How IoT Impacts Commercial Real Estate | Disruptive Technologies' Erik Fossum Færevaag | E190

you are listening to the iot for all media network hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the iot for all podcasts the number one destination resource publication for the internet of things i'm your host ryan chacon and on today's episode we have eric farawag the founder of disruptive technologies super fascinating company this is a great conversation for those of you may be unfamiliar with disruptive technologies they build the world's smallest wireless sensor and sensors for commercial real estate um it's actually very fascinating the stuff that they have and the tech that they've developed so uh definitely go check them out after you listen to this in this conversation we talk about the future of iot and its use within corporate owned real estate we talk about the pandemic and how that's kind of influenced this market general challenges associated with this industry um and where the world is kind of going when it comes to measurements data collection and kind of the phases that we've gone through everything from the computer phase to the internet to the cloud into now the physical world with this data that iot is all is kind of enabling us to now gather off these physical devices or physical things i should say um so a ton of great value here from eric and i think you'll get a lot of value out of listening to this so hope you enjoy this episode but before we get into it if any of you out there are looking to enter the fast growing and profitable iot market but don't know where to start check out our sponsor leverage leverages iot solutions development platform provides everything you need to create turnkey iot products that you can white label and resell under your own brand to learn more go to iot changes everything dot com that's iot changeseverything.com and without further ado please enjoy this episode of the iot for all podcast welcome eric to the iot fall podcast thanks for being here this week thanks brian nice to meet you it's great to have you um let's kick this off by having you give a quick introduction about yourself to our audience yeah thanks my name is eric farwell i'm the founder of disruptive technologies we're providing the world with the smallest iot sensor there is with 15 years of battery lifetime and the full iot solution behind so that basically there is data available with an api fantastic um one of my favorite things is when we have founders on the show so we get to ask them about the story behind the company the kind of the founding story what opportunity you saw on the market and kind of what was going through your mind when the company was started and grow and having it grow to where it is now so i'd love to hear a little bit more about that if you could share definitely um my background is from physics and semiconductor design so joined a company that did the world's first digital radio transceiver in cmos technology that company was acquired by texas instruments um in 2005 and another company was started by the former ceo named energy micro where we made the lowest pover microcontroller in the world also the first 32-bit microcontroller um and um with the radio part of this that was basically one of the chipsets that made the world wireless with keyless entry for cars it's only playstation um home and alarm systems and so on and this microcontroller um saves a lot of battery and battery operated applications although we don't feel like that today um hopefully with this chip the the battery has been extended on the devices around us what we saw was that um these chips was often used in sensors and building easy and reliable sensors and be able to use the data from them send those sensors in applications um were very challenging so there was a lot of consulting involved on on our customer side and so um the kind of idea was to make it instead of hard to get data from the real world make it extremely simple um to basically solve everything that was needed to get data from the from the real world and into a google document or into a software application that would mean that we would have to make certain choices of of of the technology and also where it was needed to do a lot ourselves because a lot of the the technology needed didn't exist gotcha yeah and um so what's what's it been like since the company's founded up until now like where have been just just internally like what you don't mind sharing is where being the biggest like roadblocks and challenges that maybe you didn't foresee when you started versus that you had to overcome and you know helped you be successful oh thankfully question there's been a lot um the the the sort of spearhead application that we started with was temperature measurements because we wanted to make a small sensors that could fit into all sort of applications and instead of having a cable to a sensor you would basically just have radio communication and the sensor is as small as a postage stamp so you can basically place it everywhere and then in a fridge or in in in in in the freezer or on the motor or wherever and get those data from from from from those devices and um we specify the product to be able to operate from minus 40 to plus 35 degrees so that it should you didn't need to sort of pick a specific sensor for all sort of applications um but it turned out that in order to deliver on this uh we would need to build our own semiconductor because the sensor would be small we need to uh spend like a hundredth of the energy consumption that a normal sensor does so we're running at tens of nano amps instead of tens of milliamps or micrograms um and and then uh we had to make our own radio protocol our own cloud system uh operate the subscription services uh build our own manufacturing line by the machines and the processes