Is Defi bigger than bitcoin? Tim Draper keeps his $250,000 BTC prediction
All right welcome, back. To the daily change, guys we're here and we're with tim, draper. He is the, founder. Of drapery, associates, dfj. And drep university, we're talking all about bitcoin, d5. And the decentralized. Technology, we'll see you guys right after. This. All right guys we're back. We're here with tim, tim, welcome. To the daily exchange. Great, thanks for having me tobias, and really excited, to be back on the show. Because our first one was such a big hit. We need a million, views. So you guys, that's the goal we've got a bar we got to hit a million views so. Whatever we say here spread the word, tim um i think you've you might have first got me confused, with our cameraman. Tobias, my name's fred but i should i should introduce myself. Just. Sorry. Oh it said tobias. Hey tobias. Good to have you here. We go to blast with us, good to be here. All right let's get into it, um. Tim. There's a defy, explosion. Right now some people are calling it the fourth industrial. Revolution. Um what do you make of this defy. Um space and and what's happening here. So i'm trying to figure out what the first three were but, um, i guess the first one was the industrial, revolution. And then there was probably, the. The internet. And then there was, probably. Bitcoin. And, now. The fourth one's probably, d5 that makes perfect sense. Um. Internet. Opened the world and all of a sudden we were all global, we went from being this tribal, world. Where borders, were protecting, us from each other to this global war where we realized. That we could help each other. And, uh and the internet opened that all up, well bitcoin. Made it so that now we had a currency, that we could all use, globally. That was frictionless. And cross-border. And open and, transparent. And global, and all that. Well. D5. Is, really just step. Two i mean first there's bitcoin, and you can use it as a store of value, you can use it to send money. Cross-border. Micro, payments that kind of thing but then. People people. Are saying well i've got all this bitcoin. What do i do with it how do i put it to work. The way i put my. Dollars, or my yen, or my. Pesos, to work how do i put that to work, and that's the beginning, of d5, where they're saying well look you can loan it to people. And. And people can borrow it and put it to work and pay you interest, on it, just the way you do with other. Uh currencies, so mostly. D5, so far is. Is, borrowing. And, loaning, but it also, includes. All sorts of new. New, forms, of um. Of. Derivatives. And all kinds of interesting, things, so what dfi's, really done, is. Taken this currency. And opened, it up to all the things that we use, fiat currencies, to, and so now we have this great, d5. Technology. That is moving, us forward, and then i think, the then it's refi. It's, the retail. World is going to open up and that's when. Um. You know right now it's only one in 14, bitcoin, wallets, that's owned by a woman. But as soon as. Retail, which is 80. Of all, retail, shopping, is done by women. As soon as that opens, up, this is going to be really, extraordinary. So, it starts, with bitcoin. It moves to d5. And then it goes to refi. Where the retailer. Is accepting, bitcoin. Because they save, the two and a half to four percent that they normally, pay to the banks. And the, and that can be passed on to the customer, and so the customer. Realizes, that this is a better way. You know using, this is a better way of shopping, than using a credit card. So, i think that we are, this is stage, two stage, three is going to open. Open up the flood gates, and that's, really stage, three is where. I. Made the prediction, of 250. 000. Per bitcoin. And then once once we're at stage three, we are wide, open. Though, the world, is now. Going to use this currency. And it's going to be using it globally. And we're all going to be so much better off. And. Um, this. This. Retro. To, tribalism. Where like these guards some governments, the. Bad ones are going, oh we need a. We need to put borders, up or trade war or whatever. They're going to lose out to the ones who are going hey. We're open we're free we're transparent. Bring it in. We'll use bitcoin, bitcoin, will be a national, currency. And uh here we go.
