AUG 19, 2020 | Rules & Open Government/Committee of the Whole
I don't think we have a oh yeah we have a quorum okay do we. Yeah, three of us. Oh yeah we got three of us all right, i was counting you in chappie and i wasn't counting myself i was like there's only two of. Us. You are important dad this is the, census, we all count. All right. Before we start i want to actually, thank dev she's been uh. Great when i run these meetings, and. I forget about 12 different things so she always reminds, me so i appreciate that, especially, uh these virtual meetings, because there's so much. To keep track of so, thank you. You're welcome. I'm sorry, okay. All right all the good feelings are over we're starting the meeting. Uh. Like let's commence the joint meeting for rules and open government community community for the whole, uh wednesday, august 19th, i'm here with vice mayor jones. Councilmember, davis and myself. Um. I believe customer rents is gonna be up since today is that right okay. And then councilman, chemist may join us we hope. Uh we're on to. Item. A1. Which is the review the final agenda, for the 25th. There is an ad sheet. With items, relating to, women's. Suffrage, and women's equality, day and. An amendment, to. The community foundation, grant agreement. That's the making of the motion consider, that. We'll begin with a review on pages, five, and six. In changes. Pages. Seven. And eight. Pages. 9. And. 10.. Pages 11, and 12.. You know can't go back to page 10 for a moment uh dave, i see that the duty manual amendments are on 4.2. Is this the day that's the better day to be, putting this item on. Yeah that's a good way of putting it um. I think the conclusion, we came to, is, this agenda and the next three, are. Kind of. So, packed, that. And since this is technically, a continuation. Of an item that we didn't complete, yesterday. I thought just best to propose, putting it here, um. Yeah that's kind of the conclusion, we came to but um. I know we've got the after action report, from the police. Uh. Issues within the protest, coming on the 15th. Is that right, we we do, we do, to try to just put all that on the same day since i imagine a lot of the same members of the public who want to be there. I think, we're i think we're okay with that, um. You know um i yeah i didn't know what the how the, you you all felt about you know this item and how close we were to kind of just. Um. Completing. It, um. You know there but there might have been more discussion, that needed to happen. Um. And i'll just share with you you know. Just reflecting, on last night. We were thinking it might be helpful with this item just to. To put out a supplemental, memo just to kind of clarify. Um. A few things. Since we were having a quite a discussion, last night, so. But we would be able to do that. By, before that this meeting next week if if we were to keep it here. Okay. I i know that there. Is quite a lot of other things let's go through the, gen and we'll come back to this. So pages, 13, and 14, any changes, there. Pages, 15. And. 16.. Pages. 17. And 18. Pages, 19. And 20. Okay. I. I guess, as i reflect, on this i know, that. There's no such thing as a. Good day, uh. These days with uh the, agendas, we have i know we're gonna have another, lengthy discussion, 3.1. Given that, i suspect, there's going to be other, issues relating to the the police, items. That are all going to come back to us on the after action report on the 15th. I would i would recommend for the make of the motion that maybe we just push it to the 15 so we could have all those discussions, together. Unless, there's, some need to resolve that quickly. Yeah, mira. I'm kind of torn. One is that you know, the. Sooner we have that discussion, kind of still fresh in everybody's, mind in terms of. The previous discussion. That we had, yeah, um. And. Based on my um, precise. Estimation. I figured we had about 23 minutes left in, on that item. 23.. And i'm never i'm never wrong. My estimations. Um. I, think, at the same time i i see a lot of synergy between, um. The after. Action report, and, and this duty manual because they're. Really discussing. Very similar. Issues, and topics, so um. I'm kind of torn, but, i i, live with uh. Deferring, it till the 15th, but uh. If i could just offer one other reason. I you know i haven't seen the after action report we may in fact learn something from that after action report that informs us on this issue and, i suspect it may be beneficial, to have all that in front of us. So my input is i, i'm, okay with. Deferring, it to the 15.. Okay. In spite of my reservations. Okay do you want to make a motion for the whole agenda, here. Okay i moved do we accept. The agenda, for. August. 25th. With, a. Sunshine, waiver for the ad sheet. And. Moving. Item. 4.2. To. The, september. Agenda. All second, does your motion include. Um having, 3.5. The community, plan to end homelessness. Not to be heard before 4 pm. That's the administration's. Recommendation. Right it's already in the uh.
It Just says recommend, so i wasn't sure if it had to be in the motion. Well just for, i'm okay with that, but just for just future reference. If it's in the, if it's noted in the agenda do we have to, specifically. Include that in the motion, just though, so, but i understand, uh customer davis's point which has that tricky word recommend, in there. Okay. It's not like 3.7. Which says to be heard last, like that was already, made that way, okay, well. Now i understand the distinction. So yes, that would include that, great. Okay. Uh let's go to the. Public. Uh, mr bleepin. Hello. Uh. Happy wednesday. I hope uh my sound quality, will be better today. Um. To speak to item 3.1. And. David, sykes. Weekly, uh kovid, report. I tried to say yesterday. You know i don't want to speak in absolutes. And i want to be able to speak in ways that uh. Just give your, your own selves. And the community, ideas, on on issues. And. You know i to make a big bold statement i really want to be able to talk about, uh, you know how owners and tenants can get along they don't have to sue each other. And the good practices, we're trying to be able to do that. To make sure that happens the good assembly, bills and such. Um. I think i i, i hope you can be patient i think a very, important. Overview, of this subject. Is, i've, said it a few times and i try to use it sparingly, but, the idea that you know covet 19. Has been, from, an in an international. Level. And. We have not been at fault, here at the local level. And so what we're trying to work out at this time. Is, you know. We don't need to be blamed we should not at all be blamed at the local level. And. It's difficult, for us to work out a system. Of complete forgiveness. But that is really what we can work on and and i hope you can learn to explain, that to the, community. As city government, i think you have an awesome responsibility. To do that, and not simply. Hold back in the name of you know, professional, business.
