform you know yeah for sure and you know   you mentioned the the power of a good story there  and you know in every story there's always uh   challenges and what are some of the kind of common  roadblocks you've encountered when you've been um   involved in transforming an organization and what  are what are some of those challenges to that you   you can try and avoid along the way if possible  because not everything you can overcome of course   yeah it's interesting dichotomy so on the one hand  the pace of change is you know people constantly   talk and and mention today is just accelerating  you know whether it's exponential then you're   all whatever it's getting faster but humans  have been the same uh animals for at least 300   000 years right so the the key thing to understand  is what is the change that is required from a   people perspective in your organization and often  I I use analogy of like you can see an iceberg   you can see the tip of the iceberg right which is  the change you think that you're going to affect   but the Berg which is you know three quarters  to 80 of it is under the water that you don't   see that's the Enterprise uh culture Legacy the  way things are done and I've seen organizations   where they'll spin off a new digital capability  which is addressing that sort of tip of the um uh   what you can see uh and then it's the Enterprise  which is the Berg you know and and often that   transformation doesn't work because it hasn't  taken the Enterprise eyes with it so I think   that's a fundamental piece which is really to make  sure that you move the Enterprise holistically   it's which is very hard to do you know it's not  an easy thing to do but it that's where I think   ultimate success prevails um absolutely and all  around that stakeholder engagement right you know   knowing who who you're who you're talking to  and who who you need to bring on that Journey   um so Elias I'm curious to get your view on  whether you see transformation as just an   ongoing development or do you like to think of  transformation as a project it has Milestones   it has a deadline and you're done and you're on  to the next one where where do you stand on that   view of transformation oh I think it's a Continuum  I think I think um businesses run and evolve and   transform constantly right what you want to be  really clear about is framing the outcomes and   the capabilities you're trying to put in place  whether it's in a six-month period whether it's a   quarter whether it's a year and you're mobilizing  and focusing to achieve those outcomes in that   period right you don't kind of get to the summit  and then plant the flag and then say right well   that's it we're going to retire now you know  there's other Summits to climb there always   will be and it's a Continuum in my mind you know  so you've got to be you've got to pace yourself   and the team and your organization but you've got  to you know tell that story as a Continuum I think   but celebrate the outcomes that you do get you  know and focus on the outcomes so that they are   tangible so something's ongoing you need to have  milestones and events along the way that you know   you can achieve those outcomes and then keep going  yeah and I'm glad you mentioned that impact on the   team as well because that's something that's  coming up quite a lot is the impact of so much   change on teams as well as is definitely a real  thing isn't it yes yeah yeah and I think that's   um that's a real real Crux of it which is like um  and I take media works as a business so we've had   um uh constant change in the media sector media  can be often the canary in the coal mine for the   economy you know if things are going this way or  that it's quite a dynamic industry but then we've   had people in specific skill sets and teams that  have been doing the same thing for 18 years you   know and all of a sudden like um when we launched  um uh the first Cloud Player channels we had in   in new Z for edge TV and Breeze TV there are a  fundamentally different way of doing Broad podcast   and that required skill set changes it required  some teams not being involved anymore and other   teams doing more so that's quite a scary change  and really important to kind of take the people   through it um you know step by step not easy but  very very important yeah absolutely as as humans   we're primed to not want to change trying to look  out for those threats all the time so can you tell   us um as um technology and product um director in  what ways do you influence and collaborate with   the organization and its leadership team well  I think you have a as a as a kind of Technology   um uh lead you have an obligation to firstly  as any exec as any leader you need to forge   relationships with your peers with the board Etc  to be able to achieve the outcomes that you need   so that's building relationships around work but  also getting to know each other you know to work   out how this person operates how you operate how  that will work you know it's a different Dynamic   with different people you know just the beautiful  nature of humans and their complexity you know   um and so that's that's the key but then I  think you also have an obligation to kind   of uh communicate and educate right so communicate  in terms of what's happening what you're achieving   what you're not achieving you know how that's  going to work what the business really is trying   to achieve and that's a commercial lens and  an Acumen that you need to bring to the table   on the other side you also there's a real key  around the art of what's possible right and I   think you know technology is changing so much we  often kind of run down things like buzzwords like   cloud and then blockchain and you know web 3.0  or whatever but really understanding hey these   are really interesting Technologies here's  where we could apply them to our business   and then educating that some of the business in  terms of what could be achieved there right but   your communication piece and your relationships  are really key around making sure that you can   take you know have a seat at the table and then  take any sort of change that you agree forward or   actually instigate some of the change as well  yeah that future focus is so important isn't   it and just being that lens for for the rest of  the exactly on as you say what could be possible   um with with future Technologies and and the  business and sometimes sorry um sometimes it's   also just communicating that hey you know what  