Using Systems To Grow Your Consulting Business with David Allara

hey everyone it's michael zaperski and today i'm with david ayara david welcome hey michael great to be here how are you doing very well i know it's early over there in uh in sydney but uh glad that you are able to join us uh so david for those who aren't yet familiar with you uh they're gonna learn a lot more about you and your company here today but you're the managing director of connectus uh audiovisual technology firm and you lead a team of technology consultants engineers designers uh project manager managers and trainers and you guys have worked in over a thousand spaces uh throughout australia uh really to put in different audio visual systems for the government of australia uh companies like ernest and young ing and and many others so i want to start off uh by actually going back a little bit in time how did you get into kind of the audio visual and and tech space take us to prior to starting connect what was uh what was david doing well um i guess it depends how far you want to go back there michael um i was originally in a very different industry i was in the refrigeration industry so we'll probably want to go that far back but um i did learn a lot of lessons in in that experience of about 10 years working in italy and the us which i think i've transferred you know some of that knowledge and uh and experience into and creating a consulting business but you know how i got into [Music] uh i guess the audio visual industry itself is you know i came back to australia after being abroad for you know uh 10 or so years and so i was just looking for a job really and kind of just fell into the industry there was a sales position going i needed a job and i just took it uh kind of liked it straight away moved straight away after about six months into it to another larger company you know doing um doing sales and marketing in uh in that uh in that firm got more and more of a taste for it and i could see that consulting was kind of like the the place to be for me at least in in the industry so i then just looked look for an opportunity in in consulting which i eventually found in 2007 towards the end of 2007 right and started uh started there so what was that what was the calling for you i mean you've you've at that point had experiences in multiple different organizations working as an employee uh what was the calling what was going on in your mind in your heart that was telling you yeah it's time for me to kind of go out on my own and and build something well i've always been that way to be honest with you so even in the in the firms that i've worked for uh for a longer period of time i've had a lot of um or at least my managers or the owners of those companies have given me a lot of free rein you might say to sort of build something internally with it within that than that company so for example in in the refrigeration business there i was very young in my early 20s when i started there but you know the owner he sent me to new york and said okay just go go start up the uh the north american branch by myself and that was perfect for me because that's the kind of thing that i like i like those challenges i like to do it by myself um and then sort of um you know not be constrained by bureaucracy or red tape or layers of management i've never been able to operate in those areas and it was the same in um in audiovisual industry in my first company in the consulting world you know the the manager there or the owner actually i should say he said look we've got a small av team here um like to grow it so i was just giving the opportunity to to grow it and yeah there wasn't really a lot of checking in it was more like just just go do your thing and um so it's almost like being an entrepreneur inside a company if that makes sense in two occasions there and so then it was just a very easy way to move into doing it for yourself what do you what do you think the that the owner of that refrigeration company saw in you in in really taking like a leap of faith sending you uh across the world uh to you know to new york uh to open up kind of the business over there like what were the characteristics or criteria or just what do you what did he see in you what did you demonstrate to him that gave him so much faith to uh to make that investment into you i'm always being quite good at sales and you know prior to doing that i was working um you know for him for about three four years doing international sales so he was sending me around the world anyway by myself and i was you know meeting with senior executives and closing you know large deals in you know selling lots of fridges you might say to put it simply as i was getting those numbers getting you know uh some success there without too much guidance so i think he must have felt like okay um i'll give him an opportunity um i asked for it um i kept asking for it and he said all right fine um i guess persistence and maybe showing ability to sell because i guess if you can't sell you can't really start a business in the first place i mean that's a really important point so let's kind of go back in time a little bit or kind of stay where where we are right now uh because i think you are right there there are probably a lot of lessons from that time in the refrigeration business you i mean you're talking about about sales and that you you have uh experience and a track record of being successful selling uh but but you you know in coming to to know you david and the work that we've done together over the last little while uh you're not the the typical hard charging you know try and twist your arm uh you know knock you over sales person like that's just not your style right by any stretch of the imagination so when you look at and kind of boil down what you think has actually made you