Trading with Pivot Points | Trading Futures
good day everyone john mcnichol here and welcome to another fantastic week of education with td ameritrade this is trading futures where we spend some time today as well as in the coming weeks is technically trading futures utilizing some intraday charts as well as some common trading tools such as pivot points fibonacci and the like also practice with the active trader platform so stick around [Music] all right it's great to see those that are live with us today do appreciate vjgh uh frank george texas tm and everyone else mr ken rose is helping out on the chat today so any questions i am unable to get to he's more than happy to help you can also follow us both on twitter you can see mine on the screen throughout the presentation at j mcnichol underscore tda ken is his first initial last name at k rose underscore tda great way to learn about the markets as well as about individual coaches uh ken's familiar with the futures market he also does a lot of things with think scripting and has a session i believe every friday there that's great to see live if not feel free to go ahead and catch the archive for that as well all right let's go and take care of disclosures folks get right into it content's intended for educational information purposes only non-investment advice or recommendation of any security strategy or account type options not suitable for all investors spread straddles other multi-leg options strategies often involve greater more complex risk than single-leg option trades make note for both long and short options the risks associated with short options such as assignment can occur in any time regardless of the in the money amount even if it's slightly out of money depending on the instrument assignment can occur a long put or poor option entire amount of that option is also at risk and you're encouraged to practice what you learn here today with tools such as paper money software keep in mind it is for educational purposes and successful virtual trading sure one time period does not guarantee success of actual funds during a later time period as market conditions change continuously futures and futures options trading involves substantial risk and is not suitable for all investors make note of transaction fees also trading on margin increases your level of risk downside financial risk is not limited to the amount of equity in your account and charles schwab futures and forex llc may liquidate any or all of your positions at any time if your account equity drops below required margin levels all right and wireless webcast may discuss technical analysis other approaches include fundamental analysis may assert very different views and a stop-loss order will not guarantee an execution at or near an activation price once activated they compete with other income and market orders there's a bio for those interested i've been around the block a few times and uh certainly enjoy what we do here at td ameritrade education and uh i'd like to thank you for being here once again uh let's go ahead and look at our agenda take a look at current market conditions this is going to be tied into uh our discussion here on pivot points uh we'll be uh looking at different time frames starting off with the daily chart identifying major areas of support in resistance obviously utilizing trend and seeing how that ties into the intraday period of time so we'll explore fundamental elements of pivot points which is an intra-day trading tool that some traders may utilize there which identifies potential areas of support and resistance based off a previous price action and we'll be utilizing this tool multiple times in the coming weeks we'll also utilize the thinkorswim active trader portion of the app application to place a trade we can utilize that to potentially efficiently place not only potential entries but as well as exits as well utilizing that tool so hopefully you'll enjoy the ride here today bringing up the thinkorswim platform and uh we we have a daily chart on a grid here a daily chart uh with a uh well right now i have it set on a 30 minute there but we'll look at other intraday periods uh such as a five minute i'm looking at forward slash es which is the s p futures now if you wanted to follow along or have a similar grid to what i have that is over here on the left side bar under the scratch pad now it's not a recommendation or endorsement of one setup over another but if you do not have a chart set up or want something to practice with this would be an example all i did is went up to the setup in the upper right hand corner setup open shared item and then go ahead and type in that code keep in mind it is case sensitive it's also configured for a lighter background there so if you do have a darker background you may have to tweak around with some of the colors there and it would look something similar to this i know there's a little bit of a lag this computer is working hard to bring up that grid somewhere it may take a few moments and i'll just go ahead and continue working here if it allows me to bear with me for just a moment all right looks like my screen may have locked up there we go no sooner i was ready to give up there we go so there's an example of a a chart right there again daily intraday chart over here on the right okay i'm gonna go ahead and close that out i'm gonna right click on the daily chart we'll maximize that and as we can see with the trend uh and right now i'm actually looking at mes this is the micro contract so we'll kind of flip back and forth between these let's go back to es uh main difference between those is the leverage the multipliers behind them uh so we're still obviously uh in a downtrend uh with this market uh hitting bear territory with a 20 correction or more but we did have a pretty good counter move uh over this last week as we kind of zoom in after hitting lows uh on or around the 17th we did get a hold on the daily chart price action traded higher notice there was a bit of consolidation uh at a resistance level i had this being the 61.8 retracement now this is a fibonacci level we're going to talk more about fibonacci in detail next week we're going to do more of an emphasis here on pivot points but just want to make note of that those of you