7 Days With The Man Claiming Aliens Exist (under oath in congress)
Yes Theory presents. "The flying disk has been retrieved...". CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE HUMANKIND. "... from Maxwell, New Mexico, and the possession of the object..."
"...is no way connected to any secret department of the United States..." "...the airforce called before a congressional committee said it was hiding nothing". "We have not been hiding anything". "The sighting has been kept in the unidentified category. We've been perfectly willing to say that too.
"The Air Force is simply treating the American people like children. They don't trust them with the facts". "It was not anything from this Earth. All I could do is keep my mouth shut". We must guard against the acquisition of unwanted influence by the military-industrial complex. "There are great ideas undiscovered, great truths available to those who can remove truths protective layers" - Neil Armstrong, First Man on the moon. "Yes there have been ET visitation, there have been crashed craft, and there is some group of people somewhere that have this knowledge" - Edgar Mitchell, Sixth man on the moon. Now, the vehicle you just described. How similar was it to the very first sighting that you had back in 1951?
Quite similar to that. Basically the same plain form vehicle, they were double saucer and taken there. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet I ask you. Is not an alien force already among us? - Ronald Reagan, 40th President of the USA.
The US Navy is finally acknowledging that videos appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real. We have nothing that goes that fast and just turns climbing at will. There's footage and records of objects in the sky that we don't know exactly what they are.
We can't explain how they move, their trajectory. They did not have an easily explainable act. Did you ever open up Roswell to let us know what is really going on there? So many people ask me that question. I won't talk to you about what I know about it. But it's very interesting. President Obama said that there is record of objects in the sky. These Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. And he says we don't know exactly what they are. What do you think that it is?
I would ask him again. Thank you. Apparently, the military have hundreds of these encounters, but most of the time they keep it to themselves. There is a stigma, and so a lot of these sightings are simply not reported. The floodgates could be open, as now the stigma is beginning to be removed. A former US intelligence official and airforce veteran claims top-secret program is withholding evidence of alien spacecrafts. Airforce veteran David Grush is exposing what he calls "a top-secret military program that is reportedly found wreckage of fully intact UFOs".
Non-human, exoctic origin vehicles that either landed or crashed. We have spacecraft from another species? We do. How many? Quite a number.
Congress this week is holding their first hearing on UFOs in more than 50 years. It begins with a highly anticipated hearing on Capitol Hill about unidentified flying objects. He's going to tell committee members that he has knowledge of a covert government program to recover crashed alien spacecraft. Washington, DC.
24h before the hearing. Wow, so long in the making, bro. So long in the making.
Hey, nice to meet you. Let's do it. You travel light, man. I do. I roll my clothes. You're having to put a tie on and a suit jacket, it's not a...
- All of that is in the bag? - Oh yeah, I rolled it. - Wow. -That's hilarious. The large guy has the smallest suitcase. So how did I end up in a car with the UFO whistleblower testifying in front of Congress tomorrow to let the world know that we're not alone? For that, we have to go back three years, where I found myself in the middle of a very bizarre experience that would push me to ask some of the most fundamental questions I've ever dared to ask about the nature of existence itself. In the fall of 2020, with no prior interest in the topic, I visited a small town in Massachusetts to talk to a number of people who had experienced a mass sighting of UFOs in September of 1969.
Over 300 people from a few neighboring towns saw something in the sky that defied our known laws of physics. And it just hovered right there. Not a sound, nothing. But even more bizarre than that, dozens of children went missing that night and claimed to have ended up on board of a craft.
And then the only thing I can remember after that was being levitated over on the street. I had never felt more of an unsettling disconnection between my intuition and rationale. On one hand, I felt an overwhelming sense of empathy towards these sincere humans who opened up to me about their traumatic events.
And on the other hand, those events had no place in my construct of reality. Was I being lied to by dozens of people who had nothing to gain from this besides humiliation and judgment? Or is what I consider to be reality missing something? In the months that followed, I started gradually researching the phenomenon. I watched hundreds of witness testimonies from civilians and military personnel from all over the world. What really stood out to me was the fact that the majority of witnesses described similar details about what they experienced while unaware of each other's stories.
And even though the mere mention of the subject has been systematically stigmatized, in recent years things have changed quite a bit. The Navy says it still doesn't know what the objects are and officials aren't speculating. A Navy spokesman simply confirmed to CNN, the objects seen in the various clips are Unidentified Aerial Phenomena or UAPs. The public's interest in UFOs started rising after the New York Times published an article in 2017 which confirmed that there was indeed a secret Pentagon program studying UFOs after years of denying it. With more awareness on the issue came more pressure on the U.S. government, which culminated in more demands for some serious answers on the UFO mystery.
Then in June of this year, a debrief article and a NewsNation interview broke out about an American whistleblower who had some groundbreaking information to share with the world. ...to bring you a NewsNation exclusive interview with a man we're calling the UFO whistleblower. David Grush is a career intelligence official who this week is making some bombshell claims of a U.S. government cover-up going back nearly a century. The UAP task force was refused access to a broad crash retrieval program.
When you say crash retrieval, what do you mean? These are retrieving non-human origin technical vehicles. The United States has spacecraft, intact craft. We do.
