Reality Lab Lectures: Thomas Furness - "My Attempts to Save The World"
So. This, this, is the first, in our amazing kind. Of series of lectures, as, part of a comparative to things one of in, the in our photography. Lab which, is a VR a our lab here. And and the, other, other part is also for. Students as a Dr Kaplan which. We have just very last week, so. Welcome. Everyone. I'm. Here. Today. Here. So. I'm. Super. Excited to introduce Talon stompernet. To. Give our first lecture I can't imagine anyone who, would be a, better. Fit for first lecture, in a you, know, distinguished. The ra ra lectures. Tom, is a. Professor. Here dude of. Pioneer. Working. In the indie are working, on in, the field simply I guess develop, in the fields in the 60s, which. Is that pretty insane. It. Started from Richard, on. Edge. Indeed for pilots, I guess right and showing 3d information inside, there inside, the, helmet and suede 4000, 360. And. They also. Inventor. And, the preneur and John's really. Amazing. Tasks and things themselves. We'll just like we're really happy to have you here thank, you your thanks. Everyone for coming, in. This, a beautiful building it's. Amazing, place it's. Sort of great to have it here on the campus and and especially, that's a home of the reality, lab, this. Is sort. Of almost, the reincarnation. Of some, things that were happening a long time ago in the original. Hit lab it flew call we. Were the first residence, of that that, building and. But. Now this is this, is just fantastic and. I, think we have quite a mixture of folks. Here certainly. From the capstone, and. Also. Some live students are here I hope they here. How. Many of you here from like my class. Okay. Because. They're missing my class right now so I can do this that's why I'll. Catch up with them later the others later, okay. So. Lifting. Humanity. Now, I think, a lot of us in, this, especially. The. People that are in engineering, and computer science and things like that really want, to try to do good in the world don't we we. Really would like for our work. We do to contribute somehow, to helping. Mankind. And. A. Lot. So all of us really are in. Our own way trying. To save the world but. I sort of wanted to give you my trajectory through, this space and. Sort of the things I've learned each of you will have your own stories, and those, are sort of beginning you'll. Make your story and hopefully. Your, stories, will. Lift. All of us. So. I want to introduce three. Guys. These. Are my contemporaries. When I first started off in this space there. Was a whole fellow by the name of Mort, Heilig how, many have ever heard of more high league. Okay. Mort high league Thank. You Mort, high league was a filmmaker and. He. Basically. Decided. There's a not enough. Sensory. Input, coming from film, and he. Wanted to actually add some more senses, not, only the. Visual but, he wanted to do visual in 3d and he, wanted to do sound he, want to do sound in 3d, he. Also wanted to do smell, he. Wanted to do he didn't work on taste too much but. He wanted to have a tactile. Wind. Blowing on your face things like that so. He worked on what is called a sensorama, here. He actually sitting in front of it so like a kiosk, where. You put your head into this you sit on the chair the chair would vibrate wind, would blow on your face you would get smells you get 3d, and basically playing the film so. He had built this camera, that would record a lot of these things pretty. Cool actually. So. He was, with us for a while and sort, of inspired this whole idea that we are really, multi-sensory. Beings and that's, the way we basically, perceive the world. Well. Then there's this guy by name of I'm in the subtle I'm sure more of you have heard of Ivan Sutherland, I'm. In Sutherland, computer. Science. Person. Started out near my team went to the University of Utah formed. A company with David Evans call. Heaven. The Sutherland and they. Were big into computer graphics hardware he. Did some early work trying. To figure out a better way to interface humans, to computers, because.
Everything Was in 2d how, in the world could we make this 3d, and not, only how could we make it 3d but how could you go inside, these. 3d, objects, so. We did some early work in that and he, preceded, me what about five years or something like that in. Terms of birth and. Here you have lieutenant, Tom, Furness. Lieutenant. Tom Furness I was. Grew. Up in Western North Carolina you could probably tell by my accent, and. I. Went to Duke University, got a degree in electrical engineering this, is during the Vietnam War I had a 1a draft, status which. Meant I was going to go in the military regardless. I did any choice but. I could get a student deferment, which, meant if I went to school I wouldn't, have to go for, a while but, soon as I finished, I got commissioned, in the Air Force as an officer second lieutenant in the Air Force so. I am standing in at the wright-patterson Air Force Base where I had my first assignment, and basically. My assignment, had to do with fighter, airplanes, and how. Do we interface pilots to fighter airplanes, so. What I'm gonna do today and the, time that I have is try to rush through a few things but. I want to get questions from you because you might have some questions as you go along just sort of hold, them until the end and then you can thinkin, can, then Lam, on me but. I had these four phases of my attempts, to save the world and, let. Me just speak to a little, bit to each of them the, first was, basically. Making, a sword to begin with well. Here I was a brand-new second lieutenant, in the military, and my, job was, to figure out how, to. Connect this, person, to. This machine. Very. Complex, machine, and. When. You're in this machine you're doing things like looking, at this. There. Are 75. Displays, 300. Switches 11, switches on the control stick 9 switches, on the throttle you're flying twice the seasons speed. Of sound pulling, G's the boundaries of consciousness, and being shot at at the same time. So. A busy day at the office. So. Not only were you sitting in this and trying to understand, how this works this is what you're doing. So. You have all these dynamics you're dealing with flying. Upside down you, look at this guy he's looking out of the cockpit you want to spend as much time looking out of the cockpit as you can. The. Cost you. Don't want to. Have, an encounter with, the earth at. A high speed or, another airplane for that matter. So. This is a very difficult job and how, do you build a workstation that actually solves. These fundamental, problems and these. Were a few of the challenges I was trying to deal with we. Were having you aim the whole airplane in order. To steer the, systems, on the airplane the, same things, we. Also had a problem seeing at night when, you're flying at. Night low, altitude high speed how do you see then how do you deal with all this complexity, and also, how do we do this, relating. What's in the cockpit of what's in the outside world. So. We came up with some solutions, for these, the. First was how do we address the aiming problem. Here. You have a situation where, this, is vacuuming listen one of the aircraft, I was lying in it's. A phantom, the. Problem was you have to aim the whole airplane or aim the systems on the airplane all. These sensors that are how you have here and of course the weapons and things like that. Well. I started to work on this and to come up with a way to solve, that problem and, you're, here here you see lieutenant Furness, wearing. The world's first helmet. Sight system, what. This is is a gadget that fits on top of your helmet and it. Has two lead sulfide photo dyes on the side of the helmet here and what. Happens is you have a little Pipper here that projects on an infant many commonly added reticle about infinity, and, when you move your head over that object replace that circle over, a target then what we do is triangulate, on each side of the helmet to. Tell you where, that vector is that. Lines up with your pepper and, we, can do that in real time and track, with all kinds of degrees of freedom so this. Is the very first airforce, head tracking system, they. Help us solve that problem what we did is we went and tested it and. We found out there's an f-106 aircraft, we, were pulling Jesus up to seven eight GS and. And. Having. Target angular rates running through about twenty thirty degrees a second, we're. Measuring how this pilot, was, tracking, those targets, here's the helmet, with the sensors on the side here's, a scanner.
