Short Term Trading Strategies | Trading a Smaller Account
[Music] well good morning everyone welcome to trading a smaller account my name is barbara armstrong i'm a coach with td ameritrade delighted to be joining you on this fabulous friday morning we have got ken rose with us in the chat it's always a treat to have ken he brings a wealth of experience he always checks the futures market before the class begins which is really fantastic because it's always nice to kind of have a head start on what may be happening with our day so today we're going to look at things that are similar to what we've been looking at all year you know what to do when you live in a shoe and you don't know which one is going to drop next um in this crazy market that we're experiencing this year and how we can trade in a way to make the best of it so we're going to look at lots of different trading strategies today so buckle up it's going to be a quick 45 minutes and i am delighted to be sharing it with you it's great to have so many people with us and part of this community um as you can see if you're brand new please type a greeting into the chat what you'll find is we have a lot of the usual suspects coming back week after week we started with a brand new portfolio at the beginning of the year with twenty thousand dollars we're up about 38 year-to-date and um and we're having a lot of fun learning as we go placing these example trades so uh good morning to vijay and michael and ap 514 and ali sawani and marcy and deb and juanita and vijay and lucy and mansoor and peter and tom and paul and the rest of the gang thank you all for joining us here bright and early every friday morning i know for some of you it's 6 30 in the morning it's 7 30 here in salt lake city and and we are all raring to go okay so uh let's get through our important information so we can get right out to the platform know if you've got questions you can ask um and ken will do his best to answer i will scan the chat also and try and answer questions as we go along if you are watching this in the archives as thousands do you can just type your question into the comment section uh if you love the class you can type that in there too and i respond to every comment um on a daily basis um monday through friday so i'll get back to you quickly um also the land of twitter at the armstrong underscore tda ken rose's handle is at k rose underscore tda we're both posting content on a daily basis that we think you might find helpful um so it's a way for us to communicate with you you to communicate with us um i hope you choose to take advantage of it um okay now one of the uh bits of feedback i got from the survey was couldn't we do this before the class started the answer is no but i'll whip through this super quick this is an intermediate level class everything we do in this class is for education and information purposes only none of it to be construed as a recommendation we do a lot of options in this class but options aren't suitable for all investors there are special risks inherent to options trading that may expose investors to potentially rapid and substantial losses if you're new to td ameritrade you have to apply for option trading privileges same goes for futures you have to apply for the privileges to trade futures know that all investing involves risk including the risk of loss we use the uh paper money platform on the think or swim um and there you know it looks like smells like trades like real money so it's a great way for you to be able to um develop skills and and figure out how to actually mechanically place a trade on the platform and then manage trades as we go along which is what we're doing in this portfolio but know that there are a few differences and i'll point those out as we go along okay so um you know our agenda always looks wildly similar even though the content changes from week to week so we're going to do a quick market overview we're going to place and this is another thing that came up in the survey could you do the new trades first so we're going to play some new example trades and then we're going to do some trade management as always there are more trades to manage than there is time to manage them so the trades that we are already in and out of i will cover in the next trade mending management session a new trade mini management session was posted yesterday you can access that on twitter um if i bring twitter up what i do on twitter is i will post some kind of goofy sorry i'll post some kind of goofy gift so if you see a gif you know that's the next trade mini management session that's here and and we reviewed six trades on four different stocks you can see they were uh we were pretty energy heavy in that round um and they all worked out pretty well we're going to talk about two stocks today that i posted something on yesterday let me just see if i can find them one is a bumble that you know is sporting a head and shoulders pattern and broke out we'll see what it's doing today every time i think of bumble i think of the movie um the book club which it you know it came out pre-pandemic so it's been out for a while but it was pretty hilarious uh vlo um also and this is more of a trend continuation pattern it kind of paused set up this double bottom and it broke out retested and appears to be on its way so we'll see what's cooking with vlo also but you know that's the kind of stuff we're posting on twitter okay so back to our regular programming uh yeah we're gonna play some new example trades and then we're going to um do a little trade management and the trade management we're going to do oh sorry i was still on the split screen let me come back here sorry okay so um and the trade management we're going to do is trades that we have to take action on that we're still in okay yes and welcome to all the new people it's great to have you on board okay so let's have a quick look at what's cooking in the markets so the s p i mean you know when we look at uh this baby it is still if i come to to a year to date which is kind of my favorite way to look at things you know we're still down you know 14 ish um my screen should should be okay now okay uh yeah so we're down about 14 and you know the bulls and the bears have been duking it out and you know who's winning on any given day who