How Tech Diplomacy is Transforming the International System

hello everybody my name is Alexandra Li I'm the vice president of astina and the chapter head of the Pacific South chapter and it is my particular pleasure to welcome Martin row today a good friend who has done really exciting work that he's going to share with us today Martin is the founder of the tech diplomacy Network in San Francisco and the executive um director of the jasi resident artists program in Woodside he works at the intersection of diplomacy Arts technology and the environment for two years he was Austria's First Tech Ambassador in Silicon Valley because he is an Austrian Diplomat for more than five years he was the head of open Austria and the Austrian Council in San Francisco in all of those through all of those different positions and roles he helped shape the emerging field of tech diplomacy engaged in transit Atlantic digital diplomacy and digital human rights he also developed digital humanism as a strategic focus of Austrian foreign policy we welcome him today and look forward to his talk entitled Technologies is the message how Tech diplomacy is transforming the International System welcome Martin thank you so much Alexandra and uh thank you so much for all of you who made it uh to this uh meeting uh on Zoom uh talking about uh something that is of course very dear to my heart and increasingly to many other colleagues uh in the field of diplomacy Tech diplomacy uh and talking a little bit about something that I would Define as a practice uh that is uh slowly developing a sound conceptual basis of what it is that Tech diplomats have been doing for a while now and that uh also leads me to maybe just add to the very kind introductory words of Alexandra uh since this is in the context of asina a network of of scientists and researchers that I highly admire I do not consider myself as as a researcher or scientists or or an academic but as a practitioner career Diplomat in fact uh working on this intersection uh of the practice that I care uh most about and where I've kind of worked a lot in the last years uh and that is uh technology on the one hand but also the cultural diplomacy cultural um management uh and the Arts and in fact uh right now uh I am still uh in the Bay Area you see behind me uh the Golden Gate Bridge uh I still work here uh exactly on this inter uh section of the Arts culture uh and Technology on the one hand as executive director director of an artist in Residency program uh and on the other hand uh I work uh with uh the colleagues uh in the tech diplomacy Network and I want to talk about this uh latter um uh activity today uh which however will at some point uh also uh overlap uh with my other uh passion and practice the culture and the Arts so I will now start uh with a short presentation I've prepared um a few slides on that uh so my talk today is going to be uh on uh technology um and diplomacy the intersection between the two um and I've titled uh I gave kind of the title how um technology is the message how Tech diplomacy is transforming um the International System and this is for me important um this reference to muhan uh just to say that technology is not uh in my view just a tool that is at the disposal of di diplomacy I think there are many many layers uh in which technology uh is informing the International System and therefore uh is also um a reality uh in the work uh of diplomats uh today um there are four uh shifts uh in en compassed by the rise of tech diplomacy um the one is that there are uh new topics on the Diplomatic uh agenda that have somehow to do with Technologies and not only digital Technologies but also um biotechnologies if you if you think of the kind of aspects uh in the during the global uh pandemic um that were um had to do with somehow understanding also the scientific basis the technological responses and of course also um The Diplomatic uh aspects in the International System there's kind of a form of non um digital um aspects of new technologies of course there are new uh topics when it comes to security traditionally security is an um is very very high on the agenda of diplomats and of course now that we are in the cyber space cyber security has become one of the new uh topics I would say over the last 5 to 10 years but there are many many others and I'm going to talk about them later on uh there are new venues of Engagement traditionally diplomats um uh operate in centers of political power uh but uh Tech diplomacy interestingly emerged uh in a I would say Center of economic power um in the San Francisco Bay area so which is not even the capital of the state of California which is in Sacramento quite far away but the San Francisco Bay area or what is generally called the Silicon Valley um is um kind of a center of many of the headquarters of big Global platforms where a lot of decisions are made that uh affect uh the entire world uh there are also new actors uh in the international field uh traditionally um diplomacy is defined by the West faan system nation states um that evolved kind of over the last 100 years uh and really is about is a technique is a tool is an instrument that Nation stat have in order to um manage uh their relations uh and uh of course we have uh it's not new that there are new actors there are also non-state actors this concept is not new to to to international relations but take diplomacy is is a reaction to a very uh spefic specific new non-state actor and I would say that's the private sector in technology big tech companies primarily that sometimes act almost like nation states in terms of their um economic power some of the revenues of the big uh Tech platforms uh surpass uh the GDP of small to medium-sized States but also in the kind of decisionmaking power that are very often not only economic but also political that some of these um big players have but even the mid midsize small players through the fact that they sometimes grow very very fast so that they develop a technology that has a global impact need to be calculated in this kind of new actors these new actors are don't act uniformly they don't always have the same interest uh therefore it is sometimes a little bit superficial to say the tech industri thinking as if they were one uniform actor they have very very different ways of acting sometimes um against each other