Frances West: "Human Centric Technology - Its Impact on the Future of Society" | Talks at Google
I'm. Delighted, to welcome you to the podium Frances. West. Good. Morning. I. Want. To thank. Sarah for that introduction. I also, know Sarah from the past and it's. Great to see a a, collie and. At. Google and that this is a very. Exciting. Day for me personally like. Sarah. Said I spent, quite, a few years in IBM, and my. Last job was IBM, chief SSP officer. But, now I have, my own consulting, company because. My. Last job actually. Was probably the most meaningful job, I ever had at IBM, I I. Came, to this topic, about. Human. Centric. Technology. Impact, on such a future Society. In. My last job because I. Spent. My entire years, in IBM, in the first 2/3, of my lives really. Learning about technology. Selling. Technology and market, technology and. It's. Not until my last job in IBM research where my organization, was, located. That. I realized, this. Fundamental. Concept of. Diversity. Really. Brings, disruptive. Innovation, and. Many of you. In. This. Audience or, outside. In this tech community, know. That the, topic of inclusion, is a, very top very, big topic right and. But. When it comes down to it what, I realized, is that. Inclusion. In, many cases, at, least in today's environment, a, lot of time is cast as more of an HR, a human, resource. Initiative. And a. Lot of people talk about inclusion. As a. Kind, of consist. What we call the constituency, topic, you know gender race. And. So on or religion. But. The way I look at diversity is, that it really brings. To, bear the, heart of innovation. And. Let, me just give you a little bit of a history of by myself, and. Give. You a little bit of a journey of my personal. Kind of growth in, this, area and they share with you why I believe that, diversity. Is the court of it disrupting innovation, I, was. In, the United States three years, with. The kind of broken English I went. To, a campus. Interview in Lexington. Lexington. Kentucky, with. A manager, by the name of Frank fritter Cerf just. Based on that name you can tell that it's kind. Of a German descent. Name. And. At. That time I only had. Waitressing. In a Chinese restaurant as, my experience. I, sit, down in front of this, Frankish. Frankfurter. Store manager for IBM, and gave. Him what, I thought. My, Chinese waitressing. Job. Will. Bring to my, understanding, of customer service, at. The end of a one-hour interview, he said to me Francis, oh then he asked me the very crucial question, do, you have a green card or permanent. Residency, I'm like no. I don't but. I am, going to marry what, my brother called a foreign devil oh by. The way that's. Why I have a last name or West. Far. From being we east. So, I said to him I'm, gonna get a I'm. Gonna marry a foreign devil I didn't say that I I'm gonna marry, American. I'm gonna get my citizenship. And then. So he said great. Francis go, get married have. A nice honeymoon you have a job with IBM. So. This gentleman, Frank freed restorff, was. The first person in my life that. Really practiced. What I call authentic, inclusion, in, the, sense that, I. Hardly. Know English I didn't. Have a green card and yet. He believed, in me of what, I could become I didn't, even know what I could do at that time anyway. That's how I started, IBM, career. In. The next 20-some, years. I helped. IBM so sell, mainframe, for, those of you who don't know what mainframe is anybody. Watched the. The. Movie hidden figures. Okay. That's a mainframe we. Worked on, technology. To put people on the moon, we. Were down technology. Building the American airline. Sabre. System, which you still used today for airline. Reservation, we. Build a system for social security administration. So. At that time the, technology. Was. All about. Putting. What we call the infrastructure. System, or business, system, to be more effective, to be more efficient, and I, remember, back then the. Key word as a systems, engineer I was trained to think about on behalf of the customer are three key words R as, R, as. Stands, for reliability. Availability. And. Serviceability. So. That, was an era where the computer, is all, about system. Optimization. And. Because. Of that, kind. Of a knowledge and also a, background, I had I actually had the opportunity. To. Be the first wave of IBM, ears to go to China, in. The mid-90s and one of my Iowa still say my biggest accomplishment. Was actually, helping, the. Chinese government, to build the China payment, system which is a Federal Reserve equivalent. Of interbank, clearing system so, we're talking about big system. Handling. At. The beginning, of the cheque processing, and then what we call the payment. Infrastructure. So. All these are very exciting, you know, learning. A, profession. A professional, growth and all that and then. I came back from, he's China, assignment, in the, early 2000. I, had.
