Blockchain Technologies Conference - Part 2
Right. Welcome back second. Half of our program includes. A fascinating. Panel discussion. We've. Got six panelists, who represent, very, diverse. Industries. Background, experiences. Even. Perspectives. And in how they view blockchain, and related, technologies, I, will. Hand the, the panelists, the panel will be led by our moderator, dr. David, Krause. And. And they will discuss where the puck is moving. From. The perspective, of adoption, of blockchain. In a variety of industries. Dave. Krause is, assistant, professor of practice in finance, at Marquette, since. 2004. Dave has served as a director of a very prestigious. Applied. Investment, management program, that allows, a select, group of finance majors, to get hands-on. Academic. And financial analysis. Experience. Including. An opportunity. To actively manage domestic. And international, equity. And finance income portfolios. Dave. Will moderate the panel till. The end of this session today, Dave. It's over to you. Thank. You Monica. Hello. Everyone and welcome again to the Milwaukee blockchain, conference, and a Marquette University, I personally. Found the first sessions. To be very informative. And lightning, I certainly, learned a lot and I hope you did too I, teased Lamont before he came on stage that. He had a tough act to follow, while, do. I have a tough act to follow with, both of those I saw, them on signing autographs and, back okay. Is. He still here because I got news for. Hockey, actually, had forward, contracts. Which will refer, to as futures before, Chicago. I've. Done that research about by 18 months so we're. Closely aligned with Chicago, is very good to hear all the positive, things that are taking place in our, respective areas, here and, with regard to technology. So, very. Exciting, opportunities, for all of us to work together. All. Right so you're wondering what. World is a finance. Guy doing, with, a distinguished. Tech panel that we have here but, one thing about finance that most, of us know is we, have to be forward-looking as, investors. We have to invest our money today, but. It's based upon future, performance, so. We very much care about disruptive. Technology. We. Want to be investing, in companies that aren't, going to get overrun, by Amazon. We. Want to own the future Google's, so. We're very interested in learning more about blockchain, so. I for one don't, have answers but I have lots of questions and I know you're, likely to as well. So. Where, did that concept, of following the puck come from I try. To explain this to my students, they don't know who Wayne Gretzky, is anymore, but he was the great one greatest. Hockey. Player of, all time, scored. At a prolific, rate. Undoubtedly. The best player at that sport, we've ever seen and very. Humble guy but he was attributed, with this quote when once asked, about his success, and. He said I skate. To where the puck is going not. Where it's been that's. What we're trying to do here and that's sort of why the theme here where's, the puck going. Where's blockchain, going, a, lot of interesting, things taking place right now it's great to get the history of where Bitcoin. The blockchain came, from I care, more about 2018. And 2019 and, 2020 right. Now and, I think a lot of you do as well with regard to your companies and your careers, I. Don't. Know if you heard the bumper music that was being played, all right there was a Dylan. Song and, there was also guns and roses all right so, what's the significance of, that well, first of all like. Dylan. Said the, times they really aren't changing, I think, there's a sea change. Activity. Taking place that's, going to disrupt. Financial. Services, health, care the. Legal profession. On and on including, higher ed, and. Then why the guns and roses well. As you, know Axl Rose and Guns and Roses were in town this week they, performed for over three hours nothing. Like good Milwaukee, work ethic rate but. As. We well know from their most famous song and lyrics where, do we go now and that's really what I want, our panel to be doing for us right now trying, to help us figure out where. Do we go now, so. What we're gonna do I'm gonna start out with a question for each other, an introduction, of each of our guests and then, I'll start out with a question we'll, work our way through the, panel sort of rinse and repeat work, through the six. Guests, that we have here and we really want to open it up to, you the audience I thought there were great questions asked, by, many of you during the first sessions.
Here We'll, have plenty of time for you to talk to these people who, are very knowledgeable about block chain particularly. With respective, industries, so. Again being true to applied we can dig a little deeper, than, just generalities. We can get into some of the industries. So. What I'm going to do is I'm going to start with our first, expert. Panelist. Bob. Cornell Bob is the lead emerging, technology, analyst at Northwestern, Mutual, Bob. Joined Northwestern, Mutual in 2016. And works, in research and digital innovation, as, part. Of his role he is the primary, blockchain. Researcher, for NMM which. Is a fortune 100 company. Located in Milwaukee, prior. To joining Northwestern. He, held positions, in corporate strategy, business development. And competitive, intelligence. And. Bob was a part of the M&A, team that, did over two billion dollars, of healthcare. Software related. Acquisitions. He's, an active investor, he, currently holds five issued, patents. With four others in a pending status, so. It's a pleasure to have Bob here so, ready. To go how's your cold. So. Bob. It's been said that blockchain. Is going, to do for the financial, system what the internet, did, to. Media it's. Gonna facilitate. And enable the movement of money and, contracts. Similar, to what the internet did, to. Media and data. So. Bob this is a real general question I think it's fair, to start since your background as being the primary researcher. For MN l is, this really a game changer I mean are we you, know is this something that is going to happen but maybe not as, fast as we think it is you, know how quickly, is this coming I I don't think from what I heard today that this is fake news I think it's real but, sort of the question is where. Is this Hannity and you, could put it in the context, of your experiences, maybe with the NFL sure. Everybody. Hear me okay okay fantastic, great to be with you this morning I, think it was Bill Gates has said we tend to underestimate the. Overestimate. The amount of change that will happen in the next year or two but underestimate, the amount of change will happen the next 10 I think, that's a truism when, it comes to blockchain. Distributed, ledger, so. I like. The introduction said I've been with nm since 2016. Very early 2016. Very. Focused, on this space and so this is just kind of an anecdotal observation, but I've really noticed an inflection, point probably. Mid this year. 2016. It seemed like there were niches. Where this was starting to brew some some. Interesting levels, of interest. But, moving. Into 2017, it seems like the. Fact that we can fill a hall like, this a couple weeks ago I was in Chicago there, was a similar hall filled as over capacity they had turned 60 people away.