Awesome. Um i also just want to compliment you firstly, uh as well, tim today, on your bitcoin, tie thank you for bringing that to the show that's just awesome, of course. And. Better than. That. Worth the bill. Yeah. So um, i want to talk about so there's a recent stat, right now, currently around two billion dollars. Of, wrapped, bitcoin, is on ethereum, there's. Currently about 40 million dollars. Of bitcoin. In, side chains such as liquid. And the lightning, network. And, there's also another, trend going on right now. Where, we've seen. Um. For, the last, uh so for the for the longest historical, time in bitcoin's history. Um its price being above ten thousand dollars. Um, and, also, the amount of bitcoin, being held on exchanges. Has decreased. And. Now sits. On uh personal wallets, as opposed to exchange. Addresses. Now there's some pretty strong, undercurrents. Um. For, for d5. And and and it's in its base, back into bitcoin my question. To you is do you think, big d5. Will be bigger, than bitcoin. Yes, i i think so, um i think um. The reason, that, people are moving off, moving their bitcoin off exchanges. And into wallets. Uh they're two one is that, sure you can you can lend and, do interesting, things with but. I think the other one. Had to do with covet. Because. They, um. They shut down, all of the businesses. And then they realized, that they had to keep people alive so they printed, 13, trillion. Dollars. And, uh and that's in dollars, that's in fiat dollars. Well that makes the dollar worth about 20 percent, less. Naturally, because they're. Only 86, trillion dollars out there well now they're 100 trillion. Um. And that makes bitcoin, worth more relative, to the dollar, and it makes it. A a, better store of value, and so people are instead of leaving, it in the exchanges. And moving in and out of it like. Trading, bitcoin. They are. Using, it as a currency, they're using it as a store of value. And then they're, they're using that store of value and they're loaning, it out. In the form of um. Either wallets, or. Taizos. Or whatever, where where they do baking, and staking. And there's a um. And there's a coupon. On the money, and so yeah there i believe that that is. What's happened. And, the other thing is i think people, stuck in place. Are looking around for something new to do. And they're getting themselves, a bitcoin, wallet. Hey might as well try this thing. And uh and so that's kind of. Opening, things up and also. Some people, are, custodying. For the first time where they're actually. Storing. In. Coinbase, or other place. Um, their, their coins. So that, they can, sleep, easier at night rather than holding them in, some safe, or or. Holding them in, in their, ledgers. Um. So all that is changing, and uh. And, it was interesting, the way you asked that question you led me toward the answer. Uh, and i like that because it kind of made me think about how. What is happening, with people and why are they. Taking their money out of the. The, exchanges. Where they're making all these quick trades about. Um, you know bitcoins, at this price i want to go to this price. Instead, they're saying, i want to think i'm thinking in terms of being an investor. And i'm taking that money and i'm investing. It so i'm getting a coupon, on that investment. Long term here's what i want. I want to be able to take. Bitcoin, as a, venture, investor. Inves. I mean i want to i want. My investors, to give me bitcoin. For me to, invest, in a bunch of startups. And i invested, in bitcoin and i want those startups, to pay their employees, and suppliers, in bitcoin. And i want the whole, chain. There, on the blockchain. On smart contracts. So that when. A sale is made, the smart contract, sends the money to the right place when. A company, is sold. Uh all my investors, get their money straight into their wallets. Um. I'm i'm okay, with like the, government, taking a tax, at that point. Um. And, uh and building. This whole, thing. On the blockchain. Where. You they keep perfect records so, so let me, kind of explain why i'm excited about this. I don't have to pay a bookkeeper. An accountant, an auditor. Any of that. Because, everything's, taken care of on the blockchain. As long as the software, is built for. Financial, statements. And and, cash flow statements, and what else. And. The, the smart contract, keeps perfect, records. So that i don't have to, pay a transfer, agent, and a lawyer. To just figure out who gets what, in my. Of my investors. So i am really looking forward to, taking, d5, which is really.
