Global Energy Forum: Day 2 Session 2 12:00:47 am - 1:01:26 am
a fantastic panel and again just outstanding Panelists for discussion on trade and the energy transition. So our next panel it's buying to touch to a large degree on global trade. But we're going to zoom in on trade and cooperation in nuclear energy technologies.
So for those of you who are just tuning in. I'm Jennifer Gordon and I'm, the managing editor and senior fellow at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Center. I am so happy to introduce our next panel discussion, which is our third nuclear focus panel at the Forum this year New global opportunities for nuclear energy I'm looking forward to this conversation in which we'll be covering different regional requirements and interest in nuclear energy technologies, new financing an international civil nuclear cooperation. First I'm delighted to introduce our Panelists Marcello Gomez to Silva, head of the new Project Development Department at Electra, Nuclear Brazil, Cosme Andy to the CEO of Nuclear Electrica and Romania. Collins Juma, chief executive officer of Nuclear Power and Energy Agency in the Republic of Kenya Ambassador Laura Holgate, the vice president of materials risk management in the nuclear at the Nuclear threat Initiative. John Hopkins, chairman and chief executive officer of New Scale Power and College column, its chief executive officer of Fair Me and Erica in Estonia.
So I'd like to start off by asking our Panelists to each give a snapshot from their own unique vantage point of the international nuclear energy market, and Laura, I would like to start with you and ask Global nuclear market is expected to triple by the middle of this century. So why is it that nuclear energy right now is having this global renaissance? I think it really comes down to climate. I think s O. Many countries are focusing on their commitments under the Paris accords or other Forms of political commitment or just recognizing the the importance of climate issues for their country, whether from its health perspective or a environmental perspective, or all the different ways in which climate is in pinching upon our country's manage there. You know their overall economies so the opportunity for another form of clean energy alongside solar wind.
Hydro other types of renewables eyes Really, I think a big motivation because nuclear can fill roles that the other renewables can't that other clean energies are not able to fill whether it comes to base load or whether it comes to load following or Other other applications, such as the importance of clean water on desalination, whether it's process he to support industry. Whether it's hydrogen down the road as we look to D carbonized the transportation components of our economies. The new reactor types that air coming in the generation for reactors offer a lot of diversity about vacation beyond what was possible before, so I think not only are you seeing countries looking for new sources of clean energy You're also seeing new ways for nuclear energy to fill needs and knishes within these new economies. Thank you, Laura on. That's a perfect, I think pitched the next question, which is a start talking about the niche that nuclear energy can fill. And I really wanna do a deep dive almost a country by country here and we have such a great opportunity with so many people gathered from so many different time zones to really get into this, but I want to ask Marcelo Gomez. Why does nuclear energy make sense?
In Brazil? Brazil has hydropower and solar and wind. So so what's that niche that nuclear is going to fill in Brazil? Hello and good evening. Good morning, everyone. Yes, Brazil is developing country and asses a search. We have here a huge demand for a new infrastructure for sewage water treatment. Uh, educational lighting and and so on. So this is a big pressure for new megawatts on the greed you know, by year As the as the country's moves as the industry grows and the city's get more dance, and you need to have more services to the population. If you have a country like Brazil, which actually has a lot of hydro resources.
But there's a big pressure environmental pressure against new developments. You can't fluid large areas anymore. Esso were somehow restricted toe renewables like solar winds. And stick to the hydro. We have or just without was his of worse, and we have to roll, but it doesn't have much cool. Ah and so nuclear is a very important option for the country for a country like Brazil to put new megawatts to put on the greed to face the development off of the country, right.
We way also have issue that's Watch recent on climate change when the country has a such large dependence on hydro. As Brazil has just so we're over you. We used to be over 80%. Now We're 60% Hydro. We're very sensitive to the hydrology of years. You have some dry years. We have some some
rainy years. And what we're seeing now is that more and more It's getting drier and drier, which means that the affluence is the amount of water we had on the rivers. Eyes, not reflecting what we used to have in the past. So there's also this pressure that we're starting to see, Uh end off course we need based loads. And so it's just With everything that everything together we need for. Ah,
Economically viable base loads that brings us safe security and supply, and this way nuclear has is an important role in the country. And in the region, I should say. Thank you, Marcello. That's so interesting because we talk and we focus so so much on what our energy system what our power system is doing to the environment. And then we don't often think about
the flip side, which is what is the environment due to the available sources of energy. So when you talk about hydropower on how that's impacted by the environment, so I think that's just absolutely fascinating. Thank you, Um I want to pose a question to to Collins. How did Kenya recognized the need for nuclear power in its energy mix? Thank you, Jennifer. Uh, I want to say that we We also going through the same route that breath Brazil is taking. We also have some little
drops off solo and And weaned on da other renewables. But how We came to the discussion on the table nuclear eyes that Kenya aspires or a spare that time that was around 2000 and eight Would come a middle income economy like Malaysia on single fall on Never was to reach where we wanted to go, or we went to reach by the 2030 on duh. Having done that, we looked at what would be the nebulous because infrastructure would be in a nebula to such vision and then energy is a big company. Then having identified in ideas and the nebula, then we also look at the sources we we we have we had at that time. And we've been over dependent on Hydro I hydropower. Uh, no experience is not very good with hydro power because of the hydrology. So when they went, the variability goes down.