On The canopy rail infrared scanner and we, found out these pilots were tracking, with. Basically. Zero mean error, it. Was amazing, is it better the sensors could do. Humans. What you've given the proper interface can do amazing things so we. Found out it really worked and really worked well name. Various, systems in the cockpit, input, information to the computers, things like that. So. Now you could look way off boresight without having to aim an airplane which, is a big deal. Okay. So. That's sort of the tracking problem, then. We have the seeing at night problem, how in the world we're going to do that well. Of course the problem with these cockpits, is you don't have a whole lot of space. This. Is just sort of a notional. Diagram, that shows the canopy rail here all these instruments that you saw before and, because. All the instruments there there's not enough space to put a display it's. Not big enough so you can actually see it, because. That. Real, estate in a fighter cockpit is the most expensive real estate on the earth in terms, of per square inch what. It costs if you want to move something excavate. It and put something else in its place. So. The problem was a palace could actually see at night through. Forward-looking. Infra-red low light level television, sensors, but. The picture wasn't big enough for us at throne to see it so. How do we solve that well. Turns. Out that we have this whole notion of virtual. Images. Now, virtual, images, are there, all the time when you stand in from the mirror every morning you see a virtual image of yourself that's not really you there but, it appears to be you. So. Here we have reality. And virtuality. This. Appears. The mountains upside down but they are really there they, just appear to be there, so. How can we take that take, that into account and use it, so. Here's lieutenant furnace wearing the first helmet mounted display in, this. Case we had a miniature television, picture tube, on. The side of the helmet that generate. A raster, pattern and then. We relay that raster pattern with optics, up to, the eye this. Is one I display, so. It was magnified, collimated, and projected, so it appears that optical infinity, and subtends.
A Visual angle of 30 degrees. When. Before you had about five degrees and now, you have 30 degrees and you aren't taking up any cockpit, space, with. This virtual image now what, you are doing is, you're putting 15 kilovolts, on the, side of the helmet and. You, have to have a quick-release mechanism because. You don't want to punch out of that aircraft, with. This thing dangling on. The side of your head right, you. Know what I mean when I say punch out of the aircraft that, means if you have to leave the office really fast. And. So. That's one of the problems also you have a problem we men blast, what. Happens when you eject when you're going through the past, guess. What the. Wind sort of blows against you right, and. If, you're flying you. Know near the Mach and you. Eject your head blows off. You. Lose your head. Because. You're generating over the top of the helmet lift, several. Several. Hundred six hundred seven or eight hundred pounds, lifting, on your head because, of the airfoil effect, we. Had to take all these things into account, also. If, you're only can't on the on the apron. And you have to get out of there in a hurry you, have to pull the cable and unleash, it. Well. If you're, in a, fuel. Rich environment. You don't want to create any sparks. Right. So. How do you build a connector, that you disconnect 15, kilovolts. Electromagnetic. Deflection. Without. Creating a spark so. These are just some practical problems we were trying to deal with so. Doing, that in an aircraft a lot different than doing it on the ground in terms, of the problems you have to solve. Okay. Well here we're now instead, of having that little 5 degree display we had a 30 degree display. And. Oh by the way you can move it anywhere you want to move your hand because. Now you're not restricted to looking at one particular place in the cockpit. So. We started thinking well let's put these two together, let's. Put the tracking system then for a tracking, system along.
With The display now this is a different display here. We have the miniature cathode, ray tube here in the back and, it. Relays the image with a coherent fiber-optic, bundle over the top of the helmet into. This paraboloid, which is the visor, it. Protects first into this spot and the paraboloid into, a mirror it's at the focal point of the parabola back. Into the visor and in the palace eye you. Can build two of these so it's bad binocular. So. The double bounce off the, visor the first, bounce. Is an a spheric, corrector, for the second bounce, it's. Beautifully, elegant so. When you switch this thing off you can't even tell you how the hell a head-mounted display, oh no there's, a couple system. So. Here we now not, only could move your head around and get that display but we knew exactly where, it was because. We're tracking where, the head position was so, therefore, what we could do is use that to, aim the sensors wherever we move our head and then, we get the image in that, direction so, it's like we had a picture window to, look through the cockpit at night with. Infrared eyes or low light level television, eyes this. Was transformational, and. Again. I was flying in these aircraft, testing these things, but. Then we added one more thing you, know, we really it's not natural necessarily. To aim things by aiming your head what. You want to do is be able to look at them and, that should be good enough so, we. Started working on this same parabolic. Visor combiner, and putting. A camera and an, infrared source, that projects light into the eye infrared, light, and they, will look at the reflections, from the eye and track it so now. We know the position, instantaneously. Are the eyes in, the, helmet in the helmet relative the aircraft so. Therefore you had the absolute line of sight in space where you're looking just, with your eyes and. Use that to control switches you, can use that to select. Different functions, in the aircraft and and, so forth. So. Let's, fast forward a little bit and. Look at this whole issue of the complexity, you. Know what do you do with 75, displays, in 300 switches the lemon switches on the control stick and nine switches that throttle oh by the way the, switches, change what they do, depending. Upon what master, mode you're in and the aircraft you. Should go into a different mode the switches do something different and. So. It. Is very difficult to solve that problem so this is where a. Few, years later I started. Working on the notion of the super cockpit, which. Is a cockpit did you wear, magic. Helmet magic. Flight suit magic, gloves that, basically presents three-dimensional. Information to you and you, interact with it naturally. So. Here we have an. F16. Aircraft, 50. Computers on board one. Pilot, interacting. With 50 computers in real, time. So. You have a computer, for your air data you, have a computer by for your digital fly-by-wire for. Your propulsion. Management. For stability augmentation, for. Your. Threat, systems, so, forth and so forth there are 50 of them if, you. Had a power failure in, the, main power, bus of that aircraft it, just ain't gonna be a good day, because. The airplane tends to swap, ends it's it's. On, the fringe right. On the fringe of stability and, you. Do that so it has its performance, but. You have to have the computers to stabilize, everything. So. What happens if you lose power to, that they're. Playing tends to swap ends the blending end goes to the front and a pointy end goes to the back and, you're. Gonna have to leave the office really, fast. So. How do you deal with that this. Is an f-18, cockpit. Now. We are going to all kinds of electronic, displays, and oh by the way you, say well doesn't that simplify, things, no. But. Goes now you, could put many more symbols, up here you push one of these buttons you get a whole different set of symbols and you have to know what they do the. Manual for the f-16, radar is that thick. Sixty. Modes you can call up on the f-16 radar. Alone. And. You. Know when, you actually get down to it the. Pilots, will use four, or. Five. But. They're all there and you have to know what they do. So. Like Microsoft, Word you know and all the options that you have there what do you usually use you. Know. So. That's the problem we're trying to solve, now.
