The Hidden Bookcase: Family Business by Jonathan Sims
welcome to the hidden bookcase come in have a seat get comfy it's just next to the sliding Library ladder and right below the Shelf titles spooky month pick a book your favorite book that's the one that opens this room inside you'll find a warm fire a loving cat and a wide Skylight to the stars and a really tiring to be red filed I'm Morgan I use daily pronouns and I am a creepy doll hiding inside your oven I'm Zarin are you see him pronounced and I have a ceramic duck we've been friends for 10 years and are always swapping books but despite having the same taste in books we never get around to reading each other's recommendations it's always just another book on the pile it's a seriously big poem now it might crush me in my sleep so each month we're going to force each other to read a book the new reader will give a blind summary of the book we'll both go away and read it and then we'll return chat about so this week let's get to talking about family business by Jonathan Sims same organ neither of us had read this book when we decided to record this episode by the rest of Reddit but how come we chose it well we have a long and storied history with Mr Jonathan Sim I just actually interject here we are going to call Jonathan Sims Johnny at least a couple of times and we don't know him I was listening to old episodes and we're saying morgenson wrote professionally very English literature a level but we're just going to call him Johnny because we spent too much time in the Magnus archives fandom because you have to there's Jonathan Sims the character from the magma sarcos and then there's Johnny Sims the writer that's how you differentiate and for those listening who don't know the Magnus archives Jonathan Sims names the protagonist of his horror podcast the Magnus archives after himself Jonathan Sims in his defense it was supposed to not be that much of a Fiction podcast with the metaplot originally so that's his one defense what's our history with Johnny it must have been a few years ago time has no meaning anymore you were like oh I've started listening to the Magnus archive and you got maybe like 20 episodes in and just kind of didn't listen to it anymore so I was like oh someone recommended this to me it kind of ish not really but he mentioned it so I'm gonna listen to it and about two weeks later I went so sorry I finished the Magnus archives we were in season four at that point I'm actually not a horror person but it just tickled all the right places in my brain and then all our friend group kind of slowly devolved into Madness by all getting into the Magnus archives so I've been a fan of Mr Johnny Sims for a while we've both read his other book 13 stories so that's how we got into reading things by Johnny Sims that's our family business school and became an anticipated release for us what is family business about family business follows a young woman who has just lost her best friend slash flatmate she ends up quitting her job partly out of grief she ends up working for the bereavement cleaners who clean up after her roommate eyes and then she starts to notice strange things happening a kind of a strange dynamic in this family business that she's entered into subsequently spooky things continue to happen look he's spooky should we listen to our blind reactions yes I'm so curious so Morgan we have not read family business by Jonathan Sims what do you think is going to happen what do you know about it okay is vibes gonna be anti-capitalism um someone's gonna eat human meat you just know it's Johnny Sims someone's gonna consume human meat I don't know it looks like it's set in the morgue from the cover someone's gonna eat human meat siren it's got human bodies in it yeah it makes sense and it's Johnny exactly and this is gonna be gays of course there's gonna be gays yeah I'm assuming that it will be a little queer I was thinking that that we were doing this for the hidden bookcase so we're just assuming that will be clear but it's Jonathan so I trust him and I think he'll fit some games in it I'm gonna throw out a wild guess and say that this one isn't going to be sort of anthology-ish because he's done that with Magnus and he's done that with 13 stories so I feel like he's gonna take a new tact and it's going to be one set of characters do we think we're gonna get a transcript chapter like we did in 13 stories I think there'll be something spicy I don't think it'll just be straight narration throughout the whole thing I think we'll do something experimental at some point like that do we think it's gonna be like Real Horror Real Horror I'm defining is like not fantasy sci-fi when I say real I mean like real life horror or do we think it's gonna be a little bit Eldritch a little bit weird it's got to be a little bit eldriched and weird surely also I had this thing with 13 stories where with a little bloody stain on the cover I was wondering if it was going to be a bit gorrier than the Magnus archives but then 13 stories wasn't so I'm now thinking that family business will also be fine Killing Floor Vibes I think it might be goryer but I don't think it will get to the point that I won't be able to handle it do we think it's gonna be a tragedy do we think absolutely yes I feel like he's done 13 stories basically had a happy