State and Federal Regulatory Changes for Online Programs
Kim Scalzo: up the slide deck and i've done that already. Kim Scalzo: it's really great to see everybody here this morning, thanks for joining us, we have a put together a panel to talk this morning about all of what's happening in the state and regulatory space and some of the changes that have happened recently, and we should be thinking about. Kim Scalzo: i'm really thrilled actually to be able to facilitate this panel with the folks that we have here i'm going to just do a very brief introductions because their full bios are on the website, but. Kim Scalzo: David can tapa who many of you know, is associate provost for academic programs planning and assessment at suny system admin and. Kim Scalzo: He is kind of our go to person at suny system admin, for you know all of our interactions with our state and federal regulatory agencies and his team.
Kim Scalzo: Does all the program review for Sunni programs so really glad to have David here. Kim Scalzo: russ Poland from wc et and which he is here, and I really appreciate us taking some time very early this morning I think it's like six or 7am for you russ is that right. Kim Scalzo: Seven yeah so really appreciate you getting up so early to be with us to. Kim Scalzo: share some some of the national perspective with us russ I think is well known in the policy area and often brings I think a really. Kim Scalzo: You know kind of realistic perspective to what to all these policy changes mean for us, and how can we think about them.
Kim Scalzo: From institutional perspective so really looking forward to hearing russell's comments, and then we have also frank Vander ball care, who is dean of the school of social and behavioral sciences at empire state college and also interim dean of digital learning innovation and and strategy. Kim Scalzo: In the school for undergraduate studies so and frank is here to really provide the kind of campus perspective, what does this mean, as a campus within Sunni. Kim Scalzo: How are they thinking about how his empire state thinking about what all these what the you know policy changes. Kim Scalzo: mean for the campus How are they organizing How are they responding etc, so we thought this might be a good kind of way to think about all of these things that are happening and. Kim Scalzo: This is kind of the structure of the panel so we're going to start off with David talking about what's happening from the stated US Department of ED and middle states perspective i'm going to give a few updates.
Kim Scalzo: From the nc Sara perspective what's happening and what resources should you be aware of their russ is going to. Kim Scalzo: share a little bit of that national perspective and then frank, is going to share a little bit of the campus perspective, and we do have time planned in for questions and discussion, because we know that. Kim Scalzo: Some of you have some questions, we hope that you brought them to the session feel free to interject them in the chat as we are going and. Kim Scalzo: we'll if it's a if it's you know, a clarification as we're going along we'll address them immediately, but otherwise we'll come back to them at the end of the session okay so without further ado i'm going to jump right in and turn it over to David to talk about the. Kim Scalzo: State and middle states and USD perspective, so they would just, you know as a reminder just say next when you're ready for me to go to the next slide. David Cantaffa: sounds good Thank you so much, Kim, then you can go to the perfect Thank you.
David Cantaffa: um so first i'm going to start with the New York state education department. David Cantaffa: there's not very much new here, but I just want to make sure that you're all aware of certainly that there's the extended flexibilities through spring 21 for distance education. David Cantaffa: which allows you to offer programs via distance education without from the registering them, even if they reach that 50% threshold um apparently the state education department has not released guidance for post spring 21. David Cantaffa: they're really figuring out how to approach the process. David Cantaffa: What they don't want to do is to have campuses rush to register programs via distance education format, just for the sake of temporarily offering.
David Cantaffa: programs in that format that then that format would be removed so so right now, I would suggest that if your intent is to temporarily offer a program via distance education to decode. David Cantaffa: That related to the state education department you do nothing until we find out from them what the process is You might recall that last October, they said that they were. David Cantaffa: soon going to be implementing it announcing that process they're still working on that.
David Cantaffa: i'm just, though, if you are going to be permanently offering programs via distance education certainly go go and submit that application. David Cantaffa: To permanently add that format to the register program it's not likely that we're going to see be see an expedited application form or process or the permanent offering of a program via distance education, I do want to note that this. David Cantaffa: This is all happening, the context of an item that's in the executive budget regarding academic program review and approval it's an item that has been you know floated before. David Cantaffa: And in turn down but there may be more traction this time around, and the item would actually remove the state education department from program review and approval.
David Cantaffa: For an you know most programs, you know other than licensure qualifying programs or programs that require a master plan amendment and for most institutions, those that are in good standing with the accrediting agency. David Cantaffa: You know it's just an executive budget right now it's subject to sort of negotiation there's been some testimonials on it already and we'll see whether or not that goes forward, but if that does go for it, that may change. David Cantaffa: happens, not just in distance education, but more broadly in the program review and approval process. David Cantaffa: Next slide can.
David Cantaffa: Thank you. David Cantaffa: One thing i'll mention more about stated is data does not have very much policy in fact there's nothing regulatory specific to distance education, which is okay i'm not saying that there should be more policy but, but here on the screen really is. David Cantaffa: The one policy, the second bullet point there regarding courses offered in distance education it's about the calculation of learning time. David Cantaffa: You know, in the typical sort of what happens in the 15 minutes of instruction and then supplementary assignments see three through that again it's not very much detailed. David Cantaffa: One of the key questions that's rising, and that has been raised before and they even more so because of the pandemic and shifts to online is what will be the allowance for.
David Cantaffa: Clinical experiences laboratories things like that, via distance education via simulation things like Tele health telus supervision. David Cantaffa: All of those things have been happening and and the question is to what extent will stay that support those things. David Cantaffa: Moving forward an irregular matter, not just because of you know, temporary, need I just say as an example, this weekend I had an eye exam.
David Cantaffa: That was done through telehealth there was a technician and an optometrist who were remote they they came up on the computer screen they had fully remote access to all the apparatus that they do for the. David Cantaffa: For the exam and and so you know those the high quality. David Cantaffa: things that are happening in practice and our students, as they prepare for practice really need to be having that as part of the practice not seen as something of lesser quality but, in fact, in some cases of greater quality.