Class, And and and etiquette. And, you know. If you explain things openly, you know it's really to, to, full forgiveness. Is really how to address, ourselves, about this matter. And that it is not the fault of ourselves, it is, an international, level, and they obviously, have naturally, once again made a big mistake, about it and we're going to hopefully learn important lessons from that. And uh. Housing. Uh. Uh, health, and food are just, items that we have to treat as you know, givens we all need those things and uh good luck on how we work. Thank you mr speakman, uh, paul soto. Good afternoon mayor uh council members. Um i agree i second with the. What uh. Blair was talking about there's there's a. There's a, a deductible, a noticeable. Undercurrent. Of language. And meaning, that's going on in this council. And, it that's. Your role is to inform us. And, you're informed. And you're talking about, things that you know what you're talking about and what their. Uh potential, impacts, can be on the public. But you're not saying nothing. But yet you're discussing, it. At a forum. Where. The business. Of the public. Is discussed. With clarity. With uh uh. With poignancy. With accuracy, of language. Rather than, a, bunch of vague. Uh, ambiguous. Um. You know half sentences. And you. On the panel will understand. What that means but. Here in the public, i don't. And. It's frustrating, because, it's being done with like like almost like a mock. Like a straight face. You're going to do this to the public. And and not have any kind of concern. But yet you are a servant. Of the public, so that's why i get kind of confused. You know nobody can question my sincerity, about wanting to establish. A racial, equity lens. Within the context of the way that it uh, funds, are administered. In the city. You know and and there's a historical. Um that's that's rooted in the historical, injustices, that had happened in the city. And so. Um. It's, it's just like uh. I can't emphasize, enough how frustrating, that is when. We don't know what to operate on we don't know what to take back, to our people, the people that are in the in the city. To understand, what. The complexities, of the issues that we're dealing with. For the day thank you. Thank you, uh jeremy. Taylor. We need face shields, or related to coronavirus, we need face shields for unhoused, residents, in san jose. Especially, because the average, on house resident, is exposed, to at least dozens of residents, per day. So, i would like to see san jose. Put an effort, to get all on house residence, face shields thanks. Thank you. Okay returning. To. The panel, uh councilman, camps i should know has been on the phone i'm sorry i didn't observe that earlier, councilman canvas. Yeah i am sorry i'm, my computer's, not functioning, today and i have to do my cell phone. So forgive me, um i. You know. Yesterday's, item 3.1. Kind of stretched into the day you know. Some. You know, art. You know. We were putting, limits on how many minutes that people could talk on 3.1. And i think we should revisit, that because. You know, if if we if we hadn't gone, so long on, on that item, we might have been able to finish, yesterday's.
Discussions. Um is there, you know is there any thought to doing that. I. I'm sorry. Cancer. I, i'm sorry i didn't quite understand, it forgive me, we we were putting council, uh limit limits on council discussion. Yes, for item for the manager's, report in the past, yeah i think we should revisit, that, as you know i've i've. Valiantly. Attempted, several times, but yeah i i think we need to attempt it again. Yeah it. Certainly happened to you i it just you know at some point it's just beating my head against the wall if uh if council doesn't want to hold themselves to it and. Yeah. We get what we get we go past midnight. Yeah and it is, that some of the questions could have been easily answered behind the scenes and not in the public. It's my thoughts. Yeah i'm sure you're right uh councilman davis. Yeah i um. As much as i, would like the limits, i think. It. I think it caused. More. Contention. Um. Then it was worth, and i i don't. I'm not interested, in revisiting. It again. Um. And i also. You know was. Actually just talking with one of my staff members today. I i didn't have very much i didn't think on 3.1. Yesterday. And then as we were discussing. I had more questions, come up and, and they're not something that, you know normally i i could just grab a staff member. In the elevator, or i'd see them, in the parking garage. Or walking to lunch and just ask those questions, and we don't have those. Um. You know serendipitous. Encounters, anymore, so. I think the reason our meetings are so long as i was reflecting. Uh earlier, today, i think that me the reason the meetings are so long is that we don't have those. Um easy exchanges, of information. Anymore. So. I i don't, love going to midnight, as, as you all know the vice mayor and i. Felt very strongly that our curfew should be even, earlier, than we ended up making it but um. I i also think. At this point, we should. Have the discussions, that we need to have, and having them all. Um. Having them all together, actually, probably. Costs. Staff, less time. Than. Having those. Those side conversations. And having to go, for staff to have to go on, multiple, zoom meetings. So that's my two cents on the time limit. Okay. Well. Honestly i'm not sure it's even worth us debating, here because it'll all get re-debated, at the council, anyway, um.
So I i. I'll simply defer if somebody wants to make the motion at the council they can certainly do so i'm. I'm clear about where i am. We'll see, uh what happens. All right, uh. On the motion. Uh i'll. I, guess we, we need to vote, uh by roll don't we tony, um yeah i think we should with canvas on the phone, okay, we make sure he's heard. Yep um, uranus, is absent so davis. Hi. Kamis. I. Jones. Bye. Lecardo. Hi. Thank you. So uh uh, tony just for a clarification. So if uh. If, council member camas was not. On the phone but he was. A full participant. Uh. Will we could we do a consensus, vote on these items or will we still have to do a roll call, in, roles. I believe we should always do a roll call but i will consent, like consent, calendar. Um i'm okay with with the. Everything, when it's just like if you were to just approve the agenda and have no changes i'd say just do it all as a group. But because there are several changes, and that moving 4.2, to 9 to 915. I feel like it's better to do a roll call when you have a lot of little moving pieces anyway. Okay, so i'll update your virtual. Meeting. Guide. Like that. Okay, you can see my face i could i could log in just like i would on on any given day it's just it's on my cell phone it's not as. Nice. Actually i was, i was okay johnny without, seeing your face. Okay all right well let me turn off that. We don't have to get personal, here. I'm going to reel this meeting in rhonda, item uh. Two which is the the, agenda for september, 1st. We'll begin with. Pages. Five and six. Pages. Seven. And, eight. Pages. Nine. And ten. Expect 8.2, will attract a lot of public attention. Um. I guess we'll be getting be beginning at 11 a.m on this as well is that right. Well that's 1 30, on the uh, is that right. I think we should go for 11.. Yeah i think so too given, what we got coming, on eight point. Two. It is a deceptively. Short agenda. But. I think deceptive. Deceptive, is the key word there, exactly. Okay. Uh, we'll come back for a motion, uh, okay the person with the phone number. Ending. Five seven. Two four we're speaking, now on the agenda. For tuesday september, 1st. Welcome. Can you hear me okay. Yes. Yes we can. Okay here we go i think i've got it um, this is actually gabriele, on this with uh somos maiser. And i'm actually watching you on one phone and on the other phone um, but i would like to request, that um. I believe it's item 8.1. Which is the citywide. Residential, anti-displacement. Strategy. Discussion. If you could make that time certain. Um we've, involved a lot of different communities, in san jose, around. That item and those those proposals. And we've been working on it for over a couple of years and would like to make sure. As many of the community, members we've worked with um are able to listen in on your discussion, around that, and so if we could make that time certain that would be great. I think sometimes you guys take a, dinner break or something like that so maybe right after that when you all feel good and full. But um just, just the time that you know maybe after, people get off work and stuff and, have dealt with their children and stuff that would be great. Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you very much. All right thank you. Uh. We'll take that recommendation, when we come back to the panel uh claire beekman. All right i wanted to speak on item. 6.1. Which is microgrid. And energy, resiliency. Studies. You're developing. Over the past, few weeks, now, uh. Local community, energy ideas. Uh thank you. Um. You know i i. Tried to mention, uh. You know community. Energy ideas. Yesterday. And what i think the important need is to consider, the ideas, of renewable, energy, and not, not just clean energy. Those are two, different, ways to look at, the future of energy, and uh, you know i hope we're into the idea in san jose, of renewables. And i think that's. That is just the vital question for ourselves. Um. I think we can, i feel personally, that you know clean energy is basically, nuclear, energy and that that develop, that. Delivers. Carbon, free. Energy, which is important, to ourselves. But it nuclear, energy, and its think tanks, its, corporate. You know mantra, it's it's it's you know, corporate. Uh you know passing. Along to each other it's basically, about ideas, of uh, what brought along, covet, things.