We also have. Ah, We don't have enough power. On that time, 2008 also we we way had discovered the potential off. But some will power tell you we have one off the largest producers of your colonel, your family in Africa. So we did a crunch of numbers. So no war the potential of your camel. How far can we stretch our hydro? What would be the possible generation from cool and we were talking of important cool and then that time also, we just had the very conference on cupping on called Generation.
Then we looked at if we do additional, or wind and solar, not given that they're not base load. So in terms of industrialization, we can't really depend on wind and solar. And then we thought off. How about nuclear for long term
because we found that with the potentially having in hydro, with the potential in geothermal And what we could generate from Cole. We we would still need a best of generation when you come to industries and we decided that for a long time we start nuclear program and that's what we've been doing for the last 89 years. So that when we reach that stage, then you know, nuclear takes a long time. S O. If you take the lead time of 10 15 years you don't want to reach there. Then you start a journey of another 10 15 years. That's how
we arrived at this decision and I would say that is progressing women. On duh. Uh, given the given the haps and downs off develop nuclear in any country. I think the graph is gradually going up.
Thank you. Thank you, Collins. And I think, um, one thing that jumped out to me on your remarks Just now was when you said we crunch the numbers, you know, and that this made sense. And because I think that oftentimes, you know, at least maybe this is just the United States. But we talk all the time about the high upfront costs of nuclear energy. But then when you drill down just a little deeper and people say, Oh, we crunched the numbers.
And you know, and I think the answer is right there so That said, I want to go to colors and say to you, you know again, we sort of have this view that in the U. S nuclear is extremely unpopular. But my question is, Is it possible that the door might still be open specifically for SM ours? Yeah, well, it zef innately gonna be stronger because in European Union, we do have a member of states that are truly for internal political presence. Strongly anti nuclear and One of them could be one of those nations is is Australia that creates problems for Czech Republic and Slovakia and Slovenia. I'm probably also for costuming in Romania. Andre are some few others, so that doesn't go away. So there will be no European
coherent policy or nuclear for decades to come. I'm pretty confident, however, were free Nations still toe make up for your own mind. On So currently early this year. The current price in Europe is €35
per ton, and it's moving upwards, and it's because of the, uh Coming crisis because of the money printing, and it goes to the assets like Tesla and other other assets that related to climate on Desi or two emission right. This one of those long term assets that is a safe bet. Meaning that when a stone in government for seed carbon pricing just two years ago, they predicted that in 2030, the cargo price will be 35. Now we're 2021 right on expectation for the end of this year is beyond 40. So it's really
Serious Andre. What is also serious Andre create clear is that the new will build out is strongly below expectations. It is much more challenging toe move from some wind. Some s solar so significance. We need significant solar. So
this step up base is also being recognized, and I'm extremely piece that the new government will be which will be formed. On their first female prime minister in Estonia recognizes the potential off to Mars. And I'm really pleased also that in Europe At the at the potential off to Mars as compared to the large nuclear, which Really makes many governments and utilities French on thinking that I have to invest $7 billion. That's
that, really? Well, it is very problematic. Really Thank you so much color for that great snapshot and I want to turn to Kuzmin and ask you from Romania. Is that sort of your view as well? Or what do you have to either add? Or, you know, perhaps argue with women in what college just said. Well, um, let me quickly touch base on restate what has been said by everyone here, Um The carbon ization without nuclear is impossible. Um There is no years geek or without the carbon ization. So we're right
at the very center off PSG finance. You want to have a sustainable environment. You want to have a clean energy future nuclear needs to be part of it. On and then it should be rightfully recognized and rewarded inside. We're going to see about $1 Trillion in a zoo market as a potential investment. Check for adopting. Yes, he standard worldwide.