The Opportunity, to, join IBM research to. Help this organization call. IBM. Human ability, and accessibility, center and frankly. I knew very little about accessibility. How. Many of you, here. Know about accessibility. Okay. So. For those of you who don't know accessibility. In the, technical, world or, the technology, or definition, is about, think. Of it and the ultimate, objective accessibility. Is about digitally inclusion, meaning. You, want to make sure that the technology solution. Or product. Or apps that you put out there that, every, human being on this, planet can, use it not just some, but. All when. I say all I means, people, who are aging or. People. Who has disabilities, the. Disability, can be vision related, could be hearing related could. Be mobile mobility, related, and most. Important, could be cognitive, related, so. Part. Of the job and the mission, of our organization was. To make sure that everything, coming out of IBM. At the, time is as, accessible, as possible first. And foremost to our employees, and then. Won't, because, we want to eat your own dog food once. We make sure that our employee can be productive. Actually. Earlier. You were saying it was its. Equity, engineering. That's. Exactly. The kind of a goal that we're striving for which, is there's, parity, and equity, of everybody. Will come to work and then. We, learned a lot about that, process and then. And. Then was able to help our customer, to become more, accessible so. In. That job I, thought. For, sure that, I would do it for three years, which is kind. Of a track record I had at IBM, at the time. Because. You want to move on you want to get promoted and even. In big company I'm sure you go you, know you want to try different things. To. To widen your experience. Space, little. Did I know that, that became. Started. Out to be a job then. Became a career, and then, become a calling, because. For the first time I realized of. All. The glamour I got, from, selling big systems, to Chinese, government, and and installing. Catkin. System, with Raytheon. Pair. You. Know cannot, compare, to, the satisfaction I, got when. I worked with a person with disabilities, and to see that how he or she can perform at work with.
The Same kind of enthusiasm and, productivity. So. That is the essence, of what. This what, the accessibility, Center, was about and, from. There we. Really let the innovation, why because. On our staff, inside. IBM research, we actually have people with, disabilities we, have blind, engineer, we, have deaf scientists. Innovating. And creating new. Solutions. Because. Every. Single day they. Have to deal with issues. Or challenges, and. In. Many cases, their, perspective. It's. So creative it's, so out of the box thinking, that. It just. Creative. What, we call the disruptive, kind of innovation, so. That, is what I personally, not, only. Saw. And but experienced and. After. Working, in. This capacity. And then became IBM chief ostensibly officer, it it's around 2016. Timeframe, and then we all know around. 2016. Frankly that was the beginning where there's a lot of a talk, about for example the Silicon Valley. Diversity. Issues, right. And. And. Like, I said personally. Because my own journey I had the opportunity to experience, one. Would say because I am at, this point you probably know can tell I am. First-generation. Non-english. Speaking, Chinese. And what and, also a over, age 50, so I kind, of checked the box of every. Inclusion. Criteria. So. Just. Like the State Farm Insurance commercial. We. Know a few because we have seen a few so. From, my personal perspective I, felt like there. Is a tremendous. Amount of. Story. Needs to be told, to. Really put the inclusion. Not just as an HR, kind. Of a. Perspective. It's not just about hiring, but. It's about innovation, and, that. We are at the critical, point in our history, of technology. That. Company. Like Google especially Google. You. Guys are, in the forefront of a technology innovation. Really. Have to think about this topic, very. Very seriously. And, that. You really have the capacity, and also, to, a large extend, your a responsibility. To. Make sure that technology, innovation, from, this point on and going forward has, all human. Needs and all human, wants. Into. Consideration. Now. Why do I say that so. Earlier I talked about in. My. Era. Of, a. Computer, or technology. We, were focusing, on system. Optimization, we're. Focused down like, I said reliability. Service. Availability. And serviceability. But. In the past 10 15 years we all know that the. Technologists. Move from, a system. Optimization. Model, to. A personal. Optimization. Or personal. Experience, model, we. Begin to see the trend especially the. Emergence, of mobile, right. When, mobile came onto the scene I remember. Before mobile, devices. Become prevalent to. Talk about accessibility, was, a very, difficult topic you. Know you go up to a you. Know twenty five-year-old. You, know. College grad you say you need to think about, people. Who are aging, somehow. It just doesn't quite resume, right because they just want to code they want to get things out they want they want fancy. Kind, of a screen, experience, you. Know everything, kind, of a flash. And flying in and all that they, don't think about how. Cognitively. Kind. Of a confusing, it could be for a person with disabilities, or aging. But. When the mobile phone came along you. Know when I start talking to people to say you know what the, font size matters. Often. People right yeah, you. Know when if it's too small for like, size, 11. Or 12 I cannot see on my cell phone, color, contrast when, you stand in the Sun if you don't have enough color contrast you, won't be able to read.