The, Momentum, is growing I think the realization, of what the potential here is or, what it could be is growing. And is uh getting. Some traction there I, think. It. Would be fair to say that yes, this is going to have that kind of transformational. Potential. For. Kind of the fabric, of global commerce, but. There. Are some other hindrances. I'll call them speed bumps I guess on. That path so think. The long lines of. Turi patchworks, regulatory, uncertainty. That's, something, that isn't really clear at this point some. Some regulators have come out and issued. Some guidance, but I I. Would challenge do, any of you feel comfortable that you have a crisp, view of the, regulatory environment, with. Which he would have to to interact with. Confidence. I, would, presume, that the answer I probably nowhere I'm not sure. Also. The fact that there's the, lack of real, interoperable, standards, between. Different, chains. That's. Something, that really needs to be worked through as well. So. Those are just some high level kind of, yes. The potential is there but. We have some speed bumps and kind of an intermediate, term that we, would have to, overcome. As well to to really reach that you. Know I know and I'm Northwestern. Mutual's not a publicly traded company and. So I'm not gonna get in trouble with the SEC, for asking you to, reveal, non-public. Material, information, but what. Ways is this going to find, its way into the insurance industry. It's. A fair question I. Think. That. Isn't still an open question I haven't cracked that I'm. Not sure people have, so. I. Think, you're probably going to see it nip around the edges so. Potentially. And this, is not an NM, statement this is just a bob observation. Kind of a, hypothesis. Here but things. Around facilitating. Payments whether that's payment of premium something like that the, discussion. Around the. The, fees associated with credit cards was mentioned earlier, the. Fact that you can transmit. Currency. Funds, assets. Whatever you want to call them, seamlessly. With, very low cost that's. That's probably one of the first plays that you would might see it start entering, right. Thanks. Bob we'll move on to our next panelist. Bill Kara her he's. The chief information officer. About roper, a Milwaukee, area law firm he has over 20 years of experience, managing. And supporting technology. Within his enterprise as the. Chief information officer. And director of operations. Bill's, passionate, about innovation. And business, focused, technology. Solutions, that, empower the, firm's attorneys, and support. Their clients, under. His leadership Vaughn. Bryson was the first Wisconsin, law firm to implement artificial, intelligence, with, IBM, Watson. Based solutions, the. Firm is researching, uses, for blockchain, and related. Emerging technologies, to keep ahead of the curve as a. Marquette, alumnus, bills, currently an adjunct instructor, in, the College of Business and is created, and taught course, on technology at. Marquette law school the. Recipient, of various, technology, Awards bill, was most recently named, chief. Information. Officer. Of the year did I slip and say investment. Officer. Information. Ok good, that's, my asset. Management background sneaking. In here chief, information officer. Of the Year by the Milwaukee Business Journal. All. Right bill pleasure to have you here it's, been said that one.
Of The industries, that's, likely to be the most impacted, by blockchain. Is the legal profession. With. Smart contracts. We. Know that the potential for, basic. Legal, services, such as writing. Wills and trusts, and participating. In real estate transactions. Might, actually disappear. Or a blockchain might, supplant. We, also know that regulatory. And, other issues are gonna crop up that'll probably create, an increased. Demand for legal expertise, in the area of blockchain, so, help. Us understand, more about how blockchain, is going to impact your. Life in the legal industry. Great. Thank you happy to be here as well and I'm. Also a DePaul alumni, so. Now. That was my undergrad, so. In the legal industry, I've, got a bunch of notes here I don't want to but, we're we're kind of at Year Zero or, maybe year -1 when it comes to blockchain liked academia, and you know legal, tends to follow or, not. Be a leader, and, that's, intentional you, know we are in, the, area of law were. We're. Interpreting the laws were, we're. Defending the laws and, the laws are definitely, also behind technology, you know when you think of even the Communications. Act and how, far behind that is with social media and everything else so you. Know we're at a disadvantage, when, it comes to that but now. First to market movers and that's okay Apple is usually, not first to market either so. I see legal with two specific, paths and opportunities, when it comes to blockchain so, first I see solutions, solutions. That make the, legal. Process, and the serving. Of clients, better more, efficient, adding value to clients and then, the second would be the opportunities, and challenges within, the law itself. And. The shifts, in expertise, so lawyers, that had previously, done. Basic, contract, law may. Shift, their expertise, into, blockchain. Smart, contract, law something like that so, first. So the applications, and solutions I would, say you, know there's tens of thousands, of law firms every, company. Of any size is, also, engaged with either a corporate, internal, counsel, or they, have outside counsel so lawyers. Are driving. A lot of business regardless, of you know your your thoughts on on the industry but. You, need representation. Even. If you're a startup using Legal Zoom you. Are involved, in the illegal industry, and consumer, of legal services so. How, are you, know they're already being disrupted, with things like Legal Zoom kind. Of feeding back here in the context of blockchain, there's a hundred there's hundreds of startups already trying, to compete for this not of smart contracts, of how, do we, authenticate. Users, how do we record transactions. In a. Blockchain situation. So we, don't want to just forget that there's you. Know the startup movement and legal there, are hundreds. Of established. Vendors, already, providing, legal solutions. And applications, to law firms and corporate legal departments so, those. Vendors, and solution, providers are not sitting idle they're already developing, solutions. As well so we have the startup space focus, on legal we have the established. Vendors focused, on legal all coming. Up with great ideas and. Suggestions. You, know the smart contract just to walk through because we haven't really stepped through a scenario, but, let's, take the example of a will or an estate plan so traditionally. You meet with an attorney to go through a questionnaire okay. You have assets, and you want to distribute those assets, at the point of your death in. A smart contract situation you also answer those questions, but the contract, itself, would. Distribute, the assets you wouldn't have to meet with a trustee you wouldn't have to meet with the attorney after, your, family members wouldn't have to meet after your death the, contract, would execute your, wishes. Automatically. Now, that's kind, of scary territory, when you think about it so you've got a contract, that, is waiting.
For You to die and waiting. And waiting for it okay, and how. Do you authenticate. Someone's, debt you, know the the recording. Of death certificates. In. The government, processes, and we're back to centralized, government, maintaining. Authentication. On your debt okay. So we, have to solve that problem first, how do we authenticate your death and then, the contract, will go out and validate that death has occurred and now execute, based upon that so that's distributing. Removing. Money from accounts and distributing. Wealth. To other accounts they're taking assets, like homes and and vehicles. And changing, title, automatically. And registering, it to the exit, it's a very complicated thing when you think about it so if you ever hear of someone, saying yeah we're in a law firm or using smart contracts, well ask some more questions because, in the context, of a will or an estate plan this, is a very, complicated process and I, guarantee, that there's no law firm out there doing smart wills like. This the. Technology, just isn't there yet to authenticate. All these little steps so there's. A lot out there but when we talk about smaller contract our firm has been using smart contracts Robert years but, it's not tied to the blockchain so. Smart contracts, and the fact that just in this example. We. Do a it's. Almost like follow the story so you do an interview with someone and say I want my, wealth to be distributed, in this way and in. This regard but, ok you have to ask a question are you married or are you single ok, that opens. Up different sections of the document if you're single then, these statutes, apply if you're married and what, state you live in what state are you registered, in ok, then these sections of the contract apply so we already have that technology, and it's, just applying it to blockchain. Technology, so, great. Examples, with with you, know challenges. And what's, going on that, second, opportunity, and, I'll just wrap, up quickly because I don't want to take everybody's time but is, the changes in the law and the changes in, case. Law the changes in statutes. And the changes in expertise. Of the legal individual, that you go to your attorney, so.