knows so i would say the bulls are kind of looking at it and saying well you know i spy with milo lie this kind of a little double bottom here and it seemed to break out it's come back to retest seemed to be off to the races yesterday and today who knows i mean we did see you know this kind of double bottom-ish pattern back here and it broke out quite nicely and then came and hit a new low so i'm not saying that will happen but you know i wouldn't say that the bears have gone home and then you know a bear might say well i see this is kind of more of a bare flag setting up um you know we are barely above that 30-day moving average um and then there's this diagonal resistance line just to really clutter up the chart and it did break above that so that's that's bullish but the net of it is that is somebody said in the chat i think it was uh ap 514 you know before the class started and the whiplash continues and you know it's kind of a great way to describe this year in general um if we look at the nasdaq and i don't know why i put that line in there so we can just kind of get rid of that one but you know when we look at the nasdaq pretty similar right so again the bears might say i'm spying with my little eye maybe a bear flag setting up it's you know barely above the 30-day moving average the bulls would you know their counterpoint argue would be i see a diagonal resistance breakout right here i see a double bottom where it kind of broke out and is now kind of sitting on the line but you know it is what it is and i mean this one we're still down over 20 so it's not exactly you know been a bullish trend right right and then if we come and we look at the russell it's actually you know coming back up to a previous support level here means still down not down 20 but you know year to date down 17 ish percent um you know so if we come and we look at that and say but kind of the interesting thing on this chart is that we had this support level here you know that it had come down into this neighborhood it broke below it came almost down to our 1670 target but it's is back up kind of bonking its head on this 1900 ish support level it's at 1879. so it'll be interesting to see if this continues to act as a ceiling or if it could break above but you know so the the very very short-term trend has been more uptrending so the bulls would say i'm seeing a a low higher low higher low um and and the bears would say yeah but you're not going to get through this first floor and you know the answer is well we'll just have to wait and see you know that's kind of the way that goes and the dow which is been the strongest of the four indexes mind you and saying it's the strongest it's still down almost 10 percent but we had this downward diagonal range and it appears to have broken um out of that and you know now you know the bulls would say setting up a bull flag potentially here and we'll just have to see where it goes so you know where might you look for it to head next well if you're bullish you might say well i've got this bare bull flag kind of setting up could it come back up to this line around this 347-ish level you know and it's got a ways to go you know to get there because it's at 3 30 right now and 17 points so all 15 points is a 5 move so it's a big that would be a big move okay and how about our friend the vix which has been kind of acting a little wonky going down you know and so today it's going up as the indexes are pulling back and that seems to make sense right right okay so all is well with the world and you know we extend this line it's come right back down to it and and you know technically we don't tend to spend a lot of time on the vix it just kind of is what it is um but it's interesting you know when we look at the fact that it is still quite high at 25.76 you know that can make options a little more expensive to buy but a little more attractive to sell you know and and while that may not it totally inform our decision it can sometimes influence it correct correct okay so that's kind of a quick and dirty um if you go out to the td ameritrade platform and you come and you look at research and ideas and come to sectors and industries and we do this each and every week so the only sector that is up today is energy the only sector that was down yesterday was energy so you know sometimes life is kind of like that but when we look at time frames and spoiler alert and you can come out here and do this go to td ameritrade.com um so if i bring up the last three months i don't know why wearing a sea of gray energy materials and utilities are the top three and i'm not going to go through all of them but the last six months it's going to be the same thing energy materials utilities so you know when i told you that we had just gotten we reviewed six positions on four stocks they were all bullish positions they were all profitable and they were all in the energy sector so you know if you're going why oh why oh why do we keep going to the energy sector if we want to trade bullishly it's like because it's been the most bullish of of the party although utilities and materials have been strong in the last six months energy up 62 i mean that is just extraordinary and i know that we're living in an extraordinary world right now utilities up about 12 materials up six um so but if we wanted to look for things outside of energy and i'm not saying we couldn't look in other areas also but you know if you were wondering where to start this is where one might go okay so i wanted to look at some new trades let's see what amd is doing you might say like why are you looking at an energy stock and you know what because this was setting up a pennant pattern and you know this long downtrend and yesterday it broke above this diagonal resistance line but today it's pulling back and so we're not going to do anything with that one today but i thought if it were continuing on up and it may be up by the end of the day but you know what we're not placing trades at the end of the day replacing trades now um if we look at devin now devon happens to be pulling back today but if we look at this and we say well you know what here's a stock you know it seemed to be consolidating kind of for a week or so although it was still moving up on this 10-day moving average and continues to be above the 10.
