Дмитрий Крышталь (Agami Mosh): деньги в банке не принадлежат вам |ENG SUB| Crypto True Talk #1| 18+
Dmitry: everyone thinks that’s their money. Nastia: Throw it into the closet on the road and everyone is like, "oh let's go, we are a good road to Closer". People are used to seeing, touching money. Dmitry: This is an evolutionary process. And, you know, I believe both whores and blackjack should be there … Nastia: Give me instructions.
Dmitry: So you come to Kyiv Food Market with a bar of gold and you just start rubbing the bar. Basically, people chase such easy money that may quickly help them become rich. Nastia: Let’s say I have Bitcoin and want to buy myself an apartment. Dmitry: Buy one. You can. One of them was even kidnapped in Ukraine.
They paid ransom and I didn’t sleep for a couple of days. Everyone has heard about it. But no one saw. Dmitry: Yes, crypto happened *laughing* Nastia: Hello everyone! This is Nastia and this is True Talk again. Unexpectedly, even for myself, I decided to do a small series of interviews off topic, not specifically on the topic of music, let's say, but on a similar topic, a very modern issue and actively discussed in a progressive modern society - cryptocurrency, NFT, tokens, and so on. This happened because recently I received a token as a gift for my birthday.
Stanislav Tolkachev gave me his first NFT token but in order to acquire it I had to go through a certain procedure of introduction to this technology. So I found one agency with which we began to cooperate and develop this story, to plan something for Nechto, for my label and brand in the future. The idea was born: to tell you in plain language what it is, why it is important, why it is so hyped now and why all people who consider themselves a part of the art crowd - be it a media art or fine art or music - it seems everyone now wants to present themselves in the crypto community.
Therefore, I decided to conduct three interviews with different specialists in the field, here in Ukraine, and the first interview is with Dima Kryshtal. Hello Dima. Dmitry: Hi, Nastia. It is a great honor to participate and somehow help you and the audience understand what crypto is. Nastia: Cryptocurrency wasn't the reason we met with Dima. Music was.
I was collecting demos, and since Dima makes music he sent some to me. Dima, how are you connected with music? Tell me first. Dmitry: I've been dj'ing for over 10 years, since the beginning of 2009.
At the time, if you remember, there were such clubs as Cinema, Most (Bridge), and I did hard openings and closings there. I organized parties until 2015, and when Most closed, when Bereza came and called Most a drug den, I was having an event under the bridge that day. So after that, you know, I somehow immediately disbelieved in the style of music with which I worked.
It is very European music, and since there was no visa-free entrance to the EU, people said: "Dude, we don't need you here from Ukraine, like at all." So I somehow didn't do anything for 5 years and maybe just last year I decided to recover with such styles as a hard techno acid at 140-135 bpm. I played at two raves: here with Asus and Thomas Schumacher and the second time with the Nines (Nine Times Nine). I realized that this is what I miss so much, I want to do music again, to create. And now, I create it on the sly. Nastia: As I understand, during that period between losing faith and interested again, something happened.
Dmitry: Yes, crypto happened *laughing*. I worked, and I worked quite a lot and got into crypto in 2017. I have a twin brother, I had a business with him and we fell out a little, and I decided to find some strong team that I could join and learn something. The first job was not related to crypto, and then they replied to my CV, it was EXMO, a fairly large exchange.
At that time, attention, I did not understand anything at all: what crypto, blockchain, or bitcoin were. It was something very distant. I come and they tell me - look at our exchange, we trade crypto here. And I am like - what? I thought it was some kind of Forex, and you know straight away that it had a weird set of associations. I thought I'd give it a try. I did a test assignment, and it was accepted.
And that's how I started working in crypto and got sucked in. Nastia: The reason why am I asking Dima about music is because in general the idea of ??these interviews came from how crypto is now closely connected to art, music, visual arts and so on, why it is crucial to take part in it, and why all galleries and museums should create their own NFTs. How to do it right and not to get lost immediately from the very beginning? So Dima, when the exchange offered you a job there but you understood nothing, where did you start learning? Dmitry: I came there to work as a marketing manager and in order to correctly perform the assigned tasks, I needed to understand what it was. There, I met two guys: Pasha Verner and Ilya Chernyshov. They are former CEO and CFO of the exchange.
Long story short: one of them was even kidnapped in Ukraine. They paid ransom and I didn't sleep for a couple of days. It was terrible. It was the moment when bitcoin reached $19,000, the first All Time High. The guy who was kidnapped had a list of people who we needed to meet. And every day for 3-4 months I came to them with a piece of paper and said, "Well, guys, it's time for some stupid questions."