And Basically, works towards the ideas, of. There can be acceptable. Losses, of mass members of our, civilization. And of our society, and of our communities. That is the premise, of nuclear, power. And we are at a time, for ourselves, to really consider. Positive, sustainable. Ideas. And that has to be key and however, we all move forward in this time of code, i feel. And i'm i'm just really um. Hopeful of that and so we have to really, reconsider. The future of nuclear. And really work at this time. How we can end it. Um you know and local community, energy just does an incredible, thing for local democracy. And, and and it just invites, local communities, to work together, towards the ideas of good local. Democracy, of their own, at their own. Level, thanks. Thank you uh, maria. Martinez. Hi good afternoon members. Um. Maria martinez, district, 5, resident. And also. Um. Staff for somos mayfair. My, my petition, for today, is. I want to echo what are the, my colleagues, gabrielle, asking, for, uh, move around the island, 8.5. 8.1. Sorry. After, that you get you wonderful, dinner. But also, i want to asking, you for, probably. A translation. Even, uh. For this meeting, also, because, for the for the, september, first and for the. Every meeting that, that the city have. Uh. For me is very important, the community, get that information. And their own language. And. It's important. To, get, all this information, that you have. Uh because. Uh, when the, when the community, they get the information. I think that we can, uh making the changes, and and we can working together. So, hopefully, you can move, up the 8.1. After, you take it you wonderful, dinner and you provide a translation. For a spanish, speaker. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you maria. Paul. Soto. Yeah i was just, um. I was concerned, about. Uh. Some. Reports. Environmental, impact reports. For the high rises that are going up, if there's any. Sociological. Reports. That go along with that i don't mean just the environment what i'm talking about is how. Moving. That many people, with these income levels because you you basically, they're a very.
Predictable, Demographic. So you can you can. You can get that demograph. And how that demograph. Is going to mesh in with the culture that's already set here, because. There's, going to be probably about. Uh. I don't know maybe about a hundred thousand people. That are going to be coming here to san jose within the next 10 years. At least a hundred thousand, probably that's probably a pretty conservative, number. So, with that, and with the amount of wealth. There's at least 15 to 20 billion. That's going to be coming into the. Centralized. District 3.. So with that said. There's going to be. Cultural, shifts. There's going to be cultural dynamic, that is going to change and with those changes. You're going to have changes in values. And, and. Those, those things aren't being talked about. Because, we're like on this base level, we're on this survival, instinct mode of, maslow's, hierarchy of needs we're right there at the bottom. So we can't we can't elevate to the, higher levels of consciousness, and thinking. Because we're consumed, with, food shelter, and safety. And so. Um. Because i can see it i can see exactly. What that, is going to happen and there's going to be a clash. A clash in the sense that you're going to have people. That are going to come to the city and feel a sense of entitlement. Because, everything was built for them. And that sense of entitlement, is going to be at the expense. Of the native populations, here, and i'd like to know if the city has done something. In order to address that. Thank you. Thank you jeremy, taylor. Uh, quickly for maria's concern, on translation. The city on zoom so you can just turn on, transcription, and then translate, i think you guys already own it. And then. An idea, for, the next meeting. I know um, you all are really smart about using. Data to make drive decisions. I thought a cool agenda, item, could be. San jose. Leadership, coming up with different. Questionnaires, or polls for residents. So that you actually do have data to drive decisions. Thank you. Thank you. Okay coming back to the panel. Uh the recommendation. I think from a couple community members who, have a time certain i know that's difficult for us at times, certain, but perhaps a not before, time. To discuss, that item. Um. The recommendation, was, right after dinner i'm fine with something and say not before, six o'clock. I want to check in with, folks see how they feel about that. Um. Davis. Thanks, sorry. It was faster to raise my hand than to raise my blue hand, um. I was wondering i know there's. There's, interest in. Um 8.2. But. 8.1. Is the anti-displacement. Strategy. Would we do not before six for, both of them. I'm a little worried about us pushing. Midnight, if that's the case. Yeah me too but i think that, they're. Um. A similar. Group. Interested, in both so i'm not sure if we wanted to. Try to pair them. I, i just want to bring it up, i'm fine with not before six for 8.2, i just didn't know if we wanted to. If there was also interest in in 8.1. It's something we. Have been meaning to discuss for quite some time i know yeah i don't doubt that many members of the public would like to speak on both and just given the limitations, of time i'm not sure we can both push him into the same.