When. You are on the go because mobile, and no ennoble, all the work everybody. To be on the go when. You're at the airport you know when you're listening on that conference call and. There's. A lot of ambient, noise you cannot hear, wouldn't, be nice if you have captioning, so. All sudden, all these fundamental. Accessibility. Or, human. Centric technology, requirement, becomes, universally. Relevant. Because. Every. One of us cavity temporarily, or what, I call situationally. Disabled. So. With. The technology. Coming to what I call the personalized. Experience. And Google. You guys actually lead. Some, of the effort with your Android platform. And also. Your, you, know search engine, affects. Every, single person, on the planet I just saw the news, that Google. Is trying to reenter China market, so. That's another, 1.6. Billion people. 1/4. Of the, of. The, population, on earth oh by. The way do, you know for example I, talked about aging do. You know that China, by, 20. By. 2025. Will have over. 360. Million people, over age 65. That's. The entire population. Of the United things I, was. Just in China in March and, I, was invited to speak as the only, kind. Of outside, speaker. To. The. Chinese. Companies. Like Alibaba, Baidu, and $0.10. On, the topic of accessibility. Now. While. We're trying to talk about accessibility. Today. In the United States, if, you, are progressive, thinking companies. Like. Google, like IBM, in this case Microsoft recently. Have done a lot of working accessibility. Area then, you think about accessibility not. As a compliance. Topic, but. A lot of companies today because. United. States and laticious. Society. And because we have American Disability, Act a, lot. Of technologists. Their first. Experience. With accessibility, is a tie to ad. A section. 508 compliance. How many of you know of the legislation. Of ad a that. Applied, to digital, accessibility. Not. Many let. Me tell you this, is a trend, and this is phenomenon, that's not going to go away so, in the United States if you are, a government. Procurement. Company. Which, I think Google is right if you want to bid federal government, businesslike, Department, for Department. Of Defense or, NASA. Or. Social. Security or, veterans affair. If you, want to be a federal contractor, you, must prove, that your product, is accessible. European. Union just, passed a similar law. China. Has the same procurement, law in the baking's, so. Out of 146. Countries, in the world who signed the UN Convention, on the Rights of people disability. Which, was susceptible, to, 200 six. People. Would tell you this, Human, Rights Convention, of un, its, equivalent. The, importance, it's, equivalent, to the Kyoto. Treaty on the green, movement. United. States actually let and. Effort, of. Human. Rights as we all I think we can agree an. Ad. A American, disability, actually set, the gold standard for. Digital. Accessibility, but. The fact that we're not a member, of UN. Convention. Over. Time is going to erode our leadership, why, do I know that I was very fortunate to represent, the entire IT industry, to, testify in. Front of the US Senate on this particular, topic and it, breaks my heart that, we weren't able to get the United States Congress. We, were six votes, short, in getting, this ratified, as other, 146. Countries, but. That said. The. Digital, Inclusion standards. And Digital, Inclusion future. At. This. Point is still set by the US company like Google, like, Facebook, like, Apple, and that's. One, of the reason. Why. This topic. Is so important. Because. From. This point on we all know that technology is not just system. Optimization. It, affects every. Single person, on this planet and. When I say every single person I mean it I don't mean the 1%, or the 10% I mean, the entire, stack. Including. The base of the pyramid so. In. This, today's, kind, of. Equivalent. Of what I said there, are the, rest for. The mainstream, the main the mainframe computers. Today. We should be talking about and, we are talking about for example. Kind. Of a computer, impact, in the terms of, privacy. Right. Security. Because. These affects, every person and, I, will argue that, accessibility. Should. Be part of that discussion so. Therefore, it's PSA. Privacy. Security, and, accessibility. Because. If, you truly if you believe, that your, solution, whether you are a programmer, your. Engineer. Your designer. Whatever. You're making if you, want that product. Or services. Or solution, or apps. To. Be made available to, every, human being and you. Should have every, human being as your, objective, then, you, have to think human, centric you have to think what. Can I do on, a, day-to-day basis. To, make this a reality a, lot. Of people talk about inclusion, and, they. Will say this, is a topic, the management. You know at the top should. Set. The Sanders, set the leadership.