in competition sometimes in they align uh with nation states and sometimes they oppose them and then of course uh Tech diplomacy is also in the very kind of concrete way a new form of representation um by traditional diplomatic actors historically we're kind of go through that um the term came into use uh I would say around five to six years ago um very very visibly in 2017 when the Danish government appointed um a tech ambassador to Silicon Valley some people at the time thought was this a publicity stunt uh what does that really mean the tech Ambassador um but very very um soon after other countries including Austria also started develop um not only uh titles uh but also a practice practice that corresponded uh to what the Danish were trying to achieve um other countries followed very very soon the European Union uh in 2022 opened an office uh for the first time uh in San Francisco also corresponding to this kind of new need uh it was also a new step for the European Union a new need to enter into dialogue with the private sector and explaining what the EU uh was doing uh in terms of of course mainly Tech policy um uh in the digital and technological in in the in the technology field so the EU also being a new uh actor in The Tech diplomacy field what are when we say technology of course is a is a a a very very long and big uh word and concept of course we are talking mainly about Technologies uh that are p pionering that are new that are Frontier technologies that are technologies that usually open up spaces that not are not entirely defined um that maybe create new markets that create sometimes the need of either self- regulation or governmental regulation that pose new challenges to society to the institutions Democratic institutions as well as other multilateral institutions uh that Bas but sometimes even go deeper and uh pose philosophical questions about uh what it means uh to be a human being so we're talking about this kind of Frontier technologies that we um have seen emerging uh over the last 10 years whether it is artificial intelligence and usest form of it in generative EI robotics um virtual reality mixed reality um Quantum technology is one of those technologies that diplomats now increasingly engage because um of the the mainly claims and promises that this technology brings for the solution of to many of the planet's problem problems but also um as a potential problem um if if some of these claims will become true so when we talk about tech diplomacy um we do not only talk about the sphere of the digital we talk about Frontier Technologies um and the centers of the private sector the headquarters of the private sector what we call kind of the Innovation ecosystems and their main hubs therefore also become the locations the geographic locations of where the tech diplomats mainly operate why Tech diplomacy um because the global tech industry as I said has emerged as a new actor in international relations technological and digital uh transformation has an impact not only on our institutions but on our values as well our norms and as and also the geopolitical landscape uh this practice has emerged historically in Silicon Valley as a nation field for practitioners representing government civil society and and the Global Tech companies um has now uh and I will go into that spread out is not only practiced in in in in the San Francisco Bay area but has spread out to different uh hubs uh and also governments need to collaborate with each other and the private sector in shaping a global governance framework for Frontier technology so this realization it's a realization that comes from the government side but it's also a realization that comes from the private sector side that is calling on governments on nation states uh to collaborate to interfere to provide Frameworks of of global governance of some of these um of some of these Frontier Technologies uh what is uh Tech diplomacy I said Tech diplomacy has been a practice now for a while in search of its own uh conceptual Frameworks um so there's been several attempts to Define it uh we are uh defining it um at the tech diplomacy Network very Loosely as a new tool in international relations between nation states and now new the private sector and other stakeholders uh mainly Civil Society um but also individual citizens to collaborate in the fields of EI cyber security Quantum Computing biotech web 3 and others and work on shaping Global policy Frameworks and on tackling common planetary uh challenges uh when we say it shapes values I think it is sometimes very helpful to work um as a diplomat kind of uh in the kind of deeper way on what are these kind of values that you base your your Tech diplomacy approach um and we at the Austrian foreign Ministry um at the time uh take took resource to recourse uh to the concept of digital humanism uh digital humanism um is when it comes uh you know to the field of uh foreign policy um it is the kind of concerns uh with developments that deeply affect our human values when we think of algorithmic decision making and its roles potential roles but also actual already realized roles in um in the military in in in the weapons um industry and their applications in in in in drone Warfare um and human decision making or non-human decision making we understand that this has um an immediate impact on on the International Security and the kind of Concepts we need to apply to it are very very impactful and have a very concrete reality uh lethal autonomous weapon systems whether uh and the degree of autonomy they have and the the question of how human beings are involved in the decision making of course they are very very crucial there's also this idea as the Israeli historian Harari pointed out to these new technologies that there's a secret desire to end human finiteness um that there's like a desire in them when we think of artificial intelligence and some of the promises and claims of Singularity that this is to to end our human finiteness so that's of course um posing a challenge to traditional concepts of human uh aut autonomy therefore you need a kind of very sound um um value base uh in order to tackle with some of the claims and promises that these new frontier Technologies um provide and very concretely of course there's also a challenge to how um uh these applications of some of these Frontier