Because I did not understand anything about money or the way banking or payment systems worked. Crypto was something very complicated to me. At that moment, you know, it really got into my head: wow! This is possible! It inspired me a lot.
I had no idea there was such a monetary system that did not belong to anyone, only you and the 12 words to your wallet. You just need to remember them. Aaand... I went down that rabbit hole, you know. Nastia: So tell us what cryptocurrency is. So that your mother would watch this YouTube video and understand.
Dmitry: In general, if we talk about crypto, the first thing I wanted to stress is that it is a technology. It is a ledger of distributed data. To put it simply, have you ever used a torrent? Nastia: Yes, of course.
Dmitry: Do you understand how torrents work? There are computers that have a torrent client installed on them. They can download something while also distributing it. If those who download have a lot of seeds - a certain number of materials or files that are downloaded - then they have a high download speed. This way, it is also a distributed system, only a distributed file system.
Bitcoin is a distributed data system. As a metaphor, let's take an Excel page with two columns. The first column is the wallet address and the second column is the number of coins that are held on that wallet. Inside the blockchain, data changes in the form of how coins move from one address to another.
And in the block - the blockchain (the "chain of blocks") - there is a certain amount of memory, in which we can place a certain number of transactions. Nastia: It's endless. Dmitry: It's endless, yes. But if we talk about infinity, then it just keeps getting more complicated. Each time, finding a block becomes more difficult. Nastia: I associate crypto mining only with mining coal.
Dmitry: Well, it's very similar to traditional mining, in fact. I think you can even use the word "mining" interchangeably but I'm not sure. Nastia: I think that our viewers do not know what mining is and everything becomes very difficult.
Dmitry: Mining is about finding and adding blocks to the blockchain. Essentially, the data in this chain of blocks is impossible to alter. It's append-only, so to revert the history of transactions you have options but they are not realistic. One of the options is a 51 percent attack, that is...
Let's imagine all the power of bitcoin, all the power of bitcoin mining. To hack bitcoin, you need to create a new chain that will be supported by miners - those who mine, and miners are computers. But they are not interested...
This is not even the question of whether they are interested or not, the question is where to get 51% of the capacity. This is so much that if you pull it together, trying to collect all the global energy sources, for example, by building factories that will create these computers to produce crypto... I explain in simple terms, using few terminology. I know it's confusing, we started with scripts, then switched to blockchain, now we say ... this is all, this is all in one. And in order to understand all this, there are no questions about how it is mined, how many of them are there, and so on.
I just try to explain on the spot the fundamentals. Here is a 51% Attack when, for example, you have collected 51% of the power and launched them on the bitcoin network.For example, you collected everything, you made about 5, 10 or 15 blocks there, and the main chain can go into your new one. And this is how you can hack the bitcoin blockchain. Are there examples? Did this happen? This has happened with other currencies that operate with different consensus models.
I'll explain quickly what the consensus is. Bitcoin works by Proof of Work (PoW) consensus. It proves that the miner completed the work. In simple terms, mining is a solution to a problem. That is, how it turns out, bitcoin is mined, it is very important not to miss it.
For instance, I have a machine that solves problems, and you have a machine that solves problems. Hence, you and I are miners. And whose device will be able to solve the last problem inside the block first, that device is given a reward in the form of bitcoin. Currently, it is 6.25 bitcoins. But over time, about every four years, this reward is divided by 2 when a so-called halving takes place.
And with the increase in power, with the addition of all these computers to the common network, the power is constantly growing and the difficulty of mining also grows, and the reward decreases. All the loot is also growing and the reward is decreasing very difficult, but now Nastia: Please explain to me and the viewers, why did you suddenly jump into talking about the difficulty to change the file? Is it to steal or hack it? Is it why it's important? Dmitry: Bitcoin and a virtual asset in general, as they like to say in Ukraine, was created so that people on the Internet who do not trust each other could trust each other. So that they could have some kind of relationship with each other. For example, money: when you send bitcoin to someone, the person to whom you sent it to, cannot tell you that he did not receive it.
Because all transactions within the bitcoin network, within the blockchain, are visible. You can see all transactions that were on this wallet at the wallet address. Nastia: Does anyone have access to this information? Dmitry: Everyone, anyone can get access.