ending so no way we've got to go back we've Gotta Give me the tragedy Johnny to normalize exactly foreign what did we get wrong but you're right about someone getting eaten a human getting eaten but not by another human so not sure if that counts disappointing where's the cannibalism Johnny come on and also while alive um tragedy kind of a mix they got away in the end but it was still sad yeah it wasn't world ending tragedy or Bittersweet tragedy it was just kind of like we survived but we lost a lot I feel like it was gorya than I was expecting the second half the physically the climax in particular it took a very sharp turn into Gore the teeth in the throat was something I liked that is it sharks that do that sharks and guinea pigs have you seen guinea pigs have you seen their teeth I mean not in huge Detail no they have four teeth on either side and then like a spiral of teeth going back into their throat that's horrifying it's like a chewing tunnel horrifying that's what I was thinking when I was reading that chapter and we were right about it being Supernatural yeah everything so far has kind of felt like it could even be set in the Microsoft pet Universe including 13 stories we arrive at it being queer we were right about being queer the moment Zen showed up I was like that's a funky name Frank is not naming his daughter Zen with an X and then she kept going I was like oh Trans t-shirt iconic deer as well of course and Andrew Angie we're gonna jump ahead to characters for a second because Angie fits my favorite tropes in so many ways character that wants the narrative without appearing yeah that one for one and then the other one is person who has no reason to be violent but is like I just wanted to know what it would be like to actually hurt somebody oh I forgot about that creepy child Vibe and she's like like so ready to go to bat for dear the violent friend and the pacifist friend and the violent friend protecting the past of his friend is one of my favorite Dynamics so the moment we got that flashback earning it up I wanted more of Angie I know this is on real estate but I wanted her goes to show up at the end and I knew that was never gonna happen because it wasn't that kind of horror but still made me sad because she was so cool and she was dead the whole time why would you make a character like Colin and kill her off before this book even starts that's pretty Jonathan Sims track record to be fair I know speaking of Angie and the rest of the queer characters sometimes when straight authors write queer characters you can kind of feel that they're just writing queer characters to tick A diversity box there's a lack of understanding of what the queer experience is there'll be a superficial understanding whereas the layers of it this whole thing about how Angie and Dia came out as bi at the same time and a lot of people thought they were a couple yeah I had this thing of like am I in love with her am I not in love with her when she lost her people were like well I don't really understand why it's such a big deal she wasn't your partner it very much read like a query platonic relationship and it was just nice to see that and the way that she connects with Sam later the queerness in his books is very they're like implicitly queer like if you took the queerness away from them they would be missing a lot yeah is Johnny Sims straight no okay just checking because you're like straight authors no no I mean authors who are straight as in not Johnny I was just checking in I was just I was like I'm pretty sure that he and his partner are boys I meant that you can tell that he's not basically but I don't want to say that because obviously people could come out on their own time and they don't want to read a book and then assume that somebody's straight and then just be wrong and they just have a different experience to me this feels like it was written by a queer author you can tell yeah complete segue but this reminds me of something we missed in our checkbox of what we thought was going to be in here rage against the British government oh that was definitely in there it's such a core part of how Johnny writes it was amazing God I have at least one Tori's joke exactly very funny I did lose it a little bit the way it came in right at the end was so funny it was like just in case anybody didn't get this I know I named the antagonist Mr Bill actually the capitalist system is the enemy especially when Tories are in charge of it goodbye the whole premise of people who fall through the cracks are easy victims and then even Frank justifying it with well it's their fault they've fallen through the cracks which is the sort of myth that is put out by Tories like you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps yeah it's very inherent in the world building of this book you can feel the rage how disappointing and enraging it is that this is a thing that happened this is a book that could easily just be real you'd never know because nobody cares and that's what's awful about it exactly I think as well as the rage you can also and I think this is a Hallmark of Johnny's writing in general there's a very deep compassion for the subject this book follows Improvement cleaners one of the very first episodes of the Magnus archives is about a Benjamin across all of Johnny's works we get to