The secret program's mandate was to find and retrieve crashed or landed UFOs in order to reverse engineer them for technology that the government can use. And since extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Dave was called to the stand to back up his claims under oath for the first time in U.S. history. Okay, but how did I meet Dave in the first place? This is the man who connected the dots. Jesse Michels and I met in 2022 due to our mutual interest in the phenomenon, and we've since gone on a few truth-seeking adventures together. He is one of the brightest and most well-read multidisciplinary thinkers I have ever met, and his curiosity on the subject has massively inspired me. Jesse and Dave had connected a year prior to the hearing, and just a few days before it was scheduled in D.C., Jesse organized a call to introduce me to Dave, which by the
end of it, I was convinced that his story had to be told. And not through the lens of a distorted news cycle, but rather a meaningful exploration of his story and motives as a human. On that same call, I took a shot in the dark and asked Dave if he would let us document his story as the congressional hearing unfolded.
And to my complete surprise, he said yes. In fact, we were the only ones who had this type of access to Dave during the hearing and the days that followed. I think it has been seeking discomfort.
Yeah, I was going to say, this is the ultimate seeking discomfort. Seriously, yeah. It's not just seeking discomfort on an individual level to be in the place that you're in today, it's also what you're telling to humanity is a moment of seeking discomfort for a collective. How do you expect this to go? I think there's the people who have been kind of following the subject for years.
I think it might be a little bit of a letdown because I can't necessarily say everything I know. You know, it's like, and I'm working on trying to get more things cleared for the hearing. - Yeah. -Like still.
Literally, as I'm talking to the DOD (Department of Defense) security office, like as I was getting off the plane, "Please, get something approved by 10 a.m." because I want to be able to provide more detail. There's like a certain thing where it's like, shouldn't it be the president saying this stuff? Like, I don't want to be the purveyor of disclosure because I don't have all the data. I'm not in that leadership position and I, you know, I'm just trying to, you know, use a public pressure to kind of, you know, to get the executive branch to make a decision on what to release. Yeah.
Did all the checks I could possibly do, you know, within my, you know, kind of official capacity, realized it was real. And then, uh, kind of during that investigation, you know, I had a lot of pushback that was very unfortunate, you know, reprisals against me and stuff. And that kind of was what led me to file the whistleblower complaint, you know, a for my own protection, but B was to kind of sound the alarm.
They tried to claim all these things against me, conduct wise, mental health, all this other, uh, unfortunate stuff. I was in combat in Afghanistan, 2013, you know, I was on a convoys outside the wire. I, you know, I had a friend die, got blown up and all this other stuff, you know, baggage that I had for two, three years after coming back.
And, you know, I got diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, you know, saw treatment and I got help good to go, but there was an agency that tried to dig that back up and say, Oh, Dave still has ongoing issues. Unmitigated, we need to pull his clearance. And then I had to show my medical records and be like, no dude, I saw treatment still do because that's what you do. And they, they, they tried to use that against me. It was crazy.
You know, I spent basically two years fighting that battle, appealed it, want it cleared of all allegations and I still have my security clearance. It's been 20 minutes. And I don't, I don't, I can't even begin to express, yeah, it's, I feel sad that he had to go through what he had to go through to be able to, to simply share the truth. And for, for someone who was like serve the country and sort that to be used against him, like it's weird because it's both an exciting position to be hearing this stuff from straight from him, but also like very sad to see what he went through to be in the place that he's in today. Yeah. Hi, I'm Diane Maceda.
We begin with a highly anticipated hearing on Capitol Hill about unidentified flying objects or UFOs. Three men who previously served in the military are set to speak publicly about what they saw in the sky and heard behind closed doors. It is the day of the hearing.
We've got people waiting in line for us, which means that we'll just go swap with them and be able to go into the hearing. Good morning. It's a little difficult, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Humidity's not too bad yet, so I'm keeping the suit jacket off. It looks amazing for having been rolled up in a backpack. Thank you. You gotta roll it tight. I used to go to the Pentagon a lot.
I'd bring like a sweat rag with me in the summer. I'd like, you know, once I'm entering the Pentagon, I'm like wiping my sweat off. So, yeah. How are you feeling? I was a little restless last night. I was told last night that they requested me to be cleared for a closed session after today, but the request was denied. I was blocked.
So that's like obvious obstruction. Yeah, hopefully I can make a difference. You know, I'm the guy that will inspire more people to go public. He's in. I just can't imagine the amount of pressure he's under right now.
Like coming out to say something that people in this government and other governments have wanted to be silenced for the past 70 to 80 years. Right now we're going to go take our position in line because they're going to open in about an hour, so. He is going to tell committee members that he has knowledge through his work of a covert government program to recover crashed alien spacecraft under penalty of perjury before Congress. Those are the allegations that this whistleblower, David Grush, is going to make right through these doors right here.
I'm actually first in line. I've been standing here since 2 a.m. One night away from going into what could potentially be a pivotal moment for humanity.
You see right now that there are people that are coming in, but we just got some news and what you're about to see is these doors close relatively quickly, and I think there you go. That may be all that there is. The reason that you just saw that is because we have this line here.
You have another line around that corner, but they only have about six or seven available seats. You've got, again, hundreds of people waiting in line, if not more than that. So what I'm told is there is going to be an overflow room, Brian, that's set up. So the interest is huge, obviously, and we're seeing it firsthand here today. The subcommittee hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, or UAPs, will come to order.
The UFO is emerging as a major topic of global importance. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. I made the decision, based on the data I collected, to report this information to my superiors and multiple inspectors general, and in effect becoming a whistleblower. During a training mission in Warning Area Whiskey 72, 10 miles off the coast of Virginia Beach, two F-18 Super Hornets were split by a UAP.