David Cantaffa: But also have necessary knowledge and skill, because that's what's happening practice so we're hoping and we've begun conversations with the state education department and other entities. David Cantaffa: To really push that question forward to you know allow those kinds of experiences so i'm going to step away from the state education department and move to middle states. David Cantaffa: Next slide Thank you and I just have one slide here and i'm going to actually start here with if you're going to be offering permanently offering programs via distance education, what do you need to do and i'm starting with permanent because temporary is going away soon.
David Cantaffa: So, and again, you probably know, this at the institutional level, you need the distance education has an alternative alternative delivery method within your scope of accreditation. David Cantaffa: For your first program offered via distance education and you do that through substantive change in the suny system, nearly all student campuses have institutional level approval to offer. David Cantaffa: programs permanently via distance education at the program level, and this, you know there's some things that because of the pandemic might have gotten buried a little bit, but something that went into effect as of July, one of. David Cantaffa: Is that at the program level every program every existing program to what you add distance education format to. David Cantaffa: You need to be notifying middle states that you've done that, and it's relatively simple process through the portal saying here's the program here's the you know one paragraph description you hit submit and then you're done. David Cantaffa: But just to make sure that you're doing that for any program that has just said permanently part of the program design that you're notifying middle states of that tradition for anything that's added on to an existing program after July one of.
David Cantaffa: Real quick shift to what happens if you're temporarily offering programs, to be a distance education due to coven 19 so as you all know that middle states is allowing. David Cantaffa: That at the institutional level to may 30 of this year, have you have to have an approved waiver for the spring semester, if you don't have the alternate alternate delivery method is part of your scope of accreditation. David Cantaffa: After spring 21 if you don't have the alternative delivery method of distance education as part of your scope of accreditation, you must have a. David Cantaffa: submitted substantive change requests by actually march 1 So hopefully people that are in the situation know this already again for Sunni institutions, this is not really an issue because we generally have institution level approval. David Cantaffa: But you do need to have that added to your scope of accreditation and as the program level, there was some sort of back and forth last summer and fall.
David Cantaffa: And, initially, we were told that all campuses need to submit notifications for the temporary offering of programs via distance education that shifted this January, so if you're just temporarily offering programs via distance education you don't need to submit. David Cantaffa: notifications to middle states and again that's for if you already have institution level approval it's those subsequent programs that i'm referring to there. David Cantaffa: that's it from middle states, I really wanted to move, and I think the focus is going to be on the US Department of Education federal regulation changes.
David Cantaffa: And also again it's one of those things that could have been lost because of the timeline so So these are effective, the new regulations and distance education, innovation are effective July one of 2021. David Cantaffa: This emerged from negotiated rulemaking that you know began really in 2018 and primarily in. David Cantaffa: On the proposed regulations were published in April of last year, so right in the middle of the start really have covered. David Cantaffa: Public comment period ended in May, there are about 200 and some odd comments submitted, and then the final regulations were published just at the start of the fall semester on September 2 the link, there is the link to. David Cantaffa: The page that has the full set of regulations, as opposed to the executive summary, I will say that is a good read and I really actually really mean that and I think that people should be.
David Cantaffa: should be reading the regulations what they include are the summary of the public comment. David Cantaffa: The discussion from the Department of Education, as well as any changes that they made due to the public comment, and it really gives you some good insight as to. David Cantaffa: The process by reading through the entirety of the regulations, including the whole comment discussion and possible changes and and really in the to do section here I think that's something that ought to be done. David Cantaffa: You know by by a group of people, you know, including academic financial aid and so forth, to look at policies processes and practices. David Cantaffa: Regarding related to the regulations and then to determine the need to update those policies processes and practices.
David Cantaffa: and to make sure that all of the decision making that's happening is as well documented and this is something that I know frank and rust will be touching on and enforcing as well before we jump off this slide I want to make. David Cantaffa: So I participated, the rulemaking was not just about distance, education and innovation, there are other aspects and. David Cantaffa: I was on the teach grant subcommittee of negotiated rulemaking and I just want to say that you know, in terms of policy development regulatory amendment, I found the process to be really. David Cantaffa: To look like very good and in that and it's deliberation.
David Cantaffa: You know, we were presented with the the originally proposed language that the members of a subcommittee really did represent a range of knowledge. David Cantaffa: and skill and background and place of employment and role in that place of employment, we had great debate about the initially proposed language we ended up modifying initially proposed language. David Cantaffa: And really came to consensus, it was probably one of the most deliberative processes i've been involved in in policymaking that didn't end because people were tired. David Cantaffa: Because people really I thought and I guess, I should say i'm speaking for myself here, but it seemed like a deliberative process in which we. David Cantaffa: were able to just hash out what was in front of us and again not ending just because we were tired and we wanted it done so, so I just if if the process that led to the distance education, innovation.
David Cantaffa: Changes with with similar to the teach grant I would say it was a good process so what's going to fall here are just. David Cantaffa: You know, some selected definitions from the new regulations as sort of a broad overview, again, I know, frank and rest will go a little bit further. David Cantaffa: There again, various parts of the the mended regulations and really looking at them in detail is is important, so the first here is. David Cantaffa: There is some clarification about the definition of distance education, especially as related to correspondence courses which are markedly different than distance education, and you can see here what that that new definition is it's about. David Cantaffa: Importantly, you know regular and substandard interaction between the students and instructor either synchronously or asynchronously and their gift some examples, they swept away old examples of technologies like CD Rom. David Cantaffa: And decided not to put in current examples, because things can change, which is why the last bullet is around other media used in conjunction with other technologies i'm going to go to the next slide actually moment.
David Cantaffa: Thank you, and so this is key so substandard interaction and regular interaction and what do these mean. David Cantaffa: And then again russ I know, especially it's going to go into this, but. David Cantaffa: Substantive interaction is making sure that you know faculty are engaging students and teaching learning and assessment consistent with the content hundred discussion. David Cantaffa: That includes least to the following items within the bulleted list there.