we can't just go and buy that capability because   they're not secure they don't comply with standard  capabilities that we would have an error so it's   communicating what our standards and what our  capabilities are and how we need to align new   new business or capabilities so it's really  important to have both yeah the shiny thing   is not always the best thing for an organization  yes so um you know the role of um CIO Elias it is   evolving you know a lot of organizations may not  even use the term CIO anymore what do you think   are some of the key um attributes of a successful  modern day CIO when it comes to leadership   oh I think it's it's as I said leadership is kind  of relatively constant you know which is you need   to be able to have a clear view of where you're  going the hill that you're going to climb and   be able to tell that story um effectively  and concisely and clearly you know I think   um uh the the the way that articulation occurs  um is important but also your understanding of   human nature or what drives people what drives  teams is really really fundamental you're you're   not just setting a direction you're actually  sometimes part psychologist part motivator you   need to understand how people are driven to take  them from where they are to where we need to go   and that's a hard thing to do you know like  if you if you like I was saying before if you   do the old scorched Earth and have you know  strong leadership and tribe and organization   that works to a point but it's not sustainable  because you haven't taken once you're gone you   know you want the capability to keep going in the  organization to keep going as they did so bringing   people forward I think is really important and  developing that capability and that buy-in that   is more sustainable whether you're there in the  in the long term or not you know um I also think   that um uh your your your capability around how  commercial what sort of Acumen you have around   that is really important there are lots of things  we can do and there are lots of great ideas that   come in at the exact business level as well that  are not commercially viable for example you know   and and the latest technology is one thing we  seem to love running off and looking at new bits   of gear and Tech but actually not understanding if  that applies into organizations in a holistic way   and gives you the outcomes that you need um and  there's been many you know my career instances   of where it's been platform driven and you kind  of put this platform in it and you're not gonna   um uh tailor it or do anything to it but there's  a lack of understanding of the way the business   is running the way the teams in the business  have actually been doing things so there's an   immediate mismatch there so your role as a CIO  I think is to really understand both you know   and to me Technology's often the the last bit you  know it's understanding what is it in the business   that needs to change around people processes you  know for foremost and be able to articulate that   yeah again back to your point around it being  you know people centered and human-centered   firsts and and then building out from there  so um just uh taking things in a different   direction looking at your own your own team and  how are you creating a culture that really helps   um have some Thrive and grow and and and and  and hit those professional and personal goals   yeah I think uh part of um your role as a leader  is to create a safe environment where people can   develop and can feel you know there I use the word  empowered to kind of work out the how of you know   what's required and Achieve that but I think  also personally like and I speak at media Works   um here we've had staff that are you know to me  world-class and experts in their field in many   many fields transmission radio engineering some  of our RIT teams as well and over the last sort   of 20 years they haven't had that development you  know given the nature of the business the many you   know mergers and Acquisitions and and you know  events that occurred so what we've been actively   trying to do is to build some sort of career path  and the broader piece with our company is we're   building a more cohesive people and culture  plan and and um really focusing on building   long-term career paths so for technologists and  I'll tell you a story many years ago like I went   to Boeing so people think progression you know  is um becoming a manager and than a exec Etc but   I was at Boeing many years ago and one of the um  uh the team and the exec I was talking to there   um said to me who do you think some of the  highest paid people in our company are and I   said well you know this layout and he said well  that guy there on the shop floor has been there   for 35 years and he's one of the highest paid  because he's an expert in his field globally   you know so they've built career paths that are  technically uh specialized but actually deliver   a key outcome to the business and the value's  been so I think building that sort of capability   for technical capabilities and organizations is  really important and it's not easy to do okay   yeah and um you know playing to their strengths  right because that's they they may not want to   be a manager they may not want to be on the  exact right but they they love doing what   they're doing and great that Boeing has has that  sense and good that you're looking at how you can   um do that at media works as well and so looking  at then um diversity in it there's not really you   know it is still quite male dominated it's still  quite homogeneous what do you think um a why do   you think we don't have enough diversity in it  roles here and the what do you think can be done   to attract more people to I.T from from different  backgrounds that perhaps may not have considered   I.T before I think part of its societal so I  remember like I joined uh the Australian Air Force  