Now, if we were to go back, Tomo half a step Um, the you taxonomy and the role it plays in defining nuclear energy as a sustainable form of development is critical. And it is unfortunate that this moment we haven't managed to include nuclear as part attacked Donna me. Of the various sources of production that can be deemed a sustainable simply because, um, of ways in which classifications done, but I'm very sure that this will happen and By understanding Yes and Marthe a swell as current nuclear, for example, for Romania and the nuclear program helped saved £2020 million per year. So we're almost 150
million tons of steel to safety through to attending the actions that were operating a turn a little. Um, I think I think that financing will become much, much more accessible in this. In this sense, however, we all need to cooperate between ourselves and really understand. Understand the fact In the scientific truth, rather than it takes other bureaucratic considerations and baking and doing our evaluation.
Okay, Um, Kuzmin. That was terrific. And you know now that we've kind of got talked about the why of of nuclear cousin both from you and then also picking up on what Laura said in the beginning in her remarks and then gone around this room, you know of international experts. I want to go to John Hopkins and say As a U S company. Um, which emerging markets do you think? Hold the
most potential for new scale. Andrea, where you looking? And what are you looking for? When you survey the international landscape? Thank you, General again. Let me start off by saying Thank you for the invite tonight. I've only been with new scale now for eight years
and I came out of An industry where we built and invested in offshore wind and MPV solar and I could remember coming in Um, When I mentioned the small monitor reactor or advanced reactor a short eight years ago, most people either roll arise or they say it's all about economies of scale. It's only about large. And in a short eight years, I now see when I go to I a conferences, manners, it says, largest. Now the nature it's all about small, and there's a lot of reasons. I believe for that. And We've been very fortunate and new scale had a milestone year this year. In August of 2020
we have completed the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Face six. So we're essentially in the process of going out and building plants. We currently have our first customer. And yet United States who just signed their contracts. We got her first task in order, and this will be our first sight will be a guide of the national lab.
And it'll be with the Utah Association. Missile power in the contract will be floor corporations of private investment and the end of the new skill. It's been a don T challenge to get where we are. Now that we have gone through the NRC process. We're seeing a lot of interests around the world. It was mentioned earlier. You know the
in terms of the U of the 27 countries When the U. Um you know, I don't know how many exactly 14 16 do have nuclear power. And we're getting calls from central and Eastern Europe. And predominate for two reasons and it was stated earlier. One was energy and one is energy security. Any other one is climate
disruption in the impact has released a carbon tax initiatives. Then, do you so we currently enjoy memorandum of understanding with five countries within Central and Eastern Europe, as well as subsidiarity, Icka In the Middle East. So when I look at where the market is, it's really about who has, you know, in terms of timing. Our intent is to My first plant will be eight modules each module 77 megawatts.
Once I get my first module up and running, that's my pilot plan to be able to show Can be cost. Certain economics is going to support this, and I will move into number two and number three when I was asked for by the the Kazakh president about And it always comes down to commercial reality. Are you gonna be commercially viable right now? Where we are? I've scaled up everything in our small reactor. Our fuel is less than 5% fuel that's been used around the world.
We have a very robust supply chain globally we working with and we have suppliers who in investing us do son at a creative sergeant Lindy of the U. S. Syrians, now at a Belgium And where I'm looking at is our primary focus is within the U. S. It's going to be areas of the probably the North. West were fossil fuel plants are being shut down. And, you know, hopefully we're gonna be able to come in and say our emergency planning zone inside state boundary limits. So we've already done all the analysis on creating jobs for those communities, but I think it's gonna be very similar in other parts of the world.
Now, where were getting interest? Most of it's for electricity use, but the applications and I heard today when I was listening to some of my association together industry in the other. Reactor business, You know, that's its heat. It's providing energy for process heat for desalinization. The new when it's on the block right now is hydrogen production. We were just talking about New scale has been working with IA Nelson's 2014 on providing it Economics associated of using a new scale module in the production of hydrogen, and now we're looking at low temperature as well as high temperatures. So
Where where it's going to come. I'm not sure where my second plan's gonna be, but it's probably gonna be in that part of the world. I just mentioned Africa, Middle East or Central Europe. Thanks, John. It's just a fascinating look at how you look at the world from the U. S. But also I want to say that your
remarks just now picked up on the first of our three nuclear panels, which was last night We looked at nuclear beyond power and applications of nuclear for hydrogen heat and desalination. So Then I should also say are seconds of the second of our three nuclear panels over the course of the Global Energy Forum was this afternoon and it was on nuclear innovation and what the next 10 years will look like in nuclear energy. So I think that this panel really is tying a bunch of those threads together.