an effective sales person what is that like what what's the secret sauce that that you if you had to teach somebody to just become really good at sales and you took the best practices that you've accumulated over the years what are some of those key principles that have served you or served you very well in the past but also have served you well now uh you know over the last several years of building connectus as your own business look i think there's probably um just an innate skill i guess that i've had which i didn't even realize was um the reason i was being successful and that is to actually listen to people um i've never been a big talker or you know overtaking conversations or sort of talking over people you know as you say twist people's arms i uh more interested in listening uh to what what they actually want what's important to them i mean it even goes back to you know when i was you know very young 15 16 you know selling selling things in a in a sporting goods store uh you just listen to people what they want um why they want it um why they don't want something you know you're trying to figure out what's important to them and then you just help them achieve it it's not it's not very difficult when you sort of boil it down like that but i think that's probably just the way i approach it i mean i think i find that very interesting a lot a lot of people aren't comfortable with the idea of sales and selling where it just feels like it's a bad word or makes them um you know just yeah they cause a lot of hesitation and kind of resistance on their part uh but you said something that i think a lot of people will resonate with which is the idea of listening uh and you can be a great listener but what you've kind of complimented that with or combined that with is is once you've heard what people want it sounds like you're also then very good at coming back to them and saying well based on what you've told me based on what we've talked about here's the recommended next step so here's some ideas some options take me through like what would that look like for you even in your business today or or back in the day what were you doing like if you met somebody at a trade show at a conference at a meeting you've asked them great questions you've identified through the conversation what they want what they don't want what's your go-to next step like how quickly do you go back to them do you make recommendations right then and there what's the process that you found to work best well there's a lot of things which uh you know you and sam teach which resonate with me and it's kind of been you know my approach for a while um definitely that concept of peeling back the the layers of the onion uh you know for maybe some listeners that have heard that before i i really uh i really believe that that's that's key okay so i'm i'm constantly asking why um you know i really i really want to get to the truth of the matter here you know what's that what's the core what's that there's there's usually some sort of an issue to solve or some sort of a goal to um to get to that you know a customer has and you know customers or potential customers will all kind of be saying i need this on either so i'll do you really and i challenge it um so not being afraid to challenge not being afraid to ask the why and then another y and then another y why is that important to you what does that really mean to you um that's when you're going to have your most success when you really get to the true crux of the matter because then people will actually maybe uncover something they didn't realize was important and then they'll hold it a lot more true or seriously and and be wanting to do something about it when it's more surplus level discussions or maybe there's a misconception on the part of the customer or potential customer that's when things probably i find go off track or there's not really a lineup to do any business together and it's usually a mistake to move forward and so once you then identified that or you kind of you know you've gone to the the core of the end into the heart of the matter again what are you doing are you coming at them and saying well here's what we should do next in that exact that same conversation that same time are you following up the next day with an email are you following the proposal what's kind of the best practices and approach that you've been you've been using or you've just found to work uh you know in in the most effective way well we have a process and yeah it usually starts with you know doing a needs assessment that's more about what i was talking about earlier you know peeling back the layers and if they are serious and there is a problem or a goal which they're trying to achieve then it might take it to another step definitely want to try and be speaking with a decision maker then so i want to uncover who is a decision maker are you the decision maker great if not is there someone else okay let's let's get that person or group involved in in discussions um and we'll you know reaffirm what we've learned in the previous conversation um with that person or group of people and then um you know assuming there's still an interest to move forward and we've definitely uncovered a problem and there's definitely a fit for us to work with them because that's that's also key that's what i'm looking for i'm looking for opportunities to disqualify you know potential opportunities to work with someone if there's red flags or just doesn't doesn't seem to be something that we can we can help them with um but assuming everything lines up then it usually goes to some sort of a um a quote or a fee proposal but by then you you've generally understood um you're on the same page you've understood the scope you've understood how you know we could help them and what the outcome of that help