Why SpaceX’s BFS will fall like a skydiver and not fly like an airplane

Why SpaceX’s BFS will fall like a skydiver and not fly like an airplane

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Hi it's me Tim Dodd the everyday astronaut I just recently got back home from SpaceX's, headquarters where, I witnessed history as Elon Musk introduced us to yuusaku, Miyazawa from Japan as SpaceX's, first privately, funded passenger, the, destination, is a quick flight around the moon on SpaceX's, enormous, next-generation spaceship, the, BFS, or big, Falcon, spaceship, that's. The upper stage portion, of the bfr the big Falcon, rocket we only get updates, on SpaceX, is behemoth, of a rocket about once a year or so so. I have to say I was a little disappointed, in the lack of technical, updates, in the presentation, that being, said there is one thing, that was so mind-blowing. Ly crazy, Elon. Had to show us it twice, because it's so counterintuitive, and, so unique I think. It deserves its own deep dive today, we'll cover three topics first, we'll, compare the re-entry of the space shuttle to the re-entry of the BFS, and show, how they differ then. We'll explain the control, surfaces, that allow the BFS to perform this reentry, and then. We'll compare the thermal protection systems, of the space shuttle and the BFS, we'll look back at all the little clues and past presentations. Tweets and Retta AMAs I think. There's actually a lot of information, out there that will help us understand just how exactly the BFS, will re-enter and land, let's, get started. Ever. Since SpaceX tweeted this photo on September, 13th 2018. A lot, of people fear the bfr is slowly turning into the Space Shuttle quoting. Ever growing wings and a giant heat shield covering the belly of the ship so. How, is this any different than, the space shuttle so first up to compare the two let's. Look at them side-by-side the, space shuttles body and Delta wings provided, lift then kept the vehicle in the upper atmosphere longer. Leading, off speeds slowly so as not to overheat, the silicon tile heat shield then. The wings and control surfaces were, used to glide albeit.

Very, Steeply, to the runway to make a horizontal landing, like, an airplane now, on the BFS instead of having the fins and body of the vehicle generate, lift it's, trying to create as much drag as possible, using the entire, broad, side of the vehicle to aerobrake. Its, purpose is basically, to scrub off as much speed as possible very quickly, when the Space Shuttle reentered, had a 40, degree angle of, attack, that's. Quite, a bit different from the BFS which is going to have about a 90. Degree angle of attack the reason the BFS will be able to do this is because of those wings now. Really, these, aren't wings and we shouldn't call them that we, need to think of these more as air brakes as they, are not there to provide lift they're, only there to provide more or less, drag, now, they do this by changing their angle, just. Like an air brake and by, adjusting the amount of drag at the top or the bottom of the BFS they. Can change the pitch so you might think isn't, this kind of similar to a Virgin, Galactic control spaceship, twos reentry, which has that giant tail that flips up that allows it to re-enter. Safely, or perhaps you're a history buff and you're familiar with the Soviet Union's MIG 105, spiral, or later, the bore four which, have a variable, dihedral, wing, which changes, their angle of attack during. Descent although, these vehicles do have variable, surfaces, to change their orientation, they. Aren't really dynamic they. Move only to provide different configurations. Either, a more stable reentry, profile, or then, they change to provide more lift and control for the landing phase they, don't actively, go back and forth to continually, adjust the vehicles orientation, maybe the best example I can think of of a vehicle that actually changes its orientation by. Changing, drag would, be the b-2, stealth bomber. The. B-2 bomber actively, changes its yaw by utilizing, a split aileron, to, create drag on the left or the right wing, by, deploying what's essentially, an air brake on one wing or the other the, drag will actually, steer and orient, the vehicle this is honestly about the closest, example I can think of to a vehicle that changes, drag to modify its orientation, in this manner and when. You factor in that belly-first reentry. This dynamic drag, control is one of the reasons why the BF s is more like a skydiver, than an airplane a skydiver, controls, their orientation, by shifting, the amount of drag each limb generates, bend, your legs a little and your head will rise bend your arms and your head will lower one, time I would indoor skydiving.

To Test out a grid fin and, it, was awesome. But. I was really, really, really bad at it but there was an instructor there that was really good at it which was awesome to see instead. Of me going back into an indoor skydiving, place I decided. I just build something in Kerbal space program that Falls and controls, itself like a skydiver. And can land on a dime, okay now full disclosure I just spent about two hours doing a livestream building, and flying and testing, this, kind of little BFS here in Kerbal so, if you want to watch the entire thing for, some reason there's gonna be a link right here all, right welcome to Kerbal space program now if you're not familiar with this game it's basically like 50%, rocket, builder 50%, flight simulator and, 300%. Explosion, Factory okay. I know I know this doesn't look right at all there's like six air breaks down at the bottom for up at the top and. We have like separate landing gear this looks kind of nothing, like, the VF s but bear, with me this is because I built, this entirely, around, physics. And making sure that those air brakes were producing the right amount of drag and that the built-in, stability, control and Kerbal space program could, use the air brakes to change the amount of drag and therefore, you. Know actually, control the orientation of the vehicle through reentry air brakes are the only things that work like that fins don't work like that our, wings and other surfaces don't this. Is only using air brakes in order to prove that we're only using air brakes to maintain our orientation I'm. Actually going, I turned off the, stability of the reaction wheel inside the command module we're gonna turn off the RCS, throughout. Reentry, and even, when we do need it for that flip maneuver to put the tail down we're. Only using 25%. So that's like nothing, now. The only thing I did have to do in order to make this actually work, in Kerbal space program, I did, speed up the air brakes 10 times and that's so that the computer. Has enough control Authority and can actually maintain precise.

Enough Movement to. Actually let it do, everything, it needs to do so that's, the only way I can get this to work but let's, take this out to the pad and see if it works okay, so we're gonna take this thing out of the atmosphere or out of most the atmosphere get it just above 20,000. Meters and, then, we're going to leave a little bit of fuel left over to. Land with so. Let's do this here we go three two one hip-hip. Gear. Up. And fast-forward. Okay, now we're just gonna Coast up to our Apple abscess, we're, gonna be just shy of 20,000. Meters but it'll be high enough that we get it re-enter, through the atmosphere, once, we get to our peak our a flaps is our highest point we're, gonna go ahead and flip belly, first using, the, RCS. The, actual thrusters, then. We're going to deploy the air brakes and turn off the thrusters and just, let the air brakes, Vitus, safely, and point us in the correct orientation here, we go so, I'll hit one, which is going to make it so it wants to fall belly first, so we're controlling from this point once. We're there seven. To deploy the air brakes and our we're turning off the. Thrusters, and now, we. Are just falling. And, changing. Our pitch and fixing, our orientation, using. Only, these, fins these fins are, doing their job phenomenally, but, again I did have to speed them up like crazy in, order to give them the right amount of control Authority so, but this is kind of how it'll work this is a lot more dramatic. I think but in real life the, fins on the BFS, will all move together they'll just be one unit at each of, the four corners, but. Look at this once it's stable, the thing just, Falls. No problem and the beautiful, thing is even. Though we're really high and. Probably. You know if we had fallen straight back down we. Would have had to have a pretty massive burn. We're actually slowing down almost the entire way down so look at us now we're. Scrubbing, off velocity, as that, as, the atmosphere actually gets thicker and thicker and thicker we're, actually slowing down more and more and more that. Is perfect, how cool is that and it's. Stable. Here. We go three, two one, and flip. Gear. Out. Flying. Up the engines to help orientation. Really. Firing up the engines closing. The, top. Fins oh this, is gonna be perfect, oh. Yeah. A. Little. Blue Origin hover there for a second ah. Look. At that with 200, meters per second to spare even and we, hovered for a while I mean that's. Pretty amazing right that's, pretty. Amazing. Okay. We're gonna pop this thing up into orbit now alright, so we are in orbit around kerbin. We're, going to go ahead and try to land here at at, Kerbal Space Center. So I'm gonna do a reentry burn and then we're gonna flip belly first extend. The the air brakes and then, turn off RCS, and let just the air brakes maintain, our belly first orientation, so. Here we go. All. Right there we go we're, starting to glow red-hot getting, kind of spicy and, now that we have some atmosphere to play with I'm gonna go ahead and turn off our CS and just. Let the Finn maintain. Our orientation so. Here we go. All. Right the air brakes seem to be doing their jobs, fantastically. Man. III think, I hope we don't overshoot this, year we're still going pretty quick but there's also still quite a bit of velocity, just to scrub off so hopefully it's doing okay here I hope, we don't overshoot this.