but could we look and maybe do a short put vertical now what might get in the way well we have a a dividend coming up um on june 10th and so what one might expect is that the stock will pull back or might well pull back when that dividend is paid and and then and then rebound and so some might prefer to wait until after the tenth to place that trade um or you know when the dividend is paid you know that day so we could place that trade next friday but if we came out and we said you know might this be an interesting trade the one thing about short put verticals and i'm going to pause for just a second because i've been asked several times in the surveys and in the comments why have you not done a lot of short vertical trades in the last well this year really in the last two years we've done a ton it's been our bread and butter in this class but with the markets being so volatile you know things can really move around pretty quickly and so by doing a long call vertical with a more modest target on it we've been able to get in and out of trades very quickly or doing say a long call or a long put with a one atr target and atr being the amount the stock moves in an average day so the goal is if something's down trending we just want to you know if it just moves down again for one day or moves up again for one day we want to take advantage of that move and get in get out be small nimble and quick where with these verticals even though our goal is to go out just for 21 days typically there's something in the range of three weeks and typically you know some might look at a range between 20 and 50 days we tend to be on the short side of that but still you're in that trade for two or three weeks and that seems to be a long time in this market and so we haven't done a lot of those so i thought oh you know maybe we want to come back and revisit we'll we'll we'll put one on and we'll just kind of see how it goes okay and so we'll look at devin and so with devin where would we want to be well we might want to be below this 70 to 80 mark so could we do the 71 and the 69 or could we do 70 you know would that be possible like this is trading at 76 so we might not be able to get enough premium um to do that and we'd want to come out 21 days which would put us in the weeklies and you know is there going to be enough volume and what would the bid ask spread be like and so if we come and we look at this well we've got 182 contracts you know 187 to 214. so you know it's a 20 30 cents that's getting a little high but you know do we want to go all out 40 days in this market chances are you know even though the badass spread here it's it's still wide because of volatility but you know if we look at this and we say okay would there be enough premium to come out just 21 days and do the 70 and the 68. so that would be about a a three to one ratio so if we come to our calculator and we say okay i've got to bring a calculator up i'm risking how much a dollar 58 so because the difference between the strikes is two bucks so if i take 42 and i divide it by 158 and if our rule of thumb is that we want at least one percent as a potential return so our potential return would be 20 26 percent and we say well how long are we going to be in this trade well if we go out to june 24th we'd be in it for 21 days and so what we're risking is a you know a dollar well now you know a dollar 56 to make 44 cents and so how many of these could we do we could do two or three so if we're saying well we'd rather be a little light we'd do two and we could say you know what when we've got eighty percent of our max gain so when this is worth about nine cents we'd like to buy it back we'd come to single order first trigger sequence right click opposite order say when this is worth about nine cents we want to buy it back confirm and send how much are we risking 312. in this account just fyi i just wanted to bring your attention if you're new we started the year with 20 000 and you know our max risk per trade is four to five hundred dollars and if we're buying stock um you know it's 5 000. yeah so if you would like to do spreads you have to apply for that level of option trading and you can do that in a cash account but you can call our 1 800 number and talk to someone about that yeah yeah so and and this is a trading strategy that some will use as a way of just trying to generate a small return on a regular basis what's the most we can make 88 how much can we lose 312. is that within our realm of acceptability it is so short put verticals there we go and it's in the energy sector which has been strong okay fire in the hole now when we come back and we'll just wait for that to fill when we come back to devon and if i take this line and edit it if we want to show this on the chart i can say short put vertical i think it was june 21st and our strikes are 70 and 68.