that have been following along with this webcast as well as multiple technical webcasts that i've done i've referenced the lows going back uh to september october uh depending on the instrument there uh most of the market indices did break out in october november and we've retraced a certain percentage of those um some have dug deeper than others now from a longer term trend standpoint and again we'll take a deeper dive uh with some of these numbers next week that's 61.8 some traders consider to be a make or break point uh for a trend and on a weekly basis uh that did break down uh two weeks ago uh however there was a pretty quick snapback uh that following week we're actually back above there so whether some traders look at the glass half empty or half full uh still can't ignore as far as the trend being down even though we did have a bullish reversal week notice uh did when i went to a longer term chart it did switch from a daily interval which is here to a weekly interval i looked at a longer term chart so we did have a bullish weekly reversal starting off the week we're opening up in the higher range there so the idea is looking to see you know is there uh some continuation there and uh that's actually some of the topics uh that i've tweeted about uh over the last week uh not to mention we had air show yesterday my cat's uh commentary on the market there she's a little more of a pessimist and going down a little bit on the s p the cash index which the s p futures derived off of you can kind of see that similar situation the s p after getting a bit of a bounce started forming more of a bull flag as traders were looking for some resistance or resistance bounce that didn't occur as prices did break out there's that weekly reversal taken out that previous week's high not only did it do that it even filled in the gap uh from the market dropped there on the 12th keep in mind gaps can act as support and resistance and you know in this case that was filling into the 3 900 level and that was going in the last hour i believe last hour to the market and the market actually did uh continue not only fill in that if i go and switch to spx bring up a daily chart uh yeah it looks like we had closed out at about uh 30 39 11 and then as we're looking at the cash index right now in the market opening we're at 39.07 there now notice as we kind of zoom in and you know look in and we're still looking at the cache index we'll go back and look at the futures here is you know where some potential resistance um you know if i go ahead and look at the 55-day moving average that we've utilized some traders utilize other averages such as a 50-day uh notice they can act as some resistance that was that last consolidation also the fibonacci tool which again will break down more next week from a standpoint of resistance going on this leg down from high going down to low basically again filled in that gap at the 50 percent level so basically retracing about 50 of this sell-off there's that 61.8 notice that's also
near another gap there gaps can act as again support and resistance on the cash side 39.65 may be an area that traders may be keeping an eye on as far as resistance or if this momentum continues to trade up to that and keep in mind if we were to even retest some of those highs and those aren't high highs those are just recent highs i believe that would be somewhere along the lines about another six to seven percent move so something to keep an eye on as far as with some of the momentum in the market going back to the s p futures we can do the same thing here now notice there's not gaps on the s p futures well that's because that they're typically trading 24 hours a day six days a week so those gaps you see on the cash index are reflective of uh overnight price action now as i go ahead and draw a fibonacci from the high down to the low look at some resistance levels notice right now on the daily chart uh consolidating at that 50 percent level a little bit of a tail here as you know the market's backing off some of the highs from in the overnight i'll go ahead and zoom out a little bit more you know we can also go ahead and look at things such as support not only support and resistance but looking at the trend and utilize that into some of our intraday discussion here now i'm gonna do is i'm going to go ahead and just plot a level at the 50 percent i'll even go a little bit lower and plot it at that 38 level there i'm going to go ahead and right click and remove those fibonacci levels now as we look at a daily chart you know this could look a little noisy here but notice when i go to an intraday chart i can see some of those daily levels that we plotted on the chart by those horizontal lines now these color lines are going to be pivot points let's table that for a moment there before we conclude with the broad market here since we also have a trend we can also identify a potential price channel so i'm going to go to the drawing tools we're going to select a parallel line here and let's go back a little bit here let's go ahead and kind of connect the dots on extending out a trend line which signifies that downward trend that potential resistance and did not stick exactly as i was looking for here let's try this again so running one parallel line off of that resistance and as we go and look at support we can kind of get an idea of that support area and notice we kind of broke into the upper half of that with that price action from friday and then traders may keep an eye on some of these resistance levels as potential price targets if they're bullish on this counter trend move all right so that's a overview of the market there now some things to keep an eye on as far as on the week folks is we did have durable goods come out today that was actually pretty positive believe the expectation was 0.1 percent i think it came out about 0.7 you can double check by looking at the calendar on thinkorswim as well as on the td ameritrade website if we go up and td ameritrade go to research and ideas look at analysts reports for correction not analyst reports calendar once on the calendar you can highlight economic events which we have checked as we scroll down here's durable goods 0.7 was the actual now it's not a robust number but it's certainly better than being