How to Start a $30K/Month Woodworking Business
want to start your own carpentry business and scale it past 500 000 a year daniel westbrook from westbrook carpentry and millwork achieved those numbers by leveraging his legacy of being a third generation craftsman [Music] today we'll be speaking to daniel who turned to the carpentry business after starting four other businesses in the real estate and construction industries he's become a household name in seattle as he's frequently featured in magazines like the master builders magazine various tv shows and commercials what equipment is must have this is the number one tool that mulch shops end up getting how do you estimate restoration projects your profit margins are more too what do they cost you to get going well the advantage is that you can do more volume of business in this episode he'll share with you how you two can start a carpentry business how he sees growth differently how he suggests that everyone should communicate with their audience and clients and everything else that made his business successful create a website that expresses that very simply that's number one for somebody who's just starting out what do you think they should be thinking in terms of cost to operate monthly all right we're going to give you guys an inside look into daniel's truck and how you set it up if you're overworking follow these steps to live a better life it is incredible software i really highly recommend using it all right you guys without further ado let's go talk to the man daniel and before we do that like the video subscribe to our channel we appreciate your support let's dive into it what a cool looking shop daniel good morning paul how are you doing doing well good to meet you it's good to meet you likewise what's happening tell us about when you started why you started uh westbrook millwork well this particular business started in 2006. okay and uh yeah obviously this isn't my first business and i've you know had businesses before but this is sort of a culmination of career and various businesses you know up until that point did you have any prior experience in the carpentry industry when you yeah well i'm a third generation carpenter third generation business owner it's just was what i was meant to be doing so incredible you've got plenty of experience passed on to you then right yeah i did i worked with my dad i worked with my grandad i worked with plenty of the old school master craftsmen that came out of the old days and uh i still carry that with me today in in the modern era which is one of the reasons why i'm really focused on you know this kind of work today because it's a kind of a talent that takes a long time to learn and it's not the usual thing so i'm a little bit of a throwback as far as that goes let's talk about your revenue where it is today as it compares to last year and are you growing month by month so my revenue now is probably pretty minimal because i made a concerted effort to sort of slow my business down so i try to keep it around anywhere between 20 and 40k a month okay you know that's that's that's about as minimal as i can go did you answer your second question am i growing yeah i'm growing inside okay okay my business is obviously on idle but there's also personal growth that needs to happen and you need to take the time to do that i think it's really really important remodeling is one of those things where it's a good profitable business but it really depends on how you approach and you engineer your jobs how how fast you execute how well do you execute and i know you're looking for a specific number but your percentage markups should be anywhere between 35 percent and 65 percent when you got started in 2006 daniel what did it cost you to get going and what would it be today for someone who wants to get into this business specifically you think what should they budget well i already had tools at the time okay uh so if you're if you're talking in terms of costs there was there was education there's tooling but if you're if you're starting fresh in the business chances are you've already got tools okay chances are you're interested in this uh as far as cost goes you really need to pay attention to you know your your costs in business your office uh stuff your your computer your your you know whatever programming you're using uh website costs you're gonna end up spending two to five grand for a simple website anyway so if you're really wanting to start right you're probably going to need to invest not only a whole lot of time but also probably around 10 grand just to barely get your business started [Music] what does it cost you to run your business at this level on a monthly basis and what's the most expensive thing a month the most expensive thing every month is labor is what i pay myself you know i i work for my company and so that that's the most expensive thing at this point with my business sort of more on an idle mode my expenses are pretty low if my truck is paid off my tools are paid off and i'm assuming what you mean by expense it's not you know saw blades or material or anything like that because those go those are charts to the job those are those go into each job they are okay i didn't know that so whenever you take a job you factor in yeah oh yeah oh sure oh yeah not tools per se but blades right cutter knives whatever gets used and abused sure okay sure that makes sense for somebody who's just starting out what do you think they should be thinking in terms of cost to operate monthly and how is that structured well labor obviously employee labors is going to be your most expensive aside from that it's uh it's tooling up but once you have your tools