Global Leadership in the 21st Century, at the Columbia University World Leaders Forum
Let. Me just provide a very brief welcome. I. Thank. You for coming to. This event this evening to. This annual tell, Berg foundation, Global Leaders Forum. We. Really want to acknowledge United. Nations Deputy Secretary General. John. Alias, and former. Deputy. Secretary General. I have. Seen him a little bit in operation, and, I can say I was immediately, impressed. Both. By his, obvious, diplomatic, skills but also by the substance, of what drives him and it's. Really a credit. To him that we have these sustainable. Development, goals which is, an enormous achievement, for. The world I. Also. Want to recognize. Carol. Dweck whom I'll turn this over to in a second, Carol has been the indefatigable. Leader. Of. The. Committee on global thought and. The. Inspiration. Behind, making. This the. Success, that it, is at, Columbia, and to, the Chaka Desai, who, has joined, us. From. The Asia Society a. Number, of years ago and has, played many roles at. The University, not least of which is, working, with Carol and the. Faculty, and the students. In. Creating. This thing we, call the. Committee, on global thought, which. Is not, self. Evident and obvious what, it should be but. They've made it into something truly, quite. Wonderful. So. We have these young leaders. Not the. Usual kinds, of people that we honor at, the end of their life for great achievements, but, something. At the beginning not people, just the promise people, who have and. Are doing things in the world that are deeply, admirable. For. Which we should be incredibly, grateful and we get to listen to them, and honor, them and, the, last thing I would say that, as, I understand the Talbert foundation, and its mission and, the. Beyond. Aleus and the Committee on global thought, we're. All trying to figure out really. What roles, institutions. Can play in the world it's just a great great. Puzzle, because. We all know that the problems, are massive, and we. All know that the traditional, institutions. That. We call upon, to deal with these are hampered. For any number, of reasons, and, so. We're trying to invent, it. Seems to me a new global, system. Of governance, and. Policy. And. Effects at, the same time that were recognizing. These great problems, so. I view, tonight as, one. Of these little moments. When. You find out that there are people who've. Done incredible. Are doing incredible, things sort. Of on their own and, can. Make it into something really. Quite special, and we. Just can't do enough. Of this in the world and and universities. Should be places, not only that honor, individuals. Like this but we've. Both foster, it and do, everything we can to try, to help. Thanks. Very much Carol. I'd. Like to add my welcome to all of you to, the, welcome of president, Bollinger this. Time on behalf of the Committee on global thought. We're. Very happy to, be able to co-sponsor this. Event. With, the world leaders forum and with, of course the Talbert foundation. The. Idea of celebrating, these incredible. Global leaders, who. Do so much good and, also do. So much to inspire the rest of us to try, to do, good. So. We thank them for their global leadership and, I'd also like to thank them on behalf of the Committee on global thought for. Leading to student, workshops, tomorrow. We, organized, them they, are 90, 90, graduate, students from ten schools, across the university, and more. Than 50 undergraduates, from, all four undergraduate, schools. And. These. Two workshops. Sold. Out in two hours we. Had to change the place and we had to turn people away which, i think is a sign of. The. Interest, among, students, in, global. Things and also their. Hopes, to. Follow. In, your, incredible. Footsteps, now. Among these students are 25. Students. In the master's. Program in global thought will come from around the world with. Diverse backgrounds and they, all come equipped with hope. And ambition, and, their. Ambition is to contribute, to making the world a better place, and, in. The undergraduate workshop, you will have the members of our undergraduate, Committee, on global thought and many of their colleagues who are interested, in their work under. President, Bollinger, guidance. Columbia. Has become a truly, global.
University. And you really feel it when you speak to the students and their. Response to your generosity. And leading their workshops is an indication of that and. I also, like. President, Bollinger would, like to thank the shaka Desai who as the vice chair of the Committee on global thought. Brought. The, talbert foundation, here, today she was a juror for this year's Global, Leadership Award, and, she's an invaluable columbia. Person. When. I was reading the Tao burg foundation. Information. I was really struck, by how. Many of the same words, and same. Missions. That. The foundation, has and they share with the CGT or I should say we share with you because I'm sure you were there first. But. It it, was heartwarming to, me to think that, it's. We, all have a similar, idea. The, mission of the CGT when, it was found the committee and global thought was. Founded by president, Bollinger in 2006. And it, it, was his vision which, we are trying still, to implement, and make real and. When I read it in the talbert. Brochure. About, Talbert. Is going to be a, platform. It's going to be a network for, and I quote an, ever-widening. Global. As possible. Conversation. And I thought yes that's. What we're trying to do to the Committee. On global thought reaches, across the university, across, the city and around. The world and. Our. Goal is to. Think. Across, scholarly. Disciplines. Across. National borders, and outside. That box, we all talk about of conventional. Categories, to, better understand. And, also. Improve. The, world in which we now live, if. You want examples are from our current research. Project, called thoughts on a changing, world which. Is I think quite. True. To the tradition, both of the Talbert foundation and of, global Columbia. The. First topic, in the first phase of this research project which is a multi-year, transnational. Project, the, first topic. Is called youth in a changing, world and I think it's worth telling you how that happened, we, chose, the subject as a result, of a. Global, conversation. In ten cities with. Nine. With, panels, in nine of Colombia's global centers and it, turned out that in all ten cities, from.
