Evolution Of Mavic Bike Hubs

Evolution Of Mavic Bike Hubs

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Okay so if I just hold this wheel up I'm sure the many of you will, be able to observe the fact is a maverick will, maverick. Of course is a name as synonymous, with cycling, its iconic, black and yellow branding, has been everywhere. Throughout the sport now. Though these days maverick actually make excellent cycling, shoes helmets, and even pedals, what, they really don't their fame for has been one of the longest standing wheel, manufacturers. In cycling. Now. Over the years maverick, is engineered, and pioneered, some amazing, technology on their, wheels and their rims including. SUV. Technology, ceramic. Coated, rims and of course the world-famous UST. Chiller, system now, SGP rims really, were a game changer as far as rim technology. Goes now. Traditionally, rims are pinned together and occasionally they'd be welded together and you'd, be left with a wheel there's perfectly good all the way around except, for the joint and you can have a bit of hop in a cab its side to side either. Way it didn't feel very good if you're braking with a rim brake back in a day or if you're a mechanic having, to lace those wheels up in the first place now. SGP technology. Changed, that completely by. Welding the rim together and then machining, that weld down leaving, a perfectly. Smooth and precise. Rim now. This was fantastic if, you had rim brakes this particular rim is a three to one so, this is one of the early downhill rooms designed for disc brakes there's also a 5 to 1 which was the rim brake version, which had a slightly deeper sidewall, and these, were SUV technology, rims now. I had an absolutely, perfect braking, surface and they were renowned, has been excellent, rims to lace up because they were so straight, to, start with now although this particular rim doesn't, have it they, had a one to one rim, which had a ceramic, coating on it now, a ceramic, coating in those days was amazing, for for two purposes in particular, on mountain, bikes now, the first one was the fact that it was quite a coarse coating, to actually adhere to brake pads really, really well and really basically.

It Gave you extreme. Braking, power well, as extreme as you could get with cantilevers, and v brace and those earlier days but. The other thing also did was give a surface, onto the outside of the rim it, would resist wear now, if you think a braking, on, a rim by today's standards has to be a mad you're, actually wearing out the structure, of the rim as you're breaking so, to actually enhance that, and basically make it a stronger rim in the first place this is what the ceramic-coated did, and it, was actually in fantastic, although it was quite expensive, now, of course there is the ust technology, as well UST. Stands for universal, standard, tubeless now, this was something that maverick, being a French company teamed, up with Hutchinson, and Michelin also. French companies but specializing, in rubber and they, teamed up together to make a universal, tubeless, standard, and this, is absolutely. Crucial at the time because there wasn't really anything like in it needed a wheel, manufacturer, to work in conjunction with a tire manufacturer, to do this so. Not only did, they design and pioneer, the valve core system, for inflating the rim I got, the rim bed system where's the sealed rim bed so there's no way of air getting through to where the spoke nipples penetrate, that and of, course the, hook technology, for getting that tire on there in the first place now, the reason for working directly with Hutchinson, and Michelin was, the fact that they could develop tires to, work specifically. With rims, like this and those tires obviously, had to be able to hold an air pressure in there regardless, of the sealant that was going into there to, create a completely. Toothless, system, now, UST, you've seen she was going everywhere but this is where it started and I think it's one of the most important, things that any suction company has done but, it's not just rims that navikev, been refining all these years they've, actually been making hubs since. 1975. Being. A hub manufacturer and a rim manufacturer, it wasn't gonna take him too long before they started wheeling out what they call the global system so complete. And optimized, wheel packages, that, first started in 1994. With the cosmic, range. Of wheels has two road wheels and then followed later in 1996. With, the cross mags series, of wheels of course this, is one of the later sets of cross max wheels today, though we're actually just gonna be looking at hubs because, it's such an important, part of the wheel so, let's go back to the very beginning, in fact in 1975. Where the Mavic 500. Hubs, came onto the scene now they might look pretty simple, to you but actually these house worked, a lot better than many hubs. Often, a decade, later, than, these now. In, this sort of era these, whole hubs tended, to be cup and cone design. Now. One of the problems with cup and cone bearings is it if you over tighten them you strain the bearing there you can pick the bearing surfaces, if you ride them loose it does the same and of course they, have additional friction if you ride them looser and the bearing surfaces get damaged or if you write them tight and, the same thing happens when I get pitted you get bumpy bearing surface now, another downside of the traditional, cup and cone bearing system is that they would loosen, slightly. As you wrote, now this depending, on how often you rode and the sort of surfaces, you rode on could be a ride or it could be several, rides now coupling kind bearings worked very, well provided. You. Like, to maintain your bike now it's not something that everyone likes to do and it's not something that everyone is good at doing and, mavet quickly identified. This so, actually, in these particular hubs, even, from 1975. They had sealed radial, bearings in them now something that's especially good, about maverick using, this sealed roller bearings are that, one of the weaknesses of, traditional.