see the perspectives a lot of people often look down upon by society and House people refugees the mentally ill the fact that Johnny will make these people protagonists even just for a little while like anyone else I'm sure Johnny has implicit biases and prejudices but this is someone that clearly believes that all of these people are people and deserve empathy and consideration which really shouldn't be a high bar but unfortunately it's wrath and he's talked a lot about how much he researches roles before he talks about them in fiction yeah you can definitely tell I would believe that this was written by somebody who used to be a bereavement cleaner absolutely we haven't talked all about the cover we've jumped straight into the narrative yeah because we've both read it as an e-book we don't really have the book as an artifact it makes it an impression of it I mean I think it will look nice next to 13 stories they seem to sort of match palette wise it's definitely not the kind of book that I would pick up but at the same time I don't usually go for Horizon it's an okay cover it gives you what you need but I don't like real looking people on the cover and it looks too real it looks like a photo but it will look really pretty next to 13 stories let's talk writing style once you get into a Johnny Simms book it's really easy to read because he has this sort of conversational tone with dialogue especially and he has a very good way of making simple a description he's just like I'm gonna write this to things that you understand and that's really useful I do think starting a Donnie Sims book is quite hard I think he's used to writing long form fiction so the first chapter is quite info dumpy but once I was into it I was flying along how did you find it I think I found the beginning okay I mean I like his style I think he's like a very competent writer he's good at what he does he's good at creating suspense he's good at making things creepy without being like and there was blood everywhere and he's got a slightly more subtle scenario one that just comes to mind is when DIA has to go back into the building that's been collapsed to go and unwedge a piece of lumber so that they can take it out and I was like I'm so freaked out but like nothing's really said to be happening here there's something about the way that he described the cramped doorway just creates that foreboding sense scene when she was in her own apartment alone oh yeah yelling at walls searching every cup and then she couldn't go into Andy's room just in case because she was like I'm certain there's something on the side of that door I only read ebooks in the dark I'm like oh I've got the lights turned off I'm going to bed so I can't read my book I'll read my ebook I think you need to get a lamp I have a lamp it's a cost of living crisis sorry okay okay I can't be reading at two in the morning so so I had to stop reading this book for a bit because I just I was creeping myself out because I was two in the morning and all these really terrifying things are happening I was getting too creeped out yeah I was mostly reading during the day but I did have one scene I had to skim which was the scene where she found Nia's stuffed animal in the apartment and then it was full of moths there's something very specific about stuffed animals and horror that always gets me I hate it I don't know why I was glad it was moths I was expecting something worse spiders I was expecting spiders I was on the bus and I just stopped because I had to get off at the next stuff anyway I was just thinking about what this is horror it was like did you always go with moths because they can fly but they're not butterflies because butterflies would sound stupid and I suppose moths eat your old clothes which ties nicely to the themes of Erasure and forgetting but I think it would be equally horrifying to be swarmed by malevolent butterflies even if it's a bit more colorful but yes if it was just butterflies that would still really really enjoy my attention of the scene I had a brief moment of well I really wish I could read that book I would love some historical fiction from Johnny Sims we know he can do it because it's certain episodes of the Magnus archives are more historical the epicolorary ones whether the latter or something that turns into a statement give me a narrator who's actually a terrible person who makes this deal in the first place yeah that would be interesting I have to say I feel like the two genres of horror didn't quite Jive I did really enjoy it but there's the first half of the book which is all like ghosts and visions and creepy stuff and then there's Mr Bill and Mr Bill didn't feel like he quite fit the vibe of the rest of the book yeah I think he was a little bit unsubtle at the end that's like a really British way to say that he ate somebody alive yeah it felt very different it felt quite rushed yeah that whole scene with the world going wrong and everything being weird in the back Garden the house changing was so creepy and so vibey and I absolutely loved that but Mr Bill just stretching his hands and opening his door and eating people I don't know it it kind of broke the suspension of disbelief a little bit for me yeah I think because the buildup is so slow and then Danny boy is like so sudden when even like a couple of chapters