we're going to have that show on the right and we're going to put the value at 70. we're going to move the line to 70. so we can see this is a stock that's trading at 76 and this trade is profitable as long as it stays above 70 dollars and so you know that's kind of interesting isn't it that we have you know our expectation is that stock is this stock is going to continue to go up but even if it comes down by up to six dollars and 60 cents a share we could still have a profitable trade now you know if we're looking at this and saying well it's now up what if we did a long call vertical and so we could look at that as just a way of comparing and contrasting them and if we wanted to look at you know to do the same time frame to make it closer to apples to apples it's trading at 76.64
so what if we did the 76 and the 78 would there be enough premium for that to be worth our while well let's let's just check it out so if we said okay and you can right click anywhere on this line so if we came and we bought a vertical and we made it two dollars wide well it would cost us 95 cents how much could we make well the most we could make on this trade would be a dollar five the difference between the strikes so we could say well you know what if it gets to the point where it's worth a buck 50 i've made a 50 return you know i'd be pretty happy with that so and how much can we risk well we can risk four to five hundred dollars so again we want to be the conservative side we do four first trigger sequence [Music] and we're going to come in here create an opposite order and say hey when this gets to the point where it's worth a dollar fifty now what's our max gain would be as if it got to two dollars and the goal here is for it to end up trading above 78. we're going to make that good till canceled and what we're trying to be here is not greedy so we're going for base hit so how much could we make 412 how much could we lose 388 so you'll notice that it's a much kind of sexier risk to reward ratio right um than the short put vertical but this is more directional it has to move and it has to move above 78 dollars a share for us to get our max gain in order for the short put vertical to be profitable it just has to you know stay above 70 dollars it can even come down by six bucks so it's a little more forgiving and we're going to compare this to the short put vertical okay so fire in the hall okay so that's devin so first two trades done and [Music] okay so bumble as i said i posted something yesterday so some might look at this and say you know i spy with my little eye and inverted head and shoulders you know come saw others might say well what about this like maybe i see a kind of a double bottom you know or a two-headed monster but either way the kind of idea is if it's moved from 1755 to 2971 um you know without getting into the weeds that's about a twelve dollar move so if you're expecting about a twelve dollar move to the upside you know could we look at that we could do something like a buy right we could do or we could do a long call vertical um you know or or we could just buy a call and we could do that one atr strategy or we could do all three but you know that's putting you know a lot of eggs in one basket but you know when we look at our account and some might say why do a buy right well we have of our 27 600 23 000 of it is sitting in cash and that has been pretty common that that probably 70 80 percent of our money in this account continues to sit in cash because this year we don't really want to be sitting holding a lot of stock positions but if we looked at this and said hey this is in our snack bracket in that we could buy a hundred shares it would be under 5 000. could we come out to the trade tab does bumble even have options well if we come out it's only monthly options but we can see that the at the money contract here the 35 has 2 000 contracts about a 20 bid ask spread which is in that neighborhood of 10 so you know and we'd be paid the mark so if we did the math and said well if we're expecting a 12 move if we went out 40 days it would only have to move five dollars for us to get our max gain might that be interesting if we're just looking for a base hit so how much could we make on this trade the most we could make is five dollars i'm rounding it's actually 496. but if we could make five dollars on a 30 investment if you want to put that into percentage terms that's a 16 return you know that doesn't look too terribly horrible does it for how long for a trade that we might be in for 40 days now do we have to stay in it for 40 days we do not and in fact you know often with these buy rights when we have the majority of our gain the majority might be 70 or 75 percent or even 60 if this went up nicely in a week you know we might say you know what we have a nice bump on this we're going to take it and so if we come out to the charts and we say but we don't want to risk 3 000 and and technically speaking if we don't put an accident so you know we could say well it's it's come above this 2971 level i'm gonna put a stop three percent below that so 2971 times 0.97 is 28.81
[Music] now someone else might say well why wouldn't we use the 30-day moving average like it recently was down here if you want to give yourself a better chance of staying in the trade so 25 53 if we took 25 53 that would be 24.76 would be our stop if we went three percent below that and it just it means our odds of being stopped out are going to be lower if we put the stop lower but the amount we could lose is also going to be lower because what we're paying is 29 so if we make the stop lower at 24.76 we're risking about 500 to make about 500 but then the odds of us getting to stay in the trade would be higher and so i'm going to put in just as an example the lower stop but we're also going to put in an alert so we're going to create an opposite order we're going to make it a market order good till canceled and we're going to say hey if this goes at or below 2476 we want to issue a market order now does this guarantee that we'll get out at exactly that price it does not and there is a transaction fee also when we're doing an option buying the stock there's no charge but there's 65 a 65 charge to buy the transaction fee to buy the the uh to sell the call yeah yeah somebody's saying you know since the time on verticals is our friend when we're selling doing a short put vertical when we place a trade on friday we get the advantage of theta decay over the weekend and that's absolutely true yeah and often with our long call verticals yes we will do one leg in the money it just means it has less of a distance to go to get to our max gain and it's amazing sometimes you know how those can work out nicely and so this is a buy right covered call okay okay so that's bumble and then you know