Cup And cones or I put a slight, angular, force onto the bearings and she pre-loaded, them which, actually could prematurely, wear those bearings the, sealed radial bearings don't actually have that problem and they are immensely, smooth. Really. Really quite ahead of their time actually but, something else you're going to notice about this is how, different it is to a modern, mountain, bike hub so if I just take this one off a d-max wheel here look, at the difference not, just talking about the size but the layout the, help you see this one has a screw on style fitting here whereas this one has a much more familiar Shimano. Style pattern where, the cassette would slide on and screw on to the end there, now. The screw on system there wasn't any moving parts in the hub the hub simply. Had bearings. And seals and an axle no problem at all the, bearings however were separately, under the flanges there wasn't a bearing an outboard one at the end here so the hub could suffer, from strain there and also if there was flex that can create friction and, the bearing in a hub which of course will. Wear it out prematurely, caused. Additional friction none, of that stuff is any good now unlike the traditional cassettes, you see these days are literally slide onto the hub and held on the lock ring or in the SRAM case they push on and screw on these. Ones a little bit different they had a separate. Freehub body in fact just. Going to show you they have a. Separate. Freewheel, system, and these things weighed a ton compared, to what, you see nowadays because they've, got bearings, and pools inside. Here so. This would screw on to the hub itself, is, threaded, on the inside and it's threaded, there now. These. Things worked quite well. But. They weren't prone to problems I had quite a lot of friction in them due, to the amount of stuff there is going on in the inside of here you're very restricted. In how smaller. Smaller sprocket you can go for so, to compensate, for that the bikes using these tended, to have much bigger, chain rings up front to give you a big, gear range of course when it comes to mountain biking you want a smaller champion for the ground clearance, and you want a smaller small gear and a bigger big gear help back now. There's a quite limiting, and the way that could be designed and of course there, was flaws in the hub system as well because it wasn't supported, as well, it wasn't uncommon in these, days no matter what brand you're running to see these are hubs the axles bending and sometimes braking due to the additional strain the mountain biking would put to them I mean these particular ones are the road hubs but they did do a mountain, bike version, of them I just, want to show you the difference between the, fitting, on an old-style, screw, on what they called a block and a, new star cassette, where it slides on so as I've just explained, you have the simple scroll system that is all in one when it wears out you replace it and that, also has the poles inside. There now. With the system. You're far more familiar with you, have a cassette which is often in multiple. Pieces and it, simply slides. On or. Just find me the, biggest slots, here, there's. This one I. Simply. Slide on all, the pieces slide on and then they're held onto the end with. A lock. Ring it's, a nice simple system, the, mechanism, is actually on the inside here, this part of the hub can be removed there will be two, bearings in here and it'll be bearing supporting axle, so, the whole system gives much more support, it's, a much better system, especially. For, mountain biking but of course road, bikes also, use this system now, now the cassette hub there's, so much of it it's just so much better there's four, bearings in there in general so, much more support a lot more durability, that, better sealed, and much. Much, stronger, so, when it came to designing cassette. Star hubs like these mafic, were pretty radical. Even from that off and, I had a lot of 1000v in the hub's that other people hadn't, even considered using. Now, this particular hub you can look here you can see the dry side flange is a lot bigger than the non-drive side flange, and the reason, for that is it can accept shorter, spokes which means is stronger and stiffer now. They're also geared up for different lacing, pattern now, mavet used their own trade my cycle, spokes which was their own trademarked, alloy now, they were huge, flat spokes they're very light but also very, strong, one of the benefits of using a spokes especially, in the radial, pattern as, seen on this particular lab was they can get a spot line really, close to the cassette without fouling it of course the wider the, bracing angle is of course means, for a stronger and more tension tuile, on the, non-drive side they, tended to use to cross so if I just show you this on a prebuilt, wheel here so this is cross.

Max Enduro and as you can see here on the drive side it's, got that bigger flange with the radial. Spokes and then, on the non-drive side slightly. Different to cross spokes on here now as well as having fairly, radical spokes, options, that their own Brad spokes there and of, course doing to cross and radial, patterns, it, was the number of spokes that free to people out to now, this particular wheel is a rear wheel and it, has only 20, spokes, on it and you think a normal, spoke, to mount apart we were back in those days would have had 32, or even 36, spokes. Which could be stainless steel as well these were all away so really, really advanced. Stuff there, now, there's, a whole bunch of other things that they had where other hub manufacturers, were offering quick-release or bolt through or twenty mill or this call that Mavic. Were very quick to have adaptive. Systems, that you could change to seat 135, to 140 s and everything. Else so it's a really adaptable, system. Which of course is. Much, better for the end user now, also having, used to have sealed, bearings, in all of their hubs, so you, had no issues, with that sort of stuff in there and they never suffered, because, their radial bearings from having any angular, load to them that you could get in someone's, cup and cone systems, now. In the, early days their hubs you would adjust the, preload on them but they learnt that whilst that worked excellently. It. Could be over adjusted. You could tighten, too much likewise. There could be ridden when they were loose so. The later hubs came, with what's called the cure S auto preload. System, now this sister is fantastic, because it means that bearing is that the optimum. Preload at all time so you're not going to wear the bearing through anything other than just old age really it's a really really good system now, as far as the internals. Of the hub's go Mavic, have always had their i TS system, which is instant, transfer, system, now. In the past they've had to pull systems, but, i want to show you that i TS four which is the most recent, incarnation of that and that's as featured. Inside this particular hub, here now. It's a very simple. And effective system. We have four, pulls on Springs, here now they're staggered so. It means that there's always two, engaged, at every time it's not a case of none. Engaged and then all engaged as they spring around and simply. Put these just engage into a ratchet, this on the inside, of the hub that is simply a seal there to keep, all the grime now it's, a very simple, and effective system however, this system is excellent, as it is does, need maintenance on it because. Of the fact that the poles are on Springs, over time those, springs do need replacing because they can get a bit baggy and not actually, do their job as well as I should do with pushing the spring into, the ratchet, there and of, course if you were to put a thick grease or something in there they could slip but. Generally, it's a really really good system and this is the most refined, version, of that with those staggered, pulls so, I'm just going to pull this hub apart, here so you can see the, insider I loosened this earlier it's not normally this is just. So you can see take the end cap off and. Then. Just with a gentle pull, you, can see it's the same as this one and then. If I just. Release. It. Yeah, for me you, can see it's the same again, and, you can see on the inside here, where. Those pull sit into that ratchet and. Allow. It to freewheel, or engage, that hub it's. A pretty good system is, always worked, really effectively, but that with, the two always, engaged is far more reliable than earlier systems the, key for any sort of intricate, machinery like this is, the fact that has to be cleaned and well, lubricated, in, order to work reliably, all the time of, course we're not all like that and that's Mavic new from the hub days when, they started using cartridge, bearings instead, of using cup. And cone bearings people, don't want to be maintaining, their bikes all the time so. This, CUDA CICS force system is and, it still does work very well, Mavic, we're interested, in developing a new system that didn't have to rely on people looking after it as much now, as we know mavica. Masters, refining. Their products throughout the entire range and this, is the latest version, of their hub so, on the inside of this hub a little bit different from the old star i TS 4 system is the brand new ID 360. I D, stands, for instant, drive and this is all new, now, Mavic have actually, been developing, the ID 360. System since, 2013. And. It's, been used on our skinny wheeled road bike friends bikes since. 2016. And now has finally, been, adapted. And ready for mountain, bike use unlike. The DT system which has the two batches and twin, Springs, maverick. System it just has a single spring, so, let's have a look at it okay so this is the freehub body listen.