ago we were still trying to convince ourselves that these Visions were real or deal we're still trying to convince ourselves divisions were real the most unrealistic thing was the Doctor Who was actually helpful and suggested brain scans and stuff like that that was unrealistic blocked it's like where's the waiting list on the NHS I was thinking that where's that you're fine where's the have you tried taking iron pills to see the doctor I was like surely what's going to happen here is that she's not going to be able to see a doctor until way too late but she saw a doctor so fast I wish I could see my doctor that fast apparently this is a utopian I don't know maybe she has Private health care maybe maybe in this lands on this pay really well would you want to be a bereavement cleaner might be so bad at it I'd rather not that would be my day job I think that would be bad for my mental health I think it's bad for most people's mental health and actually you mentioned Killing Floor in our blind react which for those that don't know the Mindless archives is an episode of the Mindless archives about a Butchery since listening to the Magnus archives partially because of the Magnus archives I've gone from Pro circumstantial cannibalism omnivore to a vegetarian which I think Johnny would be very disappointed to hear although to be clear I am still Pro circumstantial cannibalism but the point is that listening to Killing Floor made me think about the human toll of slaughtering animals day in day out and do some research into the mental health aspect of that which is obviously that it's disastrous I thought that was interesting because I guess theoretically everyone could be vegetarian then nobody would have to butcher animals and then we would solve that problem I'm not saying that's what should happen I'm just saying that that's a theoretical possibility people are gonna die and people need to clean it up presumably it's not great for your brain but how do you get around that good pay and a therapist yeah at least until we have incredibly good robots can just do it for you and even then what if the robots become sentient and they don't want to do it either [Laughter] thinking too far ahead I do feel like any time I read Jonathan Sims book I'll think about something that I haven't told which is what horror is supposed to do horror is not just supposed to be Gore and sexual horror it's supposed to make you think it's supposed to exemplify the fears of the time and extrapolate on them talking about animals and vegetarianism reminded me I got really scared about Winston because at least for the Magnus archives Johnny has a rule about not horribly killing pets that kept me going but I still got scared because I was like did he just mean that for the Magnus archives or is this cat gonna die I'm I'm holding you to that you better not kill this cat he's the only semblance of comfort that we have in this entire night exactly and I guess queer board game night queer board game night Settlers of Catan she should have played it the fact that she'd never played it before deprived speaking of queer board game night Damien from 13 stories was there was he yeah he was there I was okay I didn't really like have any bearing on anything but he was I'm pretty sure that was him because the queer board game night and his name was Damian with an A so that makes sense I need to reread 13 stories honestly Damien was one of my faves thinking on my notes because I've just remembered one I've won bone to pick with Johnny Sins go for it at one point in one of the scenes he uses the word orbs to describe eyes and I absolutely I completely messed up I was like what in the Wattpad are you doing was it for a human person or was it for Mr Bill or something let's have a look because I feel like contextually that could be okay but if it's just a normal person I think it's about a dead body okay I think that's kind of allowed because it's creepy the eyes seem to gaze out at George as the raindrops dripped over the glassy unseeing orbs um I think it's questionable by association I can't do it I can't hack it on a slightly brighter note Morgan who is your favorite character can I say Angie when she wasn't even in the book I think that counts it's not favorite a live character I actually really liked Dia I think Dia was actually a very compelling main character because she was a good balance of active and passive things were happening to her and it took her a while to take control of The reigns but eventually she was like actually you so I think I really enjoyed her she had good like Dynamic with the rest of the characters and she just cared which I really liked she went and checked in with the the agoraphobe the guy who had his house caved in and actually took the time to speak to the houseless guy's family and actually bothered to go in and check and try to remember the names even though she couldn't it's nice to see a character Jenny when Lee cares yeah what about you I think it might also have been idea because then is a close second because like how could it not be Zen I mean she punched Mr Bill in the face she's the one that makes the Tory joke Johnny Sims is very good at character writing everyone feels very nuanced even Frank obviously what he was doing was extremely messed up but you could completely understand why