How to negotiate a development deal | One Stop Business Workshop

welcome everyone to cbc's one-stop business workshop i'm natalia young lai screenwriter director founder of bipoc tv and film and i will be a moderator today we'll be talking to nikki singh manager of business and rights at cbc who will be giving us the lowdown on how to negotiate a development deal first i'd like to acknowledge that this virtual session is taking place on indigenous land we are in solidarity with anyone who advocates for the decolonization and protecting the land we recognize the peoples who have called this land home before the arrival of settlers and an end still do nikki and i are settlers in tacoronto which is the traditional territory of many nations including the mississaugas of the credit the anishinaabe the chippewa the heart of and is now home to many diverse first nations inuit mit peoples we also acknowledge that takaranto is covered by treaty 13 with the mississaugas of the credit nikki so i've pitched cbc and got the big news call that they want to put my show into development so now what yeah so let's get started why don't we go to the next slide the first slide and i can um explain a little bit about why development is important so like natalie mentioned development is the process after the pitch there was a session on pitching last week so i do encourage you all to view it if you haven't already um but whether you're a writer or you're a producer you have an idea for show and we like it as a broadcaster we like it but we want to explore a little bit more so it's not a green light more like a yellow light yeah like that's a really good way of looking at it another good way of looking at it is kind of like dating um your broadcaster's interested in you but they're not quite sure if they want the full commitment to quote beyonce we're not quite sure if we want to put a ring on it so development includes the commissioning of materials that will ultimately help in the production it can include scripts bibles demos research reports i've seen the whole kind of gambit of materials um more importantly development allows broadcasters and creative teams to work together to just evaluate the creative and try to make a program better um and lastly the really most important part about development is that it helps build the relationship between the broadcaster and the creative teams um like any other industry you want to know who you're working with and development is a huge part of that process so for creators when we pitch the production execs um but that at this point of the process we're dealing with you at cbc yes so you lucky folks get to deal with me and the first thing i'm going to ask for is when we first meet is for a budget so if we want to go to the next slide yeah so building a development budget um budgets do vary and they're negotiated based on the creative materials that we're developing a budget for a pilot script and a demo sorry budget for a pilot script and a bible will look very different than a budget for a demo um so i've included some common costs that we often see in development budgets here the first thing is your rights and your story acquisition costs so if you're optioning like a book so a couple years ago we did an adaption of the book of negroes which was written by canadian law author lawrence hill um i would expect to see those agreements and costs associated with that option from the get-go just to clarify we've put we as the writer creator have put money up front to option a book does that get reimbursed during development yeah sort of it's sort of um how broadcasters really work is that they'll pay for the rights to have in active development with them so if you've had a book for like five years you're probably not going to get reimbursed from your broadcaster whether it's cbc or another broadcaster for those past five years but they will pay for whatever amount of time you need to have it in active development so it's not a reimbursement but it is to have costs associated with it being in active development um the next common cost that we often see is script writing costs so the writer's guild of canada independent production agreement rates um they do vary based on skill script length um i do encourage you to check out these rates they are available online if you're not familiar with it but those are tend to be what we see for scriptwriting costs the next thing is story editor research fees um consultant costs i don't always see this on every project but let's say you're like doing a show on climate change i would sort of at least i would hope you would have costs associated in there with research so again it depends on the project and depends if it's um what makes sense for that particular project and last but not least is your uh producer fan corporate overhand probably what was most common producers care about um but this is how this is how producers get paid um and that generally ranges from 10 to 20 of the budget there are budget templates available online canada media fund has one that we often see and bell fund also has one that you can use as well so next slide so once we get a budget negotiated the question comes who's paying for it and that's where financing comes in your broadcaster will put up a portion of the financing but more often than not you're going to see another party paying for the rest of it i've included some common sources of development financing here highly recommend you do visit these resources and so check out canada-wide funds like canada media fund independent production fund bell fund and also any more local funds that you might have as well like creative bc and none of it film next slide so this is so important i cannot stress this enough it is so critical that you tell your broadcasters about any financing and that your broadcaster approves of whatever financing in your project whether it's at development or production some financers take rights that conflict with those that your broadcaster takes which could effectively make or break your project i understand that you sometimes want access to more money and more funds but when we negotiate a budget um and deliver for a specific set of deliverables that's sort of our expectation um in this case it's always better to ask for permission than forgiveness