GPG Outbrief 16: Small Circulator Pumps
Hello. Everyone my. Name is Andrea Silvestri, and on behalf of GSA, center for emerging building technologies, and the GPG program I'd like to welcome you to today's webinar on, small circulator, pumps with automated control. Before. We get started I want to go over a few webinar. Logistics. Today's. Webinar is based on a report by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, you. Can find the full report as well as a four-page report, summary, and a one-page, infographic, at gsa.gov, slash. GPG. Today's webinar will be recorded recordings. And slides, for all webinars, are available on the JSA that got that gov website, you. Should also receive an email next, week with a link to the recording, as well as answers to some of the top QA. GPG. Webinars, are presented, monthly, our. Upcoming November webinar. Will be on advanced, lighting controls, with LED this. Report will be released shortly and provides guidance on where advanced lighting controls, can be best applied. December's. Webinar will present findings from three different alternative, water treatment, reports that will be released in November, GPG, has looked at five different technologies. Now and found that four out of the five maintained. Water quality, while at the same time reducing, water use this. Webinar will discuss the findings and provide deployment. Recommendations. All, GPG webinars, offer continuing, education credits to. Receive credit complete, the post webinar survey if. You did not receive a copy, of the survey please contact Michael, Hopson. Broadcasts, will be listen only you may submit questions by using the chat box on the right side of your screen you. Do not need to wait until the Q&A session, to submit your questions in fact we encourage you to submit questions throughout the presentation now. I'd. Like to introduce Jay fine who is the project manager, for the circulator, pump evaluation. Andrea and hi everybody. Today. Hopefully. We're going to be able to answer, all of your questions. Throughout the presentation and. Give you a lot of great information on. The screen right now you see my, contact. Information, so, hopefully in the future if there's an opportunity where you're looking to install one of these technologies, and you're looking for some more information I'm, the one you can contact and I'm happy to either answer your questions or I can get you to contact the right people go, ahead next slide please. Okay. So. Today here's our agenda for this webinar the. The first thing is you're going to get a five minute introduction for me which I would say I've already started, when. I'm done with that you're, gonna hear from Jessie Dean who's with the Department, of Energy's National Renewable, Energy Laboratory, or, NREL, and he's, going to tell you about the evaluation we did in the results, of this. Evaluation of, a small circulator, pumps with automated controls and. Then after that you're gonna hear from Tyler Cooper who's with GSA's, region eight which, is in Denver, which is where this evaluation, took place and, he's going to give you what we call on-the-ground, feedback. Which is really if you think about it kind of like the owner, or user perspective, on this so, I'll tell you a little bit about the installation if, there were an EM issues and then if you were going to put one of these pumps in kind of what you could expect and, then after that we're going to leave, plenty of time for questions, and answers and, just to reiterate what Andre I already told you is that we are not going to unmute you we do not want to either hear everybody eating potato, chips for 20 minutes while we're going through this so any, questions, you have you need to put them into the chat box and we'll capture those and then we'll go through those and present those for you and, also encourage.
You To put. In those questions as they come up so if you hear something and you're thinking of it go ahead and pop it into that chat box press alright, next load please. About the program that I work in which is called emerging building technologies, and within that, there are two distinct, programs one, is called GSA, proving grounds, and, since that's a lot of words to say we give that an acronym which is GPG, and, what happens in GPG is companies. Come up with technologies. That. Could, potentially provide, some financial benefit, to GSA, and those are things that, that. Benefit, comes from, reduction. In some, type of natural resource which, is usually. Energy. Or electricity. They, give that technology, to GSA we take it and we put it into a real operating, GSA. Facility, and then, we bring in that Department of Energy as kind of a third-party evaluator. And we take a look and see if that technology, does. Provide the performance that they claim and, if, it could have some benefits for GSA, and so that's what you're going to hear about today the, the result of one of those GPG, evaluations. The. Next thing that we do is called pilots, portfolio, or p2p, and that's. Our group's effort, to support the deployment, of those proven, technologies. Through our GSA they're, trying to get those things and once, we know that they're good and that they have value trying. To get those installed in other GSA, buildings, so. Combining those two programs together those, are things that enable GSA, to make sound investment, decisions, and next generation building technologies, based. On their real-world performance. Okay. Next slide please. Right so today you're going to hear about small, circulator. Pumps with automated, controls, so. This. Is. This. Is an evaluation that took place as I mentioned at the Denver Denver federal federal, Center and there. Are two applications of, this one is in a domestic hot water application. And the other one is in an air handler unit and to, understand, the application think, about at home when, you go, take a shower you turn on the water the. First thing that comes out of your showerhead is cold, water and that's, because their, water, is in the pipe that goes from your showerhead all the way back to your hot water heater has. To clear before you get to that hot water if. You think about what, happens in a big commercial or Federal Building there's. Like that could be a long run from where that source. Is all, the way to where the. Discharge is, so, what typically happens is, they put in a circulator. Line which is which, has hot, water circulating. And that, circulation, takes place with a pump that moves that water through the line. Typically. Those. Pumps, are, constant. Speed they're, just on and, they run all the time it's. Estimated that there's about 30 million of those types, of pumps throughout the United States, so. What we evaluated. Was a technology. That does two things to improve on that constant, speed pump one is that, it has a variable speed and. The second thing is that has sensors, and logic, that are built-in that. Tell it when it should run faster, run slower, shut off all those types of things so that it can improve the performance and the energy consumption of the pumps.