Corner Of the evening, so. Yeah. Go ahead dave, if i could marry i think the speakers, were requesting. Um, not before. Six, on 8.1. Though, oh. Yeah i'm sorry misunderstood. Yeah, that's right. So in that case would we take them out of order. If we were. Yeah if we need to i think the idea would be, you know 435. Rules by and we start on 8.2, we know that may well take us well past six but. Give everybody a chance to, join in after dinner, on 8.1. Okay. Okay. I'm happy to make a motion to approve the agenda, for. Um. September, 1st. With a start time of 11 i think we said and. And making, um item 8.1, not before. 6pm. We got a second in there okay good, uh. Anybody like to. Let's see here. Okay. All right let's vote then. Hey, miss. Hi. Camis. I. Jones. Aye. Ricardo. Aye. Okay thank you uh. Item e is the public record. Motion to note and file. Second. Mr bakeman. Hi. Um. For public record, uh my my letter was a letter to the cpuc. And, uh. This this entire summer i've been learning to finally write to them. And, describe, my own feelings, of the. Ideas, of technology, accountability. And, i mean the ideas of tech accountability. Are the ideas, of positive sustainability. Um. You know, uh it is good communication, between, everyday, community, and its local government. That is specifically, meant to address. You know. Good democracy. And from that. How, how that can end, continual, war, and, its shock doctrine, practices. So, it's these sorts of elements, and ideas, that, really. Have to be. You know, first talked about in however, i feel we move forward this time as a society. Uh, and as and in fact the world. How we need to move forward. How to consider, ourselves. We have to place positive sustainability. First and foremost. No matter, the, the intentions. Of, what this kobit. 19, is meant to accomplish. Um. With 48, seconds, uh i wanted to remind community, energy, is is where everyday, people. You know from from each community, can work in their own community, and develop good ideas, and then connect to people of, neighboring, communities, and it's that sort of connections, at the local level. It's it's a great program, and i hope. Our own city can start to the people around city can really get into it, and there was a there was a um. 20 seconds. A woman. Another public record letter. She's an owner and she's asking for help from you as the city government. What she can do so she can get her payments, back, i think you can have answers for her and i hope you can learn to supply, her those answers, and and talk to ourselves, about what answers you're giving to her as well, and that's our future and that's our hope. Thank you. Thank you sir. All right on the motion. Uh. We need to take roll on this tony, avis. Aye, yes. Jones. Hi, ricardo. All right. All right um. An item. Uh g. One we have a consent calendar. Move approval. Thank you. All right, uh, mr beekman this is a. Rules committee reviews recommendations, and approvals, consent, calendar there are just two items on consent. I'd like to speak in one of. Those. Yeah i wanted to speak to uh. Landip's. Ideas, of uh. Accounting. Ideas, is that on the consent council pick that up in two more items. All right thank you, thank you. All right on the motion all favor. Aye, aye. Any opposed. That passage unanimously. Item, two. Our act, related, illegal, fireworks, councilman. Is with. Yes mayor thank you uh, if you look at the. Memo it's relatively, straightforward. One of the reasons that this memo was prompted was simply because i looked at the, as the vice chair of the public safety committee i looked at the work plan i didn't see fireworks, anywhere, in there. So i had a conversation. With uh. Some folks within the administration. And there was uh it was mentioned. That. It was. Potentially, going to be brought back i think september, 15th, so, with regard to the date that's in my memo i think it says august 25th, you can disregard, that. Um i was told that i think, if it's approved here it'll come back the 15th of september, or so.
But As i mentioned in the memo it's just i think it's something worthwhile, for us to. Keep on our radar. Um, and uh it's something that i consistently, hear about. And granted, i know and i've expressed this to some of the folks that are advocating, us to do, better. Uh by the community as it relates to fireworks, that this certainly doesn't fall. Uh it doesn't rank, one, you know one one two or three on the list of some of the things that we're dealing with in the city. But uh yet i still think it's worth the discussion, and that's why, this memo just simply asked to bring it forward, before the full council, to discuss. And that's really that's really it. Okay i can answer any questions if, yeah it says the place on the august, 25th. Agenda does it have to be on the 25th, or could it be another. No no as i mentioned uh that was put in there after. Before i had conversations, with the city administration. I think. September, no it's okay i think september, 15th, is the day that they thought may work best, okay, right, that's correct council councilmember. Okay. To the public. Uh. I don't see any members of the public elected speaker on this item, the illegal fireworks. Report. So we'll come back to this, the council. Uh, for a cast. Yeah thank you and um. Dave. Don't we usually do and after. You know and after, a. Fourth of july. Kind of report. It, is that the is that what is being envisioned, here. Yeah and and thank you council member, and, um. Councilmember, amanda's mentioned is that we so this, used to be more or less a standard report that we brought through his fizz and sometimes, would be cross-referenced. With the council. It ended up getting dropped off uh. The pizzfizz. Schedule, and work plan and so, um. I think the request, here is to. In essence, bring forward the report that we typically, brought forward to pis. Directly to council, and i think we're we are comfortable, with that. Yeah i'm very i'm very uh curious, i actually um. I i concur, with councilmember, jimenez. Received lots of complaints this year far, far more than i've ever received. In my seven years. Um i'm, waiting to hear. Uh. I'd love to hear the report as well i'm glad we're we're going to discuss it as a full council. So thank you and i'll make a motion to approve the memo. Second. Thank you. Yeah, um i i want to thank councilmember, jimenez, for bringing this forward and for catching it i actually got, of course i got many calls. And emails, as well, and, i, i had said to all my residents, well we will hear this in council. We always do after the fourth of july so, i, uh. I want to thank you council member jimenez, for. Um, the eagle eye and and. Noting that it wasn't on the on the pis. Work plan so that you can bring it forward for us i appreciate that, um. Council member chemist your. Motion, included. Um. Changing the number three to hearing it on september, 15th, correct. Yes. Okay great thanks. All right, uh vice mayor. Yes uh councilmember, jimenez, just a, question. Why. Wasn't your recommendation. To go to pisviz, first. And then. Cross-reference. The council. Yeah, that that's a good question, i thought uh that given the amount of complaints, and concerns, that i've. Heard from the community i think it warranted, a full. Uh debate, and really discussion, at the council instead of just at the committee, and so, that's the reason, i mean i could i could have easily done that but. The other thing that prompted me to just, push it to the full council was simply that it wasn't on the work plan, for pisfizz, and i just assumed they were jam-packed, with other things and i did look at the work plan but, i just assumed they didn't want it there necessarily. So i figured bring it forward before everyone but. Well i'm going to support the motion but i just want just, raise that point because. That. This particular, topic, actually would be, a prime, topic. To put on pizzviz, work plan, and have us. Ask questions, debate, discuss. Through pissfizz, and then. Do a cross-reference. To counsel, because that's that's our. Our role on pissfizz, so i just. I'm just hesitant to, circumvent, that process, but i i will support the motion but i just want to. Just make that point, that's all. And i appreciate, that i guess, one thing that comes to mind for me is just simply that i think. Even if it's small. Action, something very small, small, pilot in a, particular, neighborhood, or a few streets. I just think that this topic has been lingering, for far too long and that we just need to take some sort of action. Creative. Or not i mean i don't know right i think just folks are asking for something, to be done.
