From Closed to Open Banking the new face of digital transformation
Ladies. And gentlemen, please welcome chief, technical officer industry. Platforms, Tom Eck. How're we doing. First. Of all thank you for coming here this evening I know it's probably been another long day I hope you having a great time at this awesome conference and, I. Probably, stand between you, drinks. Train. Chainsmokers. And. Other. Assorted, festivities. That go on at Vegas so yeah. So again, Tomic, industry, platforms. So. Obviously, what. I do is, I work on building platforms. For different industries and. Today. I'm going to be specifically. Talking about financial, services but if you're not in financial services that's fine because a lot of what. I will be addressing as. Also goes across industries. As well. So. I'm going to be talking about the. Art of the possible as, well as the art of the actual, I just heard that phrase today the art of the actual so I'm stealing that and. What I mean by that is I'm going to be taking us through, somewhat. Of some. Theory, but I'm gonna quickly get down to very practical, there's gonna be a very practical talk, with. Very. Actionable, steps, that you can start taking on. The journey that I'm gonna take you on to to open banking so the, the, attorneys, told me I had to put 15, slides of disclaimers, and I negotiated. Down to one. So. Let, me tell you what this talk is going to be about okay the, the topic is about really, about open, banking, and, and. Platforms. And I'm. Going to start by giving, a definition of, open, banking, I'll contrast, that with closed banking, and then, talk about why. I believe that platforms. Are the way forward both, for, from, a commercial sense and from a technology sense. For. The future of financial services and I'm, not just going to frame a problem, I'm also going to give you a an, opinionated, solution, and some. As I said before actionable. Steps on how, to get started so. At the end of this I hope, that you've. Learned a little bit about open banking, and can, start thinking about how it might apply in. Your. Company, so. Let's start with some, definitions so. Open. Banking, so. It's. A term that's used in, financial services referring. To the use of open api's that, enable third-party, developers, to, build apps and services around, financial. Institution. What's, interesting is, it's. Not exactly a brand new idea in fact the. Idea of open, innovation, started. In the mid 2000s. 2005-2006. It was popularized, in, this book which, was published by Harvard. Press and, the. Book presented. A sixth, stage business. Maturity model that, culminated, in a, platform innovation. Model, where, external, that this is the great part where, external, parties commit. Capital in support. Of an alongside your. Own activities, okay, so they're doing your work they're doing work for you that you don't have to pay them for and. Sounds. Too good to be true no this is real and I'm gonna show you how you're gonna do it yourself so. In, simple in simple terms to, unpack, a little bit more about open banking, I think that there's three aspects, to it okay one. Is again enabling, third party integrations, so when we talk about, integrations. We're talking about technology we're. Talking about technology and, integrations we're talking about developers, I am, a developer, so. I so, this a lot of this resonates, with me and and then, I have a lot of passion for openness.
Open Banking, or open api's and platforms, the second part of open banking is its. Consumer, related and I'm gonna get into some of the drivers of open, banking which. Are somewhat, driven by regulation, and one of those regulations drives. Greater. Financial, transparency. For. Consumers, so instead. So today banks. Mostly, have. Control. Of your. Data right of of, your, payments, of your of your balance, and other types of information and as, I'll mention in a couple of slides there. Are regions. In. The world that are mandating, that banks give greater access to that data, to registered, third parties, and that is for the benefit of the consumer and I'll get into that and the third aspect of of open banking is, using. Open source technologies. And. There. Are several frameworks, that are available to kind of guide, guide. Us in thinking about open, banking the. Two that I have, pointed out here on this slide one, is beyond banking, industry. Architecture, Network. IBM. Sits, on the board of that committee, and the. Idea there is to kind. Of do a functional, decomposition of, the, financial, services industry into. Different business, domains, so much in the way that we would tackle a complex problem and break it you know decompose, it into more bite-sized, pieces that's. What this framework does and we use that ourselves, as kind, of a map of the world to. Help us think about the. Different parts of the, financial services industry and, how, we might prioritize. Going, going. After different pieces of it. So. Let's, talk about drivers, of open, banking so we'll start with regulation. So. In. 2015. The, European Parliament. Basically. Regulated, a new regulation called PSD, to payment, services, directive, - and that. Requires. Banks. To give. Access to registered. Third parties, to, bank account information so, that's, account. Balance, and, transactions. So being. Able to initiate a payment transaction, and to, look at transaction, history now of course that is only with, the consumers, consent, and. The. Perp the reason for this is to, drive innovation okay. And so. This is where instant payments, are. Really, getting popular it's really started, in in Europe, but. It's starting to spread in to other other regions. Of the, world as well so that's one of the drivers, is regulation, and another driver is competition. So, some. Fintechs, and. Some, forward-thinking. Financial. Institutions, are already, starting to open up access to their platforms, through, api's. And that