We've. Talked about today blockchain, is a trust framework, right the. Attorney-client. Relationship is. Also a trust framework, when you think about it you tell your attorney, secrets. That you don't want anyone else to know and attorneys. Are bound by the attorney-client privilege. By law they cannot disclose. Those. Secrets. That you have told them to. Anyone else and so, that's a trust relationship so, if we're now transferring, that trust relationship to, something like the blockchain even. Something is minut, as an engagement letter you, come to me you want me to represent you, as your attorney I'm. Gonna fill out a letter that says you and I agree that now I'm your attorney if I file that letter, that has no detail other than you've come to me for legal representation I save, that to the blockchain that's, now a public, record if I'm, Rockwell, Automation and, I want to sell my company to, ABC, Corp I've, filled out an engagement letter on the blockchain that's public information about, a public company that. Can be scary right ok it's encrypted well great who has the keys, so. These are questions we have to think about when we say. We're going to start engaging the blockchain in a, very private, and confidential relationship. These. Are challenges we have to think about overcome before we say yep, we're turning over our law firm in our our confidential. Information to, this. System, whether, it's open closed public private these. Are questions that have to be answered so lots, of challenges very, excited to be here and you, know look. Forward to more discussion, all. Right thanks, will for. All of you teaches. The course in the law school and in the business school so. Glad. To have you on our side, Lamont. You know once I looked like you I, used. To beat 6-3, and. Have. Hair at hands and all that you didn't. Someday. You'll be. Our. Next expert, is Michael, Adam he's the chief executive officer, a bank, my biz and the founder of dot, launch, he's. A seasoned, fin tech entrepreneur, with a passion, for innovation in, 2013. Michael founded, Bank, my biz comm and online. Lending platform, the partners with traditionals, banks, nationwide, to help them better serve their, small business banking customers. In, 2015. Michael founded not, launched, a software, solution that streamlines, corporate, electronic, documentation. Signature. Identification. And payments processing. Not. Launch is among the first enterprise, level software solutions. That. Uses blockchain, and distributed, ledger and. It's. Used in the banking, and technology. Financial services, industry, Michael, consults, with banks across the globe on technology, strategy, and, prior to launching his company spent a decade as a commercial lender specializing. In technology. So. Michael. I think this is an industry that's right in the crosshairs right now I mean. Blockchain. We've, heard can untangle the web loan, documentation. It, can shift Global Payments, onto, the blockchain, it. Can digitize, modernize. Global, trade, finance, and it, can improve identity. Verification of, customers, and counterparties, in, other words it's got to transform, the whole banking industry, it sounds like what. Do you think about that can you enlighten us on banking, in the blockchain yes absolutely, thank you for having me here. So. It's, very interesting because and. A, lot of industries we talk about blockchain as, what. Will happen in banking, I think we're in a unique place, because we could talk about what is already happening so, in, the banking and financial institutions industry. This. Technology, is already being implemented I'm. Sure many of you have heard of our three consortium, which, is a large group of corporations. From. The top banks in the world being part, of that and. They're looking into creating their block chains already. So. If you think in, a financial, institution there. Are any. On the size of the bank evenness community bank there, are thousands, and thousands of documents and, transactions. That happen daily. I'm. Gonna put in a simple context, if you think of just, like a small-scale. Scenario, if you have bank a bank B, and Bank C and. They're, all working with one customer so. We might have a mortgage here a car loan there. Some. Investment, products here. So. There's a tangled, web of interactions, between all those the, banks don't they're not sharing that information right now in, fact if you apply for have any but it has anybody here applied for a small business loan ever or, any type of loan and you needed a personal financial statement.
And. You went to one bank I said this. Your personal financial servant must be filled out on our, Associated. Bank letterhead, and then. You go to another Bank said your, personal financial statement must be filled out on our JPMorgan. Letterhead why. I have, a personal financial statement, I'm just writing down the same thing so. In, this tangled, web we have all these interactions and. That's. Just three. Banks, and, one person now, think globally, you, have hundreds. Of thousands, of banks and billions, of customers. But. The banks want to do is have, this information, seamlessly interact with each other they, want to talk to each other not. Only for. Their own purposes, but for the purpose as a customer, as well they want to have the customers user experience, be, better. As. Far as global payments, this, is something that's also already. In existence so, the. Royal, Bank of Canada is. Now experimenting. Some, blockchain, payment, movements with between the United States and Canada so. That technology is is, already existing and will become more robust as as, technology. Develops. You. Mentioned global trade this. Is also something that speed, of payments, but its speed of I, guess. Ownership and transfer, so, in the 1920s. A New York Stock Exchange we. Talked about like t + 5 so transaction, + 5 days and. That's where that's, where we were in the 1920s, and then, in, 1995. Ish we. Went to cheat + 3 miraculously, why because, the internet came around so that allowed. Us to take, our reducer. Time of the, transfer of ownership and, payment of that. Of. That stock, we, made much faster the, blockchain where we're thinking is going is hopefully. We had t + 0 so, happened instantaneously, so it's going to be huge fat. On. The global market and global, trade. Which. Is all very interesting. Identity. Verification I know mark talked about it you. Know quite extensively. It's. Giving. Power back to, to, you the individual. Hopefully. At one point you'll be able to just. Hold all of your records and have all your information and, give. It to whoever you think is, worthy. Of it so let's say you. Spill a small business loan application. You've. Already done all the paperwork just like so with the personal financial statement, you have to give a bank a, personal. Financial statement, 2 years business tax returns two years credit tech to your personal tax returns, up-to-date, P&L and some other supporting, financial documents. You. Have to do that. Every. Time you apply for something the. Same documents, will apply some of those will say it'll apply if you need to carlo, same. Documents apply if you're looking at some type of investment, to be applauded some type of financial institution so. If we put all this on I, won't. Say distributed, ledger because it's going to be a private, ledger. In this industry for a while until it gets to scale but. That, makes those transfers of the documents, so much easier and for. You having your digital identity makes, it so much for you the consumer because you're not having to dig up and dredge up this information all the time. So. How is it going to affect banking I think it's, really. Gonna affect banking, and that's what we're concentrating and, with a dock launch I mean our whole, whole. Mission. Is to one. Streamline, the efficiencies, of the banks but. Then also. Making. The user experience for the bank customers, better and. By. Using and implementing, implementing, blockchains and smart contracts, and payment, solutions all right thank, you Michael. One of my colleagues is in the audience dr. Kent Velasco, who is the director. Of our relatively. New commercial, banking program and, I know that come January, I believe we're going to have another forum, somewhat, like this but focused, on the. Impact, of technology in, the world of commercial banking so stay, tuned for that we're. Going to continue to offer, opportunities like, this to, advance, our knowledge, our. Next expert, is, Krrish. Ramachandra. Senior. Manager, for markets and solutions. At Whitley and accounting.