when we look at this if we come out to july somebody said well we should do that one atr so and and let's just compare those so you know it's moving up quite nicely again today so we're going to come to studies edit studies and we're going to add our atr to the chart if you're not sure what that means if you click on the question mark i just posted something on um on twitter on how to access this also so if i move kind of fast and you're going where did she get that again you can go to twitter and there's a step by step so here's our atr so in an average day over the last um the 14 days it's moved on average two dollars and 26 cents so our one atr is 226 okay i'm going to make this a little lower i'm just going to use my calculator but here's our example one bumble one atr is 226 so our target is going to be today's high which is where it's currently trading oh thank you 32 which makes the math really easy 226. so our target is going to be 3426 and 34.26 and our exit is going to be today's low now some might say you know that they would rather just go from 30 to the current trading price but if we look at today's low this gives it a bit more of an opportunity for us to stay in the trade 30 31 minus 226 okay 30 31 to 26 28.05 okay okay so we're going to come to our trade tab um if we wanted so we're going to do the 30 one because if i go in and buy this one that i just sold i'm gonna cancel it out so if we do the first strike in the money um i'm going to come here right click we can only do one because it's four dollars we are going to buy a single and we're going to place an oco order and the way we're going to do that is coming to first trigger sequence right click creating an opposite order and making it a market order good till canceled and then when we hit our sprocket with our disappearing reappearing ink our target we always put in first so when it goes above this is 34 26.
i'll correct that 34 26 and or if it goes below 2805 we want out and we're just looking for a base hit here and someone has said well you know in in order for this to be profitable doesn't it have to go up more yes you're right there is an error on the scratch pad it's 34.26 and i'll fix that okay um it come monday because on monday i'm going to talk about the theo price calculator in the long option class which i'm treating as a companion class to this so we'll we'll get into theo price on on that class and this is 34.26 takes a village to keep me you know on the straight and narrow guys yeah okay so we're going to put this one in and that is a long call and this is we usually put in the notes it's a one atr strategy okay now there are two trades that i want to look at um there are four trades that we got in and out of but there are two that i think we should have a peek at one is mro and so marathon oil we bought a hundred shares of the stock and then we sold the 29 call and it's now trading at 31.88 so when we look at how much we could make on this we could make about 250 dollars so the difference between this strike 29 and what we paid to get in 26.47 so the most we could make would be you know two dollars and 53 cents or 250 dollars well we're we're at 207 so we've got the majority of our gain so this is where you get to vote so we can either take that 200 and ring the bell and take it from an unrealized game to a realized gain or we could say you know what this expires in two weeks and so i could ring the bell now or i could create a rolling order and come out to this is the one we'd be exiting come out to july and maybe sell the 30 and receive a small credit well it's only a 10 cent credit but i'd get another dollar you might say well for a hundred bucks is it worth it but if it's you know i we could get a dollar ten on a two what was it 26.50
investment that's another four percent so i've got two ring the bells uh i've got four four ring the bells and one rolling order that's interesting i thought we would roll it but you know what like i said i like to run a democracy so we will ring the bell um but know that like this is one of those things where you know we can we get to decide what we want to do and so oh these are filled orders working orders so we're going to come to mro and i'm just going to cancel that so we're just going to cancel this order so there went that one now you'll see there are no chiclets beside mro and we're going to highlight it and create a closing order and when we close this order we are buying it back we are we are buying back the call that we sold and we're selling the our position in the stock okay okay so we're going to let that one percolate for a minute the other one that i wanted us to review was another energy stock oh surprise surprise um and it's this long call so we are up 460 dollars we are up over a hundred percent so why are we still in this trade okay well because it hasn't hit our target yet and what was our target you might ask well if i come to here's our exit our target's 104.85 oh well where's psx trading yesterday it came like oh so close it's at 104 it hit 104 16. our target's 104.85 so you know by the end of the day it could come up and hit it but we aren't going to be together at the end of the day and so this is one of those where you know it's a not bob moment do we really want to be like bob and take like what for us and this you know this account started at twenty thousand dollars like four hundred and sixty dollars is like over a two percent return on our original entire account like that is a home run my friends it's a grand slam you know so we are not going to be like bob and potentially watch watch it pull back we are going to take our profit everybody in agreement so yeah marcy's saying don't be like bob you know sean does sing ding ding yeah so and and we had done two trades on phillips we had done one um if we come back to the chart and and this is another inverted head and shoulders just to review right where we saw here's kind of the shoulder the head kind of a double shoulder whammy but you know and then it broke out came back to retest and so we said like hey we've got a 16 point move so from 90 to 106 so we made our target just a little bit shy of that 104.85 yeah and so the one atr we put in two trades that day we got out two days later this one we've been in for another week so this was a trend trade we haven't done very many trend trades okay so in the spirit of not being like bob and watching our profits melt away i'm going to take this psx order and we're just going to cancel it we had also said hey because it was a trend trade if it loses half its value we want to exit so we're just going to cancel the whole group so there when our order's on psx we want to make sure that we don't make the mistake of leaving them in now depending on your account um it may not even let you exit the position 475.