But I I think we're okay I think. We're okay now notice the air brakes are going, crazy right now especially. As we kind of slow down as the atmosphere gets thicker and thicker they're really gonna have their work cut out for them so. But. I think we're gonna be close let's see if we can't land somewhere. Here in Kerrville Space Center that'll be awesome. Yeah. So it looks like we did overshoot, it a little bit I'm gonna just do a little bit of a boost, back burn here and see. Where we end up see. If we can't get this thing closed to the VAB. All. Right well we're gonna miss the vab this time. I. Would. Not want to see this flying over my head if I was working. I don't, know where we're gonna land what we're gonna do it. Ah. Good. Morning everyone I was work today. Just. Coming, in for a grasshopper landing. And. We'll go ahead and say this is the processing, facility that's, where it needed to be we're just trying to park it next to all the extra parts and stuff. But. Look at that, I, was, pretty sweet I'm. Not gonna lie it that was pretty great okay, I'm gonna cut you off there but, if you do want to see the rest of that or all, the other hundreds, of takes of trying to land that thing there. Is a link in the description but let's get back to talking about the BFS. Okay. Okay so that was all just to help illustrate the. Fact that you can control two vectors of a vehicle belly-flopping, by, using, just air brakes now one thing we don't know for sure yet is how exactly, they're, going to move those giant, fin slash air brake things, now Elon did mention in the talk that they'll require an awful lot, of force to move as in. Like the mega Newton scale, of force, that's. A lot people on reddit have already been doing some really deep, dives trying. To figure out what systems, they could actually use. That be strong enough and fast, enough and the consensus, is, who. Really, knows at this point it could be hydraulics. Or it could be electric, motors now. Hydraulics, might, be used but they're pretty slow and awfully, heavy motors. On the other hand can be lightweight but, they might not be able to handle that kind of load and. But. Then again if, anybody knows anything about motors, you'd. Be Tesla. Wonderful. Anyone at SpaceX, knows anyone, over at Tesla. So. My personal bet I think. They'll go with electric motors but, I really have no idea it's just one of those things about the wait and see so a huge, amount of control will be done with the fins but, let's, not forget about the fact that the BFS, will for sure have, some huge, thrusters. To, help maneuver it too as a matter of fact I asked Elon all about this exact, thing in 2016. After we saw the first video renderings, of what the interplanetary, transportation. System would look like re-entering, Mars belly-first, and. Did that maneuver to go tail down. He. Thought never really. We. Must. Respond. Yes. Pretty. Huh. Ten, times cross attack Buster's. Besides. Those Finn wingy, things and, some, massive, control thrusters another. Key piece that will allow the BFS, to do a full-blown, belly, flop through the atmosphere, is the, heat shield the, Space Shuttle used over. 24,000. Individual, and unique silica, tiles to cover the belly of the shuttle the, size of the wings and the amount of lift the shuttle needed to achieve in the upper atmosphere was, largely due to making sure the shuttle didn't overheat the silica tiles. Overwhelming. Them would transfer, the heat from the tiles, to the fuselage, of the orbiter. That's. A really bad thing the BFS on the other hand will use something very similar, to what SpaceX, uses on their dragon, capsules this, is an ablative material, known as pica X or if, you don't like acronyms, and prefer cool sounding words phenolic. Impregnated, carbon. Ablator. Ablative. Heat shields are the ones that purposefully, flake off material as it heats up which, then takes some of the heat with it SpaceX, has had great luck with the heat shields on their Dragon capsule and although, I don't think they've actually reused, a heat shield they did say they could probably reuse heat shield about ten times, before needing to be refurbished and SpaceX. Continues. To advance their pica-x and they, hope to get to the point where it can be used a hundred times, before.

Needing, To be replaced pica-x can handle much higher temperatures, than the shuttle tiles which, is necessary. When trying to re-enter from Mars or the moon not. To mention with, a really, steep reentry profile one that tries to slow down as quickly as possible the heat shield will be pushed to the limits so if, the BFS, will have an ablative heat shield that, needs to be replaced. Isn't. That an even worse refurbishment, process than the Space Shuttle which had thousands. And thousands. Of hours of checks to ensure, that their tiles were okay for every, single reef light well when it comes to mounting the heat shield to the BFS, according, to Elon the heat shield place will be mounted, directly to, the primary tank wall that's, the most massive ficient way to go don't. Want to build a box in a box unlike, the space shuttle a good amount of the fuselage, is uniform, just a giant nine, meter tube so. There could be some really common plates that are easy to, replace, and manufacture. But as the nose tapers, or where there's unique areas like the fins I'm sure, there will need to be more specialized, heat shields in those areas and just like that ugly, little wannabe BFS, I made in Kerbal space program there's. A common, radiator, I mounted, to the belly of the beast they. Were all the same and easy to pop on it. Should be something like this. Ish. Just, like how making hundreds. Of Merlin engines is cheaper than building dozens. Of rocket engines from a manufacturing, standpoint having. A common, heat shield plate that's easily, mountable and replaceable. Should. Help alleviate some of the headaches the Space Shuttle experienced, in its refurbishment, process not, to mention the Space Shuttle tiles were extremely, fragile they. Could follow if you just looked at them wrong and it, was very, important, to make sure that every, single one was literally perfect, before each flight a more, traditional heat, shield is a lot, more resilient, in the sense okay now I hear, you but beyond the fact that it does look like the BFS is beginning to evolve more, and more into the space shuttle the, way it performs reentry is completely. Different, using, different, techniques different technologies, different materials, and an entirely, different reentry. Profile I think. It's really unfair to say it's similar to the space shuttle then I know the, fins on the back do make it look like Tintin's, rocket or the Planet, Express ship, from Futurama but, don't, forget those fins are also the, landing legs and this, in my opinion makes it look more like the TWA, moon liner originally. Featured at Disneyland Tomorrowland, in 1955. I think it's clever to take advantage of the landing gear and make it function as a control surface that's, something I wish was technically, possible on the Falcon 9's landing legs because, it would be super cool but.

Then Again I think they're, doing quite fine with the system as it is like, I mentioned about my last video about the VFR it is, still evolving, but I think it's getting closer and closer to its final configuration, now. They're starting to make some hardware it's, time they start putting it to the test if, all goes well we'll. Start seeing those first little test hops by the end of 2019. That'll, be amazing so. What do you think do, you think that BFS, is just a new Space Shuttle or, do you think it's something entirely. Different let. Me know if you have any other questions about the VFR, or BFS. Or anything. Spaceflight, related and comments below I will humor. Thank you to my patreon, supporters for helping me be able to go out to California and cover this event and all, the other events that I attend as well it's, only possible thanks to my patreon supporters so, if you want access to our exclusive subreddit, or our exclusive discord channel head, on over to patreon comm, slash, everyday astronaut thank, you and now a huge, shout out to lucas from k news for those amazing, animations. He honestly makes some of my favorite, YouTube videos so if you're not subscribed to him be, sure and check out his channel and while you're on the old internet head, on over to my web store I've got a ton of new shirts hats, prints. Of rocket launches mugs lots. Of other fun stuff head, on over to every day astronaut comm, slash, shop thanks everybody that does it for me I'm Tim, Dodd the everyday astronaut, bringing space down to earth for everyday people.

2018-10-13 23:16

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I'm probably too biased to say this but it's really a great episode! I'm so curious to know what kind of a motor they will develop. They surely need some kind of integrated solution because mounting the engines as I did on the BFS is not so optimal xD (but easier to showcase). They also need some kind of redundancy in case something fails so it would make sense to have many weaks motors rather than one strong. Then you have to think about cooling and powering them and what not. Oh boy, that will be interesting!

+Justin White Really looks like you aren't a fan of Elon Musk?

The Space Shuttle did maneuver during reentry and was not just a brick. https://youtu.be/PAaMuTRGP6k?t=3300 It banked from one side to the other like a skier going down a hill to control its decent. What you do at hypersonic speeds is different from what you do while gliding. You essentially deform the so called bow shock that compresses the air in front to achieve a certain motion of the vehicle. You also can't generalize "many weak motors are not going to work" without knowing what kind of motors are used and how the transmission works. This part is not science but engineering so the only limit is your own imagination and will to figure it out. You can of course give up and say it's impossible (for you) but that doesn't stop someone else to do it.