once you have what you need to do your projects right uh the rest of it is pretty much uh you know what it costs to do the job which is you know part of the estimate of the job daniel you've owned other businesses before and curious what did you do different this time around and did that experience help you in growing this venture yeah it's a culmination of experience that allowed me to really focus and refine and simplify my branding that's it yeah that's it i mean talent is something that you practice and continue on right right but businesses before are kind of a training and it just almost seems like that it helps you to understand and simplify your marketing your branding who you are and what you do okay it's really that simple that's it guys stay tuned keep watching the video hack from daniel in terms of his success and how he continues to grow and be successful in this particular business as well all right we're going to give you guys an inside look into daniel's truck and how you set it up why and so forth so give us give us a tour well this is my latest rig and it took me a long time to design this thing basically it was purchased as a cabin chassis and then uh this is uh you know basically you a utility body okay and i designed it uh to be able to carry everything i need out in the field this looks solid what did it cost you to get this whole setup well this this whole setup was about 75 7 500 75 grand oh i was going to say that would have been a steal okay good okay that's more like it so i have access now i don't have all my tools in here i'm not packed tight right now because i have a lot of tools unloaded in my shop but i've got access to the side i've got tools all air all my field tools that i'm going to need for doing restorative work i you know i have things tucked away uh you know uh you know my my knee pads my carpenter bags you know all of that and uh obviously you know i don't want to forget the rack on top which is really important as well uh what's really cool about this truck is that everything's in in seattle it rains a lot so you really need to have everything protected so this is what this truck does and i've got my glass rack and everything just completely organized in here and i can get this thing packed pretty tight um i can carry my material this is where i carry uh you know those windows and you know lumber and everything okay let's talk about ads spent what are you doing where are you what platforms are you using how much are you spending uh i'm using all the social media platforms and i do not spend money on those you don't okay uh i specifically spend money on google adwords and i use the keywords i use google adwords then i spend right now anywhere between three and five hundred dollars a month okay what kind of keywords are really bringing in the returns uh historic window restoration uh historic front porch uh staircase custom cabinetry you know those kinds of things that really kind of fit with what people need in in this area are you doing it yourself as far as google apps words okay i've been working with google adwords for years and it is incredible software i really highly recommend using it because if you're advertising on houzz or if you're advertising on porch.com what do you think that those guys are doing they're buying big blocks of google adwords and yet you're having to go through their platforms so why not present your own website and learn how to use google adwords it's it's it's complicated but if i can do it you can do it let's talk about equipment you know for somebody watching who wants to get into the carpentry industry in general like what equipment is must-have and let's just dive into a little bit i think cost and things like that yeah sure i think that uh as far as equipment is concerned you've got to really identify what it is that you're going to do because there's a wide variety of trades okay okay so uh if you're going to be in the field a lot you're not looking at shop work you need to really start with obviously a set of construction bags to wear you know skill saw really depends on what you're what you're doing so identify that and start with the smaller tools that you're going to need to be able to do your service work to be able to do your craft on site and of course i highly highly highly recommend a pickup truck or a van to be able to securely carry your tools and keep them nice and organized for your daily you know work you guys if you're enjoying this video we would appreciate if you show daniel's support by liking the videos subscribing to our channel we appreciate you watching let's talk about the most important skill set that you need for this industry if i lack certain ones how do i improve on that yeah so i i think one of the most important skill sets obviously is a work ethic just like with any job and if you're really getting into carpentry then i would say that learning how to use a skill saw learning how to use your tools and what they what they're capable of doing and visualizing where you can go with them but uh also i would i would add that if that that it's important that you get involved with an employer who sees that you have drive and who's going to give you uh work that's going to stretch your abilities if you're a trim carpenter and all you're doing is is say trim on the inside of a house it is also good to understand how the house is framed how the structure is it's going to help you be a better finish person um and these these types of things and if you're gonna be discovering those obviously youtube is is awesome now not only not all the information is is right you're gonna have to you know just use some a little discernment on on on dicing that out