And I actually I want to keep doing that on. Do you kind of get a deep dive on new reactors, but specifically again, from the standpoint of what the new reactors mean for international cooperation on for international development and trade, and so I want to go again to you, Laura. We've talked a lot about this notion of security design in the context of the new reactors. And can you say more about what security design means and why it matters. The These new reactors differ from the large gigawatts scale reactors that dominate the global energy market right now and on the nuclear front.
In many in many ways, and they have different fuel types. They have different enrichment levels of those fuels. They have different fuel forms. They will need new. Facilities to make their fuel and to manage the spent fuel that comes out of the back end on bees air these air in many cases different not not so much new scale because this Kayla's assed, John said his building on an existing global supply chain, But a lot of these other reactor types do have Um you know whether it's the try soap you'll in a billiard ball shape your element. Um or whether it's um liquid metal fuels that some some reactors are talking about. These are very, very different from the standard, you know, giggle a scale light water reactor that is the backbone.
Of not just the nuclear energy production world, but also the global guidance on how to use those reactors safely and securely. And so there's gonna be a significant change that's already happening in the U. S. And Canada a little bit of the UK On the regulatory front on how to apply the principles to new types of technology, and the most important thing that can be done is to really take advantage. Of the fact that these air still you know, still in the process of being designed and licensed and built and we can make changes now to make sure that they are secure.
Um it by design, in addition to the safety and the economics that are being designed into them, you know, people think about nuclear security is being a very expensive Component of nuclear energy, But that's primarily because it's been added on post facto to the generation three and three plus reactor types. The major changes in our understanding about nuclear security happened well after those reactors were designed, and so the security and improvements have been glued on in a way. If those can be built in then you can not only make them less costly, but you could also then have that be a selling point of the reactor that it is, in fact easier to secure and protect. The other thing That's different about these reactors is that they're going into new parts of the World Party countries that that may have less experienced regulatory processes that maybe in areas that air More susceptible to conflict. And so the environment in which these reactors maybe used is also going to be quite different. So all of
these argue for taking the time now to pay attention to how do we design in security? Not just in the reactor but in fuel cycle itself to make sure that these reactors can be securely deployed globally at the scale that will be necessary for them to make a difference that needs to be made on the climate site. Thank you, Laura. That was fascinating Overview and I wanna go go around the room again and just get a sense of how everyone on this panel is is thinking about these issues and you know as they look to their own each of their own countries Nuclear energy program. So, Marcello, I want to go to you. Um, I just ask, you know, as you think about the types of nuclear that Brazil is developing. Are you focusing more? To what extent? Are you focusing on extending the operation and capacity at hunger Unit one, or you really more focused this point on advanced nuclear reactors. Okay, so forth for the present. We are working very, very hard on
the life extension of hunger one because it's zero big, big issue of quite economical if you haven't operating plants On the can extend its lifetime for by 20 more years. It Z wonderful, right and we are concluding a new plant in the free, which is between off hunger to just are the big products that are going on in Brazil right now, um, for the expansion the new nuclear generation we have just recently issued a new 2050 plan the country has issued Ah 2050 energy plan, and it sees there's room for new, expressive new nuclear generation. In some gazes up to 10 gigawatts. Depending on the deployment off you solar and wind. And so so there's a lot of room for for new new nuclear in the country. We still see the backbone of this expansion is in large.
Westernized water reactors, right, But there's has been recently a lot of interest in small modular reactors. For some regions of Brazil. It makes a lot of sense, especially if you look at at the north of the country. When you go to the Amazon area that you have some very large cities there. That are isolated from the rest of the country. You can't cross the
forest with transmission lines. It's very complicated, environmentally speaking. So there's a lot of sense for in using small modular reactors in that region, and in fact, at the end of 2020, we had a blackout in one off those cities there. It was very difficult issue because Some large reformer that supply the cities. They had some some issues
and we had many days in a completely black outs in the city, which is, uh, we can't admit that in the 21st century, right? So there's a lot of sense for for small modular reactors in that area as well as a whole, I think just just threw an idea. I think that it would benefit a lot the industry or in the world if we had some sort off. Global regulation or approval for small modular reactors, just like you have in the aviation industry, where you can certify an airplane and flight in many countries.