he was doing it he had been trapped in this situation and that he just cared about his family Mary you felt really well fleshed out our relationship with Joe her wants to be sensitive to these Supernatural things in the face of her grief but I did really like that grief actually that's a few everybody everyone in the slough family India that's what this book is about in a lot of ways apart from the whole political aspect of it that struggle between remembering and moving on where do you draw that line yeah when Dia says she wants her grief back during the confrontation Jonathan Sims books are weird to talk about when you've just read them as well because they do leave you feeling a little bit depressed I don't mean listen at the moment with the cost of living crisis as you've mentioned and the queen dying and everyone deciding that a super expensive funeral is definitely the thing right now it's just an interesting one at the moment yeah reading it around this time was very interesting yeah unfortunately I think it's going to continue to be topical if this will come out in 2020 I would have been like wow so topical people are dying and the government doesn't care unfortunately in 2022 I'm like wow stereotypical people are dying and the government doesn't care yeah I think that that will continue to be the reality for a while I will say I do think Jonathan Sims does a really good job of it's difficult I think to write a book about a bunch of marginalized people dying and not have it be tragedy porn and that's the only word that's coming to my brain he manages to weave so much respect in at the same time but also sympathy for these people as the victims but also not portray them helpless yeah and I mean maybe the counterbalances that some of them survive at the end yeah narrative style the way that the Visions were written so that they switched into a third person point of view where Dia actually assumed the thoughts and the pronouns bully was in that person's head and we got their point of view that was so genius that was really effective those passages were some of my favorite bits of the entire book I mean they were horrifying but they were really well written and they really sort of threw you into it yeah I love those segments yeah yeah they do force you to empathize with that character in a visceral way which is good for getting the statement of the book across vital for it really Morgan how did you write family business what are your final thoughts I rated it a four out of five I did enjoy it but I think the tonal distance between the two halves didn't quite compel me I think also because I do have a preference for long-form fiction so trying to get into singular novels is quite difficult for me and I think I preferred 13 stories a bit more 4 out of 5 Stars that's where I'm at what about you I I think it's also a four for me a very solid form Jonathan Sims is very good at what he does and this is very effective I don't feel like the burning edge should we read it and a five has to be something really stand out or memorable for me this was very solid I don't have any problems with it really so it feels a bit mean to give it a full but four is very good yeah to be fair in a rating system people forget like a three it's still I liked it more than not yeah exactly I also agree with the total dissonance thing at the end that was a bit of sudden do you have any recommendations if people enjoyed family business I really just don't read a lot of horror and I'm just getting into it so I don't feel confident recommending horror same and it feels weird to recommend something else unless it had some pretty specific tropes in common or really specific themes in common yeah we don't want to come up with nonsense wrecks the recommendation is 13 stories is good and also you should definitely listen to the Magnus archives I definitely would recommend reading 13 stories if you haven't already read it so next month we are going to be reading Urban sci-fi and I'm going to be forcing Morgan to read in the watchful City by S Choi Lu until then you're always welcome through the bookcase don't forget to scratch the cat on your way out thank you for listening to the hidden bookcase a production of planar prod on this episode you heard Morgan greensmith and Sarah were discussing family business by Jonathan Sims you can find out more about this book at Jonathan hyphensims.com and you can follow Sims at Johnny Westco on Twitter you can find the hidden bookcase on Twitter at Hidden bookcase and on Instagram Facebook Tumblr and Tick Tock at Hidden bookcase podcast find out more about playing a product planarproduct.com know what we should read next or want to chat to us about what you thought of this episode's read you can reach us at the hiddenbookcase at gmail.com or send us a DM on social media we'd love to hear from you if you're enjoying the hidden bookcase please consider leaving us a rating or review or you can always tell a friend how to find us your whisper is the best way for bookworms to discover our show November is urban science fiction month of the Hidden bookcase on our next episode which will be out on Monday the 7th of November we'll be discussing in the watchful City by S Choi Yi Liu we hope to see you then and in the meantime you're always welcome through the bookcase
2022-10-31 12:49