David Cantaffa: And importantly, that the same substandard interaction has to be regular and regular in this case means predictable and scheduled and that's whether this is synchronous or asynchronous. David Cantaffa: And importantly, that the Faculty member is earth instructor I should say is monitoring student academic engagement which there's a definition of as well and that the instructor is responsible for the for the. David Cantaffa: You know, initiating that engagement, as well as responding to students requests for engagement what's really important is to be going through. David Cantaffa: Again, the policies practices and policies processes and practices on campus to make sure that what is happening is meeting the the standard of substantive in regular interaction and, if not adjusting those things next slide.
David Cantaffa: Academic engagement was defined, and this is really important, this is really happening across education levels, including in pre K to 12 is being sure that. David Cantaffa: Students are not just passively sort of clicking in you know and then clicking out and getting sort of credit for that, but they're actively participating. David Cantaffa: And instructional activity and again, this is a you know the definition, you can read here or afterwards, but really says that. David Cantaffa: You know the students are actively doing these things, not just passively doing things are doing things just to sort of check a box of yes, I did a blog today um. David Cantaffa: Okay let's go to the next slide. David Cantaffa: And this is my last slide and again this is really just a set of jumping off points here.
David Cantaffa: I want to mention this piece it's about clock hours for clock our programs, I know, most of our programs are not clock our programs. David Cantaffa: But there's something interesting that came about in this, which is initially asynchronous was not. David Cantaffa: going to be included in the definition of of this, but then through lots of feedback the department adjusted and included a synchronous instruction or an asynchronous learning activities in the definition. David Cantaffa: And so I just I think that's an important thing, but what was interesting in that is in including asynchronous that definition four o'clock hour includes. David Cantaffa: The responsibility of the institution that the instructor to ensure that they're monitoring and documenting the time that a student participates in the activity. David Cantaffa: And so that's a really important thing on it, and certainly there are lots of technologies that do allow for that, but I just wanted to raise that.
David Cantaffa: As something that is of interest monitoring as part of distance education broadly so that's not new but but certainly four o'clock hour. David Cantaffa: it's just it's interesting and, if you read the regulations you'll see that back and forth the commentary and the discussion from the Department. David Cantaffa: as to why that should have been included, and ultimately they decided to include it. David Cantaffa: And so, with that I think i'm hit up against my 15 minutes here, I just want to give another push for reading the final regulations in their entirety and it's only about 70 pages or so and and again. David Cantaffa: The detailed sort of commentary, the discussion, as well as you know, other sorts of aspects of summary are really instructive to read and I think can be quite helpful as you pull together a team if you've not already. David Cantaffa: To go through the regulations and to figure out what you need to be doing on your campuses and I think those campuses that have already begun doing this, I know a number of campuses have already become doing that work.
David Cantaffa: But I also know that that is quite varied and there's some campuses that might not yet have become and so working with each other, I think can be quite helpful and thank you so much, I think, turning back to Kim now. Kim Scalzo: Thanks David and David and there are a couple of questions in the chat for you. Kim Scalzo: So if you I was going to stop and address them now, but I think you may be able to answer them in the chat So if you want to go ahead and do that if that's okay with everybody, and I will keep going, and we can come back to anything that needs more discussion at the end if that's okay. David Cantaffa: sounds good. Kim Scalzo: Okay, great thanks OK so i'm going to just hit on a couple of things, relative to nc Sara for those campuses that are members of the nc Sara consortium and and what I want to say is that. Kim Scalzo: If your campuses a member of Sarah and you are not following the announcements on the nc Sara site, there is, I gave you the link at the bottom of the page here, I would encourage you to do that.
Kim Scalzo: So and i'm just going to mention a couple things you know I don't think these are nearly as significant as some of the stuff that. Kim Scalzo: russ and David are talking about, but just to be aware of that reporting for fall descent said enrollment data and calendar year 2020 out of state learning placements is now available that recently opened and is, I think the reporting period is between. Kim Scalzo: Like March and June, so please pay attention to that when your campus does not get those reports submitted I get a reminder about that, as do I think folks in david's office, so I will follow up with you, but if you can all just be aware of that that would be great.
Kim Scalzo: And the. Kim Scalzo: proposed there are proposed Sarah policy changes for, thank you for putting that in the chat for the nc Sara board for consideration at their main board meeting, there is a feedback period that has been opened they've been talking about this, since the. Kim Scalzo: You know fall term that feedback is open, through this Friday, so there are a few policy changes and some. Kim Scalzo: Policy clarifications again, which I think are you know they're they're always scenarios behind why. Kim Scalzo: You know policy changes are made, and why they're clarifying language in the policy manual so I don't know exactly what those scenarios are, but they have to do some of them with changes in ownership of the institution. Kim Scalzo: And with how they're what the language is around some of the reporting, so you may just want to check that out, I have included actually I think I have a slide on each of these I have included the slide deck from a webinar they did on February 9.
Kim Scalzo: With. Kim Scalzo: The slides are all at the end of this deck So if you want to read them in detail, you can. Kim Scalzo: But I think it's just good for you to be aware of your Members of Sarah that that's there and then, finally, the last thing that I want to mention is that there are new institutional applications as of January 11. Kim Scalzo: They actually combine the new application and the renewal and there are just some clarifications around some of the consumer protection.
Kim Scalzo: You know kind of perspective that they're trying to be more forward, you know, putting more emphasis on so just to be aware of that and I do have. Kim Scalzo: A slide with details about each of those with the links to the nc Sara site, so you can see that and, again, these are all off of that announcements page. Kim Scalzo: So, and again for the policy changes and modifications, they are all at the end of this deck. Kim Scalzo: And Harris, the Info with the links on the new applications so that's where i'm going to stop on nc Sara because I really just wanted to highlight all of that for you.