but surrounding yourself with professionals that are working in the industry uh is is high i highly recommend doing that [Music] on this side i keep a lot of my material uh you know i've got screws i've got sandpaper close that get that out of the way but you can see i've got look at how much uh screws and drill bits and everything you know all kinds of uh nail guns sanding equipment now again this is usually packed full i've got a lot of stuff in the shop right now uh it's just easy access to everything absolutely um and uh you know obviously you know i've had a lot of vehicles before this okay but this has been my latest culmination of of what i do and also staying completely organized all the time you wouldn't want to go too fast on a speed bump right everything just goes mid-air yeah it's you know you're gonna you have to drive a little bit like like an old granny just take it easy let the traffic go by you'll get there uh but once you're there dude it's really great having everything with you all the time and you've got a pretty cool looking um you know brand really on your truck how important do you think it is this is for you like you could oh i could have went i get calls from this people say hey i saw your truck at wherever and uh i took a photo of your you know the side of your truck and i thought you know i'd give you a call and would you like to come and take a look at my project question in terms of the skill that an entrepreneur absolutely needs to have like what's been influential in your business and your growth as well daniel well i think there's a little difference between entrepreneur and business ownership business owner is business owner entrepreneur or somebody who has a mindset who is a creative mindset looking ahead and being proactive i think a proactive mindset in the ideas that you have and don't be afraid to test your ideas out in the marketplace and see where they go and that's that's i say that that's the number one thing that's a kind of a skill set takes a little bit of guts but if you can do that and and and you can discover what works and what doesn't work and eventually you're going to find your path how do you estimate restoration projects is there a process you follow is it simple time plus material and any tool system software you use to help you get that right number yes so i don't use an estimating software there's no way that i can do that with what i do because it's too unique it's too artisan but i do use i have pre-written word docs and i identify all the things that i normally do with each project so that's all pre-written in there i use a system where i view photos from a client who just inquires send me some photos so i can see what you have and i can identify whether it's something i want to do or not because these days if i'm not working in my shop or on somebody's home and i have to pull off and go look at another job i'm not making revenue right okay because this is a labor-based business and it's just me so i charge for looking at projects you do which yes which includes also an estimate and i'm giving them my proprietary knowledge it's not like i'm just charging them to show up i'm charging them for an hour of my time at their home that is 100 access to my knowledge in my mind what's the charge 300 bucks okay but that also includes write-up of an estimate which is another hour or two after that [Music] what would you do with what you know now to get going yeah i would say say two things number one is identify what your brand is okay identify what you do and create a website that ex expresses that very simply that that's number one uh be online do your social media focus on your business focusing on what you do and then i would also say that as far as equipment goes uh start simple you know don't try to jump in and do uh something that is beyond what you're capable of doing you got it you got to work up to it [Music] what do you do on instagram and facebook specifically i just post photos of my jobs how often this is usually once a week just one post a week just do one post a week it's not a lot it's not a lot but it's only me you know i don't have a whole office staff that i can just you know produce a post every day two arms right and i find that uh i have people i have clients that follow me i have uh other master craftsmen we fall follow each other uh and so it's not about you know doing a post every day it's kind of more about checking in with a friend and uh seeing what's going on okay and i i encourage my clients to kind of be connected with me on instagram because they can see what's going on especially clients who are waiting in line right i mean i've got some clients that are you know waiting a year out so they want to know well what's going on with westbrook so they can go on my instagram and they can kind of see what's been going on that's that's the beauty of social media well why don't we go in the shop and show us maybe some of the key tools and how you set things up sure sure and you know my shop is a is a work in progress you know as everything always is the shop here is i don't know 40 foot by 40 foot you know of course i've invested in band saws table saws shapers i've got planar molders tell us more about the equipment and kind of what it costs and where i would find it as well yeah so one of my favorite pieces of equipment is the is the wood master uh planer molder uh it's this is the machine right here and a planer essentially is a thickness planer okay so you can you you put wood in on one end the other end it comes out and there's a blade that that you know that planes it down makes it you know so it's adjustable it goes up and down so so you can you know plain layers