Loan Based, now, where investors, are. Lending, and borrowing. To the point where, we're really, putting the money to work and we're taking. Bitcoin, and investing, directly. Into companies. Now, the reason i can't do that now, is it it's a triple, accounting, cost, i've done it before, i've tried it, it turns out that the accountant. Makes you translate. It to. First you pay taxes, if you gain anything on the bitcoin. Then the accountant, makes you. Um, account, for it first in bitcoin, then in dollars then back in bitcoin, and then back in dollars. So i i paid about, three. Times. The amount to my accountant. Just. To do it in bitcoin, which is ridiculous. Because, hey we got the blockchain, we don't even need the accountant. So i'm i'm feeling, like we're, the future. We're going to go from this defy, world to one that's. Super, deep. With uh. Where, where, investors, can, take and invest in companies. Trade. Bitcoin, for shares. And, then go to refi, where, where bitcoin, is just a. Currency, they can. Where you can send it wherever you want, already. Bitcoin, so much easier to use than dollars, because if i needed to send you money. Right now. I, i could just go to my coinbase, account just go here. And, if. My alternative. Is, call the bank. Asks them to wire money to your account you have to give them. Account. Um, numbers, you have to give them all the account numbers you have to. Um, that you have in your bank. And, then you've got to say oh yeah it arrived, and all that stuff i can just. Send it to you it'll show up in your wallet. And we're done, so i actually, think. Longer, term. Um. Refi. At retail. Is where this is all going to really happen. Tim in terms of you know there's a lot of, these new, d5, projects, out there. And all sorts of different exchanges. And. Applications. Coming out, um, from a, venture perspective, i know, we talked about last time, in our previous, catch-up, that your favorite column, and category. Was the other, category. Um. Which. Um, which which i i think all of our our, our, watchers our community here really loved, and, they've been thinking about that a lot and there's been a lot of discussion about that but. You know when it comes to d5, are you placing that in the other. Category, and i guess. You know. You does this does this catch your eye is this is this part of your thesis, from a venture perspective. Yeah and let me describe, the other category, in greater, detail. Um, where i i say okay a certain amount's going to go after, healthcare and a certain amount's going to go after. Finance, and a certain amount is going to go after gov tech and whatever. And then. I say other because. I never know, what, an entrepreneur, could potentially. Be bringing me. And this fund, is, it's four years of investment, in 10 years of life. During those four years a lot can happen. And during that time i, fact i should have more than a quarter of the fund dedicated, to other, because anything, can happen okay that said. Um is d5, part of other. Actually, no because, a, big part of d5, comes from. Fintech. Which is a very, large, section, in our, investment, thesis. Where, um, you know we, we saw finance. Changing, early, i was lucky i invested, in robin hood. Carter. Angel list. Bitcoin. Um. And a number of others that are that are um, all going after sort of this fintech, window. And i would say that d phi is in that fintech, window. Although. Some of d5. Is very, exciting, where. Um, where, they're, it's a little bit more um. D gov. It's a little more. Uh, government, tech or. Insure, tech or, real estate tech. It's. Um, it's. Pretty, um. Fascinating. What. Can, be changed. With these new. Decentralized. Technologies. Um. The the aragon, guys are doing, um a new form of jury. And so. Uh they're creating, a way for, for us to have a jury of peers. That, um, and they use token, economy. To create, that jury, and it's it can be more of an effective, jury than any, other jury out there. And they're trying it with simple. Small claims but it's getting it's going to be bigger and bigger and bigger, and eventually. It will be, um. The equivalent, of a liquid democracy. Where, where i give you. My vote, for uh. One. One, issue. And i give my vote to. Uh, tobias. For. Another, issue. Um, and then, you guys then give your votes and and eventually, it comes to some. Uh. Real vote. Where the consensus. Is that we go in this direction or that direction. That's really, powerful, and that that can all come through aragon, through the ant. Token. Um. I also, think that, something, interesting, is happening, in insurance. Where. Um. Right now, you could create, an insurance. I mean when you do insurance, when you buy insurance. You pay your premium, you pay your premium you pay your premium, and then you have a claim. And then they fight you on that claim. And they, send lawyers, after you and inspectors. And whatever, else, and then finally, they go okay well here we'll pay you a little bit something on your claim.