Beijing, To Rio everyone. Said we, are most concerned about, the, future of youth youth. And technology, youth and work youth, and identity, youth, and civic participation and, so, we crowd sourced, our. Research. Project, we, globally. Came, to that conclusion and now, as we embark on it we are continuing. To do it in a global, conversational. Way acting. As a network in a platform and I hope that, that is in the telomeric, foundation, spirit as well as in that of the Committee on global thought so, I think you can see why the, Committee on global thought is both honored, and grateful to, have, you, here, at Columbia, and to, celebrate these, amazing, global leaders who. Are making every, effort and, succeeding. In doing real. Good and real work in the world. It's. Now my pleasure to introduce. Alan. Soga Stoeger, who is the chairman, of the Tao Berg foundation, and from what I understand the driving, force behind, the present shape of the Leadership Awards. Thank. You Carol for the introduction, Thank You president, Bollinger, this feels like home we may not leave I. Am. Alan stone I am chairman, of the tel Berg foundation. What. I'd like to do in a few minutes is a couple, things first I'd like to tell you, who. The tell Brook foundation, is and what we want to be our. Backstory, starts. About 35 years ago our. Founder, a Swedish, businessman, named Bookman. Was. One of Volvo's, senior. Executives. And boo, was an extraordinary person boo understood, that if you talk to yourself long, enough you, will know nothing, and. He realized, that that's what Swedish, business was doing they, were talking to themselves. They. Were tremendously. Successful but. Boo understood, that could not possibly last, unless. He broadened, out the conversation, so 35 years ago in the, widow town a gorgeous, little town called tel burg which. You pronounce much better than I do by the way which. Is in middle Sweden, boo. Convened. A conversation. 30. People they were all men at that time, 20. Businessmen 10 academics. Experts. In industrial, organization, experts, in Japan experts, and all sorts of things and they started talking. And. That's where Talbert comes from it eventually was institutionalized, after, a fashion and. We're still talking we. Fundamentally, believe, that, if. You convene. The. Right people, in the right place to talk about the right things you're, going to make progress. But. It's important, that they're not the same people they're not the same places there are no borders in, information. Anymore and there can't be any borders in conversation, so we try to do. As. We talk about things like climate change like. Mass migration, the impact of new. Technologies, on society, the growing, conflict between gold globalization. And economic. Nationalism. We, want our conversations. To have. Three. Characteristics. First. And. My colleague. Tom Cummings who you meet in a moment mentioned. This today as we met all day we're. Actually looking for questions, not answers we actually think we're in the business of trying to find better questions, because, most of the questions being asked seem to be the wrong ones. Second. I'm a firm, believer I'm not much in the Bible but I'm a firm believer in Noah's Ark what. You want in a good conversation. Is two of lots of different kinds of things so, if you want to talk about unemployment, don't. Bring 30 economists, I'll, bring two economists and two. Artists and a, couple of poets it's. That mix that creates. Great. Conversation. We. Had an example a couple years ago we convened, a conversation. At CERN outside. Geneva at the Large Hadron Collider and. Was, two days talking about evolution and it, was evolution, of the universe of the planet, of social, organizations, of mankind, and at. The end of it a Nobel, physicist, comes up to me and he says as they always do at the end of these meetings best. Meeting I've ever been at now. If you're the host you're not supposed to say why I said. Why and, he said I, go. To I'm an academic what, I do is go to conferences, for a living I give. Papers, but. It and, I'm the expert but. At this conference. I've been at first workshop, I've done it that I could be stupid I said, what does that mean I could ask questions I wasn't, just answering, questions I wasn't, just telling people my theories, I was talking to artists, about evolution, I was talking to economists, about mankind, so. We believe in the sort of Noah's Ark of, conversations. Thirdly, as I said we're borderless we believe in pitching our tent, wherever. It makes most sense so if you want to understand migration, go to lesbos Greece which we did two years ago and have the conversation, there you.
Want To understand, climate change go up in the ice sheet in northern Greenland spend, some time with with the scientists, drilling ice core you'll have a better idea, if. You want to understand, the impact of, technology. And, evolving. Technology, on science go. Up to Kendall Square and. Talk to great scientists, go. To the Large Hadron Collider and. In, the context, of great science. You're gonna learn something and. Frankly. That's why we're here today if, you want to have a conversation about, global leadership where else should you go except, to Columbia, and to the Committee on global thought so, that's why we're here and thank, you very much for hosting us. Tonight. Our program, has two anchor points and of course they're going to be conversations. Not presentations. We're not really good on presentation. The. First will be a conversation, between. Vishakha. Desai and anyon, Eliason and I'm, sure that I can't, possibly add, anything, to what you already know about for Shaka she, is the real force of nature in this room not me. But, what she has taught us for three years as we work together on this project is what the word global really, means every. Time we wander off in the wrong direction we, get a reminder. It has to be global you have to think globally, you can't let that word disappear, or that concept disappear, thank, you for that. Jana, liason, who, most, of you probably don't know is simply, one of the most successful and, most committed international. Diplomats. Of our era. He. Has a long resume he. Was most recently the deputy secretary-general of the United Nations, before, that he had been the president, of the UN General Assembly he, had been foreign minister of Sweden he'd been ambassador, and with, I don't know what hat you were wearing when you did that but he negotiated. In. The iran-iraq war he, negotiated in the Balkans he negotiated. Throughout African. Conflict, situations. And. Perhaps most, importantly. And it's something I've learned from you yan this. Is a dark world it's a world where lots of things are going wrong and I once asked John how do you get up every day and he. Says because, I have to because. Somebody's, got to get up every day you've got to do it so, he taught me about optimism and that a great leader has to be optimistic, has.
To Have values, has, to be courageous and has, to get up every morning. So. Vishakha, and Yan are going to talk a bit about the world a, world. Is. Global, but doesn't seem to want to stay global, and, that balance between, what. We know has to be and and what it seems to want to be the. Second part of our program will. Also, be a conversation. Among. This year's Talbert global leaders tonight. You'll meet four. People plus, my colleague, Roderigo. Rabito, Alonzo, an architect. Co-founder. And executive director, of instituto. LS. Now I have to see based, in Santos Brazil, that. Is dedicated. To participative, leadership community. Mobilization. And, community. Building, Rebecca. Heller the director. And co-founder of, the international refugee assistance. Project. I rap which. Is headquartered in New York and I suspect cell phones around the world and. Operates, globally which. Organizes. Lawyers and law students, to develop and enforce legal. And human rights for refugees, and displaced persons. Fiorenza. Omen Otto the, Frank Doble, professor. Of engineering, and a professor of biomedical engineering, at, Tufts University, who. Has pioneered the, use of silk, as material. Platform for. Advanced technology with application, and photonics. Optoelectronics. And nanotechnology. It's really, cool stuff and. Bright Symons, technology. Innovator development. Activist and social, entrepreneur, based in Ghana whose. Work challenges. The received, wisdom about. Social, and economic development strategies, and. Programs, in Africa but but well beyond Africa, my. Colleague on the TEL berg bort Tom Cummings, will. Explore, with these leaders how they are working to, affect dramatic, positive, change in the complicated world that, yawn and vishakha are going to describe. Before. We get to these conversations I, want. To introduce what. We're trying to do in the leadership space. Conventional. Wisdom today is that leadership. Is in short supply. We. Believe that conventional. Wisdom is wrong we. May be more than a bit short particularly, this country at this moment in. Political, leadership but. We, firmly believe that there are many individuals with, vision with, talent, courage, and values in many spaces in many places who. Are hard at work to change the world for the better, the, Tobruk foundation, is committed to finding these leaders honoring. Them building, a network among, them and in, doing so encouraging. Others to follow. Their examples, the. Four leaders that, were going to listen, to an honor tonight were, selected, by an international, jury of nine women, and men from around the world including, vishakha, they. Reviewed more than 200, nominations from. 50 countries and, these were business, with people they were political. Leaders they, were social. Activists, entrepreneurs, religious, leaders and. All of those nominations. Were, done. By ordinary, people the. Way our process. Is entirely online all, of you should nominate. People next, year the only people on the planet earth that cannot, nominate are the, nine or ten judges, because. We don't want conflicts. The. Leaders, you're. Going to meet I think. After, you listen to them for a little bit you. Will agree that the jury got, it right once again I think we're we've, done this three years in a row we're three and oh and and. I think that's good start and now. It is my honor and. An extraordinary privilege to. Introduce two dear friends, Vishakha Desai and Jana Eisen, please. I. Think. We, have been together all. Day can, you hear me alright. Thing, is. It's. On my back. Alright. That's, better right. It's. Too, delicate. We've, been talking all day and, Yanis, promised with that, no. I. Think. I need one of you guys. Alright. Just hold it is. That okay much. Better thank. You, that, it can't be at the interview, so. He wants a real conversation but, I'm gonna start with the question anyway as. Alan. Mentioned, you've. You. Have so. Many different experiences, in. Your, 40, plus year of amazing. Career I could. Ask you about your wedding I'm not going to do that I could. Ask you about all the different conflicts, you have resolved, we're, not gonna do that either but. To really, kind of get at this question of, the. Global, condition. That. We are in today you have. Seen everything. And. At the same time we recognize that. Today. Even, the word global, seems.