And Business consulting, firm with offices throughout, the United States Krrish. Is one of the leaders within Whitley's, technology. Consulting, division focused. On helping companies transform. Their business through, technology. Leveraging. His experience, and knowledge of FinTech he, helps financial, institutions. FinTech. Startups and, investors to, collaborate, and establish, sound business working models. Let's. See Krrish, you know I've, heard that supply. Chain is, going to be one of the areas that, is going. To be most, quickly. Impacted. By. Blockchain. Can you talk about that I know you have a world of business experience, and also, we haven't we've. Mentioned cybersecurity, a few times but not yet in the context, of this discussion so, feel, free to address either or, both of those topics all, right. So. We flee is, an accounting, and consulting firm, and I'm a technology, consultant and, I'm having, the best. Of times a technology. Consultant could have. The. Reason why. Because. I think accounting. And audit, is going, through the most exciting, time in the last 600 years since, the end of 15th, century, after the double-entry bookkeeping was invented. Today. The. Reason why Whitley got interested, in blockchain, is you, know someone out of a fear that no. I think Lamont. Was mentioning, you know if. Everything, is if, blockchain, is going to deliver everything, that it is promising, then. Perhaps, the government is going to tell you how much tax you owe or how much refund, you go and the government is going to give you the tax to, you back. Auditing. And accounting if, everything. Is going to be on blockchain, well. In 10 to 15 years yeah we might see a significant, change, alright, that's about. My time in with Lee so. Coming. To supply. Chain you know with Lee works in multiple, industries so supply chain logistics manufacturing. Is, one of the biggest industries that, we work with. Before. I go into very specifics, of supply chain you know how many of you here really, are serious, about your coffee. All. Right there you go so. What, I meant was how many of you are serious, about how. It is bright how it is roasted where it is sold and what kind of Labor was used to source coffee and, how. It is supplied, to, your and. How. Many of you here are serious, about the. Apparel you are wearing is not manufactured. Using some, unethical means. Or child labor or whatever how many of you are serious, about it, well. Some of you are. A. Survey. Says a significant. Number of Millennials, are very serious about the products, that you are using whether. They are produced, using ethical, means whether they are produced using, the. Corporate standards, they are made and. I believe, blockchain, is going to make a significant. Impact in the, way. In. The way that it is ensured that you know whatever we are consuming. Today, you know they are made using. Some corporate standards, that are generally. Accepted. There. Are multiple uses of pop chain that I see. In. Generally, in supply chain, the. Biggest is you know to. Make sure that the corporate standards, are met. Second. Biggest use I see is you know reducing, of cause, you know already, using. The. Use of counterfeit. Products, and the. Malpractice is related. In great market. Making. Sure you're outsourced manufacturing, contracts. Are met properly. Reduction. Of paperwork. So, they're so on and so forth, so. Essentially. Wherever, there, is a centralized, trust, based Authority, or. Wherever. There is very, complex, way of tracking. In it in practice, today blockchain. Can be used to. Gain efficiencies. So supply. Chain perfectly, fits the, you. Know where there is complex, regulations. Wherever, there are very complicated needs. Of monitoring. And traceability.
Wherever. There is a need for better, transparency, better, transparency, where is a better demand, for transparency. So. That's, where the blockchain is going to play a key role in supply, chain, one. Of the best. Case studies that we, heard recently some, of you already may, be aware of that, Deloitte. Partner with, I, think it's DNV, GL. To. Put about 90,000. Shipping. Certificates, on blockchain. So. Adoption, of blockchain, is already. Happening in supply chain. People. Are pretty serious about. Reducing. Paperwork, and all the other reasons that I just mentioned the traceability, and transparency. Are going, to be pretty big, so, those. Are my views on supply, chain and using, blockchain on supply chain okay, thank you Christian. Well. Give, the people what they want alright I'm, gonna introduce will. Pegman who's the founder of Bitcoin. Milwaukee and a partner and torus, vision, wills, a passionate, entrepreneur, he's, an active proponent of Bitcoin education. And boy. Do a lot of us need to get schooled up on Bitcoin. In a hurry or anything crypto, currencies. All. Right well. Blockchain. Crypto, currencies, initial. Coin offerings, icos. Look, I did I'm a finance, professor and I'm still struggling, with the, ability to explain, the. Value of, a cryptocurrency. Whether. It's an asset, or a. Payment. Stream. How. In the world these, IPO icos, are being created. The. Other thing that's going on I it's very difficult for me a valuation. Expert, to, try to explain. 7,500. Dollars for. A Bitcoin I have. Enough trouble trying to explain. Gold, and commodity, pricing let alone Bitcoin, and. Then. Feels. Like a bubbling. Times something's, going on right now two. Companies, in the, last week. Have. Added. The name blockchain. To. The name of their company one. Is up 400%. And, the, other is up 200%. As, some of you remember the dot-com, bubble where all's he had to do was an. Economy. That. Was even better than if you made money. Kind. Of feels a little frothy, here will help me out all right now. I, could. Be here everybody is a just. A wonderful event so, congratulations. To all the organizers I'm, thrilled. To be here, such. A great group of panelists, and other speakers as well. It is frothy right, now it's, it's easy to see. My. View is that there's still tremendous, Headroom. In this current cycle, and. There's. Lots, of thoughts and reasonings, for that but just, to get right down to it you know the valuation question is really important, I. Thought, you, know Lamont slides were really excellent at talking about where bitcoins, value comes. From and. If. You were inferring that from some of his slides I think that was that was helpful to a great degree. Really. It. Comes from a lot of areas you know it comes from the fact that it's mathematically. Secured. As opposed to by, decree. It, comes from, the fact that it's. Distributed, around the world it's unkillable. It. Comes from the fact that. There's. A network effect so. You. Know. On. Facebook for example you, guys are weird on, Facebook as a user of Facebook but, Facebook has, a business model and, you're. A part of it you're, actually a product in their business model so. And, they've done a fantastic job of attracting. Users. To this network and providing, value to users, you know as a new stream as a connection, to old friends making.