Kim Scalzo: And i'm going to turn it over now to Ross who is going to share some perspectives from the role the various roles that he plays so R Us over to you. Russ Poulin: Oh yes, yeah Thank you very much for everyone, for having me here today again rest pool and executive director wc TV which you cooperate or educational technologies. Russ Poulin: I to get to serve on negotiated while making so you can feel sorry for David in me. Russ Poulin: For going through all that but, but actually it was a very, very good and interesting process and, as you can see, I read the Constitution as a hobby and if you haven't done that I sort of recommended at times let's move to the next next slide.
Russ Poulin: And then on that just a bit about wc T that well we're based in boulder Colorado and part of a regional compact and West, that we actually are a national organization. Russ Poulin: That is under that we've been around for a while and I love having Kim working with us. Russ Poulin: From Sydney online, but we'd also love to have more institutions dryness of institutions join us as well, and so you can find out more about us and we do a lot on policy areas let's move to the next slide.
Russ Poulin: Some things will going in depth, a little bit more in just a few few issues here so which that were were mentioned mentioned by David and you can see, the ones here that we're going to. Russ Poulin: To talk about and we could go on for quite a while on each of these, and so this is going to be a rapid run through on some of these. Russ Poulin: For you, and so let's go ahead and go to the next slide, and this is actually a rule on student identity verification. Russ Poulin: That that went into place last year it actually was part of the negotiated growing is making as well, some rules came out last year and went into place last July. Russ Poulin: Some are going into place this year so for any sorts of assessments will get into let's move to the next slide and we'll see what that what the expectations are there that. Russ Poulin: This is something that's been around for a while and that you may remember, I didn't I didn't put on here, but he may be remembered in the past that there was reading about.
Russ Poulin: That you could have a login Republic during or something for for this, and that was what happened was is that those were putting the originally as examples and those were taken out. Russ Poulin: And because the idea was that it looked like some institutions were just saying hey we have a login so we know who all our students are and we know who's taking the test and. Russ Poulin: And no one ever turned in a paper under somebody else's name, and so they thought, now we need that let's take those out. Russ Poulin: That does not mean that you have to go out and buy expensive software, but in some vendors are saying that that's not the case.
Russ Poulin: But let's look at some of the other things in there that so there was everything within the rulemaking that there is a lot more emphasis and it'll come up a couple of times about the. Russ Poulin: relationship between the accrediting agency and the institution and so there's a lot more faith in terms of there's a relationship. Russ Poulin: Between the accredited institution and so some of these i'm going to put the. Russ Poulin: The actual language up here that helps you in so the big thing is that you know the student who registers for the course. Russ Poulin: This is the same one who academically engages Thank you David he put up academic engagement up there before you put up that thing that was something I asked that they actually put in academic engagement and define it, so thank you that they did that.
Russ Poulin: So, but if the student who registers for the course is the one who's taking the quizzes who's the one who's turning in. Russ Poulin: The papers all sorts of things and so that you have some sort of process that you're doing that it's not required to be electronic you can practicing you can do. Russ Poulin: All sorts of sorts of things on that let's move to the to the next part of that, so you have to be checking for that the other thing, and this is the one that when I make this presentation and some people, people say what. Russ Poulin: You may want to pay attention to this, that if there are additional student charges. Russ Poulin: That you're supposed to let the students know about that at the time of registration, so if you have a product rating system or something or. Russ Poulin: They have to buy a camera or other sorts of things, if you are doing, one of those things and you're charging for it, or even for face to face practicing and there's a fee for face to face practicing.
Russ Poulin: If there's a if there's those sorts of fields and it's part of the class you're supposed to let them know at the time of registration and a lot of institutions have been saying well it's in our syllabus well that's too late, the idea is that students are supposed to be able to. Russ Poulin: understand all the fees and everything that they need to know up front when they register. Russ Poulin: So with that let's move to the next slide just some things that you need to be worrying about doing with this is that across each. Russ Poulin: Waiting for a little bit more clarity about what the creditors are actually going to do about this i've not seen any of the.
Russ Poulin: Agencies come out with super clear wording about this new relationship between the institution and the creditor and what you should be doing so hope hope that's coming. Russ Poulin: No, but you should have you know some sort of you know policies have some idea about what you're doing whether it's institution wide or, at least within. Russ Poulin: A program or you know, wherever you know you made can be different across programs because something might be appropriate for nursing, but not for business, etc. Russ Poulin: And then you know and start figuring out how you work into this and a lot of it is, I was just talking with folks in California and they're they're doing a lot with authentic assessment and trying to get away from.
Russ Poulin: Using predatory seo and those searches thing that the plugin portfolio, but practicing software, you know that you're trying to do things with developing faculty so the having more more different types of assessments that actually assess learning better heavens. Russ Poulin: That we should do that let's move. Russ Poulin: on to something completely different like I said this is fire hose time we're moving through some things really. Russ Poulin: quickly, and I want to talk about David mentioned about the change in the distance education definition and, with it, and that back in 1992 of these four words regular in substandard interaction room in there, it was never really fully defined. Russ Poulin: over time. Russ Poulin: Oh, I made a mistake here this rule is actually going into place July 1 2021 I apologize for the error on the slide and just kind of.
Russ Poulin: Get that get that fixed, but the thing that's helpful on this is that you need to set aside the word interaction in your mind. Russ Poulin: Because they're not really talking about interaction, as we think about it as academics and so will kind of let's go to the next slide no i'll talk about what we what we mean there so. Russ Poulin: let's go back and look at.