Technologies directly affect our human rights particularly in the digital sphere so there's a um a strong um reaction a strong need a strong urgency for countries that care a lot about human rights to make sure that in the digital sphere uh there application um uh is also guaranteed according to International Norms Universal norms and standards and then of course there's another big fear uh and that is the question of substitution of human activities uh through uh automation the question um of uh how these new technologies are going to affect um our Workforce and whether or not um many of the activities that we do including diplomacy itself um whe whether or not they will be replaced through automation um I remember um the Chinese AI expert Kai fi he once put on his web page um a kind of uh a kind of prompt where you could put in your profession um and uh it it basically predicted it was three or four years ago um whether or not this profession would be replaced by EI and I of course put in Diplomat and then and then it said that it was very unlikely that it would ever be replaced um I'm not so sure about that I think we have been surprised um he also said that creative and the artists would never be replaced that's the one sphere that is um reserved to human activities I'm not so sure through the recent developments um in generative EI whether this human Monopoly on creativity will hold up forever but course that's one of that's delving right into um the uh contemporary uh debates um but I I'm just saying it is good to have a kind of foundational uh conceptual basis uh which which you guide uh your foreign policy in this digital uh realm and digital humanism for us in the Austrian case um was kind of the basis of kind of the umbrella concept with which we um then thought of our different um specific foreign policy Realms there's also a tradition in Austria uh to talk about digital humanism in city of Vienna um the um in 2019 was a group of um scientists technologists University or the Technical University of Vienna that published the Vienna manifest of digital humanism and in this manifest you can see a strong concerns of Human Rights specifically privacy uh and freedom of speech of course worry about how Democratic institutions are affected uh by some of some of the digital Technologies strong um urge for regulations and effective laws and um also concerned with the with um the tendency of these big scale digital platforms to form monopolies so digital humanism also um as a conceptual movement um that that um very strongly um Associated to Austria now while I felt that digital humanism was a very um important um conceptual basis for Tech diplomacy I also don't want to hide that there are kind of challenges to that idea particularly when you think um of the environment um and some of the damages some of the challenges um that are caused by us the anthropos scene um so uh I'm just putting here uh if digital humanism is very often symbolized by kind of a digital representation of the vetruvian uh Man by Leonardo DaVinci um putting the human in the Center of everything also maybe has its downsides uh and in think in 201 11 the artist John Quigley um projected the V truvian man on on on a melting um ice cap uh and kind of said okay so so this is also some of the effects of putting the human uh in the center uh so digital humanism has also its its problems its challenges for us um when in my old fun at open Austria um we also saw digital humanism as a um way to um also engage um the culture and the Arts cultural diplomacy we even coin the term of cultural Tech diplomacy as an important um element where we kind of bring artistic thinking philosophical thinking uh into technology and a very interesting way uh to engage as diplomats through our artists and the art world and we helped together with um our colleagues from um other um European countries we we at the time founded a platform called The Grid uh which was really trying to bring artists uh technologists uh and even at some point policy makers uh together uh so including the artists in the picture because we believe that art uh powers of Technology um there's also another element that we then uh did very concretely uh we um brought the freedom online Coalition uh an organization of like-minded countries I think it's about 34 35 countries um that have a strong conviction um that digital human rights in the internet need to be defended uh and we kind of said okay but we need to also connect uh this uh idea with the private sector uh and we brought um at at there was big annual conference of the freedom online Coalition in Acra um in Africa and we there decided as countries to bring the freedom online coalition to Silicon Valley and to establish a very concrete local dialogue um with the private sector so this is a very concrete example um of tech diplomacy in action and there's now the freedom online coalition's Silicon Valley work working group that regularly um uh talks about uh digital human rights with private sector um Representatives one more thing open Austria was founded in 20 2016 um as legally speaking as a as a consulate kind of was a hybrid between a diplomatic Mission uh and Innovation Hub um together with the Austrian uh Trade Commission and at some point also the Austrian business agency functioned as an Innovation Hub but also as very very soon developed um Tech diplomacy as one of its main pillars um I I also uh I want to quickly uh point to the mission of open Austria as a focus point for entrepreneurs startup scientists reach search as policy makers and creative mind so this very interdisciplinary approach uh which uh innovation of course needs um and is the basis of the success of Silicon Valley to create uh Innova new uh Technologies uh and we kind of mirrored that in our mission by saying okay we we have an interdisciplinary approach here to this diplomacy but also to our um stakeholders and bring them uh to Silicon Valley um another aspect I think historically speaking about tech diplomacy is that it is when we think of it happened historically 2016 uh 2018 uh this is kind of also the time of the techlash um a a term I think coined by The Economist as a reaction to a certain uh things that happened in technology um if if we think of the Cambridge analytica scandal in 2018 was also the year gdpr went into Force the