flat uh that's the second month in a row so that still may keep pressure on the fed uh as far as with uh rate hikes since that was more of a positive surprise going into the week housing uh is uh on the docket there along with consumer confidence wednesday growth estimates as far as with gdp and then more inflationary data going into the end of the week where personal income spending and uh personal uh cost or consumer expenditures i believe uh that is uh so a lot of uh a lot of news coming out once again for this week that can impact overall market momentum and see if any of that will change the bias of this trend or if we're just going to see that continuation going down all right so we talked about the broader market and recognizing that we do have a daily downtrend how's this tie in to our next discussion which is focusing on pivot points and we'll go ahead and we'll do a practice trade uh pivot points again are looking at areas of support and resistance but it's focusing on more of an intra-day versus looking at the daily charts that we focus so we've taken a bigger picture now we're kind of taking a closer look in and active traders may look to trade some of those relatively smaller movements that occur day to day so as we bring up the thinkorswim platform again and then switch over to this intraday chart we'll maximize this we're still looking at forward slash es and notice we're looking at an interval of a five minute chart and these periods that we're looking at are focused on uh five minute bars now notice that there's uh on top of the support and resistance lines we've identified we also have these pivot points here with pivot points again are taking a look at some of the previous price action and usually based off the open high low close and with the ranges there we'll plot potential support and resistance areas a lot of is going to revolve around the pivot and in my examples in purple are examples of the daily pivot if the price action is above that daily pivot then the idea is more of a bullish bias as far as over that shorter relatively shorter term now i also have it overlapped uh with a little more of a relatively uh longer last five trading days uh is the weekly pivot which i have shown in gold now that's part of the charts template that i've shared with you but if one was to add this we just simply go up to studies edit studies or you can just go ahead and click on the flask as well once there you can see i have an example of pivot points day pivot points week now if you want to add these on your own you just come over to the right type in pivot and as you're seeing there there's a few flavors here we're utilizing the standard pivots uh persons pivots uh sve pivots woody's pivots are basically variations of the uh of the base pivot point there some of them may smooth it out may look to average it uh i may explore some of these in upcoming sessions as by comparison and you're encouraged to explore these as well uh as you go in and click on the the question mark for that you'll see the breakdown as far as how these levels are being calculated uh the first as well second third levels of support and resistance that are plotted around that pivot point let's go and apply that now if you're adding multiple pivots you can double click notice i double clicked and it added another pivot area and these are customizable by default it looks at the day but if you want you can click on the gear and change that interval in this case i changed one of mine to weekly if you want to go out and look at it a month which some traders may do if on stronger movements in the market to look at you know possibly larger moves although i haven't personally had utilized this as much one can do that so we're focused on both the daily and the weekly here cancel out of that another indicator we have on here is atr represent an average true range that average true range as some of you may have utilized this indicator gives us an idea of the uh the range of that stock for a given period some traders may utilize this as we will to potentially set stop losses some traders may utilize that for targets as well so it's going to apply that click ok as we kind of zoom in on the current price action we can see that overnight which is in the shaded area the s p did follow through a bit from friday's price action and stronger day but we have seen it dropping off at the opening here now you know where could that price possibly fade to well one it may fade down into the previous close uh which it did as we can see the s p futures are negative uh previous close being where the lighter area uh goes into the shaded there that's usually about 15 minutes after the equity close but notice here here's that pivot point uh we're still above that price but could this pivot point potentially act as support so from a bullish perspective traders would like to see that pivot point hold and then for the week as you can see here in gold i have that weekly pivot now if you add these indicators on your own you may have to manipulate the colors by default that pivot's going to be purple i basically you can right typically right click on that indicator edit properties and you can make those lines however way you'd like i think i right clicked on the wrong one see if i can do that here edit pivot points you can go ahead and change those colors however way you'd like however you can also see kind of as a scale the the weeklies are showing up as a triangle which is another differentiator versus the daily pivots that are showing up in a circle pattern alright so kind of pull that out there as we also go back uh you know traders may also see that well you also have a potential price channel here too uh going at least from the lows from wednesday and then here's that counter move that we're seeing now some traders when they're trying to identify some of those levels you may switch that parameter let's say to a 30 minute and try and isolate that channel so i can go to drawing tools select that price channel and then just kind of extend it out now notice that that trend when it came off the lows uh did was a little more muted and then kind of accelerated here particularly from friday let me go ahead and redraw that i'm going let's start off with this channel in mind here and then going