um i know that's not really how the saying goes but always better to ask for permission than forgiveness check with the parents before inviting others to the party yes as much as i hate being referred to as mom in this situation it's definitely better to ask for permission always great and would we get grounded or punished if we don't yeah grant is a bit harsh um i would say there is there is a term in our agreement that says we can withdraw our contribution at least for cbc agreements um should you get access to funding that we didn't approve of i haven't had to exercise that term yet and i really don't want to exercise that term so again we can avoid the situation altogether if we just communicate with one another so speaking of development terms if you want to go to the next slide yeah so common development terms that we see on our agreement the first one is the option so standard development terms on your agreement will include a 12-month option to either license your program or to further develop your program what exactly does this mean so let's say we were doing a pilot script and a bible and a state for stage of development uh broadcast the broadcaster would have 12 months from the date that they accept those materials to decide whether they want to move forward to production or further develop further development can include you know another script maybe a demo maybe some precasting it does depend on the project um again understand that development is not a quick process and things can take time in up to years even any funds paid in development is considered an advance on your license fee so i want you to think of the amounts in development like a deposit on production it's an earlier smaller amount of money that a broadcaster is putting up to secure their interest in the program so for example if your production license fee was a hundred dollars and you got ten dollars in development you'd have ninety dollars left for your production i often get very large onerous budgets that don't make sense for a particular stage of development and as soon as i say you know this is an advance on your license fee those budgets come straight down because it's in an advance you it's in your interest as well as your broadcaster's interest to keep development to really what's needed at that particular stage you don't want to blow on your money and development that's just not a smart way to go um as well as deliverables we also include in a development agreement we'll also put in writing the specific materials that we want like a pilot script or bible um delivery timelines as well as budgets and financing and the last term on server your development agreements common terms you'll see is a repayment and credit obligation so in the event you're not commissioned for production by your developing broadcaster and your greenlit somewhere else that broadcaster would be entitled to a repayment of the development amount and an end credit developed in association with on that production so you want to go to the next slide this is a screenshot i took of the coroner on cbc gem which natalie's a writer for yeah and watch it on cbc gem please do um so right at the bottom there i hope you can all see it it says um developed an association with bell media so this is one of cbc's top shows and it came to us having had some development already done with another broadcaster i mean we did do some more later but there was that initial development done by bell so again they got a credit and i'm sure they were repaid for their the money that they put forward next slide so this is my most important slide i really hope and if anything sinks in this is it um so the first thing i want you guys to kind of consider is consider thinking about the earlier sorry the earlier you consider about your production the better so it can seem a bit silly to say but i'm always a bit surprised when i ask producers like how do you see this playing out in production and i don't get a clear answer um the more you can think about how your production will be structured the better off you will be so cost budget where you're going to film all those things you don't need to have it all figured out like that's part of what development is for um but let's say you're like you're a toronto-based producer and you know your story is going to take place a good chunk of it's going to take place in manitoba find a manitoba producing partner like that will make such a big difference i think that's a really important point and something i would not have thought about totally right and it's just all i'm asking you to do really is just think about it like you don't have to have it all figured out just think about it early on likewise with option fees i often see high option fees in the agreement and or sorry high option rates and terms or owner's creative approvals and your option agreements producers agree to it because not because they don't think it's high they know it's high it's they want a development deal and they want to get those rights and so they're willing to pay whatever it takes but then those terms are not feasible in terms of production um so just think things through you want to best set yourself up for to be greenlit when in doubt at least on your option agreements you can always write subject to broadcaster approval and that might save you a lot of grief down the line next point i want to make is about termination so it's a really tough business termination on your project can happen for a number of reasons we don't always green light projects we develop it's so we sometimes have to let things go again think of it like dating it's not you it's me that's the worst it is the worst but it is a reality um but yes keep in mind broadcasters have budget restraints mandates strategies we have to follow um and there's also schedule restrictions so again often we're looking at our development slate and trying to fit it into those kind of components and pieces remember broadcasters will always let you find a new home for your project subject that credit and repayment obligation communicate communicate communicate to me the most successful projects are the ones that communicate with their broadcasters we don't need to know every detail that's going on but i do need to know the big stuff that's going happening so