might look like and so really it starts to become more of a formality of okay this is the commercial agreement so this is the scope and then we sort of move forward from there yeah you share with me david that um you do have a very structured kind of sales process that you take clients through or prospective clients through uh and you mentioned that at times when people on your team or just anytime you veer away from that process or don't really like you know stay true to it uh the results like you can see that something does break down how how have you developed that or how do you kind of think about your sales process are you constantly updating it um just wondering like what your mindset is around the sales process itself well i've learned over the years that um selling really is about a process um and that's probably a misconception that you know many many listeners might have it isn't about you know being liked or being you know the greatest conversationalist or you know going out to dinner with people every night it is actually just about having a process and following the process which sounds pretty boring but it's when you have the right systems in place and just follow those systems like the bouncing ball um you'll be amazed at the results you can get that way but as soon as you don't follow the process it's just like manufacturing something you know um you're not going to get that car at the end of the line if you've missed some steps if you haven't got the doors on it or i don't know there's no tyres if you skip steps unfortunately in a process like that it generally goes off track or you you may be you know not quite aligned and you move forward with the wrong solution and it's not quite where it could be um for yourself and the customer the work that you do can feel i would imagine to to your you know to buyers and prospective clients at times complex right i mean you're dealing with you're helping them to set up auto audio visual systems inside of offices these days right hybrid types of offices because people are working from home and around the world um there's a lot of different technology uh providers a lot of different solutions so i i could imagine people kind of feeling a sense of complexity whatever you found kind of makes the biggest difference or is most important for you to actually be able to communicate the value that your firm provides because any company could just go well yeah i think we just need to you know buy this television get the speaker get this technologies but but you're adding a whole other layer of value on top of that that would be really challenging for them to do well themselves how do you communicate that that value how do you communicate kind of differentiation between what you're providing and maybe what others provide or what a company might just try and figure out themselves in-house if they want to work with you that's a great question and it probably comes down to the specific consulting piece michael okay so if you don't do a consulting piece um it's it's likely going to be a poor result but i'll explain that further i think the business that we're in is is not really so much the audio visual business we're really in the business of solving problems or helping people achieve goals so it's more of a business type um discussion that that i think i'm having or you know my team are having when we're talking to customers it's like okay what like i said earlier we peel back the last year what's important to you but none of those conversations are ever technical conversations in fact i encourage my team to never even talk technical right so the moment you start to talk about you know this widget and that one you're already losing them they don't understand that it's not their day-to-day um you need to focus on what's important to them you know can we get improved efficiency um you know from from our teams can our teams collaborate better um can the learning in our schools be improved these types of more sort of business-related tangible objectives that these organizations have that's what they're focused on so that's what we focus on now the fact that we use you know av technology as a medium to enable those outcomes and results to happen is really just a byproduct does that make sense yeah i mean i think that's a really fantastic point because it's an area that i think many consultants struggle with where they tend to focus or place too much focus on the the inputs the things that they're going to do and their methodology or the tools that they're using but what the client really wants right is a specific outcome and so as you said the technology is really what enables the outcome but the issues that get the ideal client excited are the things that they're dealing with you know they go into a meeting in your case let's say and all of a sudden whatever they're using to to bring people together into that meeting the technology breaks down well that's a big waste of productivity that's it's a big loss of revenue and income and frustration and so it's all these things i think that's that's the lesson or kind of the idea that for all of our listeners right now and everyone joining us to think about your specific business right and the focus should not be so much just on the things that you're you're doing right it's like what is the outcome that is created or the lack of outcome if those things aren't done so that was a really great example of that i want to talk also and just kind of explore david because a lot of your business has come through referrals through kind of having a network an ecosystem that you've set up right you have uh relationships with people in different government agencies you have relationships with people in large professional services firms how do you think about relationships how do you think about first