uh um the the the digital um uh data Protection Law of the European Union at the same time Mark Zuckerberg had to testify in front of the US Congress as well as in front of um the European Parliament which was very very uh symbolic um in terms of uh this kind of euphoria that had accompanied um Silicon Valley for many many years in the tech boom was really followed by an skepticism in many societies Western societies but I would say globally um around some of the dark sides some of the downsides um of particularly social media and and and and the platforms which led to the techlash if you then go on and say okay the global pandemic um of course in some way strengthened um the global platforms but made as aware of their power even more so and led to even more urgency to create a regulatory Frameworks in a global kind of way and where are we now I think we are now at the same time uh experiencing an economic downturn um uh also of the tech industry um a lot of jobs have been uh shed um by these Global platforms um and at the same time maybe you know this is just a cyclical uh element um many um companies now are banking on generative EI as the next new big thing that which kind of reshape the tech industry uh but therefore of course also reshape um Society reshape um our Democratic institutions and therefore this absolute need uh for dialogue between the private sector and governments so um very very quickly digital humanism as the conceptual basis is Tech diplomacy as um the uh new uh Tool uh in international relations I'm just asking maybe this um can uh you know in the future lead to this idea of planetary diplomacy meaning um uh a diplomacy that uh is seen as a useful a tool for some of the big planetary challenges which cannot be solved by nation states alone as a new conceptual uh kind of basic is rather than mere digital humanism plan the planetary um uh you know in terms of um uh the digital uh challenges uh that uh the planet faces but of course also the the the the the challenges faced by climate change um the the the challenges faced um by Max Mass species Extinction pollution um and an increasing ideological polarization um and geopolitical Division and therefore maybe planetary diplomacy um could be a useful uh tool for the future and diplomats therefore need to be preparing for that this is at least um one of the things that the late French philosopher buo lur has has has said that we will uh need diplomacy um uh even more so than we need it now uh in order to settle in order to reach solutions for the upcoming planet um struggles and divisions uh another challenge to take diplomacy I think comes from ourselves we we in our uh as the tech diplomacy Network and you see on top here the logo of our of our Network we kind of say um we are just at the moment um talking about tech diplomacy in these terms but we truly think that the the developments that we're describing and to which we want to find um conceptual answers are so deep that in the future um all diplomacy will be Tech diplomacy and therefore the tech kind of will be um redundant um I already said that the the um institution the informal forms of collaboration between a tech diplomats um where the freedom online Coalition which we as open Austria initiated another initiative that open Austria um spearheaded um a few years ago was the playground initiative where like-minded countri shared best practices and those two I think paved the way to the tech diplomacy network uh which uh we found it in February 2023 so that not that all uh not that long ago uh and we basically put in one line as our Tech lag that we want to connect technology uh with the world it's kind of there's an kind of ironic t in it because of course technology technology companies usually claim that it is them who connect the world together through digital platforms through the digital infrastructure but we are kind of saying okay what we are trying to do is connecting technology to which in some um aspects has also been perceived um and can be seen as a bubble and we are connecting the world of technology um with the rest of the world so that we have three goals in the tech diplomacy netork we want to provide conceptual Clarity what tech diplomacy really is as a practice it exists but what is it conceptually want to create a community and we want to facilitate collaboration collaboration already happening we want to facilitate it among uh the countries uh we have as our mission uh that we want to Foster collaboration and dialogue between the Diplomatic uh Community civil society and the tech industry in Silicon Valley and Beyond and I'm saying Beyond because uh we are now planning to expand to other hubs uh the network organizes events workshops and provides a resource for diplomats looking to navigate The Complex in rapidly changing world of technology the events we did since uh February we had um we have a big collaboration with the world economic Forum organized a huge conference on generative AI um which with the title agency for AI some of the debates that have been ongoing on whether an international agency that regulates um uh artificial intelligence necessary and if yes how to conduct it um was co-organized by the tech diplomacy Network other events um as well most recently in the city of San Jose uh with the mayor of San Jose we we basically talked also um about uh Silicon Valley and how it needs to focus on uh some of the new technologies that will be crucial in the future mainly uh climate change and sustainability uh as well um as the semiconduct industry very important to the city of San Jose uh and we kind of had a dialogue with private sector representatives there the network aims to become a hub for the Diplomatic Community to exchange ideas and shares uh best practices but we also want to address uh the digital Gap that has been identified by the United Nations um as the one excluding factor for many countries particularly in the global South um that do not have the capacity to engage uh on these new uh uh technology challenges and therefore we as Network see it also as our mission to engage with countries uh provide strategic advice capacity building and training together with our partners we have um initiated an online course on Tech diplomacy together with the Diplo foundation in Geneva um as well um as concrete strategic advice uh in