Russ Poulin: What the current role is up, you know what is currently in place until July 1 right now and there's never really been really clear guidance on this, and so Ben. Russ Poulin: Davis, and it works with us went back and looked at and tried to figure out okay well what in all the things they did give and then the findings that they had two places What were they looking for. Russ Poulin: In this first thing is that it's only initiated by the instructors all the accounts that's why I say set interaction in mind, because to me that's dissemination or that's teaching, you know, so the they're not counting student the student interaction or not counting student to. Russ Poulin: Student to teacher interaction and there's lots of reading reasons about trying to separate correspondence instruction from distant said instructions that they were looking to. Russ Poulin: Something that the institution and the Faculty does for or to the students and that's what gets counted in this and it's hard to people get their minds around. Russ Poulin: So in the old role that it was just just that.
Russ Poulin: That the instructor meets accreditation standards, and that was true up into the Wu audit and which they somebody changed their mind on that and so that's why there's the asterisk there and then that got. Russ Poulin: kind of overturned by the Department where they said Well he holding w to a standard to which was never published now kind of add. Russ Poulin: In in that substantive meant of an academic nature so you're talking about Shakespeare or binomial equations you know talking about the basketball game. Russ Poulin: And then regular was that is this was really regular and somewhat substance substitute in that.
Russ Poulin: That was really the most regular was regular right Okay, whatever that means and so let's move forward to what's coming now so that gave you some background to what was there let's move to the next slide. Russ Poulin: And with this, and so you'll see instructor was a big deal in the w audit because they were using instructional teams other places are using instructional teams. Russ Poulin: And that they were hit on that, and so we wanted to try to come up with something we really worked hard on trying to come up with something that was. Russ Poulin: A broader than just the one instructor of record record, because you could have PhDs or ga's or instructional teams, and all this, and so, how does that work and so. Russ Poulin: What we did is we we kind of tried all sorts of things went back and went to you know it's what the accrediting Agency says instructor and so.
Russ Poulin: we'll look for more guidance, I think, for now, but it provides is one of the things was in the Wu audit. Russ Poulin: When they got here was that the accrediting agency, I actually approve their model their instructor model, but then in the audit that they were hit by that and so that. Russ Poulin: You know, put them in a bad spot, and so this shouldn't be a big deal for you and let's see using some other other models or a well for using keys again is you know some of you probably all right let's move to the next slide. Russ Poulin: On this so extract instructor so substitute, and what that means in there in that just remember poor was just about content now it's about activities, this was a big change. Russ Poulin: In what they what they had on there, and so I should have underlined, also in the last part of that also include at least two of the following. Russ Poulin: i've had people in these presentations get wrapped around trying to do all of the following and so let's see what the following are now remind us from moving to that slide.
Russ Poulin: You need to do two of these and again, this is about distance education, how to get it that you provide direct instruction, that was not defined this actually was done in a committee above us that if I would have been on that committee, I would have made us define it. Russ Poulin: But we're thinking that might be synchronous for not quite sure we're hoping the department will do, then. Russ Poulin: Assessing feedback, you know, providing info and questions facilitating group discussions but but pretty much you should be able to get two out of those so, even if they. Russ Poulin: Indirect instruction if you're doing it asynchronously so you're doing the others you're doing the other three in unless you have a really poor asynchronous course. Russ Poulin: So, so that most of them, that you are doing these other things that you're doing something that has some substance substance to it. Russ Poulin: With that let's move back to the last one about regular this was hard and.
Russ Poulin: One of the things that that I was charged with doing is trying to help with things like competency based education and other things that are, by definition, not on a regular scheduled, so how we had to keep the word regular because that was in statute, and we had to define something that. Russ Poulin: Was regular of that was more expansive than we had, and we did all sorts of things let's move to the next slide here in terms of what we're able to able to come up with on the next slide in that we had two different things there and that the first part, really. Russ Poulin: had to do with the types of courses that are very much mirroring what happens on campus where they go along, and that three that you have a syllabus in three weeks in the course you're going to have a test and. Russ Poulin: You know that every Monday that you put out new content or new videos or something like that that that it's very predictable and you have it in the syllabus and you can show that somebody and it's there and going to be.
Russ Poulin: In so that is something that you can see that it's pretty you have some sort of predictability to it, the second part is what we were trying to do. Russ Poulin: was trying to get where you are actually monitoring the students engagement, much like we tried to do this alone competency based education. Russ Poulin: That really it's a little more unpredictable because you're moving more at the students students paste. Russ Poulin: That you're monitoring your engagement, does the student need help, and if you help them if they need it and you're seeing reasons that they needed or if the student asks for it. Russ Poulin: This is the one place where you know actually interaction beyond just what the Faculty does actually that makes sense.
Russ Poulin: And underwriting that word and in there because initially in my subcommittee that worked on this, we had the word or in there, as we were trying to make a difference between the two models about the. Russ Poulin: courses that that your face to face courses versus like competency based adaptive learning courses and then it could change the end, and so I think there's still. Russ Poulin: An orange make a big difference. Russ Poulin: So yeah you have to do both of these technically. Russ Poulin: On this, and so we still trying to figure out exactly exactly what you have to do, but I think, at least if you're doing. Russ Poulin: The first one if you're just the.
Russ Poulin: Regular type of schedule that course and i've know that I talked to my CV friends that they're figuring out ways to try to do things where there's something that is. Russ Poulin: They have on a schedule, where they're checking in with students on a scheduled basis and if you're trying to do that, but they're having having to come up with some workarounds for the first part okay let's move on. Russ Poulin: Just a few few more things here so.
Russ Poulin: This gives you kind of an overview of the things they said in the changes that that you. Russ Poulin: That you see there that you can see what what has changed through so made some some real differences, I think we're that. Russ Poulin: Really, we didn't get all the way there, but I think we're a lot farther into the 21st century than we were prior to this role coming up, and so I think we're getting there and we actually have some definitions around things and remember, I was saying that. Russ Poulin: institutions were being held to two definitions that we're. Russ Poulin: Changing.