up on to the top uh side here pretty much isolating the majority of that price action uh from more recency here as well as going back to these lows and notice that we're kind of touching around the midpoint there and that kind of will coincide probably with our fibonacci discussion uh next week if i go to drawing tools and draw a simple fib from the drop here or that consolidation going into friday before we had the last run up and go into the high notice that today's price action retraced about a third and here's that 50 percent level uh for that move now let's go ahead and drill down back to that five minute chart as i zoom in again and notice one may see some confluence with this daily pivot here here's some of the fibonaccis i just identified there's the third market's trying to potentially bounce there on the five minute although it's a very short period of time uh as we zoom in a little bit there's a 50 retracement which is around midpoint and if things were to continue selling there's that daily pivot at around the 38.71 and those there's a bit of confluence here with this 61.8
so some traders may do is look for bounces off of a support area and look to possibly capture a continuation in this case trying to capture more of the continuation of that channel now there's no guarantee that the price will trade down to this pivot nor is there a guarantee if it does trade down that pivot it holds it can continue breaking down and if the optimism kind of falters it may trade down that weekly pivot and notice here in this weekly pivot there's a bit of confluence with the bottom part of that five-day channel that identified so all these could be potential trading levels as well as trading opportunities uh now from there if there is a bounce traders may go ahead and target you know that next level of resistance uh whether it's on a price level or possibly look for some confluence uh with a pivot in this case uh being an r1 level and notice there's a bit of confluence there with that price channel and that are level so hopefully uh as we're going through this you can see kind of the tie-in as far as with discretionary analysis on we started off with the bigger picture on identifying the trend which we obviously knows down we've recognized a strong counter move is there potential for that to continue as we looked on the daily chart yes although there's still risks there and then notice as we went in the intraday we isolated some of those smaller trends and when we tossed on a tool such as the pivot point which is uh not as discretionary that's basically just calculated in previous price action and plotting it for you we can see some confluence with the analysis that we did previously to the supported resistance areas okay now obviously the first half of what we talked about on identifying trends drawing support and resistance that will take a bit of practice if you're very new to being a chartist there but the pivot points from an intraday standpoint can be a helpful tool to recognize where some of those inflection points may be now i did notice we do have a survey we're not done yet but if you can click on that survey and keep that handy i would love to get your feedback there hopefully you're learning something new today not only with the market as we're viewing in real time but some tools that we can go ahead and apply to that what i'd like to do is uh take what we've uh brought up with the pivot points and then see well how can we apply a potential trade to that so let's go ahead and do that so bring up the thinkorswim platform once again and then what we'll do is we'll come over here to the at for active trader now as far as which instrument uh to utilize uh keep in mind futures are not for everyone and there is a leveraged component here if we're focusing on the es for our example here those forward slash es has initial margin 11 550. now that is not the amount you can lose it can be significantly more than that uh as far as the loss is going to be based off of the tick value and how much it goes against you this is a 50 multiplier 1250 per quarter point so 50 times uh each point move uh as a reference point you know if one went long here back at 39.48 and we go ahead and draw that down going from 39.48 to where we are right now and this is just going from the overnight that's a one percent move that's 50 points okay about 50 points if you go ahead and go to the calculator on that since i didn't get my caffeine this morning a little slow start as far as my math skills uh 50 times 50 that's 2500 that's already about a quarter of that margin in just uh overnight okay let alone if you go back and look at it from a broader perspective those pivot points don't look so hot on a daily chart uh more geared for intraday uh but you know going from 4 100 down to 3 600 okay that's a 500 point move okay what's the math on that 500 times 50 that's 25 000. that is double the margin so keeping in mind risk can be substantial that's why one needs a plan for exits and have an idea on how much you're willing to risk in the trade now with that 50 uh multiplier of 50 there is another contract which is forward slash mes we've talked about this in the past may talk about again from a standpoint of hedging with smaller accounts forward slash mes has a multiplier of five so five dollars per point it knows the margin significantly less in this case although that can be significant and that is not the minimum or the maximum that someone uh can lose let's go ahead and switch back said intraday those price still trying to consolidate at that midpoint whether that holds or not we'll see but i want to do a practice example tied into on the active trader and let's go to forward slash mes since i already have a practice position on the larger contract um as we scroll down notice there's that pivot point let's say the idea is if the price was to retrace to uh that pivot point and look for a bounce uh what we can do is we can put in a limit order uh in an attempt to capture that if we go and look at that pivot notice that pivot has 38.72 38 72 25 let's say we're willing to put in a limit order that's within one or two ticks of that support so one or two ticks is a quarter point each so that could be put in a limit order anywhere from uh 38 72 50 to 38 72 75.