The Way I went about it that was my responsibility. And, advance. Developing, bands cockpits. So. What, did I do. Well. Up to this point in time, pilot. Was the last thing that people thought of you. Build a airplane you build a cockpit they know by the way you put a pilot thing you have to learn how to use all that or, she. So. What we did is went back to the basics. And. I, started, from the human and worked out. So. We took a typical. Air Force pilot and we took a typical. Person. And. We basically spent. A million bucks of the taxpayers money I hired. The world's authorities. In human. Perception and, performance, and. They. Built these books made. These books. In. Their interactive. Perceptual, information integrated. Perceptual information for, designers, they still exist you can order, them out, of D Tech and, so. From that we, learned a lot of things about people and it. Really boils down the $1,000,000, boils down to about a few things number. One. Humans, are 3 dimensional beings we. See here. Touch, in three dimensions, anytime. We deviate from that we. Have to learn something. Another. Thing we have to unlearn understand, is we're all different we, have different shapes and sizes, we have different likes dislikes different. Cultural backgrounds, things like that. We. Have four eyes. We. Actually have two visual systems, and two. Eyes that gives us four eyes in. The way that our eyes, work and I'll explain that a little bit later all. Of these kinds of things we begin to understand so, then we decided okay how would we build an ideal. Cockpit. To get bandwidth, tuned from the brains of these, crew members because, the reason you have the crew member there at all is. It because the, human is the adaptive element in the system. They're. The ones that make the decisions, because. Things don't always work the way you think they're going to otherwise. You just program a computer to do this. So. The human is the adaptive, element. So. We built this super. Cockpit, the, idea of the super cockpit, again. Is you put on this magic helmet we, had lasers. That actually project into of a. Holographic. Lens and. In. Stereo. We had binaural sound and here speech input hand. Tracking, hand, tracking finger, tracking tactile. Displays, TAC doors that were in the gloves so, what. You'd have is basically, you put on this flight suit plug, in and, you have a three-dimensional world represented.
To You and. You. Interact with it by looking at things pointing. At things saying, things, in. Order. To operate, this complex system. So. The whole idea was to turn this, into. This this. Is, what the pilot would see at night flying. At low altitude, high speed it's greatly simplified, isn't it but all the information that, you saw in that other display, is in this one oh it's. Organized, and portrayed in what we call a memetic display in that it minds the world and acts like the world so. You could tell for example as you fly along this is a stored terrain database, data. Map you, see as you're flying along you see these barber poles here as. This. Moves along underneath you you know exactly what your altitude is in your speed without. Looking at any instrument, it. Becomes intuitive. You see the pathway in the sky automatically, computed to avoid threats this is a threat that's radiating do not fly through the red DOMA the, probability. Of survival, is really low if you fly through the red. Okay. Here's a. Hillside. All this string to here, here. This is these are two surface-to-air. Missile batteries that are not radiating, but they're there you know from your intelligence, your. Two friendly aircraft you, know they're up there here's a possible enemy aircraft you don't know who, that guy is you squawk afford code. Form iff. Iff. Is, in. Identification. For info. You. Know they you say who are you, electronically. And, if they don't answer back that's, not good. Or. A thing they, give, you the wrong password, okay. So. Here that's highlight here's the compass rose where it really is in the sky and then, the weapons stores all the other information you have in this, three-dimensional. Panoramic. Virtual, world at night. Daylight. You see through it. We. Never had the difference between AR and VR in the old days it was all just one thing we just changed the transmission of the visor, and. It was all the, same. So. In addition to that, we. Also had this so-called. Gods I display. So. You have an inside out and outside in, display. So. And your inside out you, basically see the virtual world through. Your, headgear and things like that as. You're looking around but. We also need a God's eye display and this, is sort of like a hemisphere, that sits on your lap and, you see the whole world sitting. Right. There on your lap in the. Way you would interact with it is you, wouldn't reach out and touch things and you, control your communications, that way so. You pointed an object you want to computer eight with you, automatically, encrypt, it the, communication, and that, takes, place also. We had r2d2, in this cockpit by, the way we. Had a, we. Had an, expert system that. Would be in pollen and tin inference engine, that. Would tell us when. What. The past they, try to infer what the Polish trying to do and organize the world for them in real time to help them do that. Wien, also had a problem with. Ag, loss of consciousness what, we call G lock because. You pull enough G's you're black out, and. So. We, want to know all the time at the pile is conscious, and. Head. Lolling indicator, was if we had begin, to, Lal down like, this we're saying that's, not good and, so, what we do is create a a slap. A sound. In the headset if there, wasn't a starless, response, on the part of the pilot that, meant they were out cold and. Then. The computer would take over and fly the airplane, we've lost so many aircraft, in because. G, loss of consciousness. So. These were all built into this super cockpit, in this. Case, if. You. Are now seeing an object that you're interested in in your gods, I just like where is this in the real world you point at it and this laser line. Would come out of your finger and you, see where it is in the outside world. We've. Never been able to do that before. It's. Virtual, its, projected, from, your display, and you see it there and you actually reach. Out and touch these things yeah. Well. That's. All good theory but does it really work. So. We had to build a simulator, a test, these ideas before we put them in the real airplane and. This. Is my Darth Vader simulator, now, built in 1981. What. It did was we used this friend pancake. Optical, system which, is pretty amazing in terms of collimation, and. We took these two miniature cathode, ray tubes. Water-cooled. Electronics. We. Had to cool electronics. Because we're moving, that raster line really fast, and. We, projected so you see a. Total. Of 120, degrees instantaneously. By. 80 degrees, and. Stereographic.