Back to the question: why do we need crypto and why do we need blockchain? It is required that people who do not trust each other could interact. Nastia: Roughly speaking, so that no one would fool anyone. Everyone knows, well, I think that it's common knowledge that bitcoin is the most popular cryptocurrency, everyone has heard about it. Imagine an alien arrived. Can you tell him and us what exactly bitcoin is, what types of cryptocurrencies are, and the history of the cryptocurrency overall? Dmitry:Bitcoin was created by a dude called Satoshi Nakamoto. Now, of course, it is not known whether it is 1 person or a group of people.
Nobody knows who Satoshi Nakamoto is, but in 2009... Nastia: 2008! Dmitry: Aha, it was the launch of the Genesis Block in 2009, yeah. Nastia: I prepared! Dmitry: Okay.
In 2008, Satoshi Nakamoto published a white paper on bitcoin.org and called on the community to support him. How exactly to support? Earlier, as soon as bitcoin appeared, it could be mined on computers, on the simplest, most ordinary computers, downloading an application.
Via this simple manipulation, one could mine bitcoins on own computer. At that time, I may be wrong, but this is an approximate, a wild guess, people could mine a thousand bitcoins a day. Who knew what would happen next? As a result, Satoshi Nakamoto... No one knows who Satoshi Nakamoto is, the whole hype in my memory began around 2014. When the Mt. Gox exchange was hacked.
It was the the first decentralized autonomous organization built on a different blockchain, not on the bitcoin blockchain, but on the Ethereum blockchain. I'll tell you about it in a minute. And at that time ... not even , it was 2011, it was hacked in 2011.
And between 2011 and 2015, there was a big crypto boost and hype: 430,000 bitcoins were stolen; court hearings are still taking place regarding those assets from that exchange. People were just shocked, bitcoin at that moment fell from $1200 to $100 and it was kinda flat like that for a long time, in consolidation. After that, somehow it all turned around so much that people began to make new products and new protocols. At that moment, Vitalik Buterin, a Russian who lives in Canada, came up with such a project, a product, and a cryptocurrency called Ethereum. Its main difference from Bitcoin is that it's not just a ledger like an ordinary Excel spreadsheet accounting for addresses and the number of coins in wallets. Instead it's a platform where people can negotiate with others on the Ethereum blockchain.
It also allows the creation of smart contracts to receive ether. Now I will try to give an example, a super simple one, to explain how it works. For instance, we are making a bet that tomorrow at 2:00 pm the weather will be 20 degrees. So in order for our dispute to be valid and so that you can trust me and I can trust you, so that we will not deceive each other, we can sign a smart contract.
If this dispute is monetary, we can send money to this smart contract and prescribe that if tomorrow at 2:00 pm it is more than 20 degrees Celsius, then you win. But if it is less than 20 degrees Celsius, then I win. And we just set the terms of the smart contract and tomorrow 2:00 pm it will work and decide everything for itself - who won and who lost. And now, on the basis of these smart contracts, there is, in fact, a financial revolution taking place: a lot of cool projects are under one umbrella term - DeFi or Decentralized Finance.
This has been going on for the last year, even more than 2 years, a real hype about decentralized finance, as you know. The next generation banks where there are just you and your wallet, and you give permission to the decentralized application to use your money. Moreover, you can be sure that the application will not take this money anywhere, because, metaphorically speaking, you can read a smart contract. It's the most suitable and works best with financial instruments. Nastia: Nevertheless, let's say my crypto is something very complicated, people are used to seeing, touching money, so we have a lot of money in the cash in Ukraine.
If you look at the declarations of the MPs, they keep their money somewhere in the cellar, if there are people who cannot trust banks, then how can they trust crypto without any experience? Why, what for, if you had to convince me and say "Nastia, why are you putting money in the bank, invest in crypto. Well, like, in the future. Try to convince me that this is really better than you putting money in the bank, or the more you keep it under the carpet. Dmitry: If you take, for example, any currency of any country, everyone thinks that's their money. I also believe that the money in my wallet is mine.
In fact, looking at any bill, you will immediately read the inscription "National Bank of Ukraine," for example. Or "National Bank of the United States of America." It is not your money, it is the money of the bank and the state.
This money can depreciate at the click of a finger, no one is immune from this. I think you remember the collapse of the Soviet Union when there were coupons, when there were hryvnias, when these coupons were printed in millions ... Now they are pieces of paper. Nastia: But that was because of inflation. But bitcoin is volatile, its price is constantly changing ... Dmitry: Bitcoin is volatile.