many years ago I was probably in the cohort of 80  male with 20 female on our team they were a small   number of female Engineers I think it's societal  in that part of it is which is the encouragement   the doors being opened and the ability of diverse  you know people in our communities whether they're   women or ethnic backgrounds being able to apply  and go into those roles is one thing that's kind   of societal the other side of it is there's also  things you can actively do to help Foster that as   well so often like I'll be looking for in the  years past I'd be looking for say an architect   role right and I'll go to some agencies and and  you know and see these I'll get will be 80 90 male   so I'll have to actively ask them to say look send  me a selection of CVS that are diverse they may   not have all of the attributes of the role but  give me strong you know here's some important   ones as well give me strong leadership or give me  strong lessons just let me see what's out there   and in one of the roles we had last year we did  do that and we we had a candidate that got to   the final list as a result of that didn't have the  the call background in some of the skill sets but   had it the other important attributes as well so  I think you have to actively pursue that as well   to help drive that and then there's often like  in Industries I don't know people have differing   views around quotas and targets to make sure that  you get to a level and then it's self-portuating   like a lot of boards we have in in Australia and  New Zealand as well you know need more diversity   that's improving so I think that there's a few  factors and there's a few levers that we do   have to help drive that forward and I've seen you  know in the last sort of 20 years of my career it   actively improving not as fast as people would  like as well but it's getting there you know   yeah and change takes time often yes next  time and and it is not the only industry   as you say you know from your time in the  Navy there are other Industries as well sorry huge mistake um so um looking back on  your own career are there any um mistakes or   that things that you've done that um have shaped  you as a leader that you've really learned from   you know stuffing up or or something the wrong way  oh there's there's always many you know I think if   you look back um there's a couple that really  stick out for me so uh part of it speaking up   and part of it's not speaking up there's a way  in a way so um when I was younger um I could   sense that you know say a program wasn't quite  going well and I felt well I didn't say anything   I thought the leadership had that in place but  actually you didn't give them the benefit of the   doubt around saying look I think this is about  to happen or this isn't right for them to form   that decision either ignore or accept or do it  and then you know the flip side is I did speak   out once one of our uh my boss at the time was not  doing what he he should have been doing many years   ago in the military right and so as a young you  know so and so I I kind of walked in there and   told him you know because everybody in the group  knew that he wasn't doing certain things and   um I just said he needs to know so I told him  but I told him in a way that you know was quite   confronting and I didn't realize the subtlety of  how you do this at that time you know and he just   basically said to me don't you told me this I've  been here for 25 years et cetera Etc and really   what he was saying is I should have paid a little  bit more respect around how how I did that but you   know I think speaking up was important so there's  two there's two things there which is yes speak   up but do it do it in a good way you know and I  can imagine in a military environment that adds   a whole other level right so yeah absolutely  and and things that you need to think about   fully enough about a month later we we had a beer  and he was he was actually he said look I'm glad   you did say it just not the way you did it you  know and and we did work it through but it was   um a kind of a reality check good feedback you  know that he did get um but yeah there's a way   in a way isn't it yeah so then what's um what's  the best career advice you've ever received   um that's really stuck with you I think um one of  the key things and I've had I've had some great   um mentors and advice in the past as well  the the key thing's been around just trusting   yourself and your judgment you know so there  are times when you kind of doubt yourself and   um and one of the the best bits of advice I  go was to say look listen to advice hear it   all digest it but trust your judgment you know  at the end of the day you're there for a reason   um and I think that's really important so  you need to kind of you know take the inputs   work it through but at the end of the day just  really trust what you're you know you're telling   yourself or hearing from yourself and for  anyone that has aspirations to be you know   um a CIO or you know a product and Technology  leader what what advice would you give them   I think um uh don't um don't stop you know if  that's your rain don't don't stop if there are   multiple paths to it and I think uh always have  an inquisitive mind always look at you know uh uh   how you're going um in terms of your your career  and sometimes you have kind of it's a bit like a   um not quite a maze but it can be that you hit a  cul-de-sac in part of your career at times but you   know if you know where you want to go and you're  still consistent in it there are ways to kind of   you know come out of that and do something new  and I think a good Mentor always helps as well   I think that's really key especially when you're  younger definitely definitely the power of a good   Mentor and and finally Elias can you tell us um  what's important to you in the months ahead well I   think you know I'm coming up to 400 years at media  works and it's been an incredible amount of change   that that we've done and the key thing on my mind  the next six months for us we've had quite a few   big things this year already particularly with  the launch of Today FM for us as a as a brand   is just making sure that our team has the space  the recovery and the development moving forwards   um we have some tight people out there that have  been non-stop for quite a while so we're trying   to make sure that we we manage that we're  trying to build and Recruit new capability   in the market that we currently have in New  Zealand and australasia and the world you know   um and so they're fairly key of course we  have large initiatives that are ongoing and   some of those you know um will be coming  out in the next sort of um wee while so   it's really just making sure for me that the  team you know is um is fighting fit and and   does some of the team does get the rest that  they need so uh Elliott spider technology and   product director at media thank you so much for  your time today thank you cheers cheers Kathy

2022-11-21

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