Many weak motors are not going to work It would only take one to jam the make all the rest useless in that group. It's got to be one and one back up or two and two backups for each. Then there is space and weight to consider. But the space shuttle fell like a brick with no moving parts move in reentry because the 2,300+ degrees of reentry is a nightmare for any moving parts moving at that time. 1 tenth of a degree of movement in the wrong direction during reentry and you will be toasted. There will be no time to correct anything at 2,300+ degrees. Then air breaks only work in the air. Reentry is gravity with a LOT of heat. It is truly a free fall with no way of really controlling it until you pass through. The facts of science will not change no matter how much money you throw at it.

And you make excellent animations

im not an expert, but maybe they can have a big Motor circuit around the cirumference of the bfs, which then is cooled by the fueltanks and the airbreaks just control whenever they grip into the motorcircuit.

Crazy strong redundant actuators indeed! I'm thinking pneumatic/hydraulic electrically controlled systems pressurised possibly using existing fuel pumps diverted/clutched to reduce weight as the engines seem to be offline whilst the main braking force would be required.

Use the motor off of a model x

BFR renamed to NGH. Never goin happen

I think the hinge on the braking fins will have multiple sections like a door hinge. One of the hinges on my house doors has five sections, three attached to the door post and two attached to the door. Then you can distribute the motors and forces.

The animations are really nice!

Billets of PICA-X are made in an oven, so I don't believe it would work as a spray on. They can be made quite a bit larger than Shuttle tiles though.

On the picaX, is it going to use 'tiles', or is the final layer that is exposed to the atmosphere going to be sprayed on? Can PicaX work as a spray on?

i missed the background music:(


This was not planned though! Very "weaks" -grammar- spelling! xD

Shafay Asghar he helped create the models for this video. His logo was on the BFR model for that reason

wow you got pinned

The shuttle used its body flap (near the engines) to control its pitch during reentry, so not much different than the BFS at high Mach numbers. Totally different landing though.

The future looks beautiful

motors + endless screw

Its called “Elevons” and most delta wing planes use them. Elevators on each wing allow them to be used as ailerons.

I’m going to make this simple. Elon musk is a genius, whatever it takes to make BFR Work he will do it no matter what it takes. And you can take that to the bank and get interest on it!

Dude ho 229

I'd be interested in knowing what the relationship, if any, is between the BFR design and the Delta Clipper/DC -Y design. They're pretty close in their re-entry profile.

The problem with electric motors is that you have to power them. Taking energy on a spaceship is VERY expensive. You can put a small battery in some small computer to have it keep the time while turned off. But taking batteries that will power the fins while falling back to earth is really expensive. So the primary concern for how to drive the fins will be how to store the energy to make them operate.

Prediction: BFS will not be round when it is complete.

I'm sad we don't have the 300 ton payload of the ITS anymore. Maybe next model!

Tim, Can you do a throwback vid and do an old space shuttle webcast replay like its live?

"So instead of going to another indoor skydiving place", please say you went skydiving for real! "I went to KSP" Oh well, Ksp is cool to, * Should have gone real skydiving though*

The mig, thanks for adding that! P.S. thanks soviet union for one good thing, helping space come a long way so as to make Tim have to make more videos

The space shuttle was built for launching and retrieving military satellites, so no, the BFS isn't a new space shuttle. The only similarity is they are both reusable crewed vehicles.

I fuckin Love The B2 Bomber. So cool. Old Nazi Technology, Re- engineered.

Just one word - Hyperloop. LOL, you people are nuts.

What is the name of this game looks like you can be an aerospace engineer by just doing drag and drop? LOL

Brilliant Episode Tim. You’re so good at explaining how stuff works, it reminds me of Kevin McCloud from Grand Designs when he does his little explanation demonstrations. Keep going mate, you’re doing a great job!

more bs for the programmed and indoctrinated masses.

Do you guys even realize, that you are indoctrinated by "NASA is a lie!!"-Youtube-Videos?

Good work! As usual, great video ;) Thanks!

I'd say BFS is what the Shuttle would have been if it were designed with today's technology.

That is not a photo that was a drawing. Moving parts and the heat of reentry is a very bad combo. Then there is still the problem of everything Musky says is not based on facts. Remember when he said in 2018 he would be sending two people to the moon and start sending samples to mars. Or he would build rollercoasters in his factories so people could have fun. But they now work in a tent? This is the man that tried to sell flamethrower with a tagline of "A good way to liven up any party." When NASA did press converses they had sciences and engineers on the panel to answer the question. When SpaceX dose one we get one guy that has shown us from the past that truth and facts are not his forte. When people tilt there heads it is a sigh, that they are making things up along with the eyes looking up. A dead giveaway that children do to an extream and lesses as we get older, but is always there.

lol thats not gliding as my good friend woody would say "thats falling with style"

they're gonna need a much better heatshield than what they have now. replacement after a hundred flights is not viable.

With or without FAR? (In KSP)

Just a wee point, albeit worth noting, I feel. Youtubers are full of catch phrases, but I have to admit, your "...I'm Tim Dodd, the Everyday Astronaut. Bringing Space down to Earth for everyday people", takes the biscuit. That was a good creative day when you thought of that one.

They really shouldn't need crazy heat shielding like the shuttle did. The 'belly flop' trajectory allows them to do a far more aggressive initial reentry burn and scrub most of their speed off that way. If the propulsive landing were not so frowned upon for now, the Dragon capsule would be completely reusable if it wasn't forced to land in salt water. Personally, I am more worried about redundancy with the design. What happens if one of those airbrakes fail?

They should name the first bfr “falling with style”


A more detailed look at the BFB? We hardly ever hear about the booster it's self.

BFS = Beast from Spacex

Good video

Elon Musk is Zefram Cochran, only much much cooler.

I wish it would but i dont belive that this will ever fly. Hope to be proofen wrong :-)

At hypersonic speeds lift and drag are generated by the same mechanism, impact of gas on the vehicle body (pressure). A lifting trajectory just angles the vehicle enough such that some of the pressure force counteracts gravity in the vehicle frame. A purely ballistic trajectory just uses the pressure to counteract velocity (drag only). Crew vehicles never fly purely ballistic trajectory because of the incredibly high g forces and heat loads. BFS is definitely doing some lifting. The B-2 and the space shuttle use completely different kinds of aerodynamics to fly.

It’s nothing to the space shuttle, it is completely unique! Would be cool if it could get to orbit (maybe empty or minimal payload) with out the booster

u need them fibers used in battletech lab made mussles that work when u put power throgh it

The Space Shuttle was officially an orbiter, other present day spacecrafts are just capsules. BFS is going to be the first true spaceship.

To be fair, it's not meant to fly, it's mention to fall in style

So... why not just put that new heat coating on the shuttle? Combined with it's gentler reentry profile due to the original intent to reduce the stress on the heating tiles, the new coating would be stressed even less, turnaround time would be faster than the original shuttle. Also, can you talk about X20 active cooling method and if it would be a viable option today, maybe as an augment to ablative shielding even if not stand alone?

Makes sense, I had forgotten all about landing on the moon and mars. For some reason was thinking point to point here on earth where they already have prepared runways! Thanks for the reply! The X20 Dynasoar relied on exotic materials (which naturally has an expense component to it): "The framework of the craft was to be made from the Rene 41 nickel super alloy, as were the upper surface panels. The bottom surface was to be made from molybdenum sheets placed over insulated René 41, while the nose-cone was to be made from graphite with zirconia rods" Bearings were required to operate at the same environment as the primary structure so were made of Titanium Carbide Primary structures and bearings were rated to 1,800f and insulated from the leading edges and skin panels which were rated to 3,000f, the nose cone was rated to 4,500f I figured if something was designed well to withstand extreme reentry temperatures on it's own (even at a higher initial cost) then you could potentially supplement this with an ablative coating that also theoretically works on it's own, providing an extra measure of safety if one of the other unexpectedly fails to perform

The space shuttle required a 3 mile long runway. That’s not gonna work on the moon or Mars that the main reason

:D Your face after you spell out PICA is perfect and priceless


What would we be able to do if the world's space agencies pooled their resources together under one central authority? Not saying whether we should, more like what we can do.