In retrospect, when bitcoin was born, it did not cost anything, now it peaked at $60,000. Literally a year and a half ago, bitcoin was worth $4,000 in May. It was possible to buy back then for a fairly good price, here it's a matter of technology and the question of whether a person understands the technology... I would sit down with you and discuss: "hey, look: buy bitcoin, then just send it to yourself." You would have to make a wallet, write down 12 secret words, while you would resent: "damn, what are these words?" But it's a code that lets you install and run your wallet on any device. You will be the only one who knows these 12 words and, thus, has access to your money.
Therefore, crypto and virtual assets are your own assets unless you transfer these 12 words to someone or move money to the exchange. Good. How to use it? Let's say I want to buy myself an apartment. Buy one.
You can. By the way, there is a company in Ukraine called Propy whose co-owner is, or somehow involved in it, Mark Ginzburg. It was the world precedent of buying an apartment for crypto. If you really want, you can buy an apartment for crypto, but it's not so easy. Even on the internet. That is, there is nothing complicated here, but the question is different.
You know, when they ask me what bitcoin is, I have a wonderful phrase that answers for me and it is difficult to translate it into Ukrainian, there is no analogy of this, you know. A sharp word that will explain it. "bitcoin is an asset of value." Many people call bitcoin digital gold. So you come to Kyiv Food Market with a bar of gold or to Orangutan and say "I want a drink." They tell you "Well, it costs this much," and you just start rubbing the bar.
Gold is not even profitable. It is not logical to come with gold, sprinkle a bit of it to buy something. No need, since it's an asset, an asset of value. Nastia: Well, somehow ... unconvincing. Dmitry: Listen, I'll see you in a year.
Say, you know what happened before, you see that right now. In my opinion, the price is the primary motivator. The price and so-called FOMO (fear of missed opportunity). It seems that many have already felt what FOMO is when, for example, bitcoin was at $4, and now it costs $40. Yes, but many people lose money too.
This is an evolutionary process. And, you know, I believe both whores and blackjack should be there ... everything has to be there: both blood and death.
Nastia: You are dramatizing. Dmitry: You know, many people have lost money, and I am one of them too. Because of stupidity and because of other reasons. I lost some crypto, figuratively speaking. Nastia: Well, when you lose, figuratively speaking, is it a matter of insufficient information or education? Dmitry: Yes, generally both. Nastia: Let's say I want to invest in crypto.
I'd better spend some time learning and talking to many people to understand specifically where and how much before investing. It is still a question that requires some research. Dmitry: It is essential to understand that some major currencies were created a long time ago and have already existed for a while. But there are a lot of new interesting projects that can give, for example, many Xs; basically, people chase such easy money that may quickly help them become rich, but this is always a big risk. And there are always uneducated people who are aping in, buying crypto and striving for quick money. So, first of all, there is no quick money in crypto.
Then, Nastia, I recommend going into it for the long run. Nastia: So there must be some kind of strategy? Dmitry: Yes, a strategy. Strategy timewise. Even separate ones for both price and time.
When buying bitcoin, you must understand that, for example, I bought bitcoin now for $40,000 and I will withdraw it when it costs $100,000. And so you know that you have crypto there, and you sit and wait. Nastia: But will it certainly get there? You still cannot count on any guarantees. You can, of course, sit and wait and grow old by this moment, but ... Dmitry: I'll tell you this: when I got into crypto, I remember very well bitcoin cost $670. 0.1 BTC would be sent as a test.
Now 0.1 BTC, jokes aside, is $4,300. Had I known earlier that there would really be such hype with crypto and bitcoin, I would've been setting it aside. Therefore, now I am doing it in baby steps, like 10% of the income, some part of the income I definitely set aside for buying bitcoin, or [investing in] some kind of technological project.
I've just been into this for a long time, I know something about technology, so it's easier for me to kind of follow the trends. If I see some cool technology that solves certain problems that blockchain can solve, then I buy this coin. But in baby steps, I put it aside, I don't touch it at all. This is my approach.
I don't want to touch anything at all for 4 years and then see where it is. Nastia: So, generally anyway, this is a profitable investment. Dmitry: This is a risky investment. I cannot call it profitable. You can compare so many different investments and investment methods, but bitcoin is the most risky investment method, but also the most transparent. Nastia: bitcoin is a forefather of all cryptocurrencies.
Dmitry: Yes, bitcoin is figuratively the father. Nastia: All other cryptocurrencies were, how to say ... modified. From bitcoin.