New Friends around the world joining communities, you could have never been, a part of before so. Blockchain. Bitcoin, really inspired all this this is a way. To derive network, effect so jumping. All the way ahead to kind of icos same. Thing, people. Who. Have an idea where, they. Are intending, to create the kind of platform, economy, for, an application, or for some some big project, concept they have it. Makes a lot of sense if. You're going to kind of create your own economy, with you. Know with, your user base and your network to, launch. Your own money and, you. Know it's. Analyzing. The history of this again some of law lamont slides were excellent on this but. There's. A, there's. A lot of value in the network not, just and you're getting people to pay to use things but getting them to you. To. Be on the platform and so i think if. You look at the valuation, of Bitcoin in that light, and. If it's going to reach even 5%. Of the promises, it has offered. So far, there's. A huge, upside you. Know there's probably maybe, 10 million users of Bitcoin in the world today maybe that's a little low. Active. Users as is what I'm saying and. If. You think about that number and, cryptocurrencies, as a whole maybe like another three or five million on top of that who, are maybe interested in using Bitcoin but so, we've 15 million users actively, probably. There's. Tremendous upside from, the valuation, side of things there of, course I CEOs are getting, a lot of notoriety. And. Infamy. Perhaps, probably, because of just. Much. Like the dot-com bubble there, is so, much. Interest. Out there people. Are throwing, everything they can at the wall to see what sticks so. Really. I want to just kind, of talk a little bit about icos and then close. With just. Some some kind of thoughts and maybe suggestions, for the further group but, there's. There's, tons of opportunity, here and there's, tons of scams and there's, a lot of non. Scams, that are just bad ideas and don't. Need a token and you, know it doesn't apply for the business, but. And. That's what so what that's what we're seeing today but, tokens. Can do lots of things you, you, know in order to be compliant some of these projects, are registering. Their token as a security because. That's the, way they want to use. That token in their. Platform. There's, limitless, ways to, use tokens, to do things in a platform and so this is another huge green pasture, and. The SEC guidance, that came out a couple months ago basically. You. Know gave. A blank check to all these entrepreneurs, saying if you are creative, and you're, going, to do, your best to not be a security or if you are register, there's. Tons, and tons of ways, to apply this technology, so it. Is a huge green pasture, and it, is very frothy and bubbly right now on Monday. We had we, the the, ecosystem, saw 400 new icos launched on Monday, so. Next. Monday it maybe more and in, q1 of next year it will be more.
And. That's. That's not stopping you'll see legacy existing, companies launching, tokens like you saw with the kick messenger app and there's some others and, there's. Some interesting things you'll see with the crowdfunding space, and regulated, crowdfunding, if anyone's familiar with title 3 or the JOBS Act this, is something that it, was a really good thing actually in the u.s.. To. Allow entrepreneurs. To, you. Know to allow average. People to get, access to high-performing, investments, like, ventures. New ventures and also, to, allow. Entrepreneurs to get access to the crowd where they otherwise, are trudging up Sand Hill Road and striking. Out a lot so, this is this. Is excellent for the for that reason as well I SEOs kind of puts that on steroids into, the moon and everything right. So. The. I, guess there's, ways to do this regulatory. Compliant. In the US as a US founder and there's. A number of ways that will, become new. Ways to do this as well I would like to see title. 3 of the JOBS Act I'd like to see someone tokenize, an, offering, on title 3 so just give, you some ideas and. Yeah. So in. Closing I SEOs, are not. Going away the. Bubble is probably gonna, blow up bigger and. If. You're involved, you know that's that's what the work I do now I consult. With companies on this and help them kind of from idea to exit, with, with, these kinds of. Designing. These these, sorts of raises this is a new investment, vehicle and it's it's going to be fascinating to see how, much value. It unlocks, and how much wealth it creates so. Good. Thank, you will we're all gaining a lot of knowledge today in, different areas I'm, involved with the make a difference, Wisconsin. Group, as I know a number of you are in the room, we've, gone, into, underserved. Communities. To, try to educate. Middle. School and high school students. About proper, fiscal. Management, financial. Literacy. And. Thing about it we're going into these classrooms. Talking. About checks, and, check registers, I mean. I think version. 2.0. We, need to be going into, our schools and educating, about. Current. Currencies. And current. Electronic, and other payment practices so, we'll I'm going to solicit. Your support for that and, get you involved okay thanks so thank you. Wow. Derek, you, know I did the math I could, be your grandfather, you know that it's. Depressing and. Look, at this he's the only one with a tie on all, right I gotta, make up the age difference huh. Derek's, the UWM, undergrad. He's, a finance student he's. The chief financial officer of Quay no G, he's. Not even old enough to legally drink no as I said legally, Jerry. His. Firm Plano G is a blockchain Capital. Markets company, it's a leading professional. Trading platform, for blockchain, exchanges, around the world world with. Over 200 million in assets controlled. And 1. Billion in July trading, volume alone, coinage. E has grown to be a trusted, brand by, thousands, of users globally, besides. His firm in 2015. He was one of the earliest team members, at storage. A decentralized. Cloud, storage, network, utilizing. Blockchain, technology. I. Always. Bring speakers into my classroom I'm applied professor. I, brought. Derek in about, a month ago and it, was fascinating I, mean, Derek. Talked about blockchain, technology. Having. Profound, effects, on the future of financial, markets capital, fundraising, product. And business models, and networks. So. Derek, talked, a little bit about coinage e yeah don't, do the blatant bad here ok, fundraising. Are you know ok good you. Don't want to buy any securities, laws but, you know talk about some, of the recent. Events to the CME. And other, exchanges. Now are going, to create, Bitcoin. And other cryptocurrencies, indices. You, know bring us up to speed on what's, going on in that part, of the market yeah. So. Coins we started in 2014, it. Was basically like I said kind of an aggregation, tool for all the exchanges around the world just. This month we broke or not we but the ecosystems, a whole we're approaching equity market values in terms of volume. About. 300 billion dollars in the markets expanding, accordingly. Itself some, updated figures we're, doing about a half a billion in assets right now about, 2 billion in volume for. A pretty small Milwaukee company of five people at our full time in. Terms of kind of looking at the market will. Touching a lot of the ICO stuff I won't go too much into that since, we are in that kind area we trade those assets and users can use our platform to trade those it's. A scary scary place to be since we're kind of on the portal, side of it seeing all that come through and. To, date as far as I know more. Money has been raised in that model and I cos anything raised in venture capital as a whole globally. So more money has been given to these projects, and from andreessen horowitz, and all the beach here country capital around the world, which.