If we try to build up the infrastructure for licensing reactors in every country, I think it's zoo difficulty thing. It's not very efficient. Thank you. Thank you so much, Marcello, and I love that that comparison to the aviation industry. Um, Collins. I want to go to you and ask you talked about phasing in small reactors. While monitoring can use electricity grid. So can you give us a sense of where you're at in that process and the types of nuclear reactors that you feel are most appropriate for Kenya? Yeah. Thank you, Jennifer. Um, I think I give my story up to when
we made a decision that we want include nuclear in the 19 mix. But now the initial thought was that The GDP would grow to some extent that by the 20 tatty we shall love hard on expanded, agreed You know the United consumption and GDP that graph is almost similar. So That was the thinking that time but due to a world economic construct, that has not happened, so we had to do a paradigm shift, because initially we thought off.
4000 megawatts by the 2030 in terms of the fleet of 1,001,000 last 1000. But the way the economy has blown And to that extent the way how agreed as grown, we find that this might not be achievable. So we've shifted our thought, too small modular reactors. And for drink for good reasons that the flexibility within the greed that is, if you have a small green And the construction time. On Great accommodation. And maybe the last one. If if June allows me is the coast,
But that is a discussion that maybe we'll have letter so because of those reasons we've had a paradigm shift to consider having small model area test. On DA We've done Ah reactor technology assessment for both. Uh, large power reactors and the model. A reactor is
now this is not only for Kenya in the sub Saharan Africa. But I think most of the grids in this region are small grids on bond. I think the SMR has come at the right time where countries that maybe in terms of capacity and it comes off and I shall might might not be able to afford the large reactors in in terms of those factors have just mentioned Might turn to money Loretta's, and I think many will follow suit. That's that. Those are the resulting that has taken place to make a three such a position that We consider this small modular reactors. We know the new scale is leading in this where then we have this march reactor from Korea on. I think Chinese Sarah
are also doing the there. There. There there beach on that, But we've not really made a decision, which particularly after we want to install What we have in principles that were likely to go to small modular reactors. So that's the decision that Is currently being reviewed.
Thank you. That's fascinating again. Just, you know, looking at different grids and look and the grid of any particular country and saying, Well, what makes the most sense here? So call If I know I know your answer on a NASA Mars. I know that you're extremely supportive and and bullish on s a Mars and my question to you is, you know, Do you kind of come to that conclusion, either because of the technology itself, Or do you think that there's an extent to which as a Mars I have a unique ability to attract private capital and that that that also that you know once you bring in the financing angle Um, that that's also kind of a case that could be made for s a Mars in comparison to say, you know, like what A reactors was in the national It's very simple. It's economics. I could say the carbon price right now is 35. When I did my PhD the price on like 18 months ago, the price was 15 and I saw based on the numbers that I did that It's will go where it is today. I'm not so soon, but the price has to go toe 80.
By 2040 to reach the European goals on this absolutely recognized that the new Europe that easiest way to Deke organization is electrification. In transportation and heating but also in other industrial sectors, meaning that our demand goes up and this is the primary. This is absolutely the primary demand. On Dwayne had it is impossible to invest international gas in this impossible to invest in the Colin in Europe. If you're really doing the numbers and understanding what one of the consequences of the policies that happen adopted already So it is only possible to do on Cartman Carbon emitting sources on do like I said, Renewable doesn't cut it on. It doesn't
have the security supply on so when we are in Estonia and the politics where we have right now, minus seven degrees outside and well, very little, some latitude, 59. I mean, it's no brainer. We're like Canada, Sweden and Finland. They have nuclear. We have to have nuclear is well, It is just up to the capability of organ organizing, and I'm doing it. I would poor poor little bit cold water
on the argument off advancing. You know, we have to do nuclear Now We can't wait. We have to get projects moving on based on like water systems.
When we have the training regulatory system in place supply chain in place, So the decisions made in the states by us by oh peachy, Hopefully also in UK on Rolls Royce design are hugely important. Or the employment nations Still bc critical technologies with credible budgets to move into business, but If you're moving, looking at Europe, we have something like 50 Giga. Off capacity going out off the window. Next 15 years I called on by actual gas but also old old nuclear that has to be replaced and added up.
Yeah. Additional capacity, so it's we have to get multiple multiple new projects moving In in many nations in Europe, and I'm seeing Pretty good awakening with by some companies that are within or closest partners off Harriman, Eric about the fall for two manned and tractable on Dad s O There is awakening. Thank you fellow on I want to again Go to cosmonaut and ask you for your view again from Romania. And do you see Smrz as the next step, and and to what extent do you feel? Because I know you're also extremely interested. You know, in this question of nuclear energy finance, um So how do you kind of see you know, bringing in new nuclear and also bringing in the finance piece? Well, I'm going to talk in my capacity as CEO of nuclear operator who is currently in the process of completed vision that was started years ago with four large candy type reactors.