And So i thought as well if it went through the pizza committee that, uh. You know it was just going to be delayed a little longer, and i thought it was good just to. Bring this forward now but uh but i appreciate, your concern, i i know that that's. Typically where we discuss, it i just um. I just think it's important to bring forward sooner rather than later. Okay. Uh. On the motion. Let's vote. Davis. I. Chemist. Aye, jones. Hi, ricardo. Hi. Thank you right, item, uh three. Is, a matter from uh accounts proposed by council member don diepp, who is with us. Uh government accountability. Measures councilman, yep. Hello, thank you uh mayor, so, i i'm bringing this before, the rules committee hope hoping to get to council. Um i realize that some of my reforms, or proposals. Aren't uh. Doable in the in the short-term immediacy. Uh. Given that we're under covet i i, but i i think that now is the time to kind of, uh think ahead, in preparing, for the next, um, crisis whatever it may be. Whenever, we we so i proposed four things, you've read the memo. But let me pull it up real quick it's essentially. Um. Asking, that, whatever, future budget, um, surpluses, we have, we set aside. Uh half of them, 50, of it into, a. Budget reserve fund or a lock box if you will, uh, until, we get, um. 15. Uh, of our general fund, saved up right, and, uh, also. Uh, creating a standing commission. Of, residents. To provide oversight, issue reports, on any. Um. Ballot measure, or policy proposal, that the council endorses. Which would. Increase taxes or generate additional revenue. Um. Thirdly. Uh. Trying to achieve, uh vertical alignment. So before our budget. Decisions are made at the council. We have staff come and tell us, what they know. About the budgets, of the federal government and the spending priorities of the state so we can kind of find some sort of synergy. Uh, to the maximum extent possible. And then lastly. Um. You know directing, the uh city auditor. Uh to audit. Every four years. Or every year three departments, that are, you know three departments. But every department will get a revisit, every four years, um, and, beginning, this year by amending the work plan to, include in the current police audit, um. Cost savings and efficient process efficiencies. Uh being the focus of of these audits. Um, and i know we're, gonna have to do a lot more with less in the coming years but i think if we, we commit to these kind of actions now, uh when. The time comes where we're a bit more comfortable. I feel that there will be a lot of pressure for us to spend. Spend spend spend because we'll have a backlog but i think, we have to recognize, that we're able to get through, today now because we did save up a reserve, fund, um i forget what the exact number was it's in the memo i think it was uh. Some like 30 something million. And and we we dipped into it now we have about another 20 million. For the next budget cycle but as we continue to deplete it we need to, um. Be worried about saving it for for future.
Cycles And future councils so these are just a few proposals, that i think will help increase transparency. I know that all of you. Like me when we're out there talking to the public. We often hear about, everyone, being over taxed, but not getting the benefit of their services, and that's basically all they're asking for, and and i hear that and i don't agree. Um, and i explain to them that san jose only gets 13 cents on the tax dollar. But, it's it's also very hard for me to. Uh, point specifically, to where their their measure, b dollars have gone or where their measure t dollars have gone. Less though with measure t we've done a better job with measure t but, generally, i think if there's a public report. Um, regular audits. Uh we can point to this and have a public discussion, and the public, uh, will be able to see, what we're doing and more transparency, is a good thing so that's my idea and i hope the rules committee, agrees. Thank you. I appreciate, the, recommendations, in the memo to support. Uh. Uh, before we go to the public, uh dave do you want to offer any green yellow red, observations. You know, um yes thank you mayor and think, thank you council members so we we did. Issue a early release form, uh. Evaluation, form so you should hopefully, have that i don't think we've got it posted. Um. I you know so and um, oh, that's right gloria's, gonna show that here. In in essence what we did and and, jim shannon and lee are here. With items one and, three i think we're able to. We have the capacity, to kind of. Fold them into the work that we were you know we normally do here, and so we put a green light to those, um. I think. Item, two is much, more of a. Pretty. Heavy lift. And so. I think we actually, issued a red light recommendation. On that. And then we did not comment on on item number four because that's really in joe's. Realm, and i do believe joe is is on with this right now so. I think uh lee, and jim and, and, joe and i stand ready for any questions about these recommendations. Okay, joe did you want to weigh in about four before we move on to the public. Um. Just quickly, i think you know i think it's it the four is completely doable, the uh you know, i appreciate, that, you know amending the work plan rolling that into the current audits as opposed to a, separate one would be really helpful. And it makes perfect sense. Um. The, the, you know. The idea of having at least three. Audits, with uh, you know, pretty much the bigger, uh. Bigger departments, and, cycling back every four years is completely doable. It's what we generally do because we usually hit the big ones. Because they pop up but being more explicit, about that and. In figuring out how to make sure that that occurs, is, is, is, is fine. Um. I'm curious what it would look like and how that would mor how that would be memorialized. If, if the departments, listed here are the is that is that a complete list or are we talking about all departments, i just want to be a bit more, have a bit more clarity, about, what the direction, is um. But it is it is doable to to make sure that we're cycling and hitting each department on a regular basis, and it makes perfect sense and i agree.