Means They're not doing due diligence on these things they don't have an MVP, there. Might be like a white paper and like two guys in a garage which. Is the 1990s, again so. I do think there are like the Amazons and the googles and the Facebook's that, are in the space already and they're already here but, I don't know what those are I don't think really anybody, knows what those are. And. In terms going from kind of a more philosophical. Point. Of view looking, at it from kind of a business model, traditionally. Either raised equity or raised debt in the market, if. You can raise like a token that's used in your software it's an entirely new service, and kind, of product if you will, within. Coinage. II we, had trade those assets and seeing in terms of like going from kind of your point of view Dave's, point of view and the valuation, of these you can't run a DCF model, in one of these you can't run like a bond payout model you, can't run the GDP of a country to find the currency of it the value of the currency. In. Terms of like valuing, Bitcoin I have no idea how to do it and you could talk about the utility value in terms of it takes computing power and opportunity cost to value it. So whatever the electricity, cost is and the computing cost is that's like your base utility, value it's like the book value is the kind of the word I like to use and then there's, like the ongoing utility, of that so you can pay globally, what is that worth to you to pay my friend. In the Philippines, that can't get a bank from Western Union or anything, and. Then there's the speculative value which is probably why, seven and a half thousand dollars right now. And. Then from a, business. Operational, model. Working. In this space and actually a real company gets paid in the space it's, really really scary to manage, risk and everything and then. On the risk side of things with the CME, and, the CBOE, launching, futures. Hopefully. We're gonna be able to track that they. Want to have it to mitigate risk everyone knows that derivatives, and options are actually now, used, to take, on more risk. Interestingly. Enough, if you really dig into the nitty-gritty the, CME futures are only daily settlements, so you can't trade in minutes minute. And then, I mean there's those companies now have derivative, spot options on this stuff I. Don't know where that's really gonna go I mean the SEC has to come in here more and actually get like a regulation in the back end of everything. But. Like, will said I mean there is a lot of frothiness in this, where. It's going to stop or where it's gonna kind of downturn, I have no idea I don't know anybody really knows I don't, think any of us are smart enough to know that, but. It's an interesting space to be in. Fascinating. So here we had for, our six, experts, representing. Specific. Industries, insurance. Accounting. Banking. And. Our. Cryptocurrency. I. Found. This fascinating as, well, as the presentations, this morning here's. An opportunity now to open, up the floor for questions, you're, sitting here with six experts, who are on a regular. Basis, daily, responsible. For providing. Internal. As well as external consulting. And advice. For their clients. And employers. So. Please. Let's. See, if there's some questions from the floor right now. So. Would. You sort of summarize the question yep, so, the question was you know today we use IOT. Devices to. Gather data to, monitor, the supply chain and how do you secure. Now. What chain will not solve that problem, watching. Well watching, itself, can, be pretty secure. I don't. Think blockchain, can solve the problem. Of security with IOT devices, itself, I think that's that's a problem that IOT, devices have to deal with. Well. IOT, you know opens up a whole new debate so. Let's not. So. The, data on blockchain is secure. But. IOT. Devices I don't, know how to answer that specific, question that's an IOT question that's not a watching. Well. Again. Summarize the question so everyone can hear it well. The, question is you know there is a limitation of using blockchain, to supply chain because it is limited by the. Threat of somebody. Hacking into IOT, devices. That's. Coming in I, agree. But. You know that is again an evolution, in, the in. The synergy, of different, technologies, coming together so. You, know that's. That kind of leads, itself into the question of what are the limitations, of using blockchain, you know or what.
Comes In the way of adoption, of blockchain, so. What. Comes in the way of adoption, blockchain, one is education you, know the, the mindset, has to shift significantly. The. Second one is the building or scaling up of ecosystems. Such as IOT, devices itself, or. Interoperability. With, other systems, you know blockchain, cannot you know just. Operate, by itself in an island it has to interoperate. With multiple, other systems, so one of them is IOT so, that's you. Know one of the challenges that which, will have to involve eventually. You. Know for a full adoption, of blockchain, in the next three to five years. Again. IOT, Internet of Things ICO, initial. Coin offerings, right, so. But, in a blockchain the way it is designed kinds, of lends itself, to interoperate. Interoperability. With, other, technologies. You know including AI our, Internet, of Things or, any. Other technology you throw it out there because it's fundamentally, an immutable ledger, to serve, so. Everything, has to be kind of synergetic, with with, the ledger which, you said you know keeper of the data keeper, of the traceability, keeper, of accountability. And. Okay. Next question sir so. Attention you mentioned AI because that's what my question is so you. Know I mean bill mentioned the sort of the intersection of, AI and blockchain potentially. In smart contracts as an example so, I'm just curious if you guys could talk about some other what. Are some other examples either you, know you in supply chain or another areas where, you see that intersection occurring. Anyone. Want to tackle that I. Guess. My paygrade one, one. Area is. Definitely. You know applicable, to some, of the solutions I think bill. Is working on with his firm and other law, firms interested. In the space. There, there will be a need for as, these different. Decentralized, applications become. Live. And and, become, used and start to address higher-order problems. You. Know above, trying above just payments. There's. Going. To be a need for Oracle's. And, you. Know secure identities, and you know I think. That. Reintroduces. Trust to. The system so I I think there is always going to be some small. Amount of trust needed, in some, area of these. Systems and especially, as we reach the higher order problems. And solve them so I think, one, of the things that can keep, that trust very low, would, be you, know some machine learning deep, learning or AI system, working with an Oracle service to.