I’m honestly I miss the feeling of Tim making the videos himself, plz cut out the overview in the beginning. I guess I will never get the nostalgia of his first videos :(

Wait what?! I still make the videos myself. The overviews have ALWAYS been part of the videos. What’s different? No space suit? That’s the only substantial difference other than no music all the time and maybe a touch less silly. I’m all ears my friend.

You should try to do the hiad in ksp since we now have inflatable heat sheilds

This program will go the way of the concorde.

Why do the ships of the future looking like the rocket ships of the 50s?

My problem with the Space Shuttle were the hugely expensive and extremely delicate refractory tiles! What are SpaceX going to do differently in this regard??

+Everyday Astronaut Or maybe watch more than 10:16. That's when I stopped watching and started typing. I get ants in my pants after about ten minutes of almost anything. ADHD? Or maybe I don't get enough pseudoephedrine in my diet. Anyway, thanks for all the effort you put into your videos and live coverages. Space is great.

Maybe watch the video before commenting

Do you know falcon9 and ElonMusk means 33 in numerology?

I'm an aerospace engineer who's been working on the space program for decades. Also, I have religiously followed the industry through general media since I was in high school and then both general and professional industry media since I was in college. So, I know good aerospace jounalism when I see it. From what I have seen so far your work is excellent. It's the right blend of enthusiasm and technical knowledge mixed with new media savy. I'll happily recommend your site to any person who wants to have a more detailed understanding of what SpaceX is up to than is delivered by the headline news. I much hope you expand your topics to include all other manned and unmanned space system developments.

Servomotors on the fins. Lag screw type.

I’m glad somebody is being more critical of this new design.

couldn't they use pneumatics.would be a lot less weight than taking all that hydro fluid to space.

The 'spoilerons' on most modern commercial aircraft use drag to counter the adverse yaw caused by the ailerons when leaning to the side to perform a banked turn. They are most certainly actively controlled.

How about spray on pica-x? If the ablative material gets to thin, just spray it on!

Also, if you expect to change all the heat shield every time, you eliminate the entire evaluation step of used tiles.

One and only thing that NASA ever sent to " Space " ( with help of Hollywood ) is ........ - your imagination. Space X is total joke ...... Sorry for crushing your illusions .....

Only thing I hate about this new design is the heat shield. I knew it was coming, but even with 10 reuses (that will never happen with human rated ships), that throws quick turn around out the window. #SpaceShuttleProblems

The BFS is what the Space Shuttle wishes it could have been. The shuttle was a low Earth orbiter, BFS is to be an interplanetary vehicle. The shuttle requires a runway within glide range, the BFS lands vertically and I wouldn't be surprised to see one tested on a barge landing. Add on in-flight and in-situ refueling being integrated into the design as possibilities from the start and it becomes a kind of capable the shuttle could only dream of. It'll be an interesting thing to follow, for sure.

Err. When did it ever not have a heat shield all over the bottom?

Hi Tim, I'd also like to point out that while there were a total of 6 space shuttles, I imagine Elon Musk plans on having a much larger number of Big Falcon Spaceships. This, *combined* with the more uniform surface of the heat shield, will decrease manufacturing costs substantially for the heat shield.

Can somebody make a video about how many views youtubers get just from rehashing SpaceX bullshit?

I don't. Call the video Dynamic drag control in relation to SpaceX's BFR then, but nah its always gotta be SpaceX this, BFR that + something catchy. Just trying to use a catchy comment to get response, sounds familiar? Worked too, kinda lame isnt it? I do appreciate your research, its one of the reasons I watch your videos. I think you might be misreading your audience, most of us just want cold hard facts and new information. Spend your time on that instead of clickbait titles, thumbnails and overly flashy editing, it looks awesome and all, but I myself don't watch these videos for that reason. Space and jet engine audience on Youtube is a different animal alltogether, you cant take cues from YouTubers in totally different niches. Thats my 2 cents.

You think the two weeks it took to research the history on dynamic drag control is rehashed SpaceX content?... Sorry for trying to inform.

4:00 Paragliders are aircraft that also use this system not only to turn but also to go up and down.

i feel spaceX is making the same mistakes as nasa did in the 80s

What if one of those "Air brakes" get stuck or get ripped out all together ? This new "design" does not look very stable. It'd be hell of a ride if you are inside and you make it to the ground in one piece

Хей, есть ли здесь люди из Рашки?

You're good at landing a rocket! Great episode! I hope Elon can realize his dreams.

I could be wrong, but I have never once read or heard that it was intended to land as the shuttle did... Sooo

Read the comments of my last video

Hi great work Tim… I have a question for you. Will the Hello Moon BFS be a SSO rocket? (Single Stage to Orbit)

13:00 I would say electric motors and screw jacks acting on deployable support struts. It may be possible to deploy support struts that that can vary their length for the re-entry phase (Think of the bracing on the wings of early monoplanes such as those Italian racing seaplanes and the forerunners of the Spitfire). The struts would act as braces supporting the 'fins' at say half span so as to relieve a large part of the torsion load on the hinges. They could be lengthened or shortened with screw jacks or maybe 'elbow joints', so altering the angles of the 'fins'. They are part of a drag-making system so their presence might not be a big headache....just a thought....

All about Terminal Velocity! Large surface area and low weight. They could use parachutes, Balloons, to increase surface area. Enterprise Astronauts might have been able to Baile Out if they had parachutes.

I didn’t notice how similar they look like

Lets all be honest... We know bfr stands for big frickin rocket right?

Thats shirt, I need it for my son. but $36 ???

3:40 the horten ho229 too

I think elon knows more about spaceships than some people from internet

As an engineer, i get headaches thinking of an ablative hetshield and giant moving airbrakes. On the other hand its Elon so they'll probably figure it out anyway... I wouldnt be surprised if they change the design again due to difficulties in that system ;)

Ur channel is dope

Your launch and then fall back to earth is completely different to a real return from space. For starters, they reenter at thosuands of km/h, thats why they all need heat shields...So far from my limited memory, there has never been a space vehicle that simply "falls" from space... How exactly will the BFS slow down to almost niothing and then let it fall back to earth ?

If a Hopeless Diamond can fly than so can the BFS. It's the magic of fly by wire technology. Technology so sophisticated that even a brick can fly.

The BFR kinda looks like a Tom Swift Rocketship now...

nice. I love that watching your livestreams doesn't spoil your videos. keep it up. :)

SpaceX should test their shuttles and rockets into KSP, there is no other way

is there any info on butt-to-butt refueling? BTW your channel is amazing!!!

More empirical evidence in favor of the new BFS design...in addition to SpaceX's computer modeling...and Tim's excellent Kerbal modeling...I had two successful flights of my Estes-powered (first flight: C6-3; 2nd flight: D12-5) BFS model this morning! FWIW...

On reentry would the ablative material hit the fins and damage them similar to what destroyed Columbia?

If you are going to say the Japanese guy’s name a lot more for the next 5 years we should try to get closer to the actual pronunciation. Ma e za wa They don’t combine sounds But if you insist to combine then say ‘my-zawa’ or better ‘ma-eh-zawa’ You learned metric, which is really hard, I’m sure you can do this.

I think SpaceX is a Prelude to the truly safest mode of space travel. Magnetic Fielding using compressed rotating Mercury. And that again is only the first step. When it becomes proven to the world and used for several endeavors, space and do otherwise, means of propulsion Fall by the wayside for the most part anyway

As Max Faget ...the designer of America's first three ships ...was asked about the shuttle design .... He stated it was the worst of two worlds ... And I believe he was right .... Airplanes don't fly in space and space ships don't or shouldn't have wings ...look at what happened to Columbia ....the STS was a Nixon administration compromise that shouldn't have happened .... Until we can get a propulsion system that will allow single stage to orbit and landing we will need to stick with capsules ....just my opinion

"I'M A FALCON 9!" I died.

Its not meant to fly like an airplane... that is why it will not fly like an airplane

Will the new design of BFS have an SSTO capability? And by SSTO I mean single stage to Earth orbit.