Next. Slide please. All right so I'm going to go ahead and turn this over to people who can tell you more about the details of what we did and what we found so, our first presenter is, Jesse Dean and as I mentioned Jesse works for NREL he's, been there for 11 years, he has a BS in mechanical, engineering from Colorado, State University. And he has a master's in civil engineering from, building systems program at the University of Colorado and. Jesse manages, the support that that GSA proving. Ground gets from NREL and he also manages. Support. That that NREL. Provides to a similar program at DoD called environmental, security technologies, certification. Program or es TCP. On. This project, jesse, was the principal, investigator. So, Jesse if you go ahead and make sure that you're unmuted I'm going to go ahead and turn this over to you, okay. Yeah. Thank You Jay and thanks everyone for taking. The time to join us today. Okay, next thing. Really quickly we're going to kind of walk through the opportunity. For. These small circulator, pump. As. Jay mentioned there's, about 30 million of them that, are estimated to be in operation in, the United States. The. Estimated. Energy efficiency, gains from replacing, those I would is estimated, at over 50%. And, I think one of the interesting notes, here is that over 90 percent of the currently. Installed circulator. Pumps, are the older. Constant. Volume, pumps. With standard induction, motors. And. We'll kind of get into the details in the next slide of what, a circulator, pump is but I think. At a high level the main takeaway, here is that there's, a very kind of large opportunity, throughout the United States. And. To date only a small number of those you, know have been retrofitted with these high-performance, circulator. Pumps. So if next time. Performance circulator pump the, definition, for a circulator. Pump itself is essentially, a. Small. Pump, that has the motor rotor the, pump impeller and, the support bearings, that are all sealed inside of the pump. Sometimes. You're going to hear these called in-line. Pumps, as the pump planters, are mounted directly to the piping system. As. She noted I think one of those big kind of technological. Advances, or innovations, with this technology is that we're. Moving from kind of an older inefficient. Induction. Motor to a modern. Kind of ECM. Motor. The. ECM, motor itself, has kind of integrated. Power electronics. That allows. Integrated. Speed control, so that the pump can ramp up and down without, having to have a secondary, variable, frequency drive. This. Pump also has a number of kind of pre-programmed. Control. Modes which you'll see there and. It has the ability to do, kind. Of local and remote monitoring. Of. All of the operational, characteristics of, the pump so you're able to monitor things like pump. Power you, know BTUs. Of heat delivered. Supply. Water temperature, pump speed all of those things are actually built, into the internals, of the pump. One thing that I think is important, to note is that the. Energy. Energy. Policy Act of 1992, kind of sets the first efficiency, standards, for motors. But, they did not apply to motors, that are less than one horsepower, and so for, a lot of these pumps including the ones you'll see in our demonstration here. They. Are going to have really, low kind of motor efficiencies. And low power factors. And. So, moving to these kind of modern state-of-the-art. Pumps, tend to have greater energy savings and you'll see and kind of larger commercial. Building applications. These, are applied to motors, that are 2 and 1/2 horsepower or smaller. This. Particular, vendor, has a, number, of control modes that are integrated into the pump, you'll. See this constant, speed constant pressure, proportional. Pressure auto, adapt flow adapt. The. One that, is used for domestic hot water recirculation. Pumps. Is the constant, temperature mode, where. The pump has an internal temperature, sensor in it and you. Typically set that. Return. Water temperature, setpoint to about 10 degrees Fahrenheit. Below the domestic, water tank set point and then. The pump will essentially ramp up and down to meet that setpoint. Temperature I, would. Say some of the other, control. Modes in here like auto adapt and flow adapts are more. Geared. Towards air handling unit application. Okay next time. So, quick comparison, to standard pumps. You. Know the energy savings, come from ten. To twenty percent more efficient, motor. You. Also have a more efficient pump itself so the optimized, impeller, gets ten. To fifteen percent hydraulic. Savings and, then. Really the big savings comes from the built-in control algorithm this. Particular, one also has a built-in nighttime step back feature. And. You can see the savings. Estimates, from the vendor is up to 65%, for. For this particular, pump. Okay my friend. So, in terms of the measurement, verification, that we perform this was at the Denver, federal center.