of all setting up those relationships and then what do you do to to maintain them to kind of strengthen them over time like are you using any specific approach are using technology what have you kind of found are some of the the best ideas around there what's been working best for you to cultivate and strengthen really meaningful relationships that you know will or hope will in the long term generate more business i wish i had more time to dedicate to relationships as my uh that's my quick answer to that question but something must be working because we're we're having success but we've gotten to the size that we are at the moment uh almost purely on um repeat business referrals uh doing good work uh it's probably the summary we we haven't really had much of a marketing um you know kind of a system or there hasn't been a lot of outbound going on um sorry in the beginning like i started this company with jonathan my business partner in 2013 i've always been responsible for for the sales and sure in 2013 14 15 there was a lot of knocking on the doors and you know walking the pavement um you know trying to open opportunities absolutely but once those opportunities started to to come in that this in small usually small projects people give you small opportunities to to show what you can do um you know in most most cases we seem to do a good job um make sure that we have you know understood the requirements and delivered on the requirements and continue to follow up and then just come back with giving us more opportunities the trust is built you know again they had a problem they had a goal we helped them achieve it and and so they they sort of said well let's let's work again with connectors i mean we're happy with that yes basic business right what do you think david has made one thing that you do that that your competitors or alternatives in the marketplace don't do like what's a common mistake that you see people making in your industry that you are very intentional in in doing your best to make sure that you don't make that same mistake look i mean in terms of you know maybe sales and marketing i i can't really speak for others but we definitely have an intentional approach of long-term partnerships okay so um we don't really look at a project after project after project i mean that's exhausting and it's no way to grow a business we we look at trying to build up long-term partnerships with with customers and always looking for you know ways that we can help them whether it's paid or not paid advice is not really the point um it's more about the longevity of the relationship and we found that to be a pretty successful strategy how do you commu do you communicate that uh actively to to clients and to prospects like you use that language in your conversations in terms of long-term partnerships and i'd love to just kind of pull back uh you know the cover there a little bit more to try and understand how are you taking that that idea and actually implementing it uh two clients or two prospective clients probably could communicate it a little bit better but maybe it's more in our actions it's just like internally the team knows that that's what we're all about you know it's about the long-term partnership so i think you know innately in in each of their minds they understand that whatever it is they're doing it it's not about you know that one particular project it's about the long-term relationship um and so they can make decisions based on that do you know what i mean like right it's not like okay well this project has x amount of money so i can't can't sort of go beyond that money on this project because uh might affect profitability that's not the mentality we have the opposite it's more like okay what is this customer saying they need they need um you know a little bit more assistance on this project so we're going to give that to them no matter what um or they might sort of you know call up um there's no engagement going on at that particular time but they need some help we absolutely helped them out so it's it's as as i say maybe coming from within so talking to the team making sure the team understands what it is that we're all about and why we want to have longer term relationships and and then they just sort of through their actions um demonstrate that that's incredibly powerful uh so you now i mean today you have a good sized team how do you do that how are you taking it sounds like almost you know your values your belief system your mindset around business you're very much relational uh right relationship based not transactional uh how do you make sure that everyone on your team understands those values are you doing a sit-down meeting is it a retreat is it a handbook that you give to people when they first become part of the team what what does that look like at connectus yeah it's probably um just uh a bunch of things really um yeah we you know we get together and uh as a team we you know we we work um on the we have a company vision and you know it's not it's not sort of someone at the top it's not like me writing it or jonathan and i my business partner writing it and saying here you go follow it it's the opposite it's it's like well we don't have all the answers so let's just work together as a team and um what should our vision be you know and we go through a step-by-step process and you know put our ideas together we've worked with professionals to do this earlier earlier on um now we're a little bit better at it and we can kind of do it ourselves um but we constantly challenge that so every three months we have a quick review of that um every six months it might be a bit of a deeper review and every year deeper again so that's one example um i mean look we have uh five core values which again we sort of came up with as a team you know we had a competition and