is definitely, giving them a competitive advantage so. To. Remain competitive, we. Would advise that you do so as well so, that's the competition, part but, opportunity. There's, there's lots of opportunity, here for. Explaining. A few things here, increasing. Collaboration and, partnership. Opportunities. So the easier we make it to, integrate, with. Each other the. Better part more partnerships, we can have we, can start building ecosystems. And I'll talk a little bit, about the power of ecosystems. But definitely it's a lot about collaboration. It's also about faster. Time-to-market because. There's. Some really great assets, out there that third parties are building and that maybe, you know you're building that. I can use and you've, already written it you've exposed, it through a nice modern. Lightweight, API I can, integrate it very quickly I don't have to roll that myself now so I can much, more quickly get. Applications. And product into market it, also allows me to. Very. Easily, augment. Services. That I have so, for example very. Easy to integrate with our Watson, api's. So if you want to. Augment. Some. Product, that you have with maybe some natural, language understanding, or. Some, other type of machine learning that's. All just an API call, away so, this is this is really you know what this is a huge inflection, point that we're at right now that is making software. Easier. To build and. Driving. These partnerships, and as, I'll get, to in the next slide it's, really platforms. That are enabling, this to happen and the final thing is monetization. Opportunities. So. There's. Opening. Of new digital channels, so that's, that's part of what open banking is giving us so think, about the. Voice interfaces. Think about payments. From wearables, payments, from car. I say, anything that can talk HTTP. Should be able to initiate a payment, right so, what about data so. There's lots of dark data that we're all sitting on which. Is a great thing that we've held on to it for the day that, we could figure out how to harness it and today's. The day to do it so now here's brand-new, revenue streams that, we can make available very. Easily accessible, through. Api's again and a. Lot of this is about friction and friction lessness. So, by. Adopting these these open API sand and standards, we make it very easy for the.
Exchange Of value, that that we are exposing so, if there's, open banking then there must be closed banking, I don't know if this is really a term but, play, along with me so what, does closed banking, look like we probably all have experienced, this we might be experienced, it today we might have a mix of this but to, me close banking, is you have great assets, you have services, you, have data, and they're all locked away in a prison behind. A firewall, behind. Proprietary. Interfaces. Heavyweight. Protocols. Some. Of you probably remember you. Know some of the ISO, specifications. Or even soap and sam'l, these, were fine but nobody. In the right mind is going to use those from a mobile app right, or from, a voice. Interface they're, just too heavyweight, so. If. You're still you know you, exposing, only these kind of heavier, protocols. That interfaces, you you know there's more friction there for, partners. And third parties to integrate, with you. And. The last one I might want to mention here is about, composability. And. That is that is one of the ways that we get great acceleration nowadays. In in building assets by composition. Of api's. So. On IBM. Cloud we. Have a marketplace with. Our. Own some of our own api's, and. Multiple. Many fintax now including. Our friends I see in the audience here from from a create risk. Spanis, earn give shout out to a few you guys there we love you guys being there because you're bringing some awesome, capabilities, in to our, ecosystem. That, we, can help, our clients, integrate, with and we have great tools to make that happen on our cloud we, have a, number of starter, kits which, are completely, functional, full. Source code projects. In your, favorite language your favorite stack that a developer, can download can. Compile, and run within, five minutes and you can see some really incredible, incredibly. Powerful. Capabilities. That. Are, just. A two minute, integration. Away and I and if you don't believe me try it yourself, and, we're, gonna give, you the court in its value can do that at the end at the end of this talk so close banking, you don't have the benefit of comp of composition. Okay. So that's open. Versus, closed, banking, so before. I get to the solution I have to introduce one more term here and that is platform so, this. Is another, overused. Term everybody. Probably has their own definition so, for the purposes of this talk I'm gonna define it very simply. As an, environment, that facilitates the, exchange of, value. Between producers. And consumers and, what, I'm gonna do is I'm gonna explain it in, the terms of what most. Of us have in our pocket right now, which. Is one of the greatest platforms. Ever built, and it. Is the iPhone, so. I'm. Gonna here's, a quick quiz question, what is. The. Purpose of the iPhone, platform. What is the iPhone platform to. What. Is it for, we're. Making phone calls all, right I don't know about that I think it's about I think it's a platform for running mobile applications, that's. What the iPhone is and. Let's. Break that down in terms of the components of what that what makes that a platform, so first of all for a platform, you need some type of substrate. You need some type of runtime. That. Powers the platform, so I would, contend that the runtime, for, for. The iPhone is the iOS operating system. Okay so, okay that's my runtime platform. Secondly. I need a mechanism for extension. So, I need to empower an enable, third parties, to. Be able to add value onto the platform so what does that mean it means I have software, development, kits I have, documentation.
