Shorten. Your. Strategies. All right i'll just be put it. All. Right good afternoon and thanks everybody for hanging in there where I getting late in the day I, did, get started I'm sure we'll have some folks filtering, ends. Who's. Not using all right the. Topic here today mobile. Music. I'm. Going to go ahead and introduce, the panel and we'll go ahead and get right into it we're. A pretty free forum discussion. Here today we'll try to keep it somewhat. Interesting. For everybody and, there's a lot of topics that have been discussed, already in this area so first. Of all I just introduce, myself my name is Matt Kleinschmidt, I'm. With. International, market research firm if, so since ight we're. Market research consultancy, do a lot of work in the mobile category, specifically. Myself, in the mobile music, industry. So. Pleasure. To be here today. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and say, a little bit about each of the panelists and then of, course. It's. The first time I've met actually all of you so feel free to embellish. And, if I forget anything first. Of all to my immediate left Greg. Brown. Greg's. A senior manager with AT&T mobility. And. Greg. Has been with a AT&T movement, mobility, since 2003. And is responsible for, overseeing. Their, full, music strategy, and product offerings which include product definition partner. Negotiations. And product, product, execution. Greg's. Currently leading the launch efforts, of AT&T, Mobility, music and their. Innovative innovative, mobile music experience. So look. Forward to hearing more about that, challenges. That you're facing. To. The left of greg did I is that good, yeah that's me okay good, job okay thanks, thanks a lot, also. Wendy, Nussbaum vice, president business development from, Universal, Music Group EE labs division. When. These duties includes cutting strategic, partnerships, and content licensing, deals vetting, new technologies, and seeking new avenues to bring to. Market and distribute the, music of um geez artists. Wendy. Anything else you'd like to add on that o, sons. It up okay, sounds, good sounds good yeah, okay. Very good Sean, hopwood is us senior director of coating technologies. Coating. Technologies, provides audio compression for mobile digital broadcasting. And the internet sean. Is a, senior director and brings. More than 15 years of experience to, the rich media technology. Space his. Current role Sean. Overseas marketing, business development, and public relations efforts, within North America. Okay. Very. Good. And, on. A far left we have. Darren. Suey. Darren's. CEO, of em spot which, is a mobile content, aggregator. Darren. Founded the company in 2004, with the goal of transforming. Mobile phones into the medium for rich multimedia entertainment, that masses, that the masses will embrace and, he. Led the at let em spots charge to be the first mobile entertainment services, America. To stream a full format, radio service, including, news sports finance talk and music, channels as well. Darren. Is that good, someone okay sounds good, all. Right just to go ahead and start start things off here I, know, hopefully, everyone, has some questions for the panel will get to that just a little bit I just wanted to go ahead and kind of set the context, of our organizations, tracks the category, for quite a while we've. Seen over the last few years the. Embrace. Of ringtones, and the, sort. Of leveling off of some of that adoption both. Overseas, as well as here in the US, following. That there was as we all know a lot of excitement. Around over-the-air. Downloading. And a. Lot of folks really thought that that would be the really the next big thing, in. The u.s. anyway, we've seen some. Experimentation, with that roughly, about 5%, only. Of. Us. Mobile phone owners have experimented, with that ever, about. 3% do it on a regular, basis, Pat is. In. Addition we're starting to see a lot of streaming radio and streaming music services, and really a lot of the things that we're hearing about recently. Are around. The idea of discovery. Using the mobile device as as a discovery. Mechanism, and. Hopefully being. An entree, or a trigger to a physical purchase or a more full, experience. Audio, download. One. Of the things that I think is most interesting at some of the research we've seen is satisfaction, levels with over the years are. Far, behind, what, we see on the internet world as well as satellite, radio so there does appear to be some issues with user interface, and could. Be contributing to more. A rampant, adoption, of that behavior. So, a lot. Of things going on I think. There's a lot of cool technologies, out there that i'm sure the panelists could talk about as well what.