spent a bit of time on it made it kind of fun yeah and every every week you know we we have a meeting uh where we sort of plan out uh or at least talk about what are we doing this week what are our wins from last week and we tie in these these company values uh like i might talk about i had a win last week and it lines up with these core values does that make sense and and the rest of team members do the same thing so we're kind of celebrating something that happened last week and how it tied in with the values so there's this constant um i don't know reinformation of what we're about while we're about it um it's helped us become like a tight family i suppose i mean we are only a small company of 19 people but um at the same time if you don't work on that uh you know it it's a little bit it's a little bit of a different outcome no i mean i think that's it's very important we've we've been talking a lot more about that as well here consulting success you know with our team and just the importance of having values and making sure that everyone understands what those values are because they speak not only to how we operate as a team as a family internally but also externally right when you're very clear on on your values and for example the kind of values that you want to have in in the clients that you work with then you can communicate them more right you can kind of weave them into your content into your marketing into your messaging and what's interesting about that is we've certainly found i don't i don't know what you've kind of seen david but when you start to put those those values out there you tend to actually attract people who who really kind of share some of those values as well has that been your experience as well to a degree yeah i would say so i would say so um it is it is almost like um a way of sort of lining up with who you who you do want to work with and who you don't want to work with and also for the team like you know for me um one of the most important things that that i hold you know to myself as is what i'm trying to achieve it you know by creating a company is actually having staff team members that come to work each day because they like what they're doing they like what they're a part of you know they feel like it's something worthwhile you know that's that's one of my main goals i'm not really a money guy i'm not trying to you know get rich and create this huge empire i'm actually more about helping people so i like to help customers and i like to help staff right so yeah yeah for me if if i can have stuff that are empowered and sort of you know like these these core values if they truly believe in them and then i think it just it becomes um outward facing like you say it's like yeah we believe in this they connect us and the staff truly do and then they can also pick and choose almost who they want to work with um does that make sense like because it it's just not fun working with with customers or you know organizations that aren't really um aligned with you everything seems to be a struggle it's just not fun so yeah oh yeah there's plenty of business out there we try and find business that is you know more fun to work with yeah right so here you are today david about uh 19 kind of team members uh at uh connect us what have you found to be most helpful in ensuring that that everyone remains focused productive uh making making progress is there a specific like framework or approach um or is what do you what do you do to ensure that people are actually making progress and and moving things forward that things aren't kind of falling off the tracks or the things are not getting delayed is there a meeting that you use is there a specific you know approach to productivity what do you guys use internally that's that's working best for you oh yes definitely so it's uh nine to ten so not 19. not yet anyway but let's say 10 round numbers now we definitely have a framework we have a rhythm of meetings um so every day we have um just a quick stand-up meeting and everyone participates in that no matter where they are so they can join you know via flyer video call if they're on site um we also have um you know one of our our team members santiago is kind of managing the projects and overseeing all the projects we have a good software which we use to to do that as well and so he he sort of uses that and also his time just to make sure everyone's working on what they should be um each week each day uh and and delivering the um you know specific uh things that we've we've agreed to deliver for our customers that's probably the day-to-day right i would say and how we manage that very good and then so when you look at your your business today and kind of the landscape what do you feel most excited about right now well it's it's one of those industries to be honest um it's it's an industry that's constantly changing so there's always something new to learn and i think that's what definitely a lot of the team uh is excited about you know they're constantly learning new things new ways of doing things new technology um and once i'm not you know super passionate about the the tech i'm more you know more driven by um helping customers achieve their business outcomes and um and having you know happy customers happy stuff that that's more where i'm at yeah um when you have those those two things hand in hand though you know when you're a customer and you see all this change like how can you possibly know um what to do there there's just so many choices so many options but if if you can have someone like our company that can help you understand these options and how they can you know deliver strong outcomes or you know solve problems for you in a meaningful way um it's like a nice matchup if that makes sense so it's it's a it's an ever-evolving space um with great