And That's how they make their money they. They collect, easily, and they pay very slowly, and painfully. Well i think the consumer, is really going to enjoy this new, way of insuring. Which is, you put it on a smart, contract. And that smart contract, is tied to certain, events. And so you are paying your premiums, on the smart contract. And then when that event happens, when somebody, dies, or. There's a car crash or whatever. Um, it is instantaneous. And you get paid. And the, claims. Inspector. Can be surveillance. They can say, yeah we actually, have a drone, that flew over that area, and they saw that your house burned down, so here's the money, done. And, uh, and so as an insurance, customer, i'll be going oh my god i got to do that that's way better. And when you have a tragedy. You want that payment, right away and you don't want to have to fight with the insurance company, and so that's a whole new form of insurance. But if you take that. A little further, you realize that about 80 percent of what government, does, is insurance. It's healthcare, insurance, it's work means comp insurance, it's welfare, insurance, it's, your. Unemployment. Insurance, it's all those insurance, programs, all, lumped together. Well. If i can put all those insurance, programs. On the blockchain. With some smart contracts. And have people pay in bitcoin, to. Participate. I can actually, change the whole nature of government. I don't actually need a physical. Location. For a government, i can do this. Up in space or 11 miles offshore. And i can provide, you better, government, service, than you're getting today. And you add. The surveillance. Part and you've got the cameras, and all that. You can actually. Provide, the defense, too. Um, so it's, it's, pretty, interesting, what could happen to government. And. Who is my government, i i spend. About, half my life. On, in other countries. Uh well i did until covet. And uh, and and in plenty of other states. Why is it that i'm paying california. In the united, states, and my local, town and. Uh, county why am i paying them taxes, when a lot of my. Taxes should be spread. To other places. And then why. Are we allowing, them to have. Lines, at the dmv. And, all these fights about whether you you get a mail-in, ballot or a in-person. Ballot when we could all do our ballots. On a smartphone. And we'd be much more secure and everybody, would feel good about how the boat comes out. Um. Why am i doing it that way when. Governance. Is. A big part of governance, if not all of governance. Will be decentralized. And that's, that's kind of a mind-blowing. Thought. That gets people thinking, wait what we're going to have. A change, and that change is going to be an, anthropological.
Leap. You talked about the four. Industrial. Revolutions. I actually think we're going to have, an anthropological. Leap, from being tribal, to global. And these politicians. Are saying that are saying things like, we need a trade barrier, here or a trade war here or a, border, here. They are sort of the roar of the the, dying, lion. Uh. Because, the light you know the lion, he's the king of the forest and then all of a sudden. He's getting weaker, and weaker and weaker and finally, just before he dies there's a big roar, well that's what we've done. And that's with the, this uh covid, lockdown. By the way worst policy, decision, in the history of the world. To lock, down. To try to keep the disease, away. That. That alone. Is apparently, according to the u.n. Going to kill. 135. Million. People, from starvation. We're all interconnected. We're a part of a supply, chain. If i'm. If i'm if i have a farm and you have a house. And we don't do a deal we're the only two people around. And we don't do a deal. Then, um. Then you die of starvation. And i die of exposure. Now you multiply, that by eight. Billion, people. We're all, interconnected. Your. Your, uh, your. Pen, comes from, 50 different, people that all got together. It might be in 12 different countries. Your, computer. Probably, came from, 50, different countries. And touched. A hundred, thousand, different, people. You we are all, interconnected. We're all. A part of this great world economy. And the power of that free market, just keeps getting more valuable. Well, if all of a sudden you lock it down, or you say nobody can travel or you say, here here's our border nobody, cross it or we're gonna have a trade war with china whatever. Those are all, bad. Bad decisions, that hit that, shoot you in the foot. Whereas. If you say hey we're an open economy. Come on in. All of a sudden, all the, best and the brightest, are going to come to you. When china. Said bitcoin's. Illegal. Japan, said bitcoin, is going to be our national, currency, or one of them. There was a brain. Drain, out of china, that, was unprecedented. And one that went into japan. That was also unprecedented. That's because. All these governments. Are. Are starting, to realize. That they have to. Compete, for us they have to provide. Great service. Or we will leave. And, uh in those governments, that are still trying to be the roar of the dying lion and controlling, everything. In a in an economy, that's global, and decentralized. Are missing, the whole boat. And this, this, uh, retraction. To, socialism. Is, the. Stupidest. Thing i can think of, i mean maybe people just don't know what socialism, is but. Socialism. Is. North, korea. Capitalism. Is south korea, okay, north korea, people are starving. Average person makes a hundred dollars, a year, south korea, average person makes forty six thousand dollars a year. It's it's been going on for about three generations. This. Break in korea. The average, south korean, is four inches, taller, than the average north korean. Where do you want to be you want to be in the free market economy, you want to be a part of capitalism. You want to be a part of this interlocked. Group of people who are all. Doing business, with each other who are all trading, with each other. And. The way to get there, is, with these i mean now. We've got the internet. And now we've got a way of doing business. Across, borders. There's no stopping, us we have bitcoin, we