The. First. Building that was installed in is building 810 where, we did side-by-side. Testing, of two air, handling unit, heating. Coil booster, pumps and. We'll get into the details of all of these on the next few slides here and then. For building 67, we. Retrofitted. Two. Domestic hot water recirculation. Pumps. Okay. So. This graphic is. A, graphic. That essentially, just shows you what the different, kind. Of operating, ranges are for the different models of pumps that this particular manufacturer. Offers, you. Can see even, though they're smaller tune out horsepower, pumps, you do get you. Can have a fairly. Large flow rate up to over 300 gallons, per minute. And. Then you can also see on the left-hand side the, head pressure that the pump is able to provide, when. We started this demonstration, the smallest pump that was manufactured, was the 40 80 that's, listed there. And. Then about halfway through they re-released. The. 32, 132, 60 pumps. And. As you'll see in the next few slides we're testing, these on, kind. Of the smallest pumps, that were available, so. When we started the demo we started with an evaluation of the 40 80 and then about halfway through move to the 30 to 100. One, thing I would know is for domestic hot water recirculation, pumps. Especially, in high-rise, buildings. You're. Essentially, kind of pumping a small amount of fluid up to the top of a facility, and so those typically, tend to be. Dominated. With high head pressure and low flow rates, it's. A very challenging point, on. The pump curve for these pumps to operator, and then. For things, like baseboard. Radiant coils. Or air, humming unit booster pumps or grants or seafoam circulators, a lot. Of times you're, going to have kind. Of higher flow and lower head on those so. For example for the age you booster, pump that we looked at it just a single pump on, a single, air handling unit coil and. It, essentially just kind of boosts the. Flow. Rate through that coil from. The main heating system and so the. Differential, pressure high pressure that has to be offset is just. The. Pressure from that coil so it's the lower head pressure higher flow application. Okay. Next thing. So just, quickly on the results for the domestic, hot water pumps, that we tested, the first, one. Is. Domestic, at Waterfront number one, this. Pump served the first floor and, cafeteria. Of the facility, and then, domestic hot water recirculation. Pump, number two served. Force two through eight. Starting. On the first table there you'll see that the baseline pump was just a quarter horsepower pump, it you. Know the smallest pump, that's manufactured, for. These, applications. Was. Originally retrofitted, with the model 40 80 pump which, the. Sizing, isn't exactly the same but it roughly comes out to about point three seven horsepower. And. Then the, duty point power is essentially, what the the, power draw, from the pump is you, know at the peak flow rate and peak differential, pressure so.
One, Thing that's interesting that you'll see here is, you. Know moving from the baseline pump to the high-performance circulator. Pump. You. Were able to get over a forty four percent energy, savings even, if the pump were to run at 100% speed, all the time, so. Very significant. Energy savings for, this and. You see you, know the low level wire, to water efficiencies. Which. Is. Just a metric of. Pump. Efficiency multiplied. By motor, efficiency, and. Again the reason those are low is because, it's you know higher differential, pressure or, higher head pressure. Combined. With low flow rates but we, had significant, increase in large water efficiency, for the 4080 about. Half way through we. Replaced. The pump with a pump that was more directly. Sized. For the original pump and you. Can see that it almost doubled, the wire to water efficiency, and we're able to get about, a 72, percent energy. Savings at full load so very. Significant. Energy savings even. If the pumps were to run at full load. Similar. Story for the. Domestic. Hot water pump, number two you. Can see very significant. Duty point power reductions. Across the board here. The, same thing with this one where we you, know replaced. It with a model 40 80 and then eventually. Replaced, it with a smaller. One there. The. You, know duty point power savings, for, here was 53 percent for the model 40 80 and then. 74, percent for the other one so again very significant. Energy savings, even. If the pumps were to operate at, full speed there. Okay. So this is a graph that just shows the daily average. Load. Profiles, for the pumps over the monitoring. Period. The. Green, line is what, the baseline comes looks like I, think. You. Know for. Any kind of constant, volume air handling unit or constant, volume pumping system what you'll see is. Essentially. There's just a flat line as. Soon as the pump turns on you know I use same amount of power throughout, its entire operating, profile, this. Is one of the big reasons why. It's. Really important, to kind of move away from constant. Volume air handlers and constant volume pumping, systems is there's. No fluctuation and, power, based. On the actual load of the system. So the gray the gray lines are showing you what the pump, power was for the model 40 80 and, then the blue line shows you what the pump power was for the 30 to 100 again. This is averaged. Over the entire monitoring. Period but essentially. What would happen is the pumps would ramp up in the morning to kind of keep the line once. The lining, has been heated, they kind of just intermittently, turn on and off or. They intermittently, ramp up and down throughout the day as people. Are using domestic, hot water so. In a domestic hot water recirculation. Pump application, they, have the, potential for very significant, energy savings because, they. You. Know are able to run at their lowest speed until, people. Are using the faucet and there's, there's a demand so, as. You can see we had very significant, energy savings for, the domestic hot water comes. Next. So the measured, energy savings that we got for, domestic, hot water pump number one was, 90%. For the forty eighty and ninety six percent for, the model 32 100. For. Domestic hot water pump number two you'll see the energy savings percentages, were really, similar there. The. Total kilowatt, hour of savings, for domestic, hot water pump number two or, roughly. Twice as, high as the other one, and. The reason for that was so the flow rate and the load that that one was serving was about twice as high because.