off but it's also a molder and what a molder does is that it creates uh moldings and uh this is a these these are knives that are specifically made for a particular kind of molding which i do a lot of is matching very neat see that oh wow so it'll create that kind of mold yes so this was a custom made uh this was a custom made knife to match molding that i had on a specific project so this is something that would get actually charged to the project uh to have this made have it shipped install it in here and run run your mold so did you use a cad designer to do that or did you just they know the companies what you do is you provide them with a piece or a scribe of the drawing of the piece of mill work that you're matching and they'll do that and they'll do that what would it cost to get this custom knife it's about uh it's probably starts around 500 bucks whoa okay so we're not talking 50 30 bucks [Music] one of the advantages or disadvantages with your experience of having employees not having employees and so forth well the advantage is that you're you can do more volume of business okay i mean the whole idea of having employees is to is to make their lives better and your business more profitable you're doing more more volume you can do more complicated jobs you can do bigger projects i mean obviously working alone as i do right now i can't do larger jobs that i used to do i mean you need your hands on people to help you the disadvantages are employees have a lot of liabilities around them um from a business owner especially in your industry with so many well not just blades not just injury but these days you know uh you you've got to make sure you're paying attention to enough volume where you're you can take care of your employees if they're if they're if they're sick uh that you're making giving them their vacation pay their 401k those aren't necessarily liabilities but it it helps to have your business volume in order to provide that package for them so i think a disadvantage is just more once you have employees you need to make sure you have the volume of work to keep them busy the beauty of what i'm doing right now is i don't have to worry about that i can kind of focus on you know focus on what i'm doing and to me right now that's an advantage uh but in employees are not a bad thing they're a part of doing business [Music] talk to us about the insurance that you need to have and uh have you ever messed up anything that you were restoring as well and how you took care of that yeah so so actually it's really simple uh as a remodel contractor which is basically what i am you in washington state you're required to have a liability insurance usually required to have a bond so it depends on what you're doing uh in my case uh it's it's pretty standard insurance it is nothing unusual there's nothing unusual but the second part of your question uh you know take for instance this this window here so let's say i i break the glass in this right what happens i know how to fix it i know how to put it back together and it is part of the expectation with the client that look i i'm working on this on a tnm time and material basis i can't give you a solid s estimate we do i do my best not to to break anything but sometimes in the course of doing things you you do break things now in remodel there's a clause in my contract that's an ancillary kind of a collateral uh damage thing so if you're doing a kitchen remodel and a year later the customer notices that some of their doors upstairs don't quite close well when you're remodeling a building there's agitation in the rest of the building so again it's about an expectation understanding look if we're going to spend six months or eight months in your home there we're creating a lot of agitation in a wooden structure so you could end up with seeing cracks in on the other side of the wall that you're working yeah that type of thing these are the things that you've got to learn to put in your contracts and in your estimates in order to make sure that you're you're having this conversation about these expectations the table saw is one of the most versatile tools in the shop you can do a lot with it you can do a lot um it's i would say just about as versatile as the band saws you can do a lot with the table saw this is this is the number one tool that most shops end up getting this is our first tool usually a little ever to reduce yeah so this will so go up and down here that's the other one okay that one will you know tip the blade okay uh and of course i have a feed table here so that if i'm you know ripping sheet goods i can support it off of this table um which is a good trick and you know one thing i would have to say that in in the shop the one of the most valuable things you can have is have your equipment on wheels right in my case since i'm doing so many different unique things i have to reset my shop to do a very specific task so having tools on wheels is game changer awesome for me let's talk about the seasonality of this business daniel even i mean doesn't even apply do you have busy months slow months yes what is it yeah it's it's there's a cycle uh especially here in the northwest you know with the rainy season uh uh it there there can't there's a cycle uh but we can stay busy all year round it's it's not like you go dead it's just that you're when you're in the wintertime you're paying attention to covering your project from the weather or working inside uh and we have ways in the northwest to deal with that right now i'm booked out about a year and a half i've been booked out about two years uh but but again it's uh you're always developing projects even as a general contractor you're developing