have. This, open, transparent. Global. Wonderful, world. And uh, and these, the tribal, world is going away. And this is a. Such an exciting, time, as a venture, investor, i love the internet i love what it did everything was great. This is so much bigger. This is the, anthropological. Leap. And, and we're going to be on a, major, tidal wave. Tim um you talked about, uh last time, um, you know your 250, 000. Uh price target 2023. Um. Now, i think, you you also mentioned, the. Uh coronavirus. Obviously. And the printing of. Uh you know quite quite a large, amount of u.s treasury. Uh funds. And. Um, you know that's a that's a phenomena. I'm not sure we've seen. In history. As well i think. And it's a it's, it obviously, um. Um. You know will it plays, very, very strongly, into the thesis, and and and um of bitcoin. I wanted to ask, um. Would you actually. Increase. Or, decrease. Your prediction. I i can move it forward, a little bit because my prediction, was 2020. End of 2022. Beginning, of, 2023. It's kind of in that range. And. What i was counting on, is, um where everybody, goes starts using bitcoin, for retail, and that. Then, it becomes. Uh. At least five percent of the world. Um. In, uh. World currency. But you hit on another point you said it's unprecedented. That anybody's, ever printed. 13, trillion, dollars. But. When you go to argentina. You realize they're printing money like crazy, there, because they are deeply, in debt and they're trying to pay that debt, in argentinian.
Pesos. I had a, bet, i tried to make with uh president, mccree, i told him about, bitcoin. About. Four years ago. And then two years ago and. When it was at about, 10th hour it just hit 10 000.. And then, about two years later i came and i met with him again and i said you know that bitcoin i told you about it's now down to about four thousand. And he goes yeah yeah i heard, and i said, um, yeah but during that time the argentinian, pesos, dropped from 75, cents to 25, cents. And i said um so i'll make you a bet. That if, the argentinian. Peso. Out does bitcoin, then i'll double. My investment, in argentina. But if if, bitcoin, does better than the argentinian, peso you'll make bitcoin, in, a national, currency, like japan, did. And he looked at me and he goes well i don't know we may have to do another devaluation. He was he was hedging. He didn't really bet. So, he got. Thrown out of office it's been about a year since then he's he's been thrown out of office. And the argentinian. Peso, has gone from 25, cents. At that point 75, to 25. To, less than one, penny. And they have just been printing money like crazy and they're trying to make the dollar illegal. And they're doing, everything, they can to try to, like. Put it together, but the, argentinians. Don't trust it they don't have the trust. In their currency, and so. The people who are trying to build something of long-term, value. Are using, bitcoin. Uh, so yeah, it's unprecedented. In the u.s, to print. 20. More. Currency, in one, fell swoop. But it's not unprecedented. Around the world, and what it does is it creates inflation. And that inflation. Makes people think shorter, term. They don't build things for the long term, they trust their currency, less. They trust their government, less. And, there's a downward, spiral. And you know you think about trust. Trust is everything. When, no one trusted, people in singapore. That was, 60 years ago. Lee kuan yew came and they were, making about. A hundred dollars, per capita. Per year. Um. Lee kuan yew came in and he built, trust, one brick at a time all the way through. And that is probably the most trustworthy, country in the world now, and now their, per capita, income is one of the top in the entire world. Whereas. India, historically. Has been, not trustworthy. It's been very corrupt, at the top and that comes all the way down. And so that. Not, having enough trust. Makes it so people live for the moment they don't live. To build things, of great value for the future, africa. Many countries, in africa. Are very corrupt, and have been, and if you have corruption, at the top and you're saying i'm going to build this big business. All of a sudden the government's going to sweep in there and take it. There's no incentive, to build it. So trust, is really, important, and when you print, currency. Willy-nilly. Like that, you are undermining, the trust, in your currency, and i think it's a, it's dangerous. Um. Hopefully. It's v-shaped. And we're all back to work and, whatever, but, the u.n, is predicting, 135. In addition. To, domestic. Violence, and depression. And. And, you know, disassociation. And. People. Uh, we're gonna get, 135. Million. People. Dying of starvation. Just because we, cut them off the supply, chain. This is, really, attractive, is a tragedy. That, we've created, ourselves. Out of a tragedy, that was, minor, we have created, a, major. Tragedy, 135. Times, as bad. By locking, down. Tim in terms of let's talk about macroeconomics. And and really, lean into that a little more um. There's, obviously, uh quite a um. I'm not sure how to. A bumpy, election, coming. Um last night was um a bit of a fire oh my god, did you see that, that, debate. It was they were down in the mud. That was crazy. I i mean i was thinking if i were. If i were trump, i would just let the guy talk because, you know he's a little bit. Uh. Senile. Um. And i'd let, biden talk because biden's a little senile. But instead, he went at him. And. Biden probably had more. Neurons, firing, during that than he has in years. And, uh, and trump looks so awful, being so. Nasty, and aggressive. And. You know. Whatever. I, i i'm, sort of looking for the statesman. Where is our statesman, or the visionary, where's our visionary. Um brock pierce said he was going to run for president, and so. Let's support him. He wants he. He just needs to take montana. Or wyoming. He only has to take. Wyoming, one state. Because if there's a. Deadlock, between the other two it goes to congress. And he might just end up being the president. This was. It was embarrassing. That debate was embarrassing. It was wild and i think. You know we've got another, you know low consumer, spending.