To This. Almost. Instant. Engagement is 40 points, of engagement, on this there's, just nine degrees between. Them that's, such. A fast pickup, now. I'm just going to release the spring this so you can see how, this works on the inside here and it. Take this apart so, you have the partner sits into, the hub with one set of the ratchet rings on it you, know the other ratchet ring that, rotates. Against, it you. Have the spring this is on inside the for your body it's. That simple, and it's, going to show you this on the inside a hub just like I did with the other one it's, going to pull this and plug off and, literally pull. This apart. Here, we go there's the spring here's, the ratchet and there's the other one on the inside of the hub they're very, simple, system, as, you can see the ratchet is pushed away from the hub allowing it to freewheel, and when. You go the other way it engages now I've also got this really cool, cutaway, hub here so you can see the axle you can see the bearings, if, you look closely you can see these ratchets, and as I rotate this you'll, see it engaging with that single spring, just. Making it coming to use there very, cool okay. So let's look at the fundamentals, of this ID 360. System so. Of course there's 40, points, of engagement, it's positive, engagement it's basically always ready, to be engaged no chance of slippage, there it's. 9 degrees of, rotation. Between the, engagement which is tiny, however. It's not too small so the bearings, on the inside, obviously they're premium, bearings, and I don't have any angular, sort of load concerns. To them and also know how outboard, those bearings, are of course because the ratchet mechanism the, inner, one is slightly on the inside here the outboard, one here is very very, close to the outside here and again, on the initial free hub part of the body there you, might also notice that system, has an oversized, hub now most people tend, to have a 15, millimeter, axle, in their hubs but, Mavic with the ID 360. System have a 17, millimeter axle. Now. 2, millimeters, might not sound a lot to you but it makes a significant. Difference and. We've got a thing is with all of those twisting, forces that go into bikes especially to. Date with the way they've ridden I'm talking enduro bikes trail bikes jump bikes downhill, bikes all of that stuff when, you're throwing those bikes into turns everything, is twisting, and as soon as they're twisting, Affleck's in something like a wheel axle, that's, going to create a load on bearings, and other parts, that is not good now. This system has been designed to cope with all of the stresses of modern day bikes and to. The particular things that, are included in that or ebikes. Of course they put a significant, amount of strain and talk through, a rear axle like this this actual laughs had it no problem with that also another thing to bring up is the enormous, 51. Tooth teeth. The sprockets, you get on some, really cassettes these days are they / significance. Or load into. A hub and again, with this system combined. With, that ratchet it's. No problem at all you're never going to slip and that, axle, can handle the strain now, what I can feel here that you're gonna have to just listen to is a really, really nice crispness. Now. There's actually 50%, more torsional, rigidity in, this system than, a conventional ITES, for pull based system so you've only got to think how efficient, that's going to be under power now, also there's the noise thing to take into consideration, obviously with, it outside of the hub. That. Is extremely. Loud, and extremely, positive, you, know that that is in. But. With the cutaway, system, here. It's. Far more muted, and then with the actual hub itself, where. It's completely sealed in it's. Actually quite discreet. It's definitely crisp, enough to know you're, in the whole time, but it's not too distracting on the ride I actually, really, like the fact is not super, loud I've, been quite liking, the quiet bike thing of late, and start to see it more and more of course clutch to raelians and stuff it's all about making your bike as quiet as possible, and. That's when I think it's going to start reducing noise, but obviously there's no chance of slipping, or anything it's. A really really good positive system, there's, also a severe, lack of.