Dmitry: Yes, yes. From this technology. Yes. Nastia: Okay, so if I want to buy bitcoin, what should I do? Let's say I'm like "Damn, I need to buy bitcoin."
Dmitry: If I may, I want to be a bit of an anarchist and a kind of an opponent of regulations and passing any KYC and so on. Imagine that this type of a bearded crypto veteran who does not give his passport to anyone and is not registered on Binance. In general, the first thing you should do is to buy it on, preferably not on your card, or for cash, so that your data is not on the Internet; because basically on the Internet, if you want to buy crypto for yourself on a centralised exchange, you need to be verified.
Nastia: Uh-huh. Dmitry: Know Your Customer and AML procedure. Therefore, I recommend to avoid exposing passport data and trying to get away from all sorts of these KYC, checks and so on. Nastia: Well, let's say I have cash, where should I go? How do I buy bitcoin? Give me instructions.
Dmitry: The first one is Bitzlato. This is a telegram bot. The second is BestChange, an exchange aggregator.
And thirdly, there are offices in Kyiv, quite a few of them cash out, sell, or buy crypto for cash. Nastia: From all of this I understand only the last statement - there is an office in Kyiv, where I can go, give the cash, and say "buy me bitcoin." Dmitry: And you will get bitcoin. Nastia: Listen, how do I store it if I don't register or enter my data anywhere? Where will I keep it? Dmitry: There are many ways to store it: many people like to keep bitcoin in cold wallets. A cold wallet is figuratively a flash drive that contains a cryptocurrency wallet where you can store crypto. Nastia: I have a funny story about a friend who dived into a swimming pool with his flash drive.
Dmitry: And he has 12 words of a recovery phrase from this flash drive. Nastia: I don't know about that. Dmitry: Probably, nothing terrible happened, but if he ...
Nastia: He was really worried. Dmitry: Then, maybe not. You know, I don't like cold wallets, because I do not understand what they are for, when you can, say, make a cold wallet yourself with a USB flash drive by simply throwing the wallet.dat file in there. You drop it there, put it somewhere safe You must write down 12 or 24 words, depending on the type of encryption used by a cold wallet. But in general I am against cold wallets.
Nastia: What is another option? Dmitry: Wallets on mobile devices and also wallets on computers. There are many of them, they are different, and I recommend Electra if we are talking about bitcoin. This is an open source solution, its code is available at the public domain. So let's say we are programmers and we understand how the code that we want to check is written. Everyone who wants to check what kind of application it is and how it is created can come in to see, read the code of this application, making sure there are no backdoors, he will not be deceived, and his crypto will be safe.
I do not recommend storing crypto on mobile devices. Even now I would give such a small "crypto 101" for a crypto newbie: I do not recommend storing crypto on a mobile device, I do not recommend storing recovery phrases on cloud services, this password must be written on a piece of paper and then hidden somewhere. If you need a mobile wallet and want to use the crypto using your phone, then disable the fingerprint from the code, and secondly, disable Face ID.
And only unlock your phone with a passcode. Nastia: Well, a mobile device for crypto is generally the most unreliable ... Dmitry: As unreliable as possible. Nastia: Generally.
Dmitry: But now this is reality and commonplace. To trade and participate in DeFi projects which I mentioned before, you can do it from your phone, and it is convenient. So unfortunately ... Nastia: Please tell me, in general for any user, is there a perfect application that allows to follow the cryptocurrency rates, and so on? In your opinion, are there any instructions at all, resources where you could see what applications you need to use to keep track of this whole thing? Dmitry: Applications ... There are a lot of them online, a huge number of them, but you
know what... It reminds me about a very important thing for young people: if you want to get into crypto, there is the Forklog website, which we discussed earlier, that has Forklog cards. I would start my introduction to crypto from these cards. This is a super clear description of the terminology and what happens in general, and these cards are then going into more serious, deep, complex things.
Nastia: What's the most popular type of cryptocurrency now? Dmitry: It seems to me that the most hyped one is definitely Solana. Not functioning yet and undervalued is Polka Dot. And probably BNB. Nastia: How are they different? Dmitry: At the very least... they differ by consensus model; they are built on different
blockchains. Nastia: That is, the principle of work? Dmitry: Essentially, they work in the same way: the only difference is a functionality data register inside those cryptocurrencies. The more technical Solana, roughly speaking, is something very similar to Ethereum, but it is more scalable and it scales with the mining hardware. And when there is a certain exponent: the faster and more powerful the hardware that Solana mines, the higher Solana's transactional, through-put capacity is. It's complicated. Nastia: Hard to understand.