Kind Of automate some. Of those. Determinations. That the Oracles making and. Then of course those. Are you know those determinations, are, going. To be, involved. In some sort of transactional. Thing. For. For. Whatever higher-order decentralized. App, you. Know solving various problems so I'm thinking for from, a legal context, it could be as simple as you, know an Oracle say that tells the. System when. You. Know when physically, Keys have been handed over for. A home, right - from. A past tenant to a new tenant or a past tenant - landlord to the new tenant. There. I could see you know in, the document process and. The smart contract being, involved in that transaction and, you. Know perhaps some level. Of AI working, with the Oracle service to make, sure that the real-world things that have happened actually. Happened, and then, tell the you. Know the. Digital. World. Blockchain world.the you know VR and the AI world. What. Happened what actually happened so it can also take place in. That system right well go one more over here and then we'll switch back and forth next. Question please, oh all. Right hi I'm Joe Baker from remedy coin and. Guess Bob maybe this goes, to you as I was hearing you talk, about you, know what how this might affect, insurance, and. I've, compared, kind of the things that I've seen that inspired. Remedy coin like you know damages. To individuals, with. Auditors. Maybe and are not appraisers. Right in, insurance. Claims and I. I'm, starting to see this, morph, into an idea of well. We have an a claim, substantiated. In, tokenized. And all this, what's. To keep this, from disrupting, the insurance, industry. You. Know people always looking for where they can put their value maybe not to, gain, but just to hold value, in a place, where in it. In. A concept, of a future, where there's a crash. In the Fiat system. You. Want your money in something that's substantiated. So. Do. You think. Do. You think this. Sort of thing could a, you. Know I don't. Want to say eliminate insurance but kind of cut in on their on their business so where, people are willing, to actually fund someone, who's. Documented. Damages, so, that they can hold a piece of that damage. Okay. So. You. Mentioned claims specifically. That. Is an important, aspect of our business we want to make sure that we're there. To. Fulfill the promises we've made to, our policy owners. But. I would, say the nature of insurance, is. Its. Base. Level is trust and so. The. There's, trust that you do have the financial, wherewithal to, back the promises you've made, that. You are known as a good actor and. So. There's some aspects, that, could speak to that. But. On the claims side specifically, I think that you. Bring up an opportunity potentially to, streamline, a process, do you have a better experience. But, I don't know if that wouldn't necessarily be, disruptive. In nature this is quick it is that is the claim that someone files against. You or is it against, the person that injured them well. We're on the the. Life and disability. Long-term. Care side of things so that's more property and casualty so, I can't really speak to that okay over, here now, hi. I. Came a little late so this, has already been answered excuse. Me but um so, basically as Bitcoin and, the whole ecosystem scales. Do, you see proof-of-work becoming, an issue and the transition, to proof of stake becoming. A necessity. Um. I have a quick thought on the site I think there's. I, know there's a lot of concern about the amount of energy consumption going on for a proof of work system the, size of Bitcoin I. I. Don't see that as wasteful, at all I can, probably. Give a nice long argument about why but I. Think. The world will always have one and. Probably one maybe. More than one but probably at least one proof, of work system similar. To what we see with Nakamoto consensus, on bitcoins. Blockchain and there, that will be kind of the the. Reserve, chain, that all the other staking, chains that maybe use other.
Mechanisms. For consensus, proof of stake delegated, proof of stake whatever it may be, they. Sort of, depend. On right, the one large, proof-of-work. Blockchain. That's that's. What I think I just. A quick point on the energy consumption I, I, think in places where mining. Has, mining. Operations are very attractive, those. Miners, are they're not just doing, like. Arbitrage. On energy, prices they're. Actually. Storing unyuu otherwise, unused energy, in the Bitcoin that they create, with mining so just, think of Bitcoin as a battery in this sense okay. So in China there's ghost cities and ghost. Cities have miners. Near them because, those power plants are pushing full, capacity. Power out to empty, cities. That happens the grid can't use it and so it's wasted, otherwise, the. Miners aren't wasting it they're getting it very very cheap for that reason and they're kind of storing it in the bitcoins that are created. And. Again, to the valuation point, you can kind of see how how. Sky's. The limit you know if you think down the game theory of that so I think. There will be one proof of work system at least and we'll. Always have at least one all right thank you go over here now hello. My name is Dan, Schultz, I'm with the Wisconsin. Badger blockchain. Group had a views case analysis, I, was. Wondering and maybe this isn't in any of your field, of expertise, but if one, of you could comment on the, recent. Agreement to avoid the hard fork, and, how. That affects, the. Nature of, just. Comment on the nature of the way these technologies, fork in general, maybe and how this. Might set a precedent. For changes. Going forward reaching. Consensus, and specifically. The Bitcoin community. So. If you read you I think. I'm right you can I, think if you read the original white paper he actually like predicts that this is all gonna happen like there's going to be disagreement, in terms of the software in the code and, so he wants these Forks to happen and. If, people don't understand like you have to 51% for any code update, to. Actually code go to the market and. If that doesn't happen they can basically fork off their own asset and that's what these segwayed. All this forking stuff is about, in. Terms, of like the longevity of that I don't, I mean if there's a better idea eventually. In a long term I think the, logical. Minds will kind of come to it. It, was interesting, though with that fork I mean if you read the original like the, email that came out it was literally signed by six people and. So it was quite literally like six people were gonna control, this fork out of the whatever, millions people that are in the entire ecosystem, so. There was kind of like a collection of power right there which if anybody, kind of gets the theme this is kind of anti like centralization. And. So is it like if you Ritz like Jeff Karthik and all those guys I mean I was like sick people that sign that email thing we're not gonna do anymore so, if six people are going to control how a currency, that's used by tens of millions or is. Coated, and kind of the. Block size of it another thing is it's kind of scary so if. I could follow up just clearly I, think, the idea of forks especially, whenever it comes to like the exploit. Or hack of the Dow last year the. Riff, from the headline said who knows what they'll do with the most recent issues. With the wallet, reach. But. I think that really speaks to blockchain. Is potentially. Good for use cases in which they, are not error-prone.