To Be under, attack. Attacks. From many different forces. Whether. It's so-called. Nationalism. Populism. Ethnic. Strife. How. Do you, think about that. Notion, of, the word global under attack and at. The same time trying. To find a new path that. Brings, you because you recommitted, globalist. Yeah, and to find a new path what is that new-path, well. Let. Me start with the Allens. Recognition. Of me as an optimist, I. Forced. Myself to. Be an optimist, but I think, I want to qualify it and say that in. Today's world I'm a worried, optimist, and. Having. Served in the United Nations for, many, years in the last five years I. Think. The United Nations, is. A reflection, of two things. It's. A mirror, of the world as it is, and. It's not a pretty place, but. It's also a mirror of the world as it should be, and. I don't think we should ever forget that that, we. Have the direction. Given in the UN Charter and, by the values that tell, my stands for and you at your university, stand for, and. That, we must never give up it's so. Crucial not. Least my you young people to. Realize that nobody, can do everything, but. That everything, everybody. Can do something and, we. Have different roles I think. In. Today's world with the challenges, that we have ahead of us. We. Need to see. That there, is a I. Think. A great need to work. Across. Borders, yes. These things are pretty tricky to. Work across borders. Both. In terms of in, my area and the Arab nations peace and security development Human, Rights there's. No peace without development, no development, without. Peace. And there is none of the above without respect, to human rights but. Also and. I thank, president, Bolger, for that that. The. Universities. And all other actors, the private sector civil society. You. And me, and all of us need to be mobilizing. Now to. Stand, up for these common, values that we can only do it if we mobilize, horizontally. There is too, much far too much of vertical, organization, far. Too much of silos, of. Course we have to be extremely good in our, vertical, but when we want to solve problems in the neighbor we better go horizontal, and by. That I don't mean go to sleep by the way. So. I. Think. That the. Average. IQ okay there is a need, to. Make. Sure that there is no immediate, contradiction. Between, the. Global, the. National, and the local and, I think we need a more passionate story. About. The global. Dimension, I, usually. Say about. Passion, by the way that without. Passion nothing. Happens in life, but. I also think that without compassion. The. Wrong things happen, and, we need to have a more driving. Compassionate. Story. Narrative. About. Is. One, of the issues that you have talked about and that is that, when we use the word global, it. Feels, very abstracted. It, feels, as my husband says global schmoeville. You know I. It, doesn't really jump. Out it's. A very American, thing what can I tell you but, that it. Varies, when we think about religion when. We think about ethnic. Strife when, we think about even. Nationalism. Populism, as is used today not. Always, how it's used there's, certain emotions. That's attached to it you. Have. Lived. That. Idea, of global and you're passionate about it so, how do we bring that. Notion, of passion. And make. It less abstracted. To. People so they feel like they can see themselves in it and you, began very. Early with this well. First of all I think we shouldn't have a contradiction. Between. National. And international. In, fact I said, at an early discussions, they I'm very patriotic, about my own country. And. I don't want, people. On there particularly, the right-wing in Europe. In my country to steal my pride, in my own country I'm, I'm a true patriot but. I'm also an internationalist, and one. Should understand, that in. Fact the, word identity, if you ask yourself how often do you use the word identity. You. Probably use that word very often but have how often do you use, it in terms of plural, I think. We should accept that identity, this identity. Is much better in plural than. In singular I'm, a sweet I'm European I'm world citizen, either you can go all, across the field and I, think that sense of of having, a broader view. That you don't, see a contradiction between what you do at home and, what you do internationally.