Friction In this normally. The only friction you would feel on this whole star system would, be the, actual ratchet, itself and in the seal but the seal is a non-contact, seal. So you don't feel that any way and the only thing you feel is literally, the ratchet against yourself which I can tell you is very reassuring, now, that about summarizes. The hub also about, 40, grams lightest, and not only does, it outperform. Their. Old and a more conventional RTS, 4 system but it is a slight bit lighter now, something else I just found out about these obviously, Maverick is a French company they hail from annecy in, the French Alps there and actually, make their, hubs in Europe, which is quite nice now, it still looks like a modern wheel to me and I know how well these ride because this is actually one of my personal. Wheels from another bike but. I find it quite amazing, that Mavic in particular the, way they'd like to refine, their products, through time like this is still great up to they still works but, the latest one if I just show you that X a 35, carbon. The pro will this, is the latest one and this of course has, got that ID 360. Hub on, there it's. Got to cross designed, on both. Sides 24, spokes it's got the carbon, rims on here which is set for anything from 2.5. Up to 3.2, inch tires, nice, stable, support this UST, as you'd expect, as, with the newer wheels, from mavica spotted WTS, systems there's a wheel tire systems, that a whole lot with tires involved. In the formula there too I think. It's really impressive that the fact that they. Don't just sit on the fact that this stuff is excellent, worse they're always looking to refine, and make, stuff better the longevity of, stuff, now. Something I haven't mentioned yet but I really. Really like about this, new ID 360. System is, that this is going to appear on automatic. Wheel soon so. It's already out there in the wild on some of their wheels but I think the point I want to make is that on some manufactures. Wheels you will see the pool system be continued to use on maybe slightly, more budget, wheels and they'll use a ratchet system on a slightly more expensive wheels. Whereas, I love, the fact that Mavic they, totally believe in where they're going with the ratchet system and that it's going to be on all wheels so, whether you're riding, a 200 dollar set wheels were $2,000, set of wheels you're going to get the same performance the, same longevity, and the same technology, in there so, you go that was a little story about maverick the French wheel manufacture, I hope you, liked the little story there as always, click on the round globe to subscribe, to Jam bein tech we love having you guys around and if. You give this video a thumbs up which I hope you all don't forget to hit the bell feature as well because, it gives you a little notification every time we post a rad video as always. Give us a thumbs up guys.

2018-08-12 06:24

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Comments:

How cool are Mavic's new hubs? What do you think of their new design?

Finally a rear hub that does take too much play!? Mavic deemax pro just got back at the top of my dream wheelset! :)

its the axle of the hub, not the through axle.

Nice engagement for sure. Shimano's new Scylence hub has a very similar design except it completely disengages during freewheel. I imagine you sacrifice some engagement speed for that silence. I'd like to see how it compares to Mavics hubs here.

Hey Chris Morris, Doddy is talking about the hub axle, which is different to the thru-axle that bolts the wheel to the frame.

I've had my 29er Crossmax st rims since 2013 and absolutely love them and the performance. However maintaining and parts availability can be an issue. Absolutely love the new design and might see if they are available for my 2013 Giant XTC. My son also runs Mavic rims, he has the crossride's and they are bomb proof. He's cased them on curbs and rides beyond what a cross country bike should do and the rims have stayed true and keep going. Pretty amazing for entry level rims!

That's an old design. Chris King hubs have had a similar and even better design for about as long as they have been around. This is nothing new.

Nice

They look good, can't help thinking the ratchet faces may fuse together (especially at very low temps) I still run some 500's on a single speed and they are buttery smooth still.

GMBN Tech hey Doddy great video but unless I'm mistaken most rockshox and fox forks and most frames axles are either 15mm or 12mm so would we have to wait for the manufacturers to catch up or does it need a conversion system? How do you use it on your bike?

I like the new look a little more stealth that the bright yellow but they still dont look as good as my i9 hubs ;)

New design is super cool. Long time fan of Mavic. Glad to see the DT Hügi ratchet system is spreading to other brands (besides DT Swiss). - Wonder if their patent has run out?

You forget to write mavic’s new hubs SYSTEM.

Obviousley simular to the DT Swiss, but isn't that what's Shimano is also doing a version of?

They look awesome, I loved the Mavic crossride disc's I had on my old bike I wish I'd never sold them when I broke my bike down. They were the smoothest wheels I'd ever owned.

Looks just like DT Swiss design. If you want to look at something ahead of its time, take a look at onyx and stealth hubs.

It now looks like DT Swiss Hub =) with that sayed... DT Swiss is making a brilliant Job =P only 51 tooth? my one has 54 tooth. And just by the way... i modded mine and make them slightly louder. It is the Only one Video on my "Channel"

Mavic's new design looks awesome. Also, more of these 'history of tech' style videos, please!

Do a video on Pawl Service? I did mine and had trouble reinstalling my spring ring (only a couple of my pawls seemed to be working correctly)

How much does the new wheeler cost?

'SUP technology' makes me laugh. Welding then machining down the join isn't a technology, its just how it should be done. I used SUP technology on an old Mini i welded up, there you go!

How come 9° is fast engagement?

My favorite part is when doddy casually puts the rim over his head

Got a pair of crossrocs and I love them!

nice to catch up with the newer hubs, that clutch mechanism is almost identical to my very early 90's DT hugi, they were also especially loud, especially with a tight set of spokes in a noisy aluminium Merlin malt 2.

no substitute for mavic wheels

I had some mavic crossmax enduro wheels. The spokes snap all the time. Moved to some Chris kings laced to dt swiss which were a huge improvement

Umm that sounds like a new sponsor

with 221 roll 5 years,521 roll 10years my weight is 124kg.....dt alpine 3 spokes xtr hub....,

17:35 Do a 51 tooth sprocket really put more load on the hub? I know that the torque increase with diameter, but i would still expect the same power at a smaller sprocket would be just as bad.

Doddy, that was extremely interesting!!

New series. "Story time with doddy"

Mavic ....chain reaction..... longest advert I’ve ever watched..

Fascinating video again. Thanks Doddie

aside from the infomercial, aluminum spokes is just crazy.

Exelente clip and great quality product.. Love Mavic

Interesting. So the new "Instant Drive" design is identical to DT's Star Ratchet system? Did they license the technology from DT or did something expire and this design will be more prolific?