Again It was pumping you know that domestic hot water fluid. Up to date or the, facility. But, as you can see here we have greater. Energy savings, than we were anticipating on, these. Due. To the pumps being more efficient and then also being able to kind of ramp down during, during their operating trading box. Okay. Next. So, this is a table. That shows you what the economics, look like here. So. I'm just going to kind of go through these, one. By one the. The. Annual energy cost savings is, a combination. Of the energy, cost savings and the estimated, demand savings, they. Have a kind of complicated. Time of use rate here so we did try to estimate. You. Know what the demand and energy savings were, given. That they operated, continuously during. The middle of the day we just assumed that you know the demand. Savings are coincident, with the peak savings their, one. Thing to note though is that the annual O&M, savings was $75. A year and. The on-site staff were, estimating, that. Those. Savings come, from not having to grease the bearings or replace the pump seals. So, the, onm savings for these small clumps are very significant, you know as much or more than the energy savings, and. Then. We. Looked. At the economics, in terms of an end of life replacement. So you. Know, assuming. That you have a domestic hot water pump that is failed and we're. Putting in a new one these, are roughly, five hundred seventy five dollars more expensive than. The. Market standard pump. So. In those cases the, simple, payback you can see is three to four years so. Very attractive, kind of payback for, for both applications are. Okay next time. So. The next one that we looked at was the air, handling unit evaluation. This, one was different than the other one in that we tried to essentially. Find two air handling units that were as identical, as possible. And. So. We have an air handling unit number 17, and 19 and, building East and. Where. We did side-by-side, testing, so rather than doing before and after testing we just monitored, these in parallel. There. Was a pretty, big difference though and the approach I one, of the things was the air handling unit 17, pump. Had failed prior to starting, the demo and, so. We had to replace the, baseline, pump with. A. Kind, of a modern, market, standard, pump. By Grundfos, which. Ended up being a lot more efficient, and, you. Know an older 10 to 15-year pump that you would see in that application and, so. This is more of an analysis, of what is a new market standard pump look like versus, a, new. High performance circulator. Pump. So. For air handler number 19 we, we. Put in the high. Performance circulator, pump and then we also closed off the bypass valve on, the three-way valve there. The. Bypass, valve essentially. For. Constant, volume systems. Allows, the. Water to bypass, the heating coil when. The, valve starts to close down and so. You, need to kind of close that for variable. Speed applications. So that you're able to just. Directly, modulate, the flow that's going through those. Okay. So. The air handling unit demonstration. Was. A little more complicated than the other one, when. We first selected, these both, air handlers were operating, for about 20 hours per day. But. The. Air handling unit 19 was. Not meeting this earth air temperature, setpoint and that was not not. Kind of responding, to the control mode signals, correctly. And, it. Was determined that the facility, needed to be retro commissioned, and so they. Did a kind of a full retro commissioning of the entire facility, which. Delayed, the demo by about, a year, and. Then after. The facility, was commissioned. The. Air handling unit number 19. Was. Only operating, very intermittently. It, was serving an internal, zone within the building and so it would essentially kind of turn on for a couple hours in the morning that keeps his own up then.
The Zone would switch over to cooling mode and the pump would turn off all day and then it would run for a couple hours at night. So. It was a, challenging. I think. Demonstration. From that perspective because we had a number of changes that happened as we were going along here but I think, are definitely, kind of good lessons, learned for future projects. So, the way we estimated the savings, was we, just. Since. They're having a tonight 17. Runs at. A constant power while operating we compared, its energy usage to air handler, 19. Next. Thing. The, mistress energy savings, from the two I. Think. It's important, to note if you look at the first line the max power is. Just. Slightly lower, for the high-performance, circulator, pump, if. You remember in the domestic hot water ones we went over we saw you. Know similar from 44, to 73, percent reductions. And peak power. When. We compare this to an older pump. When. You're comparing it to a kind, of new market, standard pump it's very. Little. Energy savings, at a peak power I think. It's only about 7%. And. So really the savings, that are achieved or when. The pump is allowed to kind of ramp up and down to, meet the load, and. In this case since. The pump only ran for a few hours a day it, ran. At a higher speed than the domestic hot water pumps, so. You'll see that we got a 35%. On peak savings, 24%. Off-peak savings with. A 25, point 7 percent, overall. Savings. Going. Next. So. On the economics, of this one the first line just. Kind of walks through what the. Annual. Cost savings were, again. They're extremely. Low on the energy cost savings because the, pump, really doesn't doesn't run much. But. Assuming, the O&M savings, for this we still have a good simple payback. The. Incremental, cost is also lower because. For. Domestic. A lot of recirculation, pump applications, you have to have a stainless steel pump. And. For. Heating, hot water you can use the cast iron pump so it's the cheaper cheaper, pump. We. Did, run another scenario where we were looking at what, the energy. Savings would have been, assuming. That it would have ran closer, to the twenty hours a day like it did when we first looked, at it, and. Then also assuming. That the older. Pump. That had failed was still in there so again. I think if you're comparing this to an old market, standard pump that's in the end of its lifetime you should anticipate getting, good, savings. If. You do