the more you keep those lines of communication open the better off you'll be so don't ghost the broadcaster it's a terrible idea to ghost your broadcaster please don't do it all right um and my last point and i hope one that you guys all take into consideration is development is a process and a negotiation i know it can be a bit intimidating to sometimes work with a broadcaster understand that at any given time i could have 15 to 20 projects on my plate um likewise so do the creative executives so we're juggling just like everyone else um so if something's important to you at a development stage that you think we're not giving enough consideration to tell us at cbc at least we will always hear you out but understand that we do have to work within certain parameters as well my philosophy always is if we can make it work we will um and our ultimate goal at the end of the day is to make sure our development projects are successful should they be greenlit for production so i asked producers to sort of just kind of give us as much information as possible to really help us do that and that's it from me i guess we have time for questions that was amazing thank you so much nikki for demystifying the very scary business side of things um i had a one question from me uh do we ever get to meet you in person or you just an email name or a voice on the phone yeah totally open to meeting in person if you're ever at the building at front street in toronto come by obviously post pandemic i'm working at home right now as everyone else but if should everything's returned back to normal definitely give me a shout just for those watching um you on your eventbrite there was an email where you can send your questions so we'll be taking a few more questions until the bottom of the hour um for new creator producers is there anything that we need to have in place before a development deal could be negotiated yeah um i would say the big thing is to make sure you're incorporated it's definitely an important consideration that's for your benefit as much as it is for mine um so you're protected especially if you're paying for third parties and making sure your chain of title documentation is in order um we want you to have the rights before you come to us and we want to make sure that um you're able to do like the terms of production should you guys be greenlit right and if we are not like strong negotiators or it scares us should we be hiring a lawyer if that's not uh our wheelhouse you know it's it's kind of is a complicated um world sometimes and i i do understand that so my short answer is you don't always need a lawyer i'm happy to walk through um some of the terms and agreements having said that at the end of the day i represent the broadcaster and and i want to make sure that you guys are also feeling comfortable with the terms that you're getting into so if you're in doubt of sort of the um terms of your agreement like what the terms mean um your obligations your rights i the last thing i want is for any creator to feel taken advantage of either broadcaster in which case get a lawyer um if that's the case uh all i ask my only ask will ever be is get a canadian entertainment lawyer if you're going to hire somebody um the ones from the us are they're great lawyers don't get me wrong but sometimes they don't always understand the canadian landscape so a canadian entertainment lawyer will just they know what they're getting into they know what the broadcasters need they know sort of that landscape so you'll be better off for it um i did a deal i remember with an la lawyer maybe a few years ago and i'm pretty sure that that development deal like the legal bill was higher than what that development deal was for like i i wasn't i wasn't paying for it cbc wasn't paying for it it's the producers paying for that it's fine if that's who you want is your representation but just keep that in mind that that cost will be incurred by you that's a good point what about do you have any idea of how long the negotiation process takes before the money starts to flow in yeah so development agreements um in terms of when we can actually negotiate a development agreement they vary um so some development agreements take like a day to negotiate they're very straightforward there's nothing too complicated about it sometimes they take months depending on sort of the complexity involved the amount of parties that we need to pay um again once we get a deal done it probably takes about 15 to 21 days to pay on that but the big part is actually negotiating the deal at that point okay um you had mentioned earlier that uh it's like a 12-month option deal with the broadcaster so after that 12 months is up is there any any chance that it could be extended or that you know a new deal would be negotiated yeah so we try to extend before our options up um that's the idea but we could uh kind of put an additional phase past that point too again our big preference is to do it within that time period um but if as long as it's an active development with us we are happy to sort of extend things as they need to be okay and then once either the term ends or you pass on it uh can a producer go and pitch it to another broadcaster right away yeah that's sort of the deal um we do sort of have that credit and repayment obligation in there um so that would be the big thing is to make sure that you're adhering to that term great uh there's a question about writers um if the project is not if the writer is not uh part of the wgc yet will part of the development deal cover the the fee to join the the guild i haven't seen that before any fees to join the guild on uh agreement i think it's part of the fringes i might be wrong on that i'm not sure exactly um i do see fringes in there but i think it's an individual thing so i'm not sure if i'm answering that question correctly um but i haven't seen that and particularly outlined in an agreement okay and i think um just as an aside uh being a guild member i think the rates are pretty low to join um so do you know this you might not uh roughly how many projects or percentage of projects go into development that's a great question yeah that's a really great question um i think it depends on sort of the creative area and the like year uh that things are happening to be pitched um so it's