The object, described as a dark gray or black cube inside of a clear sphere, came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft. Soon, these encounters became so frequent that aircrew would discuss the risk of UAP as part of their regular pre-flight briefs. If you were me, where would you look? Titles, programs, departments, regions. If you could just name anything. I'd be happy to give you that in a closed environment. I can tell you specifically. Thank you.
Do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials? Something I can't discuss in a public setting. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. Are you aware of any individuals that are participating in reverse engineering programs for non-terrestrial craft? Personally, yes. Do you believe UAPs pose a potential threat to our national security? Yes, and here's why. The technology that we faced was far superior than anything that we had, and you could put that anywhere. You're talking something that can go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants, and leave, and there's nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
Do you have any personal knowledge of people who have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology? Yes. In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues? Yes, personally. I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really not scared about this information coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that? I want to thank everybody. We made history today. Thank you.
I have no baseline with knowing if this went well or not, but in my perspective, there was a lot of repetition. A lot of the questions were just alluding to things that were already mentioned in public before. I wish there was a lot more attention on Dave and Dave's story.
Why is this case so significant? Like, if you could put it into a sentence, like, why is this here? It all boils down to transparency. People don't trust government for good reason. We need to get this information out and it needs to be worldwide.
So that he whole world can benefit from this. Amazing, thank you. Love over fear. Thank you, brother. Even though the hearing felt like a great step in the right direction, it still left me pretty frustrated that most questions asked were from the lens of the national security interests of the U.S.,
when clearly the implications of this topic are far beyond that. And that gave me the idea to do a different type of hearing with Dave the following day. It is now the day after the hearing, and the news has gone absolutely viral all over the world. David Grush. David Grush. David Grush.
David Grush. Having friends I have talked about these topics like years ago hit me up being like "Oh my god! What is this? What is going on?". And an idea that we had, honestly, after the hearing is what it would look like to set up a true public hearing where Dave gets to answer questions from strangers who are coming here not having any idea that they're going to be talking to the whistleblower that is telling humanity that we're not alone.
I posted on Instagram last night just being like, Hey, if you are a skeptic or a believer in UFOs, please send me your most pressing question. We set up this little public hearing in the rooftop of our hotel, and now we're just going to go out and say hi to people and bring them up here. Hi guys, nice to meet you. Alright guys, we're going to Antarctica all together. The Yes Fam is the only group of people that will show up to something they have absolutely no idea. But I promise it's going to be worth it. I still can't say much until we get up there.
Let's seek discomfort and follow me. We're all set up. Public hearing number two. This group is a pretty even split between skeptics and believers, and we want both perspectives to be represented here in the questions that you asked. This is a true public hearing.
Yeah, they told me last night. I thought well, this is going to be crazy. How do you feel after yesterday? Good. I mean, it felt like when I was playing basketball in high school, you get the pregame jitters. You're like, Oh my God, what's going to go on? You know, it was so cool to see the bipartisanship. It's just gotten so bad over the last 10 years where, you know, it's the liberals and the super-conservatives.
I thought it was the craziest thing I was telling him in the car. I have AOC and Matt Gaetz agreeing on something. Should we open the floor? I guess like one of the questions that I have is like, why do the politicians, like why do people who are higher up feel like they need to hide the evidence? Why do they not want us to know that? Yeah, I mean, I can only know what the mindset was, you know, multiple decades ago and like anything in government, they're resistant to change. So this is the way we set it up. They basically took the Manhattan project secrecy and overlaid it on this issue.
And then they realized the military and the national defense potential, if the reverse engineering basically was successful. So we're going to lock it down. And then you remember trusting government was high back in the forties post-war. And then also society was less secular. So there's, you know, they're worried about the religious ontological shocks as well.
And they never really developed a, we'll call it "disclosure plan" for what it's worth. And they just were like, "this is the way it's been, and we're going to keep it that way. And we don't want Russia and China to be exposed to any of this info". Fortunately, it's that kind of, kind of low energy thinking, you know? - Yeah. - Next question, please.
So continuing from what you were saying, are we safe as like a human species? Cause I mean, I might have watched too many movies. I mean, we can only, you know, through external observation and humanistic lens kind of, you know, see intent of its malice or benevolent. I mean, if the universe certainly has a yin and yang, so they're certainly dark with light. So I think it's a mixed bag. It's just like humans, right? Humans are generally kind, but we also kill animals for food. And like, if you were a cow, you'd be like, these evil humans are going to chop me up and like, you know, eat me.
So it's, but we're not actually benevolent or excuse me, malevolent as a whole, but some lower sentient species would see us as malevolent. So it's what lens you look at through. And I be very general in this to protect this person's identity.
Cause they're still on active duty. But like, I remember interviewing a guy and I have a background in psychological analysis and other stuff to assess people and for like three hours. And it was a certain very senior Navy individual that saw he was going to work at a certain facility in the morning, you know, not drunk, not high. And a 300 foot triangular craft hovered over his car for a couple minutes. And it like, he couldn't even process what he was seeing, but then he took pictures of his car after the incident and all the Zenith upper facing decks of his car were all got hit with ionizing radiation ultraviolet. Cause the paint became milky. His headlights totally went, they were totally clear. His car was perfect before the incident.