in order to manufacture it was established it was a massive project for us the value of this is that that that we are able to have a one-stop solution to get data from from the real world and and i have a lot of examples but building hardware um is is really hard um and when you build a new hardware is it's it's exceptionally hard so just for example the blister that we have on the outside of our sensor um the sort of plastic material there in order to source that we we we found a company in italy and they didn't want to sell us and they said okay but if because we're only selling to medical companies and that's what we do um and you're in the electronics business so um so they didn't want to sell us and also we the minimum order quantity is two tons and i said we don't care we we need this material because that's well specified and it's it's what we are what we wanna uh what we what we have found to be the right material um and obviously we we just need like 0.1 grams or something of this material but still we bought two tons and we had it on a trailer up through europe um couldn't wasn't able to cut it in europe so we shipped it to uk where the material was cut and then the blistering forming machine was in in scotland we had to ship it up there um but that machine was a beast so we can buy that and so we found another machine in denmark where we actually could do this prototyping ourself and then that machine we bought um but the manufacturing line is in germany so then we moved it over there so there's a lot of these kind of examples in order to build the manufacturing part of it um which is exceptionally hard i mean bring and production in scale is just it's just insanely complex um i bet yeah because there's a lot of um investments administration um and iteration cycles because of this and logistics is it takes time um and there's a lot of different feel matter experts and needs to be involved as well yeah that makes total sense yeah i know hardware is very difficult there's a lot of pieces that are are a challenge at times especially when you're trying to innovate on something so unique that has such potential for the space with what you all have going on can you talk a little bit about um kind of the application of your your sensors and kind of where they are most widely used or any use cases you're comfortable sharing just to kind of give the audience um a more complete vision of of how these how the the devices you've created are being used and being interacted with in the real world yeah definitely so what's happened over the last years is that these cloud applications that have sort of been busy building themselves and been fantastic tools to make operations of service companies for example much more efficient because they have these great tools right that you also can use on ipads and start use these um ipads and devices out in the field more and more and find them reliable what's happened is that i've always been talking about that that this is what is going to happen this is our vision this is what is going to happen now that has happened and it's also a lot of interest around getting automatic data from the field and into these application applications it could be as simple as optimizing cleaning routines for example counting how much time a door has been opened and closed right next to clean say just every 50 times that door was open and closed gotcha and it's demand-based cleaning instead of like frequency-based which is just completely different world both when it comes to cost or efficiency and when it comes to quality if if the room is often used then you clean it more often and unless you save cost so it's we see a lot of these type of applications um then it's then it's uh that sort of connects with that whole space of uh room occupancy to detective or in the room our sensors can be placed under a desk and then basically you can detect if if there is a people a person or not by the temperature uh reddit for from the body um and and very reliable uh also we have um detectors that you can put in the ceiling to detect if there's people in the room and and obviously in in the real estate commercial real estate space there's a lot of different use cases around that we also have air quality sensors and and relative humidity and ambient temperature which is the the biggest um too hot to call sort of complaint um issue out there for facility management so um so that that's kind of um a big part of it then we also have like property damage protection which is yeah water leakage for example you can place a sensor at the drain and see if and get the uh a warning if there's water there um there you basically just um uh get that single data point is it water or is it not at that point um and then a lot of i mean related use cases to this sure some concrete um concrete uh use cases that we we're doing with with partners because we we are basically a telco to provide data for these software applications so say for example that you want to optimize your building operations uh reduce energy consumption and you want to uh make a um more healthy and productive space that's kind of the goal from any of these um these um yeah is applications that are focusing on on on delivering um a product one with nbio where they are building an end-to-end solution uh to digitally connect and monitor and control commercial buildings um and it's it's actually uh incredibly uh efficient if you start to to the the correct data and are able to do corrections and optimization based on that they have a use case published with more than 30 percent in in monthly electricity uh almost 50 in manual labor costs and minus 30 on co2 emissions um and it's it's kind of amazing what data can do with analytics on top sure when when this is sort of um [Music] placed into the the the operational routines of the service companies