OK------- Have you ever sat on a 3 legged milking or foot stool? 3 legged stools tip over extremely easily. Fact is you have to keep the center of force close to the center to keep them from tipping over. Yes they are stable in 3 directions but they are very unstable in the 3 directions between the legs. Reality tells me that Elon is going to have to add a 4th leg to replace the single center landing leg/fin. Much like modern fighters. Hopefully before one of the BFS's topple over and is destroyed.

My mom dosent believe in the moon landing! What do I do? Whenever I try to talk to her she says. *I dont care what you say* She does believe in the ISS, and always says *why cant the shuttle go to the moon* . I say it wasn't designed to, but she says what she always does!

You can't win an argument if the other person won't argue. So you'll need to trick her into arguing. To do this start asking her why it is fake and asking her to proof her claims. The main why you'll win is by explaining to her the technology to fake it didn't exist back then.

SpaceX's innovation rate just proves that NASA is long past its expiration date. NASA is bloated and run like you would imagine government bureaucrats and unions running anything. Its all "other people's money" to NASA and it shows. Tragedy of the commons indeed.

landed it next to R&D


Glad you used my Futurama image:)

I'm thinking it's the shuttle as it should have been


20 minutes to say that it has a symmetrical airfoil...

Re ignite the space race with the private companies. Let’s keep pushing the realm of possibility!

The b2,s design and arbrakes come from the Nazi: Horten 229

Your channel is a lot of fun dude, I appreciate your video game illustration most of all because it really brought home the difficulties of landing a rocket.

BFS = Bicameral Ferrying Spacecraft It is in two parts, the main passenger/cargo section and the primary rocket engine Its primary function is to ferry people and stuff to space and home. It is a spacecraft.

They should make a room on a elevator that sinks into the fuel tank as it empties

I remember just a few years ago when we all thought SpaceX was a joke

Ksp isn't accurate enough for simulating pitch and yaw with airbrakes becuase if you take the airbrakes away the majority of stock vessels have reaction wheels that move the vehicle already so how much of the effect is from the reaction wheel vs the airbrakes this vehicle was too light to prove this you need a much heavier vehicle so the reaction wheel has little to no effect

+Everyday Astronaut your right

Perhaps you missed the part where I showed that I turned the reaction wheel off completely so we only used aerodynamics

oh, that's rad

9:00 its all clear now... he is god... he is our lord and savior

what if u went on the bfs? more like an bfg?

Agreed! too many people and agencies give up, we get nowhere as a result. People like Elon, are innovators, that can change a society, as a result of their work and business.

The BFS is based on a similar original premise as the shuttle, but it has the benefit of years more experience and better technology to make it a unique and different vessel

I don't like the look of it ONE BIT!

i think theyre ugly &unnecessary/ he needs to go back to the BFR (secondary design)

need a bigger shuttle to a bigger ship ;)

It works in the image on the title. Looks like those feeds they give us a minute or two after the launch or a photo of a satellite in space

To me, dropping through the atmosphere , semi gliding and dropping unpowered is better. I would not like depending on my slow down process based on a power system that can fail. I know it MUST be done on airless moons, but why not save the power and fuel by using the thick atmosphere for braking?

I'm a big fan of SpaceX but I just don't see how this can work, especially at lunar return speeds.

Hydraulics are slow? Hydraulics can have extreme speed and power. Just look at any modern fighter with flying tails, like the F-22 or F-35

True, but it doesn't always work scaled up.

Am I retarded if I find this quite intuitive? Since most geniuses do not..

LOL man at the "I'm a falcon 9!" cheering I almost laughed me off the chair; thank you sir.

Fares Sdiri So does basically the start of rocketry, lol.

Tried re-entry with this in KSP. God it sucks.

13:25 linear actuators

Those fins will burn like wood.

Sooo is Peca-X similar to starlight

It is too early to judge now , your video is a total waste of time

Are those real glasses? If so they have an epic anti reflex coating.

I actually took the lenses out of them and wear contacts after people complained too much about the glare. The things I do for the internet

I don't understand trying to actuate those fins, er, airbrakes at their root. Due to the massive control moment disparity between the root and the radial center of pressure, it seems like it would be more structurally and mechanically efficient to have pistons with airfoil profiles that attach closer to the fins' tips.

I don't care how close it is to the space shuttle, if it gets us to Mars

Space exist?

Thins thing wont be made in our lifetimes. sry.

They already have the tooling and the engines for it... my monies on seeing one fly in 5 years

It’s closer to the original shuttle designs before the Air Force got involved and demanded massive maneuverability during reentry.

Bff = best friends forever

Elon Musk = Publicity stunt.

"Big Falcon..." Riiiiight. lol

What's this guy yapping about 'reentry'...?...this thing is vaporware, nothing more...let's wait and see what actually materializes from all this big talk...

Bro you don't know s***

Hey Rosario! Would love to know what you think I got wrong! Comments like this don’t offer much useful feedback

It looks like you have sas on for your whole descent and landing?

Yes. Not RCS though. The SAS is what controls the airbrakes which hold the orientation

So do I understand correctly that the BFS will not land using wheels on a runway like the Space Shuttle? Well, I guess if this thing goes to Mars there wouldn't be a prepared runway so maybe I see why this is necessary. I just tend to think landing the thing on its bottom or engine side would have to be far and away the most challenging part of the whole endeavor. I imagine it easily tipping over when its pitch or yaw or whatever exceeds a certain point where gravity takes hold and the whole thing comes crashing down on the Martian surface or Earth's surface for that matter. I'd love some feedback on this. THanks!

Nice animation!

What about a whole video about you making silly contraptions in KSP? Also, there is a mod where the Kerbol System is replaced by ours.

7:18 what's keeping that rocket from tipping over to the back side? Opposite the fins?

IRL it’ll use those heavy duty gas thrusters to maintain orientation, also, I probably won’t ever do a maneuver like this, besides maybe in testing

3:37 where's the air coming from to shake that right "wing" so violently (imo)? Being so high above the surface, the drag from air should very virtually noexistant. If anything, once closer to the surface, it would appear that, that wing would break/bend apart due to the air pressure! Am I the only one who noticed that wing? There's something wrong with that picture.

+Everyday Astronaut I hope its the control motor! Lol. Being that an airplane wing is a bad example to use for the air resistance and atmosphere is completely different, virtually non existent that is, than the location presented during that time frame.

I think it’s just the fact that it’s out on a long “arm” and you’re seeing it shake and jitter during movement just like how an airplane wing is pretty bouncy. But it’s only truly reacting to the control motor that’s moving (and not perfectly)

Arg. Simulator. Not game.

How does the BFS stack up to the X-37B?

Hmmm, let see The space shuttle was nicknamed the “giant brick” for its purposely built - brick like state in which it would descend. The shuttle did not “fly” back to earth, it barely fell by gliding like a paper (a paper plane made out of bricks) plane back to earth. The Soyuz capsule is essentially a free falling bullet back to earth with barely any aerodynamic qualities. I absolutely love what Elon has done for spacex and I recognize the groundbreaking, daré I say historic work the company is currently involved in, yet I fail to see how the BFR is groundbreaking in its reentry configuration.

Cant wait to see how they fake it.

So will you go down to Florida or Brownsville when one launches (or lands) to see for yourself? Or are you just going to sit there and produce no evidence yourself. Hate to say it here friend, but the proof of burden is on you to disprove they fake anything. Go down when they’re launching and show a rocket not going to space and not coming down. Meet me down there. I’ve seen a dozen with my own eyes.

You may have discovered something about the next iteration of the design. You said that you needed to exaggerate the control authority of the speed brakes to get it to fly like a skydiver. Does this mean the brakes would need to be impossibly large to control entry of a real BFS? Elon talked about oversized thrusters on the previous design which did not use the brakes. Do you think the real BFS will use the big thrusters as its primary means of control and use the brakes to save a little thruster fuel? Would that even make sense? What would the brakes weigh and how much extra thruster fuel would you need to replace them? Would a landing leg and extra thruster fuel outweigh the brakes, especially considering that you seem to have discovered the brakes would need to be larger than the ones in your simulation? What would your simulated model look like if nearly all of the re-entry was controlled by the brakes alone (how big would the brakes be relative to the rocket)? This simulation is very interesting in terms of its implications for the real rocket.