I Have, developer, support. I have, developer, conferences, that all assist, third parties in building apps. That. Run on this that, run on this platform now, why, would, a developer let's, say a third party developer spend. Spent, her time building. An application for, a platform, well, unless. You're doing it for the, benefit of humanity which, is great but, I happen to be a capitalist. So I'd like to be able to pay my bills I need. To get an exchange. Of value so the value that I'm bringing out to the platform is an application and what I want back is cold, hard dollars so, we need a marketplace. Right we need a marketplace, that is the, facilitator. Of that exchange of value, so. That's the third key aspect. Of a platform and then finally, the. Ecosystem. And this, is probably the hardest part so even if you have all three of those. Components. That I mentioned, it does not guarantee that you are going to have a successful, platform. Trust, me I have been there and it. Doesn't feel good when that happens so do not build, the field of dreams you, need to have a. You. Need to have a plan for, how you're going to attract, both. Producers, and consumers to, that platform okay so it's almost like a chicken and egg thing I remember. When I was in my earlier days doing. Software development it, was, you know Windows and, it was mac OS and. Again. Because I had to pay my college, bills, back I had to figure out which one was going to make more money so, it happened B windows because I had more customers, so, I built software that ran on Windows which. Attracted, more buyers, of Windows right, which Gen attracted, more developers, and that's what you need to get you need to get into that that cycle. Of. Attracting. Consumers. And producers. And. That's where you get the basically, you know what I call the platform, effect and, that's really the Nirvana that you're looking for here and then, I'll just mention if there's a couple other. Non-functional. Characteristics. Of a platform, and, that is scalability. Extensibility. Metcalfe's. Law kicks. In here this is this exponential, that the value of a platform. Increases. Exponentially, with the number of participants. In it okay and then, one of my favorite aspects of a platform is, emergent. Behavior, so, Twitter, is another platform of course and I. Always. Intrigued by the fact that the hashtag, was. Not invented. By Twitter, okay. The hashtag was invented, by somebody. Somebody, in Silicon Valley who was using Twitter and was, frustrated by not being able to keep track of messages, that were like related, what we would call thread and and.
He Discovered, that that. The you know the pound symbol the hashtag was a legal, character, in Twitter and it. He. And his friends started adopting it for that purpose and all of a sudden now it became this thing right so that's an emergent behavior, I love, those kind of things and that's part, of what a platform can drive so I spoke about the iPhone as being a platform uber. Is another platform. The. Difference here is I like to point out is that, the iPhone is a, purely technical. Technology. Platform, uber. Uses, technology. To facilitate, the platform, but, uber is really a platform, for, matching, riders. And drivers and. If you think about what, I mentioned before about needing, to get this right, mix of producers. And consumers think. About the problem uber has if they, have too many drivers and, not, enough riders, the. Drivers are gonna get frustrated, because they're all competing for the same riders. And they're gonna be wasting their time and they're gonna go to lift, or go do something else flip, it around the other way which you might have experienced, here in Vegas when, there's too, many. Riders. And not enough drivers, the riders get frustrated. Because, they, can't get a ride so, you. Know uber, plays around with surge pricing and things like that but um these, are things to keep in mind that my. Point here is that platforms, are not just technology. There's. This whole ecosystem, dynamic, that you need to take into and. Account as well okay. So we've. Talked about open, banking, we've, talked about platforms now, let's put it together and, talk, about an open banking, platform, so this, is just the same definition. That I gave before on, what a platform is but now let's cast it in the. Environment. Of a open, banking, platform, so, in an open banking platform what is the environment so it's, typically a pass.