an informal way with a number of countries that have come to us and has asked how does one engage with the private sector and how does one establish a mission of tech diplomacy in the Silicon Valley in Silicon Valley or Beyond uh we think that we will promote International collaboration and understanding in an interconnected world and our main Partners so far are on a conceptual level The beun Institute in Los Angeles the world economic Forum center of the fourth Industrial Revolution can have very very close collaboration particularly when it comes to um Global um regulatory Frameworks the Diplo Foundation um in Geneva and the Bay Area Economic Council a basically industry representation uh of Silicon Valley with whom we work very very closely we have a network of experts if you go to our website uh you will see um different uh faces different people some of them diplomats some of them scientist some of them academics some of them thinktime Representatives some of them private sector representative that develop veloped a certain expertise and want to for a certain amount of time share that uh with the wider Community we have a newsletter to which i' um uh encourage you to sign up um on a monthly basis we are on LinkedIn where we have in in a really short time gathered um by now it's I think 1,500 followers uh almost um and we are planning uh in a few weeks at time uh to uh establish a new presence on the East Coast particularly in the multilateral context of the UN Tech diplomacy network is going to expand uh to New York uh in in 2024 we what we want to do is uh also uh collaborate with the academic world uh and which should lead in the first publication uh on Tech diplomacy which we will launch uh in April of 20124 uh we will also reach out uh to other um uh Geographic iCal um regions as well as hubs um around the world we're thinking of establishing a tech diplomacy prize um and in 2025 uh I think what we really would like to do and this is our our big um aim is to become a a truly a global platform uh in uh around the world including in Asia in South America in Africa uh and and really uh provide um a hub uh for our uh Community um if you want to um uh sign up and follow our activities you can do that um by following our LinkedIn page uh or going to our web page and signing up for our newsletter um which we will have as I said on a on a monthly basis at the moment we are based uh in San Francisco where we work with over 24 uh countries that are represented and basically engage in Tech diplomacy but we truly think uh that Tech diplomacy uh is ultimately something that affects every Diplomat um wherever and in what wherever they work and in whatever field they work in the future so this is my um short well not too short presentation on Tech diplomacy and I'm very happy if you have any questions or comments um to discuss them with you thank you very much Martin that was really fascinating um I encourage everybody to think about questions you can put them in the chat or ask them live I would like to ask the first one if I may and that also comes out of the AI Summit that just happened in in uh England outside of London blly um and it sort of follows it's like you you mentioned Zuckerberg's testimony red famous testimony before Congress and what a disaster that was and everything sort of has grappled with the same question since a global governance framework requires that people's understanding is on the same page on the same level and what we have seen is that policy makers don't understand right what what Engineers do what different companies do what different Technologies actually mean and that is the biggest challenge and how do you propose to overcome that right because in in a ways like I mean I understand that you want to bridge different sort of help with that like Workshop right help educate people along the way but but um what's your proposal how can we get to effective governance we don't we don't you're muted yeah sorry about that no I mean this is one of the um I would say defining factors which um originally also led to this kind of ether of silicon valy of self-regulation right I mean governments as well intentioned as they claim to be as soon as they interfere um they either don't understand the technology from from the get-go or they understand it too late and the kind of solutions they come up with um usually don't um capture the newest de development because technology develops so fast uh and I think um there's a lot um to say about this um uh if you if you just think of when when when I started out in Silicon Valley in 2016 there was already talk um about the EU uh attempting to draft uh an for the first time um of a big um country or a big group of countries to draft a legislation on artificial intelligence this the famous EU AI act and we were actually very involved there as a group of European countries um to get a private sector perspective the kind of multi-stakeholder approach to invite the leading uh companies at the time and open eii was one of them you know and say okay if we regulate AI how would we need to regulate it um and it is uh kind of funny that uh when the EU AI Act was almost about to be passed this year then this Genera T VI uh wave happened and everybody said well this this is completely not included and we need to either not pass it or completely um relaunch it so that's the one story I I would add to it that uh I personally was uh often um uh involved in a complaint not so much by the big companies but interestly love by the small and mediumsized companies as sometimes austrians that would then come to us and say you know this regulation coming from the EU claims at targeting the big monopolistic uh digital platforms but as an unintended consequence it's actually just raising the market entry barrier for us the small ones so that was another uh um complaint we often heard about regulations in general um however I I I would say the other side of the story is not only that policy makers um uh have have have kind of um uh U their gain and have um you know also learned a lot I think um there's also um I would say the nature of technological progress also is cyclical so sometimes new technologies take a while and then their application then there's their time for their applications um and uh of of of some groundbreak breaking um new developments and