Um, Wages, are pretty stagnant. Um, you know unemployment's, coming back, at a record, speed but it's still pretty high, um. You know but then on the other side and i think this is where i think people are a bit baffled. Is the stock markets at an all-time, high. And. I i, it's pulled back a bit, there's a bit of uncertainty. Right now, in trading but i wanted to, get your view. On. You know, as an investor, like what do you make of that. How do you interpret. That and and. Yeah what what where, how do you how do you play from here. I was so wrong. I caught. I completely. Bailed out of the. Public, markets. Uh well before. Covid, hit. Because i thought wow these are pretty high prices. But then. With covet, and when he printed the 13, trillion, dollars. That money went into the individual. The individual, decided, to invest, it. And there was. A lot of demand, for stock, and not much supply. And so it skyrocketed. This, stock market, it created, amazing. Wealth. And, um, and i suspect, that we'll have a very robust. Ipo, market, coming. To follow, it. Um. But there will be a time. Three years from now two or three years from now that's a little bit of a. Well. You know, the economy, didn't, really. Come, back. As quickly as we had hoped. Because the stock market at current prices, at least the public, stocks, today. Are, anticipating. Everything going perfectly. It's got a i mean they've got to hit, huge, growth, numbers they got to have huge, profitability. Numbers. To justify. The. Crazy, high valuations. That they have. Out there. Um, but you know it makes pretty good sense that zoom and amazon, had big, booms. Um. It. Doesn't, necessarily, make sense that some of these other companies, had big booms with them. Luckily, a lot of the things in my portfolio. Have been, um. Uh have benefited. From. The, covid, and the lockdown, because. Uh, a lot of it, relies, on, remote. Whether it's remote, medicine, or remote, education. Or. Whatever. And so. We have, seen. You know real, upticks, in, in the business. The base businesses. That we've funded, but, we haven't seen the valuations. That the public, market, has been experiencing. And you know when the individual, investor, comes into the public market, it does, have a run like this. And then it does flatten, out. And then there's the ipos, that follow they fill, they backfill. And then there's a point at which people. You know somebody, sort of says wait a second. Um, there's a problem, here. The, the earnings aren't matching, the. Uh, valuations. And, we gotta. You know and then it comes tumbling, down and the individual, leaves the market. And uh the institutions. Are uh, kind of creeped back in. And then it starts all over again, so so i think you know and some people are saying, you know, with this. This principle i missed it so i'm not sure i'm the one to talk to, i'm sure there are other people who have figured this out made a lot of money and. You know they know they know better than i do. I think uh maybe. The interpretation. I think, that i'm interested, in your view on is do you think potentially. You know some of these big tech stocks are now seen not necessarily, for their investment potential. But as stores of value. Purely because. I, think that i think people, said. Look i've got all this money i don't want the dollar, i don't want the cash. Because, i realize this cash, is like. Melting, ice cream. It's dropping, in value, as we speak, because they've printed so many of them, so let me use it to buy some of these stocks. Well that. Shot that was a that was some of the impetus, to to have the stock market, shoot up, because, before, they printed that money, the stock market did take a huge dive, on kovid. And it was just but it was, almost, for, just a day or a week that went down and then came shooting back up, jimmy. You know i think another thing uh um. It's what's right now is, i think everyone's looking at. The business, landscape. And things have changed. You know. I think. The first question i have is from an investor. Perspective. Looking at the the landscape. How are you sort of seeing that. And and how you sort of you know, i guess. The main question how are you investing, for the long term. Well i have some concerns, because i did notice. That, um. I, i went. Two or three weeks straight, doing about 10 zoom calls a day. And i was. Starting, to wonder, why, i do this what. I because i. You, you get people on the other end of a zoom call but you don't get humanity. On the other side of the zoom call. And so you don't, feel the people you don't see, into the. Spirit, in their eyes, and their energy, and their feel, the way you do in person. And so, what we did, was, i just said. Look i'm.