But keeps a closer temptation I on the gift of new nuclear technologies, and realistically, what better time would be to open a gift that not the present on bits for that reason that we have signed minimally scale. Up for knowledge sharing on and basically creating understanding of these new technologies. And we've also accessed the U. S. T V eight grand
Ah, and $1.2 Million to identify the sites that would be credible to lessen Mars for Romania is currently measured as I previously mentioned nuclear is part of the department. Vacation packages has been For a long period of time, so we will be looking to grow the new technologies that come in. They do offer a lot of other benefits is on top of intense security load following and also possible cogeneration in hybrid systems. It's something that has
I dream come true. If you are to look at, uh at environmental considerations and the carbon ization, you have resilient energy production with zero emission And that is why we feel that on from a client's standpoint, it would be rewarded as such because it has added benefits through, um, increase up time. Um, also, it can give you all types of cogeneration benefits that would make this a very worthwhile investment. Now modularity of Esther Mars might make it even much easier to deploy capital into it, then large infrastructure. Because the Catholics is required into various crunchy and you don't have a one time let's say March tickets that question would be is managing completion, completion risk and I think that through Modularity and having repeated for, uh, construction, multiple construction. You can manage that completion that is one of the largest impediments to access private financing into them in your face.
Thank you. And I want to go to John and continue on this this question of finance. Um, what is what is it? International co financing Look like again from your standpoint on D I know you mentioned before. You know, kind of some of the international partners that you work with it. New scale. But, you know, are you looking at Co financing builds in third party countries with our established civil nuclear allies. Are you looking actively seeking?
Foreign investment in US projects. What do you think of when you think of International Co financing and financial corporation? No, I'm often asked Jennifer who is our competition outside United States and my immediate answer generally of state owned enterprises who do have the ability to do wraparound financing. And you know, Fortunately, um Recently, his last year, the US ideas See International Development Corporation had dropped. Their nuclear prohibition are stated they will finance I read just two days ago. I think it was a memory Nian of understanding between Japan Bank of International Cooperation and I d s P to finance and with their portfolio they mentioned advanced reactors also financing so you know, we'll we'll those type of entities help us, you know, in terms of total 11 and played level the playing field, no bits increasingly important for us to Have that additional Erin or quiver When we go to these countries and say we can help finance? We also have Exim Bank that has a quarter now. We had hoped to get us some point time the World Bank Taken consideration that she's developing countries have specific needs, and they should drop their nuclear prohibition. And we need
him help to get there that we've been talking to him and where I think we're making some inroads. So That's an answering capacity that you mentioned is very important for our technologies going forward to many of these countries. Thank you, John. And I'm so glad that you mentioned these developments in the last few years that we've seen, especially dfc and XM. Um,
and I think you know, I don't know about you, but I think a few years ago if you'd said what's on your policy wish list. A lot of people would have said, you know those two right up at the top, So it's been really just incredible to see that happen. Do you want to stay on this notion of international civil nuclear cooperation and ask Laura what does that look like to you? You and you can stay on the cook financing or you can move into I A or take this question in whatever direction you wish. I think there's multiple layers of international cooperation that they're going to be required. The financing that John just mentioned
is, I think essential and it's great to see these new tools in the U. S. To allow us to compete more effectively on the global on the global scale. Marcello mentioned the potential for collaboration among regulators to provide a common regulatory structure for some of these new reactor types that are coming online. That's an exciting opportunity. The International Atomic Energy Agency is is obviously the centerpiece of international cooperation. I think
there's a lot they need to do to bring the Safeguards requirements that will exist for the vast majority of countries that operate these new types of reactors and to think about the application. As I mentioned earlier of security requirements as they apply to new technologies, there's also the potential to follow. The path of the low enriched uranium bank that the IAEA owns and operates on behalf of its member states to think about applying that to feel some new fuel cycle facilities that might be needed or other aspect of the new Requirements for these different types of reactors or for the spread of existing reactor technologies. And so I think international cooperation is gonna be right at the heart of this as it should be, and it's a good thing. The more countries
understand about how each other is using nuclear energy and the environment in which they're applying it. The more secure and confident we can be that it's being used for peaceful purposes on got diverted tol You know other other Illicit activities. Thank you, Laura Firm. Yes. I think the ambassador was spot on and the comments, you know, and we're seeing start of collaboration recently. The NRC US enter See in Canada have formed in a Nemo you to accept a certain data between two countries in that's a big spot US start. You know, we have a real champion and Danny, a director general Bill bag would has been trying to promote.