projects sometimes one or two years out because it takes a while to get permits and in my case what i'm doing is so rare people are just willing to wait to work with me because i have a pretty pretty solid reputation in in the greater seattle area so you're just cleaning out the the seams here is that what you're doing in this particular case uh this is a leather glass window it's been it's been beat by the weather over the years this one is in relatively good shape and so what i'm doing is taking out all the loose glazing i'm loosening up the uh the the sash to try to get it back together again i'll be putting plugs in here um and so let me show you what i'm going to do is i'm just going to kind of slowly take out this bottom rail because i want to see if it's a good shape or not and i got to be really careful of this leather glass so it just takes a little bit of i was going to say precision here a little bit of coaxing because if you don't if you you know you know you're going to be repairing the glass which you know does happen so yeah so there there is a bottom rail for a historic window sash and i don't know if you can see the profile with the camera but that gives you an idea what it looks like okay and uh so what i'm seeing here is that this is actually in pretty good shape i mean if you take a look i don't know if you want to touch that but yeah no it's dirty see how dry it is you see how solid it is so really it's in pretty good shape so that allows me to identify that it's okay i get out all of the you know all of the crud and everything and i'll i'll put it back together okay okay which i've already cleaned it up you know and so uh [Music] what are the profit margins daniel for like stuff like this pretty it well it depends on how you measure profit so like what's your clean take home after everything so if i'm doing let's say if i'm doing say 250k this year my take home is probably around 150 to 175 okay so not too bad yeah that's that's pretty if i'm doing kitchen remodeling and i'm gc and i have employees then you know it's way more than that way more the profit margins are way more uh take home pay take home okay obviously you're doing bigger your profit margins are more too okay because this business doing what i do now this is a labor-based business i'm not selling subcontractors i'm not selling a whole lot of material as a gc uh you know selling subs and material gosh that could be you know four or five hundred thousand dollars a year plus your percentage on top of that right which is anywhere between 35 and 65 so start doing the numbers which is which is going back to your earlier question crunch the numbers understand business and understand how your numbers work right as we're talking about this guys check out our podcast we dive into deeper more specific questions with entrepreneurs and business owners like daniel so check it out at upflip.com forward slash podcast [Music] uh let's talk about mistakes people love hearing what mistakes other businesses made a lot of mistakes share with us what mistakes you made and what would you do differently to go back and do it again yeah so i had a client once years ago uh that uh ordered cabinets a specific size uh the cabinets for the kitchen came higher and i went ahead and i installed them and she discovered that oh i wanted my cabinets at this height okay you know that was a part of the contract i had to rip all the cabinets out lower them down put them back in probably cost me about fifteen to twenty thousand dollars ouch the lesson yes i would say is when you are working with your client make sure that you have your expectations and your protocols wow before you order and make sure everybody's on the same page you make sure that everybody signs the paperwork so everybody's in the know of what is going to happen don't just assume there is no assumption that is going to work in your favor what is that term they have assumptions them as the mother an mess-ups let's talk about the competitiveness of the millwork carpentry gc uh industry and how do you stand out from your competition it's pretty competitive it is it's pretty competitive you have people coming into the industries that are that under price things uh make it you know a little harder for those of us have been around a long time and understand what it costs to do things so we have to deal with that for me i really kind of identified uh the unique jobs that i'm perfectly suited to do and uh that's how i can stand out yeah obviously your branding is is important that's what that's really what makes you stand out because it should be unique to to you and and the culture of your business so not not being a jack of all trades but being the master you should you should be very specific and identify uh identify your niche and what it is that you do that's awesome advice the way i stand apart is i look at myself as not a cookie cutter contractor but somebody who can do a lot of different things that are that are quite rare kind of the cookie dough that's left out left over after cutting out all of the cookies and on all of the dough in between that's left over that doesn't fit the cookie cutter okay what's your biggest challenge right now in your business today i don't really have a challenge i have to go back several years where you know my biggest challenge was that the business owned me it was it was i was doing 80 hours a week i was running around like crazy uh and the biggest challenge was finding time to just defuse and rest uh and so but several years later i have found a way to do that and that's why i've kind of you know got my business and and sort of you know lowered my volume if you will right so you went like