I'd Like to do just to begin with is just to have everyone on, the, panel if you could just describe. In, your own, opinion, with everything that's going on out there what. Do you personally think is the most exciting. Opportunity. Or, exciting. Thing that's coming up for you personally in your business in. The mobile music world. Give. You five seconds to think about that who'd. Like to begin. Darren. Sure. Let's. See well I I think, at a very high level we. Are very, very. Excited. About, the. Prospect, of the mobile home the. Fall, a portable. Media player or music player. For. Consumers, and you, know i think you. Know Apple made the announcement of. Selling. The 100. Million iPods. Since. The ipod launched which is about five years ago I guess but, you know if you look at the stats for just sony Sony, Ericsson, and Nokia. Alone last year they, combined. Soul over 125. Million music, phones, just for a single year so, in. On. Top of that the carriers, are at least in the US are heavily. Subsidizing, the cost of these handsets, so, we're really looking at the mobile phone as a great platform in terms of music. And then a question of course is really, what is the most successful, way of. Or. Building, a business or on, that particular platform whether, it's, subscription-based. Music. Whether it's the OTA downloads, whether streaming, radio. But. You know what's exciting, to us is figuring. That out so. Literally, believe in the mobile platform ok. So the platform is all ok. Greg. How about you yeah. I mean i have to agree I mean you know Darren during a lot of Darren's comments are very, relevant I mean I think that, there's. No more natural. Fit of content. In my opinion than music on a phone and I think that. You know we're at the very early, stages of, it i mean i think a lot of the issues, that you're seeing you know, it's. You know it's kind of growing pains situation. I mean the technology, is just not right you, know the networks are just getting in there i mean least from a singular perspective, the. Technology. Is, there's. A lot of great ideas out there trying. To organize on phone technology, to make it all work on the phone it's just starting to get there and i think the, opportunity, is just, is just amazing i mean i just look at myself with my phone i mean i've pretty much converted. Entirely, to using my, phone as my mobile music player and. It's. It's a fantastic, experience so, just personally, i'm very, excited about you. Know when we start getting more with. The right technology on, it to, enable music on the phone I think you'll see you. Know very rapid shift to two, more, people it won't be an anomaly to use music on your phone it'll be the, norm okay, so. You're. You're here from AT&T mobility. And the single most exciting, thing that you see in the future is not the iphone. Yeah. I, think ifonly good ok, no bigger than that gets bigger than that sounds. Good Wendy. How about you maybe. From a Content perspective, we. Know we're very excited about the prospects, of all different, you, know areas of mobile. Services. I mean ring backs, haven't.
Taken Off as quickly as they have in you know places like Korea but it's still growing for us as a segment, we've. Got you know over-the-air downloads, which has just started to continues. To grow I know, you mentioned the compatibility. Issues and you know consumer satisfaction but. You, know as more, and more handsets, get out there with the functionality, ability, to handle it and, more consumers get used to it i think that's still a huge growth area for us and. With, the iphone launching, you know later this summer, i think there's going to be additional. Focus on from. Consumers, and awareness, on what. You can do on mobile phones and, whether they buy an iphone or not an iphone it'll, still bring attention, to, you. Know music, on cell. Phones as a general, and will give enough uplift, to the the industry as a whole i think so there's. A lot that's still going to think, this year and. As you don't reg mention i think just kind of growing pains you. Know to get into this market and, and having consumers, be, aware. Of what their phones are capable of doing and, you know you know how to discover, the music on the phones there's, new services, and engines. That are going to be launching that help to to, make that easier in the future, so. I think you know for us we're very excited about the, segment, and. So. From a content, type from. A music. Label perspective, and licensing, and conservative, an area that is you. Perceive to be sort, of a good opportunity, for you is is the focus more on broadening. Of awareness and of an experience, with ring backs as opposed to, OTA. Or. No. For us we're looking at every single, possibility. Where. You, know you. Know any type of exploitation, of music so whether it's through ring backs video. Tones you. Know radio, on, moons. Videos. You. Know for us I mean our physical, sales are already down twenty percent this year so, you. Know we're we're looking at all potential. You. Know products, and services related, to music and there isn't one specific, area that we're focused on more than the other, you. Know it's pretty much we have to focus on everything at, this point. Thank. You hmm Shawn could. I get to go last and, um. I. Think. Applications. Applications