opportunities for businesses of all kinds to take advantage of and you know we can help them do that all right so now let's flip it for for a moment um challenges what do you feel right now is is the biggest kind of challenge that you're you're actively working on well for us personally i mean it's it's probably um it's probably just working on staff to be honest um that's been a big challenge for us lately um you know just trying to find it's a relatively small labor market in in australia in in our industry and that's a challenge not just for me but for many companies in the industry whether they be consultants or actual um installation companies or even even the vendors um so that's been a bit of a bit of a challenge we're exploring some some different avenues here zealand how to structure our business right um but the other thing is is the marketing and that's what we've been working with you uh and sam on quite closely over a few months is you know trying to get our outreach going um and and just uh enable us to grow a little bit uh beyond what we can grow through you know referrals and and doing great work yeah i wanna just take us back for a moment to to this idea of team when you started the business uh were you very intentional like did you already see the future of and and know that you wanted to build this to be beyond yourself or did you think no yeah i want to you know start as jonathan and i will be the two of us maybe one more person like how did you envision the business when you first started yeah we didn't plan probably that far ahead to be honest with you um we're both working together in in this other consulting firm and you know sort of building a business within a business for someone else and we just looked at each other and said why are we doing this for um why don't we just break away and and do it for ourselves i mean that's what we're doing anyway yeah and it was it was a relatively quick set of conversations and and that was that we we moved away and started it so um i think we've you know it's back in 2013 you know eight years later we've learnt a lot definitely we've worked with um business coaches and attended uh you know different types of courses and you know now working with yourselves um we've definitely learned a lot along the way uh about planning and and looking forward and you know um back then i think it was more just we'll probably and that's in that situation maybe where a lot of your listeners are sort of we almost bought ourselves a job um and hadn't really thought about it too much more than that but as as we work to try to make it more of a business we put structures in place we learn about what that means um and and now we actually have a business which is which is great and then moving forwards um we want to obviously um you know grow it so that myself and jonathan can step out a little bit and it becomes an actual business without relying so much on on ourselves yeah i mean you're right david that's that is a bigger challenge for many consultants um when as you've been going down that path what are maybe two things that you've done that you would say have freed you up the most or given you a lot more time to spend you know thinking on the business being strategic and not just doing all the delivery and work yourself are there maybe give me two things that stand out for you as yeah these were game changers for us yeah we just probably sat down and and looked at um simple things you know like um organizational structure so what what's going to be the org structure next year what's it going to what's it going to be in three years what's it going to be in five years that's the basic stuff and what you know what um what kind of numbers in terms of um you know revenue expenses you know that that kind of thing what does that look like um are there going to be multiple offices you know how do we need to hire to to go from one org structure to to the next one in that period of time um once you sort of you know put that bit of plan in place it's not that hard to join the dots and you know what you're working towards so it's not difficult it's just a matter of taking the time to do it um you might need some help from an expert to do it in the first kind of first couple of times but once you get a feel for it it's pretty straightforward was there any hesitation or reluctance on your part as you started you know working towards making that shift going from from the two of you really doing everything to to building the team to now at a place where you're looking you know even bigger picture even more strategic of how how can this business operate you know without as much of your direct involvement and just freeing yourself up up more any mindset shifts anything that you were kind of reluctant around and uh and and you've got past it now or you've you've seen the light at the end of the tunnel anything that stands out to you there that i'm just wondering in terms of other listeners who might be facing or coming close to that same situation uh anything that you could share with them look uh from my perspective i i just didn't want to be doing um you know the the day-to-day um all the time so when i say day-to-day you know there's there's so much sort of you use the analogy of ten ten dollars an hour hundred dollars an hour a thousand dollars an hour yeah i was just sick of doing so much ten dollars now hundred hundred dollars an hour work um just didn't make sense to me i wasn't getting joy from that uh so for me personally i just wanted to um train people to to do that uh for me um so that i could be doing more exciting work i mean i much prefer to be out meeting with with customers um whether they're new or existing uh understanding what's going on in their world how we can help them you know have those business level type conversations and