Right A platform, as a service, such as such. As IBM. Cloud, with. Software development tools right. That make it easy for developers to, build assets. That, run on that platform so that's the environment, it also needs an exchange, so, what, we have is we have our our, FinTech, marketplace, and, in. That marketplace today it consists. Of api's, and, some. Data services, but i envision that any, digital. Asset that we, can figure out how to package. Meter. And, deploy. Belongs. In this, type of marketplace, so that can include. Trained. Neural networks for example it could include. Blockchain. Code. Smart. Contracts, okay so, so, that's the, that's the exchange is through this through this marketplace, and then. Who are the producers, and the consumers well. This is a two-sided marketplace, right and depending. On your, need you, could be a producer or you could be a consumer and you can flip positions. At any time so think about uber, many, times people. Who. Became, uber drivers, but, they were first uber riders, and maybe, some days they are riders and some days they're drivers so my point here is that you, can. Both be a producer, so you could be putting your api's, into, a marketplace as well as being a consumer, where you're consuming. IBM. Api's, and, and, some of our third-party api's, as, well so. Those, are just a very high-level uh, definition. Of what an open banking platform is and I'm gonna go it much deeper into what an architecture, would look like so. How do we go from, a, closed. Banking. To. An open banking platform, so. We think what's really critical, here are, our two two concepts, here one, is what we call core, to cloud. Easy. To say not. So easy to do that literally, means having. A you. Know connection, from. The externally, facing nice. Modern, restful api all, the way down into that grungy. Hard-working. Payment, platform, that runs your business, and. And. Making that connection all the way through and. In order to do that you must solve the last mile problem, there. Are lots of vendors, that are solving, I guess. Maybe we call it the first mile problem, which is exposing, an API, I, think, that's that's. A lot more, straightforward than solving, that last mile where you're where you actually have to connect, to a legacy platform, possibly. Using some of these these, heavier-weight. Protocols. That I that I mentioned before and. The. Third, part is about acceleration, okay, so, we want to help you accelerate, this, digital, digital transformation. From, a closed to, an open banking. Platform. So there's three core concepts. Again, that we want to mention here so first of all I did, not say that what we want to do is rip and replace so. It's. Been tried it, may work in certain cases I. Think it's kind of like. Changing. The tires on a car doing, 85 miles an hour on the New Jersey Turnpike I wouldn't. Recommend it, maybe. You can do it but the tact that we're taking instead, is leave. The, legacy platforms. Where, they are for now and instead. We are going to put a layer on top, that. Is going to kind of act as a time machine it's. Going to translate from the legacy. Era into a modern, you, know container, based micro service architecture, API. F ID layer. So. That now your, core platforms. Are now being surfaced, as micro, services once, we have them there we. Can compose them into, different workflows, and then, expose them as api's. And, I'll show you an. Architecture. Diagram, of how. We do that and another, key aspect here, is that. What. We are building here is, a is. A product, okay this is not about a, a, bespoke. Implementation. This is about a product that that, perhaps. Might have 30% of, this this, bridging, from close to open in, the, box already and. And. So, therefore you're not starting, really from from, a white. Blank. Whiteboard okay, and. This is all about acceleration. So. This, is a, really. High-level overview, of what the what the architecture, looks like and again I just have to caveat, this by saying this, is something we're building in the labs I, can't. Comment on when. Or if it will be available, but, this, is the embodiment of what what, I just discussed so. We. Think of it like this at the bottom there is your. Are your core systems, okay and then, atop of that is this. This integration, layer which. I'm. A big fan of kubernetes, so. You.