And, This. Was in 1981. When. We turned this on for the first time this. Was all connect to a 16-bit, electromagnetic. Tracking system and. To. Eight VAX computers, and, to. Pdp-11, x' attached to two evident sullen picture systems, one. To draw the left eye one, to draw the right eye, this. Is all vector graphic, at the time and. So. That you'd get these these virtual worlds and. This. Is what we use to test the concepts, in the laboratory, before, we went out and test them in the real aircraft. Let. Me play you just a short video that was. Taken by ANOVA, when. They came to my lab one day. And. Inside, what must be the zany Estelle Minh ever devised, this. Is what the pilot sees. Like. Some fantastic. Arcade, game of the future the. Pilot flies through a world that the computer, is devised, for him based. Upon the known characteristics, of the f-15, and its potential adversaries. In. This tron-like 3d, arena he, can take off and land navigate. To preset, coordinates, and he can fire his guns if need be there, is still a gun and, activate. His missiles all by. Voice control, the lack. The. Engineers, readily, admit that, these futuristic, concepts. Are likely to remain impractical. For at least the next eight to ten years and clearly. No pilot could be persuaded to dogfight fooling, G's with, a ridiculous, contraption like this on his head. But it is only experimental, and. Advances, in miniaturizing, the, high-resolution TV, screens that will project the graphic displays onto the inside of the visor have, already led to the development of a new and much more feasible flying helmet currently, under test. But. Even more unusual ideas. Are being developed at wright-patterson. This. Man is switching switches, simply, by looking at them using. Infrared, lasers, sensors. In his helmet read, his eye position from, moment to moment, so that computers, can identify the, switch he's looking at and. Down. The corridor, the tiny magnetic, fields, given off by the, brain activity, of this research, volunteer, are, being analyzed, by a superconducting. Device known simply as, squid. Controlling. Fighter aircraft, systems, simply, by thinking is. Some, researchers, claim no. More than thirty years away. Okay. What do you think that movie was made. Pretty. Close it. Was made in. 1986. I think 1986. So. If, you do your maths right. What. Does that mean. Well. It turns out my last trip to my old lab, at wright-patterson, Air Force Base I. Went. Into their new simulator, and. It. Was amazing, all this, huge dome, projection system. It's, cockpit on a hydraulic, lift they. Put this band around my head and. Asked. Me some questions to, think this think that think that and, then they said okay now you can fly the airplane, with, your arms folding just. By thinking about it. Now. It's not gonna be in the inventory for a while probably to. Do that especially. If I'm errant thoughts or something like that you know might not be good but. It can be done in. Direct. Brain interfaces, as you know we're happening. Okay. So all, of this that. Helmet was not practical. But. This is the helmet one, of the helmets that we built. And. We wanted this, to be you, know take into account all of the technology, we could the time to, make it lightweight really. Strong and, we. Wanted to look cool and. So. What we did was. We hired. Lucasfilm's. The. Industrial, designers, right, after Star Wars to. Design a sexy, helmet for us. And. So, this is one of the designs. One, of them had lightning bolts painting on sky blue lightning, bolts you know it. Was it was really cool and of course you have to understand it pilots need, to look good they. Have to look we only have to have a silk scarf cool. Helmet, things, like that. So. This one now again. Is a compound. Paraboloid, here projection. Into the visor has. The tracking system in it and everything and it weighs two pounds. Which. Is the time for an Air Force helmet furthermore. Aerodynamic. Dynamically. Is beautiful, this, little rim here acts like a perfect, air dam, spoiler. For. The helmet so, now instead of six to eight hundred pounds, when you eject you, have a mere 200. On. Your head. So. These were the things that were going on in my life. When. I was trying to save humanity. And. Now if you go look at the f-35, aircraft the. Joint Strike Fighter guess what. It's. There, this. Stuff is there took. A while to get there but nevertheless. That. Early work that I was doing is now actually in, the inventory. Now. Something, happened. In. 1988. 87. 88 time period. I. Got. A call from a general officer from the Pentagon. He. Said Tom I'm. In watching your work and. We. Decided. We. Need some positive publicity. The defense appropriations, bill is coming up and, we're, going to get hammered because has just come out of the news that, Navy is spending.
$800. Of toilet seats the, army is spending $500. For hammers I don't. Know if you you all guys may remember that 20 was, how I was caught on and. They said we're, going to get hammered. With. The appropriations. Bill what. We usually do is we release. Something. Black. That we've been doing a black ship black, airplane, the, show the taxpayers, they were spending their money really. Well to protect the. Country, but. We don't have one of those this year but we have you. We. Would like for you to write a press release and, hold a press conference. What. You're doing in this virtual stuff, is, virtual cockpit stuff. And. I said well you know it's all classified and, they said be classified. It's. All show business you know so. I said okay and I wrote up something and and sure. Enough the CBS Evening News comes, then Dan, Rather crowd. David. Martin the Pentagon correspondent with. A film crew and they spend two days taping. What's. Going on in my lab so. I end up on the CBS Evening, News. Explaining. This super. Cockpit stuff, well. That. Open Pandora's box because. After, that then. NBC. Had to come in ABC. In CNN. And CBC. And BBC. Australian. Television. Science. Editor, of the New York Times came down and spent a day with me we're. On the front covered US News and World Report, I was writing writing articles for Popular Mechanics magazine and. Any. Anybody. It flew by, over. Ohio. Ended. Up in my lab I'm convinced, we. Also had the general switch, when. The generals came to visit I had, a special switch I throw. The general switch and they never missed their targets. Whenever. They were operating, theirs, you know they. Were so good. So. But. As. A result of all this I started getting phone calls I, got. A phone call from my mother or she says I'm watching this program on television you were talking about what you're doing and my, child has cerebral palsy is there. Anything you can do with this technology to help my child, and. Then a surgeon. Called me says i'm the thoracic surgeon. I'm. I'm. Trying to do. A grafter, they order and, I'm into this patient, up to my elbows, trying. To find my way around and, my navigation, system, which is my CT, scan is. On. A line box on the wall, anyway. You can sort. Of put that. In. My, display so I can see into the patient. Then. Another surgeon, said well I'm I'm trying to perfect an in the minimally. Invasive surgical, procedure, I want to be in the inside, looking out here's. The ways you can put my eyes inside the patient, then. A, firefighting. Company, call me and said we have this problem with firefighters, they're, going into these buildings. Fill. With smoke, they. Don't know if they're any people in the building they. Can't see through the smoke they. Can't see each other they. Don't even know where they are in the building and the, fire chief is trying to vector all of this, manage. All of us has a radio, and outside the building he didn't know anything. Anyway. You could solve that problem remember a few years ago we lost 12, firefighters here. In Seattle, because they were standing on top of the fire and didn't know it they. Caved in we, lost them.