Doddy, you're great But please don't do the weird-faces-in-thumbnail thing. It just doesn't work

Hope use 17mm axles... i like Mavic's rims but their hubs are not anything extraordinary.

So the new design is the same freehub principle as DT hubs, a less good setup than Chris King (By using a helical gear to load the ratchet washer, the more torque that is applied to a Chris King the harder it squeezes the toothed washers together, reducing the chance of skipping) and with only slightly more than half as many engagements as the Chris King. The serious downside to all the toothed washer type hubs is that contamination between the washers will stop all the washer teeth from engaging correctly, rather than blocking one pawl in the case of the same contamination in a normal ratchet system. This means sealing is absolutely critical for it to be trustworthy. Mavic have been in the business long enough to do a decent job with this hopefully, but then again my experience of tubeless, having set it up with the XM819 when that came out first and with an XT wheelset recently, is that it wastes a lot more of my time than tubes (10 minutes every 2 or 3 months for a puncture that there's no guarantee wouldn't have happened the tubeless tyre anyway vs. pumping the tyres every couple of days just to keep them at the right pressure), and I they seem to have completely dropped off the radar in terms of rim choices these days. Pushing the misconception that radial cartridge bearings are a good solution for bike hubs has kept many a hub manufacturer in business, but radial bearings are not designed to take thrust loads, or to be run misaligned, which happens all the time when they're used in bike hubs because the wheels don't always get loaded radially only, in fact the shitty chainlines on 1x drivetrains are creating more side loading through the freehub than ever before, and the hubs and frames aren't stiff enough to stop flex misaligning the bearings under bump and pedalling loads. If the Mavics are reliable it's because they're using deep groove or angular contact bearings that have been engineered by Mavic to take the side loads and misalignment. Cup and cone bearings are much more tolerant of all the flexing and side loading seen by hubs - the downside is Shimano XTR is the only cup and cone hub using good enough materials and sealing to demonstrate this. A half minded XTR will outlast just about any cartridge bearing hub and consume no spares at all. Unfortunately even XT is total junk by comparison with XTR. I get about 6 months from an XT freehub body, but the hub is much improved by putting XTR bearings in while replacing the freehub - I've never needed to replace an XTR freehub body in 15+ years of running them. If you keep the bearings adjusted (And even if you do a few spins with it rattly) the XTR hubs I've used still run smoothly and engage reliably 10 years of muddy spins and little maintenance later. Not sure I trust the new silent clutch hub based on Shimano's previous and silent clutch setups and the sponginess of the Alfine 11 speed hub though. I also hope they're not running a rattly, unreplaceable bushing at the base of the freehub body like they used to in the old Crossmaxes leading to the wheels getting binned even after the rest of the bearings were replaced thanks the the pawls, ratchet and hub body getting chewed from misaligning with the ratchet thanks to the slop in the bushing. It's hard to see what's what in the shots looking into the freehub, but it looks like bearings at both ends.

Lol, Dt swiss ,and chrisking have been using Ratchet for years, how is this revolutionary ?

I hope hub manufacturers don't all head down the route of trying to make the hubs as quiet as possible I still really like a good loud hub, I know its not everyones cup of tea but at speed down a trail I absolutely love it not to mention the Chris King hub sound.

Why on earth has no one come up with that hub idea before?! So simple, so logical, looks effective and so easily serviceable!

One question, how did Mavic fit a tiny machine gun in the hub (14:50)?

Doddy you are a true geek :) I would like to listen dt-swiss’ story too

Will you be doing tech history on DT swiss rims, spokes, hubs and wheelset?

Doddy looked like he needed a shower after that.

MAKE a VIDEO of LEFTY HUB DIFFERENCES ??? LEFTY 50 , lefty 60 , lefty hub 75 also lefty fork 2.0 or super max !!!!!!!!!!!!

Ads these days...

yep, made me laugh... like when you said not to use grease on the pawls. I know from experience that they may not allow pawls to pop back up and engage in time before cranks have rotated enough to send you into the handle bars. I was 19 and on my bmx cross country blike (huffy pro lightning) ...good stuff.

Great video guys, I found that really interesting

still running old Ksyriums, still like new

Now I know how cool the Mavic wheels are on my Capra lol.

The bike industry admits DT star ratchet is the best. nice looking wheels.

Are you going to turn this into a series Doddy? Would be cool to find out the evolution of other companies for different parts ok the bike. Maybe you could talk about brakes next.

Not a bad idea! Thanks for the suggestion.

Plz stop with the weird faces in the thumbnails. But loving the content!

What do you mean people don’t like to maintain their bikes all of the time? Good vid Doody and I still have some of the original Mavic hubs on my 1990 Kestrel CSX. Thanks

Could you please compare mavik hubs to the hope ones?!

Mavic is good, hope is shit... It's easy

Debate: dont do cup n cone handle lateral stress better than sealed? Shimano claims that and still uses cups in highest end hubs

Now this is an infomertial I cant complain about!

companies from long ago did this process like alesa mavic etc

Thank you Doddy, very informative and thanks for assembling all of the hub examples, Even I could understand what you were talking about! Ride on! Tim

These videos are starting to sound like ads for whatever company is sponsoring the video. "This is better than other stuff on the market and it's better than what we had before." The giveaways and whatnot are also a bit excessive. Whatever happened to unsponsored content?

We have plenty of non-sponsored content coming out every week.

I really like doddy when he's explaining the techy stuff.

No problem!

hope they bring back steel freehub body.