It's, Something we have, to achieve. And. Where. Did it begin for you how did you. Know. You want to go back to, -. We, are both American field service students. 17. Years old we went to the, United States he. Was I, was. I, was a party, guy I was. I was we, went on a bus tour around the state said and there. Were two girls quarreling. In front of me I was in the back seat to get some sleep after the party from the night before you know age 18, and, they. Spoke so much there was a Greek girl and a Turkish, girl they quarreled about this about Cyprus and. I, had to listen to it like you have to listen to mobile. Phone conversations. On their train on the bus and. At the end I got, tired of this 20 minutes, quarrel. Between the truth I leaned over to them and said well, now listen to you for so long but I, think I have a solution for you for Cyprus so. I suggested. That the Turkish minority, would have more. Of minority, rights be assured rights in the parliament and maybe a name government and that's how you could probably solve this otherwise that would be a great separate majority, running. The country forever and. They looked at me said oh oh, you. Should work at the United Nations. But we don't have too much time I think we, were promised, we're. Asked you the optimist side I mean I worry the worries are so you yeah, I don't need to bother I spent a lot of time working, on the nuclear, risks involved. In the. Korean situation I'm chair of the Stockholm, International Peace Research Research. Institute, we, have of course the facts, that conflicts, now turn out even more difficult than ever before, because they easily turn into proxy, wars Syria, we, have the climate change which is an extension issue which we must take seriously the word responsibility, is perhaps the most important, word for that, so you can go along and also this division of us and and them and and. The. Hesitation. About everybody's, equal worth all. This is very worrying but hope. Just. Forwards for hope from, me and you may have your. View on this, one. The, biggest hope is women. Women's. Full mastery and empowerment, will, come, soon, it is has to come it will come is going to be the greatest, positive, news, in the world for, the first time in history this, will happen and if, you, particularly, women feel that it's going slowly and people, start to bubble eyes against, it that's a sign that it's getting serious and the, big thing is for this to become not, only a question of emancipation, of women but. Emancipation. Of man men. And women together it's gonna be the biggest improvement. Positively. In the world secondly. Young people you here I think. We should not only think we in my generation about. What we can do for use which we should do but. We should also think what we can do with youth with. Youth and we. Are in a hurry to get you in on, the decision-making processes, the deliberations. In all fora, and I. Think there is a tremendous force in that thirdly. Knowledge. Universities. Scientific. Community, if we are to I'm. Very glad you mentioned the sustainable, development goals we if. We if these are to become a reality, before. 2030. We, need to really, get the scientific, community, on board for health climate. Transport, energy, everything and the last thing that I really want to bring out is International, Cooperation the most, important, word in the world today is together. With. The side of responsibility. Together. And above. All I think we in today's world have a huge deficit, of dialogue. And diplomacy. Russians. And Soviet. Diplomats are called back reducing. Their presence, State Department evidently, is not fully. Fully. Fully. It's. Actually 30 percent reduction, we. Have very, little dialogue across, lines. Like North, Korea and the, United States goes all with the same this style of deficit, is extremely, dangerous and I think with, you here, think, about the enormous power in preventive, diplomacy in.
A, Creative diplomacy. So these are the four hope factors, that make. Me in the end. Optimists. Maybe without the restriction. Of worried. It. Seems to me that when you talk about being a worried, optimist. When. You start talking about your optimism, I sense. That the worry kind, of. Recedes. And, you. Get very excited. So if. You, were to think about. New. Kind of leadership as, you I mean you've seen many many leaders and you have to be very diplomatic, when. You were at the UN. What. Characteristics. Have you found in. This new world context. That. You think are particularly. Important. In. The, leader and. What. Are the characteristics, that you think are really, a problem, when. You see it in a leader I. Was. Three, years in the Navy of Sweden, and I had, a situation where. Our ship was in great danger, and I, looked at the bridge, where I was standing after, this storm and I. Looked at the Striped guys there with the who. Were there on the bridge but. The, ones that I had saved us in that situation where. Was the guys, in the machine room with that twos and hurt, by the throne, between, the engines and, I went down to thank them and that has characterized at. Least my way of working, that. You realize that you have your own role but, you have to work together, with others and give them their responsibility. And. Then I always appreciate, when there. Is a sense of very, great. Degree or openness, there. Is a story. A fairy fairy, tales with author by the name of HC, andersen he. Has written this fantastic. Fairy, tale about the emperor without clothes, the. Little boy who says that he's naked we. Need to have people who say come, back to some basic issues and honestly. Raised the problems, and by that height and the the, the, dialogue and, then of course I think you should since. You're in you're in these, formative. Years, is to be extremely good in what you're studying, what you're doing but. Also understand. That your life will be so much more interesting and, you will be much more of a problem solver, if you open the doors to others who, see the, problem from different other directions it's, not only a good way to get the solutions, it's also more fun because. When you see it from different angles you, get, a much, greater. Sense of community and the realization. That you have to be a team, in the end to do it so these are some. Of the things that I'm thinking about but then also there. Should be an element of hope. Sports safe fun I want, my staff to bounce, to work this might. Be that's too much too happy but. You know there's that they know that it's gonna be something, that we have together and that, we will solve together and when, I have that sense that they run with the ball I go. Home and as my daughter Anna knows I fall asleep within seconds, she's. A graduate of Khan be aware they and. I, think, the the fact that we. Have the world is such a troubled, place but, we got to make sure that we make it a place. Where we see, challenges throw, them problems. Of parents so. With. This idea of fun, there. Even, forty, years ago for you. The, idea of fun, that, was a little. Later right yeah. I'm. Going to open it up we just have time for a few questions before. We go to the next panel so. If you have an urgent question especially. For yan please. Raise. Your hand identify, and come. To the microphone, you. Can't, be that shy come, on yes. Hi. Understand. You said the, greatest hope is in, women can. You expand on that. What. Do we have to do. What. About say young people right what do you have to do no, but it's. So obvious that the so, obvious that the voices of, women are, not heard in so many contexts, I have mediated in six conflicts. From, Iran Iraq to Darfur. And. No. Never, have I have seen a woman in the, delegation. On the other side so. We have resolution, 1325 in, the UN but it has it's, far too slow there but when I have. Been planning. The negotiations, the different situations. I've always made sure that and my delegation are women and that that I'm inviting. Women to the negotiations. And where they come you. Get a much more hands-on. Oriented. To the field to the home to the family, approach. Which, really adds, that. Passion. That you need to bring into the. Negotiations. But, I think generally also it's a tremendously, untapped. Resource, support from the human, dignity which, is not. Respected. I mean, it simply says suppose in the UN Charter and in the university, for Human Rights that, we were born free and equal and we, have to live up to that and and I think it's also a probably, more fun. That. It's gonna be a vitalizing. Force and it is going, to happen but I think it's important that all the men are seeing. That as liberation. Of man, as women.