If anyone can do it it's Musk

Stay paused at 14:11 hehehehehehe

The bfs hasn't been made yet so it will doubtlessly change so criticising it on pictures from animations is pretty stupid.

So how did the Tesla car that they launched into "space" not have its tires pop?

There’s only 14.7 psi of difference between sea level and space (0 psi), remove 14.7 psi before launch and you’re at normal operating range in space. I did a whole video on this already. “Can a car survive space”

BFR have small wings

yeah, the BIG FU***** ROCKET

OR BIG FU***** Skydiver

If a fin brakes = game over?

Elon musk owns Tesla..

Still not sold on the design of having the broadside of the craft used as a massive airbrake to bleed off velocity upon re-entry. What's to prevent the craft from going into a tumble once its oriented broadside on? Sure you can skip a rock across a body of water, but that's flat surface to flat surface. Try toss a stick vertically across the same flat surface and it tumbles.


Love your channel. Will try to be a patron one day. You do us semi-technical lay people a huge benefit. A couple of things I would like to ask Elon: Will the BFS speedbrake arrangement allow for some or any cross-range control? If the crew/passenger orientation is reclined for vertical launch like all other vertical launch systems , will the screaming belly flop reentry likely cause GLOC since everyone would be in a more upright position relative reentry deceleration forces?

the moment he used ksp , Ei= 'ed subscribed

Fall? More like fail, this is just a scheme more wool over the hypnotized public’s eyes

Sorry, two adverts interrupting every video... Lost me as a viewer

I’m sorry to hear that. I just want to help you understand that this is my full time job, it takes me 40-80 hours to make a video like this. Television used to show you 8 minutes of ads for 22 minutes of programming. This shows you what, 1 minute for 30? I’m sorry to say you’re going to have to get used to it as the platform changes and people have careers here.

It would depend on how lightweight the heat shield is, it has to be carried around as an extra mass on flights past LEO. It also depends on refueling, many refueling launches (like 6 or 7) are expensive and put heavy use on the tanker. A second (preferably LOX/LH2-burning) stage is also expensive and probably not reusable, but only one upper stage per space mission for LEO insertion of a fully fueled BFS is needed (therefore no refueling launches, probably no tanker ever, too).

Vaporware? The components have been made, all that remains is assembly. The only thing they haven't shown yet is the motors for the fins but one missing part is hardly a reason to call it 'vaporware'.

The concept is pretty simple, it's just aerobraking

Nice video but please play SFS (Spaceflight Simulator)

Big Friggen SCAM!

Okay, but you forgot one thing, however; the BFS would also have to slow down from orbital velocity. I mean, this KBS model tested the concept you were trying to illustrate, but just barely. The BFS might be like a skydiver if a skydiver had to shed 17.0 km/s going near horizontal in the upper atmosphere before falling in a more vertical trajectory. Your model doesn’t actually work like the BFS in any capacity other than illustrating that air moving over a variable geometry, or “control” surface can alter the direction of the force acting on that surface.

Perhaps watch more of the video. We did the reentry burn from orbit. We only remove 1% of orbital velocity to lower our perigee to 0km (just like the space shuttle) and we scrubbed off speed through the upper atmosphere exactly like BFS will.

SAS still enabled though, which would hold you steady. But other than that great video

Yes, that was the point. Not the reaction wheels (which hold steady), we wanted SAS to control the airbrakes to hold us steady and adjust our orientation just like how a computer will control reentry for BFS

How many Gs of deacceleration will the crew experience on re entry?

B- Big F- -Fuckin- Falcon S- Spaceship Aw man someone beat me to it

I'm familiar with the concept. Shielding that much surface area will require a lot of added weight and articulating the not-wings under load will require a lot of power and likely quite a bit more structure than shown. Shielding the hings on the not-wings will also be a challenge. SpaceX has lots of talented engineers but I will be stunned if the BFS flies and reenters in anything like the latest configuration shown.

Nay sayers!

I think they got some inspiration from the Space Shuttle, using a 'belly flop' maneuver to bleed off speed regardless of the actual profile is something that really it pioneered. However, to call the BFS a Space Shuttle would be about like calling an SUV a 'truck with a camper shell'. There's some inspiration there, but it's not the same thing.

5:00 minutes KSP stuff (i wanted my girlfriend to understand)

atmosphere too thin.


space is fake, NASA is a fraud, and so is SpaceX, oh, it looks so fake it must be real, what a joke.

Silly Everyday Astronaut! Those aren't fins, those are _flippers._

Awesome startegy for fuel saving, but super risky. If any part fails a catastrophic and violent spin would be guaranteed.

Maybe just have multiple airbrakes at different angles, that can extend or retract, rather than single airbrakes that actuate. Forces needed in actuation at those speeds just seem impossible.

Its not supposed to glide ru retarded

Thanks dude, I wonder if any current applications endure similar torque

+Xerox Re https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slewing_drive

How can any motor drive resist those colossal forces? Super strong clutch/ratchet system?

- Public ask what kind of mechanism SpaceX will use in their BFR to move those huge fins. - SpaceX don't really have an idea, but they still let it out in public that they already have a mechanism, but they want to keep it secret. - People speculating like crazy in discussion boards and chats about the mechanism spaceX will use to move those fins. - SpaceX monitor the discussions and pick several of the most plausible ideas and test it.

Perhaps it's not necessary to move the control surfaces quickly. The interesting thing about the feathering of SpaceShipOne and Two is that it doesn't need any control: It is self-stabilizing, which also makes it safer than anything controlled by sensors and a computer program. If there are front and back fins on the BFS, they can be brought into a position where they form a V – the upper parts of a V, to be precise, like this: \=====/=>. This should cause a self-stabilizing effect.


Motors and locking mechanism

wait......how do you speed up the airbrakes 10 Xs?

If I had to rely on you or Elon Musk, your ego would take a beating......

+Everyday Astronaut ok thx. I figured as much. Ill get around to that after i manage to test the flea......

I modified the actual airbrake file

Maybe Elon Musk from SpaceX will ask that other Elon Musk from Tesla to borrow them some motors

Bank Angle?

i think it is BFR

You people believe anything. Chumps...

I love it that he uses ksp to present this

BFS? Big friendly snake?

Try space engineer.

The BFS seems to be "somewhat" like the STS, however, it is technologically far more advanced of the STS because of the re-entry pitch levels. These are both feasable with the attitude adjusters on the fuselage. The FBS seems to be my favorite choice. Also because of the user friendly controls between the two vehicles.

make it do both :)

the BFS does share one crutial thing with the shuttle, it's poorly described mission profile (Intercontinental ballistic first class flights, moon tourism, and even Mars deliveries) which each require radically different loadouts meaning it will inevitably be overly complex and inefficient, effectively negating the original Sea Dragon inspiration of using economy of scale to reduse cost per killogram

Are you able to do a video about the newly proposed "mini" bfr protoype that will be launched on the Falcon 9? Seems a very interesting concept and i wonder if they will potentially use it as an option to make a fully reusable falcon 9

How is it different? The Shuttle was graft and fraud to keep us from moving ahead into space. BFR is designed to do something other than guarantee lots of tax $$ going to key congressional districts.

you uses modded parts in ksp for a physics demonstration, IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?!

with the airbrake turning you forgot the HO-229

kNews.space Just think... Elon, his businesses and the amazing people that make his visions possible have done so many things that others (haters) have said we're impossible!!! Keep this in mind whenever you think; Hey, how they gonna do that!!! This question has been asked 1000 times and Elon always figures out the answer. It's what he does!

This is Extremely dangerous Running so close to 90° with extremely large control surfaces, under extreme pressure, that are actively ablating, when going past 90° the craft will pitch uncontrollably toward 180° and snap like a twig Even if all that goes well, a failure to relight the engines will turn the ship into an uncontrolled missile, still full of explosive fuels It's not an issue with their approach, transitioning from re-entry to vertical landing could probably work, but the current design will kill people

You can even see this in kerbal, despite its very soupy aerodynamics First flight snaps toward 180°, the second begins to but is arrested by the engines which have far more gimbal range than any real motor, and react instantly

Language adapts and changes. I think it's okay to call them fins or flippers. Flippers more accurate but but movable fins works too.