And. Like. I said for, my experience. Inclusion. Is everybody's. Responsibility, especially. When it comes down to digital, inclusion, to. See if you go around the ask people and say do. You believe that everybody, should be equal, everybody. Will say of course and, if. You go around say do you want your product, to be only available. To some people not all people everybody. Saying no. So. Principally. Everybody, agree, that this is the right thing to do but. When it comes into practice. People. Will say on average believe, me I've heard all kinds of excuses, oh my budget, is is is. Does not allow me to do this or is. Not part of our departments. Priority. So. There. Are all kinds. Of potential. Obstacle. Put in front of you but, on the other hand as an, individual. You. Actually, can make a difference, you can, actually be. The person make, a conscious decision whether. This is an authentic inclusion. Decision, you're going to make as, you. Go about your daily business, so. This, is one of the kind of a principle. Thinking. About. Authentic. Inclusion, that. I would like to kind, of share with you and that at. This. Again in this particular, time, all. Of us you. Know have. This kind of responsibility. Especially. In the technology, area because. Technology, is going to be it's. Not going to be it's already pervasive. In every. Person's, life and can. You imagine if your technology. Has. Kwang-ho. Embedded. You. Know. Discriminatory. Kind, of a feature or function not by design not, by intention, but by lack of attention, that could happen so this. Is really what. We're talking about is that how, can a company like Google and, how can individual. As a Googler, you. Along. With other, technology. Companies. Together. In. Coming, to understand. The, impact, of your behavior, and your action, on a day to day basis, and how. A company. Can, enable, you all to do this and the, final point I want to make is that this. Is a topic, that really, goes beyond, what, we call the inclusion, this. Is a topic, about putting, human first putting, human, in the middle of all, your thinking, and as, you design, as you think about everything, and, you. Know, it's also not a just. An idea, but as an institution. If you're a manager. You. Actually have the capability. To. What I call institutionalize. The thinking when. I was at IBM, we. Actually take this top in and make it a very holistic, in that. We, have design, camps, we, have you know. Development. Agile processes. We. Have. Communication. From our marketing, department involving. This because. This. Has to be a kind, of a central, nucleus. Of, a company's, ethyle, to. Believe in that you as an individual, and also. You as a company, in the technology. For front can, impact a society, and can, also do. The, kind of equity. Computing. Like we were talking about earlier so. This. Is really the foundational. Of the of the thinking and I can share a lot of the kind. Of institutional. Practice, examples. But, I at. This point you know with this audience perhaps, I can, open up for questions, and then we can't have a more of a dialogue instead of me you, know giving. You more of a, kind. Of a. Practice. Perspective, so, any any, question, that you may have. Yes. So. Designing, a product for like the whole spectrum of populations. Is really hard so, to you all right as IBM, have any framework that could help people make, that.
Happen. Well. The we, actually, have what, we call the design language, and thinking, one of the things that I actually wanted to talk about it's, very hard to do accessibility, by itself because, you've separate, that out that seems to be extra, effort so, what. We did is, that, we were with our design, team and got, a lot of the concept, built into the design thinking, I mean, Google must have a standard. Design. Process. Know. When. Your product comes out do you go through. Certain. Kind of, testing. And and and all, that. Okay. Yes and well. Maybe. Over time maybe this is something used to think about right me so what we did is said for, we. Know that har we remember. In. Our case we have hardware developers, we have software developer, who have services, so it's very diverse portfolio. But. What we did is we kind, of create, a functional. Guidance. Think. Of it as a checklist so as any, developer. Go through what we call the concept. Design. A, plan and, design and. Implement. Stage we, have a checklist, for people to, kind. Of use as a guidance, it started, out to be a paper checklist, and then, then. We move on to automated, checklists and now frankly, we're using AI and, based, on what the person's, creating. We. Actually can have AI to give. Prompters, and oh by the way all these are based on standards, right earlier I talked about accessibility, this, is another thing accessibility. It's. Not kind of a liberal, left weighing. Kind. Of philosophy. In the, digital. Technology. Digital inclusion, space, this, is actually, a highly, disciplined and regimented, space in that, we have standards, called, whack, at 2.0, or. It stands for web, accessibility. Accessibility. Guideline. Which, just came out of a w3c. You. Know a world wide web standards, group so, these are published, standards. That remember. Our mentioned 146. Countries, every. Country. Is in the process, adopting. That standard. Just like today. In the telco world, everybody's. Moving to 5g, for example, right there's a certain, certain sense of. Of. A technology, standard, so between, world. Wide web between. ITU. Between. These global. ISO standards. There's. There's. Best accessibility, center just like privacy, standard, and the security, standards, that, are coming. Together so. Again. Google. As a leader in this kind, of a technology, you all actually, have. The capability, to, be a leader in terms of for example maybe, using, your artificial intelligence. Capability. To, integrate. All these elements. Into. Into. Maybe a AiAi, base tool to to lessen the burden of developers. Does. That make sense. So. That's to, some degree, also. The. What. What I mean by. Authentic. Inclusion, framework, that is. Inclusion. Should not just be a buzzword, or a statement. Or an idea, you. Can and you should have, organization. Constructs. Such as. You. Know design, criteria. Such. As development. Standards. Such. As testing. Protocols. Another thing that I don't know whether Google, does or not but if you don't I highly, recommend, it is that. You, actually have people with. For. Example cognitive. Challenge. Or vision, challenge, as part, of your testing, team, nothing. Like a real user, that. Will humble, you and also. Give you potentially, out of the box of thinking and, also. A solution. Like. I mentioned, I was seen in China in March.