Only I could, give you many examples how, helpful. It is to, see the perspective, from the women and it, is coming when, I go to Rhonda. More. Women than men in the parliament if I go to West, Africa, as. Many, my African friends knows some over here they, are dominating the trade in. Their countries if you go look, at the number, of presidents, women in Africa, and Asia so over the place Latin America, so. It is coming and it's going to be a great and positive force. Thank. You and. We. Cannot, take any more so just a two more but, brief, questions, yes I, think. You both I, just. Want to know briefly. Organizations. Based in northern Europe and areas. Like Sweden that are not typically. Heterogeneous. Communities, and, also. I wanted to know when you say work. At cost across borders, it feels a little bit generic to me so I wonder if you could give a little bit more in, depth examples, of like what that means in terms of action based. Performances. Thank you well by borders I don't mean only. Geographic. Borders I also mean, borders. Within society. The, different. Horizontal. Combinations. You can have with, the different actors governments. Parliaments by the way very important. Private. Sector universities. Science. World civil. Society but. I, think. The. The. Dynamics, that comes from. From. That border. Crossing, is absolutely, crucial but I think the most important, most urgent, issue to. Handle, in that perspective, is the migration and refugee issues we, have now situation, in the world with 244, million migrants, 65. Million refugees. If. We don't turn, the. Narrative. Into, from. A very negative narrative, in Europe, this. Is seen as a problem Imperial. Not. As a potential. Or possibility. If we don't see this as a historic. Turning. Point where, we need at least to make that. Your narrative, neutral, if not completely, positive because it is a bit, of a challenge for any society, but if we don't see for instance what IMF. And our CD has proven that, it is a great addition. To to. The GMP in most countries to have the migration it's, also for, the demographic, development. Crucial, we would have negative population. Growth, in Western, Europe without, a migration, if you, look at the remittances, from the migrants, you, will see, that the remittances, in value, are three times the. Official, development assistance in, the world so, what that means for the villages sincere Lankan Philippines and so forth is incredibly, important, and lastly, we. All have to ask ourselves now do. We want to go the, direction of diversity. Or. Exclusion. This. Is a crucial situation, which we find ourselves you with you're in the United States in, Europe and that debate. Has. To come, to to in my view to the conclusion, that we, we. Have this irresistible, force of international. Cooperation getting. More, and more serious and, in, my own country I, have. Given, a speech at national day couple. Years. Ago and they asked me to speak pass Sweden in the world, and. They wanted me speak about our commercial the row of Palma count, Bernadotte and, so forth I did so but, then I insisted, to have a second, part I've. Only told half the story Sweden. In the world yes, but. We also have to think that the world is in Sweden a, with. Ideas, with. Products. And with, people and that's, when you have a complete, picture of, this.
Approach. Of you. Know working. Across borders that, you also realize. That the migration issue is actually basically, now, growing Lee an integration. Issue. Last. Question. So. In speaking to your career as a serial, diplomat, what. Characteristic. Of your temperament, do you think has, contributed most, to. You. Being a successful conflict. You know negotiator, or for. You to be successful. That's a great question. First. Of all I have to hide my passion. So. You gotta be controlled and listen but, I I see I want to say to you I want to share with you four reasons, in. Very brief terms for, reasons to fail or, to succeed in negotiations. Mediation. And. If you go very far if you succeed, in life but that's perhaps too presumptuous, first. Of all respect. For the word. The. Word collect, words no five-six, synonyms, sit. At the talks realizing, that you can change the wording, change, the paragraphs, without. Losing the substance, and then, you get it through sustainable, development goals negotiation, was that respect. For the word I would say even love for the word collect. Words I say to my children and grandchildren. Secondly. The. Art of timing, don't. Do things too late, but, equally seriously, don't do it them too early. Analyze. Timing, in anything. You want to achieve when. Is the right time and. Who should be helpful, in the process third. Reason is. Cultural. Sensitivity. One. Time. In Tehran. I made a mistake got. Tired and said oh. Let's. Break up and this was translated to Farsi that I. Was going to leave and it was over so the foreign minister and thus I got very upset and. It said whoa, if. You don't want to negotiate what do you want to do and, then I said something which to begin with was disastrous. But then turned up thought I'd be lucky strike, I want. To go to your famous carpet. Museum when. You really ask me what I want to do so I went that Museum and, afterwards, they pointed to me he's my friend because, they had recognized, this guy from the North Pole practically, was interested, in the way the carpets, the colors. The the, patterns, and how they were done by, their grandparents. Who as child, labor had, done that so, it was just the cultural sensitivity. Which i think is a great, important. Factor and last thing very. Importantly, are now looking back at my life in diplomacy, personal. Relations, that. You. Is still trust i can't. Expect, sympathy from, sitting with syrup machine which I did 28. Hours or together but. Respect. That they know that you're truthful and that, they can, trust the kind of communication, that you have so with, those four four, four, conclusions. About success, or failure maybe that could be answer to your question. Thank. You please, join me in giving a big Angelo. Thank. You now. With, the global leaders video. It's. About pragmatic, driven dreams I think the, the more this context. Of application, of natural resources, becomes. Front-and-center. The better we're going to do and I think it's an awareness that has, to leave the scientific, world. It. Has to go into everyday, conversation. And it has to go. Beyond the imagination, if that wouldn't it be great if the world were all sustainable yes, it would be but you you really do need to have the small little pieces that then build up to this end result. The. Art of architecture. It's. Not for. The architects, to tell people how, they should leave but it's how to to. Understand, people how to listen to people but. In terms of leadership one. Thing it's it's realizing, that. The knowledge, the wisdom and, the power of, those, who. You were leading. The. Leader today really. Needs this openness. To listening to beauty together with people. It. Is for me a like a key a beautiful. For, leadership today is. To understand, the. Richness of, the, reason of the others. It. Seemed obvious to me that if. Millions. Of refugees all, over the world were going through, a really complicated legal system and. That their lives depended, on the outcome and I. Am very delighted to, be here and I want to give a special thanks, to to president, Bollinger and, and take a look who just. Spoke and I. Wanted. To just make sure that if. If, we're here on behalf of the committee on global thought that maybe the Tobruk foundation is here for. The for. The group on global action a little bit so we, find this way that. We, are, working together to create, another, way of not, only thinking about the world but engaging with the world and. For. Me it, really starts, by. Trying to understand. Just. As we, heard, from. Young. Eliason and, vishakha, that. We're. In a world where we're going to have to take into consideration some new ways of doing things that doesn't mean we can't learn from jana liasons, experience, but.