Processes. You, introduce error into, it whether. It's in exploitive, fashion or in a, unintentional. Fashion and you, have these issues in which you have to consider okay do we fork and kind of revert back to the. Prior agreed-upon source of truth, so. These. Are instances. In which these, decisions, around Forks have been brought, up but, to deploy, this in mass as the underlying fabric of a potential future global, commerce platform. You're. Really putting a lot of onus on to and minimizing, the error, inherent. Inside of your processes, and I'll tell you if if, significant. Value is lost people, want blood. Right they want to sue somebody so we, do sue do, sue the blockchain do you see you, know there's, nobody to so. If. Some of these topics are doing whoosh to you they are to me too ok I guess. Why we're here yes. Hello. My, name is William I my. Background, is in cybersecurity, I've worked. With, Johnson. Controls in the past couple of years Fiat. Motor Company, but I've recently transitioned. Into, doing, more of IT compliance, with. That a lot of the work I've done contract-based, has been. In. In. The UK France, and Switzerland and, one of the big things that's coming out in Europe right now is the general. Data privacy. Regulation. Or the gdpr so. I'm. I'm just curious and in my work I have to be sort of ahead of what's. Coming, technology. Wise and how this is going to affect. The companies and the GDP are so. I guess I'm just curious with all these new blockchain, technologies, coming out, I'm. Just, really. Spend a lot of my day reading the white papers because I have to figure out, how. Is this going to affect my clients, in the future GDP, are is it, states that people. Have to know how, you're collecting their data where, is it going and, these sort of things. I'm. Looking at technologies, now and I guess I just want to see what. Are what are you all interested in based like, technology wise because I'm looking at these technologies, and what. They're what they're bringing to the table sort of speak and how. They will affect data. Privacy you have IBM. And they're hyper ledger which is now based or I believe they've partnered with stellar, lumens, and their, platform, and then you have. Ripple. Who's partnered. With the Gates Foundation, Walton, chain and Korea neo. Who was supposed to be like the etherium, of China is, China shut down their trading, but thinking, about spinning, that back up so I'm looking at all these various technologies and, what they could promise, or what they could bring to investments. Cybersecurity. Compliance. And law I guess. I'm just curious what are you all interested in right now as far as emerging. Blockchains. And. Potentially. Their concerns I'm gonna try to invoke Lamont Black's lightning. Round, idea. Anybody. Have quick answers to some of those yes yeah I mean for me when you mentioned compliance, in the banking industry it's. One of the most heavily regulated industries, in the world so. At. First, when. Bank. Compliance, the OCC, the FDIC, started, hearing about blockchain they immediately just thought Bitcoin and there's like oh my god what, are we gonna do with this but the more they dig in to. Really, understanding, blockchain, as a mechanism, they. Love it because, if, you're gonna tell an auditing firm or a. Compliance. Firm or the OCC, or somebody that needs, to go through every single bank, record, they. Salivate at the idea of blockchain I mean to them it's yes, thank. God we don't have to audit we don't have to go in so in, my world that's what I'm very. Interested in all, right let's do quick lightning, round questions, back and forth we've, got about five. Minutes so let's let's go here so not sure if this is touching on the same ground. As the previous question about proof of work and energy but, I was, reading something recently that said that currently, credit. Card payment. Processing systems can handle like ten thousand, times the volume of many. Of the leading cryptocurrency. Processing. Platforms. So, I'm just wondering as. Crypto. Currencies and Bitcoin transactions, continue. To scale is there any concern from experts, that, the. System, is not set, up to handle the volume of transactions.
That Is likely to occur absolutely. So. You're. Spot, on at the transactional. Throughput is a hindrance. To current, systems. But. Just in August, one. Of the founders of etherium, published a white paper with some others, introducing. The idea of a platform, called plasma, and it's, designed. Conceivably, to handle up to billions of transactions, per second so they're going from a. Reduced. Capability. Mode versus, a first it's like the visa transaction, network to something that is potentially, able, to handle far more than, the established, networks. Out there from a transaction, volume okay very good we'll go over here now I had a pretty basic question so you know we've heard a lot about you. Know disrupting, the banking industry disrupting, you know supply chain all that what. Would you recommend and, a current student who's interested in this would you recommend that you we do because you know we can't all disrupt. The banks we can't all the struggle well, just Excel that. Yeah. You can. Yes. That's, right yes you can. But. What's your in what's your interest well. Primarily trading. Trading. Like kind of no banking and all that but yeah, we can't all go into a bank and completely change it you know it's an industry you can't completely, change I mean not everyone can completely change. Every industry you know well. These industries, are pretty broad. By the nature pick one problem, right. Right. That will scale up the, truth is now you can hammer away in your dorm room or in your basement and in. Very. Much no time at all like one two three years. Conservatively. You can change your life and do. What you want to do in life yeah now the student and, if you have any I you, know passion. For entrepreneurship people's. Always asks like how do I create a, blockchain, company, you. Don't create a blockchain company, you create a company that solves a lot of needs for a lot of people and then, you apply that technology, to it to, distribute to as many people as you can there's a huge opportunity to do but do well by doing good to so, people. Are focused on banking, insurance those, kinds of things but, I would encourage you take a look at serving, the underprivileged. Of the world as well I think, that there's a lot. Of opportunity, to deliver services, at low cost of them look at the comic Jim, did pesos the company you could look at to say. There's AG injured it paces at the cup game Kenya yeah you. Just need a cell phone you have a bank account right. I got talked to these folks afterwards over here now real quick question kind, of off of what he was saying some for young people and for a recent graduates, this is really exciting technology, we've, talked a little bit about valuation. And. A little bit about pricing, and one thing that I'm curious is how you, all might suggest we, incorporate, this you. Know blockchain currencies into our. Personal investments, as a way to grow, wealth be involved, and then help, disrupt, these things on. There. You own a Bitcoin today I do. Not much. Yet. None. Of us up here are registered, investment advisors. So. I give out like a probably a hundred emails a day from, our customers about like what should I buy I'm. Not a CFO Charter financial, planner. Resources. You can look at the really really smart guy in space his name's Chris comércio, I think he worked for arc investments. He has like an entire deck I'm like how to value these things he's. A really really bright guy in space I, mean, there's like mutual funds there's kind of a launching for this kind of stuff as well and, then like.
They Go home and open, up Excel and I try to do like a little model on this in terms of like what our adoption rates looking. Like and it's like a pretty daunting task, it. Might take you a long time but like it's all about what your own theory and thesis is really everybody, out there who's interested, in the question, should. Just like, figure out one thing you don't want in your life anymore like maybe it's that extra cup of coffee each week or something like that take. That money and buy Bitcoin, and, then after. You've had that taste explore, some other crypto, assets but if. You don't want to remove any of your vices just. Take five ten fifteen bucks a week 20 b