And I'm like, Holy crap. You have physical artifacts. The guy we assessed, you know, he had a normal psychological composition, no weird belief system. He's just a dude that was going to work at a Navy base. And you know, he had a freaking huge craft, at least the physical proof he provided. He drew what he saw, no sound, these weird omni-directional lights, kind of that classic, you know, triangle-like, Holy shit.
I didn't believe in UFOs, but these guys are like, they can't be lying to me. Cause they certainly, um, are credible guys that have a lot to lose. He was super scared to come forward. He didn't tell his wife for five years.
That was I think an inflection point for me where I'm like, okay, there's something going on. That's not adversarial tech talking to these people that were literally in tears telling me this stuff. Cause it was an emotional thing that they could not process analytically what they were saying. It was like totally beyond their comprehension. So for what it's worth, I've never seen anything believe or not. So I came in as non-believers. And this is coming as somebody who's a bit of a skeptic. I understand that the US, Russia, China are very, very good at like secrecy and maintaining that area of secrecy, but you know, there's 180 some odd countries, 190 some odd other countries.
How come we haven't seen more of this coming out from maybe other small countries? I mean, you mentioned Grenada, you mentioned San Marino. Have we seen more of this? People have just been not paying attention. Has it been a lot of like forcing them into silence? So there are certainly friendly governments, governments both across the pond and let's say local to where we are landmass that are, are for this. And a lot of them know that they got a raw deal with the US cause they were basically part of the secrecy through kind of agreements like bilateral unilateral agreements. And they're like, you know, they kind of want to be release me like, you know, cause they, they do realize it was a, it was a bad deal. With the ecosystem secrecy, some people, one of their arguments is like, Oh, how would they keep the secret? I'm like, dude, I was cleared to some of the most nation's most sensitive programs.
I used to handle the PDB (Presidential Daily Briefing), you know, I had full access to most DOD (Department of Defense) activities and most of the stuff, broad programs that were enduring have never leaked. So the US and its allies are very good at keeping secrecies to include programs that are, we'll say global in nature. And really it's been leaking like a sieve in some weird way for many decades.
Now it's been mixed in with some BS in the ufology and stuff, but the general gist of it's actually been out there for a long time. It has been leaking in some sense. I guess I want to open it up. I just want to ask like, why don't we discuss like cognitive biases just in general, you know, like where you grew up defines like, okay, if I look up at something in the sky and I'm looking for something and I really want it, then it's going to be true. Or maybe it's the fact that as a child, you saw aliens that were green and they had antennas. And so, I don't know,
I guess I'm just wondering why we're coming to conclusions about it existing. Oh yeah. Because I'm skeptical, I guess. I think maybe it's fabricated to an extent based on our beliefs. Yeah. It's like manifesting your own reality based on your, I know I totally get that.
Even some of the metaphysics and I was like super careful with confirmation bias and all that. And like, I came in skeptical that it was like the Fermi paradox or no, because Enrico Fermi was famously like, well, you know, where are they overtly landing on the white house lawn kind of thing. But because we have like tangible physical evidence, at least, you know, the US government does, uh, there is a, they're there on their existence, but like, what are they for like, you know, actually, you know, like we talked about, it's like, if they do exhibit bilateral symmetry and they're bipedal and everything, that's like, wow, what is the chance in biologically for them to develop in a similar way than us? What if it's an intelligence engineering beings to look like us for ease of contact? Totally worth looking into it. And I wish it was a area of study that, you know, wasn't stigmatized anymore and people can like, here's the data the government has. Figure it out.
The guy who's a tenured PhD Nobel nominee at Stanford who claims to have crashed parts with isotope ratios, not from this earth, who's studying it. You have a guy at Harvard who's a head of the astrophysics department who has set up an entire Institute that is setting up sensors to find these things. We should never evangelize or proselytize. The answer being there are definitely aliens, but I think it's like reality is a lot weirder than we think probably due to a lot of empirical stuff that people have picked up and it's our job to like look into it.
This is more about like getting people to ask bigger, better questions rather than necessarily have answers. What we're creating with, you know, with Dave and Jesse, like this becomes an invitation for people to look deeper into this and we're going to make sure that we're going to leave in the description, like the list of things to read, things to watch interviews to check out. Yeah. My biggest outrage was just like, wait,
if this was broadly studied like nuclear physics, right? How you make a nuclear bomb classified physics, not. And the sequestration of astrobiology, astrophysics, et cetera, where you could build undergraduate graduate and postdoctoral programs, a record to actually study this shit openly. Holy shit. That's like way better. And we can, you know, you know, potentially develop novel solutions for energy, et cetera. Who knows?
But no, it was sequestered because it's like this like arms race thing. I'm like, man, this is ridiculous. And that was another reason why, you know, I whistleblowed Has this changed your perception on theology? I grew up Roman Catholic as a kid, the whole confirmation thing, CCD, and all that, you know, it was reasonably religious, but nothing like crazy kind of average studied physics. I became kind of agnostic. I was like, eh, I don't know about this, all this kind of woo woo, you know, stuff that the church exposes and stuff. And then oddly enough,
I've kind of come full circle. I think about the people, the journey I had and the most random people that I've known that were placed in my life like 14 years ago, you know, shut the door in my office at the NGA and were like, look, dude. And you know, they started telling me all this stuff that I was on and they brought these like crazy Intel reports that I was like, I can't believe I'm reading this. And it was like so wild. I mean, really, I'm not like trying to be hyperbolic at all. And yeah, I guess I've kind of come full circle. It's like really weird journey. Yeah.