Okay. Um i'm guessing there are some other, departments. Well. Sub departments, as i think about it, uh, did you intend that for that to be exhaustive, concerned yet, no just such as per for example i i do think we should start with the larger ones in the the public-facing, ones, that impact most impact the lives of our constituents, but you know eventually we get, to every department, should be visited i think. Yeah. Okay. And then could i just ask. Dave as we look at item two. You know if if we were to instead, simply take an existing, commission. You know as we have in the past, the neighborhoods, commission. And we've designated, them to be. The ballot, oversight. Committee, i think on the 2016. Measure, b. You know, maybe if this was nothing more than. Ensuring that we had. You know that was the go-to, commission, unless otherwise, designated, so it would be such the neighborhoods, and. Valid oversight, commission. That theoretically, wouldn't require, any, city staff work right beyond. Or changing the name. Yeah and i'll let lee wayne i think you're correct, you know i think that the statement, in here that. You know it's, uh provide oversight, on any ballot measures, or. Policy, proposals. Proposed. Or endorsed, by the city to result, in tax increases, and so i think. You know it could be that we're funneling quite a bit through here. So it would be the additional revenue, part that might be a fee increase for example. Right, right it could be a fee increase, or if there's a piece of legislation. That would be taking on a position, in sacramento. We would need to run it by so the neighborhoods, commission certainly wouldn't be a. A new commission that we would need to stand up but the amount of hours. That, the intergovernmental, relations, team that could be in front of the neighborhoods, commission. And kind of that proactive. Work. Um. I can certainly see value as we pass, ballot measures that are revenue. Um. Generators. That there's a check and a balance with a commission, as part of the budget process but that that initial, kind of exploratory. Brain. Dumping, phase to involve a commission. Seems somewhat impractical. Okay. We'll go to the public i just want to throw out a suggestion, for maybe because you have to consider. Staff, if the words additional, revenue were supplanted, with. New fees. So it was a bit more confined, i just wonder if that might help us. Narrow the focus to i think what customer dip is most concerned about but we'll come back on that issue let's go to the public and, we'll hear some more from, the panel thereafter. Claire beekman. Welcome there. Yeah hi thank you, it is, unmuted, thank you. Um. There are going to be many, uh. Accountability. Accountability. Issues for this item, i can cover many subjects. Um. You're currently working on uh. Measure t, oversight. Accountability. As well and, you know, it was meant. Measure t was originally, meant to. Uh, address, like a number of issues it was really ambitious. And, part of it was to have oversight. And so you, created an oversight committee that was mainly supposed to work on its tax and auditing, ideas. That i think, you guys are interested, in but with kobit. Um. And perhaps pre-copied. You know it was supposed to have public oversight, ideas with technology. As well. And i think with coved, those are going to kind of get, you know thrown by the wayside, the technologies. Oversight, ideas. You know so i hope i can't stress enough, the ideas of uh. You know to create some sort of public oversight, committee, for the future of technology. Um. You know as a way to talk about accountability. Issues, and that i think can really actually help address your police issues, at this time as well. I think. That's about all i have to say for this item so so good luck in your efforts, it's an interesting, project for yourselves, thank you. Thank you. Eddie trung. Good afternoon mayor licardo, and city council members eddie chong with the silicon valley organization. Um. I wanted to express my support, for the, councilmember, dave's memorandum, for good government, reforms. Um first i want to. I want to point out two items that we are particularly, supportive, of which is. First is the budget stabilization. Fund concept. If we were, if we had this um, budgetary. Item. Uh prior, to the covet. Economic. Recession. Then i think that we would be in a better place today. But, instead, of looking back we can, certainly look forward and to see what we can do to prepare ourselves. For the next crisis, and to really. Create some kind of a fiscal resiliency. Fund. So the city can better weather such uh storms. And the second item is the performance, audits, in particular. Whenever there are budgetary, constraints, we should do everything we can to ensure, that we're optimizing.
Limited Budget dollars. And to ensure that we are, um, delivering, the best quality services that we can through the city. And so um with that said i want to express our support for uh council mercury's memo, and please move forward with the accountability, measures, thank you. Thank you. Okay coming back to the panel. Um, catherine. Did you want to respond. Yeah so thank you i i'm fine with the, the, replacing, additional revenue, with fees i think uh from a, constituent, perspective, most people are concerned with you know every every election cycle there's some sort of ballot measure and i think, that was really the thrust of it um, i i didn't envision, it, to to what lee was saying where every every, little, thing was um. And i don't even think the voters or the residents even are aware of every little, uh increase that we do right so i think their concern is mainly. Uh you know, you raise my taxes for something and, am i getting the benefit of that and that's essentially what i'm uh trying to get at. So lee if if that those words additional, revenue were supplanted. With new fees. Does that help narrow the focus. I just well i guess one question and then i would ask jim to weigh in, um, are we tired you know are we talking about. Fees enacted by the city or just fees in general. I think it was just. Presumably. The ones we control. I can't say that okay, yeah it would be from the city, clearly okay, yeah. Yeah so i would defer to jim if it doesn't affect the igr program i'd defer to jim. Yeah, this is jim jim shannon city's budget director i think you know with uh you know we have a, proposed, fees and charges document that we put out as part of the budget process, every, every year. And invariably, there are a number of small small fees that are a part of that document. Um, they're you know they have, you know numerous fees to serve very specific purposes, for specific, services, that are requested, by residents, or businesses. Um i think even having the word fees in there without maybe some thresholds.
Um Becomes. Um, probably, more administratively. Burdensome, than probably is. Wanted, as part of this. Memo, um, i think maybe the other thing to consider, is um. Uh you know we, know certainly the neighborhoods commission, is, is the oversight, body for the local sales tax measure. Um you know i think. I think you know those that have been pretty narrowly focused for that particular, ballot measure so we have measure e we've got measure b you've got measure t we've got the old. Um. Public safety, uh bond fund oversight committees to for measure measures o. Um and so i think i think also one of the challenges one to consider, is that, this. Um. How does this differ from those, individual, committees that already exists for those measures. Um and how does this differentiate, substantially, from the budget review and publications, that are sort of already out there. Um that that, provides, some, um. Uh. Some a lot of information. On sort of how the dollars are coming in and what they're spent on. Um, and i have i have another, comment on some some. Thoughts on recognition, one two if if when you're ready to talk about that as well. You can do that now, okay. Did you want to respond. Uh, no i i appreciate that i i, recognize that for every bout measure we've done so far we we basically have a. Separate. Uh oversight, committee or something to that effect anyway. Um, i i think there's some benefit to having some sort of, continuity. With just one or the neighborhoods commission or some commissioner with that responsibility. Rather than, assembling. A new body every single time we we run a ballot measure which which seems to be what we would typically, do. So i just wanted to have, like a. Body with standard responsibility, that, the public can look to, with some regularity. Uh same name. Uh, same, scope of work, that they would issue. As, often as we had these kind of, uh revenues. Increases. So that was that was my thinking there and i understand, the. In i understand the. Uh. The reluctance to be overly burdensome and that's not my intent at all so we can word this however it makes the most sense so that it's not capturing, every single fee increase throughout the city, uh but i i think uh, my intent was. From a ordinary, just, person living in san jose. Having their property tax increased. It's a black hole to them, uh and and they say that you know the ballot measure argues for something and they don't know if they see the benefit of it so it's really. Uh. Creating a body, or pointing to somebody with and embodying, them with some empowering them with some sort of, uh. Trust from the from the community to say this is these are the this is the group that you can look to and they're going to issue a standard report every year. Or however often there's a fee, or a.