now if i wanted i can go ahead and place a trade right here on the chart we can right click and do a buy custom with an oco bracket but we can also utilize this active trader tool to do the same thing if i come over here under the template we can change that template to a trigger with bracket would do the same thing you can place an order and i know it's a little truncated here but it'll have a bracket order plus or minus for both a limit cell as well as a stop order you can also change the time and force now those they've joined me in the in the latin a previous series we can also customize this notice i've created multiple brackets with different point ranges here such as 10 20 30 points may not be bad as a starting point to to do something like that so if i modify this and again it gets a little tricky here since little truncated i want to make sure i get the right numbers in there 2 0.0 so i put a bracket about 20 points higher and then put in a bracket let's say 20 points lower let's leave it like that as far as time and force uh we'll make these gtc even though on intraday traders may consider closing out uh the trade before the end of the day if they have not reached their target but we'll leave that as continued work in order and then notice when you make those changes there is a little save icon here over to the right if you click on that save icon this is where you can go ahead and name that order however way you wish such as bracket you know 20 gtc whatever keeps you remembering that you can click save now i've already done this a few times so notice that if i go to this template there's my preset templates 20 point gtc there we go okay now as far as the existing order notice right here it says buy market sell market so by default the entry is showing up as a market order but let's say we don't want to do the market order we want to adjust that but we can do that however before you do that make sure the auto sends not checked if auto sends checked and you click these buttons it'll place the order but if you want to edit we'll make sure the auto send is unchecked let's say we do a buy and that's going to bring up the confirm and send window now with that confirm and send window up we can go ahead and select edit for this order and then on the buy side we can change this to a limit and we want to specify okay well what price level i think we said within one or two ticks it was 38 72 75 would be two ticks above there so i can change this price to 38 72 0.75 okay so we have that entered then um what i can do from here i could do a confirm and send although we we could finish marking the rest of the order uh but what some traders may do particularly if we're coming pretty close to that is potentially send it out now by default we're doing one contract here i do have a larger account uh you know as far as a little bit of size uh let's say i'll do three contracts here now make sure that the orders match when one does that confirm and send that's the amount of equity that's being tied up that's the margin again that is not the risk on the trade since i have a multiplier of five dollars it would be five dollars times three so that would be fifteen dollars per point so i'm going to go ahead and send this one through now notice that didn't get filled as we look on the active trader here and also on the chart notice the orders are being plotted on the chart and that is also the bracket order that's on top of that now as far as setting targets well one may set a target to the next pivot area in this case the r1 notice i can drag the order up to that and set that two is well what is our potential risk that we're trying to set up with the trade now i had a 20 point difference there uh 20 points based off of that bracket 20 times five that's a hundred dollars times three that's three hundred dollars now that's assuming that you're stopped out at that level now there's no guarantee that a stop will fill at that price once filled or once triggered it'll compete with other income and market orders now that was based off of that 20 point but is there another more of a systematic on setting that stop well here's the atr as we look at the atr for average true range it's on a five minute chart it's giving me a value of eight points a little slightly more than that but we'll round it to eight points around higher versus lower so in this case maybe 8.1 points so if i go ahead and take 8.1 times 2 we'll do it 2 times 2atr that equate out to be in 16.2 points that's a little less than the default 20 point i had but this is compensating for kind of the volatility of this stock based off of the expected moves if the moves are smaller atr will be smaller if the moves are larger atr will be larger which would force stops to potentially be wider less volatility stops may have a tendency of being a little bit lower and then what we'll do is that 16 points will be offset of that pivot point so if our pivot point was at 38 72 and then we'll minus i think it was 16.4
if i'm off a little bit i apologize that would be a stop of 38 55 85 so i can actually go ahead and adjust that here or you could even adjust that on the active trader as you scroll down you can see the different price levels on the bid and the ask it should also have where your orders are at now sometimes if you get a little lost in the sauce here there is a little center in button here over on the right which is showing where the current market is at as far as the ask size bid size and then here is your volumes as far as at different price levels some traders may also try and read into some of that now you know to go ahead and find uh and this is where it may get a little cumbersome as far as on the chart it's trying to reset uh as far as looking for my stop sometimes it gets a little convoluted here but there we go i think it was just on there a second ago so uh there's a limit order to buy and then as far as our stop order uh we're looking at it at 30 it was at 38.55 why how come i can't see it here this is why i have a tendency of uh not manipulating if it's wider on this chart here let's see if it lets me if i click on that no won't allow me to do that so what i usually end up doing this is we're getting a little wacky for me my apologies folks i'm just not sure why it's not plotting on there uh but what i can do is actually adjust it right on the chart left click drag and it was pretty close to that anyway within a few points now as you drag it may come right on that spot looks like i'm within a couple of points now keep in mind these are quarter point intervals so even though the atr may give you a number like 0.85 you need to round it to the nearest quarter point so in this case that would be 38 55 75. so