applications, I. Think thing, that we can all use more of on the mobile phone and. It's not that there is one application that. Sort of is, a killer application i, think is so it's a range of applications, that sort. Of make. The whole process of. Acquiring, music. So you know seamless, and. I think that, will, that combined, with handsets, that make it a nabol i think, of the exciting things so, looking. For the applications, that need to come up to the mobile now. Is it any particular, one application, or is a more the synchronous the, unity of a, host, or suite of applications being, able to put together well i think it's the transparency. The, transparency, of the applications, in the sense that i. Don't, have to go and acquire the out, example, it's on my phone yeah I. Don't have to know. Whether or not the. Song is being streamed, or, it's being downloaded or. It's being side. Loaded is just there what I want to listen to it, so. I really think the applic you know the applications, are starting to show themselves. Show. Some interesting, approaches, to, as you mentioned discovery and. I think that going. Forward are they going to see some interesting. Transitional. Things between discovery. Purchase, you. Know. Transferring. And sharing to your friends I think that will become interesting. Man. You mentioned just, briefly the iphone and building awareness, you. Know one of the questions I have for everyone, would just be in terms of the, iPhone itself I mean clearly this is not an over-the-air device, it's. It's more of an ipod that has you. Know mobile phone functionality. Is. The. Key benefit, of the iphone in the mobile music world going to be just building, awareness of the linkage between phone, and music, or is, there is that do you think that it's going to have broader, effects, on you. Know experimentation. With the functionality. Will. It actually lead to further embrace of mobile music and OTA, downloading, for example on other handsets, well. So. I think it's. A little bit of combination, of both i mean i think the iphone is without. A doubt going. To spur innovation and. You're already seeing innovation, from from, the from the from the handset manufacturers, and basically you, know really taking, music very seriously, on the device and creating.
Issue That folks are adopting. Over, the year downloads, and permanent, sort of ownership of music as they would traditionally think on a mobile device because, of being compatibility, with their broader digital collection, yeah how do you how do you see that this, is this is my speculation. I mean the way to get that to get to that answer is you got to do surveys, right and we haven't done surveys, but but you, know I would speculate that will in, terms, of physical. Purchase, of songs. Oh teeing so forth I mean you, know it's no secret that I think job Steve, Jobs said that ninety-seven. Percent of the music on an ipod is actually not purchased from itunes store, which, means that it's the arm m3, from somewhere else. So. I mean there's, no reason, to believe. That you. Know in, a, mature ecosystem like. Itunes, where there aren't a lot of full, track purchases, that somehow, on the mobile things, are going to be drastically, different there, might be a little bit different but wouldn't. Be drastically, different so, at. Least for me I wasn't, too surprised, in terms of you. Know OTA, numbers, sales and so forth on. The usage side a white-white. You know why, this audio, do better than some of the videos I actually, think that you know watching, your phone is still a learned behavior to, be honest whereas. Using. As a phone to listen, that's native and so. And. You can walk around and you can multitask, to, audio whereas with watching. Video you got to stop and do it I think maybe that's some of the reasons why we're seeing the kind of stats that we do on our side. Okay. And. Wendy from a. From. A music industry, or, a label. Perspective. Is, there any preferences, with regard to OTA, versus, personalized, radio passive. Radio. Your. Business strategy. Will. Take off is there is there a difference or at this point is it you're. Hoping anything well well. I mean there, is a big difference for us because the, more interactive, it is the higher the, economics, are for us from a kind of royalty perspective. So. You, know there's, various, you, know for a permanent. Track, that you buy we, obviously get a higher share. Of, the retail price if, its interactive, radio it's you know somewhere, up there and if it's kind of just statutory, radio there's, reach that are you, know the. Statics. Teams you know in the copyright, licensing boards so. For. Us. The. More the user is able to do various things with, the music and take it portable and to, you know be. Interactive, with it then that's a, great, consumer experience, but, from you know kind of content owner perspective, we, have to be you know compensated. For that type, of usage. So. You, know obviously we. Get paid mor on OTA downloads, we take, off and you know enable. That market, but you, know we have to kind of see the balance people, want to use music in a variety of different ways you know there's, passive, experiences, as you know Darren was mentioning if you're in your car if, you're you know just standing in line with your cell phone you know waiting for you know and.