I believe elon said that the temperature expected would be in the eigth zeros magnitude order for the heat shield... If this would be a reusable spaceship im guessing it makes more sense to park them on the moon or build orbital tankers.... I cant wrap my head on them landing on earth multiple times x.x

Why its BFS and not BFR

The entire vehicle is the BFR. The upper stage is the big falcon spaceship and the booster is sometimes called the big falcon booster

It looks like a 70s cartoon rocket that got steroids and lifted for 30 years straight.

I think we can credit the space shuttle for pioneering that frontier but I can honestly see how evolving it farther will require more innovation which is what spaceX is bringing to the table. Still a long way to go before the everyday joe can hop aboard a planet express lol

There is some pretty legitimate science about “flying saucers” that dates back to world war 2 and if not for the shadow government in place currently we would see all kinds of hype about it. Did you know the Air Force still has an active experimental shuttle program. As soon as nasa closed the doors it pretty much fell into the hands of military to never be heard of again. N everyone think r.i.p. shuttle program but that is hardly the truth

I guess what I’m saying here is that it really isn’t “something” completely different it just “works” differently. The day boosters and aerodynamics literally have nothing at all to do with a craft is the day I’d say it’s something completely different but that’s sci-fi for as long as it takes for someone genius to introduce anti-gravity to the public... I’m let’s be honest it is pretty arrogant to assume nobody(military) hasn’t ever thought about that

Is there a craft download I wanna play around with the one you made

I'm curious how it would perform as a plane. Obviously it doesn't have ideal controls for that and going int a negative angle of attack would probably be disastrous, but I can see space-plane type flight being used to improve the entry trajectory control. Which, you know, might matter if you're trying to aim for a small target like a landing pad near a Mars base.

I think the idea is to make the BFS be as much as an airplane fuselage that you can drop from orbit and land vertically like the falcon does. The shuttle was a glider. Two completely different things. The BFS is more like a re-entry capsule than like a glider.

No way would SpaxeX build “another Space Shuttle”. I’m pretty sure those people regard the orbiter as “unsuccessful”. No, they’ve surely looked closely at every system (particularly the heat shield) as a lesson in “what could we do better?”

In the plans about moon landing and mars landing the BFS seems to use a similar mechanism like the Falcon 9 first stage ... but I really wonder how this will go in rough area ... actually the Falcon 9 first stage always landed on perfect smooth and hard (concrete) surfaces ... what is the solution for an unknown and rough ( and unstable ) surface like on moon or mars?

That is such a nice landing using airbreaks.

I know why! > cuZ space ain’t real!/ flat earth!/ firmament above us> we can’t get out!

Why not like new shepard

It would be awesome if you could make a podcast!


Already do one once a week! Look up Our Ludicrous Future wherever you listen to podcasts or here on YouTube

So a random dude on YT knows more than hundreds of engineers and designers? Okay

May I kindly suggest watching the video before comment

Everyday Astronaut tbh had no time to watch video completely

??? I’m just telling you what they’re doing... I absolutely do not know more. I’m educating you on the engineering they’re doing

11:26 imagine just hearing something outside and then at 11:35 your windows blows in and your eyes are screaming because the noise is so loud.

In the first attempt in KSP it didn't seem that you generated much heat on reentry. Were you high enough?

Has anyone estimated the g-forces the passengers will experience during re-entry?

I feel so sorry for that first space tourist on the BRS = he's not going to make it.

What makes me wonder though is how much G forces will there be when it's bleeding speed at such high rates. They must have considered that, right?

The huge difference between the BFR and the failure of the space shuttle is the BFR can fly between planets in our solar system and the shuttle could only go as far as high earth orbit. Lets also hope that BFR doesnt go around killing astronauts which it seemed so good at and costing so much of taxpayers money

I only found your channel about 2 days ago and watched a hand full of videos but so far I think it's awesome!! This video was really interesting to see for sure. Space x is doing some amazing things, "here comes the but" BUT! the only thing that I would be concerned with is usually space travel doesn't go 100% as planned as we all know. Having the back up of being able to glide and steer even if not very good! It's still an important feature to have I think Incase something were to malfunction. If a computer acts like they do whenever I get near one and the rockets don't work correctly, what is there to stop it from smashing into the ground after re-entry? Parachutes maybe but they would or could tear off plus it would still hit hard on landing. Idk the idea is really cool but some kind of gliding or flying should still be available to whoever is inside it at least as a secondary back up. I could be completely wrong to it's happened before! Thank for sharing the info on this!!

whats ur intro song name (edit) i want to be as smart as u are ,why dont u collab with smarterEveryday? ill be so cool and i am so addicted to this channel, ur channel is like a drug for

Obvious thing to reduce forces on fins would be to couple them mechanically , so forces on one fin could be offset by force from the other .

This is a new space ship because. This ship dont have wheels. A space shuttle has wheels you know that. This is the easyst way to land.

"Good morning, everyone. How's work today?" I'm officially dying. XD

Lack of technical updates? Wtf do you think this is ... a yearly iPhone update ?

yeah, it'll fall like a skydiver to mars

Thank you so much, I absolutely love fiction.

You have SAS on cheater.

Hundreds of aircraft use this. Not just the B2

I’m only familiar with a small handful that use a split aileron to control yaw. What else does?

Spoilerons as we call them in the aviation world.

Don’t spoilerons primarily function to reduce lift and not to endure yaw?

Craft file plz

17:25 they will fall off, if you just looked at them wrong.

Sorry I replied to the wrong comment

Nope. 1 good example is the Extra 330L I have as my pic, I have spoilerons mixed in with the rudder to greatly increase the yaw control. Allot of high aerobatic full scale aircraft are using this system to pull off harder, more gut turning aerobatics lol also gliders use built in air brakes to assist in yaw control. The Sr71 has the same system as the B2, other examples are the Y-B49, PUL-10, and various German/Swedish flying wings.

That anding in KSP was quite impressive

Why does it look like a new shepard by blue orgin

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks Elon's ship (I call it the BFSSS - Big Falcon StarShip System) will do, it only matters what it does. He's building an off-the-shelf plug-it-together-and-go system. According to inside sources, literally everything will be plug-n-play. Bad heat shield? 247 bolts. Pop it off and bolt on a new one. One of the quark-level identical 3D printed engines bad? Six bolts on each feed line, four bolts to hold it in and three electrical umbilical cables to unplug and you can swap it out in two hours even on Mars. His concepts work. Think about it; since perfecting the landing of the F-9 there hasn't been one landing failure. Granted, there were a few crashes in the beginning but once the process was perfected it will stay perfect barring any equipment failures, of course. Having covered, as a reporter, over a hundred shuttle launches at KSC, I can tell you that the STS was the most complicated thing ever made. Not from an engineering standpoint but from a paperwork standpoint. For every hour of actual work on it, there was six hours of paperwork; forms, documentation in triplicate, inspections, inspections of the inspections. I once saw a team of six people spend six hours soldering six wires together. An engineer, his assistant, a solderer and his assistant, a manager and an official inspector discussed each connection for an hour, decided how to do it (do we twist or solder side-by side?), rehearsed it, did it, checked it, measured voltages, inspected it and signed off on it after writing a lengthy description of how they made each connection. Space X would document the process with video, use two guys, one to solder and one to double check, measure the voltage and move on. On that job, SpaceX would save at lease five hours or thirty person-hours. NASA comes up with new ways to weld stuff together. SpaceX comes up with new ways to innovate. NASA says, "We have a tin can with a porta-potty, we can send four people to Mars." That's engineering driving your actions. "Let's send a hundred people at a time to Mars and build a city. All we have to do is figure out how." That's innovation driving your engineering. All that is why I say, when NASA finally does land on Mars, Elon will pull up at the Musk Spaceport in his Martian built Tesla Roadster, pick up the four smelly astronauts (porta-potty), drive them on the ElonWay Marspike to the Musk Hilton for a nice shower, and dinner at Marshorn Steakhouse or Marsnara Bread both just a short ride via pressurized tube from the Hilton; proudly displaying on their lawn their logo and corporate slogan via incandescent Mars worms spelling out, "Hilton - Come for a Day, Stay for Six Months, Because You Have To."

I like Elon I bought 3 space x t-shirts from space x

I think Elon smarter then NASA.

I know Elon is smarter then you.

+Everyday Astronaut nothing read your title wrong. Thought you wrote fail not fall.

That is a fact. What made you bring that up though?