China. Actually just, started the accessibility. Journey. Less. Than 10 years ago so. At that time I actually helped, translate, Chinese, the. The word accessibility into. Chinese because Chinese nature is my native language, so. Ten years ago you're. Looking at a country did not even have the word accessibility. Ten. Years now. When I went back in, March. It. Was. A forum. Sharing, best practices. From. Baidu. Tenzin. Alibaba. And, the. Most impressive, and. Financial. Anybody heard and financial. And. The financial, is, part. Of Alibaba, everybody know Alibaba. Okay. So. In financial. Think of it as Adi. Everybody, know Adi pay Adi. Pay is equivalent to Apple pay right, so, Alibaba, has created. This entire ecommerce. Platform, with. A payment system and and. Financial. Is their mobile. FinTech. Platform. So. If. You google if. You google and, financial. They're in the press every, day, some people would. Be saying some FinTech, you know FinTech financial, technologies. Going to huge, huge. Transformation. A lot of banks. You know are actually worried, about their existence ten years from now right because you got all the disruptors, new. Type of FinTech. Company's coming in so. End. Financial, actually. Had. When. They announced, their mobile. AdWords was in it is inaccessible. So. Somebody, complained. Does a social media network is very very strong in China as well because everybody has a mobile phone so. What happened, was, that. Kind of a went viral so, what did n do in the financial, do they immediately, hired. A. Team. Of person, with disabilities. Blindness. Aging. And all, that and made, them a permanent part of their design team, and also. Their testing, team, now. Again. In China they don't have any laws they don't have a DA they don't they don't have anything to say you must do this but, as a company, I mean China. Right now is so consumer, driven is unbelievable. Talk about. Focus. On customer, experience so. The best practice that was shared, by.
And Financial, is the, entire, what we call the customer journey. End. To end and how, they are embedding. User. Experience. In this case particularly, aging. People disability. Into, the entire process and I remember, sitting on stage because, remember I was the only outside, corn Co expert, and when. I was listening, to them like oh my god they are like not, only they get it they are actually. Surpassing. Frankly, a lot of the companies doing here in the United States so. The reason I'm sharing this with you is because. This. Is not your father's, accessibility. Topic anymore this is not about just making compliance. Making a da you. Know so, Google. Can, can. Can be a a less, a federal, government contractor, that's. Me minimum. I'm. Here to talk to you about this. Is if you believe that everybody, is going to use technology, you. Know like mobile, phone as part, of their living as. Part. Of their working as, part. Of their playing it's. Every. Single activity, that human. Is going to involve technology, then. You must think of accessibility, as part, of that experience. Because. Ultimately. Accessibility. Is about extreme. Personalization. It's. Not that that person, is disabled, it's just my. Eyesight, is not that good especially. When. I'm driving you're not supposed to look, at your phone. But, you still have emailed and things coming in at that, point I will like my screen. Voiceover. - come on just talk to me right, so this is becoming, think, of it as a personal, preference, again. Put the human, first thinking, cap. On and, don't. Think of this as meetings, on minimum, you, know compliance. But think about how. Can I make my product, my services. How can I make the company, Google, to. Be the human first. Company. That, I think about a human experience, and then, I build you know things. Around. That human, experience I build, it for the human experience, and that, is to me a true leaders. Action. And if, you do so then. All the other things including. Inclusion. Will. Come about naturally organically. Then. You're not going out to hire a woman, because you're supposed to hire woman you're not out hiring, a blind. Person because you suppose a hire person, disability, and so, on and so forth because. What. You believe fundamentally then, is that. Technology. Is here to stay not only here to stay technology. Is going to be an integral, part of every human, existence. I mean. We didn't talk about AI, artificial, intelligence and, all that. But. If you start carry, on you know do extrapolation. Where the technology's going it's. Going to be everything. We do and everything we think. What's. That I have the opportunity, to be. At. The conference in San Paulo Brazil, with, then serve, your. Own, right. Then and I were talking, about Java the future. He. Certainly. Man. Invented, to Internet so he talked about how, he view.