Went The bank or you. Know somewhere else or at a baseball game you, know so there's a lot of different ways that people consume, music and, we. Want to enable that and. So for us really the focus is how, do you enable that behavior. But also make, sure that we're able. To support you know the, kind of the industry that you know we have with our artists, and all the writers and you, know the company, itself to. Support, you, know. One. Of the things that I think is fascinating about just all the different music, categories, out there you, know we have obviously physical, mobile. Web. Based satellite. Terrestrial. It's. Interesting a, lot. Of the conference's, that I mad there's, there's really a sort of a siloed approach to, kind of how people think about all these different channels. Of acquisition, and. One. Of the things I think is really interesting is when you start looking at from a consumer perspective and. And the, interactions, between channel, so, folks who are listening on on a mobile device and then maybe purchasing, offline, and or. Mobile. Is pushing people to more. Of a web-based experience, or web-based purchase. Just. Pose, this question to the panel is that something, that is. In. In, the minds, of the folks back, at the home offices, are. You. Doing. Things to kind of enable cross-channel, acquisition. Is it, seen as an opportunity, or is it something that you know is really outside, of the territory, when you think of this, is mobile music let's make mobile music happen, within. The silo I. Mean. So, that's. Re say I mean from our perspective I mean we absolutely, look at it a holistic, that. You, know we, know. That the, consumer, is acquiring, music, in a variety of different forms, and actually, you, know as we as we look, at the what. We've launched, and what we continue, to support is definitely. A to screen approach if you will like a computer, you. Know from from the pc and from the mobile device and you. Know we look to each of those to complement, to complement, each other because again. We know where most. People manage their music, today on the pc and so we, can't ignore it in, order to be able to have a successful. Music. Strategy. So. I actually think that. The. Lack of transparency, and, seamless, operation is. Part, of what's holding, mobile, hostage. And and, almost. Making it siloed, in some. Aspects. For. Example I have probably, to two, or three ipods I've two. Or three pcs, most of us probably have, work pc tease, that. Music on my phone. You. Know and, there's. No way to sort, of access. All of those things collectively. Right so if I've itunes. You, know content. And I can listen to on my phone well, hopefully soon, right. But. There has to be I think it. Has to go away that you have this notion that I'm going to buy a song on my mobile phone and, then try to figure out how to get on my pc, or bite, on my pc, but i figure out i get all my it. Needs to be a seamless operation so. That even, if i'm discovering music, moving. Music around sharing music that it's not, siloed. Or stuck, you. Know in the place like which then, i originally acquired. It there. That's a big problem that's a really big problem i think, once that is solved, is going to help a lot of the. Not, only just the mobile, music space, but the. Content. Space in general to. Really grow I. Mean. From, our perspective we're, seeing you. Know online, and mobile starting. To converge quite a bit I mean I already you have partners, like Napster, which were traditionally, online.
You, Know subscription, services, doing things partnering, with you. Know carriers, to bring, their, their, services the cell phone we've, done it already with physical, where you have you. Know your targets, and your your, best buys of the world you. Know converging, with online, companies like Apple and you, know all the other services that are out there as well. You. Know and as devices. Get smarter, and get better Wi-Fi, and, they you, know enables, things you. Know the, lines between, PC. Traditional. PC and Mobile start. To get really blurry, so. For us we definitely, look at you, know, what, does the world look like when, you can get your music wherever, you want whenever you want there's. That celestial, jukebox, in the sky type of access, you, know how did the rights work, and. You know music. And you know how to ultimately. Enable. All that to happen so, you, know it's it's a big thing that we focus on all the time, in our mystery okay. Unfortunately. You have to rely, a lot of the technology, partners and wanted, to help enable that to happen. Darren. Any thoughts on that well. So. We are a service, provider and, we started out in the mobile space but. Are. Our customers which are traditionally, that, we. Are seeing we're getting pressure to expand. Our platform, to go. Beyond just mobile, and I. Mean, if you look at you know some of our competitors it's. Up. In these, are some of the you know the very, well and trench folks like real that has kind, of a. Soup. To nuts everything, from pc, to broadband. To to mobile so to be competitive, we're, definitely getting pressure to be able to expand our offering to be. On the mobile platform. Do. You look to. Other. Within, two other silos, or other platforms, for. Content. Trends. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean. The. OTA, for, example, was is, a big one in terms of you, know early on we're, contemplating. Whether, we want to play in the full track. You. Know in the full. Track world we, sort of looked at what's going on online and made our decision. That. Way i, think the only difference, here though our caveat, is that i. Think. The carriers, the mobile carriers have done a good job of educating consumers, to, pay for everything whereas. The online model, is everything, free because, i'm on the handsets, I you know I have to pay for my voicemail, my text messages, and which. Is good in terms of having. A viable business ecosystem. And, so for so that's the only thing that I think it's different that I just. Because something doesn't work for. Example a subscription, the subscription-based, service that. Doesn't work on the online side. Discounted, when looking at on a mobile site I. Mean. People are paying you, know 250, for a ringtone, that's 20 seconds, and they're not willing to pay 99 cents, for a full song on PC, so, there is the kind. Of premium. You. Know, that. You get for, access on a mobile phone that, consumers. Are still willing to pay for what. Do you think is that as a deferred, billing, element, is it an impulse type, purchase, or what do you think is really you know its impulse, it's also personalization.