I don't know. What does the future look like? I mean, it seems like all we can do is research right now. Yeah. What is happening next is I know there's some Intel officers and other people in and out of government that are about to file complaints similar to what I did because they said, fuck it, you know, and then they were on these programs like firsthand dudes, you know, not people telling me stuff like literally the dudes touching the stuff. February of 2024 we should have a presidential panel on UAP disclosure, looking at the crash retrieval issue and everything.
And then within 300 days of the enactment of the act, we're going to get some kind of, I think, government statement next year on this topic. The tsunami wave is building and I don't think we're going to totally backpedal anymore. Other than that, it would be totally speculation, but that's at least what's going to come. I think 2024 is going to be knock on wood, potentially wild in a good way. So yeah. Do you think this is going to make countries and especially the U S adversaries work together or kind of push them apart? I'm hoping it's going to be deescalatory when it comes to pure competition.
And like we have bigger things to either look at, worry about, et cetera. And I don't, I understand it's not going to create some utopian society where nobody's going to care about feudalistic dominance, like, you know, Russian, China, South China sea, Ukraine, whatever. But I hope that it's like a moment of pause where people can be like, okay, we need to look at our priorities and at least come together in some sense more than we are now. So I think it's a uniting thing versus a dividing thing. I hope that's a result of what I did. That'd be good for me.
Cause I, you know, I was in war and I've seen the evils of the world and I'd rather not, you know, keep on going. Humanity's not going down a good path right now. I think everybody can agree it's divergent, both sociologically and there's these very dangerous hot wars that could lead to like a world war three type scenario.
Yeah. I think there's something so beautiful in like us reassessing our, our entire existence and really figuring out how do we move forward if, if reality is even crazier than we ever thought. And the only thing we can do is to influence our local environments and just be as good and as kind and as loving as we possibly can. And that's, what's gonna, you know, ripple into this greater reality that we're a part of. I hope you guys realize like how truly unique slash historic this is. There is certainly millions of people after yesterday that would want to be in this room having this conversation.
So it is really, really wild that we get to have this opportunity. Thank you for sitting. Yeah.
I'm proud of the crazy spark. The crazy spark is that we're going home with him today. Like we're flying back to Colorado. So now we're about to go to Dave's house. Everyone is trying to do their best to be as sensitive and, and caring about the topic as much as possible. As he said the other day, he raw, he would use rather not to do this and rather want someone else to do it, but it feels that they have to do it and they have all my respect.
There's this quote saying that speak even if your voice is shaking. The thing with Dave is that his voice never shakes. It feels like he's the most confident man I met in years. It's beautiful. Yeah. So we don't film the exterior.
Yeah. Just making sure nobody knows I live here. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Yeah, I love.
It feels pretty surreal to be in his house right now, like his phone has not stopped ringing, hanging up on reporters all day. He's such a cutie, you're such a cutie. How were you feeling during it (the hearing)? I probably cried through the first hour of it, just like relief and everybody treated him with respect.
Everybody had done their research, like I think it just went so well. From the previous four years of him getting drugged through the mud, it was just a big relief. Yeah, absolutely.
And did you have any views or opinions on the phenomenon before it kind of came about? No, not really. I'm not a big sci-fi person. He would come home and tell me like general stuff and I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, there's probably aliens, like that makes sense. I think Dave is like inspiring people beyond this subject.
He dares to speak about something, gives the opportunity to other people to speak about something. He's enabling other people to speak their truth. For the next few hours, Jesse sat down with Dave for the most in-depth public interview that Dave has given to date. You can watch it on Jesse's channel, so please check it out after this one.
At this point, we had all been going non-stop on the topic since the hearing took place. So we decided to have a change of pace after Dave invited us out on an adventure. I had the fastest llama. At the end everybody was saying "Oh my God" because the llama was just going for it. Dave ran this morning in a llama race with his wife, they placed 17th, so.
Hi, buddy. Colorado tradition. I'm holding on for America.
So this is apparently one of Dave's favorite stuff to do in the world, so let's do some ATV together with him. To see Dave being Dave. I minored in German in college and I was majoring in physics, so I've just kept up with the language over the years. oh my god And before we said goodbye to Dave, we went on one last hike to get some answers to some of our biggest unanswered questions. Why did you decide to do this with us? I was watching your episodes and I liked their vibe.
A friend of mine two years ago was like, hey, you ever watch Yes Theory? And I have a decent subscription. You touch the younger demographic, it's uplifting, you're bringing cultures, you're uniting cultures and everything. And I thought that's great because as somebody who's unfortunately been on the side of state versus state and all that, seeing a different, more uniting kind of message, it was nice to see. And I saw how you affect a lot of people and just the positive vibes and I thought it would make sense to go through you guys. Over the past days, you shared with us that you were diagnosed to be on the autism spectrum. How has this served you in your life and in your career and how has it hindered you? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know that I was autistic until I was like in my early 30s.
And, you know, I always wondered why in my personal life, if I get fixated on something and obsessed, you know, what was going on with that. I mean, it served me well in the government because I was super good at, you know, doing Intel and like, you know, Dave, we want you to target this facility. Okay, you have six months, figure out everything, you know, and of course I do and it's, you know, that was very good. But I think, yeah, it obviously causes me to be very like detail oriented. I want to always tell the truth.