Going To start going back to the office on tuesdays. And if other people want to come great if you want to stay home that's great too. But we'll have our meetings, at the office. And we can zoom you in or whatever. It made a big difference. And i encourage. Other, groups to do it, facebook, just by saying. Uh, you know everybody, can be remote for the next two years or whatever. Or what google said something like that. Um. I, think that they, may be losing, something, that way because. Um there's something, to the energy, of, of a brainstorm. Where you're going back and forth about something you don't do that on a zoom call, there's something about like, the, responsibility. You feel for the people around, you. You don't want to let them down. That kind of goes away on a zoom call so. I think that people really do need to go back, to work i think they need to start. Commuting, to work, and, maybe. It changes, maybe it's like. Two or three days a week now, and not. Five days a week or six. And, um. And how am i looking to invest, in the future, um. I'm probably going to do more of the same but. I do know that. Um, like vr. Is probably gonna have a real heyday, moving forward. Um. Bitcoin, crypto, i think. This is going to uh. Really, make people, think, and uh accelerate, their interest, in. Making this our our global currency. Um, i think. Um. I think that, uh. Some of the big industries, in the world, are going through. Major, changes. And. And i'm going to invest to those big industries. And. And i think that. Travel's, going to come back i think it's going to come back, um, a little bit at a time. And then people are going to but i think it'll come back with a vengeance, i think people will eventually. Want to travel. Um, i think. Sports, games people are going to want to go to sports, games again they're going to want to go to concerts. So. Um, i think we're going to have, kind of a. A, pretty, great, moment. When, the. Vaccination. Shows up, even if it's not that effective. Uh, i think people are looking for a moment, where they can get back. And be human, again. And that, that means, being a part of this world economy. Being. An integral, part of your community. Of your neighborhood, of your world, of your government. And i think that's going to, come that's going to be. Something. Now. I am kind of looking for. Companies, that are. Kind of solving, mental health issues. Because i'm thinking. In, education. Remote education. And that kind of thing because i'm thinking.
Boy, The people i've talked to they are. Desperate, when i i, went to a party recently. And uh about 40 people there. And, uh, and i looked around and i thought, these people. Are desperate, to see other people. You know they don't care if i was their worst, enemy. Six months ago. All of a sudden, i'm their best friend they're just so happy to see a human. And, uh, and i think that we really need to get back together. Um. And if you need to wear a mask great, but, uh but this. Um. Human, separation. Is not healthy, and, i and that's, not good for society. And definitely, the lockdowns. Where you say your, restaurant, can't do this or a, spa can't do this or. A. Airplane. Can't do this. Those are, bad, those are, those are uh. People, killers. They, they, uh, they kill people from, of starvation. And that was the u.n, that that opened i i kind of knew that this was wrong i, wrote a tweet that said. The cure may be worse than the disease, and people. Really, beat on me for it because they really wanted. To be afraid. Or something. But i was just saying well look there are all these other effects, if you if you lock down these businesses, there are all these other effects. A waitress, with three children, can't afford the kids where, she's on the street, what what happens from there what do you do. I. I think people didn't really think through all the repercussions. And they're coming. So. There are going to be other things, that. Are going to be. Affected. And i think. They're going to be, mass. Exoduses. Brain drains, from. Bad governments. Into. Good governments. I think governments, are on notice, they've got to provide, better, service. People are looking and saying hey boy this isn't working for me. This lockdown. Shocked, my my system, i thought i kind of had it all worked out. Now i'm out of here, i'm going to go start my life again somewhere, else. Um. I uh. I actually noticed that, that there is a woman, in the back behind you, who has had two hugs in during the, course of my conversation. So i love that you guys are