You. Know having. A certain song play. On your phone when, you're out with your friends, says, something about who you are and. People are willing to pay for that as a, part of their you know overall persona. And. So I think they're willing to pay for that it's also very easy and, it's impulsive and, you may forget that you bought ten ringtones. Last month and two you see your bill but I mean. A lot of people you, see the problems with text messaging I mean you know pitching. In there, have been problems because, they're running up their parents bills but now there are plans, that accommodate, that so. People. Are, willing to pay on the on the cell phones and you. Know there's that, I don't. Know what it is the mentality is just slightly different, from what you do see on the on the pc side where everything has always been it should be for free you, know music should be for free everything's, ad-supported. It's. A slightly different Minds than anything you, know you know I'm glad you brought up text messaging because I think that one of the things that. You. Know you, start, off the panel by talking about how OTA has it you know it's really hadn't, taken off and so forth and I'll bet you if you. Were at panels. Seven. Eight years ago they were probably say the same thing about text messaging and now text messaging, is is. You, know the penetration, rate is unbelievable. I mean the, text, messaging is such. A huge, business at, the, carrier's right now and. It's really hit kind, of another level. Of growth and I think that we, things, like OTA I mean we're so nascent, in this space that. To, be you know kind of saying that you, know that it's, you, know that. There's no market there or so forth is really a little, bit early. Make those kind of comments a thing I. Think. I think most people aware the kddi. Story. Or the fact I mean kddi. In Japan launched. Their. Own air music service things 2004, and I. Mean a versa. There's something it's two. Dollars and fifty cents for 325. Per. Song and they've sold 50. Million songs and, like a short. Period of time it's phenomenal, they're they're, making money you're printing money Japan. Interesting. Thing on the two dollars of you sent rain. Tellin I think the perception on top of the fact it's impulsive. It's also I think, most people think that they're, going to only buy one or two right, you, know only we really need one or two ringtones, and I'm done but, obviously, is a never-ending. Perpetual. Thing hopefully, if you're you're. You, know that verse but you, know with, the with. New discovery, services hopefully, that will go but it's, one of those things where you will continuously, by songs, over, and over so you're really, responsive. To the to, the charge, of up. Each song because you know if, I start this this behavior I can, be into, it you, know five months from now having spent quite. A bit of money if, it's you, know so. Quick. Quick, just. Switch gears for just a second is talk a little bit about the consumers, using these services. Some. Of the research that we've done we've seen that this is something that I particularly. On ringtones and over the year downloads is attracting, youth traditionally. A segment. That has not been really, into the fee-based digital, music market, so a good, thing from that standpoint to. Be able to actually monetize, that consumer. Group, but. But are there other trends, out there I mean are we are we who. Are you guys seeing as being the core target, market for this for these sort of, mobile. Music offerings and, and will, it change as we move move, for in the next couple of years. Great. Oh. Yeah. I was just kind of thinking about it I was thinking about that the question will you. Obviously. Knew I mean we haven't launched an OTA service, yet I mean there's definitely something, that we're looking at but, but. From you know kind of things that we have seen the. Target, the. Target customers. Um I think.