i'm going to edit this order 38.55 we'll hit enter confirm and send and send all right so now we have uh an order that is on that chart right now we'll see if it actually comes down and triggers that now this is not the only sole area of of doing a trade as far as support and resistance you know pivot points are just one area that one can utilize and possibly plan a trade and trade the plan you know if they see a trend uh trying to develop and looking to try and capture that dip we had set a trade to do that that's if it actually pulls to that now if that pivot fails to hold then prices can certainly trade down and stop out now let's say this order does not fill remember if i go to this this was a day order so this order will cancel if it does not fill today and we have to worry about anything after that if it does fill then we're going to have two bracket orders that are basically going to be going back and forth against each other there let's go ahead and zoom back in now if we don't hit our limit or hit the stop then the idea is we can close out the trade it may be at a a gain it may be a little bit of a loss and to do that on the active trader have a little bit of a background problem here you can actually hit flatten and if you hit flatten that would actually close out whatever existing order is there as well as cancel any additional orders so if you're in a position it would close out the position plus cancel any additional orders so this is an action that one can take you know going into the equity close if you're close to a target or do not wish to maintain that position now i did notice folks as we mentioned earlier we do have a survey there if hopefully you enjoyed what you learned here today and would encourage you to click on the survey and provide some feedback for those of you that are listening in the archive session you can vote as well by clicking like that'll let me know you enjoyed the presentation for those of you filling out the survey you can vote twice you can go ahead and click like too and do appreciate that feedback there's also a comment below that you have too uh now final note on the pivot points and we'll explore this next week and tie in fibonacci is one of the cons against this indicator if we go back part of it was contributed by the strong move that we had on friday when there are strong movement days momentum days it has a tendency of expanding those pivot points and so so notice we got a pretty relatively wide range here from the daily pivot to the r1 in fact it's close to about 100 points about 90 points but notice when price action is more sideways as we saw back here on 620 a little more range based your pivots will maintain a bit of a range so smaller ranges smaller pivots larger ranges larger pivots and it kind of goes back and forth that's why some traders and i think the sve pivot does average it we may explore that at a later point this is currently currently where we have set up right now as we go into the first hour looks like the market is trying to hold on to at least the overnight low range so a little discretionary there as far as that however if we do see it snap back down see if that daily pivot holds or not i also want to share with you our previous trades those that have joined us then other sessions we had done multiple trades define risk trades utilizing spreads we've done it on some of the various commodities from the previous what five or six weeks and just want to update you on a couple of them one of them was natural gas which was a short call spread uh that's actually expiring today both those options are out of the money for a maximum gain there that was predicated that uh we're we were not looking for natural gas to exceed ten dollars got pretty close uh but stayed out of that range and and dropped lower so positive outcome there also we had talked about the lows uh in the market there as well and we had done an example of a short put spread uh on the s p uh expecting the market to stay at least above 36.35 and uh as certainly we already recognized that we did get the bounce prices are trading higher uh that short spread is close to uh a 70 maximum gain we're targeting around 70 80 percent we still got 18 days on this we'll see how it behaves around resistance and then the currency one which was a also a short put spread uh not doing as well although trying to recover we'll see if we get the break even on that one and if you want to learn more about those go back and look at the playlist for this webcast now encourage a practice which you learn here today folks but remember in order to demonstrate the functionality of the platform we did have to use actual symbols keep in mind td ameritrade does not make recommendations or determine suitability of any security or strategy for individual traders any investment decision you make in your self-directed account is solely your responsibility so thanks for joining us folks we'll see you next week for this class as we'll explore pivot point some more and utilize those fibonacci retracements we'll see you then bye now you