Property. Tax increase. And. You can you can say yes they're going to confirm independently. That the government, spent it on what we we've advocated, for when we proposed, it. Okay, um, cancer cameras. Sorry mayor, yes, i am. I had a similar, questions, i i, really, uh love the objective. Quite frankly. Um. But i but it is a little vague. Are we also going to be backwards, looking, uh councilmember, jeff meaning looking at our own, uh for example, our own policies, that that, that um. That that actually cause us to to. Uh. Spend more money like living wage, prevailing, wage policies. And. And our own departments, that may not need to exist. Is that something that you envision. Uh that wasn't my intention i think it was just moving forward, i don't the. I think as part of the audit process, we we may come up with that through the the, audit process, but this is all intended to be forward-looking, i i don't i don't mean to go back and reinvent, everything. Um but i think if we have some new changes. And systems in place. Moving forward. Uh we can and be more nimble and more transparent, to the public so no not backward looking but forward-looking. Okay. And as as. So in, in your envision, you're envisioning, this committee to be, a standing, committee meaning it's going to meet. On a regular, basis. As as often as there's work i i recognize, that they're not going to be like the parks. Parks commission that that meets, regularly. Um, i i they're probably more like the salary setting commission, when there's work they're called to assemble. And, they'll do it that way. Okay and if it's so if. Am i. Hearing from staff, that, you're they're okay with one two and. Three and four, the whole. Thing. Well i think we've which which part was red which part, i apologize, and remember one was read. Part, uh item two was read, but i think we've discussed. Some alternatives. That would. Make it and some language, changes that would make it more manageable. Um. So, i'm assuming this would go to council, and we'd be able to in the interim time issue a memo that kind of. Um. Lays out some of the issues and just kind of the, i know jim wanted a chance to talk about number one. But just uh provide additional context, to the council, when this does come to. To the council, for, uh for discussion. And how long do you need, um. Before we put it on a council agenda. I i'm very i'm glad you asked that. Not so much, that we need so much time and i'm just looking at our. Our, report, here. I i would recommend, that we we put this on the agenda for september, 22nd. Um we just got a lot stacked, up over the next three weeks, um. I know this, this, last part of my tenure, is so exciting. I get midnight, meetings, every meeting. Wonderful. Um. Also, if if uh if i will move uh the memo, uh. For september, 22nd, to be discussed, with the changes, that uh staff. Is recommending, to the memo. Second. Thank you councilman, canvas, uh we don't want you get cheated out of a single minute. Yeah, i mean you know uh if there's any good news in this awful time it's that uh we're not going to have the problem behind the deal with a budget surplus, for a long time. So i don't think it's urgent that we decide that matter. This week so i think it's okay that that lags behind. Uh, vice mayor jones. Thank you mayor uh i'll just go uh down each one so for uh the first item. Uh. One of the. Concerns, that i have and actually was raised, in the um. Early consideration. Response. Form was just the um. If we implement, something like this it would take away some. For a lot of the discretion. That we have and particularly, uh for you mayor. Uh. You've. Been allocating. Uh reserves. And uh. Budget shortfall. Dollars. The whole time i've been on the council. And even though you've, been predicting, a recession. For the last five and a half years. You've been wrong, that you're wrong. Finally right. Even a broken clock. Even a broken clock. That's why i put my public school education, against your private school education. But. I i do have that concern, i want to actually hear from you mayor in terms of. Knowing how you. Go through the budget process. In. Your efforts to already. Create a reserve. Are you comfortable, with. Limiting, your ability, to. Make those kind of budget decisions, and budget adjustments. Yeah, the big question is how you define, budget surplus. Uh. Because, uh whether that's defined, as the number. You, have. To allocate, in june or the number that comes, back. In the, september, report, and i think that will be. An interesting subject, for robust, conversations, at the council, i haven't thought. Through it all to really figure all that out. I would say look i don't think there's any problem with us tying ourselves to the mast. As long as we can untie ourselves when we need to and, i think having strong guidance, that we're focused on building reserves.
Is An important thing to do in a city that, has chronic, fiscal challenges, so. I i'm fine with it um. Obviously, i'm out of here in two years so, it'll be somebody else's challenge to deal with surpluses. I'll just focus on deficits, right now. Okay. And jim i i know that you said you uh. Want to also speak to that, that item did you have any other input to, add. Thank you vice mayor yeah just a couple things so i um, the way i'm reading it it would be something. You know when. The council member references, the october budget, update i'm interpreting, that to mean the annual. Report, process, where. If we have any additional fund balance, after we do all the corrections, and the, read budgets and adjustments. What's that amount left over what do you do with that amount. And i think the the the good news from my perspective, is that, you know council has given us some good direction in city council policy. 1-8-18. Which kind of gives some direction, about how to allocate, that. Fund balance. First we make sure we we we fill up our reserve for next year's anticipated, deficit. Then once that's full then what we do is we look to. The budget stabilization. Reserve, the contingency. Reserve. Unmet deferred, in, infrastructure. And then any other urgent, needs there, you know so i think you know if. When we come back with this item i think we will probably. Want to recommend. Um you know a modification. Of city of that city council policies and that's really served the council well. Over this time, um and maybe there's some nuance there. Um, that, that we might want to put, um. I think i mean, we are already planning, if there is any extra fun fun balance i mean i think this time around the budget stabilization, reserve is it right we want to build that that thing back up to help us out with future budget cycles. Um you know we may want you know we'll put our heads around it and see you know what sort of, uh. Discretion, or leverage we want to make sure it's still available to council to address things like, unmet deferred, infrastructure. Which is always you know is, a, 1.5, billion dollars and growing, um so that's a, key consideration. And just other thing to think about is that you know this is a. 15. Of the general fund right now will be about 190, million dollars so it's certainly a long hill to climb. Um to, get there um but that's just sort of the the nuance, that, that i wanted to, throw out there and if the council member has any concerns, about.