then you know hand it back to the rest of the team to to execute on you know different types of activities or solutions we might have come up with and and for jonathan um similar really um you know he's really passionate about about the tech and loves the new technology and learning about it and he's probably you know key to the business in that regard and that he can if he can be freed up to learn more about that and sort of improve his knowledge and pass that on and not both to externally to customers and also internally to the team that really helps develop in in both directions and that's a a place where he'd much rather be rather you know instead of doing that sort of ten dollar now 100 an hour work yeah i guess it gets tiring and boring after a while so it was very easy for us to quickly decide we wanted to you know change direction yeah i mean it's amazing how much uh time people spend on those lower value tasks without always noticing it and you know it's very easy to fool yourself into believing that yeah you know it doesn't take me that long i can do it faster than teaching someone else but all these things compound they add up and when you look at it over the period of a week or a month or a year uh you spend a lot of time doing things that really aren't creating much value for the business and in many cases things you don't really enjoy and so it can require some courage and taking a bit of a leap of faith to either bring people on or start to delegate or outsource or say no to things that aren't uh conducive to to real growth or just helping to to make a greater impact but if you're a long term focus then you you want to trust that feeling of knowing that it is signed even though it might be hard it's something that you should do uh and you've done that uh very well david the other thing i want to ask you here before we wrap up is uh you're always learning you know that's one thing i really admire about you that you're always looking at at ways to gain new insights new information new perspectives that you can use you know to share with your team with clients and just for you to become a stronger person yourself what's one book that you've read recently that that you found uh just enjoyable or really valuable and helpful for for the business well um i would say um and actually let me just add one one thing here it doesn't have to be a business book it could be just something that you've enjoyed personally let's open it up just anything that that has really resonated with you recently well there is a short little one which uh your brother sam put on to me and another i don't know i i really liked it it was it's called the 25-year framework and it's it's been it's been a book that you know i've shared with lots of people everyone in the team um and you know some friends and family as well because it just it just really hit home with me that what's the rush okay what is the rush there is no rush um you can take time to just smell the roses and enjoy what you're doing enjoy the process it's i'm a results focused guy always have been just like my father grandfather is just italian background that's that's how it is um and that that little book there's not a lot of hard book or a long book to read because i'm not a huge reader but i really liked the message the overall message which was a 25-year framework yeah not a one year 25 years so that's plenty of time to get where you want to be going to and and sort of give it's given me that that sort of time to uh or feeling at least like i can breathe i can create space in my life to do you know lots of things so yeah that'd be my book great book uh that's by dan sullivan and then another book on a similar topic that uh i think people would find interesting uh is the the infinite game by simon sinek uh similar concept uh very powerful when you when you really look at it and exactly how you're saying means very often many of us are very hard on ourselves we try and cram a lot in and judge ourselves based on success and failure what happens in a very short period like a month or a quarter or a year uh but for most of us if we're playing the long-term game we have plenty of time and it doesn't mean that you don't try and develop yourself doesn't mean that you don't try and accelerate or to see results sooner uh but just know that you know if you don't hit that one thing that you're hoping to hit right away like it's okay you'll figure out just be consistent you know keep looking at ways to to improve to optimize uh to get better and and enjoy the journey right that's that's what it's i think a big message that for all entrepreneurs we're so often focused on on outcomes and results that we we forget to enjoy the journey so that's a really great reminder david so before we wrap up where can people go to to learn more about you about your company you guys put a lot of great content videos articles uh that i think is relevant for anyone in organizations these days given uh how many of us are are working in a hybrid type of situation or using technology in our own businesses or with clients so give us may the one place david that people should go to uh to learn more well connectors.com.iu is where you'll find uh you know everything including those those resources you mentioned otherwise on linkedin um my linkedin profile has has pretty much all that as well yeah okay we'll have all that linked up in the show notes but again let's connect us with a k so k o n n e c t u s right dot com you said com.eu that's right yes okay all right i just wanted to get that domain that they don't mean they're correct so um yeah highly encourage everyone to check it out again lots of great resources there david thanks so much for coming on thank you michael really appreciate it

2021-08-07 14:34

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