So. I was getting three or four phone calls a week from people, like this and my answer to all of them was well yeah you could do that not. In fact that'd be easy to do compared to what I'm trying to do, and. I realize at that point you know we're. On to something really big, this. Whole virtual. Interface, thing that can be transformative, because. We knew it. Was an amazing, way to accelerate, learning to get bandwidth, to the brain and you never forgot it once. You were in one of these immersive virtual world's. So. That's. When I decided. We. Got to get it out of the military because. We, could probably, do. A lot more good with it outside. Than inside, and. I put together a plan to set up a laboratory somewhere in the United States. At. A university, where, all. This money the taxpayers have spent on me could get out and. We can do something good with the technology, rather. Than just building weapons. And. So, I. Sent. My. Plan. To, MIT and Caltech and Stanford, and Carnegie Mellon University of. Texas and University of Utah, University. Of North Carolina. Here. And. The. Dean of the College of Engineering. Followed. Me and said come on out and talk to us. So. I did. And. I. Walked. Into his office and. There, was no other guy sitting beside him. Who. Looked. Familiar and, he. Was actually, the executive director, of the Washington Technology. Center he introduced himself to me and I said don't I know you from somewhere before he said yeah I used. To be the chief scientist, of the Air Force and. I've, been to your live at wright-patterson Air Force Base we want you to come here and do that here. So. In 1989, I. Decided. To beat my sword into a. Plowshare and. Come. To the University of Washington and. Start the hit lab, started. A flu call you know where the makerspace isn't, food called that, used to be where my lab was part. Of it was also, on other floors. Well. In, the process of doing that some. Wonderful things happen, just. In summary and I'll get, to some specific things but in summary, the. Whole idea of the lab was not. Only to develop technology, but. Also to get it out there, that. My report card was based upon how many companies, would spawn how, many patents that we generated, and, how. Many people were employed in the state of Washington, as a result of that, now. After this period of time we have spun off 27, companies. Two. Of the companies are traded on NASDAQ and a market cap of 12, billion dollars. Over. One hundred three. Hundred I think 20 hundred patents and. Hundreds. Of students, and. That's you guys. The. 12 million twelve billion dollars worth. But. There, been some interesting things along the way it, worked, the plan worked. When. I first started nobody really knew what virtual reality was. So. It, was clear that we had to do something about that. So. What I did was I put, together some of my ideas to build a consumer. Virtual. Reality Display, and.
This. Was my patent in 1992. What. Is called a display system, for head-mounted viewing, transparency. And. What it does is takes a vacuum like present, rear, illuminator, liquid, crystal screen protected, down to a prison, and what. You now see is a virtual image of that original, LCD. Screen at. One meter wide three meters away and, of. Course it moves around when you move your head and this, is all connected to a. Pack. Here so we started a company called virtual vision. Virtual. Vision I was marketing, built and marketed this this, display. I was on the board of directors of the company and the. Inventor and here's. A person wearing the display here you see the headset and. This. Belt pack that had batteries in it and a television receiver at, that, time. Television. Actually broadcasts, of the air did you know that it's. Pretty amazing you, can actually put it on the air here. It is looks. Like a hololens doesn't it. This. Is a 1993. You. Put this on you. Plug it into your receiver, here. With. Your little antenna right, and. You. Can watch Oprah while. You're sitting on walkie Key Beach why, you'd never want to do that I don't know but you could do it with this. So. We. Raised a bunch of money where. It's a consumer electronics show people lined up for two hours to see this thing everybody. Saying gosh you go to make a fortune with this we're. Thinking to ourselves we're going to make a fortune with this and. But. It cost seven. Hundred and ninety nine dollars. So. We introduced, it on the marketplace Magnolia, hi-fi people, lined up to see it and walk inside gosh I have to have this how much does it cost. Seven. Hundred ninety nine dollars ooh. I'm. Gonna have to go ask my wife. Now. You can imagine how that conversation. Went. And. We were making a lot of money at $799. It just cost that much we didn't have the components. But. What happened was, interesting. Dennis. Started, buying these. We. Said what we. Started looking at who's buying these all we were sending these things at dental clinics and, we. Finally decided to go visit. Some. Dental clinics see, what they were doing with, this and, what they were doing is you're putting us on their patients, the. Patients would select a movie they, could plug in directly to this and now. They're, watching this movie while, the dentists are inflicting pain on them, and. The the dentists were saying wow this is great patients, aren't complaining anymore you, know they that, you know I get on with my work and everything but it's causing another problem, now I can't get them to leave, and, I can't leave now this is a good part you know and but. Even. More remarkable than that is this. That's. A little girl what. Is she doing. It. Was amazing. These, kids would go home and ask their parents when can I go back to the dentist again so. I can. So. We said in the dentists said they don't seem to be experiencing, any pain so we that. We took this for a while and said okay, let's investigate it further so we went on over to the Children's Hospital, over here. You. Know and work with some doctors who are treating. Leukemia. Patients. These. Are kids that are really sick. And. Of course there are administering, chemotherapy to, these students I think through these sons these, kids these patients, and, the. Problem is you have to extract bone marrow to find out efficacy. Of the, treatment and these. Patients, are really sick. And you Kanin emphasize, them so. The way you get bone marrow is you stick a needle in the hip and. You draw the bone marrow and it's, so painful, they use, the screen, and. So. What.