have a newer. Pump. That's just a couple of years old again your, savings are primarily going to come down to the variable speaking the operation. Okay next time. So, one of the main benefits for, these pumps. Is they, do have, pre-programmed. Control modes, that are built into them. The. Constant, return water temperature, is, a nice feature, where. Essentially, you're, only using the on/off from, the building automation system, control. We. Ended up using it just a 0 to 10 volt control, for, the heating, pump the. Reason for that was the auto adapts mode does, not work well if the pump is oversized, and operating on the lower end of it some curve but again. You can use the internal, control mode to the pumps and a. Big benefit. From being able to do that is you don't have to add a number of points to the BAS which can be more. Expensive than the pumps themselves. So. Having those internal control modes I think is very valuable and, allows you to just typically use kind of an on/off or one, additional point. From. The building automation system, instead of having to add a bunch of point then as. Noted, before for, a standard pump you would also have to add a variable frequency drive, in or a number of other things so having. All of this integrated into the pump provides. A lot of value in terms, of the cost effectiveness of it. Okay, nice. So. The lessons learned that we have I think we covered these already, you. Know for any. Eating. Or chilled water or, rating based applications. You. Do need to make sure that if they have three-way, valve, that. You're either converting, that to a two-way valve or closing, off the bypass so, that it's allowed to operate as a variable flow system. And. As we noted on the last one bas, integration, costs can greatly increase, the overall price.
To. The point where those could be more expensive than the pumps themselves, if all the PAS points were integrated. Okay, next thing. Another. Important. Point I think that's challenging, for these smaller circulator, pumps, is they typically don't have differential, pressure points, or, ports. And, so you're not able to actually. Kind. Of look up on the pump curve exactly, where the pump is operating and. You're. Really, just kind of looking at a what size pump is currently installed, we. Do have, a couple of. Approaches. That could be taken to making sure that you're. Correctly, sizing, the pump, I. Would. Say for a lot of these you're probably going to see that the existing, pump is oversized, and, I. Would. Work with the manufacturer. To kind of help you write size that pump. So. As you can see for the domestic hot water ones even though we had good energy saving. We. Got better savings and better economics, by right sizing, those so it. Is tricky with these, but. Just something to look at there. Okay so. I think that's how I have oh no. One more so. In terms of deployment recommendations. I would, say, domestica, what a recirculation, pumps, are. Should. Be targeted, with. As little as 40 hours a week of operation and low electric, rate. The, heating. And chilled water pumps. You, know you want to look at systems. That operate more than 10 hours a day. Those, can be challenging, because if your cooling, system only, runs for four months per year, it. Has a lot less operation, than a domestic hot water pump, that's running all year long so just kind of need to look at you know how many hours per year, is it running, for. These. Little pumps that serve multiple coils. You, should also have better savings, so. If I have a circulator, pump that serves let's, say six radiant, baseboard, heating coils. I'm. Gonna have a larger. Fluctuation. In the flow rate, and. I'm going to need to keep that pump on you know during, the operating, hours to meet those loads and so, I would. Look for applications where, a single, pump serves multiple heating, your cooling coil. And. Then we're also estimating, that the circulator, pumps could be a good fit for ground. Source ecosystems. Know him. All. Right with that I'll turn it back over to GSA. All right great thanks Jesse alright, so let me introduce our, next presenters Tyler, Cooper Tyler's. With GSA, he's in region. 8 which is Denver. Tyler's, a supervisory. Energy project, manager and he has a degree mechanical, engineering, ty, was on our project team from. The onset and he's. What I would call the conduit kind of between the, evaluation. Team and the local operations, and maintenance staff, so. He gives kind of a unique perspective of he understands, both what, we were trying to do from an evaluation standpoint. And also taking, a look at what happened on the ground and and at the location where they died where the evaluation took, place and operations. And maintenance staff that was dealing with it so, tau is going to give you what we call on-the-ground. Feedback. About the project, so Tyler, if you're unmuted, I'm going to go ahead and let you take it over. Thanks. Day. Something, unexplained. So. I'm kind, of like, sir knots as far as the installation of these pumps goes right, away like very, simple, installation is, the length of life replacement. The. Pumps come with the necessary flange, kits so pretty. Much remove, the existing confidently. I've been possible integrate, right into the existing system assume. You've met all your sizing constraints. Within. Both of our applications, we were able to use the existing bas, controls, which in this case was just on-off. Signal coming from the BAS. One. Of the things that was, convenient with these boxes they, have easily swapped warlock communication, cards so for the purpose of this study we. Used Modbus. Cards to send, and relative respective, data that they needed for the internal, pump sensors. And. Then once that initial, data, evaluation, was completed, with NREL we, were able to pull off those martha's cards and then switch switch. And new bacnet cards to, allow, that integration, into RBS, and pull those points out of the system. Next. Slide. So. Gently. Kind of alluded to already all. Of the new. Pump contains all the internal, controls that are, required so. You can time this is kind of a representative, example, of that display, you. Can take the control, mode and then you get live feedback from the prophets do the Asheville, power it's consuming, and the.