It's, I think and, what, we've heard generalist, be in the industry it's really very similar to the ringtone market actually a. Very similar demographic. Similar. Buying patterns in, the context, of similar genre is, a content, and so forth I. Think. You. Know a lot of that is a self-fulfilling, prophecy, because that's what's kind of promoted, and so forth but, you. Know I think there's certainly an opportunity. Around. Especially, since, music. You. Know there's. So many different folks, that enjoy, music as opposed to ringtones, there's, an opportunity to go broader and deeper you. Know with with, with, it with a notes with the music with a full music offering. Are. You thinking about it from a marketing, standpoint of completely, kind of a separate. Separate. Consumer, group from your core you, know mobile. Subscriber, or is it. We're. Already looking for particular segments, within your subscriber. Base to really sort of target market, these sort of services, to yeah. I mean you know we we have we have certain, you. Know we we, have like segment marketing, you. Know groups and those, the, way. We've kind of organizes. That you know those those are the groups that are most likely to buy this. Kind of data products, and so forth and I think that that's you. Know which is consistent with you know you, it really is you know youth. You. Know Hispanic. Is another one. That's it's. Very attractive, as well so you. Know I think it's in that those you. Know those general, areas. And. We see if, you you compare the, market online. Just, like say on itunes and what gets purchased, in their kind, of top 10 on, a regular basis, compared, to you, know top 10 master, tones. It. Looks. Very different you, have your kind of you, know. Rock. Kind, of alt rock of. Genres. That usually. Rise to the top and you're Jack Johnson, and you, know things like that their rights to the top on iTunes whereas. On mobile. What we've seen is it's, very hip hop based hip, hop and urban, latin.
As Craig mentioned is, very well in that you know in mobile, as well so it is a slightly different, demographic. That is purchasing. That. We see for, mobile products versus. You. Know kind of an the traditional online iTunes, world and. That's. Just another. Way for us to you, know focus, on that type of consumer, so. We've been you know actively, trying to work with everybody to you know focus on those types of demographics, because, we can cater to them specifically. For you know mobile, specific products. Whereas. They may not be purchasing, online. Darren. Are you seeing any any any, of. Your customers, providing any information, to you about sort of who, they're targeting, and their their core, market, and are they asking for types. Of content, as a result or, are. You seeing any trends in that area yeah, we. Are. Most popular genre, for, on. The radio side is urban, hip hop, content. I think, it's that. Compared. To the next closest, John R which i think is like you know the top 40 stuff is like four to one so urban. Is overwhelmingly. The, most popular, content and, that, that actually has been consistent. From day one, which is two. And a half ago, when we first launched, their service as a matter of fact. Because. They are, very early, on the. Phones are still fairly expensive that supported, streaming, radio back. Then it was like a sanyo. 5600. That you had to buy for. You. Know $275. Subsidized, two years plans so it's pretty expensive we. Actually thought that, the, demo, for four, for the consumers, the demo of the consumers, for that kind of a phone would be sort of the affluent. Mobile, professionals, and we. Actually order, our playlist. Or genres, we actually put like the decades, or the easy listening stuff at the very top thinking that was going to be it and then sort, of surface down all that the younger, job, and you, know day one hip. Hop just. You. Know just went, to the sky just, skyrocketed. And. Speaking. About sort, of the Latin content a little bit six. Months into the service, just out, of you know I we. Were just experimenting, we actually put up a very from, Channel. And now that thing is like the, number three and flip, flip, flops between number two and number three genre, next, to hip hop so you. Know and so we don't know exactly the, demo but you know you, can take an arbitron report for radio look at the kind of content that's popular, and then sort of calculate.