Dmitry: In general, Solana gets more powerful with the better computer's hardware. So it scales like this. Nastia: Yeah, so it depends on the power ... Dmitry: Yes, on the hardware power. Nastia: Listen, you say "hardware", I say it about coal. Like here you can mine coal, there you can mine bitcoin.
The same thing about hardware ... Tell me about mining to make it clearer. Dmitry: There is so much terminology, I am already too deep into it. Nastia: Well, of course, there is a lot of slang. There are many new concepts. I think, I don't know ... I came to the guys at the agency I'm working with now, the guys
talk at the presentation, show pictures, everyone seems to be prepared, everything seems to be simple, but nothing is clear ... Really, one needs to spend.. I don't know [how much time]. Dmitry: It seems to me that the main problem is that we are used to understanding and feeling money differently. We are used to the fact that here is our money - this is a Hryvnia made of paper, these are coins, paper. I can go and buy something for Hryvnia. And when crypto makes you dig deeper into how money is created, how it is issued, in general, what it is; when you dig into all this very, very deeply, the brain starts to work a little differently and starts to resist: "How? How is it? I do not understand how."
But in fact it is very simple. Nastia: Well, you really have to learn. It seems to me that crypto is akin to science, it is a technology that, you know, reminds me of a story about Steve Jobs, in my opinion, or Elon Musk, I just can't remember, I forgot. He was coming to different companies and telling what a website is, why this is the future, how it works and they looked at it like "what you are suggesting is some kind of a conditional page on the Internet, it is not clear how to promote our product with these sites," right? And now we have everything centralized, it works there through Google, through ... any technology is implemented with a lot of difficulties and I liked how while I was researching this topic, the guys described how the rejection stage goes first, like "what the hell?", then the hype, then this bubble bursts, the excess falls off, the technology is gradually being introduced into life.
When I was reading about this, when I was studying, I realized that it really is a technology, a progressive technology of the future, and perhaps even because of this technology it is possible to hold elections in a transparent way, to make some decisions that are more global, not only to buy - to sell something, to multiply ... roughly speaking, using it for Xs, in general, of course, it seems easier for youngsters. It's like, you know, when you buy a new iPhone, when it just came out, with a touch screen and you say, "Mom, use it." Mom looks at it and thinks, "God, what is this, I don't even know how to use it, it's scary to press a button, and some other application will drop out there, that something will not be saved there. There is a lot of fear of how it works, especially if you don't know anything about it.
Therefore, there is a desire to somehow understand, but you need to spend a lot of time in a community which already understands how it works. Dmitry: At the very least, you need to buy some. After you buy crypto, you become very interested and you immediately want to find out how crypto is doing now.
Whether you are up or down depending on how much you bought. This comes directly from experience. Nastia: Well, it's like a casino, to be honest. Reminds me of gambling ... Dmitry: The excitement that people experience on the stock exchange when they come there and start trading with leverage. That is real gambling, a real casino.
But crypto is not just a risk; it is a big serious risk, but it is justified, because you understand that this is not someone's money, this is not bank money, this is not the money of Uncle Vasya's, Auntie Lyuba's, this is not the money of your employer, this is your money that no one can do anything with it. For example, I got on camera while driving and I didn't pay the fine. I missed something there and my accounts were blocked because I didn't pay the 250 hryvnia fine. It turns out that I am on the hook and under surveillance - a step to the left, a step to the right, I've done something wrong, and they block my funds.
Nastia: "Mine." Dmitry: Come on ... and you have already begun to understand. "My funds, yes."
And with bitcoin it won't happen. If it's your wallet, then whatever you do, this money will be yours. Nastia: Okay. What are tokens and how are they connected, here I am, to music? Dmitry: And by the way, they have already contacted you with the question of what ... Can I release a record with NFT, if you have already released it? Nastia: No, it seems to me that ... Well, the way I initially understood is that it
should be something exclusive. It's not interesting to buy an NFT if this record is already on Bandcamp. It must be something unique ... I do already know a thing or two about it. Dmitry: Well, DaKooka, for example, made an NFT. Nastia: A lot of people are doing NFTs now. Yes, it is interesting.
Everyone works differently, I watched how it worked for Alyona Alyona, how Tolkachev recently sold the first track from his album... Dmitry: I would make a NFT with Tolkachev's press test, Tolkachev's vinyl test. And I, as a matter of fact, as the owner of this, I just can create an NFT and say "look, guys, a buyer of this NFT will receive Tolkachev's vinyl.