well we are happy campers there oh let's see if we can get 910 okay and this was a trend trade oh with two a's i threw in an x-ray i'm feeling so generous it's friday okay now i i've got i'm going to do another trade management mini session but we had two trades conoco phillips was one of them um where we got in uh let me just close this so you know we we got in for june 17th 95 cents and we put a target and got out at a dollar sixty um so that was a profitable trade i'll go over that in the trade management mini session but if you're just wondering what happened to that psx was the same thing we got in for 95 we got out for a buck 65 these were both long call verticals and then we had two trades on a firm we did a long call and we did a buy right and it hit our stop on both of these and both of these ended up being trades where we lost money i won't say they weren't successful trades in that and you might say well if you lost money it wasn't a great trade but we lost money but we lost an amount that we could afford to lose so on the long call we lost two hundred dollars or two dollars a share and on the um buy right we were down about 300 um you know so and you know so between these two we took a 500 hit now this is our second set of trades on a firm the first ones were profitable and if we come and we look at this today uh well it's down 92 cents so we may end up being happy you know that we're out of it get rid of this line um but it came we got in here on a friday and then it hit our stop we had a pretty tight stop on it okay but the first time we were in we got out for a profit so those i'll go over in more detail but it could be a week or so before you see that and those we've been in and out so two successes and the two successes we had four contracts on so you know we did very well on those so that's a wrap on that um as always you know we would have liked to have a little more time but i think these mini sessions are are powerful you can access those by coming to well you can access them if you're following me on twitter but if you just like open a new window and you come to youtube and you type in trader talks now if you subscribe to the channel so if you haven't subscribed to the channel what are you waiting for you know you'll want to make sure you subscribe to the channel right um but come to trader talks and then go to playlists and when you come to playlist and you come down we're a long trading a smaller account we're in what row three row four view the full playlist it's also been posted i think in the long option so here's our trade management mini sessions here's the latest okay so you can find it there they're also check in the long options class and it's sometimes double posted all right so coming back to our powerpoint i think we have done what we set out to do we had a quick look at the markets we placed some new trades we did a little trade management so we did a little bit of this and a little bit of that we packed a lot into our 45 minutes huge thank you to ken for always being so spot on in the chat and bringing a lot of value that way um know just in closing that everything we do in this class is for education and informational purposes only none of it is to be construed as a recommendation on the part of td ameritrade or myself know that with a long or sorry short positions like we did a buy right and we sold a call we could be called out early we'd like to be called out early but that isn't always the case so a long option can be called out at any time from the time you place the trade until it expires so we have to be aware of that um no also there are transaction fees associated with options so we need to be aware of that also know that all investing involves risk including the risk of loss if you haven't already hit the like button it lets other people know you found this content valuable so don't forget to hit the like button subscribe to the channel link arms with us we meet every friday rain or shine um and uh i'd love to see you there so monday high noon long options we'll see you soon if you like scripts ken has a great class at this afternoon i forget the time i think it's at three o'clock eastern on scripting you'll want to join ken for that thanks everyone bye for now