Differential, Add pressure that, is reading at the same time on, as, well as the all, the other sensors that are built into the pump, so. Within that you have the ability to go through and change those control modes as necessary. And kind of tune that process, to your application, based. On what you can get the best performance list. One. Of the things that, is. Available with these grandpa's pumps. That we didn't test was. Smartphone, application, and, this. Is pretty, much allows you to go through and then you have remote control but. We have IT constraints, with that which divideth wasn't tested, for this study. Nextslide. So. Kind. Of one things we pointed out is with the list. Of sensors and Diagnostics, built into the pump does. Allow for you to go through and get real-time feedback, from these pumps do, you go through. Like. We kind of said do a yearly, basis, with. Reviewing the power at this point but, clean. Go through and check that power usage to see if you are having any issues with your system, whether, it be in the domestic hot water and, different sorts of their applications, kind of see how those pumps are responding, if you are having any packages, or. Anything that would be lower in their overall system performance at, that point, and. The other piece we talked about is you also have the reduced maintenance, not. Having to change those seals. And bearings on those pumps. Huh, next bye. So. Some. Issues we ran into during, this project that, just did to consider in the future. For. The air, handler, applications. The. Flow. Direction on the pipes wasn't labeled so, when the onm staff initially went in installed one. Of the pumps they, installed that pop backwards, so. That was kind of something that had to go, be me we, had to go back and rectify. And make sure that was flowing, correctly. The, other piece that Jesse mentioned was the retro commissioning so. We had a number of. Points. That were either programmed, in correctly in our bas more, bad sequences, that were in place so. That's what - incorrect. Operations, for the system so once we had those fixed, and the entire BES is reprogrammed, we were seeing the appropriate, response from the air, handlers, and the surge of their pots that were going on. As far as issues with the pumps themselves. The. Initial. 3100. Pump that we had installed we, had to replace that Modbus, cards, in that pump it, wasn't responding correctly. Giving. Us giving, us the data out of that. The. Power factor we did see a significant, improvement from, the 3100, to 4280 tough as well especially. At lower speeds and. Then kind of a thing I mentioned on the last slide is right. Now the, mobile. Access to the control. Application is authorized, to use dc/dt, at, this point. Nextslide. So. Recommendation. At this point is, evaluating. These at the end of life when we are replacing those smaller pumps. And. Kind. Of looking at those runtime hours in, the case of most, of these applications we. Had the pumps scheduled on with the BES already so, we're. Only seeing those savings during operating hours but. We are seeing increased, control that, we weren't getting prior, to installing, these pumps. Like. In the case of the air handlers because. It was. Internal. Load and they were secondary, pumps the. Other piece we found was that the main water, pumps from the building were able to meet a lot of that load so. It's kind of evaluating, the existing, conditions, that you are seeing to make sure we are getting out of run time for the pumps when. We are evaluating, these opportunities. And then the other piece that. Jesse. Mentioned is the dudes. One. Of the huge reasons we, have savings with these pumps is the, varying. Load that exists in the building so in the case of the domestic. Hot water pumps, we. Were able to control. Based on the building load looking. At the returned water temperature, that was going being. Returned to the system and get. Real-time feedback, to the pumps as, far as what's going on in the building and then post will be able to travel back the pumps and, see those energy savings. And. That's. All I have so that'll pass it back to Jay and then we'll start the question and answer session. Great. Thanks Tyler, okay. So I'm going to do is we've, captured the questions that you guys have put into the chat box I'm going to run through them and we'll provide answers Jesse. And Tyler if you just be on the ready we're gonna need your assistance and, answering some of these so.