never like if i give you a number it's never going to be right like i could tell you something now and it will change later um but yeah i think it depends on sort of the creative area what's sort of needed so in some years um i've seen like docs a lot of it goes into production but in other years like that doesn't happen so it really just depends on like what we require what our development slates look like um if we need more stuff more stuff goes into production if we need less stuff less stuff goes into production it's just as simple as that okay great there is a question that i think i'm going to skip i'm just going to say it though and explain why um someone is asking about like proof of concept or sizzle video before development um and i think it's just to clarify that nikki deals with things once they actually go into development all of that would be before like at your actual pitching stage which is when you're talking to production execs um so there's a question about uh if you could talk about what repayment looks like repayment um so should you be greenlit is that like yeah so should you be greenlit um so it depends on the amount of money that we put up into development it would be all the funds that we had sort of paid so if you're greenlit somewhere else contact us and then we can sort of arrange on how to do that um so if you were given like like twenty thousand dollars in development we would expect that money repaid um if you're getting five dollars in development again we would expect that money repaid doesn't matter on the amount it's just sort of that obligation and of course the credit as well um so someone is asking what a license fee is oh that's a very good question so um when we greenlight projects uh that is not always 100 paid for by cbc so it's not like we say hey your green lit here's a hundred percent of your cost of production and that's that amount that we would be putting forward is what we refer to as a license fee so the bells are negotiated at cbc and any broadcaster um other things that would also finance production it's considered tax credits and canada media fund there are sessions later on that will address some of that stuff a little bit more so i don't want to get into too much detail but license fee um your development amount is considered in advance on whatever license fee cbc is paying for so that's where license fees kind of come into play and development great there's a question about loi from cbc i don't know what loi is maybe letter of interest yes the question yeah i got it so letter of interest so what was question sorry um so someone has an loi for a half hour comedy and with a little bit of cmf money that they've now written a pilot and a bible so what will be the next step to uh helpful i guess fulfill a development phase yeah so i would say the first thing is contact your creative executive first um and then you can kind of go from there so i'm not sure if this one what this one particular says but that would be the first step is contact your creative exec and we can navigate from there great and with the deliverables who owns that material is it the producer is it the broadcaster yeah that's a very great question um so 99 of the time it's the uh producer who owns those materials um where we might have exceptions is for formats sometimes we do things um so formats like can't um what is it family feud uh was obviously one of our bigger formats that we've done um so uh sometimes formats they will have like for development they require the formats to be owned by that format holder it really does vary um so sometimes cbc has to hold the rights to that it just depends on the agreement um so again it's just it's not always straightforward but 99 of the time it's in my best interest to have the producer have the rights to their development materials as well so it's just sometimes there's a bit of exceptions for reasons that are outside of our control right and when cbc green lights a project are they covered under cbc's insurance no you would have to maintain your own insurance okay um i'm going to talk about just a little bit more about the budget and top sheets um there was just a question about that i know you referred to like going to the website um i guess especially for like a new creator producer are there any like do's and don'ts or things to look at it for yeah i think when you're creating your budgets just making sure that what you actually need at that stage is important um like i said i sometimes get especially from emerging creators like very extensive big budgets they just want to do so much in development but at the end of the day they're only going to get a finite amount from us in terms of production so never a good idea to sort of have to blow a lot of money in development if you can sort of save save for lack of a better term obviously it all has sort of purpose but again you just don't want to spend all your money in development you want to spend a good chunk of that to be seen on screen as well great um and working with a first-time writer um i guess this is from a producer how how would they work an option deal so if you're working with a first-time writer um i would say it's probably the same as you would with a more seasoned writer too i mean at the end of the day we're all professionals here and i think that's important is that we sort of all treated the same in that sense um but in terms of like what specifically you'd be looking at i wouldn't be able to really speak to that um i will say as a general rule is we don't pay for concepts at cbc so we sort of say it's a property with underlying value um so like a book if you're adapting a's i've seen sometimes like adaptions of like youtube series as long as there's something that's sort of there that exists um we'll pay for those option fees but as if it's just a concept or just an idea we tend not to see you still have to have sort of a deal in place to make sure you do have the rights to that but it's usually a nominal amount like five dollars three dollars something like that okay great um there's some questions about some numbers if you don't mind getting into that in our lives yeah um for consultants uh is there a ballpark uh that people should allocate for consultants so it depends on what the consultant's doing um i've seen