Y'all. No Vince vision. Now is this. People. Centered, Internet. Right. So. Internet, for. His perspective, has kind of gone away from the original, purpose of serving people too so, he's. Having this PCI people, Center internet kind. Of vision. And, I'm, coming in from. My my. Kind, of a. Traumatic. Operational. Experience. In, managing. IBM's. Accessibility. Organization. And seeing. How. By. Thinking. Human first and by people having, diversity. On my team and also, throughout the IBM. Design team IBM, development, team how, they actually differentiated. Us as a company in terms of product and services, and most importantly, a culture. Right. It's because, I would I would tell you that I would. Say the last point I want to make is that. One. Of the things I always when, I when I was, on. That on that day and we're sharing is that, everybody. In the technology, business is about innovation we, all know that if you don't have innovation, you die I mean. It's just fact. Facts. Of life right, so, how do you make sure you have continuous. Innovation. That's. Transformative. That's, disruptive. Right. And. If, you look at a history, of a company right now IBM, I think is the only company, has over a hundred years of reinventing, itself then. You pew back you say what is the secret sauce what is the thing that's. Make, this. Company, at least so far sustained. You. Know wave and wave of, innovation. Fundamentally. Is this, believe in diversity, so. Google. You, are in. The, tech. World. The. Undisputed, leader, and, so. Therefore as a company. Actually. Google. Along with you know. Microsoft. And Apple, all the technology, company we owe, it to the world frankly, to, kind of not, only, promote. But, deliver, some. Of the fundamental. Promise. Of. Technology. Which is. Technologies. Supposed, to equalize. Access. Technologies. Supposed to create a democracy. And. Technology, should have a purpose and that's. What, we. All have as an opportunity. In front of us and that's. Why when Sarah told me that I that. There you know there's an opportunity to speak at Google I jump, at it right away because, I, sincerely. Believe that in. This, particular timing, our history, if. You look around, whether. The, political system, economic, system. Societal. System everything. Seems to be in upheaval and we. Technologists. Have. A responsibility. Use. What we know on a day-to-day basis, to better this world and one, of the way to better, the world is to. Make sure that we're not just doing technology for technology's, sake but, always keep, humans, first, as, part of your thinking so with, that I, don't. Know whether we, still have about 10 minutes we still can take one or two questions. We. Can do the carry all the way, how. Do you think about technologies, that are. Sort. Of by their very nature less. Accessible, so I'm thinking of things like AR and VR which is very visual or. Like. Voice. The. Voice assistance which obviously wouldn't work very well for people with hearing impairment, things. Like that I I. Personally. Think that.
There. Will be. There. Will be a convergence, of a different technology coming together to, multimodal, kind of experience. And. It's. It's not to say for a specific, function that. You. Let's. Say is it's a vr is a completely, visual right. But even that you. Can use for example. Machine, learning or artificial intelligence, to interpret, the scene. For. The person who cannot see so, one of the for example one. Of the biggest piece. Of work, Disney, is working, on is. Used. To be that when you go see a movie if. You're blind you can obviously, you cannot see right so, they have audio, description. Of the, scene so. If, you. Done enough of audio, description of, scenery. One. Can imagine that, can be captured, right, you can you can digitize that and, that, you begin to be developing. A repository and, that's. So that even as you develop, the virtual reality, can either games experience and whatever you. Can still, have, voice you. Know. Over. So. You can, use, the technologies. Kind. Of efficiency. Cost. Effectiveness, factor. To, begin to integrate. Multiple. Multiple. Technology. Together so. In, the, beginning it, could be a single threat but I think if you, design, and thinking that you want to be pervasively. Accessible. Then. You may start engaging, other technology. To to complement, that, does. That make sense yep. Okay. I want to thank, Francis, for this very, insightful, and inspiring presentation. You.