The First question was about how, you get CL Keaney or how you get continuing, education, unit credits for this it's. Very simple after this if you were enrolled you're going to get a request to do a survey, if you complete that survey you're, going to get a response. That, will have include, a, certificate. That shows that you attended. Right. And then the next question we had was have, there been any issues with short cycling or DP spikes leading the water hammer due to speed changes, that have been insufficient. To, accommodate, dramatic, fluctuations in, demand Jessie. I think you'd be a good one to take that honesty. Yeah. So, we didn't observe any water hammering, effects with. These. Yeah, I'm not sure kind, of globally how big of an issue that will be but. Again. They do kind, of provide. A minimum, flow while they're operating, and then the pumps will ramp up and down to meet that flow. So. I would say it's similar to you, know how a variable-speed, pump runs in a you know a chilled water plant or a heating, plant. But. We didn't experience any kind of water hammering, in this one. Thanks Jesse and. Next question was what is the incremental cost, of the pump include, I'm, gonna try to take a shot at this and then Justin, you can add in if I miss anything the. One is that includes the actual, differential. And price of the actual pump itself the other thing that's included, in that is the. Additional, amount of time that's expected for labor to install that, pump it was estimated to be an additional two hours of labor and a, lot of that is not, related to actually hooking up the pump itself but there's some additional programming, that had to be done on those pumps. It was also expected, that that 2 hours could be reduced over time because. As. People learn how to do, that programming the speed that that, that can be accomplished, could actually be increased, and that it may not take as much time to do that but, in terms of our analysis, we use 2 hours of additional labor. Jessie. Anything besides, that you want to add, no. Ok. Great all. Right the next question was please, explain, or describe the domestic, hot water pump, control system, how's, the pump controlled is the pump controlled by hot water use, or. Demand and hot water recirculating. Temperature, describe. The demand, spencer's devices, and temperature sensors that control the pump describe. What controls, the pump speed what. Sensors are used to control pump speed that's. A lot of stuff but Jessie, I think you could probably take all that if you need me to break it up let me know and I can come back ok. Yeah. So for the domestic hot water recirculation. Systems. There's a temperature. Sensor, that internal. To the pump. And. So, during. That set up process that Jay mentioned. Essentially. Was with the Denver federal center staff did was look at the, domestic, hot water, tank. Setpoint temperature and, then. Programmed, the. The. Temperature, setpoint that's, in the domestic hot water pump, to be 10 degrees below that that's kind. Of the industry standard rule, of thumb on how, to do that programming. But. Essentially you're just going to determine what, is an appropriate set, point temperature that, you want the return from. The domestic, hot water recirculation, line, to be set. And then, the pump itself, just, automatically. Ramps, up and down to, maintain, that, so. If the temperatures coming back too low then the pump ramps up until.
A Table to meet that temperature, and then will wrap, itself back down. So. The only. Control. That really, needs. To happen is. The. Building. Owner. Inputting. The returned, water temperature, setpoint and, then, also selecting. That control, mode from the, pump. There. They, great alright, the next question is did. The study look at the scenario where, a constant speed pump was turned off at night using a simple timer this. Might be a way to achieve a large portion of the savings without having to add the advance pumps, with their marginal call. Listen, you might tackle that one. No I. Think his tailor said they were already pretty aggressive, in the way they were scheduling, everything. The. Domestic hot water pumps, were on a predefined, building, schedule. The. Air handling unit, pumps were set up to only turn on if, there. Was a call for a load and so. They. Were not on a schedule, and. And, that's kind of why the air handling unit 19, was. Was off most of the day was they already had a really, aggressive. Schedule. A. Really. Aggressive control, sequence applied, to those air handler pumps to make sure they're only operating, while they were running, again. I think if it's providing. Heating, to a multiple. Heating, coils either air handlers or, Iranian. Baseboard, heaters. You're. Not able to do that you do have to keep them on a schedule. But, in this case they did, that. The. Pump though does have the nighttime side back feature in it so. You. Know for some reason if it's if it's there's no connection to a building automation system. What. You can do is just set up the nighttime. Setback internal. To the pump itself. And. It. Would turn itself off so you could kind of do. The. Bas, scheduling. With with just the pump in that case. Our. Great thanks, Jesse you actually answered another question which was does the internal, Punk program and accommodate on-off scheduling, for unoccupied times, I guess you can't actually do that at the at the pump itself, but, the next question is in. Germany we find usually the pumps are over - mentioned by a factor of two did. You also check the dimensioning, of the pumps before exchanging them so you did address this some Jesse in the presentation, is there anything else you want to add.