9° engagement is honestly pretty horrible for a high end hub, especially since competitors are coming out with like 4° engagement

This is a great advert for Mavic, but I'll still be very unlikely to buy one of their wheels. Oversize and proprietary spokes and nipples, and a very low access to the products needed to keep these going will keep me on DT for a long time to come. While their engineering might be sound, I can not get past having to wait for a bike shop to order in an expensive spoke, when I can have a non proprietary wheel fixed in an hour.

Cool vid...love wheel tech!

Nice story Doddy

I have a Mavic 500 front hub laced to an old campagnolo rim sitting around I didn’t realize they were made in 1975

Can you do the same but with different brands/products?

Dont make this video your drinking came when he say SYSTEM. 54 times

I never realised I was so interested in how hubs work. Great show GMBN, keep it up.

A very good video, how about one on Industry Nine hubs / wheels as they are even more advanced than the Mavics at this present time?

Never a big fan of the driven side radial lacing, nor low spoke count wheel. Does that tiny weight save really makes sense? It's MTB not road bike. Even for road disk, I'm not OK with spoke counter lower than 24 for rear wheel. Furthermore, the namings are mostly marketing bullshit, to make MAVIC products look superior (thus more expensive) even other vendors are using the same tech. And for the so-called ID 360, come on, that's just the same as DT swiss ratchet system (with one less spring), and DT swiss has used it for a long long long time (and has 56 engagment option than the poor 40 from Mavic). And Shimano is pushing its XTR hub which is compeltely silent when coasting. For road, Mavic are the latest vendor going into wider rim, competitors are already moving to 18mm or even 20~22mm internal width road wheels, Mavic just got 17mm. Even DT Swiss' road wheels are moving to wider rims before Mavic. In short, Mavic may have brought good products, but nowadays, it's mostly marketing bullshit with fancy naming but expensive price tag. A lot of competitors are doing better while Mavic is still wrapping their old tech with new marketing names.

That's the problem of MAVIC, it's not pushing the tech boundary of the industry or trying new things. From tech respect, it's too mediocre, not pioneering (at least nowadays) If this video is published in GMBN channel it would be fine. But I was expecting things like gearbox, onyx hub, or Shimano SCYLENCE hub. I totally understand doing AD is necessary to run the channel, but we really needs some more depth into real engineering and innovation.

Thanks for the comment Adam. A lot of the tech that you don't like (radial spoke pattern and fewer spokes) does work though. It's not to say that it's wrong. And the new hub design is new for Mavic, not the industry. That it's similar to DT Swiss is not a bad thing, though the one less spring allows easier maintenance. As for engagement, the 54 points on DT Swiss is their highest option. They also have 18 and 36. It's all a matter of preference, though, and there's nothing wrong with not liking the way certain companies do things.

King's ring drive system has been the best twin plate mechanism for decades.

GMBN Tech that's quite true. They're extremely expensive and I'd imagine not available everywhere. I used to have king hubs on an old bmx race bike years ago and loved them. Haven't managed to afford a king wheel set for the mtb yet but I do plan on it!

Chris King make an excellent product. But they are by no means accessible to many riders.

doctajuice came here to say the same.

Loved my 517's. Cup and cone:what a piain they were.

Great bed time story, uncle Doddy, seriously amazing feature, thank you for the content guys.

This video was fantastic. I love seeing the history of where we came from with biking compared to where we are at now.

Thanks Ryan!

Weird they used radial lacing on the drive side... traditional wheel building knowledge would want 2 or 3 cross to resist the twisting forces of the chain driving the cassette. It's the same reason you don't lace the disc side radially, braking forces would stress a radial pattern to failure. Really the only time raidal is appropriate is front wheels with rim brake or rear wheel's non-drive side with rim brakes.

You are the tech master when it comes to mountain bikes. I swear something I used to know just got pushed out of my brain with all that info. Great tech vid.

#askgmbntech hey doddy I have just bought a 2007 giant glory with a rockshox boxxer race on it for some reason it seems to feel sticky and not very plush and the rear shock is a fox dhx 5.0 and it it feels far too is it just the Bottom-out resistance increased too much. the spring is the right one for me what is the problem please help

why do i find it hilarious to see Doody playing around with my yellow wheels ?!? hahaha !!

I think ive never nerded out so much about bike tech haha

hands down doddy is the best addition to the gmbn channel.

Cool ad bro

Dt Swiss 350 with the 54 engagement upgrade, been winning for years, way to go mavic, taking steps backwards

I'm okay with the Deemax wheelsets, for their retro goodness, their fairly basic rims are acceptable too. Some of the tech they have persevered with has given me an incredible amount of animosity towards them though. Tensioned carbon fibre spokes for road bikes were never a good idea, but they repeatedly tried to convince the public that they could be done, after some product recalls and some serious accidents. Aluminium spokes aren't much better. They never really did prove any benefits to what they had achieved... UST isn't terribly friendly in the workshop for spoke failures, etc. Oh, and they made a few lightweight road rims that were incredibly prone to cracking around the spoke holes. They also flopped with their electronic shifting in the 90's, and derailer manufacturing in general. Last but not least, they're French! Wear a Mavic shirt out on your ride and I may just want to push you off your bike. (I'd buy you a beer afterwards though to explain my actions)

Meh, I like companies that are brave and inovative unlike Shimano that only stopped being lazy after sram came.

I could feel it too if you sent me a set. ;)

@gmbntech mavic also did a cd finish to their rims which was a little less costly than the ceramic.

That new Mavic's system looks pretty much like DT Swiss "Star Ratchet". But I guess it is good to have competition between brands.

Loud Hubs Save Lives...