Your instinct is just to say it as it is. I have to. I have no filter. What would you tell like a normal person who is like processing all this? Would you give any advice? Or if you could give any advice to like a normal person watching, like what would you tell that person? Yeah, I mean, I empathize with kind of the shocking nature. It, you know, it enters, it's a weird thing to enter your worldview, right? You know, it's holy crap. But think about it.
We're just revealing another aspect of nature. It's just another discovery like, you know, you know, splitting the atom or the fact that, you know, the solar system is heliocentric and, you know, the Earth's not in the center. So, the humankind, we're not the apex of sentience potentially and there's, you know, other life out there, you know, whether you believe in God or not, nature paints with a broad brush. And we're just revealing another really, I think, exciting aspect of nature that I think that'll make us feel a lot less lonely.
Yeah. And I like what I was telling you about. I mean, like I think anybody who's like struggling with meaning or depression or whatever, I mean, maybe this will kind of help, you know, to get them excited. And for young people thinking about what they want to study and I hope this like inspires people to want to know more. I mean, it's a little scary to find out some pretty shocking things that really can change your worldview. But I think it's generally for the best, yeah.
My question on the people that I've come forward to because you said that they are colleagues and people that you've worked with for over a decade. I can't even imagine the psychological weight that is on one of the people that are in the program. How, on a personal level, how are they even existing? I think that they, you know, wanted to get the weight off their shoulder, kind of explain, you know, what they thought was wrong. And even though they signed a non-disclosure, they're patriotic, they're really good people. Like these are not evil people or anything like that.
But they thought it was a raw deal. Because the funny thing is if you're in a non-acknowledged program, you don't even know what you're getting briefed to when you are like, hey, we need you to sign NDA, you're going to be on something cool. What is it? We can't tell you until you sign. So, and then they sign it and then they see all the stipulations, how it's enforced. We're briefed in a very threatening manner.
And I think they probably wish they've never signed it, right? It just shows to the cynics too who are like, it would have come out. There'd be photos. There are sort of crazy controls in place, brutal enforcement. Yeah.
And what was the last special access program that leaked? They don't generally leak. No, people are like, oh, dude, wouldn't it be broadly leaked or whatever? I'm like, as somebody who is super cleared to a lot of that conventional stuff over the years, stuff never leaks. - Yeah. - It doesn't come out. There are plenty of things that are pretty serious, they're broad, that have never seen the light of day. You know, the psychology of the typical career government worker, right? Stable paycheck, pension, maintain clearance. So if any of that's threatened, you know, they're going to capitulate in most cases, right? And, you know, that was basically what happened to me, but I, you know, just decided to fight the system.
I stumbled upon this, which arguably is the most interesting and fascinating and exciting thing ever. Well, why would I go back to doing my normal job and just shutting my mouth and sitting in my office and doing regular national defense stuff? Because our priorities are not even right if this other thing is legit. Do you think the fact that your neurodivergent was this like curve ball, do you think that came into play? Because your response is so different than what... Yeah, I think my response is so analytical. I like don't even think about it emotionally.
My divergence really helped keep the train on the tracks, you know, looking at this stuff. They didn't consider my zest to continue the mission because, you know, once you get me going, you know, it's hard to pull the brakes on the train. Because we did something really special right after the hearing. The following morning, we just, you know, brought in the Yes Fam into the room.
And I would say this had to be your first time taking questions from the public like that, no? - Oh, 100%. - Yeah. - I've like never done that. Ever. - Wow. How did it feel to just be receiving questions that you just know that they're coming from curiosity, not an agenda? People seem genuinely interested. I mean, even if they were skeptical, that's super healthy.
Like, you shouldn't just be like, oh yeah, if he says it, it's totally legit. Well, do your own lit review or whatever. And I thought it was super cool, Yeah.
And that was cool to see what people were thinking. And it gives me kind of a pulse on, you know, non-government-y people and what they, what their concerns are, not media heads or whatever, right? One sort of bombshell soundbite from the hearing is Congresswoman Nancy Mace asked you about biologic. If you believe we have crashed craft, stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, uh, biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is a mind blowing side of it, right?
It's a little easy to imagine, you know, an artifact or whatever, but when you start talking about, you know, the biological side of it, it really throws you for a loop psychologically. It did for me. And, you know, I talked to the people that, you know, were on that aspect of, uh, the program, if you will.
And, uh, I mean, it comes with the territory. I mean, buckle up, I guess. It's, it's a thing. Were they alive? Were they dead? I don't want to get into specifics.
I know a lot of that stuff. Out of curiosity, why are you allowed to say that NHI (Non-Human Intelligenve) pilots came out of the craft, but you can't? Well, that's all I put in the pre-publication stuff that got approved. - I mean. - Got it.
I could go back and ask for more. Any specific knowledge I garnered when I was on the other side of the door, if I want to talk about that publicly, everybody who has had a job like I have, has to submit it to a thing called DOPSR at the Pentagon, DoD Pre-Publication Security Review. You know, even if it's about this stuff.
Like, I know it sounds insane, but like, you literally have to say like, this is what I want to talk about. Why do you think they approved it? Catch-22. Because, so they'd have to self-identify and highlight their concerns to redact. So, the office who would propose a redaction, say it's a three-letter agency or whatever. So, they would have to self-acknowledge. So, I think when I submitted that, they had a choice, right? Either we try to sequester Dave's ability to speak publicly and try to tell him no.
But then we have to give him a reason and tell him what organization said no. If it got redacted like that and it cited what organization and what security reason it is, I would just publish that. And then the public can, you know, make its own interpretation why, you know, the U.S. government's withholding information about that kind of thing and wanted to sequester my speech. You were also honest in the hearing and definitively said you hadn't seen the bodies. Is that right?