We're. Going to be learning more from the future perhaps than from the past as we go forward the, tobert, leaders, now. The Eliason. Global. Leaders, are. Really a, remarkable, group of people and i want to get them up on the stage very very quickly here, I, think. That what's, characteristic of, me for them is that they're. Not only changing, our. Perspective on. How. We look, at some of the most challenging. Issues that we face as Alan Stoker said but. They're changing, our conception, of. What. We need, to be doing and that that. Difference is settled but important, it's also, interesting. To see that the, selection, of this group of people. Starts. With their significance. In their work I don't, know if you know in in in my life the. World seems to have been divided, over the years from. People either saying oh. Oh. And. When they say oh then, I really know something is happening I really, know that something is shifted and each of these people in their own way. Has broken, through, on, our, conception. Of what. It is that we need to do in different fields, in different perspectives I. Think. It's important, that they all are. Known for. There. Are certain significance. But, our hope is that they become known for their that. They become prominent that, that, through. This work not, only is Allen's toga said they connect with each other, but. They find these, remarkable. Ways to. Really. Develop, a, next, generation way, of. Doing. Something, and I'll describe what they're some things are in a minute that. Transforms. What. How we think what we do where. We go in the world and the, perspectives, that we ourselves will, take now. I know that there are a lot of folks in the in the room who. Are. Graduate. Students right raise your hand if your graduate student this so we know, who you are good and it. Was not too long ago that this group of people were also graduate students so I just want you to know that we. Want to have, you see that. They. We. Still call them young leaders whatever, age they are they're young in spirit as well so, let's start as. Alan. Mentioned all, of them and I we were going to have a film able to see the film at the end I'm. Going to ask each, of them to come up here we're going to be on the panel gonna, have a few minutes of conversation that. I'm going to see people running to the microphones, and asking. Great questions and. Then, we'll we'll, conclude and I'll hand it back to two vishakha so. First. One up and who. Might like to invite and, you. Know in the theater we always applaud before, they speak so I think that's a good thing to do. Rodrigo. Rubidoux. Please. Come. Up and Rodrigo. Rodrigo's. Going to help us understand, why, architects. May. Not be. Looking at the world in the right way but he has a group of architects who have taken a really different tack. Rebecca. Heller. Some. Of you may know Rebecca she's. Traveled. All the way from Brooklyn she. Said I, rap is her organization. And Alan. Has already described, the work that she's doing and, I think we really want to dig into understanding. How in, such a short amount of time, Rebecca, has managed to or Becca as she likes to be called made. A, difference. In a very challenging, political, environment, with a very challenging political topic. Fiorenzo. Or Manito. He. Won't say to you the future is plastics. But. He will say the future is silkworms, and, you'll. Hear why in a moment and bright, simon's. Bright. Himself, is responsible as well for the creation of a couple of institutions, in money and in pedigree, and again, we'll hear more from him I think from. What I've done in interviewing them already in the case of bright-eyed say your parents named you right so. Good. I'm just gonna take a seat here and we'll, get started. So. Are you ready. I've. Asked each of them to consider.
Who. Are they what are they doing, what. Do they know now that, they. Didn't know when they started, so. What do they really know now and, what. Are the questions that they're holding now, as they take. The next, step in what they're doing so. Oh. You. Said you were not ready though then, I'm gonna start with right no this is this is a conversation, right are you ready okay. Go first so, I'm. A social entrepreneur, it's. Kind of a lot of my life in, Ghana and, I. Started, the work that I do currently, for. A position of anga. Not. Many of you may be aware but. Every. Day the. Number of people that die from complications, related. To fake or substandard. Medicines is equivalent, to the number of people in two jumbo, jets. One. Very. Famous, public. Official in Nigeria. Unfortunately. Now dead have. Described, it as the worst form, of terrorism or, known. To the majority of the world so. Think, of it two jumbo jets. Of people. Every. Day died. From complications. Related. To, fake and substandard, medicines and, I thought I was just something that made me fight hungry so that is how I started and we, wanted a solution that could be ubiquitous enough, and the, solution, was to build. A system for, validating, the. Pallet of medicines, using. SMS. Eventually. We, learned that was a much more complicated problem you, know just knowing as. A consumer, what, other medicine about it cake is Jenny or not is a great thing but, it doesn't go deep. Enough to, approach the problem and the difference between our social entrepreneurs, and commercial. Interpreters, is that we do want to end the problem we, don't want a paycheck forever, solving the same problem over and over again so we decided to do what we do now which is build an internet of trust, and. To build an internet of trust means that we connect all the, stakeholders within. The supply chain from. Manufactory regulators, etc, using, different technologies, and also to expand horizontally, beyond medicines, into. Cosmetics. Automotive. And the rest the, one thing that. We. Found, and that. Was in to appearance to begin with I was. Summarized it using a quote by Carl, Sagan the famous Carl Sagan who. Said if you want to build an. Omelet from scratch you. First have to invent the universe, so. We learned that you, know if we really wanted to build a supply chain, founded. On trust then, we have to implement the series of schemes that, connected. Multiple. Actors, together and that is what makes our technology, in a way quite. Different, from the way that technology nowadays is presented to the world and. What. Do you know now that you didn't know when you started that. Technology. Is not merely the. Intervention. It's. Also the philosophy and ideology, that. Makes that intervention. Cause. Less harm and do. Real good so. It goes beyond the actual intervention, to the set of philosophies, and ideologies surrounding. That technology, which gives us his true potential and that is why we are now going. Beyond, simply, providing, technology to consumers, and actually injecting trust into the entire ecosystem. Then. Types of life change between patients. And health. Workers not. To seek to replace health, workers by. The same time people are inherently corrupt their heritage corrupts so, how do we continue, to, prepare. This theory of change that. We need to activate, trust, within, the, ecosystem while. At the same time fight enemies there are comets there are enemies vested, interests that I'll pose to the work we do and some of these people are sworn to protect lives. Thank. You thank, you. Rebecca. Can we all just bounce around here. I'm. Becca I but, you know Who am I I don't. Even I'm, still, trying to figure that out. I. I'm. The co-founder and director of the international refugee assistance project. Which. Believes. That refugees, should have rights and that, they really don't have any now the, global. Framework that we use to, process refugees, has not been updated since 1951. And it's. Wildly, outdated, it doesn't, include people fleeing from conflict, so technically most people fleeing from Syria are not actually, refugees, and thus have no rights and it, doesn't protect anyone fleeing from climate. Change which. I think that mass displacement as a result of climate change, is the major effect, of climate change that we'll all see in our, lifetimes, and we're not prepared for that so we started organizing. Lawyers. And law students, to. Try to fight. Back and. To say how can institutions. Better protect the rights of refugees and, then as lawyers and law students how can oral Forces law students and then as lawyers for most of us who pass the bar exam and, how. Can we enforce, that and.