we've we've seen also that governments are actually quite capable capable of regulating new technologies if we just think of um new new technologies that happen in the bio in the biotechnology sphere in the in the medical sphere where we all clearly know that they need to be uh regulated because they provide high value but they also provide high risk um we do trust that government agencies um you know over the while they're not always perfect but we we we've acknowledge there's a consensus in society that high-risk areas um of Technology need to be regulated uh and that governments can provide pretty good Frameworks that are never perfect that need to be updated that need to be there need to be sunset Clauses and so on but there needs to be a regulation I think that's the that's the risk which I personally prefer it's that's the approach which I personally prefer which is really based on the concept of of risk assessment you need to look at where the risks are assess them um and provide uh kind of uh regulatory Frameworks that provide Clarity for the companies therefore International cooperation is important because you cannot from the the point of view of a of a of a company have like a patchwork of different regulations um so therefore International collaboration is important hence Tech diplomacy can be useful there as well um as well as um there needs to be also the flexibility these regulations um have a contemp have a a temporary nature and need to be conly updated that would be my Approach Mak sense um I mean it's really one of the key topics I think we're facing right to manage that kind of um developments but you know if if I have I work a lot with large corporations right and in Innovation architectures and stuff like that and if you talk to people everybody seems to say that Europe is a lagard in kind of innovation because because of uh too much digital regulation gdpr of course being one of the biggest examples and you've got on the other end of the spectrum China you know that does a very different ball game right also then again as the US how do you see that play out you know CU it's really these three I we don't know how the global South eventually will develop but these three you know forces that have very different trajectories when it comes to dealing with AI um and you know Austria being a small player here Europe actually being a small player here yeah yeah I I mean I think you said it out this this is the situation you have um the US and China kind of engaged in this geopolitical competition that's a very broad stroke um picture um that is often painted too broadly um but it is of course we we we do see I mean geopolitical um division and and and sometimes are exactly broad broad stroke uh and of course there people talking is this where we are now heading to uh is this kind of a new Cold War which is going to be defined by technology uh to a large extent um and um and if we think if if we try to understand this new reality through the lens of the Cold War and a polarized World dominated by the US and China where does that leave um that's of course the question in the rest of the world at the EU um I think um level and this is again very very broad stroke um I think in terms of um its values um uh and of course it's also existing alliances probably felds in the big picture very strongly aligned uh to the United States um but yes there are also these two factors um that you mentioned there is um the EU um also has the feeling that um it has not managed to develop um a very strong uh industrial um base for some of these new technologies by itself an ecosystem ofi how do you build that uh on the one hand on the other hand um the EU has managed I don't think it is a small play at all when it comes to um providing regulatory Solutions sometimes they they're even copied by um other parts of the world I would say when it comes to privacy protection um as imperfect as the gdpr is and I would say when you talk to EU officials they tell you we know you know that it's not it's not great uh gdpr particularly creates regulatory burden for smaller and medium-sized companies and and therefore um entrance barriers that's a fact however um uh we also know that it has kind of become something of an international standard I remember uh when GD PR um went into force in 2018 it was a large source of inspiration for what was happening here in California the California consumer and and um Privacy Act um that kind of developed in a different way uses different languages different instruments but they were of course looking um at Europe and what came out of Brussels uh and tried to align itself and gdbr of course also has Clauses that think of how does this piece of legislation interact um with other um uh um International um regulations in in its kind of adequacy uh regulations so I think the EU um is right uh to uh be self-confident and to regulate um I think where the EU needs to um think differently um is how to create its own um ecosystem that can compete I don't think that they are in necessarily uh a a contradiction I think you can have a strong regulatory um re um basis and reality and still be very highly competitive uh and then in the geopolitical uh dimension of your question I think the interesting part is going to be um the non-european uh world what you said the global South but I think countries that are um kind of on the fence that are that are not clearly aligned with the west or clearly aligned with China those are the it's very very interesting to interact with such countries I don't want to name anybody but when when we at the at the net in the net within the network or um as the network um have conversations with such countries the kind of reality they're facing the kind of pressure they are facing to to to pick sides you know to choose are very very interesting and and this is this is happening as we speak that kind of geopolitical um confrontation uh particularly in those countries I would call them on the fence uh that don't want to choose sides and they want to keep their options open yeah pet you want to say something I just wanted to can I quickly just add just a brief comment without discussion and DET with but you know one of the key challenges is that these days competitiveness is driven by ecosystem engagement ecosystems require digital infrastructures that are