Awesome video doddy, you explained it so clearly and kept it interesting. Thanks mate

Perfectly smooth my ass

Them freewheels aren't yet dead a lot of people still use them they come standard on most cheap bikes.

I get it but I'm talking about proper bikes, and even though 26 is dead, doesn't mean that they're disappeared completely, same with the freewheel system. Have a good day :)

Tomi Saaranen just because there no longer on all the big fancy expensive bikes doesnt mean there dead its just like when people try saying 26 is dead

Tomi Saaranen dont be a snob

Yes, they are dead.

What do you think of quando hubs

cheap and basic... gets the job done on a department store bike i guess

Thanks, I always learn so much about bikes on GMBN Tech. Keep it up :)

I love your videos and i hope you can make a dedicated video for hub service. Thanks

The ID360 might be better for having less maintenance, but the 40 point engagement (9 degree) isn’t really that good. The ITS-4 system has 48 engagement points which gives it a 7,5 degree engagement. So why decrease ?

@12.24 "that is simply a seal there" hahaha! Working as a bike mechanic I change a lot of those seals every week because they get sticky. As a result of the worn out seal the freehub makes a very loud and awkward noise. These wheels and hubs are no good

The new mavic hubs are Very similar to the dt swiss ratchet system.... I've used shimano xtr hubs, mavic sx its, hope pros, easton m1's, sun ringle chargers but have to say that the dt 240 hubs have been the most robust and reliable of them all!

Mavic = junk

That's not much of a justification to your first statement. No doubt you've had a bad experience, but can you elaborate?

antonio stefan gabriel if you have ever owned a wheel set with mavic hubs....you should know why. They are pure garbage.

why?

To see how the hub works you pawl it apart (ba dum tss)

Spike Spikus Hubba hubba

!!Hey Guys, im here to warn all the DUTCH watchers, watch out for bike seat thiefs... I say Dutch because I'm pretty sure that only Dutch thiefs are stupid/dumb/cancerous enough to steal one (sorry for my language) mine got stolen just now, so be aware!!

Been waiting for this one!!

Excellent video. 15:01 Industry Nine by 3 degree engagement & Onyx sprag clutch hubs beat Mavic and most of the other brands. chosen hubs also use Sprag clutch, they are less known brand. the new Mavic hubs look like they are good stuff. I currently have Hope Pro 4 Enduro wheels, not the greatest engagement, but decent enough to not feel weird. after about 2 years maybe more I feel the springs & bearings on my hope hubs should be changed, not too bad, but I read on mtbr forum that Chris King's hub bearings are angular contact with preload adjustment and that they last long time, I ahven't tried them, I also their hubs got more drag, I got Chris King BB on my xc bike it also got drag, but spins smooth, and the headset is smooth too, so far the smoother headset I have ever experienced, and does not wear as fast I only got one front wheel from Mavic, works well cheap stays true, 26er with 24spokes I think. I also have Notch helmet, but I don't use it cus I got Full Face Helmet now.

Mavic must've been like a Cannondale in their days :D That one company to rule in unconventional and shocking ideas, I love it!

Exactly. And while many people seem to hesitate against the changes, it is so satisfying to own this quirky stuff and show everyone how well it works :D

Kuba Gajda we need those type of guys...just imagine how uninventive would it be if it was all shimano

I don't like mtb crossmax wheels, because of the spokes . They fail often when you go over jumps.... or hard ride...

Clearly prefer Shimano's cup & cone hubs. Easy peasy to adjust and no special replacement parts needed. Not so much into throwaway bearings.

i bought one of mavics cheapest wheelset avaliabe and it came tubeless ready!

I used a bomb proof set of 823s and loved them, but Mavic hubs always felt too proprietary for me

Yeah, good luck sourcing spokes and whatnot for older wheel "systems" too. Proprietary is the enemy of longevity and serviceability

Good content.

doddys got that ice on his wrist

This is an interesting and great video from Mavic hubs and wheels. Thanks a lot.

Mavic actually didn't always have two bearings in the freehub. For years they had a bearing on the outboard side, but an awful plastic bushing on the inner side that would wear down over time and result in play in the cassette. Not only did the bushing wear, but the aluminum part of the hub that it moved against would wear down too so eventually the stock bushings wouldn't work anymore... I don't understand why Mavic didn't just put a second bearing on those freehubs.

Yes, this is the reason why I never bought their wheels - the stupid bushing design. This new DT Swiss ratchet copy looks promising though.

Because Mavic degradated with the whole bicycle market. Thanks to Rohloff, I have to ride somewhat not being a marketing part planned to die in 2-3 years of normal usage.

I had that hub, worst wheel I have ever owned.

They didn't do it properly because they're French. Engineering things differently just to be different.

Very nice. Now do a wheelset giveaway ;)

Hi Doddy, I'm after some tyres that will get me to work and back on the roads buthandle a good offroad shred in the woods at the weekend. What features am I looking for and can you recommend anything? I'm hoping not to have to buy 2 sets of tyres and change them every week, thanks Dave

Are you going to turn this into a series Doddy? Would be cool to find out the evolution of other companies for different parts of the bike. Maybe you could talk about brakes next.

GMBN Tech Please talk about the down side of Mavic hubs, like how proprietary and expensive the spokes are. If you want to own Mavic hubs, stock up on spare spokes otherwise you are waiting 2 to 3 weeks for a special order from Europe.

Maybe because no bike shop stocks their spokes? I had a friend who was forced to buy a whole new wheel on a mtb trip just because one spoke broke and no bike shop in a 50 mile radius had one in stock.