We Did was give them this set up to, put, on a headset, and the. Nintendo controller. And. The kids would be bent over playing. This game. Position. Would put in the needle and they'd keep it going, and. Keep going, the. Doctors, and nurses will look at each other and saying what. Is going on here, you know well, we knew that television done the mind well, now we know for sure it, doesn't. But. This started a whole program and I'll talk about a few minutes in pain. But. As it turns out we were way too early with this now. You can go by my, view. For. $199. Which is my patent. If. You won't the model is probably going to cost a little more but. You. Can now buy these and, variations, of this. Today. And. Then, of course that caused a whole bunch of things to happen the. Glastron, imagine. Google, glass all of these things eventually came. From that, original work. So, there. Are still limitations, of these displays. In. Order. To get a wide field of view and a high-resolution display. You have to have a lot of resolution, and luminance here, and. That's. Difficult to do. Normally. In a display. You. Have when you have a real, object and you're looking at that real object, with. Optics. Which is pretty much what we do in all the head-mounted displays, today. So. You have a lot of pixels here you. May have a million, pixels that, you. Now, collimate. And, so, they appeared on this screen, appears an optical Infinity and then, that goes into the retina the eye I. Decided. You know we're. Never going to get there this way we're not gonna get the field of view the resolution, things like that we need what. We need to do is actually, create one. Pixel, and. Scan. It directly on the retina, at, high, speed so, there. Is no screen anywhere. All. There is is a beam of light. That. Goes directly to the retina. So. This is my patent of the virtual retinal display, is, breakthrough, and. Concept. Now. Not even forming, an aerial image it goes directly to the retina, since. You did in 1995. Guess, what that means. How. Long do patents last. 20. Years I. Was. Too early. On. This, but. Nevertheless we. Started building these things here. You see an optical bench with. Our color, display. We. Had two lasers. We. Had a helium, neon, laser as a provided red light argon, ion that, provided, a green and blue light and. Then we took those light beams, and then, we modulated, them with. Acoustical, modulators, and then, combined, them into. Single, fibers. Into. One single fiber and here you can barely see it as a fiber a single, fine it comes up here and this. Is a scan had two scans in two dimensions, into, a spherical, mirror and a, combiner, and then, you see this, image you. See it this scandal, and your retina but what you see is an image. An. Optical infinity, it's, beautiful. Highly, saturated color, very, low energy. Because. You don't want to of course you don't want to injure the retina very, low energy. So. Here's. A little video. Now. We've all seen pictures and texts on computer, screens like these but, what if I told you that over in Seattle they're, working on a laser system which, bypasses the, screen altogether and projects, a high-resolution color image straight onto the retina of your eye it. Sounds, unbelievable but they've already completed, a working prototype, Craig, Doyle checks out. This. Is the first full-color. Virtual, retinal display. Nor VRD for short the, way it works is instead of seeing the image on the computer screen it's painted, directly onto my retina, by a laser now, I know that sounds a little bit dangerous but the laser is quite low powered so, won't damage my eye what I do is I line up one eye with, a little colored, dot I can see now, as I move in the.
Picture Gets bigger and bigger and bigger the dot expands and they're there, I can see the full picture looks. Like it's hovering in the air about five feet in front of me and, it's, exceptionally. High quality the, flickering is caused by interference, with our camera not the V or T in. Fact, the V or D goes one step further, not, only can you enter a virtual. World but lets you overlay, those images, on the real world. Now. The incredible thing about the or Dita's because, the image is put to rec into my eye, there's, no need for an intervening screen, so I left this up. Right. Now I can see the picture and I can see everything else in the room as well so. If I just slide my hand in there. Now. It looks like the whole picture has been superimposed, on my hand. That's fantastic. So. Here you have something that is both AR, NVR if, you, don't see through its, VR if you see through its they are. So. We, went on continued. On with this work we, decided what we had is a scanning aperture, and. What we could do is introduce all kinds of things for that scanning aperture so. We built what we call an interactive, virtual retinal display, so. We are actually tracking high positions, at the same time so. You could tell exactly what. Pixel you're looking at, in. This video. And also. We, tracked where your head position is, using. The same technology. And. We, had funding from several sources on that then. We realize also, now that you're using coherent, light lasers, produce, coherent, light what. That means that you can shape the light wavefront. What. That means that you can shape it so it appears to be different distances, so that means every pixel, can. Be at a different distance and, that's. What happens in the real world all. Of our V all our displays today put all the pixels at the same distance, you. With collimating, lenses but. That's not the way the real world is and so. We have virgin's cues that tell us these are binocular cues that are giving, us cues, at different distances, but, all of the pixels are still an optical infinity. Which. Is a conflict, that's, not what the real world is like this. Way we, could actually solve that problem, and we. Started working on the true 3d display this technologies has been licensed by company, called magic, leap and you guys ever heard a magic leap okay. They're, the ones that they're basically using my original. Patents for this this kind of thing there's. One other thing that was in this patent it was pretty cool. We. Decided you know we don't want to have electromechanical, engines. Actually scanning a laser even, though they're really small we. Want to do it electronically, like we do phased. Array radars, and. If, we have micro cavity lasers, here, and.
We, Modulate these, cavities bias, them in certain ways we, can control, the. Way the light wavefront, goes out we. Can even shape that way front and we can scan it, as we want to and have. Unlimited, number, of picture elements, and so. This. What I believe is the future of. Hey. Bakes basically, a phased array scanner, is going to take the place of all the other means. Of doing these things now I didn't get a chance to build this in. Time but, I think we, want to try to do this in the future. Okay. Some. Other things that came out of this when you're going in a direction you sort of stumble on things we, decided well why can't we just take those fibers, that, we're laying the image and we, can actually scan them in a raster and, we figure out a way to drive these little. Scan these little fibers, we. Even write things with it and, and. Actually. Turn it into an, endoscope. So. We built this into scope, that. Lets us go in the body we're talking about something that is less. Than a, one, millimeter in diameter, they. Can image in the body greater than any other endoscope. That exists today could go into one, of the things. We did in the, lab as we were imaging, inside, a rat's, bladder. So. We were putting this inside the bladder of a rat rat, wasn't very happy in doing, this but nevertheless it, could be done and, is. Also in color and. 3d. So. That's, something it was a fall out of what we were doing originally. Okay. Now this. Student shows up and, Linda knows very well along with me mark. Milling Hearst from. New Zealand and. Mark. Was. Very interested, in what we know today is augmented. Reality, and. The. Video based augmented, reality like Pokemon, go and things like that sort of like that, anyhow. Mark. Along. With one, of our visiting scholars, Hiroko. Got. Together and, started working on this notion of video. Based tracking, using. Computer vision technology. You. Can just take a black square and, this. Is just on an ordinary foam core right here you can print it on a piece of paper whatever put. This black square and you put a symbol there and then. You look at it with set of goggles a TV camera, TV. Camera scans this as ah there's a black square I'm gonna start tracking it with. Six. Degrees of freedom and oh by the way I'm recognizing, the symbol that's in there and, it just happens to be a. Samurai. And, so. You pull a samurai out of the library and you paste it on that card so whenever you move that around it's, just like it's there it's like super glued to, this particular thing. So. What this meant is that opened, up a whole new idea, about, books. So. You know when you're reading books. You're. Reading a book and you have these images, of your mind of what you're reading and. But. What if you're reading a book about Cinderella. And, and. You put on your glasses and. What. Happened Cinderella's. Castle pops, out of the book there. It is you, can move it around look, in it you look in the window well there's some people inside, I want, to go and. So you flip a switch and, you. Go there now. You're in the book. Wandering. Around in the castle, now. You're switching from outside. To in you're. Running around the castle do some things there I decide. It's time to leave turn, the page and there's another world for you to go into, so. This is the magic book technology, and. Playing. Another little video. Welcome. Back a new kind of reading material, may hit store bookshelves soon, queue 13s Elizabeth Johnson shows us a magic book conjured, up at the University, of Washington. This. Is a story about a Japanese princess, and, she's crying here it, looks like just a regular children's, book but this book can take you on a magic, carpet ride of sorts when, we were children you know you'd read folks with your parents, and you always want to become part of the story and, so it's what about that we thought how we could make that happen, mark Billing Hearst is on the team of researchers working on the magic book project, at the University, of Washington's, human, interface, technology. Labs so when I look at the pages through this headset I see 3d virtual characters, come out of the pages and by simply flipping a switch you can virtually leap, into the scenes so, here's the samurai and the, samurais looking, a, little bit confused, because, he, can't find his. Horse. Of, course it's not really magic the secret is special, software written, by the researchers, and the, black squares, on, the pages of the books we have a picture with a black square around it and in the way our software works is that the, camera recognizes, us this picture and overlays, visual our models on top of this picture you need a computer, camera, and virtual, reality glasses mark.