based on free data sharing and and there's a lot of stuff where you just then become a kind of a Le you have it competitive when it comes to driving because these kind of Technologies are driving so much of grow it's it's just as as a comment right and I didn't want to because you had to hand up yeah thank you um Martin fascinating talk um I have a probably a two-part question um the one is is is is more what I would be interested is in your path because I remember your personal path and your role here because I remember you you know discuss in in La that you refer to yourself as as a former Diplomat that you're not that when you you you you used to be basically you know representative of of Austria but now you transitioned into into this new role so so so I would like to learn a little bit about your path there what uh you know how how how you made that choice and and what your role is in the second part of that is actually probably also gets a little bit to yulia's question at least on the on the tangent is that in networks and I've seen that in asina you know you have you know who are who is part of networks right I I could see in a tech diplomacy Network for example that you have different stakeholders as part of your network so you can have governments or your companies you know scientists artists uh um you know some of them come with their own mission if you're representative of Austria in a network then you have a certain you know mission that you have to um you know represent there how do you how do you how do you bring these different voices together um uh you know to make sure that that it is not tipping in One Direction that you're not not taken hostage by by by very strong you know Advocates of of of of of a certain element to um to to ensure that you're following your overall mission well well yeah that's that those are all really really great questions and I I'm also now reading Julia's question which I will also try to integrate when it comes to my personal path um I I I I've been for for kind of many decades um an Austrian career Diplomat and I took a leave of absence from the Austrian foreign Ministry um what we call k um after I left open Austria um uh with with the intention to um use um the the kind of Freedom you know that I'm now not exactly working for the government um to explore the kind of uh questions uh I encountered in my practical work um and to think think them through in a kind of deeper uh and Freer wake and also kind of think also from different perspectives not only look at the Austrian perspective or even the European perspective um and that has been very very rewarding for me I think um in general that Tech diplomacy is rewarding for everybody I think uh particularly also for the colleagues who are Tech diplomats working for governments because it is not yet defined because it is a practice that is um looking for for its um kind of definitions for its um protocols for its um ways and practices because uh that that's actually a very privileged position where you on the one hand of course you always represent your country's interest but when you are witnessing that those interests are in flux and that they need to be defined um this is a a really very fascinating and very rewarding uh moment um so I think from a from a p personal point of view from a career point of view I think it is great and it is very very rewarding because it allows you to be part of a conversation that truly shapes um um an entire field uh from the country's point of view the other side of it is of course it it it also means since the things are not so defined um it also means uh that um uh it also points to the actual challenges that these countries all that that the countries face um a bureaucracy wants to um you know have things defined have have have have have kind of very clear objectives which then the bureaucracy implements um and there I think every country and that includes Austria are still are facing the the challenge how do you coordinate yourself within a a a Ministry within a country within the different levels of governance how do you coordinate that with the stakeholders um that are the the industry players and I don't think that there is a a a perfect model like that because also these these the whole situation as we said are changing constantly and are changing very very fast but what I liked about the Austrian approach was that it was kind of almost bottom up and kind of very flexible and very small rather than you know working for 10 years on a big big strategy that that then had to be implemented at all costs um so government if they're agile if they kind of adopt a kind of bottom up agile um approach and I think open Austria was there for an interesting and successful models which other countries looked at um is the way to go question of how do you uh maybe uh also how do you include the the the the stakeholders that I haven't touched because we talked about the private sector we talked about the governments what about Civil Society um I think uh first of all Civil Society um provides very very interesting additional challenges and aspects about it if you think of the whole uh debate surrounding web 3 and decentralized governance and the kind of various initiatives that are also thinking um and and uh about how how one can kind of conduct a decentralized uh form of diplomacy citizen diplomacy um um very very interesting um initiatives um that are also in touch with them I'm advising one of them the people's Accord that really try to they formed the da and they trying to um uh create kind of projects where the diplomats are the citizens and they they kind of decide on whether to pursue a project or not in a kind of decentralized way when it comes to artists um to to Julia's point which is is this other passion I have I think they need to be included um because um because the kind of questions that uh new technologies bring bring up are are are often very much deeper than bureaucrats or or or can handle um and therefore we really need the humanities the scientists but also the artists uh because they sometimes um bring up new new ways of thinking new new approaches um that that that that kind of help us um keep Humane and um uh ultimately um I would say um U are absolutely NE necessary for the future of humankind um I think from a purely diplomatic um perspective