Russ Poulin: That one group of the creditors are what reviewers would come in and they would interpret it one way. Russ Poulin: And another group of financial aid reviewers would be interpreted and other way now it's really part of institutions, and so this we're trying to not only protect students but protect student institutions as well with that we'll move on to the next. Russ Poulin: next one. Russ Poulin: So here, you know some things to do, you can spell interaction correctly i'd say that their own.
Russ Poulin: You can. Russ Poulin: Research, you know watching the creditors should be coming out with more on this, we will be coming out with more innocent w CT. Russ Poulin: will show you that that'd be CT i've put a couple of our frontiers blogs in there already and so be watching for our frontiers bond, you can subscribe for that for free, if you want, that will be doing more on on this issue, and then you know, in making sure that you're. Russ Poulin: That you're trying to address these things and let's move on to the last section that I have, and that is that for the regulations that i've chosen to talk about today there's not a clear black and white about what counts and what does not.
Russ Poulin: And for some things that that it's did you notify the student or did you not you can show that that you did it for these things they're more interpretation. Russ Poulin: As to what whether you've done these things or not so it's important that you put yourself ahead that you're sitting with your creditor. Russ Poulin: That you're sitting at a financial aid review and that you can show that you thought this through. Russ Poulin: You have policies you have practices you develop faculty so they need those policies and practices.
Russ Poulin: And that you can show that you have something that we call the defensible practice that you can when you're sitting there you can say yeah we thought this through and here's we've looked at. Russ Poulin: What you've written about this and we documentation about it and we actually put something that we thought through and that you document them so that's that's the best you can do that with that will move on to the next. Russ Poulin: Next, part of it we do this is to have several regulations, where we have. Russ Poulin: interpretations of what's happening, both in in posted because there were some. Russ Poulin: waivers that David had mentioned but there's also some changes that have happened, and so you can get this book, you can see, the second link there. Russ Poulin: That you're able to get to that and that this has some really helpful things and more in depth on this, and several other things.
Russ Poulin: In terms of when you're moving from face to face to digital learning and so can be all sorts of other hopeful things that are not frontiers blog there let's start let's move to the next slide. Russ Poulin: And with that okay yeah and I guess just that's last one i'm done thank, thank you for everything, I know I see there's lots of questions, I know I can do these things about regulate substantive and have two hours of questions so that doesn't surprise me so Kim alternate back to you. Kim Scalzo: Thanks, for us, and there are David has been answering a lot of questions in the chat. Kim Scalzo: You may want to just kind of glance back through as well as. Kim Scalzo: frank, is doing his section to see if there's anything you want to add to and then we'll we'll come back at the end to anything we haven't addressed in the chat okay.
Kim Scalzo: Excellent great OK frank over to you. Frank Vander Valk: Great thanks Kim and I know there are a lot of questions so i'll just go through very quickly what we've done at Mr psychology to try to prepare for these changes, and if you can go to the next slide can. Frank Vander Valk: So when the regulation came out in draft form for public comment, we got a hold of that and gave some public feedback and anticipating they weren't going to change drastically, except for an end to or an orange and here in there. Frank Vander Valk: We started thinking through what the implications are and how we would want to handle our response at empire state college. Frank Vander Valk: So when the final regulations came out We convened a task group in fall 2020 to explicitly look at this. Frank Vander Valk: And again, part of the idea was, from the very beginning to create a defensible practice.
Frank Vander Valk: recognizing that there's these new regulations, there is still a middle states and other accrediting agencies to weigh in interpretations to your colleague letters and so on, would be forthcoming. Frank Vander Valk: So we tried to balance between kind of reacting to the regulations and not overreacting and kind of waiting. Frank Vander Valk: For guidance where we're guidance is going to be helpful in the medium to longer term. Frank Vander Valk: But this task group that we convened included faculty instructional designer its members of deep integration and Members from governance. Frank Vander Valk: And when it got together we reached out to her governance structures and faculty bodies, just to make sure everybody was in the loop and start to socialize the institution to the changes that we're going to be forthcoming, so that it didn't drop out of the sky in the spring.
Frank Vander Valk: So, of course, when the final language chemo we looked at that and wonderful resources from wc et and other places, and we made a very deliberate. Frank Vander Valk: goal of documenting all our meetings and decisions, including draft feedback on drafts and so on, just in case it was ever needed, having just gone through middle states review. Frank Vander Valk: We recognize it would be easier, just to collect all this stuff at the time it was happening, rather than go back eight years later, and try to recreate the meetings and so on, so we'll Have a nice little package, the documents, all these petitions and you can go to the next one can. Frank Vander Valk: So initially we focused on the regular substantive interaction peace and just to make sure that we are compliant come this summer, with that aspect of it. Frank Vander Valk: And so, where we're headed and I should stress that these are just graph recommendations that are still kind of making their way through the final approval processes that are set college.
Frank Vander Valk: But we're going to lean heavily on the instructional design teams and the instructional design processes to. Frank Vander Valk: Have these conversations with course developers subject matter experts, so that the courses are designed. Frank Vander Valk: in such a way that all of the new regulations are attended to, in the design process and it will be part as you'll see in a couple of slides part of the rubric that we apply. Frank Vander Valk: When we're going through the course design process and part of that has been starting to do professional development, with the instructional design teams, as I said, including them in this.
Frank Vander Valk: task group from the beginning, but then also giving them an opportunity to do more professional development, set aside time. Frank Vander Valk: So that when we switch over to these new design processes and expectations everybody's up to speed on the technical pieces, how to do it, but also. Frank Vander Valk: At least conversant in the why why we're doing these things so we're basically revising our version of Oscar to include some checks for the new regulations.