Says If you already have a PC the rest should cost about $700. The technology, does more than entertain, kids. It. Can be used to show 3d, how-to diagrams. To, show an anti view of a flower or to help medical students, we're, working right now with the medical school to build an Anatomy, textbook so you can see a virtual 3d heart and fly inside the heart Elizabeth. Johnson cue 13 reports, the. Lab is giving away the software, for free and, researchers, say they've already had interest, from a museum and a car company so you could expect to see the magic book technology, in the world world in just a couple years okay, so. What. Happened with this is we, formed. A company called ar2 works this. Is called the AR toolkit we had a hundred thousand downloads of, this, open-source. Download, and, so. We formed this company as a very first AR company, I think, surely it's the only air company made any money I think but. We. Sold it in 2015. Daiquiri but. It. Was what got this out to the beginning now there are lots of them and we had natural feature tracking all this other we, didn't need the cards anymore to, do that but, you can see what can happen with augmented reality we also used, it for molecular, modeling how, you could have tangible, interfaces. With. With, various molecules we. Also did, a project with the Boston Museum of Science funded, by NSF and lucasfilm's. Where, we actually built, a tune and. It was of augmented, reality you, could actually populate, the city of tattoo in, Star, Wars to. Find out what's the optimum placement of the distillery's and things like that and this, was this turret all over the world this particular exhibit. Okay. So I'm. Running out of time guys. I'm. At attempt. 3, which. Is doing some really cool stuff. Taking, into account what we did before let me see if I can buzz through a few, of these things quickly, for you you remember the virtual retinal display, I showed, you before. One. Day a guy came into the lab and. Said. That he happened to be on the board of directors of the Washington Technology Center he, said I've heard about this virtual retinal AI want to see it so, we took him down in the lab we set him in front of the an optical, bench had, him look into this and sure enough you know you see this amazing picture as, you saw in the movie, and. And. He, said well that's cool you know and we said take your practicals, off this, was one monocular, it was just one eye at the time so. He took his spectacles off they said I can, still see it as clearly with, the weather my respective, spectacles, we, said yeah that's because we're all really using, the. Optical power of. The lens of your eye or your spectacles or anything like that he. Said oh that's that's interesting and then on his own he happened to look with his other eye. And. His eye his. Mouth dropped open he said wait. A minute what, are you doing we, said what do you mean he says I can see this with my blind eye, we. Said what he. Says I'm blind in my left eye, and I, can see that image oh. Yeah. And. It. Turns out he'd been an automobile accident, years. Before left, scar tissue in his eye, apparently. The retina was still working there's, a lot of scar tissue in there we. Were getting through that with. The coherent, a nature, of the light we were putting in and so. We went to the medical school went over thought Department ophthalmology, and they started sending patients to us sure. Enough patients. With all kinds of problems were able to see with this even, with age-related macular, degeneration and. That. Started us on a whole different track, and. We didn't got grants from NSF NIH, to. Work on low vision, using. The virtual retinal display. By. Accident, that's, what happens with serendipity, it. Just happened. With. This one I showed, you the little kid, right. This. Now launched, a whole new area of, research. My. Colleague, Hunter Hoffman. Psychologist. Started. Going, introduce again stubborn clinics. We. Found is the main is, amazing, what happens using. VR. As a non, pharmaceutical. Analgesic, for pain. By. Controlling, the way you think basically so. Here you have a burn pain person. Person, who's in the hospital severely, burned, resting. In bed and, generally. What happens is you can control their pain with. Morphine. You. See here's the amount. Of pain, in terms of different categories, always, there no pain to excruciating pain, and generally. You can keep it down here into this this area. But. When. You go to a. Do. Any kind of intervention like, wound. Care you're, going to pull, staples. Out of skin. Grafts you're going to put patients in a vat and soak them with water to slough off the dead skin or you going to go into physical therapy, the. Pain shoots through the roof, you. Can't dose that patient with enough morphine. It. Shoots right through that furthermore. Offering is bad, stuff it's toxic it's addictive. Things, like that. Now. If. You take those same patients and hear, you now they playing Nintendo, just looking.