Don't like mavic technologies

Look cool but easy broke

50 tooth cassettes do not put a higher strain on the freehub. You have a 30 or 32 t chainring on the other side, where you had a 22 tooth chainring on the front with 2x systems (and 36 in the rear). It's the gear ration that puts the twist on the ratchet and the chain force that puts the strain on the axle. The larger the chainring pair (for a given ratio), the lower the chain force. The twist (torque) is dependant on the rider and the ratio.

Part where disadvantages of cup and cone hubs described are complete BS. Only disadvantage of cup and cone back in those days was bad seal, wich is fixed nowdays. Best type of bearings for hubs, and absolutely easy to maintain if your arms are straight.

I’ve always loved the look of mavic products and I have an old cross max laying around somewhere, but they need to step up the engagement to something along the lines of 120 POE like the industry 9 torches.

Is it cool to copy DT swiss design? The real inovative hubs are the Onyx sprag clutch hubs or the Shimano Scylence

9 degrees so fast lol project 321 is 1.7degrees

GMBN Tech google mavic noise,you'll have atleast 5 pages of info

Lots of us roadies were seduced, and severely stung by those early Ksyrium wheel sets way back in the early 2000's. Back then the Ksyrium's 1500 gram weight for a pair of wheels was revolutionary.. The rims were absolutely bombproof and those zicral spokes were as tough as old boots.. All was fine and dandy and carefree until one was unfortunate enough to bend or break a rim, then it would become very quickly apparent that Mavic didn't really want anyone attempting to repair their wheel systems...Sure you could buy a Ksyrium rim and a bunch of zicral spokes, but it would cost almost the same as buying a brand new wheel. If one was brave enough to attempt a rim transplant, those FORE spoke inserts had a nasty habit of adhering themselves permanently to the damaged rim. And don't get me started on Mavic's crappy FTTS freehub system.. It freehub body consisted of an inner Delrin/nylon bushing running on the bare aluminium hub surface, it would eventually wear the hub to the point it was unusable. Sorry Mavic, I won't be spending anymore of my discretionary cash of your non-user serviceable products....

Shimano seems not to identify the headache that is doing maintenance to their hubs with the cone system, my patience has increased a lot thanks to them.

They're not all junk, I had 321s and 521s on hope hub's, can't fault them, but the cross max that's a different story the rims are like cheese have a look on eBay for a set, there's normally a front wheel and no rear. I had a look at second hand orange 5 the rear had a massive flat spot, and I have had a couple of sets myself. The spokes seized themselves to the rims and are really expensive..

You must to see Ukrainian TrailMech hub!

Do these new hubs develop play in the freehub body after a few hundred miles? Wouldn't want to lose that signature cassette slop that only Mavics can provide!

mavic hubs have been crap for a long time only now have they copied someone else!

dt swiss !

Nut

I can make the same comment as you guys, look: I (Me) have products from (insert name) manufacturer and it's much better than yours (if different). I make no mistakes, follow me.

I bet you've never tried that noShima product. Just stop. Now get out and enjoy riding whatever you have.

+GMBN Tech I bet you guys can't sleep now because somebody was bitching about something (tipp: If you have Maxxis in the back and Schwalbe up front they die from "can't" death). Great video btw, maybe you should add explosions and wrecked cars in it and always have a guy in white socks saving the Earth.

Everyone we should all get the same products as David, first of all David knows better, never made a mistake, second he won every battle on on iTube tournament sponsored by TD Schwisch... if you are still reading this... man!!!

The video starts with a wrong statement, "with what they are really on the fame for, is being one of the fame for is being one of the longest wheel manufacturers in cycling". WRONG. Mavic was TOP at rim manufacturing. Then they got into wheels... and their hubs sucked. The FTS-L freewheel was an inferior design, relying on a plastic bushing for lightness that would degrade over time, wearing also the aluminium contact part in the hub. Eventually, the play in the freewheel body would affect the rear change, and bobbling would make the two tiny ratchet pawls come out of the housing and destroy the hub. THAT is Mavic rear hub design, that they still use in most of their wheels. Luckily, they have finally decided to COPY a world-class hub manufacturer, DT Swiss... which, by the way, makes also outstanding wheels (great hubs, with SAPIM great steel spokes, nice rims) if you are ok with standard-look, solid and reliable wheels over Mavic's fancy looks and compromised reliability due to absurd marginal weight savings.

Mavic really must revive that old good White n' Black color that they were using in the past for their Crossmax SX. White rims, Black logos, nipples, spokes and hubs. That's way better than the overrated, usual, vise versa coloring, and I wonder why manufactures don't paint the rims in White and the logo in Black. This color would make most of the bikes look way better to be honest, and the yellow does not match with all the other colors that exist.

This host is a gifted technical instructor. I love this side channel only because he is so good.

Really interesting great job!!

Excellent video. Highly informative and interesting. Great job

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omg i tought mavic was a German company 0.0

I love and ride Mavic rims and can't wait for the day I can ride a complete engineered wheelset of theirs. I like how the latest hub engineering mirrors my personal fav which is Chris King and his 72 point engagement ring drive system. When it all comes down to it spending extra money on wheels and tires is just smart money !

Did they do the cosmic wheelset before the helium?

3:34 Wait a second! So asymetrical rims were made even before 2012 ?!! And I didn't even know about them till 2017?!?....Ahh yes, gmbn tech gone live in 2018 ;-p

In this now online world, I feel manic is falling behind with their archaic ways of distribution.

Mavic does own Enve. Good things apparently are osmotically filtering in from the tech depts.

hehe how about the old playing cards in the spokes effect?

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