A. Thing. That I've. Been, thinking about this year it's it's both a thing I've learned and a question that I have I think you know for us we were always like I'm a very, partisan. Person, but, our organization, is a very nonpartisan, organization. Because. We feel that refugee, shouldn't be a political issue unfortunately in, the last few years they've been hyper politicized, both, in the US, and in. Europe. And. I've never really thought of lawyers, as great like movement builders, or. Great activists, I thought our role was more of like a technical, behind-the-scenes. Role and. Then on. January. 27th, when the, travel. Ban slash Muslim being came down from president Trump we put out a call to our network and said everyone should go to the airport, because there's going to be thousands. Of people who. Are midair. Who, when they took off from wherever they were coming from had permission to land in the US and will land as undocumented. Immigrants. Are non immigrants essentially and no one will know knows, what will happen to them and. Thousands, of lawyers all over the country on a very very cold January, day like when two airports and in the end we were able to get 2,100. People released from, airports. That were being turned into black sites. So. I think the takeaway, for me from that was that like you, you. Have a lot of tools in your toolbox and you can use them in really surprising, ways often, in the face of the most adversity. Possible, and the, big question, that I'm wrestling with is like I'm tired. Like. I think everyone. Is tired, and. We're, only and I'm staying this like as an American, and. As someone living in America, or with the effects of America but the question for me is like we're only 11, months in. How. Are, we going to keep this up for. Three more years good let's pick that up in a couple of minutes I. I. Think I think I'll start with the thing the surprises, that that, has that, has changed about, my. Perception. That has changed through the years is that, materials, actually hide an enormous, amount of surprises, I'm. A technologist, by training I used to work with lasers. And now. I, run I run a lab that has. Scientists. From all from, all disciplines, architects. Artists. Olympians. And. We all work around with the inspiration, of taking, nature's. Materials, to build things and, it's, and. So we use silk, and - to, build, plastics. But plastics, that are augmented, so think electronics. That you can eat or, pieces. Of transparent, material that contain a polio vaccine that doesn't need to be refrigerated or, an invisible, edible coating that stores fruit without. Without, having to be refrigerated so, things that actually sort, of bridge the divide between technology. And biology and that have very. Profound very. Profound global implications I. Think, on manufacturing. And on availability, of therapies, and on, availability, of food and that preserve also, our our, food supply chain it's been sort, of a magical journey for, me because it was absolutely. Unexpected, I. Really. Didn't work on silk before I joined, Tufts and, it. Speaks to the importance I guess of communication, with other people and finding like-minded people, that do want to leave, an impact and this this goes to great kudos to my my, dear friend and colleague David Kaplan, who was a tissue engineer that has worked on this material for longer than I have and. And. So. Where. Are we going from here well. And. The question you have but, the question that I have is how. To. Replace plastics, how, to replace plastics, you said that very quietly idea, how. To replace PLAs how to replace flat that's a weird question okay, good. Great. Go rego yes. About. Myself that, I I consider, myself much more a creation, of arrows than the, creator of arrows, so. I see. Myself as a better person especially, because of the people that I have around me and, aloes that, buttes and do the work every day I do part of the work they do most, of the work I would say. And, I. Think my work it's mainly, despite. My education. On in architecture, the. The my, work is mainly trusting. In the human potential to do good things for themselves and to others human, beings so. We work to spread a. Philosophy. Of transformation. That relies on the human, potential for. Cooperation within. Diversity and, more than that the. Potential to build the, sense of community within, diversity and.
Despite. What we watching, on the, news every, day it is working, my, experience, it's working, in in more than 400 communities. In, 49. Countries in, the world so. Since. How far we we got so till. Now and. What. I know, now. That I, maybe I didn't know at the beginning, is. That. It. Is, possible, to transform, the world believe, in into. The world we dream of. They. Believe, in. This and my. Question, is how much time it will take and. How. We take care of those, who are engaged, in this. Mission I would. Say and I would say how. We take care of all of us so, we don't lose hope, before. We get there. Thank. You very good very good so, bright, I'd like you to help Rebecca with her question, of how do you sustain because, you've been in this game for quite some time so how is Rebecca going to sustain over the long term with. Only 11 months into, what looks like a long. So. When. I when, we first started. Like. I said it was a lot of anger and. I was the driver anger was the drive it's. Quite crazy that you walk into a pharmacy to, buy medicine. For your your little child and you. Stand 1/3, chance of. Getting something that could kill the child and so anger was enough to, get it going the, truth though is that anger, is not enough, over. The medium term and you, have to find other values that are important, and it started from first, of all getting off, this. Notion of being the center, you. Know, to. My mind and I, think we discussed this at one point, leadership. Is really about treating other leaders and when. It becomes about other people's, journey towards. The same passion, that you currently feel about the problem you, are able to be more objective to. Stand outside. Looking. In and that, gives you renewed, strength because, as they go through the agenda you've gone through and you see them scale. One. Level after the other it, rejuvenates, your power your passion it, is just you in the center then, you're gonna be worn out much, much much quicker so what I found works in a decade of doing this work now two. Things one is very much how, you live, through, others, how. You find, the, journey that you've been through. Refracted. Through the, lens of other people, that, are on the same journey and how. That religion, is your energy the, second team is also obviously, the fact that we, can't have this one course no. Matter how passing out deep. Deeply. Involve you and a particular course it helps to have some other course as well and that, is why I have not only done this technology, work. To, the exclusion of other way but. I have also been very politically, involved because. One, counterbalances. The other and I find out that if you're able to work with. At least two courses then. When there, is a bit of a tailspin, on the other one the other one keeps. You going, so those are the two things that I will advise chuckling, this is so so, head your best as, well fine to course you. Start with anger I know, I know, Rodrigo you start with dreams and I'm. Curious, if you're advising. The. Development, of next-generation. Plastics. What would be the things that you would be saying or, encouraging. With respect to dreams yes. Well. I. Know. We are totally. Driven by dreams so. I. Mean. That, and we do we we. We. We talk about it in opposition to the, problems of solving, mind so. We we've we feel that we lose. A lot of energy, when you're all the time looking to the problem it. Takes, our energy. Away, so. I, mean, having. Like the most you talk you utopian, dreams, I feel, for us is the best strategy but. To start with the small steps so. You can, you, can feel that it's possible, so. We dream, big but, we start small, so. We start to gain, confidence, that, is possible, if. We if we go right away to the big dream you. Get frustrated. So. That's your that's your advice what's, your dream. Please. Plastics, with the lower with with a high with a high voice. Why. So, for us I mean this is something that went away in the Middle Ages right. But. They're back yes, now nature has a way of building with with with, with, its own bricks with its with structural, proteins and the things that are different, is that these materials are variable, are living, and. And have, multiple functions you can eat them you can put them under your skin they degrade when you tell them to the grade. So. So it's it's really kind of a different a. Different take, on on. Materials. The the opportunities. The, opportunities is, like taking.