Elon Musk is still walking around loose? I thought he was in a rubber room.

16:29 You downvoted the post!!

I noticed that!!!!! I must have accidentally clicked it when trying to screenshot or something

Maybe consider watching videos before you comment

They're called actuators not electric motors. A linear actuator is kind of like a hydraulic cylinder as it lengthens and contracts but it is driven by a splined stator; and driven by an electric motor not hydraulic fluid pressure.

The static load can be balanced by a “spring” system leaving only the force required to actually move it

The torque on the fins/air-brakes could be substantially reduced by moving the pivot point/ hinge from the base of the fin to slightly more towards the tip. Because the fin is basically a triangle shape, if you move the pivot point from the base you would be letting the atmosphere put pressure on the longer part of the triangle before the hinge so the pressure of the atmosphere would be doing a lot of the work for you. This is used on yachts/ ships rudders, it is what is called a balanced rudder. instead of hanging the rudder off the back of the rudder post you have approximately 20% of the rudder infront of the post and it makes a massive difference to the amount of force required to operate the rudder. https://browse.startpage.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fimage.slidesharecdn.com%2Fm-13propellerandrudder-130322070614-phpapp02%2F95%2Fpropeller-and-rudder-35-638.jpg%3Fcb%3D1363936038&sp=d11c1e9fb68475d4d74235c2cfcd2bdc&t=default

Every Day Astronaut Have you ever been in a rocket ship or have went to space???

I was just thinking about skydivers when you were talking about the way the B2 bomber yaws. Thing is, I was thinking about the (rectangular) parachute, not the drag on the skydiver. A friend told me how he tugs on each line to cause more drag on one side or the other (like, a partial collapse) in order to steer and on both, in order to brake as he's almost over the LZ. One time, he pushed his luck too far (by dragging both sides too long) and fully collapsed the chute because he didn't want to have to repeat the whole jump.. He got away with a broken heel bone.

PS. That's the first time I've seen KSP.. Hilarious!

The perforated paddles on the Falcon 9 do dynamic drag adjustment for re-entry control....

+Everyday Astronaut Thanks for the correction!

Those are basically tiny wings, or a hundred little fins. They don't produce drag (and increase or decrease drag) to induce yaw and pitch on the vehicle. They redirect lift just like a fin does. If the grid fins moved up and down (not rolled) they would perform as you are saying.

1:34 I don't see Space Shuttle, I see Planet Express Delivery Ship. Waiting to see if BFS will be crewed by a cyclops, a drunk robot and a delivery boy. As long as Elon does not hold his nest press release dressed in pyjamas, a lab coat and fuzzy slippers while declaring... "GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!"

The BFS isn't the next Space Shuttle until it has a hundred tons of down-mass capacity. Let me know when they have a cargo variant that can retrieve the Hubble, or at least send people up to service it, and then we'll talk about that sort of praise. :P Also, bonus points if they start painting them in recognition colors that are suspiciously similar to things in fandom. (Read as: Please, Elon, really paint one like the Galaxy Express rocket!)

An elitist caviar-left Space Shuttle indeed, you useful idiot.

It doesn't matter to me what the configuration is. If it goes into orbit, supplies the station, or assembles something in orbit, and then returns, it is basically that, a Space Shuttle.

The example of the B2 using air brakes to yaw is a good one.. but did you know that every modern airliner does the same ? Under 250 knots, say you are doing a left hand turn in an airbus 320.. one would expect the ailerons outboard of the flaps to do most of the work.. however, the left hand spoilers deploy for a few moments on top of the wing to spoil it, and cause it to dip.. while the outboard aileron on the right wing, lifts the wing, this makes for a tighter turn , especially in the pattern, or sharp maneuvers on final.. at high speeds only the ailerons are used, plus a center flaperon that controls roll.. keeps the turns wider and stresses off the air frame.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4j2ScNDw8o we can clearly see the 747 pilot doing this just after take off..spoilers deployed .. plus you can see that big flaperon doing it's thing too, between the spoilers.. airplane wings are a work of art.. as for PICA X .. they put together the worlds largest pica x manufacturing plant in 9 months.. , a feat Nasa would take 5 years to do.. says don Rasky .. they can develop, prototype mass produce, and research things with no NASA red tape or political interference.. plus no Lockheed martin, or boeing intentionally running up cost over runs, and ballooning budgets of the gov't run space era.. where initial cost quotes were a joke...f35 is great example of this.. as soon as lockheed got the contract they quadrupled the price of the thing.. standard practice.. Space X has no such luxury, so they innovate and keep costs down.. and they move ahead at amazing speed.. it's not only the tech that makes Space X and Blue Origin viable.. they blasted the old NASA , military culture out of the water.. it was so ossified and in efficient that NASA ground to a halt .. Rasky Expands on this .. thank goodness Space X came along when they did.. or the USA would be in Space limbo for another Generation like the Obama years.. Pica X .. game changer.. wonder what a 1 inch deep , square foot of the stuff weighs, and what kind of temps it can withstand.. Any way you can get yer hands on a sample of the stuff ? maybe test it out ?


Great episode, really impressive work! I hope they will integrate some kind of launch escape system because wow it doesn't look super safe knowing it's gonna be reused. Any chance Elon talked about an emergency rocket or some ejection seats? no one wants a new challenger

I don't see why SpaceX want high reusability of ablative shield tiles. I mean it's more material than construction. Making it cheaper and easily recycling may do the economical job even if you replace them each couple of flights. Ablative material is like fuel.

Hey Everyday Astronaut, I think the BFS is also looking like the Space Shuttle, but I think it has more of the looks of the Bell X-1 that Chuck Yeager flew in October 14, 1947 where he broke the Sound Barrier for the first time.

The B2 does not use split ailerons. They are called elevons. They are called that because the control surfaces are on the wing since there is technically no tail. For all practical explanations one set acts as elevators not brakes while the other is ailerons. Spoilers would be essentially brakes as it stalls the air around the wing.

+Everyday Astronaut let me look further. The book i had on it may have been incorrect. I was big on air warfare during both gulf wars. I may have something mis representing it but i do know elevons were the primary control surfaces for every flying wing I knew. And you are right the ailerons do split. I forgot about those on the A10. I built a model with them extended. It is in reference to the aileron portion of the control surfaces. My apologies. That is a control surface not used regularly in inventory of aircraft. Honestly though that creats more confusion as it still uses elevons in order to climb and dive. Beutiful use of multiple technologies but a hodepodge mess of terms. P.S. I live near an air guard base with A10s and have seen them up close at air shows and flying over my head.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceleron we might need to update this wiki then

Imagine if all the agency's work together and combine recourse s sure such a waste we would be on Mars and more

Its a bird! No a plane! No its the Big 'Falcon' Skydiver

Show us a single citation that says the Space Shuttle had 100 tons down-mass capability, or the mass of the HST. It came down almost empty. Show us that the BFR is packed with so many gimmicks and bells & whistles to satisfy NASA political constituencies that it costs a billion dollars per launch, and it'll be a "Space Shuttle". Show us a BFR that was designed to satisfy USAF design requirements for a single-orbital nuclear-warhead bomber, and it'll be a "Space Shuttle". Show us a BFR that 's had more money thrown at it to satisfy graft and it's re-flown after being demonstrated to be anything but cost-effective or safe, and it'll be a "Space Shuttle".

Fantastic video mate !

I have also been wondering about the strength required to move those find-breaks. What if they plan to just let the wind push them up into a position that will keep the craft falling in a particular orientation? Maybe they won't apply any torch until the vector thrusting rights it? Maybe they don't need strong hydraulics or electric motors then? I am personally more interested in the structural integrity of the hull, the interior + life support, and above all -- radiation and micrometeor shielding. It seems to me they are sorely underestimating radiation shielding. I would have probably added structural ridge lines down the exterior, slowly rotated the interior living space (for a light amount of gravity) and build the water treatment system under the floors (algae, LED lights) about two centimeters deep to double as radiation shielding. I'd use distillation as the final water treatment stage, putting freshwater in the ceilings or walls. The state rooms would have ceilings. A long passageway would go through the center. Common area would be a long passageway circling with tables to pull down from the walls, otherwise a track for running or walking.. Shared bathrooms with earth-like flushing toilets.

Please cure me from this addiction of space and this channel

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