You see, you can even go about it this way. Even without being a copyright holder, and not being the owner of a certain thing that I want, for example, to be thrown out into the digital space, I can create NFTs like this. Nastia: Okay, but you are taking me away from my introduction and my main question about how NFTs and cryptocurrency are related to art in general. Dmitry: These are Budorin's questions, because I will now be carried in that direction, I really want to say about this ... Nastia: Guys, we will learn what NFTs are in the second issue, so now it is so abstract ... but of course we will discuss this in more detail. Dmitry: Let's talk about tokens.
You said, you had asked about tokens, about what they are and ... Nastia: Yes, what is a token? Dmitry: Now we dive into a lot of technical information. There are two types of tokens. Utility tokens and security tokens.
Simply put, a security token is a dividend token, when purchased, it gives you the opportunity to receive dividends from something. A utility token is the one that allows you to use a product. For example, a NFT ticket is a utility token. The ticket is probably not the best example, but Budorin's token High is a utility token, because it gives you access to his services.
There are two types of tokens. The difference is that everyone can actually issue a utility token, but to issue a security token, you need to obtain permission from the security exchange commission. At the Securities Commission.
And this is quite complicated both procedurally and legally ... In general, something like that. Nastia: Well, let's say I have a project and it turns out that if I publish it transparently, present it, and give tokens to anyone who invests in it.
If there is enough money and the project is successfully implemented, will the tokens rise in price? Dmitry: Yes. Nastia: This is an investment. Dmitry: This is called ICO.
You gave a cool example. I would change it a little. For example, you want to bring someone. You have an audience and you publicly say that "Guys, I want to bring such and such, or I issue 2,000 tickets there, which I sell at such and such a price."
Tickets are equal to tokens. If you buy, you won't only be able to visit the event, but also somehow use this token: sell it, or exchange it for some kind of merchandise. This is how it works. If people believe in your idea, want to help you, and understand benefits that come from it, it doesn't matter - they have a desire to help you, they buy your token, give their money and then either become investors or happily to go to your event. Nastia: If this is not a desire to just hold or help, but this is more ... Some kind of
miscalculation or a benefit, this is ... well, not all people think that here I am, without benefit, I will definitely have to support the project simply ideologically. Throw it into the closet on the road ... and everyone is like, "oh let's go, we are a good road to Closer". And everyone chips in.
It shouldn't be in the "we just want to support" framework. Dmitry: I howled a little, but okay. Nastia: Nothing funny! You have to cry. This is a real use case. Dmitry: A real use case. The roads are bad in Closer.
Nastia: In Kyiv, I would say. Closer has nothing to do with it. Dmitry: At Podol.
And this is the path along which you drive up to Closer? Nastia: We are talking about this road. Anyway Dmitry: Thanks for the clarification. Nastia: You are probably just not into the subject. Dmitry: In general, absolutely. Nastia: About tokens.
If you don't merely support it, it should be some kind of profitable exchange. Say, we invest, we support your project, but at the same time there is some kind of interest, that if the project is real cool, the tokens will rise in price, I will not just change my token there, I will not just come to the concert, but this has some kind of perspective, roughly speaking. Dmitry: If you lay out the tokenomics of the project, show that you will continue to develop the project, how you will use the money from the project, and prove that the token is inflationary, then yes.
Nastia: Well, it's effective. Dmitry: Yes, that it is effective. This is what it's used for. At least the investor will be interested in supporting the project and buying as many tokens as possible at the lowest possible price.
If he is convinced, of course, from your white paper, that you have cool tokenomics and you have written a road map, and the use of the token is correct. But that's why, you know, I like blockchain and I believe in blockchain and this technology exclusively from the fintech side. Blockchain is the perfect technology that fits fintech very well.
I'm a little skeptical ... Nastia: What is fintech? Dmitry: Financial Technologies. It is... Monobank is a fintech. Nastia: Financial technologies. Speak Russian.
These are your fancy English words. Dmitry: I'm used to it. You know, yesterday I met a girl who had lived for 15 years in America and at first it was very funny for me to talk to her: now a Russian phrase, then an English phrase, then a Russian, then an English one. But, indeed, there are already these words in our everyday life that you cannot name otherwise.
Nastia: I can argue, but let's move on. Dmitry: Hype. What do you call hype? Nastia: High interest.