and then also we have we also see that um like more to the more exotic use cases as um in the royal opera house there is golden leaves in the ceiling which is very sensitive to heat and to humidity um but measuring temperature at this ceiling level is is tricky and also it depends on a lot of environmental factors so what they are doing there is they have i think 250 sensors in that environment and then making sure that that the temperature and humidity is that the right level and it can take proactive actions instead of instead of needing to do this manually uh and and and that you're outside these boundaries that are defined yeah um something you mentioned you're talking about the data and kind of the ability to kind of for us to collect it in a lot of different situations here and i'd be here it's just to get your opinion on kind of the evolution of that and what i mean by that is um you know we've gone we've come a long way in our ability to collect data where we collect it from how we collect it what we do with it and so forth um from your experience where have you kind of seen the i guess where are we going in a sense of how we measure and collect data from you know the computer age to the internet to now what does that kind of look like in your mind and how do you kind of think about that yeah thanks thanks again for the question is very interesting i think what sort of have have happened is that in the 80s we have the piece had the pcs discripes and and keyboards sure but the internet came and we sort of had access to them to the world of written information or um on the web and and were able obviously to send email um so these devices were connected um and and what happened along this this this line was that um we got cloud solutions uh and they in the beginning they were as mentioned busy building themselves but all the data entered there was by hand or to be honestly by two thumbs out in the field when i when the iphone came and right and then this move to try to integrate more of the data outside and we sort of have this had this wave of api api and connections between different cloud services um the next step now is to integrate with basically the physical world the problem in the physical world is that this data doesn't sort of exist digitally it just doesn't exist um in in larger commercial real estate there is bms systems uh building management systems that are basically computers that collect data from the building and are able to control the building as as optimal as possible and integration with these systems have happened but the problem in with this bms system is that they were most of them were built 10 years ago 20 years 30 years ago and they only have sort of the the specific some specific data and now they request to have co2 information occupancy data more sort of environmental data that that needs to be added so um so that's where we come in and basically fill out the gaps in in data gotcha and one of the um i was thinking about this when you're talking earlier about the use cases and you talked a good a bit about the corporate owned real estate market which is a market we don't talk too much about we talk about smart buildings and things like that but not not specifically um um the market we're you're mentioning and i wanted to get a sense of how you see the use cases potentially evolving in that space the future of that space just kind of like high level how the internet of things is really influencing that space and i and the reason i ask is because you know we just went through the pandemic we're kind of coming out of it now and i know there are a lot of companies who have shifted their focus from where to kind of devote their resources to and a lot have pushed it towards the iot side in buildings and healthcare a number of other spaces to have those use cases rise to the top because of the pandemic and i'm curious from your point of view where you kind of see the future of of iot in that corporate uh own real estate market as and then at the same time have you kind of seen a shift anywhere due to the pandemic as far as demand for certain use cases concrete answer to if we're seeing a shift definitely it's kind of before the pandemic a lot of what we were talking about was kind of more on the vision visionary level right um then i think it definitely has accelerated the digital transformation um and you see that obviously with with just video meetings it's all over um start on time um and everyone seems to adapt to that that way of communicating and and what that has also done to many businesses is that they they sort of uh trust more digital solutions they trust more that clouds are stable they trust internet and so for us that are delivering data over the internet that's what we do we don't have any other uh options right right right they start to trust that this is this is how it how it works um so i think there's basically two things that i would like to underline when it comes to maybe focus on on commercial real estate incorporated and that is um especially in the corporate side those that own buildings themselves uh like like the big fortune 500 companies and so on um [Music] workplace health and well-being is something that they put more effort into that that they want to that they want to make sure that the employers strive and are safe when they come back to work and and also want to show it to be honest they want to they want to really make sure that people are happy at work and and that things are uh safe and so there's there's investments going in there and the other part that we see as well is that the energy efficiency and sustainability uh part of this very very often you can save cost and and that that transfers also to sustainability because you basically become it becomes more efficient right and then it's also more sustainable um and uh and you