Might Have heard that we have a great platform, called IBM cloud private, which, is a which is a great implementation. Of kubernetes, so, we are leveraging we're, a ledger leveraging. IBM. Cloud private, and. So. We have a I, guess. You call it like a foundation, layer, first. That sits on top of, IBM. Cloud private and that takes care of kind, of all the security. Orchestration. Data. Governance. Workflow. Kind of all of that non. Differentiating. You know. Framework. That you need to power a modern, micro. Service based platform. But. Work it's really interesting, are, these vertical, packs that, you see in these kind of vertical swimlanes, and that's where the business function, it functionality. Is so, on, the left side you see like a payment pack so, what would be inside of a payment pack well it would be at, the top, it's those. Modern. Modern, API. So if if we're doing instant payments in Europe these would be PSD, to if you. Want to define your own api's, these would be your api's, and. Then remember though it needs to get connected to that, legacy. Platform, at the bottom and that's kind of where this magic, is of what. We're building in. A very, extensible. Very. High throughput very, scalable. Manner and we're. Taking a very. Incremental approach as well so, I would recommend, that you. Know you think about a business case that's very important, for you to, you. Know an. Opportunity let's, say for leverage for exposing data or, for exposing one of your your, you know closed. Platforms. Today. Payments. Is a very popular one we. Think you know lending, is another, very important one that's coming along as well but, kind of kind of pick these golden, threads to. Go all the way from core to cloud and, you. Know start with one or two of those and then move horizontally across. And as time goes on we will be releasing more. And more of these packs and I. Also want to mention that, this. Is also where, our, fin. Tech ecosystem comes. Into play okay so, we talked about getting, Urich. So if you're an fi you, are exposing api's. We. Would love to talk to you about getting. Your services, into. This, platform that I'm showing here as. Well as we'll, be leveraging our third-party. Partners too so, let me give you an example so. With. Micro services, by definition, each. Micro service does a tiny bit of work and usually it's not enough for to, execute, a complete business process, so let's say the business process, is account, opening and let's, say that the workflow to do that involves, kyc, AML. Maybe. There's an optional, step that does a social media check or. Check some other type of alternative data source and then. Finally, you, need to talk to the core platform and do the actual account provisioning. So. Each of those steps is kind, of a placeholder that. During, configuration, you will define. Where. Is the code that executes that, that. Step, so let's start with kyc, so. Do, you have a you. Might have your own kyc, platform that you want to use okay great we'll wire it in or do, you want to use one you know maybe some enhanced kyc. Api. That one of our third-party, provider. Exposes. Through our marketplace so, kind of in a drag-and-drop you're, able to bring. Components, that you've created that third parties have created that iBM has created, and again, this is through that composition, effect.
Very, Quickly build these workflows okay, so if you think about what we're doing is we're taking these monolithic, applications. We're, deconstructing, them, in the microservices, and then we're reconstructing. Them into, into, business, processes, that, then. Gets surfaced, as as lightweight api's. So. This is what this. Is what we're building in. The labs right now. So. How. Do we get you engaged in this process we'd like to start talking to you about this. Now. And. We actually have a process, this. Is the same type of process that we use for blockchain, which has been very, successful so. We recommend, this. Type of flow so I can't. Do any justice to what we're building in you, know in a form like this I'd love to come, and sit with you for a half a day or so we can go into kind of a deeper briefing, maybe. You could bring some. Technical folks we could show you the technical architecture brings. Some line of business folks and and. Start thinking about how this might fit into your, strategy so if, assuming. That goes well we, would then set up a one, or a two day workshop where. We would actually you know start whiteboarding. You. Know pit you tell us what you what what are some of the most important. Services. You like to expose or problems. Or challenges or, opportunities that, you see that this could help with and we. Would kind of iterate, through that and say wow. That one, might be a little bit too big to bite, off right now what, else do you have but, the idea would be we, would come out of this session with, maybe one or two ideas, of. Projects. That, could, be achieved, in a, 8 to 12 week engagement. And I, would pick something that is, meaningful, right, we don't want to do a hello world but. You, know should be meaningful and it. Should be tractable, we and you know with a high high pretty, high level of confidence, that we could get it completed like dude don't try to put you. Know a man on the Sun or anything like that just let's pick something the, purpose is that we get to understand. Your your. Problem space you get to understand, our technology, and we, start doing this in an, iterative, a, gelato, fashion, and then hopefully, these. Are the result of this is that. You. Become comfortable, with our platform and we actually talked about putting in in production, I should, mention one thing I forgot to say, going, back to the fact that this, is all container, technology that. Were that we're using, and. I mentioned IBM cloud private that's part of our hybrid. Philosophy. So. This. Gives, you ultimate optionality. In where you run your workloads, right so you're not making a decision up front that you, are then bound to. You. Know in perpetuity so if you were more comfortable warning running. Certain workloads, on Prem because it's dealing with PII, or other sensitive data. That's. Great you can you can run it on IBM cloud private run, it on Prem you might then decide that you, know we could we can get better. Efficiencies. If we, start moving some of these workloads to the public cloud and we, just move those containers, to the IBM container, service right and we can mix and match so, lots, of option ality there. You. Know which i think is very important we also run, containers, on our on our mainframes, as well so we, really we, really kind of have that unique capability. So. Why, do, this with IBM, so you. Know we think that we are the right partner for this for. A number of reasons, one is that we are already. You. Know we're very knowledgeable, obviously in this financial. Services space we're, very knowledgeable, knowledgeable, with your, technology.