Backwards With, your audience is, probably. Yes and you, know we're guessing it's the younger guys or younger folks. We've. Seen actually in a lot of the research we've done though we're not, on the mobile side but and just based. Internet delivered music we've seen just in the last year a lot of movement. In sort of the country genre which. Seems to be kind of catching up to. Many. Of the more early adopters. Previous. Years and I'm just wondering is that. An, anyone sites in terms of on the mobile category, that country, could be you know something that's going to hit next year no. We. Know we have a pen we have a country channel and that does not perform it's, never personal no. Don't. Know why but no, we do sell a lot of country music though so I. That, is an area that we hope will continue, to grow but. It hasn't been a huge seller for us but it's it's it's still coming, that we focus on to try to get out is that on the OTA side or both, OTA, and master tub okay okay i think traditionally you know a lot of people just been focused on that hip hop cells so well and it's, kind of you know a self-fulfilling, prophecy, if you're gonna you, want to sell you're going to put on the top of the deck but things are gonna sell it at. The top of the deck automatic, excels and it's hard to kind of you, know navigate, down to find, the country or to kind, of find the other genres, you. Know so it's a little more difficult to kind of get. Up there in the top you know ten lists, and things like that but i. Think there's. A whole segment of the u.s. that is very you know country. Specific. You know they love their country music, so. Okay. Let's let's talk just briefly i want to wanted to touch on branding. For a little bit the, mobile space we have. Kind. Of a complex branding. Sweet. And relationship, we. Have obviously the service provider the carrier we have the handset. We. Also have some aggregators. We have some some, other online, service, providers, who are, providing. Content, for some of the mobile mobile, carriers. Moving. Forward in the future what you know we, said we saw in the mobile space just over the last year year and a half two years particularly, with the with the razor. Is really, sort of changing, a little bit of the dynamic, in the decision process about, service plans where. Hand sent really started, to filter into that decision process, and, really. Became a key driver of what, particular, carrier service, service provider you may be going for or, going with moving. For the next couple years, who's. Going to own that relationship, is it ultimately going to be the carrier who has the, billing. Relationship, or. Will. Mobile. Music be driven by a device for exam and obviously. Excluding, iphone, just for the sake of argument are there other devices out there that could be sort of that that, really. A key driver or lure. Bring people into the mobile music world. Greg. Do you see anything in that like that I'm not on your side, yeah. It's um interesting question, i mean so. Um. Maybe. You guys are going through some branding yeah, i mean generally. Speaking I guess I when you know I think that. People. Are at, the point or going. To be you know in the in, the real near future about on choosing, a carrier, based, on based. On music, I mean, I think that you know they're still choosing a carrier, a lot, of times based on, you. Know again excludes to exclude the iphone in this category but i think they're choosing a carrier based on network. Services, and network coverage, and so forth and those kinds of things so.
I I don't I don't see that I don't see that changing. Um. You. Know in the mirror in the mirror term okay. Anyone. Else care to comment on that I. Mean. Current, coming from Rome though I think you, know, the. Device manufacturers. In them Greg is in a better position to answer this but they. Want to sell to all carriers so. Based. On that fact there's no exclusivity, and therefore, you. Know I can get the same razor on you. Know singular, now it is available on sprint well. Picking. Handsets. I I don't see people using handsets. As so you know as a way of picking a carrier i think the carrier the network coverage comes first before the handset yeah. I mean everything I mean content, saying I mean there, are exclusive, sometimes, for period of time on handsets, there's exclusives, on content. And so forth but again, I don't think that we're at the point where people are mean. If that's kind of what you're getting and i don't think people with the point of making those decisions based, on based, on these things fast too but to like go with the carriers, or. To go it go with the phone service so, in terms of carrier, like sprint watching, a device. Like the upstage which, is clearly a music, play and, really a strong music positioning, do, you feel that that is you know people that's not necessary going to lure people to sprint because of the device and, it's. More serving their existing customer base and. Absolutely, you know running to reduce churn. Yeah. That's, I mean I do feel that way okay yeah. Just. Before we go ahead and open up the questions 2, questions I, just thought I'd pose, one final, question. To the panel just. In terms of you. Know there's, there's so many opportunities in, this space I just think that with, that it's, almost like there's so many opportunities that. You don't really know what to focus on and I would there's, so many different interoperability. Issues and, those sorts of things as well I. Guess I would like you know each each one of you to sort of say what you had to choose one or, item that you think is the biggest barrier, to broader. Consumer. Adoption in, mobile. Music and. There, may be more than one but if there is one that you could sort of encapsulate, your feelings about your own organization or, you personally. What. Would that be. Sean. Would you care to start sure. Actually. For a long time the thing that, really. Was. About as a problem, for us was, it. Was they had a chicken and egg problem that, they're. Worried enough phones that supported, music. And. The phones that did support music, were higher, and phones, and more expensive phones that. You know obviously most, people didn't, have couldn't, afford support. So. Sort, of the barrier that, well, we've been working pretty hard to to. Go, over or across it is, being. Able to bring, to. Bring mobile music down, into a phone that's for example. Bullying. In India, for forty five dollars. And. That really that. That doesn't exist today you, really cannot go to some of the well. For example most, of the phone companies, that don't have a ubiquitous, coverage of, phones. That support music, so, if you want to buy a particular phone you. Then have to ask the question well does it support music. Does it support this, type of music service, and typically. You know. Really doesn't, so you have to pick from either what they old for you. Go. Somewhere else so. I think, trying. To get ubiquitous. Coverage amongst, the. Phones that are offered by the carriers. Is. Going to be important, and for, example kddi. In japan just to go back to that as example they, very very, quickly. Made. So that every, phone that they sold had. Their. Music service available on its you couldn't even buy. One I didn't have it on it so you know instantly, that that. Person, that customers, customer. And they, were able to upsell to that to that person, and that doesn't exist here in the states and. As. I mentioned in, certainly. You know obviously in India and Latin American countries it's not exist therefore, for. A while unless we get the, cost of the music. Phones down okay, so, enable Hardware would, be absolutely well, from, our point of view we sell we sell, hardware, I mean well we don't sell harder we sell to companies, that make, hardware okay, Darin. The. Big spirit. That we see is actually just awareness, I. Don't know how many times I I hear, you know I'm show something to my friend on her phone and they're like oh I didn't know if phone can do this or I showed, on his and I show them that it's actually capable not only on my fone bone on his phone to like, oh wow I didn't know that it's.