consul consultants to me is the most like vague area of budgets because it varies so much um so like my favorite consultant fee i ever got on a budget it was a couple years ago we had a show about robots um and i saw this line item in there and i had no idea what this was it was called a robot handler and i was like what's a robot handler like so i had to call the producer and ask what a robot handler was so it turns out like robots kind of like animals have like people who sort of help fix it and like kind of it's a handler i don't really know how to explain it but that was like a mandatory cost that they had to pay in order to get access to these robots so i will always ask questions on that that's that was a consultant that was a consultant cost um so again it varies depending on the project uh i sometimes see story consultants as well so let's say you're doing like a story on like i'm just trying to think like mental health and addiction and then you have like a counselor coming in like that can be constructed story consultant too so i would say really like the consultant fees to me vary so much across the board um because it depends on how much they're actually bringing to the project how much time you're spending with them how much involvement they have in the materials and the scripts um so they do vary okay and it's that's something that we would talk to you about and kind of figure out what seems reasonable depending on who they are exactly like sometimes i see like an honorarium which is just sort of like a one-time fee sometimes i see day rates depending on how much how many days you're spending with them it so varies on the project okay great um and can you give us an idea of financial ranges for development funding like if it's a pilot and sees an outline or a bible yeah so i would say like the wgc is probably the best rate to kind of go to for script fees so that would be your best first stop on that and then we would talk about anything else that was sort of involved so if bibles again depends on who's sort of involved at that stage um and any story editing fees like again it's negotiable so we just have to kind of see everything holistically and kind of work from there is there like a minimum that's a good question and the answer is no i've done small deals like very small deals um and i've done very big deals so it just it doesn't there's no like it just depends really what the creative is right um and is it does it vary a lot between scripted and say doc series yes so definitely scripted series tend to be a little bit more um versus unscripted uh series um just at least at the development stage doesn't mean that's the case like throughout the entire production um but yeah generally speaking we do tend to see more development costs uh done at a scripted project than we do an unscripted one um and what happens to a project if it doesn't go into production uh and it's never produced does the funding still need to be repaid if it's never done no so if it's just sort of it's dead it's dead so we get that that's the cost of our doing business too right right okay great um i think we're almost done but um one question that i know comes up for a lot of new creators is um how how can they stay involved with the project once the development deal is signed and kind of protect ourselves so that we don't get cut out of the process yeah that's a good question i'm not really sure if i can answer that necessarily um it's sort of is it's one of those negotiations where i can tell you for a fact at least at cbc um we pick our teams very carefully and and have that consideration so if you like you had an idea and it's your story and then you were the one who was telling it i think it would be very important for us to have you continually involved um that's not always the case for every project though so i don't want to say like yes it's always important to have original creators create or sometimes leave projects sometimes they say you know what this isn't my thing anymore and that's that's okay like you're no one can force you to kind of stay on a on a deal if you don't want to be involved um but that's sort of what's there so it's just i think it's important that we kind of talk about it at that stage but again i i can tell you for a fact if if some if there's a particular voice that was sort of needed at a stage of development we would want that throughout the entire stage that's very reassuring um and what about um like if for if it's a newer producer would you still kind of work with them or would you want them to team up with a more senior producer i like working with emerging creators personally i think it's super important um i would say sometimes it's in a producer's best interest to kind of pair up with a more seasoned creator but i always joke i get better budgets from emerging creators because they spend more time on them so it's just it really does vary um but it's i do like working with emerging creators yes there's sometimes a bit of hand holding like anything if as soon as you're new at something but i can tell you for a fact we're definitely okay with that i work with emerging creators all the time they're usually my most favorite like producers or creatives to work with amazing thank you uh one i think we can sneak in one last question maybe [Laughter] um can you build in life rights for into your budget it's a very good question and i think it depends on the project i don't want to like put a blanket like yes or no um it really depends on the project um we have uh journalistic standards and practices that are available online so sometimes we may not want you to pay for relief rights on a documentary it sort of depends so i highly encourage you to look at those resources um because i will ask you to adhere to that if you're doing a documentary with cbc thank you we've run out of time so i'd like to direct people to the business and rights cbc website where we'll be posting any further uh answers or resources and thank you so much nikki for this amazing talk it totally demystified development deals with cbc for me and hopefully for others um and just a reminder that tomorrow's session is at 2pm est but building a production budget so hope to see you there thank you

2021-01-22 20:10

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