Not personally, no. - Not personally? - No. So, just people who, very high trust, you had sort of, you know, a lot of intersection career-wise with them. But they have.
The people that I interviewed have. And they were some of the people that were interviewed by the inspector general. Because that was the thing is like, you know, people are like, oh, hearsay, whatever. Okay, I understand secondhand. I literally brought the people firsthand to the authorities. I'm just here as the meeting monkey or the like unifier trying to bring everybody together and bring the people who do have that knowledge to the right people.
So, it feels also that this were the perfect set of circumstances for you to be the one that blows the whistle because firsthand knowledge would have put you in a completely different category of being able to disclose this stuff, right? If I became subject of a non-disclosure agreement by becoming a firsthand guy, actually would have hindered me and I would have never been able to do this. I think about some stuff I was denied access to. And thank God you are, right? And if I signed that non-disclosure agreement, I would have absolutely not been able to do this. - Wow. - Then you were like trapped. I would've been trapped.
So, it's actually weird that my lack of that. But knowing the people that do though. And I brought those people to the IG. Is the only way I was able to get... So, the actual reprisal stuff and the access denial stuff actually enhanced my ability to operate. But I will tell you, I talked to these people in the program.
They are just so afraid. Because the way it was enforced over the years, threatening nature of some of their indoctrinations where they're like, this is treason. You're going to Leavenworth. Have you ever tell anybody not in the program? And oh, by the way, what's the penalty for treason? Oh, right. Execution, right?
Did you ever at any point try to suss out whether you were being lied to? - Oh, 100%. - Because all of these people are coming from the same programs. And so, presumably, there's some level of coordination between them. So, how do you kind of get through and just make sure that they're not meeting in some backroom saying, you say this to Dave, I'll say this to Dave. Yeah, no. For sure. So like, I also went out of my way to find people who don't know each other either.
That like, you know, through methods like making sure I'm not getting circular reporting, not part of some other kind of faction that might want to push a certain narrative out. Me and I had higher ranking colleagues of mine go, who were part of the same effort in their official capacity, go talk to other people that I didn't even personally talk to, to keep that separation. So, they didn't know that they were feeding some of that information back to me.
And so, I had a bunch of people go out just to make sure I wasn't being targeted. I had other people conduct oral history interviews. But they were getting the same information.
We took all that. And I'm like, all the people who conducted those interviews, I made them get interviewed by the inspector general. Because we're crossing our T's here because this shit is crazy. And I was... I mean, you can never be perfect. But man, I was so freaking careful to make sure I wasn't getting fed some bullshit.
And the quality of people we talked to. If they ever go public, it'll blow your mind who we talked to. I mean, we're talking to some serious players that were like confirmed by the Senate, you know, years ago that we talked to. And I'll just leave it at that. I mean, I hope that they eventually go public.
I understand the reputational hazards, their hazards to their legacy. They might have a slightly different thought process than me about protecting the information and what should be acknowledged. But I think if they want to do the right thing before they kind of sunset, you know, in their lives, I think this would be a noble thing to do if they're watching right now. And, you know, they know who they are. And it'd be great. Yeah.
The past days have gotten me up to like, okay, I 90% trust this guy. This was like taking the 90 to 100. To be able to see that part and see his eyes light up in certain things that he talked about, that ultimately to me, that's my compass in my life.
It's not about someone giving me a set of information that I believe in or not, but it's a certain feeling that I get from another human. And that's ultimately, that's where this journey started. The growing curiosity of, you know, me meeting Melanie was in our Berkshire story who really like I felt such strong empathy towards her and being able to experience the same thing with Dave that I experienced with her just gives me that much more confirmation that this is a path that we're meant to be on, that we want to be on. We did it boys. We did it.
We did it. We did it. One of the most prominent and credible characters in the UFO world today is Dr. Garry Nolan, a name that you heard here a couple of times already. Garry Nolan has publicly stated, you know, he had weird stuff with the phenomenon as a kid. And this is a noble nominee, world-class cancer researcher, tenured professor at Stanford, extremely intelligent guy. And you know, he exposes like, look, I had a personal connection with the phenomenon.
There is a lot to be impressed by in regards to Dr. Nolan's accomplishments. He is an inventor, immunologist, a professor at Stanford University, a Nobel Prize nominee, and the list goes on and on. In my opinion, though, what I find most impressive about Dr. Nolan is his courage to be outspoken on his beliefs on the UFO phenomenon and his personal experience with it.
Jesse connected the dots once again, and Dr. Nolan agreed to meet us at his lab at the Stanford School of Medicine. This was developed by one of my postdocs, Mike Angelo, who's now a professor here. It actually reads metals. It's in a vacuum.
That's an iron gun. There it is. I feel so dumb right now.
Hello, hello, hello. Just seeing some UFO pieces. Yeah, we can pull that out again maybe towards the end.
Has discussing the topic and going deeper into the research affected your career negatively in any way? I'm sure a little bit. You know, I mean, I know that there are people who've said, you know, oh, Gary, what's he doing? You know, but first of all, I don't care. But even before I got involved with UFOs, I had plenty of ideas that everybody said, well, that's not going to work. - Yeah. - Or why are you doing that? And I was like, I know it's going to work. Because people pushed back, pushed you back on like wanting to start companies earlier on your career. Right?