Frank Vander Valk: On the monitoring aspect of the regular engagement we're improving some of our reporting from our learning management system here at student success team to the Faculty. Frank Vander Valk: And we really did stress in our internal conversation is the prompt and proactive language in the regulations about faculty interaction based on that monitoring or the student requests for additional help. Frank Vander Valk: And so we just wanted to make sure that we're closing the loop that when. Frank Vander Valk: We see some monitoring for whatever it could be factually looking at a student to the same they're you know they're struggling with grades, or it could be engagement to the LM s. Frank Vander Valk: We want to make sure that there's a loop closings for the weekend document not only were the family made aware of this, but action was taken, where there were thresholds reached on the monitoring.
Frank Vander Valk: And so that's the Faculty notifications again just adding these new steps. Frank Vander Valk: And then we're just kicking off this month, and it will continue through March and April. Frank Vander Valk: college wide professional development, which will be targeted groups like instructional designer some faculty who work, specifically with online programming, but then also college wide. Frank Vander Valk: webinars and meetings so on, which will include groups like the registrar's office, but also our decision support team, which is essentially our institutional research faculty for reporting purposes, so can we can go to the next one.
Frank Vander Valk: And just to include in the slides what we've done is just updated I said, some of our rubrics and we wanted to put these slides in and it came, I think you can probably just go to the next one is from the interest in time. Frank Vander Valk: We can share this when we share the slides and if anybody out there. Frank Vander Valk: wants to talk with our instructional design team about how we're handling it or just touch base with the outcome of our experience, please feel free to reach out to myself and i'll put you in touch with the right people on campus just to kind of talk through how we're. Frank Vander Valk: doing some of our professional development and working with our faculty and designers on this as well.
Frank Vander Valk: But mostly you can see we're just be more deliberate about documenting the fact that this needs to be done, make sure that there's a checklist so that we can go through. Frank Vander Valk: In case there are any questions along the way, and also just to create an opportunity for conversation with our subject matter, experts and developers as we're going through the course development process and the revisions. Frank Vander Valk: And yes, marine absolutely will share the revised rubric. Frank Vander Valk: i'll put my contact information in the chat box afterward and can we can go to the next one here.
Frank Vander Valk: And I think as as russ was alluding to this is a an art as much as a science in our initial conversation I got I got a lot of questions about tell us exactly what we have to do, and not only were some things left undefined like what director instruction is. Frank Vander Valk: Some things were left undefined purposefully because we didn't want to overreact and say here are the four options, you have for meeting the guideline, so what we came up with. Frank Vander Valk: Again, more for conversation with the developers than anything else is the idea that you're really kind of on a range right you want to be kind of towards the Green and.
Frank Vander Valk: for making sure that you're in compliance with the regulations you don't want to be putting out to stuff that it's essentially going to make use of correspondence courses. Frank Vander Valk: But there are so many tools that can move you from kind of the red end of the spectrum to the green end of the spectrum. Frank Vander Valk: Rather than try to say you must use three of the five following tools we left that to the designers and the course subject matter experts. Frank Vander Valk: To make a determination, based on the subject matter, based on the kind of level of the course and other course characteristics as to what tools what approaches would be good.
Frank Vander Valk: To have that kind of scheduled and predictable opportunities for interaction to have that monitoring to have those. Frank Vander Valk: One or two of those five categories that russ outlined and. Frank Vander Valk: We didn't spend a lot of time looking at the categories, because a quick scan so we have robust design processes in place, we were already doing a lot of those you know.
Frank Vander Valk: Three, if not four, in some cases of those kind of options for the subset of engagement, so we really focus more on the schedule and predictable opportunities on the monitoring piece for phase one. Frank Vander Valk: And that's again just a very quick overview i'll. Frank Vander Valk: be happy to kind of address anything else that comes up in questions, but I I see we're up to 60 questions in the chat or so so maybe just pass it back to Kim. Frank Vander Valk: and invite anybody else to get in touch with me if they want to go through a little bit more detail about what our experience on a campus was. Kim Scalzo: Thanks so much frank and thank you to our entire panel, I think there was a lot of really great information.
Kim Scalzo: That got shared certainly a lot of really great discussion in the chat we do have a few minutes left for questions before I go back through the chat I just want to mention that we have. Kim Scalzo: sounds like we are going to try and do a follow up discussion at the next doodle meeting russ for your benefit doodle is the directors of online. Kim Scalzo: and distance learning environments and Sunni, those are basically arts directors of online and we'll try to get middle states someone from middle states to attend that as well. Kim Scalzo: there's also a suggestion Alex that I was going to make as well that we look at the Oscar rubric, which is our course design rubric.
Kim Scalzo: For Sunni and think about how we can you know build in some of these new requirements and more specific requirements into that I think that's a great idea and we would love to do that frank. Kim Scalzo: Can you put your email in the chat as well, thank you so with that, let me go back and. Kim Scalzo: see if there are questions that we did not get to address and i'm not totally sure i'm going to know this because. Kim Scalzo: russ and David you've been doing such a great job responding so I guess, maybe, let me just ask if there are folks who didn't don't feel like you got your question answered and you would like to.
Kim Scalzo: speak up and ask about it verbally why don't we just go ahead and do that or retirement, so it shows up at the bottom for me. Kim Scalzo: And let me just say there are there is some discussion around high FLEX that I don't know, one of the challenges about high FLEX. Kim Scalzo: Is that it's left up to student choice right so students can decide classroom my class meeting up they're going to come i'm going to take this off, so we can see each other if they're going to come to. Kim Scalzo: Be face to face, or if they're going to be online, and so you know because.
Kim Scalzo: We don't necessarily you know know what students are going to do, whether or not that course counts for online or not is in question so. Kim Scalzo: David I don't know if you want to say anything more about that or russ if you have any perspectives on that on how folks are thinking about that. Kim Scalzo: More broadly, that that is a little bit of a question right, because it is not about how the question is designed it's about how the student participates, yes, Christian knows full well, this is a challenge yeah. David Cantaffa: And thanks Kim I did just put into chat i'm. David Cantaffa: an excerpt from the middle states guidance regarding this and you'll see mean the guidance, is that you know to do it, to the best of your ability.