You know, again from a regulatory perspective, a more some continuity between countries to come together to help enhance and promote the regulatory process. So We're starting to see it happen within specific countries. The help it's hope again. You know, I'd love to see the UK with their G D, a process doing similar working with the U. S. Canada,
etcetera. And, um, informed some sort of consortium in that regard, so we're seeing progress there. Absolutely on day. I wanted to thank you, John and I want to stay. I think on that regulatory piece on international harmonization and go back to Marcello, because you sort of introduced this notion into this conversation, and I want to ask, Do you do you have more to add? Or is there anything else that you would add to that the other pieces of that international cooperation puzzle? Well, our nuclear industry has, uh, international cooperation from the start, right? We we, For example, we are operating company. We do operating reviews abroad and people from other operation organizations come toe make here if you are not on our plants. Just, uh intense flow in exchange of information off operational experience design experience. I think it's an industry that it's
very strong on international corporation, especially on the operating site. If you look at some, uh Was he called vendor countries, countries that sell nuclear power plans. They have most off them. They have
cooperation problems, very aggressive cooperation programs established nuclear universities. Training programs for establishing regulatory brought bodies on other countries. Ah, this is also very interesting. Off course It's a commercial interests
behind all that, But I think that as I said, nuclear industry, this international cooperation is very, very strong. I think I ate plays a major role. On that. Aziz, uh, is a commonplace for exchange of ideas or establishing regulations and It's always very, very tough job to accommodate all the different commercial interests, national interests, but they do a wonderful job on that. And I think that we should see that coming more than Maura's, as they put in in that idea off harmonization off regulation for a small reactors. And Ah, I think also for sharing operational experience formation, training off operators. There's a lot of grounds that off course it you can have Larger, uh, international cooperation both both on an international basis, but also on regional as well. I think
countries really Take a specific region like Latin America or Africa. They're culturally very close countries and they have similar issues and they can share their experience together. And I think this is ah, very exciting for the industry, asshole.
Collins. I want to go to you and asked a similar question. What is international cooperation look like to you? And what are you looking for? From international civil nuclear partners. E think, my colleague from Brazil a sated Oh, because nuclear the keywords in nuclear is peer review and global cooperation.
Ah, no, I said that when we met this a decision in 2000 and 8 18, the first step all the first top was a year when we went to get the guidelines on how member states are guided on how to develop a nuclear program. On Then we realize that we want to. We want to learn from those who've done it well, And that's when we started finding Emma used with sand MoU with with Korea. We find him or you China gonna We had a framework. A arrangement with the U S. Which we're now formalizing through a government to government, eh? MOU. So we realize that cooperation is the in thing and the key thing in nuclear power program, especially for the newcomer countries, But I believe also for their for the For the countries that are also adding their fleet. I think cooperation
is still key to them. I want to say that we've really benefited from these corporations and especially of the Technical advice from the TC department in the eye and also from our development partners, because, um, A sleazy nuclear You know, you may know something that the other person doesn't know. And I would say that going forward corporation is that is the one in the in the nuclear world.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you on dcaa live. I want to ask And I know you had your hand up just a moment ago. So Your thoughts on international civil nuclear cooperation. Yeah, We're cooperating a lot in in Europe, as were most of them.