might not use that much energy if it's um if it's the the temperature adjustment or hvac adjustment um but this is kind of the where we have seen a big a big change um and i think just the digitalization in in general has has has changed um when it comes to more commercial uh real estate uh the the re-renting um it's it's it's more about i would say the the dark rooms and the how you operate the buildings because that's that's their responsibility they have the infrastructure and they contract that so for example um instrumenting motors ace track the leakage part of this um that's that's that's more uh a focus there um so but i i i would say on the on the top of the outline i would say that that that iot in the future not only iot but like this this massive digital infrastructure of internet and and the iot um it it's all to to increase efficiency and increase quality of operations and extend lifetime of assets and all of that makes sense when it comes to sustainability as well uh and and obviously they would not maybe beneath that many man hours on on those activities that are measured because that's part of what you but um but also there will be many other opportunities around this place and to deliver that does exist today and where do you kind of see this going just like towards into the future we're talking about sustainability we're talking i mean obviously what you all have going on is is incredibly innovative and has tons of potential use cases that just probably not that that you're already involved in but i'm sure haven't even been thought of yet um when you go long battery life small form factor kind of thing um what is the future kind of look like in your mind as as far as you can take it from just you know the iot in general or more directly related to the hardware side totally up to you but i'm just curious to get your thoughts um it's it's and i i think the efficiency part the quality part and the extending life of assets is is is sort of the goal for the the the yeah the capitalism and and also um and also uh is is is what businesses are sort of striving to to to achieve so um and in order to to be able to deliver on that you you would like to understand what's going on and you do that with measurements and so the world will be more and more measurement driven today there's a lot of um [Music] i would say um guess work out there um but it will be more and more fact-based there will be more and more algorithms behind making the decisions people would need to be involved in the beginning to train those systems to make sure that they do what they should do and they do that in the in the right manner but then this will be more and more um work orders will be triggered by machines and humans will do would execute on those work orders in the beginning but then also there will be automation loops on those work orders right for example adjustment on an hvac that will be within with a connection to the bms system which will then uh correct that loop automatically with our people involved and then later we robotics as well of course um uh but but there's some time to that but we're we're sort of in a broader space we're entering an autonomous world where uh sensors um and uh were sensors uh and and in a broader uh term like cameras and all input devices are basically collecting information then we have an analytics layer that are doing the the the interpretation of these data and then we have a feedback and control loop with an actionable layer as well that actually does this um and the the the goal here is to to observe through the input system and then correct it with the actions and then the world will run more and more autonomous autonomously and that's that's um the most efficient the highest quality operations and the longest asset lifetime you you could potentially have definitely yeah um on the other side of the kind of this conversation we're having um i know earlier i mentioned i asked you about some of the challenges that companies face things you've kind of overcome but as you look at the industry and and kind of that space as a whole where do you see the biggest challenges currently lie and and how do we kind of get past them yeah i think there's a lot of challenges and and we do not solve them all we certainly have our challenges ourselves i mean um one of the biggest challenges for us is is that we um when it comes to go to market um we we sort of need to be part of building the the and and work with our partners to and the service companies to change in order to use data in this way because it isn't there yet on on for all of them for some of them it is and they're operating more and more efficiently um but but but it's it's just started but it started with a with an incredible speed over the last half year compared to how it was earlier um and then um i think um the um yeah um please repeat the question sorry there ryan yeah just just more so along the lines of the challenges that um you're seeing in the space as well as how we can overcome come them and it can be industry kind of use case specific if you like or it could be more just kind of as a whole um kind of what we're looking into yeah space and they go to market and all of this right like the the the companies and their position need to find its its place in the ecosystem and then when it comes to technology there is a lot of challenges um in general um and and it depends on the specific use case and we are not solving everything but but our sensors are good where you need many sensors at the sort of same place um where um where you can you want to have sensors that are placed on objects so you don't need one and it's extremely simple to commission and to pair and all of these things um so it's basically you can install 100 sensors an hour without any pairing or anything um but for like an industrial machine you