It's, A you know I think we were spending a lot of time cramming. Features, and. Functionalities. And you know we're doing a good job in these, phones I mean you. Know it's so different now versus even a year ago and and, i think i need to get caught up and understand. That oh yeah i can do is i can do that and awareness. Not only in, terms of the features they're also just you, know content, to it's so hard to find content, because the screen is so small you've got. 50. Brands. Alone just for music, that, you know including mtv. And vh1. And, just. You know consumers, are overwhelmed, so I think awareness. Is the biggest hurt on my opinion right now. Sounds. Good Wendy. One. Of the big barriers are noise but. That. I see is is, similar. To along the lines of what Darren, was saying is search. It. Takes a lot, of clicks to get down, to what. You're looking for, and. Then you have you. Know there's the, Masters, one application which is separate from the full track store which is separate from the ring back store. So. From our point of view we'd rather have one, music store where if you like mm you, want to get an M&M track whether it's a back. The master tone or the ring back you can just go there to one page and, scroll. Down and say okay I want to buy it may be all 33, tracks or all three products, and maybe you get discount for it but. The search is still limiting, and. So I think consumers, get frustrated, and they can't find what they want very easily or. You, know the network goes down or, something happens, and you know you just can't buy what you're looking for in a very simple and easy way, and. So for us we'd love to see you know, better applications, by functionality. Because. It is a very small window and you, know it's it. Gets frustrating when, you have to have you, know so many clicks actually get to what you ultimately want. Yeah. I mean these, guys took a pretty much everything, I mean I you, know the everything. I would say it's around definitely. About, making it a more seamless experience on, the device and a. Better organization of, content, better more zation merchandising. And. Then. Content, costs no kidding. No. But. So. But. Yeah so. But, that seriously, the the big thing is I think organization. On the phone I think that it's just you, know it. Takes a long. Is a relatively, long process, to get things designed phone, a lot of lead time to make things happen and, to, to you know to create you might have an idea now it's going to take a while to, get it they're baked on to the phone and. So that, you. Know figuring out a way to kind of you know again we're at the early stages of this you know a lot of us are just kind of launching, this and hopefully, over time through, search mechanisms. And and and. Better. You know merchandising. Tools will, be able to offer more, consolidated, approach to things whether, it's actual. Individual, pieces of content or, applications. You. Know that that, that, makes, sense to give, people a complete music experience, I. Think, it's interesting.
Very. Functional, type of things. Here that are barriers we have you know the hardware. Being unable to actually. Facilitate this, sort of content, we have awareness, and, that, we have sort of the user interface the, merchandising, component, I think it's, interesting because everyone. In this category and, in in digital music in general is it's, so easy for all of us to get ahead of ourselves and, start bringing on these extra features and, advanced applications. And that sort of thing and we, kind of forget about sort, of the nuts and bolts have. To be there in order for new markets to really take off so, I think it's a very very telling. Inside. There, should. We open it up really quick we, have time for a couple questions. What. We're done okay sounds. Good. Feel. Free to talk. To the panelists individually, then thank, you makes. Everybody.