Most of us are actively small countries, and, uh and I'm cooperating. Also with cosmic in our remaining friends and and checks and British and Dutch and so forth, but very closely. I think every week attorney stubble to discussions with our American partners of different companies and And organizations. But it would John mentioned well how Russia is able to finance nuclear but look how and remember how nuclear started. With eyes and horse speech. Right? So
what needs to be happening again is from United States. Perspective is national leadership. On a nuclear selling. So Mr Putin is said selling Russian directors. Mr Macron is selling French directors. So if America wants the result
again be a global leader. Your president. Has to be in world this has do you have to understand how serious nuclear energy is for any nation toe for deployment as well. It is not the commercial decision only. So it's a serious serious thing on It has to be felt by the national leadership. So I mean, that is
that is something that has to be relearned. I believe in United States, apparently. Um, but, yeah, Corporation is extremely important. Also in licensing, but we have to realize
what are what this regulation in the world. Uh, when when it comes to the International Atomic Energy Agency and on day also European regulations s O. The regulatory independence is the rule on duh. Therefore, we have developed in Estonia together
with our finished partners, Uh, framework for SMR licensing, which would utilize the maximum extent. Country of Origin Safety Assessment report on But that is something we're combining common agreement on with other companies intent on on the Boeing New Nuclear or S, a Mars in in Europe. But, yeah, I think, uh, nuclear is really, really serious. Okay, It has escalated so much the politics so much the national leadership decisions. So United States leadership has to
be Serious understanding that if that they want to be regaining that position that has only one consequence. That has to be full international commitment at the leadership level. That is how it is. Thank you. Thank you. Ka Love s O. We have about four minutes left. And you
brought up the American president and his role in international nuclear energy s o with the time that we have remaining Wanted T O just a quick lightning round. Go around the room and ask what signals are each of you looking for from the new Biden Harris administration, So let's start again with with Laura. So I'm looking at the folks who have been named, um, whether it's John Kerry or Gina McCarthy or Jennifer Graham home to the key roles, and so far they are not known for a particular perspective very much on these nuclear issues. So I'm gonna be looking at the staffs there to see who they bring on and see. Are they ready to play the kind of leadership role that college really accurately points out is gonna be critical. That's a great point. Laura. I should say, Raise your hand if you've
ever Googled John Kerry, Nuclear or Jennifer Granholm. I think that's the most of us on this call. Marcello, what are you looking for? From the New York U. S administration.
Well, I think that an important changes that us is coming back to the Paris agreement. So environment so Theo climate change issues are important. This is very good news for nuclear as AH, Greenhouse free. Mm energy source, and they also expect that international corporation also continues in nuclear. We have an important program with us right
now, and no hope it continues in this administration. Thank you. Marcello Collins. What are you looking for? From the U. S administration think that claim it. Change. Mitigation is Kias has just been mentioned. That I think is good us is coming back to the table on this issue, But not only that. I hope the new administration when I listened,
killed the last night the speech was It's given a ray of hope that maybe we could go back to those days when the U. S government plays a major role in in the nuclear industry. I think there's been a lot of for some time. Because companies like Westinghouse used to be big names in the nuclear discussion, but I think it came some time where you could have a whole conference without mentioning Westinghouse. But let's hope that the new administration will will bring back nuclear industry to where it used to be. Until thank you. Give us give us your 12th Take on what you're looking
for. Yeah, in 15 years, shut down All Colin United States and replace it, But that's the Mars very simple on. I mean, there are multiple tools in the presidential toolbox to do that. Ondo. Ultimately, by 2050. You have to shut down all natural gas. That's a simple as it goes on drip lace it with this Amar's and with normals and that serious that is serious, serious years thing, and we're doing it in European Union, and that's why we need multiple multiple multiple sites on businesses that deploy Sim Mars and that's what we're doing in Estonia, which fireman Erica. Thank you. Carla OFC, Osmond.
Well, the one thing that I would say is yes. Giving the signal that the U. S. Is looking for to continue its support and being a present nuclear leader. Because nuclear projects expand over multiple years on multiple administrations, so the bipartisan support and store check towards Advancing you? The nuclear agenda needs to be a strategic level. And that is why, for example, Romania decided to enter into intergovernmental agreement with the U. S in developing a phony defector because it is part of the strategic relationship and that needs to stay force.
Thank you, Caz man. And John. The last word is to you with possibly the most on the line here in the new U. S administration. You know, we're very proud that we have a real private public partnership. Now. We wouldn't be here without the current without the U. S government.
You know, Congress inner see Delia and our private investors, particularly Floor Inc. And I'd like to see if you think of the last decade a great success story has been the cost of renewables and how they've come down dramatically. $51 billion was over the last 10 years was provided to renewables.
Whereas incentives and tax breaks to help get them where they are today. If we had some of that money and advanced nuclear community, I think the returns to our government would be phenomenal. And if you had $10 billion in incentives that could produce over six gigawatts of SMR capacity by 2035. I'd like to see more of that
happening. Thank you. I think this was a fantastic note to end on and it's just been a fascinating conversation, and I'm so grateful to each and every one of you for joining us so They also say, I think and I think I said this in the green room. I'm not sure if I said it on the panel once we were alive, But I think that we've assembled the largest group of people in the highest number of time zones. And I think that this is really truly a silver
lining of the work from home situation that we've all been in for the last 10 months that we've been able to convene people and have conversations that might not have otherwise taken place. So I think you know we're really fortunate to be able to do this. I want to say goodnight to our North American Panelists into our audience and thank you for sticking with us. And of course, good afternoon