Chemistry's. And flavors and smells and giving them shape so you kind of break the form and function of the object and. So you can really get. To kind of utopian, spaces, and I I agree fully that you need to think, absolutely. Outside, of the box which is sort of like the. Reason why we have a lot of unusual, people, in our, lab but then you you have to be, very able to. To. Ride the middle and so to be, able to reduce the pragmatics, and to execute, because otherwise. You're stuck in a storytelling regime, and when I say you know when I want to give a talk because I'm an academic and that's what I could M exceed but when I give when I give a talk and I say. Eat. Your cell phone or plant your cell phone we. Actually ate a CCD, camera that we made I. Think. It's I'm okay. Just. Chase it with a lot of Scots and. I'm. Rebecca one. Of the conversations. We had early on and I really challenged, you on this I said really, easy for you to be in a privileged, position here. In New York working. With refugees. How. Do you use that privilege. How. Do you think about that privilege. I. Don't. Know if being in New York and working with refugees, is a particularly, privileged. Position, to be in right now but I'll take the rest of the question. No. I mean I I started, my. Project. And if we still have project, and the name because that's how, we think of it as a student, at Yale Law School and, I have no. Illusion. That I. Mean. Maybe, I him if I were a better dreamer maybe I'd have illusions, about it but, but no illusion, that we would have had the success that we did as rapidly as we did without like the backing of that institution, and of. Course just like get you know we. Don't need to go into a spiel about sort, of like the socio-economic, factors that, make someone like more or less likely to get to go to Columbia. Or Yale. Or wherever. Else. Suffice. To say that I think you. Know privilege, isn't something you should front, about like, I think it's not helpful if you have privilege, and I also Jen I'm from California and I will say that I did not know what privilege was until I got to like New England and I was like oh this is like money is. But. That's another separate, aside. I mean I just think that like you you. Have to own that you have privilege and not try to front and also not, try, to victimize, people with less privilege, and then just think about like okay I'm lucky, I have all this privilege, like how do I like deploy, it to I, hate that this word has been co-opted, but to disrupt, things you know as much as possible with great privilege comes great responsibility and, you had a personal, experience abroad, that brought, some. Light to that. I've. Had several personal, experiences, abroad I. I. Don't know which one I talking about Jordan or Zimbabwe Jordan. Okay sorry. Yeah. I know I was doing I was doing an internship. The. Summer between my first and second years of law school and, the. Upshot was that the. NGO, didn't have enough for me to do and. I have, things OCD, thing about wasting time and efficiency because, like let's face it we're all gonna die, pretty soon. So. Like go, for it right is how it that's what motivates me, that's. The session, with my own mortality I'm sure I know that's new. And. I. Got. This idea I just kept hearing about these Iraqi refugees, in Jordan and I got this idea that I should go meet, some, without. Any I wasn't like on then I'm gonna start a project and then sometime gonna tell a bunch of really fancy people at, the, Italian, Academy at Columbia about it and but, I just was really struck by the. Plight that people were in and they all just really seemed like they needed a good lawyer. There. We go a. Bright. Is challenged. With corruption. You're. Living and working in Santos, and having, to find, a way that people can dream and build. Their own houses. The first thing about architects, is aren't they the ones that are always telling people what to do right isn't how did you change that around and how do you deal with, folks. That are get in your way. First, of we are like we realized, that people have better ideas than than us for, how, their lives could be better. So, this. Is like kind of a arrogant. Like. Attitude. For like that so we, pretend. That we know how, people can live better that I can, have better lives in the beauties that we designed so. So. We we. Were amazed when we started to ask people. How. They they dream to live they, had wonderful ideas, one wonderful, solutions, for their lives and, what. What is good about it is that when you follow. Like. Their solutions, it. Tends, to to, work better, because. It's coming from them, so. It's it, tends to work much better it tends to - - continues, to be sustainable, a long time also. The. The issue about like corruption.
In, Politics. And I. Know. We trust we, trust. As. I said in the beginning in. The human. Potential or for doing good things in turn. So, no. Matter. Who. We were dealing, with it could be like a drug dealer in a, favela, Brazil, of availa or, the. Mayor of the city I, mean. And. We. Talk. To that person looking. For his. Or, her potential, of doing, good things and we are, amazed. But. Because we realize that all. Kinds, of people that we used, to consider. Like bad people people they. They they, still have the ability to do good things we. Have received, like cooperation. From, people, that we call criminals, they, were doing that for free to, support their, community. You. Know this I believe, that human beings they have potential, to do both things. We. Are not we are not like. It's. Not like as, some people say that is we are biologically. Or like we are naturally. Like, evil. We do bad things because this is like our pre, primitive. Instinct, we, have we have both. Both potentials, together so, it's how you stimulate. People. So. Which, which, one of the potentials you want to stimulate. Thank. You and and maybe just a last, question and we'll we'll ask for questions. On the mics but for, our two technologists. There's, a lot of discussion about technology, as being quite autonomous. Now it's, it's something. Can. We control it is it something that how. Do we relate it back to, human. Endeavors. And the ways that humans are, going to make choices about the, future and is, the genie out of the bottle. Please. How long until the singularity, there we are. My. Inspiration, from. You. Know the famous philosopher Michael. Polanyi and, you. Know he said a lot of great, things of you know in. Politics, but his, insights, that there. Are. Aspects. Of the way we think, there. Are not could defy Irbil it's. Very interesting because. It has implications, for a lot of the ways in which we look at the how technology. Evolves, globally at a global scale he. Makes the argument that because, it is not everything we think that we can say it.
Also Means that not all the rules are. Specified. We've. Had a great, discussion. This afternoon about machine learning what a machine learning can, provide a way out of that obviously. What machine learning cannot provide a way out of is giving my technology purpose, because. That discovery, surf is contested so even if you could say look we're not going to set up the rules they're, gonna learn and they're gonna evolve you, still have to contend, this is your purpose this, issue of meaning and whether as a society, we can leave that to try and arrow and how, much risk we are willing to bear so from a relocation aro