Dmitry: Unhealthy high interest. Dmitry: Quite right. Nastia: You can always explain.
Dmitry: Well, yes, but it's difficult. Nastia: So, please, continue. Dmitry: Yes, I believe that blockchain and financial technology dovetail.
I am skeptical about NFTs, though. Well, people come to me for advice, and I approached you like three times. I said: "Nastia! I can just tell you what NFT is, get a free consultation."
Nastia: I was in the denial phase. No-no-no! Dmitry: And we never met. You see how we met now? Although I'm skeptical, I understand that in any case artificial intelligence plus VR plus design...
It will lead us to having other worlds, and these worlds will be on the Internet. They will be built on technologies, and it is already clear that these technologies will have blockchain as foundation. From this angle, I like NFTs. But I still perceive them, you know, as something collectible... like stamps for philatelists. I am not ready to collect and buy some art in the form of pictures or in the form of tokens.
I haven't come to that yet. I'm like a true anarchist -still waiting for some real cool, intelligent, technologically advanced and correct use of NFT tokens. That's why I am interested in sharing with you my understanding of the right path for NFTs. I guess you've come across car auctions in America: buying cars in America and so on. They also have this thing called carfax. You can request carfax which is a collection of data about a car, and no one knows that it is on the blockchain.
But it's on the blockchain! Nobody knows and nobody sees that there is a blockchain inside. That said, I believe it would be cool to mark the cars that are inside the Carfax base with NFTs. Or even some details that cannot be changed there or that need to be monitored so that later you are not deceived, so that they do not change, to mark every detail with an NFT. For me, this is a very real, clear, badass NFT case. Nastia: Effective, applicable. Well, alright.
There is logic in this, but I still disagree with you in the sense that collecting the same pictures is a useless business. It seems to me that this is, first of all ... well, here are the same Cryptopunks - a story with avatars that are made simply out of nothing. It is the most absurd story for me when some simple avatar pictures are thrown together and grow in price from 4 dollars to 40,000... Dmitry: I figured out how to convince you.
You know about these pictures, and MasterCard bought Cryptopunks for $140,000. How do you like this? Nastia: And what does it mean? Why does this have to convince me in any way? Dmitry: The fact that even the world's largest financial players are looking in this direction, into NFTs. Come on! Nastia: Well, look, you just challenged yourself. I mean, it makes sense - collecting ... Dmitry: I am a crypto anarchist and, you know, I believe in technology, but I don't understand it yet. And I think that the use case should be a little different.
But I don't mind. Nastia: Perhaps, only because you are not into art itself. We don't buy paintings for $40 million.
Dmitry: I have no money. Nastia: See?But there are collectors who buy and admire these paintings in their office there. Dmitry: Yes, well, I agree with you, OK.
But I am skeptical about this. Nastia: I understand. But this is your personal opinion, your attitude towards digital art.
Dmitry: Towards NFTs equated to digital art. I love art, I make music myself, so ... Nastia: After all, in any other art, NFTs are full of botchery... Dmitry: A huge amount of botchery. And if, for example, I could call the crypto market the Wild West before, NFTs now are the Wild West squared.
If not in cube. This is f*** up. And what about the test picture that was posted on the Solana blockchain? If I'm not mistaken, developers simply hand-wrote "test" on a white background in Paint and put it up for auction while its price skyrocketed to $40,000. What??? Nastia: Well, listen, Virgil Abloh signed your sneakers and they have already increased in price by five thousand euros, for sure. Dmitry: Virgil signed my friend's car and I'm wondering how much his car has grown in price.
Nastia: Well, now it is a piece of art. Dmitry: And now it's not for sale. Nastia: Dima, thank you very much for the conversation. Dmitry: Thank you. Nastia: In principle, we discussed everything like that.
I'm not sure that everyone understood everything, but we will continue this topic. Dmitry: I really, really hope that someone comments under the video. Let them ask questions, I am eager to answer with pleasure.
Nastia: Thank you very much. Dmitry: Thank you. I am delighted and honored to be here.
Nastia: For me too. We've just talked about crypto, bitcoin, NFTs and so on. All this is mysterious and unfamiliar, but that's the whole point of it and it is interesting to figure it out by myself. I think that not only for me, but for you too, because, yes, this is worth our attention, and this is like the Internet, this is the future. Dmitry: We'll all be there.
Nastia: So stay tuned, keep watching, this is True Talk, Cryptotalk with Nastia and Dima Krishtal. See you next time!