might need to other type of sensors which which are basically installed on that asset so i think today there's a lot of fragmented solutions or fragmented type of sensors friction is still an issue um for many of the simple use cases we could be in be an answer um but it's still 10 years or 20 years well where there will be tremendous opportunities for our partners and hopefully for us as well absolutely no it's it's very very exciting um things going on i mean there's going to constantly be challenges that we have to overcome figure out ways around um and i think just the challenges have kind of shifted but as those challenge new challenges have come it's usually because we've solved the old ones so um it's a very exciting time i think with iot yeah and so that's that i the sort of next uh level of friction is entering because we have solved all problems and and i a problem that is also very apparent now is sort of all the apis and and the sort of uh cumbersome way of integrating all of these apis and get them to understand each other and so on um there might be some good ideas on that out there which will accelerate this and other companies in the future um just on our previous uh discussion ryan with sound sources as well is kind of apple make it extremely simple to get sound from all sorts of devices around right right the problem that emerges is that it's too simple so suddenly the the from the car and your kids and then your headphones is suddenly starting to work with the microphone and and so there's all these friction points that sort of um because we have taking the taking the world a step forward we also meet the next barrier definitely definitely yeah it's uh we we simplify things to the point where you know we solve problems and then we got to figure out well now how do we solve the problems at that simplicity cost so it's super interesting the interesting thing is that um i think if if someone had seen how we're we're living now um 100 years ago um i mean obviously there would be much to learn um but at the same time it's a very very very frictionless world i mean it's oh yeah we've been extremely we are very very sensitive to friction in every on all the devices around us because it's been so well optimized and so all of these bits and pieces that then suddenly pops up of the noise noise floor uh which is with friction that we have to solve they kind of they're not they're not that severe but still we feel that they they are challenging but but there's also there's companies and most companies even in that regard they're founded on the premise of solving some kind of friction that they experience in their industry and their space and then as they solve them new friction emerges and either they or other companies jump in to solve those uh pieces of parts of friction so um exactly but i think honestly this is the reason why this is now sort of this friction space and we feel uh we feel that that this is evolving but still um but still uh that there is always challenges is that the internet has emerged the cloud services and cloud systems on top of that is is the infrastructure is so available and and easy to deploy at scale so uh the sort of the hard thing now with applications is to build good good application good reliable applications but the infrastructure is all there right and then that iteration loop across companies across the world is going much faster but if you look like 100 years back i think they sort of had some of the same problems but just in in in all the feed matters like for example electricity when electricity came uh 130 years ago then then there were a lot of discussions a lot of innovation because this sort of massive type of infrastructure was emerging um and then it stabilizes now it's almost no innovation uh relatively on on sort of new applications with electricity and and but it for 100 years ago it was sure but not the same thing is happening on the internet with all of these applications that over the next 100 years will sort of um compete and and and and um new problems will emerge that will be solved the next problem and so on before it's stabilized definitely absolutely agree um well this has been a fantastic conversation eric thanks so much for for taking the time i wanted to ask you uh as we wrap up here for our audience out there listening what's the best way for them to kind of follow up with questions stay in touch kind of just stay in the know of everything going on on your end and if there's any new and exciting news coming out that we should be on the lookout for yeah um our web page is always uh updated and also if there is a specific request or anything i'm happy to answer that myself as well so eric with the k at disruptive technologies um i'm happy to forward that to the relevant persons fantastic well eric thanks again for your time this has been a great conversation we're going to be doing um a bunch of new content coming out in the in the coming uh weeks and months so love to have you back have other members of your team involved just to kind of talk more about some hardware areas because that's one series i want to start is around hardware specific conversations and i think you guys have a ton of knowledge to share there so that would be awesome to do and the other one is around solutions and stuff yeah so so we'll have you back thanks again so much for your time and uh look forward to talking again soon thank you thank you bye all right everyone thanks again for watching that episode of the iot fall podcast if you enjoyed the episode please click the thumbs up button subscribe to our channel and be sure to hit the bell notification so you get the latest episodes as soon as they become available other than that thanks again for watching and we'll see you next time

2022-06-04 03:12

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