David Cantaffa: And a little bit more there, but I don't know from an operational perspective either frank or Ross what your experiences are. Russ Poulin: The question is about how to count hi FLEX is that it and. David Cantaffa: crack yeah. Russ Poulin: Right yeah and the answer is, it depends, who you're talking to, and so I was trying to find, I do have a blog post about. Russ Poulin: For ipads and Sarah counting that they're they're counting fully distance education courses that were planned to be fully distance education that the that those get to be.
Russ Poulin: that those are counted as distance education so anything that's blended high FLEX hybrid any of these things that that those are not counted as distance education for those purposes, however, you have that. Russ Poulin: As you go from State to State, and I know that you're all in in in New York, and as you and for the accrediting agencies that they're all using different standards and it's really, really annoying. Russ Poulin: For for what they're doing so, so I. Russ Poulin: would say you have to really check, you know with middle states in the states in terms of what what they're doing, but I think the. Russ Poulin: That that federal and Sarah definition is influencing some of the some of the States in terms of what they're doing.
Ed Beck: yeah my question was specifically about the response to coven. Ed Beck: and specifically about the fall semester that we're currently planning and getting ready to register for. Ed Beck: And the discussion on our campus was should we be offering students kind of more I FLEX where they can choose, or should we be offering a. Ed Beck: A be hybrid and does that decision between those two were student could choose to be fully remote or be consuming you know in oneonta city, but still chose choosing to be remote.
Ed Beck: or an ad is that does that make an accreditation decision for us, especially since this the flexibility ends in the spring. David Cantaffa: What you said oneonta is that right. David Cantaffa: So, as an institution oneonta has distance education in a scope of accreditation, so you can the institution can offer really there's no accreditation issue there you can offer whatever programs you want via any format um. David Cantaffa: I think hype hybrid versus high FLEX is is more so, have a design and faculty question because high FLEX in something, especially if you're not well trained to do that can be quite challenging for faculty and students.
David Cantaffa: So I think that would be more of the factor, but from an accreditation standpoint this no issue for crony author or the institutions that have that in the scope of accreditation. Ed Beck: They can watch. Kim Scalzo: And i'll just add if the reason for trying to think about that is to maintain social distancing. Kim Scalzo: You know requirements right, then you know my percent this is Kim scales our perspective on this right. Kim Scalzo: hybrid is predictable and something where you can say we know how many students in each class meeting.
Kim Scalzo: High FLEX is not predictable and so I really want to caution, all of us to be careful to think that high FLEX is a way to help make sure we're meeting social distancing requirements, because. Kim Scalzo: It is not by nature, it is student choice class swing by class meeting. Kim Scalzo: hybrid is where the instructor determines the schedule and you could do more of that a B, so I just want everyone to you know just you know, think about that there's a lot of conflating of hybrid and high FLEX. Kim Scalzo: In this conversation around i'm cold it in social distancing, and that is something we want to make sure that we're really a much more clear about does that make sense. David Cantaffa: Kim, thank you for that I know I know it's P 12, but there are a lot of 12 schools that have sort of forced high FLEX and they don't necessarily call it that. David Cantaffa: With with faculty who are highly trained or supported for that and it's been actually I think a leading cause of of teacher.
David Cantaffa: anxiety stress burnout because it is just if you're not prepared and support it for that model it because of the unpredictability of it, it can be overwhelming and we wouldn't want to see that. David Cantaffa: You know, expand it at scale and higher education and again this is this is me saying, I think that predictability, to the extent possible um is is sort of better to manage all around. Kim Scalzo: yeah and I want to, I want to just point us all to a session later this week that Christian Mahler is going to be doing on tracking and coding students. Kim Scalzo: In co grid, but I think Christian your can also point to more broadly some of the implications, I think that is Thursday um if you want to put that time in the chat. Kim Scalzo: Christian folks can also check the schedule, but this is a really important issue when high flicks was initially introduced in Sunni, we talked about the possibility of. Kim Scalzo: Having a student intent at the beginning of the Semester declared so we knew if they would be all you know students could say i'm going to be all online or i'm going to be all face to face or i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm going to take advantage of this and i'm going to mix right.
Kim Scalzo: What we heard back because that's too much of a burden from a reporting standpoint right and I get that. Kim Scalzo: But I do think that question is coming up again, so I just want to throw that out there Christian Maybe you can talk a little bit about that on Thursday, so I know we're at time and folks have other things right, I think we're done right Alex we only had an hour for this. Kim Scalzo: yeah yeah. Kim Scalzo: Okay, so um I just want to thank our panelists I want to thank you all for attending. Kim Scalzo: I want to suggest if you there was a lot of really great content in the chat you can actually save the chat if you want that dialogue because some of you ask very specific questions and the answers. Kim Scalzo: Are in the chat so you can actually save the chat file will do that as well, but really great session, thank you, everybody and enjoy the rest of the summit anything else.
alexandra pickett: yeah before anyone goes, I just wanted to make sure to let folks know that at 1015 we're going to have our Sunni online degrees at scale student panel, we have nine students. alexandra pickett: That are coming to talk about their experiences Larry do going and amanda wickham are going to moderate, we also have our 12th annual on session coming up at 1245 and the link to sign up to. alexandra pickett: add something to you know to be able to present something in the session I just put that in the chat I hope I will call on people if if you don't sign up so. alexandra pickett: Please sign up and also chuck zubin is coming with Patsy Moscow from UCF at 2pm so I just wanted to make sure everyone here knows about the great day that we have planned today.
alexandra pickett: We also have an open networking session this afternoon, like we did yesterday i'm Michele for Jamie frank and felled are going to be. alexandra pickett: hosting and the general topic is about online students supports, but really it's an open opportunity for socializing and discussion on really on any topic we have 75 people join us yesterday for the ID session, so please come and thanks very much everyone.