And. We. Are forming, this ecosystem. Kind. Of as a service, to you so, it's. A very time-consuming. Intensive. Activity. To recruit. The, best fintechs. Out there because, there are there are so many so, as a service, to you we. Are you, know providing. A curated, marketplace, and if you go on to our. Cloud. For financial, services you. Will see an, ever-growing list of, assets, that are in there both from, IBM, as well, as from our third parties, and very. High. Quality documentation. You, can instantly experiment. With the api's and. In your browser for example and they're. All high quality so that's another reason, to go with us and the third thing is really about. Acceleration. And that's. Why, I wanted to mention that what we were building here is a product right it's a it's a it's, the foundation, around which. We. Will help you accelerate, your digital transformation. In. This, in this very kind of you. Know iterative, and opinionated. Fashion, so, that I just think it's a lot easier to, to. You. Know have a strawman of, an architecture, a strawman of a product that we can then start discussing rather, than all showing up in a room with, a blank whiteboard I. Think this just accelerates. Getting. You know time to market. So. What, can you do next the immediate next next, actions I would take, a you know snapshot, or write down that, that URL there that's. Where you can actually take a look at this. Catalog. Of the. Assets, that we have and and. View our starter, kits as well these are these prepackaged, full, fully, worked source. Code projects, your. Developers, will could, be up and running on them it literally, in five minutes they can download the code they can run it locally they can use our DevOps. Tool. Toolchains. Deploy, it to IBM cloud literally. In minutes okay and then, you know shoot us an email and we, can start. Getting scheduled, perhaps some of these initial, engagements, we'd love to come and talk to you in, in kind of a more. You know focused. Meetings. And figure, out some next steps from there so. You. Know in conclusion, I hope. That kind. Of gave you a little feel for what is going on in open banking, and platforms. Again, I think platforms. Are going to transform, financial, services along with other industries, and it's. Not just about the technology so, when you're doing a transformation. And you're, using platforms, there's multiple, other.
Complexities. That you have to deal with a couple that I'll mention very quickly one. Of them is culture, so. You're. Going to you know one of the strongest forces in the in the universe is, inertia. And I. Think we all know that that, it's, very hard to convince people to, change because. It's already working right it's already organ but the horse and carriage was working for a really long time too right so, times. Change and, one. Of the forcing actions here are the fintechs, are not slowing down right so, you. Know there, is a forcing action there to move faster, but we, have to do it in a controlled way that we don't break the bank literally, all right so we, have to find that right balance that right risk tolerance, and you have to have the right people so that's the second second, thing I'd point out here is talent, talent. Is I, think really underestimated. As. As. A key component of success, in moving, to a you, know a modern, platform. Approach, different. Skill sets are involved, you know you have you have you, have DevOps. You have you know building, a micro service application, you, can build a, really. Really, horrible micro, service. Architecture. Application, that's way worse than a monolith, in many, ways if you don't do it correctly so we have the expertise, that we can help you not only would guide you on the architecture. But we also can help you stand up agile. Development teams if you're, introducing, agile, into. Your into your organization, a week. We can help you with that, and. Especially some of the larger institutions you. Know spinning, up a couple of agile teams if. It's, it's so, much straightforward to me it's mostly common sense by the way agile but it. Gets a little bit more difficult, when you try to spin, it up you, know in an institution, the size of a large bank or or of an IBM, so we, are we are doing this we live this and we would be happy to help you with this on you know that, as part of the journey as well so. My. Time is up I think you, know I really, appreciate you all coming out and listen to this. We. Don't have time for questions but I'll be hanging around a little bit and enjoy. The rest of your evening and and go enjoy the concerts, and the rest of the conference, thank you very much. You.
2018-03-30 16:12