there's also an additional pragmatic advantage to engage with artists uh and that is that it's not usually not a very contentious field you can you know we you can well you have when you have private sector and government Representatives engage in a dialogue the danger is that the positions are entrenched or that people just you know exchange banalities but via the Arts which is traditionally a field of experimentation thinking out of the box and kind of not outcomes not outcome open it's not defined um I think uh that that is actually a very useful tool and I I always try to promote that uh even when it comes to to the field of of diplomacy Martin like you're right I always thought about the nonpartisan nature of Art but also the the imagination right there like here the different perspective you you addressed is like that are necessary to imagine a possible consequence outcome impact all of this that's why I thought it's like science fiction authors should always be part of any discussion in any table uh we have one more question and that is that concerns itself with self-regulation what's the what has been the problem really in your mind with self-regulation of the industry itself yeah I mean the pro the problem with self-regulation there many problems with self-regulations um and and there are also some advantages with self-regulation self-regulation has the advantage that the people that come up with self-regulations are the ones closest to the technology they've invented it they've developed it that's the advantage of it the disadvantage of it is that of course um a company these are banalities but they are very true and impactful obviously does not have the interest of the whole of society in its mind whatever it claims but has its own self-interest and its own Baseline and business model in mind and and so it should be it has to it has therefore kind of Regulation it gives itself um is is a self-interested one uh so that's one of the problems interestingly enough self-regulation however um is ALS has also been um criticized from companies themselves particular whether this is because of competition so some companies would like to have government regulation in order to have a kind of fairness uh in order to break up monopolies to create a Level Playing Field for all players uh and then there's another reason why self-regulation has come under attack even by the big monopolistic um uh uh platforms because if you self-regulate you are kind of also responsible if you basically as a company need to Define what a harm is then you might be you know blamed uh whereas if you kind of Can Shed that responsibility to the government uh you can kind of uh also avoid uh the the being blamed uh for for for the for so there is also that element which we shouldn't forget that um companies also don't really like to when when they understood um particularly the social media spere what kind of impact their technology had on institutions Society de democracies I think there was there was actually a a genuine interest um of of the platforms not to to have that kind of responsibility but to rather transfer that uh to governments and these all these factors uh together um have made have not made self-regulation redundant but have I think led to a time which we're living where um there's a general consensus that regulation is necessary question is is it the right regulation do we have any more questions anybody else my last question is like do you find the tech companies to be willing participants in your efforts in your work I think that the let and let me expand that how about the scientists um the I I would say the tech uh companies um are interested in participating um in in questions about reg regulation um because that's serious it affects the business line and they want to be part of that conversation for sure um are they always interested in engaging with diplomats depending on whether this is Meaningful for the companies or whether this is just an exchange of niceties and and and you know then then they're not interested so that's that's one of the challenges there's also a challenge within the internal structures of companies whether they themselves have the capacity to engage um with company with governments in this kind of diplomacy kind of way without this just being a pure marketing or or PR kind of exercise so also tech companies need to create capacity and because they're different depart they're also Bure bureaucracies they have a trust in safety department a government relations department a PR department a marketing a product development so who who who who in the tech who in the tech company is interested and then there's also these legal liabilities that makes often tech company Representatives be much more formal and robotic in their in their conversations because they're so scared that they say something um that that might be held against them whereas government representatives are often Freer to talk so there's that so it there is there's a lot of um uh structural uh challenges that also tech companies need to uh overcome come when it comes to science I think um science um is is is of course there there's always been this there's also a long long tradition um of science diplomacy um and and uh I would say science um and scientists when it comes to the Natural scientists when it comes to the humanities are obviously um the the necessary part Partners in terms of understanding the technology in terms of communicating the tech technology um in terms of being ultimately dipl diplom engaged in diplomacy itself I think that the presumptions of of science diplomacy that scientists often can talk on the basis of science science and this is happening for example in the case of us and the US and China you know the AI scientists they talk to each other um uh I think this that science plays an absolute crucial role in this um in this uh in in the international uh system um uh and Tech diplomacy anything else anybody but this was fascinating this was really really good so thank you very much we'll meet again like and see how this all evolves but thank you for your time it was really wonderful to have you and everybody thank you for joining us today um and we'll see you soon thank thank you so much everybody for coming thanks

2023-11-21 07:13

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