At A normal screen or. Doing. Wound care they're. In VR, let's. See what happens. Red. Is just looking at the regular screen blue. Is VR. Worse. Pain this, is a scale this is the pain level here up to 10 the. Worst pain you experience, the unpleasantness, of a pain the, time spent thinking about pain. Anxiety, and you're, feeling a presence in, the space. We. Thought wow. Well. That. Probably only worked one time right. Because of novelty, the VR. Just. Opposite it, gets better the. More they're exposed to this so. This started our whole. Division. Of the, lab working on this, here. Is a fiber optics, nears you have the patient inside a water VAT or, your sloughing off the dead skin fiber. Optics, relay the image because you have any electricity here on your head you're doing this, then. We decided what's really going on in the brain so. Down in the Medical Center we put these mainly. Grad students, we. Can inflict pain on graduate, students. More. Than usual, we. Have great ways of torturing, we studied this, that's. The best way actually, the best way of. Inflicting. Pain is with a shock, to the tooth pulp, you. Run a current through the tooth you know, you. Can really and so. There. Are others other techniques like putting your hand in and ice. Water, we. Have a nice scale it goes up in pain but, in this case we're actually heating, up the bottom of their feet and. So. We inflict pain and, find. Out what happens, to the brain when, pain. Is going on and this is with an fMRI, system, in the coil with. Fiber optics come in again because you can't put anything metal in there and so. This is what we find out. You. Know this, is the pain centers, being lit up here. Without. Any VR. But. Look what happens with VR. Metabolic. Activity, and the pain center goes away and look what lights up here and the, frontal lobe. It. Really works. Because. It distracts. You turns. Out in order experience pain you have to be conscious of it, so. This is a tool, that's now being used all over the place for. Not only pain but, for PTSD, for. Phobia treatment, of which we've done a lot as well. I'm. Out of time I have. Lots of other stuff to talk about but let. Me let me show you just one little thing here I guess what. Is this I think. If we're looking for a killer application, in, VR. It's. Really education, and training in. The long term that's what it's going to be. So. How do we awaken, and. Enlighten. And. Engage. Students. You know this, kid can't wait to, get home to play Grand Theft Auto. Or. Fortnight, or whatever it is right. So. We. Begin probing. This whole area as early as 91 with the Pacific Science Center where. We, had kids build, their own virtual worlds and go into them. These. Were nine, to fourteen year olds who, had no experience with VR in four. Days built. A world, and they. Each had a polygon, allowance, they. Can only spend so many polygons, on, their part of the world because we couldn't render it that fast. So, these are some of the worlds that they built then. Garfield, High School we did a project with Garfield High School in the chemistry department and. We. Want to find out does it really work in the classroom. And. What, we did was we had the kids on use, of traditional methods with a black board we. Had a treatment that was a computer. Tutorial. System, looking. At a monitor, and then we had a virtual world where you go inside this virtual world we shrink to the size of an atom and then. You would build an, atom the, atomic structure protons, neutrons you, put them together reach out of the bins put them together mind. You this may not be out it really works but you put them together and then you pick, a electron. Out of the bin you give it an energy level to spin you put it in orbit and. Then you start building greater, atomic, numbers that way, so. What we want to do is find out just because. Of the, chemistry teacher said they really aren't getting this they aren't getting these electron orbitals. So. After this module, we tested all the students the. Kids that were making A's didn't. Make any difference which. Treatment, they had, the. ER. Or the lecture, but. The. Kids that were making C's and DS and, failing. That. Did to the Arwen caught, up with. The smart kids and when, we tested them a year later they, were better. And. What this told us and there's nothing wrong with those kids to begin with then just learn a different way and.
That. The, pedagogy, is wrong expecting. Everybody to learn the same gave, me a chance to get involved use their hands, and eye coordination, let, them do that so this led to many, many more studies, over, many. Years, we. Have we. Even went out to with. Us West foundation, we took it out to 8,000. Kids in Washington. State and, the state of Nebraska, with. Our VR RV. And. In. This, they, didn't go into the van this equipment was held in the van and then we took, it out and set it up but. In, 350. Of those kids built virtual worlds. And. Then. We had this project we've just. Enough process, of doing we. Finished the first year year of it and in June last June, and, let me show you just a little video of that experience. Today. You start, going over just some of the basics, how do you add objects, how to manipulate them. Whoa is that like. So, realistic. Brian. What would you think. So, you want to build some worlds. Oh. Precious. Daughter it'll, be worth right. You. Can build things and you. Can practice. Some creativity, levels, like if you want to be an engineer, you can practice. Doing that. Like. Contacts, or something, yeah, better like this little, tiny contact, lens that you can just pop and do your eyes. Okay. These, were sixth, graders 1112. Years old they. Had to learn unity. And. In. Order to do this and they were they, were divided into four groups and they, needed to build content, that taught gravity. Scale. Light. And. Momentum. To. Other sixth graders and so. We had about, twenty of them you notice there's some older kids there those are my students, from here we. Had about twelve fifteen u-dub, engineering. Students, that were actually, are being mentors of those kids of course there were role models they, sort of fell in love with each other the old kids - the young kids and the young kids of the old kids now. We're actually this, was an after-school program last. Year this year or in the classroom. We're. Actually students. Every day are doing. VR in. The classroom, at the Robert Eagle staff middle school here. In North Seattle. So. I'm gonna stop there and, I. Have. Another whole lecture, by the way on your a few, that. I'm cutting out of here but, I thought it'd be good to have some time for questions. Question. Nine endless. You. Showed so, many different applications of the are and. If. Anyone, of us went on Amazon we'd, see like say that HTC vive it's five, hundred dollars or something the newest the. Newest most future greatest, VR and the future is probably gonna cost even more money and. Right. Now the cheapest, is two hundred dollars you give by, windows. Fix reality, headset, from several different companies. Are. One knows do you expect, it to be part of everyday life because a lot of the things you showed was specialized. Application, you aren't gonna have, a. House, on fire and a firefighter using, it every single day you. Don't go to the dentist every day you. Like. Even now it's I've. Gone through so, much I've gone to COC program and all that and I have access to the VR lab not. Very many people do it's, right, now it still feels very. Specialized. Like I guess. What I really want to ask you ever expected, to reach, a point where it's become part of everyday life. Do. Everybody hear the question. Great. Question, I, believe. That I agree. With you I mean it's cheap compared, to what it calls used to cost us to do this but. It's. Really to, the point now where it's getting interesting.
Because. The. Price tag is going down as you know with. Some of the new gear I mean with the the. Oculus. Go, and. Now, with oculus, quest and with the vive focus, and all these kind of things I think. The manufacturers, are realizing, you know that they're. Shooting themselves in the foot if they think people are going to spend you, know 1500 bucks for, this especially consumers. So. What I think was going to kick in for a while we, talked about this before about. Enterprise. I think. We're going to see a growth, now the inner fire enterprise, applications. Sort of gonna carry the ball and help us develop. The technologies, where with the price point goes down even further then. Those reasons why we can't mint these things you. Know there's nothing really, there that, ultimately, has to cost a lot of money if there's just a bag of parts you know that. Cause the. Build costs to build, is. Really. More expensive. Than the parts. So. I think. We will have. The. Capability. To have this these systems, that. Are like, cell phones and I. Mean think, about what happened, here, not. Many people used to be able afford these things. Now. The price, came way down now they're going back up again of course but. But. Th