Us Looking at that city council policy, as as one of the one of the tools, to. To look at maybe this change. No i i, oh sorry, go ahead, we're probably going to say the same thing go ahead. No i i i'm fine with that i mean because. In in my memo, to the mayor's point. To me there's no question about trying to go after a budget surplus, in june versus october, to or september. Uh i'm i'm talking about after we go to the typical budget cycle and, when we do all the readjustments, i want to make sure that every bill or every obligation, we have as a city is accounted for and i don't even anticipate, this, to be to come into play. You know in the next two three years it's going to be further down but i think it's important to have that kind of instinct and rule in place, uh that whenever, we get to uh the good times again, and there is. A surplus. Extra money it's gonna be, unrestricted, dollars right and there's going to be this urge to, to spend to, make up for all the years of, lien spending. Uh but i think even when we face that uh we should continue to be disciplined, and i recognize that 15, is a lot uh but to the extent that, we can pay ourselves first. Um. And and like you know like when i. When i was in high school i learned from a, like a econ professor or professor teacher high school teacher, um, and just out of listening to that. One class day whenever i got my first paycheck and ever since i've just put away 10, of my paycheck. And just pretended i didn't have it, um. And then spent the rest on comic books and and whatever else right, but but such you know stashing away that ten percent, uh, has been a good habit and i think that's something that we can, bring to the city for public finances, as well, and if if i could i just want to make sure, in alice gym. I would say even in our current. Fiscal, crisis. Through the annual report, process, it wouldn't be uncommon, to have. A. Money come out of that process just as we kind of look at. Revenue and expenditures, am i wrong jim. Uh no, no you're you are. Correct so um, yeah i mean as part of the annual, report, process. We would you know, one. You know there's a lot of things are going to happen the next few weeks here as we kind of finalize, where we're going to end up for 19. 1920, but, regardless, there are a number of, budgetary, transactions, that we need to do in any given, given year. Um, you know if. Including, you know addressing. Additional shortfalls that may come up as part of the interview, too, so i think, what we're talking about here would still would apply even in, in these deficit, years. Yeah so i i just didn't want to. Give anyone the impression that we would this would be something we'd be talking about two or three years from now i think we'll be talking about it every year during the annual report. Yeah yeah sure and i think, thank you for the clarification, and that's good to know that we still might find some excess dollars, even in these lean years. But even still, my my, vision is not to compete with other needs of the city, i think it's really to just, exercise some discipline, on the council, that when we have these extra dollars we don't go, um. You know how about this project, and finding ways to spend them i think we should just be very clear up front that our our priority, is to save. Um. First and foremost to build up that reserve, fund again. Okay jim i'm gonna show you the difference between. A lawyer answering, that question, and a business person. With a business background answering that question. I'm only supportive. Of, a strategy, of, figuring out how we can modify, policy. 1.18. To incorporate. Council member dep's. Recommendation. But in that context, of that policy. So forget it. Uh. Let's ask. Which one you understood more. Um. Item number two and i'll, i'll i'll speed up to get through these but uh, uh i'm glad there was a clarification. When i when i read this, uh. I walked away with the impression that we were talking about creating. A, new standing commission. For, each. Individual, ballot, measure or policy proposal. So, it would be great if it was like, a single standing, commission. Just to be just to have some clarity. On that. And. And i really like the idea of uh the neighborhoods commission, being that, that entity. Um. The, item number three. Uh. And i'd like to hear it quickly, from from alex, but. I was on the impression that. That's the way the process has been working. All along. Do we need to have you know, council direction, to.
To, Put that. A process, in place so alex can you uh. Educate, us on. What's going on, yeah sure alexandria. Felton, senior, executive, analyst with the. Um office of intergovernmental. Relations, so, yes that actually, is the current process that we have so, on a regular basis, we update, council, we and and we sort of align, that with, both the federal, and state budget when that comes into place so that's one of the reasons why that's on. In terms of priority setting that's on for that's been green lighted by staff so that's part of the the, typical, process, that we actually. At when the um, when the initial budget is introduced. The governor's budget in january. Usually we'll put out a and it will put out an info memo we also do, two, updates, to council one in march and one in early june, and then we have our larger update. In, november, which actually coincides. With. When on the federal government, somewhere around the period when the federal government, is approving, the final, budget, for, um for the federal government, so, yes we we currently, are, that's why we sort of approve that because we we're currently already doing that. Okay, great. And then uh, last but not least uh, joe on, on the items, that uh. Council member deb was recommending, that you focus on. Uh. In some form or fashion we're. As you already stated we're. Doing those types of audits, but i know that. For each department, is really going into specific, areas of that department, as opposed to a comprehensive. Audit of the whole department. Is is your understanding. That. Are you comfortable, with. Having a process, where you do a comprehensive. Audit, of. The whole department, as opposed to. Individual, uh, aspects, of that department. I guess that's a question i would have, um. For clarity, um, usually, as you said we do look at individual, programs. Or course services. As opposed to. The whole department. Um. The the. Question, is is when we, take on something that. Broad, we can't go that deep, when we look at a program, and focus then we can get pretty deep into it and that's where we really find the process efficiencies, and the budget savings. I read it as um, hitting the departments, but not necessarily.
That. Um. Audit. Part, you know prs. Um because, for example, the we just uh we'll be wrapping up a. Parks, maintenance, audit shortly that'll have a bunch of process efficiency. Pieces. Uh last year we did marriage. Prevention task force we looked at community center rios before that, so these were programs, that we took so i read it as more in that vein did i, am i wrong, on. That. Author, to uh. Defer, to council member depp on. Yeah so no i don't think you're you're off joe. Again, the idea is to, be top level i understand that departments, are vast and we can't really go deep especially as you know on every single floor. Uh, but i think it's it's good for the public. Yeah. Go ahead. No i was just, that's the way i read it so so i'm, i'm glad we're, i'm glad i'm in agreement with you on that. Great. That's it that's all from uh, all my questions mayor. Great thank you. All right on the. Motion, dad. Let's vote. Davis. Hi. Kamis. I. Jones. Hi, ricardo. Hi. Okay thanks everybody. We're on to open. Forum. Is this open forum mayor, it is yes. Oh okay, okay, um. Hey that's a good one deb, good one. I was following, it the whole time. Um. Ah man this is like mind-boggling. Man because the only time that i, like came across, this form of communication. And this. Kind of like, really rich. Coded, talk. Was around certain types of. People. And. I. Just i i didn't expect, that form of uh, communication. Within the context of my own city government. That that is like. Kind of like uh. It's a it's a bit disconcerting. Kind of kind of kind of knocks me off balance. Because. If. If the communication. Is clear, between, the city, and the uh. The constituent. And this is the form to do it not in some back room not. Not with some little small core group, but, out in the open form. So that so that it it can be it can be up for examination. For, whatever it is that's what they did in the greek forms. In the greek forms they threw it out there and they just. They just went ahead and tore up and whatever, was left. That was truth. Not, this, um. Uh. I don't know just what's been going on here. But um. I have an appreciation. For it because, it actually, is, the method, that's being employed, to uh. Conduct, uh city. City business. And uh. Uh, like i said with, i'm the only place that i'm coming from, is from. The. Historical. Context here