Well, they said you shouldn't. You're an assistant professor. You shouldn't be starting a company. Why? I mean, if you let other people define your life and what the questions you can ask, stop. Amen.
Right. So just go for it. No one else is going to do it.
If, if you are so have a burning desire to do it, you're going to let the people stop it. Imagine other people who don't have your confidence who are also being stopped. I've always thought that if the implications of the secrecy around the phenomenon, if true, then it's probably the biggest violation against science that has ever existed. - Right. - Because we've kept it secret.
We've prevented some of the brightest minds that have walked on this planet to look into it. - Right. - That's infuriating. Oh, yeah. Oh, for me, what infuriates me is lost potential. - Yeah. - So that's an example of lost potential. You know, my personal anecdotes are not enough. If I want to convince scientists, there has to be a scientific approach to the whole thing.
And now I'm sort of in the right place at the right time with the right tools and the right talents to do it. I mean, it's almost amazing that I have the kinds of analysis tools in my laboratory alone that are sufficient to allow me to ask some of the questions that will answer what some of the materials are and how they're put together. Whether it's real or not, it's a phenomena that multiple people experience.
Enough people have experienced it that, as we were talking earlier, asking the question about it is going to lead to an answer no matter what, and it's going to be an interesting answer. If it's some sort of delusion, why do people have the delusion? I mean, that's the easy way to explain it away. But if it has some kind of reality, that's even more interesting. So, you know, it's worth asking. Why do you think we've shut down every person that have tried to ask these questions up until a couple of years ago? People have a mindset about what reality is and how it's composed.
You could probably go a thousand years ago to a village somewhere and say, hey, there's a bunch of people who live in the next village or on an island somewhere, and they don't look like us. And you would get a lot of people going, oh, I don't believe it, because it's effort to change your worldview or to use your brain. So I think that's just sort of built into our psyche, to be inherently conservative.
There's something worth studying here. It is not understandable in human terms. I look at something like that and I say, wow, okay, I can now imagine all kinds of different possibilities of what it might be, which as a scientist gets me excited. I don't mind a critic. I just don't want for you to position it to shut them down and not ask the question in the first place, because that is what holds everybody back. Suddenly I had in my laboratory a whole bunch of instruments of different flavors that could work on metals.
And so around that time, I bet Jacques and others, and I said, hey, we've got this stuff, you know, and here's like a whole bunch of them, right? We've got this stuff, much of which is metals. Can you help us? And what's the order? These are all mostly through Jacques. Claimed to be from debris left over, something left behind, something that dropped off a aircraft, these molten metals that are often seen. Jacques has spent an enormous amount of time over the decades tracing the stories, getting a chain of custody, speaking to the people individually, speaking to the people around the people, and accepting nothing as it's told, but distilling it down to a set of things some of which he was able to share with me. From how many countries? Brazil, United States, France. There's this perception that this is an American phenomenon.
This only happens in America, so that's why I asked. No, it's not. I mean, it's just, it's just, it's reporting bias, that's all. Yeah. It's just reporting bias. You know, I published the first ever peer-reviewed paper on that, and that was from a molten metal that fell in an area called Council Bluffs, that many people had seen this glowing object that had lights rotating around it, and then they saw something drop from it, and it was glowing, and then they arrive, including the police arrive, and there's a big pool of molten metal on the ground. Okay, why? What is it? So I look at this, and it's interesting in and of itself, but like, well, okay, well, why does a UFO need to drop molten metal? I don't know.
So, when you look at that, or you look at another one, this is from somebody in Australia, which is another metal that dropped off of something, and he has, I mean, I have big chunks of it. It's like, he says, this just, you know, it has a story behind it that is worth, you know, follow-up, and so, okay, well, that's not the same as that. Yeah. Okay, so, and there's another one that I've got, which is from here in California, and so here you have three or four different things that appear to drop something.
They have a good story behind them, and so what's the similarities? What's the difference? What is it? I don't know yet, and again, I'm not going to say this proves anything. I'm just going to say, here's the range of things that people have, and here's the stories that look in the appendices about the details of the story, and here's what they're made of. What's the most interesting data right now that you've found? Looked at certain isotopes in the material, and found that one of them had natural magnesium ratio, and the other had magnesium ratios that were so far off Earth normal, but the only way you could interpret them, frankly, is that they were engineered, or they were part of an industrial process that resulted in them, because there's no reason to do it. I mean, right now, we just use the mix. We use whatever we dig out of the ground, and it's got 80% 9 and 11, let's say, of the three different isotopes, and the percentage is adding up to 100, and we use it, but it turns out that actually physicists and chemists are starting to realize that there are subtle differences that can be used to accomplish electronic goals down at the atomic level that the general mix doesn't do. People have done sort of like elemental and some isotopic analysis of these things, but I'm going to go to the next level.
I'm going to get the atomic positions of things in a volume to show how the atoms are organized. So you're basically developing the instrumentation now to be able to even go deeper. Yeah. Well, there's instrumentation available that I'll use to do this, but I'm tweaking it in a way that will make it even better. For a closing question, if you have a message to the world at this very interesting moment that we're living, as we're seeking discomfort and realizing that we might not be alone, we've never been alone. Well, I think that if seeking discomfort is the catchphrase of the moment, realize on the other side of discomfort is pleasure, and if pleasure is information, and for most people like me it is, then this is probably the most pleasurable moment ever, that we will realize that we're not alone, that there's others, and to me it's actuall