No. I mean. Yeah. I would, say that you, know most, engineers, are going to be applying a safety factor to, their designs and. You. Know I was pretty safe to assume that their their oversized. By. Talking to the manufacturer, they do provide. Kind. Of on-the-ground analysis. To help people size these pumps correctly. And. So, again I think whichever. Manufacturer, you're deciding, to go with I would meet. With them and kind of do a run-through of your your pumps, and see if they can help you with the sizing, I. Would. Also say that the manufacturer, provided feedback that about 50%, of the time even. If they are the pumps are known to be oversized, the client still puts. In the same size pump. So. You, know I think those. Were kind of some of the major lessons learned here and we tried to do our best to address those but there's, always going to be a challenge. With. These smaller circulator, pumps. Great. How, did we calculate the O&M savings just, you won't talk about that. Yeah. We. Just. Met with Tyler's. Team and they have provided guidance, to us on those. So. Tyler's, group is the ones who kind of gave us the. Installation. Costs that, we should expect from a standard pump and then again. These are kind of site-specific. Onm. Costs based on you. Know the onm that Tyler's team does and the. Work that they were doing so, I would, say that was you, know some, of the numbers that you'll see presented in the report are. Very. Specific, to the site and you, know could be different at different sites, depending on the O&M, protocols that are used and. Yeah. As. Far as the onin, cost savings we pretty much sense that we're getting this much time savings, from not having to grease those bearings, replacing seals and then, just going off of our arrow and mechanic rate for that contract. And. Then with the installation, of these pumps is the same piece where we just went through our own contract, oh and, I'm contractor, and had them complete that work and I'm. Going off that hourly, mechanic right there for. The installments um. A great. Perfect all. Right the next question is looking, at the first slide of Tyler the piping seems to be very small, dimensioned, for the size of the pump it's. More a comment than a question but Tyler or Jessie do you have any any, comments. Or response to that. Yeah, let me start in and Tyler can jump in on this one I. Think. Again I mean. Well. I was trying to see if this is doméstica water-pump number one or two. This, was domestic hot water pump number two. But. We have to keep in mind that, these are the smallest pumps, that are manufactured. For. Commercial building. Applications, you don't get any smaller than kind of 1/4 or 1/2 horsepower, and. You. Know the water lines are running in that scenario that I mentioned, where you have a very small water line very. High head pressure and very low flow rate on those. So. I think the reasons you know the pumps look big is just. Because. You. Know these these are kind of some of the smaller pumping, applications, in the buildings. Tyler. You have anything out of that. No. I think Jessie adequately covered it okay. Great. Next question this study appeared to look only at the electrical, energy used by the pumps where the effects of the changing, pump speed on the thermal, energy studied. That's. A good one for you Jessie yes. We definitely looked at that. So. In the report we have a performance, criteria, or. There's. Let's. Call them we. Have a performance objectives, table that's in the report that outlines all the performance, objectives, that we wanted to hit. The. Performance. Objective, related, to this is essentially, that the systems. Are able to meet the thermal load that they're serving. And, so, we did. Install. A number of additional sensors to track the returned water temperature, on. The domestic hot water side, to make sure that it was meeting that returned water temperature, setpoint. For. The air handling units, or metric was, ensuring. That we were still able to meet the, discharger, temperature, setpoint. Which. Was one of the one, of the drivers for the retro-commissioning was, that again.
When We. First got started neither. The, baseline, or the other pump were meeting to start here temperature setpoint and there was a number of known issues, with some of the control sequences. But. Once the. Retro-commissioning. Had, happened. The, pumps, started responding correctly to, the, control mode and. They. Were able to meet the discharge air temperature, set points and we. Do have kind of those graphs and that analysis, is in the report there. A great, next question is what, percentage of pump control and monitoring, did you do directly, at the pump versus. In the BAS. Tyler. You want to take a shot at that one yeah. As. Far as the pump control for both applications we. Use the. We. Use the command signal from the BAS as far as trying that pumps on and off and. Initiating, that and then the rest of the Asheville control mode of the pump we've relied entirely on the internal controls for that application, so. As. Far as the monitoring goes we had secondary, sensors that we installed from. NREL, that, we compared the internal sensors on the pump and then, following, the completion of the study, portion, of a project we were able to, integrate. Those pumps into the BES and then at that point on. Package those monitoring. Points and, not using those form control so much in BS but just from the on joint monitoring performance template. Good. Answer thank you all. Right just. A couple more guys so what's. A good return temp for domestic, hot water, Jesse. You want to tackle that. Yeah. I think it depends on the, building, and what the setpoint, temperature is on the tank. So. For. Example if your tank is heating, the water to 120, degrees. The. Returned setpoint. Is going to be somewhere in kind of the 110, you. Know one 12 or 15 range. Great. And then the last question that we have, is, how does, a pump internal temperature sensor control the pump speed do. The pump internal controls contain, programming. That allows the pump speed to be varied, based, on the domestic, water return temperature. Jessie. That's probably one you could tackle. Yeah, I mean I'm not sure exactly. The. Specifics of how the manufacturer. Is setting that up. Again. Those are those are kind of. Sequences. And programs that are built into the pump itself regarding, kind of the ramp rate and, how, fast or slow it responds, to those systems. Or. To those control. Point. Changes, we. Didn't, get. In and kind of change any of that or look at that we again we just kind of you know set the set point and then let the pump run. Like it normally does there. The. Great. I'm, gonna go ahead and turn back Andre before I do that though I just, want to take a second and thank both Jessie and Tyler for, putting. Together a presentation and, taking the time to join us today and do this yes, both did a fantastic job thank you for your help okay, Andre I'm going to turn it back to you so you can close this out. Thanks. Today and thanks, thanks, again Jesse and Tyler and for, all the participants, for all your great questions so. As we mentioned at the beginning you. Should be receiving a short survey, in your email it. Was in about 15 minutes of the conclusion, of this webinar and, by completing, that you can request continuing, education, credit if you don't receive the survey please reach out to my calling, and. Thank. You again and we look forward to seeing, you at the next webinar in, November. Thank. You.