half a million bucks to lower oh i was like way more than that i was doing you know i was probably doing over a million dollars a year in revenue wow but that's the beauty of doing what i do right i'm a hands-on contractor so i can i can crank up my business and do as much volume as i want or i can dial it back so that i can create more time for myself and i can do that within you know 18 months so so i the freedom of that is so beautiful to me yeah work-life balance super important absolutely you went from more of a general contractor to more hands-on exclusive i would say stuff like that yeah why the switch what drove you to do that what's the difference between the two well i was gcing and also doing the work in the field with my crew and my subcontractors i was probably working in excess of 80 hours a week at least i didn't have any time for myself um you know obviously i've been in business in the in the business for a long time and i just decided you know what look i'm self-employed uh i'm i'm a business owner i can do whatever i want with my business amen to that and i needed to uh kind of do some soul searching i needed to slow down i needed to kind of say wait a minute uh i need to adjust and i need to really start to focus on a genuine me and i kind of got to the point where i asked the question do i own my business or does the business own me that's that's part of the factor of business success it's not just about money it's not just about the you know the the volume of business right it's also about what your business can give you in here and what is in here that you can give to your business so you worth 80 hours back in the day where are you at now in terms of how much time you spend working just curious i probably these days i work anywhere between 10 hours a week and 40. okay
[Music] so give us a bullet point of what you need to do to go from 80 hours over working to 16 or your choices whatever so what i did is uh i i laid off my people okay i redid my website really kind of started to focus on some some things that i wanted to do i changed out my google adwords and my keywords to really kind of focus on that um i pulled out of associations like the master builders association i pulled out of all the association dues because i knew i was lowering the revenue of my business so i needed to lower the expenses so that's a big important factor you can't just keep paying out all these ancillary expenses and and i knew i wasn't going to be doing you know general contracting push and started to kind of just focus in on uh this you know master carpentry restoration kind of mill work on historic homes there you go if you're overworking follow these steps to live a better life all right you guys this is the hack time from daniel something that'll be very helpful to you and your business so i have to show you what i did okay so this is dust control is like totally important on the job in the shop everywhere else uh so i have my saw set up here and you can see that i've got this weird little contraption that i made and this is just kind of a temporary thing you don't want dust all around your shop or or in in you know in somebody's house when you're when you're doing your remodel or whatever it's really important so you can take this and put it inside somebody sure sure this makes it sure but what i did for the shop temporarily right now i've got this fan here which is just got a four inch hose that's sucking out of the hole back out here then i have my festool vacuum connected to the front of the fan and you know uh so now essentially i've got two uh you know so that so that i can you know increase the strength of the suction so i just it's a kind of a quick farmer john hack job sucks but it works so check this out okay now we're just gonna let it kind of you can hear that thing crank up eh right okay now are you seeing any dust come out of there a little bit but not much everything else went back so just you know don't be afraid to use different tools to put stuff together to make it work the way you need to work uh and uh remember i talked about that before that's the hack that's a quick hack daniel let's talk about what's next for westbrook carpentry and millwork uh where do you see the business in the near future yeah well it's uh it's uh where i would like to grow it out is to really kind of focus on my hands-on craft that's my whole thing right now is to elevate my craft as a practice and there's never any end point you know i've been called a master carpenter but there's no master you just keep going to the next level next level so i'm really focusing on that the overall i would like to uh have more clients come out to my shop sort of back away further and further into my shop rather than doing you know less field work more more shop work you just want to stay close to home i kind of want to stay close to home i've been doing this a long time uh and uh you know i this is uh it's on my property uh so uh i used to you know have a farm here and i used to sell uh products out of my farm stand out front and i'd like to revamp that and again do something like that or do some e-commerce business of stuff that i can make out of my shop and i have some ideas for that which i'm probably not going to share with you right now okay well you guys that's a wrap of us meeting with the owner daniel of westbrook carpentry and millwork what an incredible unique exclusive thing that he does he's a true craftsman third generational i hope you guys took away a lot of advice tips packs tricks we want you to succeed in this industry thank you so much for watching take a second to like the video subscribe to our channel and thanks again
2021-10-29 03:15