loving, each other, it's we knew we all need more hugs. This, the zoom, made it real it made us all realize, that we just need more hugs. Um, the only person who i. Think, felt like this worked for her, she said. I'm, an introvert. And i, and when i'm out with a lot of people, i i feel like i get sucked, dry. And i have to recharge. Uh, but the extrovert. Benefits, from, seeing a lot of people in in that. Interaction. So. Um yeah it's gonna be different. I do think that um. Education. Has, got to go through a big change because. The unions have controlled, it for a long time. It's been very static. And, uh. And they don't even know how to teach. Computer, science, in. K-12. They don't even know, in fact they took. Binary, math, off the curriculum. And uh and so clearly, there is a need for a new form of education. That is not union, driven. And that's probably, going to happen. Um. They're going to be a lot of really interesting, things that, come from this and, i you know i can project, all i want but it's really going to be a few entrepreneurs. That come in to my office that really change. Everything. Team i'm gonna um. If you're one of those. Great entrepreneurs. And you have a business, plan. That's conditional. Then i'm tim, at, draper.vc. Send me your business plan, but if you put me on some weird list i just. Well, you'll be in my spam block. So, uh so but if you are an entrepreneur. I want to hear from you so. We need you, if you're an entrepreneur, we need you, get, get us out of this thing get us. You know get us a vaccine. So everybody can relax. Get us. Some immunity. From the media. So that we don't live in fear. Get us some immunity. From the, politicians. Who are grandstanding. Trying to build their bases. By, scaring, the heck out of everybody. Um. Get. Bill. Do something. To make us free again. I love it and then i'll find you. It's a great call out, um. And, um. I wanted to um. Um i guess. I think that's a great, you know punctuation. Point as well to to sort of wrap up i do have one final, question. Tim did i ask everyone. And we we, we make this collection, every, every and i think this year uh, it's it's a it's a mystery to me, it's becoming grayer and foggy i think everyone who's watching as well, but, do you have a price, in in us dollars for bitcoin. Um, in. Terms of new year's eve. 2020. We've got very interesting trading going on right now all sorts of international.
Uh Geopolitical. Um. Changes. Uh central government changes, all those kinds of things. Would love to hear your your your final closing, remarks, on on bitcoin. And, and where you think we might be. So there are a lot of hedge funds that are moving, the price up and down, pretty. Actively. Uh so it could be anywhere, in a range, it's the reason i'm projecting, out more than. Uh, just. A year or six months or a, year and a half or whatever. Is that. I have a much better, sense for what it's going to look like in 2022. Or 2023. Where it's going to be around, 250. 000 maybe higher. But. I don't have a very clear view. Of what's going to happen between, now and then. I suspect, generally, it's going up. But i i don't, i don't project, sort of in the, in the mid points, i just sort of say well look. You know when it was 20 in 2014. I said, it's going to be 10, 000, in 2017. And i hit it right on the number. Well now i realize that it has to go through its. Machinations. It has to, the engineers, have to do all their work. And then, it will, it will find its sweet spot, and then it's going to be. You know. Crazy, valuable, but um, i i can't even pick a. I'd be picking a number completely, out of the year. But, 250k. At the end of 2022. Or beginning of 2023. That, you can just, bank on. Tim thank you so much and obviously no financial, advice that was just an opinion from team obviously. Yeah. Yeah that's, i'm gonna bank. I'm not giving you any advice no advice at all don't take my advice. Think of what i did i got out of the stock market before the big boom. So. Don't, don't listen to me don't listen, i agree. We just wanted to make sure everyone knows that, um. Tim thank you so much for joining us on the daily exchange. And, obviously. You've got your your linkedin, twitter that do follow, uh tim there, um he's very active. And thank you again for joining us. It's at tim draper. For um, twitter, and linkedin, it's at timothy, draper. Thank you so much, all right guys that is the daily exchange team draper, predicting, the 250k. 2023. We'll see you guys do subscribe to follow us. Yeah. All right fred, good. Job.